08 July 2010

08/07/10

Happy Birthday Turminder Xuss!
 
I was always taught to respect my elders and I've now reached the age when I don't have anybody to respect.


-George Burns

258 comments:

  1. I don't know why the font is funky today. I can't get it to look normal, so it's going to stay like this.

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  2. Bonjour Montana, et HB to TX !

    The gregg thread is down at 10.30 BST this am so I'm just having a last look at the article and doing a final comment.
    I'll keep it in 'my all-time favs' for reference, to avoid the CIF Memory Hole phenomenon. That bloody 48hr cutoff is wrong.
    BJ to all !

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  3. @Montana

    Font same as always here in Central Europe.

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  4. Have a happy day turminder

    Montana - your font looks fine from here.

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  5. Belated happy birthday to thauma!

    And a happy birthday to Turminder.

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  6. Thanks MsC, and HB Turm!! May you have as nice a birthday as I did.

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  7. Bonne anniversaire Turminder!

    have just heard something on the radio that could cause an iddlebid / bindel-esque piece - a female economist bemoaning the lack of women on the monetary policy committee, saying that while economics is a male-dominated profession, the men tend to work in macro-econ, which doesn't work, while the women work in micro, which does. thus managing to hit victim status and gender superiority at the same time. sound familiar?

    the female economist then spoken to for a reaction sounded less than impressed.

    sounded like the rules on swearing were preventing her from expressing herself, actually.

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  8. Happy birthday to everyone!

    I'm complete shit at remembering birthdays, so I was delighted I remembered my sister's in time to give her a call on Sunday. And I actually sent her a present that'll only have been two or three days late!

    Age, I suppose. I have more time to remember birthdays and less binge-related memory loss these days. How depressing.

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  9. James - re your query on Kroos and the sticker last night, have found this photo - it looks like it's the logo for the Fifa Football for Hope programme (seeting up grassroots groups / facilities for playing sport throughout Africa). so a nice gesture.

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  10. HB, Turm!
    Philippa, that sounds like a twist on the bullshit blokes sometimes come up with co-opting evolutionary psychology (which despite its pretensions, is not a science, and is full of assertions incapable of being substantiated). Men are hunter-gatherers (rahhrrrr, as we all go for that sbare-toothed tiger) thus always looking at the horizon, looking at the big picture. That of course is why men shouldn't do housework: we aren't equipped to do so, as our faculties are set on bigger, more distant things and so we don't perceive small stuff like dust, or the mound of dishes in the sink. Women as nurturing home-builders yadda-yadda are better kitted out by nature and evolution to take care of such micro-details.
    Mind you the complainant on the radio seems almost to prove her opponents' case: talk about not seeing the wood for the trees.Bit like the blessed (especially in the Guardian) Fawcett society, who actually set back the cause of equality every time they put something out.It's all about fighting for the right of female execs to have the same bells-and-whistles accessory pack for their company Lexus as the blokes, and nowt about the plebs.
    There's also a bloody huge logical flaw in there. You can make some generalisations, in a ludicrously broad-brush,binary fashion about the qualities and talents of each gender,but they are so riddled with exceptions and outliers as to be worthless. What you can't do is then surmise that because an individual or set of individuals are of their particular gender that they have those qualities, desirable or undesirable.

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  11. @Philippa

    Looks a bit more like the Fair Play logo to me, but I could be wrong. Not sinister, either way!

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  12. And happy birthday, TX, naturlich.

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  13. Hi All--Still up.

    Happy birthday Turminder, and many more.

    Paul, yes I originally picked Spain to win it over Brazil, but I am no supporter of theirs. Like many others, here at least, I'd like to see Holland take the cup, but fear the worst. Spain are winning "ugly" by not conceding goals and holding the ball consistently more than opponents. Usually a lethal combination, but who knows? Hup Holland!

    PhilippaB--You like footie and Hunter S Thompson? I could marry a girl like you. How do you feel about baseball?

    Montana, the font ain't funky here either.

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  14. OK UTs, the dayshift have ably arrived, so goodnight from here. Later.

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  15. What a bellend you are, Chekov.

    Skulking around threads but not contributing because your prissy principles won't allow it, and returning here - to this enclave where prize fuckwits are cuddled and stroked in some misguided sense of solidarity - to cry in your late night beer. And when no one takes any notice, to ratchet up the volume by screaming about my supposed pretensions to mimic Orwell's style. It's just too fucking sad.

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  16. PeterJ - yes, you're right - still a good statement, think.

    Alisdair - aye, the follow-up conversation with the other female economist went something like:
    Q - so, do you think you bring something different to a debate?
    A - yes, but I don't think that's got anything to do with me being a woman...

    second one made much more sense. possibly because she was talking about economics rather than half-arsed pseudo-science gender conspiracy theory...

    boudican - heheheh. also hate shopping and like war films. perfect girlfriend material - just not for DB, who hates football. am working on that. she keeps asking wistfully when it will all be over - haven't had the heart to tell her that the season starts in a couple of weeks....

    peterb - so why come here then, if we're all prize fuckwits? doesn't that also make you a prize fuckwit? you've certainly been the only screamer recently. honestly, pet, neck in...

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  17. @peter bracken

    Why don't you get on your (super) bike instead of hobnobbing with us fuckwits? I am not a Christian, but the opinion of a carpenter carries somewhat more panache than that of a commodity trader.

    Regards to the black swans.

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  18. I didn't say you were all prize fuckwits, Philippa; read the friggin' post.

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  19. fine - care to split us into two groups so we know who you're directly insulting next time?

    general alert - deb orr has been picked for the gender weighting / job losses article, which is better than the possible alternative...

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  20. PeterB

    ''to this enclave where prize fuckwits are cuddled and stroked in some misguided sense of solidarity''

    That was a bit strong Peter.If i remember correctly most of us 'fuckwits' welcomed you when you started posting here.Even though many of us openly stated we didn,t agree with many of your views.OK disagreement here can be a bit 'robust' at times but i find UTers are mainly decent people who are quick to forgive and forget.And that includes Chekhov who i haven,t met but who strikes me anyway as being a decent bloke.

    I know you took a bit of a pasting on CIF for your 'Deluded Left' piece.But you still generated over a 1000 comments which must be a near record for someone who is primarily BTL.And play your cards right you might even have the opportunity of turning CIF into a nice little earner for yourself.But you won,t help yourself by lashing out at all and sundry.Seriously mate get it into some sort of perspective.

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  21. I've gotta laugh, Philippa, because this site hurls insults every minute of its day. And I'm OK with insult, because I'm near absolutist on freedom of speech. But don't come all high and sanctimonious mighty when sometimes it's hurled towards one of your own.

    That's what fucks me off about the deluded Left, too: it doesn't like lying in a bed of its own making.

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  22. As I said, Paul, to Philippa, there are lots of people on here to whom that comment wasn't addressed.

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  23. BTW, Paul: I don't do it for the money. You'd know that if you knew what CiF pays.

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  24. Morning all

    Can everyone stop shouting?!!!? I have a hangover!

    (Only joking)

    HIPPO BIDET to YOU TURMINDERX

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  25. fine, fine - i don't like that, and i don't like this.

    and i'd say 'exasperated' rather than 'all high and sanctimonious mighty'.

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  26. Fair enough Peter.I,m not 'preaching' here.You are however always going to be a controversial figure with some sectors of the Guardian readership.But one who attracts a lot of attention which i,m sure many at Guardian Towers relish.Obviously what you do with that is up to you.Anyway i hope you continue posting on both UT and CIF.Variety being the spice of life and all that.Regards!

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  27. quieter now, can I come in ?

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  28. Am celebrating my win on the lottery of 2 (yes, two) whole pounds, with a boily egg.

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  29. Bonjour Frog!

    Yes I think it's safe to come in now!

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  30. I didn't know you could win that little on the lottery La Rit, doesn't seem worth it really.

    I love a bit of a gamble but the lottery has never appealed to me, thank god there seems to be one every day now.

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  31. Hi La Rit ! Don't believe in feeding them myself :)
    Well we did get a greggthread,fwiw, lots of interest despite the hiding it away. any ideas for what next ? Baring in mind that a direct attack on atos/A4E would be diff to get past Guardian Towers, it would have to be a little ... indirect.
    Gotta do a little work later , blazing hot to cut hedges too, so will not be as much involved as last times .
    Yes, EGGS is a good idea, off to cook !

