11 July 2010


Joyful Stars by Chidi Okoye

The problem with people who have no vices is that generally you can be pretty sure they're going to have some pretty annoying virtues.
-Elizabeth Taylor


  1. This comment has been removed by the author.

  2. Today, ladies an gents is the day.

    From our wonderful companion in Spain, here's this

    Cheers Martillo. Let's have a good one.


  3. Saw a girl down in the West Country, she had enormous tis, all her tee shirt said was "I wish these were brains". Stunning.

  4. Night, tinme I fucked off to bed


  5. Bonjour all fuckwits, oral history project continues :)
    Powerful ceremony 18h 9 july in caen,anniversary of liberation, band, veterans, centred around oration by one Resistant and presentation of Legion d'Honneur to another.

  6. I really am goimg to throw up if I stay any longer

  7. Goodnight Bitters, Bonjour frogz.


    Nice one on the kids and happiness thread.

  8. Morning all

    Work again today, but there's a lovely fresh breeze promising to keep the heat in check.

    Nighty-night Bitterweed - looks like twas a long night.... you're going to regret posting that cheezy Eagles tribute choon when you wake up!

    Was so k-nackered last night, I was incapapble of speech let alone typing in a cogent fashion..... missed a larf by the looks of it.

  9. Just to cheer everyone up.....


    Laurel and Hardy singing in the Blue Ridge Mountains of Virginia!

  10. Morning all

    Bitterweed, you trooper! Your head is going to hurt later! :o)

    Frogz - sounds very moving. So important that these things are passed through the generations.

    LaRit - have a good day. There is a fine mist of rain here near Gatwick. Very refreshing...

  11. Man oh Man,

    am I nervous about the big game today. I cannot call it at all. Everyone is banging on about Spain but they've flattered to deceive in a couple of games whereas the Netherlands have been consistent.

    They passed their one major test against Brazil with an A+ showing supernatural confidence and calm after going 1 down.

    As I called it before the tournament, van Bommel and de Jong have been outstanding, protecting that dodgy defence and will have to continue it today.

    The result I think will depend on which Spain turn up today, I see the Netherlands continuing with the icy resolve.

    Anyway, if you hear a loud splash about 10.30 pm tonight, that's me along with thousands of others jumping into the Leiden canals in celebration.

    Hup Holland Hup!!!

    Peter Bracken,

    disappointed to see you didn't answer my question yesterday.

  12. #disappointed to see you didn't answer my question yesterday. #

    But not surprised. Maj.Malaprop xcan't substantiate any of his claims. That's why he's such a fan of the thoughts of M.Gove.

  13. Henry Porter this morning:

    "I must have been on magic mushrooms because at a party last week I heard myself praise home secretary Theresa May and justice secretary Ken Clarke and then watch a group of left-leaning friends, who cheered Labour's victories of the past, nod in agreement. Despite George Osborne's budget, despite what we know is coming down the pike in the way of spending cuts, unemployment, the erosion of pensions and the possibility of a deeper recession, the coalition is popular, or at least tolerated, because the daily exercise of power seems more humane, reasonable and commonsensical than at any time during the last five years under Tony Blair and Gordon Brown."

  14. Morning all

    it seems the Graun is spewing out support for the government from the likes of Kettle and Porter two "journalists" that can't really be called bastions of any ideology really.....they flit around licking the backside of whoever is in power....

  15. @Sheff

    Good response to that bollocks from northred.

  16. Found on the local council website, at least they're up front about the renumeration...

    Love Music Festival is looking for 2 music practitioners, one based in the Scottish Borders region and another in the Western Isles, to work alongside some of the UK’s leading animateurs.

    Display Salary Information:-

    Salary Information
    Salary will be between £0 and £0

  17. morning all!

    another great picture - although it could just be me but my first thought was 'bikini bottoms'.


    your grace - given my betting jinx, have gone for a draw at 90 minutes, so we're pretty much guaranteed a result in normal time. can't do any more than that...

    (have gone for xabi alonso to score, too, so you are safe on set-pieces from the spanish...)

  18. barbara ellen's piece would make me bang my head on the table but i already have a bit of a headache...

  19. ... we should all feel a little sick. I didn't, but after reading it, I did.

  20. I haven't read Ellen since her jaw-dropping piece about how a female teacher shagging an underage boy was completely different to a male teacher shagging an underage girl. The woman's an idiot.