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  32. Jen:

    I know, it's pathetic really - I got the first numeral of the 'Dream Number'.... you have to get all 7, in order, to win 500,000. I know people who've played for years and the most they've ever won is a tenner. Apparently, the trick is to choose higher value numbers above 31 as most folk go with birthdays - so the pot is diluted if you do win.

    I play about once very 6 months.....

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  33. Frog:

    The eggs are a good antidote to too much of the Black stuff the night before.

    There was a comentor called EuroJohn who was really knowledgeable about how exactly the changes to the HB would affect people. I might suggest they contact him. He said he was feeling very frustrated as people just didn't understand what hell these bastards are going to visit on huge numbers of vulnerable people like the elderly.

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  34. Turminder...happy birthday hope you have a good day..

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  35. PeterB, I wouldn't worry about chekhov's comparisons with Orwell - he seems to think that 1984 and Animal Farm were 'polemics'. Perhaps you should lend him your extra-big dictionary.

    On the style front, old Eric would probably have deleted most of your article on the grounds of rule 6 (rather than say anything outright barbarous). He would, however, have approved of your adherence to rule 4 (never use the passive where you can use the active). Well done! My own view is that it was a badly written piece, and I'm fairly sure that I disagree with most/all of it, but I'm not quite sure about that as your ideas were presented so poorly. Still, I'll look foward to the next one! Do you fancy taking a swing at "Jerusalem, the shining city upon a hill: why Israel is a beacon of civilization in a dark and primitive region."? :0)

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  36. PhilippaB
    The irony there is that the second "economist" (well, member of the Treasury Select Committee) was also my constituency MP until June. She was parachuted in as an on-message candidate on an all-women shortlist in 1995, having been inner London council leader and GMB communications director in London prior to that. She maintained candidacy after s/lists were declared illegal. She talked sense this morning though, but she was a very pro-establishment, rightist MP who had used the feminist arguments of the eighties and nineties (as had Patricia Hewitt)to further her career. Her contribution to the area have been supporting massive new, unneccessary housing developments and overseeing an unusually high level of unskilled immigration taking up low-paid jobs.

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  37. Happy Birthday TurminderXuss!

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  38. "Where prize fuckwits are cuddled and stroked in some misguided sense of solidarity"

    Like it.

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  39. bitterweed - my accent radar must be broken again, i thought she was american...maybe that was the first one. oh well.

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  40. french lesson calls - laters...

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  41. Good grief. My neighbour has just been evicted. She's HIV positive and no longer has a roof over her head. Un-fucking believable.

    The judge didn't even read the letter from her doctor.

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  42. Yeah! Peter B got claws!

    It's always nice when a commentator comes BTL to address his readers, but crossing over sites to have a random, sweary pop at a bunch of people who may or may not give a shite is really above-and-beyond the call of duty. Keep it up sir, and keep those articles flowing - it was a blast.

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  43. PhilippaB
    I thought the yank spoke first. The MP was Sally Keeble. It is quite possible that as I was dithering about doing three things badly at once while late for work my attention was foobarred.

    Related - I remember having a lengthy debate with PCC about a year ago about women city workers being more able to confront groupthink and therefore avoid the most destructive risk taking. I thought SK made this point reasonably well, but you may well be right...


    %-)

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  44. The Natalie Evans article is a complete joke, she waxes lyrical about some report from a right wing think tank without remembering to say both that she is a member and edited the bloody report, do they think no one checks these things?

    I'm not sure if Cif actually doesn't give a shit or they do it on purpose to create a bit of a stir, probably a bit of both.

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  45. Peter may have been a soldier, but I don't think he's been able to put the gun down.....

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  46. ""Where prize fuckwits are cuddled and stroked in some misguided sense of solidarity"

    Looks like we have a new tagline for the UT (second in a row courtesy of PB). Hmm?

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  47. That is terrible news about your neighbour La Rit.

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  48. Wasn't Peter at one point complaining about Montanas vile language (using the incredibly polite phrase 'spewing bile like a drunken hag' or something.

    And he is very quick to call people out for not engaging with the argument and playing the ball not the man (olching the other day for instance).

    Yet when anyone upsets him he comes out swinging, and sobbing a bit like a teenager having a hissy fit.

    Is it one rule for others and another for Prince Peter.

    I wasn't going to comment on this in case big bad Peter turns on me again but what the hell I'm bored.

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  49. JenL

    Very upsetting indeed. She's in pieces, she has a temporary place to stay but it's bloody awful.... she's a lovely person and I'm going to miss her very mcuh ;(

    apparently, even the Lawyer acting for the Landlords was very uncomfortable.

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  50. Happy Birthday Turminder - from one fuckwitt to another :)

    PeterB - you may have just found a new untrusted tag line there mate - I like it too.

    Oooh Bitterweed - that debate was ages ago. There is quite a lot of research that shows that either mixed gender trading environments or more female heavy ones tend to less extremes than the usual - mostly male - ones. They tended not to make the same degree of profits but also neither did they hit the same lows.

    Of course I cant remember how they came to this conclusion - and I didn't actually believe it myself - I hate all that bollocks. I think I actually said that on the thread? Something along the lines of I didn't believe in arguments about stereotyped gender behaviour but I was playing devils advocate with a fair number of blokes who were basically saying charming things like ''if women ruled the world we'd all still be living in mud huts cause they have no drive'' etc, etc.

    I tend to be of AlisdairCamerons opinion - a lot of the differences between the genders are very over played (which is why I detest evopsych).

    When I worked in finance some of the most aggressive and risk taking people were women and some of the more conservative were men. I don't think having a load more female economists would have stopped this meltdown necessarily. Wasn't it a woman who invented the CDS? I am sure it was - great a 'financial weapon of mass destruction' according to (I think) Roubini.

    There was one interesting survey though as this was done in the ''real world'' as it were rather than being set up - they looked at companies across Europe and found that those with much more mixed boards - gender wise - were more succesfull long term than those with highly male boards. And to quite an astonishing degree. But again I don't think that is because they are women per se (if you had all female boards everywhere they would be just as useless as all male boards) but I tend to think it is because diversity - in gender, age, ethnicity, life experience etc - is more likely to produce a board (or a group of traders etc) who act as checks and balances to one another.

    Who knows? My brain is a bit like mush at the minute (happens with the ME) and my posts of the last few days are reflecting that - especially yesterdays which were mostly bollocks.

    BTW - I am going to read back the threads I have missed but is there any idea yet of another Sheffield meet up?

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  51. LOL, no point in arguing with PB, jennifer, the man's a force of nature combined with an unstoppable mechanised brigade-sized assault.

    He's the living embodiment of the doctrine of Flucht nach vorne - when in a hole, ATTACK!

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  52. jennifer,

    yes Natalie Evans of Policy Exchange. I just posted something on the thread.

    I detest everything these think tanks stand for. Hiding behind 'objectivity, independent, charity' whilst they are in fact mouthpieces for the City and Conservative Party donors.

    They attempt to give the neo-liberal movement an intellectual 'social' sheen in which they care about 'the big questions of society' whilst spuriously claiming to be indepdendent and supporting the Market status quo.

    "Look at me, Natalie Evans, look how banal and intellectual I look. You know, I've been giving the big questions of society a lot of thought and do you know what would be the best for all of us? To keep the hegemony of the City as the basis of rule, but I say it in such an disingenuous manner with flowery language and warped interpretation of statistics to show I am impartial, scientific and right."

    Vile, vile, vile. Ever since the Adam Smith Institute, these soft focus free marketeer think tanks have been a scourge of the whole political process.

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  53. Indeed princesschipchops - your posts on that debate were pretty godamn good I seem to remember; there was some particularly pretty boneheaded blokishness around.

    My point (as I skulked off) was more about the article - which pretty much claimed the banking collapse would not have happened if wimmin ruled the world - my point was that as many female as male shareholders had palpably - aggressively - supported traders' activity in this and all the preceding booms - dotcom/media/telecom - property - commodities - and I didn't recall a single piece of evidence that female investors had demanded any more caution of the industry than men - greed has been non gender-specific.

    In the spirit and ethos of cuddling and stroking in some misguided sense of solidarity, I must add that your posts are always pretty cool, as long as you can take a complment from a prize fuckwit.

    PS Sheffield meetup again would be great; that said I am more than happy to host one in S-E Midlands if people prefer. Accessible for most parts of England - London and Yorks. And I'm thinking September. Haven't told the missus yet though...

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  54. 13thDukeofWybourne
    Looking forward to the next series of Thick of It. I'm hoping these Policy Exchange types will get a roasting...

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  55. Meant to say Happy Birthday Turminder, lang may yer lum reek!

    Can I second jay's suggestion to change the sub heading of the UT in light of Mr Bracken's latest observation. Hopefully we can get some type of deal where Mr Bracken can change the subheading each month?

    As for the World Cup final. Come on guys, support the Duke's adopted country. The football's been industrial but surely a Dutch victory would be a belated world thank you for totaalvoetbal and the conveyor belt of magnificent talent the low land has given the world?

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  56. Bitterweed - if anyone thinks that women are nicer, less greedy, more cautious, better at economics etc, etc than men you just have to say two words. Margaret and Thatcher.

    Yep I think the crash would have happened if women had ruled the markets too. As I said I am sure it was a woman who invented CDS so hardly a ringing endorsement.

    September sounds good. SE midlands is good - whatever is easy for people to get to - and it is pretty central for many. I will have to go easier on the wine this time then I might actually get to meet everyone for longer than two hours!

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  57. Jay - sorry just realised I nicked your tagline idea.

    LaRit - how awful for your neighbour - that is really vile to do that to someone.

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  58. Stephen Fry On the Apple iPad -
    "I was astounded,impressed,stunned, disbelieving, and gleefully bitch-slapped by the droolworthy absolute perfection of this device."

    peterbracken On the non-bracken -
    "Fulsome derision of prize fuckwits " (to be continued )

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  59. Morning all....


    Happy Birthday Turminder. May it be all awesome and that!

    Pip/PeterJ

    I was beginning to think I'd imagined the sticker thing, so thanks for that. Still think it's a bit weird that it was stuck over the federation badge though...Like maybe it was some sort of protest....

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  60. Hey guy's, haven't read every word above, but am very touched!

    I'm up in Embra getting drunk with my pals in the comic shop. Can't think of anything nicer. Catch u all l8r. P xxx

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  61. Hmm
    There are two contenders here:

    The UT - "Fulsome derision of prize fuckwits"

    or

    The UT - "Where prize fuckwits are cuddled and stroked in some misguided sense of solidarity"

    He is of course bang-on about the late night beer. Mmmm... beer....

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  62. "I'm up in Embra getting drunk with my pals in the comic shop. Can't think of anything nicer."

    turminder
    Have a belter. I hope you're around with some choons over the weekend. Feel, like a party.

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  63. Bitterweed-- you may pick and mix from the collected works of our Author.

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  64. Happy B Turminder.

    Frog

    Have bookmarked the Gregg - lots of linkies etc to keep.

    Northred asking again for expose of ATOS on waddya.

    Bella supposed to presenting idea of series/section on welfare 'reforms' today at meeting - if we don't get positive response or just get some wishy washy stuff which does not fully investigate we will have to start again.

    I really think we are at a turning point here - if we let all this stand we will create a society not worth living in.

    As capitalism slowly implodes we have to look seriously at alternatives - but NOT alternatives - or a continuation - of policies which exclude compassion.

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  65. Started my holiday reading with Simon Sebag Montefiore's 'Dunkirk' which was bought for me at Xmas. Decided to start reading it on the 70th anniversary of the event.

    Has anyone read it? The entire premise is that the Fall of France and subsequent rush to the beaches was caused by the lily livered cowardice of Pierre le Shitbag the Frenchie and Bertrand Couldntpunchwayoutpaperbagaghen the Belgian.

    Meanwhile, Colonel Hubert Cuthington-Fafafafafafa (Smithy) Smythington is much loved by his men (working class types found in 'Commando' comics such as 'Taffy' Jones and 'Jock' McLeod) when he shares out his Fortnum and Mason hamper among them. Whilst they singlehandedly cover the beaches and give Fritz a bloody nose in the process.

    It's astonishing stuff.

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  66. @M. frog2

    Sorry, missed you on the Gregg thread and haven't looked at WDYWTTA due to pressures of work :-((

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  67. @13thDuke

    Hmm. That plot sounds oddly familiar. Has he been dipping into the old Commando comics again, I wonder?

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  68. I wonder what FUCKWIT is in Filipino.The reason i ask is that i noticed a couple of lurkers from the Phillipines earlier.And it occurred to me that the UT may play a key role in helping the international community improve their understanding of the English Language.Many a time when i,ve been working in the early hours i,ve noticed people lurking from all over the world.So i hope i,ve played my part too in helping these lovely people achieve a level of competence in our Language that they surely wouldn,t be able to achieve at home.

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  69. To paraphrase that learned economist on Newsnight on Monday, can we have a chat about WTF Russia are doing in the BRIC group ?

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  70. Paul

    Er, that's my Au Pair. She's back in the basement now.

    Keep it under your hat, hmm ?

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  71. Bitterweed

    Gawd blimey guv,nor! I,ve heard about geysers like you wot have birds from the Orient.It,s a diabolical liberty if you ask me sir it really is.And i 'ope you checked to make sure she ain.t one of them ladyboys.I mean you just can,t tell these days sir you really can,t.

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  72. Paul

    "I wonder what FUCKWIT is in Filipino"

    Exactly the same apparently. Most disappointing

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  73. Paul
    I have had her thoroughly checked out by my Harley Street GP. Apart from the big cock, she's all woman.

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  74. @ BW
    "can we have a chat about WTF Russia are doing in the BRIC group"
    Because otherwise the acronym would be BIC and that's a registered trademark? Presumably for the vast oil and gas supplies which are ever more valuable.

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  75. Bitterweed

    Aah a chick with a dick!Not to worry as according to Bru they,re this seasons must-have accessory.As long as you,ve got one with a detachable dick it shouldn,t be a problem.Tends to get in the way otherwise-or so i,ve been told.

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  76. @Duke

    Sounds very like a lot of the stuff in the dangerous fascist Dennis Wheatley nonsense I used to read as a small boy.

    @Bitterweed

    Au pairs in basements? Have you ever seen a film called "Mum and Dad"? I'm feeling very uncomfortable now.

    * * *

    Well, since his thread, I've revised my opinion of old Sherman McCoy Bracken. He's not only a revolting little shit, he's a total fucking moron. Even down to lying about what you posted earlier on in the day, then when you post what you actually wrote, saying, "Ah, but what you really meant was..."

    Telepath or two shares short of an option? You decide.

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  77. Frog

    I meant a turning point in thinking - the acceptance here of so much which marginalises and punishes the helpless - thinking in 'cost benefit' terms to the dtriment of millions. - somehow we have to turn the trajectory. Need new ideas - socioeconomics.
    The old L/R thinking no longer serves. Not for me antway.

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  78. where prize fuckwits are cuddled and stroked in some misguided sense of solidarity

    Love it! - definitely lets have it for a strapline - we could stick it underneath 'plain, thuggish and thick.' Wasn't that also one of PB's? could be wrong.

    Montana or somebody with admin powers - could you do it?

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  79. BW

    Re next meet up. More than happy to join you down at yours if thats what people want. Sheffield offer still open. So its up to people to decide what they want.

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  80. leni- gotcha.Post disappeared and popped up much later, weird.

    Wednesday 07 July 2010 John Wight
    Few reading this will know who Paul Reekie was. Aged 48, he was recently found dead at his home in Edinburgh. No suicide note was left, but on the table were two letters. One had just informed him that his housing benefit was being stopped. The other had been sent to inform him that his incapacity benefit was also being stopped.
    According to close friends, Reekie had been suffering the after-effects of a serious assault. It was also known that he had personal demons to contend with.


    Morning Star

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  81. #where prize fuckwits are cuddled and stroked in some misguided sense of solidarity#

    Fuckin scandalous..you can't make a comment like that without saying who's a fuckwit and who isn't.

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  82. MF

    Fuckwits are in the eye of the beholder.

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  83. Leni

    you been stroked or cuddled lately?

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  84. MF

    I only accept cuddles from human beans - lots of ciffers would have me running for cover.

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  85. monkeyfish

    Fuckin scandalous..you can't make a comment like that without saying who's a fuckwit and who isn't.

    I don't think PB does that sort of detail - he's more a 'broad brushstrokes' kind of chap.

    Leni

    Fuckwits are in the eye of the beholder

    Another good potential strapline. Together with BW's "Fulsome derision of prize fuckwits". We could have them backed up for weeks at this rate.