    A few days before leaving on holiday, when I have unfeasible quantities of work, my driver-side window motor's decided to give up the ghost. Apparently all the scrapyards are closed on Sunday (when I would have thought they could do a roaring business), so I'll have to go tomorrow. I'm not about to put an extortionately-expensive brand-new part in a 15-year-old car. Why do we need electric windows anyway? I was always quite capable of winding down a bloody window.

    When I was a young lad and it was all fields round here, a mate of mine whose dad had two motorcycle shops and I worked out that a £500 Honda would cost £2,000 to build using spare parts. I think that extortion's probably got worse since. I checked the cost of a new electronic wing mirror recently: £160! Thieving bastards! Got one for £25 at the scrapyard.

  21. Peter J

    Where has northred been spouting bollocks?

    They are normally pretty sensible, if a bit dour.

  22. Duke

    according to Italian Tv (not much of a guarentee I know) the cephalod's Italian and from Tuscany...if this is the case my guess is he was bought off by the spanish..

  23. jen
    I think the bollocks refers to the article...doesn't it? but then again I'm a fuckwit so what do I know ;0)

  24. Ah I see gandolfo, I'm a bit slow today (for a change). Doh

  25. Paul Baba(c) MtE was born in the UK, but raised in Germany...source

  26. turminder
    link is in Italian I raise you 1 paella and scampi in a basket.....
    Off course who gives a shit really...

  27. I'd have to see the invoices gandolfo : )

    Do you need an octopassport? N' that article seems to think Spain have already won? Unless google translate deciveth me...

  28. I've been puzzling over Henry Porter's article especialy where he says:

    I heard myself praise home secretary Theresa May and justice secretary Ken Clarke and then watch a group of left-leaning friends, who cheered Labour's victories of the past, nod in agreement.

    I've been trying to work out what Porter means by his 'left leaning friends'.

    I think he means the type who will unabashedly buy a jar of Kalamata olives from the shelf rather than from the deli counter at Waitrose.

    They'll also have shares in a Dorset local owned micro-brewery which specialises in artisan, hand crafted ales. You know, as a means of "giving something back" to the community that they have priced out of the local housing market with their third home in the area.

    And of course, the local city runaround will be converted to LPG.


    do us a favour and stick a tenner on Spain to win will you?


    Paulie Octopus is for losers. Mani the Parakeet is the real deal I tell you.

  29. turminder
    google doth deceive the article says that octopus got predictions right for germany apart from when they played spain in the semi final.....no mention of today....

  30. @jenn

    Ah, my sentence construction clearly needs work - the bollocks was entirely Porter's. Ta gandolfo.

  31. duke
    i feel more sympathy for a bird they seem higher up the evolutionary scale than a cephalod I'm with Mani going for the dutch..

    apparently there's a croc doing preds as well ate the spanish chicken again an animal that hasn't evolved since prehistoric times doesn't really imbue confidence....however wouldn't argue with harry if it came down to it......

  32. Hi all.

    Breaking my cast-iron rule against commenting on football:

    The last two lines of the first stanza of the Dutch national anthem (arguably the oldest in the world and with which several players seem to have some difficulty) is

    den Koning van Hispanje
    heb ik altijd geëerd.

    or in other words:

    The king of Spain
    I have always honoured.

    So, Spain it must be then.

  33. hey Peter
    how are things...? ok i hope...

  34. @gandolfo

    Wrestling with an Internet connection that's up and down like a yoyo, but otherwise bearing up.

  35. peter
    I'm just battling with 36° I kind of stop functioning....bit like your internet connection!

  36. medve

    au contraire

    The 'honouring of the King of Spain' refers to the initial loyalty of the leaders of the Dutch Revolt before all round Spanish nastiness led them to fight the Spanish.

    And the Dutch won. So there ;)

    And anyway, there's only one 'King of Spain'- Ashley Giles

    I can't believe I am defending William of Orange as a Celtic fan.....I'm off to say 6 hail mary's and 12 our fathers and hope thauma and scherfig will forgive me.....

  37. Duke

    For that you get the wagging finger from me instead of thauma.

  38. Da Duke:

    Who do you think God is backing? Has He been seen in William Hill's? I'd have thought He'd have gone for Brazil, what with Kaka's prayer meetings and all.