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  86. Leni

    I only accept cuddles from human beans

    Cats can be quite accommodating I find.

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  87. pixie fulsome derision is from MY collection :)
    pbcomments are a rich resource ...

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  88. ....pleeeease stop calling him PB, it confuses me....

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  89. oops - sorry frog. How could I have missed that! Must be 'cos I'm just an old fuckwit. :-))

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  90. I really think we are at a turning point here - if we let all this stand we will create a society not worth living in.

    If you let it all stand, you'll be creating America with tea and real football.

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  91. #Labour must seize the moment

    The flood of new members is a great opportunity to restore the party to its rightful role as the home of progressives everywhere#

    so says...

    "Ellie Gellard is a 21 year old Labour activist from Bristol University. She launched the Labour manifesto at the beginning of the GE campaign. She blogs as the Stilettoed Socialist and tweets as @BevaniteEllie"

    ..so there you have it..the real Deluded Left..the Labour Party:home of telegenic young middle-class wannabes who'll prove their loyalty and 'worth' by shilling for a smug, fat, compromised Thatcherite.

    Class?..full employment?..a living wage?..restoration of organised labour rights?.."nah..fuck that..just get me a safe seat quick...I'm perfect..kinda cute..ideologically bereft..and just look how many times I can say progressive in one sentence"

    THAT is the deluded left...middle-class freemarket liberals who've appropriated a political organisation and rather than admit to the theft and deception have convinced themselves that they were entitled..because they're 'of the Left'..pure delusion.

    Still..at least it's progressive delusion..and anything's OK if you're progressive..it's a magic bullet. You can be a talentless, self-loving middle-class waste of space who only got a job through daddy's contacts but as long as you're 'progressive', you're left wing..and committed to the dignity of labour..at least the labour of those who move or work in a little self-sustaining media/political circle...and as for the working class..fuck em..bunch of neo Nazis who haven't even got the gumption to realise that being priced out by cheap Polish brickies is actually good for you..it makes you more competitive..we're all in this together remember.."Onward and upward".

    ReplyDelete
  92. For anyone interested:

    http://opencopynews.com/groups/uk-welfare-reform/

    http://civilactivism.com/groups/uk-welfare-reform/

    Along the lines which James was mentioning, you can bung different types of files and links and things there, discuss, share information, knock together articles, plan etc.

    Please use contact form to get invite.

    This is needed because of high levels of spam and splogs otherwise.

    Thanks.

    ReplyDelete
  93. monkeyfish

    I think you will find that the article you mention is simply the polite way for nice middle-class girls to say:

    Gisa job!

    ReplyDelete
  94. That lofty moral perch you've occupied reeks of sanctimony. Hardly surprising that you will receive the most condign fulsome derision.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Progressive - can anyone supply definition please?

    ReplyDelete
  96. frog2

    Nice to see a spot of condign there.

    Not used nearly enough these days.

    ReplyDelete
  97. Nice one, MF. Ellie's latest tweet - thank you! But I can't, on the road. Will try later though Graun message boards are notoriously trollish.

    She'll fit right in! (Although I wonder what her stance is on 9/11 and Hezbollah?) My big worry is if she is 'deluded' enough to really make a difference to this great old party of ours, which I have loved ever since I first heard of it from my progressive dustbin-man who was sooo sweet, and when Maggie Thatcher stole my milk I was so angry that I wanted her to fall down the stairs, and Ed Balls is really dreamy zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    Vote for me!

    ReplyDelete
  98. A couple of days ago I read a comment from Ian Williams on some blog or other, following his piece on Cif about the late Hezbollah patron Fadlallah and his enlightened views on allowing Muslim women to wear nail varnish under certain specified circumstances (really).

    When it was pointed out on the blog that Fadlallah also favoured suicide bombers, regarded all Jews in Israel as legitimate targets for same, and was one of the more open Holocaust deniers, Williams leapt into commenting action.

    He pointed out that in the Commando war comics he read as a youth, those volunteering for suicide missions were very well thought of by all.

    You do have to feel that that comparison's a bit of a stretch.

    (Sorry, it was the mention of Commando that brought it all back to me.)

    ReplyDelete
  99. Atoms-- yes someone (you ?) was asking for it to be used more only the other day . My most fulsome thanks to you too.

    ReplyDelete
  100. @Your Grace

    I seem to recall that Sebag Montefiore's Dunkirk came in for something of a panning along the lines you mention.

    Shame; his Young Stalin is really quite good.

    ReplyDelete
  101. Outsourcing lobbyist getting some shit on CiF. Lt Slick on form--- here

    Could squeeze some Atos-bombing in there ....

    ReplyDelete
  102. There's fun to be had on theSad demise of celibate love thread from one of those Opus Dei chaps.

    ReplyDelete
  103. #thank you! But I can't, on the road. Will try later though Graun message boards are notoriously trollish.#

    troll: n def. someone who says something you'd rather not hear in a public forum.

    example: "You're a worthless self-interested shitehawk who feigns egalitarianism by getting passionate about just which deserving causes get the largest share of a dwindling pot while tacitly supporting the corporate elite who have sucked the trough dry and caused the problem by spinning a line about a fairer future for all and simultaneously protecting your own undeserved privilege. And you've got the fuckin nerve to call yourself progressive...and the sheer fuckin brass neck to claim to be of the Left?"

    #don't worry sweetheart..no need to respond, it's just one of those deluded leftie trolls..time to move on and hopefully get one of your mates at CIF to wipe the offending comment.#

    ReplyDelete
  104. @Frog

    Yes, 'condign' is good. As is 'egregious'. It's a shame 'fulsome' has lost its original meaning, though. A single word for "cloying, unctuous and obsequious" was handy, even if it did obviate (ha!) the more frequent use of those three.

    Still, that's usage for you.

    ReplyDelete
  105. #All the Spanish in our building are looking very happy this morning. Bless.

    However given the number of Dutch in our own office I might have to wear my nice little orange blouse with the fancy beading tomorrow or face the consequences.

    I just hope the clairvoyant octopus doesn't end up on someone's dinner plate in Berlin.

    In Antwerp on Sunday they are televising the match final on the historic town square so the café owners are going to do a roaring trade.

    However the World Cup will have competition as the Tall Ships' race is starting out from Antwerp and the ships are in dock on Sunday.

    I might stow away.....#

    might???..might?? fuck this wishful thinking business..Carpe diem sweetheart!...you sneak straight on board the first boat going anywhere close to Somalia...

    ReplyDelete
  106. And you've got the fuckin nerve to call yourself progressive...and the sheer fuckin brass neck to claim to be of the Left?
    Now that's a tagline.
    Oh, and pharisaical anyone?

    ReplyDelete
  107. Oh, and that octopus.Northumbria police ought to ask it where Raoul Moat is.

    ReplyDelete
  108. @Alisdair

    It'll only say Spain again...

    ReplyDelete
  109. #David Johnston, the chief executive of the Social Mobility Foundation, singles out journalism as one of the most exclusive fields to crack: "You increasingly need an expensive postgrad qualification to get anywhere. Then once you've got it, a lot of people have to do a six-month internship, sometimes a year, only to then find that the jobs are allocated because someone knows someone who knows someone."#

    ..Zoe Williams writes...which kinda raises the question: How come you quote David Johnston, the chief executive of the Social Mobility Foundation, when you work at the fuckin Guardian? This is probably the one fuckin area of expertise your sorry rag retains. You're world-leaders in both intern exploitation and rank nepotism. FFS..this should have all been first person, stream of consciousness stuff Zoe.

    I mean FFS, how did a second rate, navel-gazing lifestyle pornographer like you ever get a job there if you didn't have connections?

    What's that you say?..talent?...best candidate for the job?..stop it my sides ache.

    ReplyDelete
  110. This is from the stilettoed socialist's blog:

    "I would like to make quite clear that I have absolutely nothing against the other candidates, in fact, I think we in the Labour movement should celebrate the fact that we have more than one candidate who would be more than up to the job. David Miliband has a formidable “CV” and has made points regarding our loss at the election which we ignore at our peril. His defence of idealism impressed. I watched Ed Miliband announce his candidacy on Saturday and his willingness to reach out to those on the Left, who may not be affiliated directly with the party, should be food for thought, a basis to build our movement.

    But, there, I thought I should show my hand. I wish all candidates the best of luck and look forward to an exciting, refreshing and honest debate which will lay the foundations for our fightback".


    I honestly don't know whether to laugh or cry!