  39. Afternoon all

    I hope the Dutch will thrash their former colonial masters tonight-irrespective of the predictions of my namesake!!

    @Duke-i hope the dykes of Holland are gaily festooned with orange fairy lights in anticipation of what i hope will be a Dutch victory.I,ve heard even the Brown Cafes of Amsterdam have got the bunting out.

    btw was Barbara Ellen a cheerleader in a former life?Nothing between the ears at all!

  40. Eeeuugh. I'd advise a stiff drink before approaching Khaled Diab's 'neo Nazi' thread.

    As for Barbara Ellen's quality piece, Paul - nuff said.

  41. @Your Grice

    As we might say, it is a little more complicated than that. For one thing, the Willem van Nassau, to whom this little number refers is not the same as the late 17th century William of Orange, who may have become king of England and Scotland (together with Mary and before the Act of Union). Secondly, if i have not declared as such before, i am a republican, in the proper Dutch sense: the building on the Dam in Amsterdam is a stadhuis (city hall), not a fucking royal palace. To press this point home, and hopefully for your amusement, some alternative lyrics:

    Wilhelmus van wantrouwe
    ben ik, van besmet bloed,
    den vaderland berouwe
    en kanker wordt mijn dood. (doet)
    Een Prinse zonder franje
    ben ik genuanceerd,
    den Koning van Ollanda
    heb ik altijd ontbeerd.

  42. MsChin,

    Hadn’t realised you were Irish, apologies for that!


    So it’s a battle between competing ecclesiologies? Transubstantiationist Spain between anti-Transubstantiationist Netherlands?

    The mind boggles at the commentary tonight:

    Clive Tyldesley: “Xavi. Iniesta to Busquets. Great crossfield pass there by Busquests encompassing almost literally the efficacious signs of grace, instituted by Christ and entrusted to the Catholic Church, by which divine life is dispensed to us.” But intercepted there by van der Weil.

    Kevin Keegan: "To be fair Clive, does van der Weil’s interception not definitively prove Luther’s view that “It is not the doctrine of transubstantiation which is to be believed, but simply that Christ really is present at the Eucharist? Therefore it is an absurd and unheard-of juggling with words, to understand "bread" to mean "the form, or accidents of bread," and "wine" to mean "the form, or accidents of wine." Why do they not also understand all other things to mean their forms, or accidents? Even if this might be done with all other things, it would yet not be right thus to emasculate the words of God and arbitrarily to empty them of their meaning?”

    Tyldesley: “What’s this? Ninety minutes on the clock and Manchester United haven’t scored? They have to score, they always score… Sheringhaaaaammmmm! Erm, Is this 1999?”

  43. Duke

    Nah, I'm English actually, just stepping up for thauma in her absence ..

  44. medve,

    leuk, prima gedaan!


    everything is orange. If the Netherlands win, I think the Amsterdam red light district will have its best business since the Tartan army descended on it a couple of years ago.

  45. Da Duke:

    But will Keegan finally repeat his immortal words of yesteryear?

    There'll be no siestas in Madrid tonight.

  46. Morning all,

    I really can't call the game today.

    On the one hand, I think the Dutch have been consistent, strong and effective, but on the other, I don't think Spain have properly turned it on yet!!

    I also think that, other than perhaps against Brazil, the Dutch defence hasn't been really tested yet, whereas Spain survived a free-scoring Germany.

    Maybe the Pipster's 365 account is as good an indicator as any....

  47. Morning all :-)

    Do I understand correctly that today's match will not obly be between Holalnd and Spain, but between Paul the octopus and mani the parakeet, as well?

  48. It's 1999?

    You are my Solskjaer
    My Ole Solskjaer
    You make me happy
    When skies are grey
    And Alan Shearer
    Was fucking dearer
    So please don't take
    My Solskjaer away!

  49. Kettle, Cohen, Porter et al seem to have cought some malign mental ans spiritual contagion. It's like the inquisition on Cif - the celebration of pain and suffering in the name of National purification.

  50. @Spike:was that a Stretford End chant?

    My favourite was this, from the Magpies at a derby match with Sunderland.(To the tune of "Daydream Believer" by The Monkees):

    Cheer up Peter Reid
    Oh what can it mean?
    To a, fat Mackem bastard
    And a shit football team!