    ReplyDelete
  111. How about "ruinous simpletons" as a starting point?

    Obviously, it's only two words at the moment, so it will need padding out with about forty thousand more (obviously adding no meaning but just standing around in neat rows), but it seems to have that "inglourious basterds" ring to it, which could take off.

    Anyway, the word on the WADDYA grapevine is that once you reach the dizzying heights of the "Mike Reid 1000 Plus Club" The Guardian splashes out.

    Apparently, they are going to ask Chris Crocker to make a new video.

    ReplyDelete
  112. 'Well, since his thread, I've revised my opinion of old Sherman McCoy Bracken. He's not only a revolting little shit, he's a total fucking moron."

    I'm a fucking moron. Jesus, you're a member of the French - the French - Communist Party.

    What does that make you, d'you think?

    ReplyDelete
  113. But after the first comment:

    "I agree with you totally, Ellie. Am sorry we won’t have the opportunity to vote for Yvette. Still, my money is on you being the first female leader in a couple of election’s time!"

    I went with crying!!

    ReplyDelete
  114. Evening all

    Any of my fellow fuckwits needing a cuddle?

    TURMINDER!! Happy birthday!! Have a good yin xx

    LaRit - I am gutted for your neighbour. Has she had any legal help at all? Really making me angry. If there is anything I can do to help, email me on beautifulburnoutbirdchrome@gmail.com and I will see if I can do anything, or if I can't, if I can find someone who can. I don't do a great deal of housing law but there are all sorts of law centres etc that might be able to help her.

    Your Grace

    As for Nigel Ptang Ptang Oulay Biscuit-Barrel's book on Dunkirk, is that "astonishing" as in "load of bollocks"?

    Now, in footy news, I am going for Spain, largely because I put my supporting services up for auction among my friends on Facebook - whoever was nicest to me got my support.

    Having said that, the Dutchies were already handicapped in the sense that they are far more reserved, and less open to corruption, than the Spanish, so they didn't take the bait.

    But one spanish friend said I was looking particularly beautiful last night and the other is naming his first daughter after me. Allegedly.

    GO SPAIN!

    :p

    ReplyDelete
  115. PeteyB

    "I'm a fucking moron. Jesus, you're a member of the French - the French - Communist Party.

    What does that make you, d'you think? "

    Enlightened? :p

    ReplyDelete
  116. So let’s see if I’ve got this right…

    According to BB, I’m a lobotomised stalker/imposter, according to MF I’m in a tag team with BTH, and according to the great MontanaWildhack I’m…

    …a dick. Ooh, that’s so incisive. You go right on thinking that, Montana. I’m sure it will be a huge consolation to simply dismiss someone who disagrees with you, and avoid the unpleasant process of having to ponder whether you might be just the tiniest bit wrong about anything.

    If this is the best the collective minds of the Untrusted can come up with, I really wonder why I ever thought it was worth spending any time here.

    Looks like you’ve spent too much time taking pot shots at easy targets on CiF and massaging each others’ egos about how simply marvellously you refuted those nasty right wing trolls, darling.

    You appear to have become a bad parody of the very closed-mind orthodoxy you purport to challenge in The Guardian.

    Truly, the idea that a woman is justified in resenting a mere man daring to express an opinion on the issue of misogyny is straight out of the book of UltimaThule. It was nonsense when she came out with it, and it’s still nonsense when you spout it now.

    Good luck with the film/book/music/whatever pages, Montana; maybe soon you can challenge for the title of Consumer Publisher of the Year (current holder A Rusbridger).

    One final thought:

    “For evil to triumph, all that is necessary is for good men to do nothing”

    Edmund Burke

    “Whatevs, I can’t be arsed…”

    The collective geniuses of Untrusted

    Well, I can be arsed, and I’m going to continue to challenge what I see as dodgy ideologies wherever I find them. Don’t think I’ll bother with you anymore though, Montana, you’re too bound up in your own complacent arrogance…

    ReplyDelete
  117. Here's an idea.

    Given this forum's amassed intellect why not collectively agree on a subject for publication on CiF? You can then nominate someone to write it, with input from the site so that it resembles an editorial, of sorts. And then pitch it to Jessica.

    I'd read it.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Montana

    Thanks for the new sub-heading. Nice ring to it.

    Turminder

    Sorry! Forgot your Happy Birthday!

    Laters.

    ReplyDelete
  119. "might???..might?? fuck this wishful thinking business..Carpe diem sweetheart!...you sneak straight on board the first boat going anywhere close to Somalia... "

    ...made I larf.

    Oooh you naughty little fishy, you! :p

    ReplyDelete
  120. monkeyfish,

    Still..at least it's progressive delusion..and anything's OK if you're progressive..it's a magic bullet. You can be a talentless, self-loving middle-class waste of space who only got a job through daddy's contacts but as long as you're 'progressive', you're left wing..and committed to the dignity of labour.

    Bang on. I think that PM question time in 20 years will consist of the Oxbridge youth chamber hunched over blackberry's communicating via twitter:


    @SophieProgressive-LeaderofOpp
    Wd Pm join me in condmnng Sec of State 4 skinny rib jeans Suggstion that VAT shd be raised on the iphone 625th generation?

    @OppBackBenches
    LOL, Here,here,here…

    @DaveManagerialist-PM
    INMHO, it is rite VAT on iphone 625 be raised otherwise other Depts, namely Ministry of Facebook wd bear brunt of tax rises.

    @FacelessIdeologyFree19YOWhoOwesPoliticalCareer2GoodContactsinOxBridge-MP
    Wd my RH friend join me in congratulating microsoft for succsfl imp Of latest brain cell /critical thinkn destroying software?

    @DaveManagerialist-PM
    I thnk we cn all b prd of Dept of eductions success in dmbing down learnin& Implmtn cult of youth wth no ideology or carez. Sponsored by shockwaves.

    @SophieProgressiveLeaderofOpp
    Wd PM care 2 commnt on Sec of State 4 Ensurin only technocrt Oxbridgers get in2 Par’sl credentials 4 job?

    @DaveManagerialist-PM
    Sec of State Stuart SoftFocus-Neoliberalist MP hs all creds needed. 17 yo, absltly no clue
    abt anythn othr thn servn those he owes his career 2. In shrt a future PM in waitin.

    @GovtBackbenches & @OppBackBenches
    HEAR!HEAR!HEAR!HEAR!HEAR!......................

    ReplyDelete
  121. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  122. Andy

    "If this is the best the collective minds of the Untrusted can come up with, I really wonder why I ever thought it was worth spending any time here."

    Don't let us keep you, dear. You are free not to bother at all if it suits you.

    Jeez, you really do sound like Bitey in this post, though. No joke. I am a bit worried about you, in all seriousness, because you really don't sound like yourself at all. And I am not being sarky or ironic or anything else. I am concerned.

    You always were someone who was concise, intelligent, funny, entertaining and, above all, someone who didn't sling mud left right and centre. In your time away you have metamorphosed into someone who seems to be really upset with other people all the blooming time. And I have no idea why.

    :(

    ReplyDelete
  123. 40 fuckin posts on that Outsourcing Lobbyists piece,and nearly all about IT. I did my Atos-bomb for tonite XXXXXXX

    ReplyDelete
  124. #Given this forum's amassed intellect why not collectively agree on a subject for publication on CiF? You can then nominate someone to write it, with input from the site so that it resembles an editorial, of sorts. And then pitch it to Jessica.#

    Why do you suppose the concept of being published on CIF represents a worthwhile ambition for any normal person? I'd much rather just take the piss..far as I'm concerned pitching articles to the actual deluded left (as represented by a bunch of self-congratulatory media luvvies), telling them how and why they're deluded is akin to pissing into a hurricane. Besides which, it gets you banned and branded a "vexatious poster".

    You ought to stick to taking the piss too..far as I'm concerned your finest contribution to the place was correctly profiling Imogen Black as a facile self-promotion device on the poster of the year thread..not over struck on your recent output. Wasn't even original tbh...the picture you were painting was 40+ years old at least. That old stereotype of the Marxist provincial polytechnic Sociology lecturer..they were always a curiosity rather than a threat to anything.

    The big problem these days is that some of the more fatuous aspects of their relativist moralising have been adopted by middle-class media-politico careerists masquerading as enlightened and egalitarian. The real deluded left are the NuLabour supporting stooges who buy the bullshit. The deluded left is an oxymoron..nothing remotely left wing about them..that's where the delusion comes in.