  51. Yesterday an Iranian woman, Sakineh Mohammadi Ashtiani, was saved by global protests from being stoned to death.

    But she may still be hanged -- and, meanwhile, execution by stoning continues. Right now fifteen more people are on death row awaiting stoning in which victims are buried up to their necks in the ground and then large rocks are thrown at their heads.

    The partial reprieve of Sakineh, triggered by the call from her children for international pressure to save her life, has shown that if enough of us come together and voice our horror, we may be able to save her life, and stop stoning once and for all. Sign the urgent petition now and send it onto everyone you know -- let's end this cruel slaughter NOW!


    Sakineh was convicted of adultery, like all the other 12 women and one of the men awaiting stoning. But her children and lawyer say she is innocent and that she did not get a fair trial -- they state her confession was forced from her and, speaking only Azerbaijani, she did not understand what was being asked of her in court.

    Despite Iran's signing of a UN convention that requires the death penalty only be used for the "most serious crimes" and despite the Iranian Parliament passing a law banning stoning last year, stoning for adultery continues.

    Sakineh's lawyer says the Iranian government "is afraid of Iranian public reaction and international attention" to the stoning cases. And after Turkey and Britain's Foreign Ministers spoke out against Sakineh's sentence, it was suspended.

    Sakineh's brave children are leading the international campaign to save their mother and stop stoning. Massive international condemnation now could finally stop this sickening punishment. Let's join together today across the world to end this brutality. Sign the petition to save Sakineh and end stoning here:


    In hope and determination,

    Alice, David, Milena, Ben and the whole Avaaz team


    Iranians still facing death by stoning despite 'reprieve', The Guardian

    Britain condemns planned Iran stoning as 'medieval', AFP

  52. @chekhov


    We had a Daydream Believer chant too with "Cheer up Kevin Keegan".

    One of my favourites is a current one:

    Park, Park, wherever he may be
    He eats dog in his own country
    It could be worse, he could be Scouse
    Eating rat in a council house

    Not very PC, but excellent anyway.

  53. One from the Mighty Hibs. : )

    IN YOUR GORGIE SLUMS (Gorgie is where the rival Hearts play...)

    In your Gorgie Slums
    You rake in the bucket for something to eat
    You find a dead rat and you think it's a treat
    In your Gorgie Slums

  54. And in an even more personal vein:

    My old man said be a City fan
    I said fuck off, bollocks, you're a cunt

  55. You want non PC? We've got that at Easter Road..

    To the tune of 'The Sash'

    My father was an Orangeman,
    He wore an Orange sash,
    I used to take it off of him and shove it up his ass.
    It was many years ago, my friend,
    And on this very day, I told him he could fuck his queen!
    And I joined the IRA!

    NB views expressed in this chant are not necessacerily those of Xuss Enterprises ; )

  56. @Turm: what's the tune of the "Sash"?

  57. At Maine Road and Eastlands we have always eschewed crudity, much preferring the musical stylings of Richard Rodgers and Lorenz Hart.

  58. TurminderX:

    "Salary Information
    Salary will be between £0 and £0"

    Yup. That's about the long and tall of it - pretty much my paypacket for the last 15 months... looks like we are all returning to slavery....


    Thanks for the good wishes - it was lovely this morning but by the time it got to 12:30 - it was baking. Still, for once (irrespective of the above) my pay for the weekend is respectable.... just enjoying a cool cerveca .... and looking fwd to putting on some nice rocking tunes to cheer me up before the Final (and pissing off my twat of a neighbour - because he can't moan this early in the afternoon) HA!

  59. Here it is Checkov. Starts @ about 20 sec. Warning some viewers may find these sounds and images offensive.

    I ken LaRit, I earned less than 8k last year, + 5k work in lieu of rent. I have a grand lifestyle, but can't afford nice things/holidays for the kids... Am Applying for another job, I don't reall want it, but needs must...

  60. Gandolfo:

    "i feel more sympathy for a bird they seem higher up the evolutionary scale than a cephalod I'm with Mani going for the dutch.."

    Parrots and Octopi have the same level of intelligence - but Cephlapods also enjoy the same protection as Primates (as I understand)I reckon the tentacled one has the inside info!