    ReplyDelete
  125. #That old stereotype of the Marxist provincial polytechnic Sociology lecturer..they were always a curiosity rather than a threat to anything.#

    ..neo-Marxist..should have said..Frankfurt School

    ReplyDelete
  126. re: Sebag Motefiore's 'Dunkirk'.

    He's now regaling me with the anecdote of Brig. M.B. Beckwith-Smith offering £5 to any of his gunners who can bring down a Nazi dive bomber, giving the advice that the gunners should

    "take them down like a high pheasant".

    Meanwhile Lt. Col. Lionel Bootle-Wilbraham (I shit you not) despairs of the speed in which Tommy disappears into French brothels.

    This is brilliant.

    Sebag Montefire falls into the Niall Ferguson/Andrew Roberts school of anglo-centric populist crud that Gove wants on the History curriculum.

    I'll let you know when Brigadier General Farquharson-Dribblethwaite remonstrates with a fleeing French Soldier who's on a bike wearing a beret, hooped shirt and a ring of onions going"

    Heehawheehaw, monsiuer rosbif. Ah em ah cowardlee custard az you say in Angleterre. Ah weesh we Fraancheez had even an ounce of ze backbone you great Island racers have. Au revoir and cover ma back....

    I hadn't realised that Sebag Montefiore's entire research was based on the unaired Allo Allo episodes which were canned as being too insultingly stereotypical of the French.

    ReplyDelete
  127. #You can then nominate someone to write it, with input from the site so that it resembles an editorial, of sorts. And then pitch it to Jessica.#

    Fuck it..changed my mind. I nominate..ME

    The subject: Who likes Jaffa Cakes the most..dogs,cats or meercats?

    alternatively: Can a real democracy continue to fubction with a media so overrun with nepotism, patronage, corporate lackeydom and talentless nonentities at the helm?

    probably pitch it to Bella..big decision..bit contentious maybe, but she can always run it up the flagpole and see what daddy thinks..

    "OK sweetheart..but drop the meercats..don't want to offend any East Europeans..I was going to ask Ludmilla to creosote the fence on Sunday"

    ReplyDelete
  128. Jeez, you really do sound like Bitey in this post, though. No joke. I am a bit worried about you, in all seriousness, because you really don't sound like yourself at all. And I am not being sarky or ironic or anything else. I am concerned

    i echo both the observation of change and the best of intentions Andy,,you may know i post little but i hope my sincerity has been noticable,,

    ReplyDelete
  129. MonkeyFish:

    "Class?..full employment?..a living wage?..restoration of organised labour rights?.."nah..fuck that..just get me a safe seat quick...I'm perfect..kinda cute..ideologically bereft..and just look how many times I can say progressive in one sentence"

    THAT is the deluded left...middle-class freemarket liberals who've appropriated a political organisation and rather than admit to the theft and deception have convinced themselves that they were entitled..because they're 'of the Left'..pure delusion"

    That, is bang on the money!

    ReplyDelete
  130. Leni

    See Bella didn,t get back to you.Bit naughty of her considering she said the issue would be raised in todays meeting.Let,s hope she comes back with something positive tomorrow.:-)

    @philippa-was going to say sweet,n,sour pussy but being the shy and retiring type felt a bit of decorum was in order.:-)

    ReplyDelete
  131. Bloody hell!

    Right-wing think tank member posts article edited by same right-wing think tank member saying "Inequality's mkay, mkay? Those nasty researchers in The Spirit Level have got it all wrong by including data about Japan, the US and Scandinavia. Take those countries out and the results would be different..."

    No shit, Sherlock.

    Have a jaffa cake.

    FFS.

    Grrrrrrrrr.

    ReplyDelete
  132. Spot on LaRit (and MF).

    The bastards stole our party. And they won't give it back.

    ReplyDelete
  133. " The British soldier is often at his best when, against overwhelming odds, he has to go on fighting with his back against the wall,"


    not like those cowardly foreigners, Eh ?

    ReplyDelete
  134. Oooh - GIYUS's fave movie is on Five at 9.00 - Conspiracy Theory.

    I do like that film. Shows some "enhanced interrogation techniques" in it. Waterboarding. (Torture to us normal folks).

    ReplyDelete
  135. I actually quite like the 'Catcher in the Rye' angle in that film!!

    ReplyDelete
  136. And it's also quite ironic that it's got Mel Gibson in it.....

    ReplyDelete
  137. Yeah! Kind of ironic.

    It has every American (pre 9/11) conspiracy theory rolled up nicely in a bundle, though. Which is fun.

    ReplyDelete
  138. "far as I'm concerned your finest contribution to the place was correctly profiling Imogen Black as a facile self-promotion device on the poster of the year thread..."

    Strange, I regret that episode. Not the judgement that Imogen Black was clearly an unworthy candidate for poster of the year, but the fact that she had no part in the claims of her pretence to it. The poor wretch was gratuitously traduced by me.

    As for this:

    "Why do you suppose the concept of being published on CIF represents a worthwhile ambition for any normal person?"

    You spend too much time bellyaching about CiF to feign disinterest. Besides, I wasn't claiming any ambition on this site's behalf, worthwhile or not. Simply that if you've something to say, why not use the platform to say it? That's what it's there for.

    ReplyDelete
  139. Le Deuxieme Grenouille

    I feel quite ashamed at the way in which my fellow rosbifs sometimes rant on about the French being cheese-eating surrender monkeys. It wasn't until I lived there, and started hearing some of the elders' stories of what happened during the war that I realised we have never experienced anything like it, and I hope to god we never do.

    ReplyDelete
  140. When I was learning history at school, I always wondered how England lost the 100 Years War when it won all the battles. Then I went to live in France and found out no-one had heard of Crecy, Agincourt or Poitiers, but rather Bauge, Orleans and Patay.

    Especially, when you mention the Battle of Poitiers, they'll tell you that's where Charles Martel defeated the Moors in 732.

    I've always thought it'd be a great idea if French and English historians got together and worked out a school history of their two countries' interaction over the centuries. Might help to calm things down a little after a thousand years.

    ReplyDelete
  141. Spike - that would be a sensible idea.

    One of the many ironies when I was living in France was I had an after-hours job teaching English to French junior school kids. In the town's Centre Du Guesclin...

    ReplyDelete
  142. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  143. andy

    Have to say I agree with 3p4 and BB - you're not sounding at all like you're old self. There is definitely a very different tone to your most recent posts. I hope you're ok.

    PeterB

    As an ordinary UT fuckwit, I can see no purpose writing anything for cif. I have a life and most of it is not spent online but actually doing things - some of them even useful. Although I quite like periodically carping btl.

    ReplyDelete
  144. Belgium..Catholicism..rings a bell. I'm sure I once heard the place was like a superannuated version of the Sound of Music; Cherubic little mites sauntering around after benign and beatific clerics..learning of culture and manners and courtesy and handbags..

    next thing you know the scummy bastards of the pinko-queer-Maoist New Zealand press corps hatch this little nugget

    http://nz.news.yahoo.com/a/-/world/7534208/police-question-belgian-cardinal-in-child-abuse-probe/

    ReplyDelete
  145. "Not a place I'd want to waste any serious thought over..in..out..take the piss, anything more dignifies the place beyond its saccharine self-serving status".


    Oh, I don't know MonkeyFish, you may have been a tad harsh on the Guardian there!!


    I mean, take this beauty for example....

    (To summarise:

    Cameron is the bestest ever PM 'cause he's all nice, and suave, and never, ever forgets his P's and Q's, ohhh, and he's ever such a gent, and one cannot help but grab his little chubby-cheek and say 'You're ever such a nice boy you are Davey-Wavey'.....!)

    Journalism at it's very, very best.

    ReplyDelete
  146. shit..repost..too many words


    #You spend too much time bellyaching about CiF to feign disinterest.#

    I've spent literally years of my life bellyaching about the Tories, Merseyside Constabulary, the masons and Liverpool Football Club..doesn't mean I want to join any of them..much happier, more fulfilled and frankly righteous pissing in from outside the tent.


    #Besides, I wasn't claiming any ambition on this site's behalf, worthwhile or not. Simply that if you've something to say, why not use the platform to say it? That's what it's there for.#

    I tried that once. They banned me..apparently my comments were too free...I soared too close to that burning golden orb which is the editorial line of the World's leading liberal mouthpiece and my wings were burned..now I stick to this place..not perfect but it beats getting your liver plucked out each day by an eagle.