  61. Turminder:

    God - I can appreciate that one.... it's taken me ten long years to go in a big fat circle - earning less than the 7K I usually took home 12/13 years ago....the taking another job is a hard one - for me, all my efforts were geared towards music, every last penny, took shitty jobs and all the rest of it with me eye on the singing.

    Weirdly something tells me that I never wanted that narrow world in the first place - after singing in some good companies, I got really fucked off with the Toffs talking to me after I'd poured my guts out, like I was some kind of musical 'pet'. I had too many musical interests outside of Opera - and it is such a monumental archaic bore most of the time peopled by folk with egos that are about servicing their fucking 'marketable' image - the money would have been a nice bonus for me, but, I've stuck to my inner voice and hey! it sounds like a big fat cliche, I'm poorer materially, but in terms of learning, understanding I've never felt more complete.... and it's still evolving.

  62. This one's for Bitterweed (if he's still alive after last night!)and anyone else of course....

    Lindstrom (Brennan Green (from Brooklyn) remix)

    Love Brennan Green..... he's even squeeszed in a touch of Talking Heads... very clever...

    Not to be listened to on shitty laptop speakers!

  63. Oh, the link would help...

  64. LaRit

    parrots can speak....defo more evoluted....and the fact that it's been revealed that paul is infact paolo wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw 'im...;)

  65. Nope gandolfo octopi win hands (or tentacles) down, not that I want Paul to be right tonight. ;)

    On the Beeb they have just shown the Dutch all packed into New Zealand Square, amazing site although I wouldn't want to be in the middle of that crowd.

  66. it's taken me ten long years to go in a big fat circle...

    Right back at ya, LaR. My current job is the first time I've earned an hourly rate better than the job I quit in '96, to go to uni. Luckily I can nurture my inverted snobbery, and I live a very vivid life in my imagination...

  67. Evening all

    Had a nice afternoon out, now all set wiv me beer.

    I get the feeling I am the only one on this board supporting Spain.

    Philippa - who have you put money on? :p

    I look to Philippa as a kind of reverse Paul the Octopus...

  68. Leni.

    Recently, on here and on Waddya, and on many recent threads, such as MartynInEuropes piece today, you seem to be agitating for some kind of 'organising'.

    What does this involve. Are you talking about party politics or grassroots movements?

    Other than that enjoy the world cup evereyone. C'mon Holland.
    Has anyone noticed that BBC and ITV are both broadcasting it. I trust everyone will be watching the beeb. Good- sock it to the beeb haters.

  69. Evening all

    BB a reverse octopod is suely a squid/

    Shall I watch the match - haven't watched any of the others so far.
    Holland to win I say.

    La Rit

    The spiralling down for millions on the tail of the upward rush for others becomes more and more evident.

    Capitalism is hungry again - running out of other peoples debt to feed on - what next ?

    I'm in favour of Capitalist Cannibalism - they will start to eat each other next.

  70. ''and I live a very vivid life in my imagination...'' Are you actually a certain Belgium lady?

    In all seriousness someone has told Bru to use insect repellent due to her bitten legs but Bru has just told us she wears fake tan. Now I know from bitter personal experience that if you mix the two you can turn green. Should I warn her?

    On a lighter note - not - it seems that the coalition are starting their torture of the sick and disabled this autumn. Yes they are rolling out the ESA for all, starting in two parts of the country this autumn. It will take a full three to four years for them to re-assess everyone on incap. But the good news is they have addressed the concerns over ESA and the medicals by making them...harder. Yes they are now going to be even harsher - way to go fuckers.
    Good article in the New Statesman about Clegg. Basically saying he has always been a complete cock and he only pretended to be a bit left wing to win the party leadership.

    Its all too depressing for words.

    I haven't been around much and just wanted to know if anyone has heard from Deano? Wondered if he was ok.

  71. Anyone seen Deano?

    Hello Leni. Did you catch that link Sheff posted for the Joe Bageant article?

  72. Oops; princess beat me to it!

  73. Gandolfo:

    Parrots can speak, but Octopi do texture, colour and bubbles to communicate..... I don't think there's much difference.... but Parrots are more anthropomorphised (?) by us....not because they're less clever, just more accessible Octopuses live in the sea ;0)....


    "I live a very vivid life in my imagination..." me too! As well as in me own living room....in a way, I feel like Theolonius Monk when, after 8 years of being banned from performing after a drugs conviction, he sat and played and played and played and composed - the results are startling and incomparable. It's music which truly belongs to him.