    #Strange, I regret that episode. Not the judgement that Imogen Black was clearly an unworthy candidate for poster of the year, but the fact that she had no part in the claims of her pretence to it. The poor wretch was gratuitously traduced by me.#

    shame that you regret it, you did the internet, reality and the forces of rationality a great service..she had every part in it..an intellectual pygmy whose every sentence was/is a piece of staged self-promotion..I bet she even gets in character for half an hour before she touches the keyboard..her motivation pinned to the wall: plucky outspoken undervalued progressive artistic heroine..with a cute line in self deprecation and a passable mug...silly cow (sorry Andy..I meant bint) was after a job..clearly, artlessly and cravenly..every word was a play to the gallery...and, most tellingly, it fuckin worked. She sums the place up perfectly.

    Not a place I'd want to waste any serious thought over..in..out..take the piss, anything more dignifies the place beyond its saccharine self-serving status.

    ReplyDelete
  147. BB - "the French being cheese-eating surrender monkeys ".... well the rednecks actually on that particular insult.

    Used to write in broken english for them, Eye- Rack time, got lots of insults but never THE hole in one of C-E S M ! NN !

    ReplyDelete
  148. James that Martin Kettle article is just jaw droppingly amazing, has everyone at the Guardian lost whatever sense they had?

    ReplyDelete
  149. I don't have a stance on French martial prowess..can't have an opinion on everything..although I liked Phil Silvers in Carry on Follow that Camel

    anyway..

    What's the current historical standing of 'the myth of the French Resistance'? I believe there were once mutual accusations of revisionism..did it ever go to penalties?

    ReplyDelete
  150. HERE'S A QUOTE

    #We live in a culture where the contorted body of a tortured criminal is an important signifier of the human condition… It has short-circuited natural human thoughts and feelings into a dead-end chase after the transcendent rather than the immanent.

    If we want a signifier for the human condition, imagine the culture we would live in now if, instead of a dead corpse on an instrument of torture, our signifier was a child staring in wonder at the stars.#

    http://maxdunbar.wordpress.com/

    ReplyDelete
  151. Jen - Yeah, I did me a comedy double-take.

    Absolutely un-be-fucking-lievable.

    We're probably heading into one of the most savage and destructive periods in living memory, but, you know, it's OK coz Dave's a pretty good egg.

    FFS.

    (Your comment on there made me chuckle though!!)

    ReplyDelete
  152. jenn

    Just read it. Better tell monkeyfish and Hank to stay away from it - they'll implode!

    Is kettle angling for a gong do you think?

    ReplyDelete
  153. Sheff

    "Is kettle angling for a gong do you think?"

    If that's a euphemism...then yes!!

    ReplyDelete
  154. To be honest Sheff I have no idea what he is angling for, it's like a drunken love letter, I think he will wake up on the floor in the morning wearing only his underpants and socks with a really bad feeling that he did something he shouldn't have.

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  155. "I think he will wake up on the floor in the morning wearing only his underpants and socks with a really bad feeling that he did something he shouldn't have".

    HAHAHAHAHA. Brilliant!

    Go-on, post that over there.

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  156. blimey that "thing" written by kettle is abhorant and pathetic who gives a flying fuck whether cameron writes notes to staff at downing street...the man is destroying public services, education, health and welfare......jesus the guardian has reached an all time low...

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  157. Jen

    Must have been thinking along the same lines, but we've got it covered both ways.

    On WADDYA:

    EvaWilt

    Yes, if anyone was still suffering from any delusions that The Guardian is likely to show itself to be a serious publication, read Martin Kettle and - what? - not weep, for sure.

    Vomit? Poke your own eyes out? Go and assault a random stranger with a damp tissue?

    It is embarrassing tosh of such bone-melting banality and brain-addling sycophancy that you would have to be a mollusc to fully appreciate it drivelling awfulness.

    This is a Guardian star writer telling us how lovely David Cameron is because he has lovely manners and clean fingernails and lovely pink cheeks.

    This is not just putting on a pedestal someone who behaves like an office equipment salesman, this is squirming hagiography on such an epic scale that there are still trails of slime clinging to the text.

    Oh, well.

    Forget about the articles on poor-bashing for fun and profit and the DWP having strenuous bedroom frolics with Atos and A4E.

    Brace yourselves for five years of prime ministerial grooming techniques and cuff-link catalogues.

    The Guardian will hit rock bottom with just a slight sigh, a little giggle and a small gasp.

    It pants have been round its ankles for years.

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  158. LOL Jenn!

    What a disturbing image, though....

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  159. Which should ensure the sudden death of tnetennba.

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  160. You will just have to be more sneaky Atomboy. ;)

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  161. Nah, it tends to follow an established pattern now.

    Post nothing for weeks or months, then think there might be something worth a hundred or two words, so set up a new persona.

    Find that The Guardian is still a wank-fest and get banned or pre-moderated after about a dozen posts.

    Write email to Seaton or Rusbridger saying they are fuckwits.

    Do something else for a few months.

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  162. We all need a hobby Atomboy.

    I was thinking of posting the exact opposite of what I think for a day that might be fun and I don't suppose it would lead to a banning.

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  163. We live in a culture where the contorted body of a tortured criminal is an important signifier of the human condition… ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    having realised this is on my own a long time ago is why i never watch movies,, TV or read fiction,,
    ~~~~~~~~~
    ""It has short-circuited natural human thoughts and feelings into a dead-end chase after the transcendent rather than the immanent.""

    can anyone put this is kidsspeak for me ??

    to add to the first statement another equally significant signifier is inconsequential bling frippery and bagatelles,,which i have also avoided ,,

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  164. Jen - Yeah, I once - oh, years ago now - tried to do that.

    It basically meant trying to follow the CiF ideology or typing whatever shit was in your brain at that particular moment.

    I think I managed about three posts before I took my avatar behind the shed and strangled it.

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  165. Kettle was the most spineless of Blair worshipers/apologists for years. He set a new Gold Standard for simpering, fawning, boot-licking sycophancy--a fact that I never tired of pointing out BTL and which the mods, ever responsive to the emotional needs of their hot-house orchids/scribblers, never tired of deleting.

    I wrote a rueful obituary for The Graun 2 years ago on my blog. You lot are just catching up...

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  166. Came back home - read Kettle - swooned in horror.

    No answer from Bella I see - have to try new tack.

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  167. misharialadwani

    I think you are right. We cannot quite get ourselves unstuck from the squeezy caresses and sputum kisses of The Guardian.

    Peter Bracken had it right, too, when he said we are not so entirely disinterested - or uninterested, as both could apply here - in CiF.

    Actually, I think Pete, as I call him, gets pretty much everything right.

    Apparently, Zizek had to phone him to apologise for getting everyhting wrong.

    Well done, Petey Boy.

    Take a pat on the head.

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  168. Just turned over to Question Time and some poor lass explained that she is on JSA and HB and asked the government dick why she should face losing her home because her HB will be cut since she has been on it for 12 months.

    He replied that everyone should make a contribution and when she asked how her being homeless would help the country he just waffled. (She did tell him to get a grip).

    The labour guy then started talking about mortgage payers.

    The audience didn't seem that bothered either.

    It is like a little middle class game they are all playing, they have gone past the point where anything that isn't part of the game matters and that includes empathy and just plain decency.

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  169. Only someone who has none, would describe principles as "prissy".

    "I write as a supporter of the left."

    Really? Well I wouldn't know because I had to read each sentence of your article three times and I still couldn't make head nor tail of it.

    However that's obviously because I'm a fuckwit.

    Although, hang on a minute,I can understand George Orwell perfectly well.....

    Anyway, just to clarify another point raised:

    My dictionary (Collins Concise Dictionary &Thesaurus has this:
    polemic 1 a fierce attack on or defence of a particular opinion, belief etc; anti-capitalist polemic.
    polemical 2 of or involving dispute or controversy.

    In what way do "1984" and "Animal farm" not qualify to be termed polemics or should I have said polemical under this definition?

    They are both attacks on beliefs aren't they?

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  170. Post nothing for weeks or months, then think there might be something worth a hundred or two words, so set up a new persona"""

    some one most have pinched your style then,,cos i see loads of "posts among the first half dozen of a new contributer",,( three in 48hrs a week or so ago) and they often remind me of you
    certainly way more often than every few weeks,,

    although i know your not the only one doing it,,and no one can ever know for sure with these things,,although the recent forthright posts about these posting habits from you have totally aligned with my expectations,,except the "every few weeks or months bit",,
    i would say troll watching changed its appeal somewhat after the uk fun party ,,

    on a similar note has anyone else noticed giyus sans cynic posts lately ??,,they dont get deleted cos they are not quite so obvious,,

    oh yeah another thing ,, ,, who WAS the troll that was not Monkeyfish ?,, some one must know.,
    and since its turned out to be the biggest splash with the most ripples ever maybe they can now take credit for that jolly jape,,

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  171. although i know your not the only one doing it,,


    ears burning Mish ?

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  172. Can everyone stop calling themselves fuckwits, it is really upsetting me.

    You are all prize fuckwits, revel in the achievement of being better than the average fuckwit.

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  173. @chekov,,i would take polemic to be characterised as loud blunt and unsubtle,,which Animal Farm is not,,

    ps Mish,,your post was not here when i wrote my
    troll waffle,,

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  174. 3p4

    There are one or two posters - I cannot remember names because I am useless at that in real life, let alone this Mickey Mouse pretend one - who sometimes remind me of me, so it could be them.

    Depends whether I am trying to be bland and inconspicuous to keep under the radar, maybe.

    However, until a week or so ago, it had been a few months as far as I am aware. I really don't keep it in y head because I can honestly say CiF is too unimportant to me now.

    Post, don't post, have a flurry and give up - who really gives a shit?

    I had forgotten all about UK fun party.

    Didn't I have a barney with Seaton and get banned or something?

    One of them may have been Scherfig, but again, names are a bit terra incognita for me, but someone else will know.

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  175. Someone just used the word polemic in the Kettle thread, is it going to be one of those words that follows me around until I start using it because it is really going to be difficult for me to slot it into everyday conversation.

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  176. Have a good night folks.

    Will check in tomorrow after the Guardian posts the inevitable, 'George Osborne is the finest specimen of masculine, manly-manliness in the whole wide world, and is an unparalleled embodiment of English heroism - *swoon*' follow up article!!

    Should be a cracker...

    Night!

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  177. @chekov,,i would take polemic to be characterised as loud blunt and unsubtle,,which Animal Farm is not,,
    Well, maybe you would but "loud blunt and unsubtle" aren't the words used to define the word polemic in my dictionary.

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  178. catch and release,,thanks for playing the game,,
    ciao,,

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  179. Well, maybe you would but "loud blunt and unsubtle" aren't the words used to define the word polemic in my dictionary


    but are you not (presently) trying to 'characterize' rather than 'specify' the meaning of the word ??
    for instance does satire mean the same as polemic ?

    polemic 1 a fierce attack on or defence of a particular opinion, belief etc; anti-capitalist polemic.
    polemical 2 of or involving dispute or controversy.LOUD BLUNT ETC

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  180. ...it is really going to be difficult for me to slot it into everyday conversation.

    You have to a at least a bit inventive.

    What are we having for dinner?

    I'm not sure yet, but I though maybe paella with some polenta and I could add some turmeric and polemic.

    Yeah, sounds great. When will it be ready?

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  181. Oh Atomboy if people don't have to understand it then I am fine, 'those bloody polemics I wish they would just go back home' will work.

    My dinner times are not quite like that though, I tend to offer sandwiches or toasties.

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  182. I'm not trying to "characterize" anything.
    You are the one "characterizing" the word polemic not me.

    By all means put your own interpretation on the word but you've got this completely the wrong way around. I am trying to be specific about what the word polemic means.

    "Does satire mean the same as polemic?"

    What's that got to do with anything?

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  183. @chekhov, @3p4

    'Polemic' to me implies one-sided argument in favour of a case, and also implies a strong opinion. Not 'on the one hand' and 'but on the other'.

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  184. May as well just cut out the middle-man and use wiki:

    A polemic (pronounced /pəˈlɛmɪk/) is a variety of argument or controversy made against one opinion, doctrine, or person. Other variations of argument are debate and discussion. The word is derived from the Greek polemikos (πολεμικός), meaning "warlike, hostile".

    A polemic is a form of dispute, wherein the main efforts of the disputing parties are aimed at establishing the superiority of their own points of view regarding an issue. Along with debate, polemic is one of the more common forms of dispute. Similar to debate, it is constrained by a definite thesis which serves as the subject of controversy. However, unlike debate, which may seek common ground between two parties, a polemic is intended to establish the supremacy of a single point of view by refuting an opposing point of view.

    Polemic usually addresses serious matters of religious, philosophical, political, or scientific importance, and is often written to dispute or refute a widely accepted position.

    _______

    Of course, once you know what it is commonly agreed to mean, you can apply whatever meaning you choose to it.

    To me, it means boiled beef and cabbage.

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  185. i agree with peter,,
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`
    "What's that got to do with anything?"

    lots of posters seem to to find me unfathomable,,cest la vie,, forget it,,

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  186. @Jenn

    Or "where are those Polemics flocking here from Eastern Europe coming from?"

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  187. i also agree with the wiki,,i thought that is what i was saying,,but shorter,,

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  188. Eastern Polemia Spike you bigot. ;)

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  189. hope all these posts dont make me look egocentric ,,

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  190. PeterJ: with all due respect, I'm not on about what the word polemic "implies" to you I'm merely using my judgement to understand what it means from referring to my dictionary to find out.

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  191. AB: misharialadwani

    I think you are right. We cannot quite get ourselves unstuck from the squeezy caresses and sputum kisses of The Guardian.

    Depends how you view it, and this is a point where I think Peter Bracken's view upthread (Simply that if you've something to say, why not use the platform [CiF] to say it? That's what it's there for.) might not be 100%.
    It's a sandpit, not a proper platform. I drop in and out: other sites are far better for proper debate and discussion,others are more informative: hell other sections of the same paper's site are better at both. CiF's function is to generate page-hits (and get free user-generated content). Way,way more heat than light.
    If you want serious serious stuff, deep thinking, extended and 'proper' debate, look elsewhere (I do), if you want wittier,funnier stuff,look elsewhere (I do): it's a playground and we should all see it as such; swaggering bullies, wiseacres, little huddled cosy cliques,nice guys'n'gals, nasty uns, and nonentities, overseen by poxy monitors and heavy-handed, perhaps perverse 'teachers' (with their pets).
    MF has it right by recognising its limits and artifice. It's a sideshow.
    If you want to change things it's not the medium. If you want more than knockabout stuff and over-simplification it's not the place to go.
    It has its place,to be sure,but some are, to use a word in vogue, 'deluded' as to its significance. In the morass are some cracking posts, some killer one-liners, some salient points well made, but they are very much the exception (many of those exceptions posted by past and present company). I can live with that. At the end of the day, has anyone's head really been turned by a CiF dialogue, anyone's views been shifted much? I doubt it.
    It's a place to rant, to blow hard, to speak sense and shite in the same sentence. Piss in the tent,piss out of it, it's but one tent in a fucking huge virtual field, while the real world trundles on.
    Fuck, I'm tired.

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  192. Spike

    Just when Sue thought she had been rehabilitated and could come out of the house without being stoned, you have to bring that up.

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  193. @chekhov

    Sorry, didn't mean anything by it. I was agreeing with you, actually, that Orwell could easily be described as a polemicist on some subjects.

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  194. Alisdair, what are these better sites?

    Don't worry I am not going to crash them but I haven't looked around enough to find any at my level.

    Obviously I have less political knowledge than the majority on UT and less stamina than those on Cif but I would like a few more sites to read and learn from.

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  195. Alisdair

    Absolutely right. It's a or what you might see and hear in a quarter-way reasonable pub over the course of a week.

    It is the fact that some people think it is giving them a platform which will be noticed by anyone important which is so funny.

    At the end of the day, has anyone's head really been turned by a CiF dialogue, anyone's views been shifted much? I doubt it.

    No, but that is the thing which everyone trots out to try to prove its worth.

    It probably actually makes those who think that the voices in their heads are the real ones and everyone else is damned more entrenched in their delusions, once someone pops up their little hand and says: "Oooh, I think that, too, so we must be right, mustn't we?"

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  196. UT Competition No 27289

    The missing word round:

    It's a or what you might see and hear in a quarter-way reasonable pub over the course of a week.

    Is it

    A An elephant
    B A merry-go-round
    C A sewage farm
    D Assorted collected nose-mess
    E A crisp new £20 note

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