  74. Evening all.

    I would like to hear from deano too.

  75. Chekhov:

    Am a little bit worried about Deano, was going to say something the other day. I really hope he's OK as I gathered some shit posted some obnoxious crap about him day before yesterday.....

  76. BB:

    You're not alone - I am too supporting Espana - in honour of my lovely neighbour Sonia ;-)

  77. I am pretty neutral about the result tonight or at least I was until the BBC talked the Spanish up so much.

    So come on Holland.

  78. That is one of the bad things about online forums, if someone disappears for a while, especially if they have been going through a troubling time like Deano has, you can't find out if they are ok.

    I hope someone here has the information to check on him.

  79. evening all - fourthed (or however many) on Deano - hope he's OK...

  80. BB
    "I look to Philippa as a kind of reverse Paul the Octopus"
    I know, hence the bet on it being a draw at 90 minutes, thus ensuring us a win in normal time. Wasn't risking anything else.

    Dirty f-ing match, so far. should have put money on van bommel not lasting the half...

  81. ...him and de jong, they're like the mitchell brothers of international football...

  82. Jen:

    Re: the Octopuses.... the fact that they have no skeleton and can squeeze themselves into little tiny spaces amazes me.... I saw little ones in the sea on the Costa Brava a few years back.... about a foot long....secretive and shy but very curious and once seen (they look at you and you know they are trying to work you out) never seen in the same light again.


    The trouble is, most of them won't even recognise themselves once they start eating each other.... that's not to say that even the Rich don't recognise what's going on. In all my working life, I've come across many people and I can say, hand on heart, that there are some very good, thinking and honest people who are extremely wealthy, who live within the bounds of privilege but who, I am certain, are as frustrated and experience deep pain at how the world is, as those of us at the bottom (I speak for myself only in terms of lack of material wealth - not mental or emotional immaturity)...I have no doubt there are people who, when push comes to shove, will not be manning the barricades, but who are watching the world go to hell in a handcart and refuse to stand by and see suffering increase.

  83. larit - fascinating creatures, indeed. it always seems a little unfair to eat something that could open its own jar of accompanying sauce...

  84. Maybe if someone has an email or a phone number for Deano they can give him a call/ drop him a line?

    La Rit - re the rich. Yeah I don't know any really rich people but I know a lot of people who are fairly well off. Many of them can see what is happening and are worried. They believe there should be more equality.

    This is one of the many areas you just cant win in if you are arguing with the right. If you are poor and you say you want more re-distribution and more equality you are 'envious'. If you are wealthy and say the same you are a 'hypocrite'. Both charges intended to shut down the argument and both pretty ridiculous. But it is one of the things I have seen over and over again on Cif and come across in real life

    Right off for now.

  85. octopi vs pipedi.....8 legs better than 2?
    has to be 2........also octopi taste better in paella.......

  86. De Jong should have been sent off for that kung-fu kick to the chest. And the replay on this last little altercation shows Schneijder clearly going for the groin, not the ball...

  87. gandolfo - agree with you, but their chances of finishing with double figures players on the pitch seems highly unlikely given the first half performance...

  88. BB - and van bommel could have gone for the challenge he got yellowed for

    french commentator, verbatim: carton! carton! carton rouge! carton, carton, carton, oh, monsieur l'arbitre....[heavy sigh when only a yello is produced]

    i like french commentary. they actually sound interested and stuff...

  89. PCC - you can't argue with a right-winger. Their very nature is such that they are not open-minded. Waste of time.

  90. Well, the half time analysis will be interesting.
    With no goals it will all be about yellow cards.

  91. PIPEDI???? bipedI!


    a dirty first half indeed that foot full on the chest made me groan a bit........

  92. I was fairly undecided, but probably more for the Netherlands, but after that first half, I'm firmly behind Spain. I think the ref forgot his red card in the dressing room.

  93. gandolfo - i thought it was a clever play on the 'pipster'! you would have got away with it...

  94. damm could delete I suppose ;)

    turncoat traitor! ;)

  95. To be fair to Webb though, it must be quite hard to decide on cardages when everyone's rolling around like they've been shot after every tackle....

  96. have risked the andrew brown thread, and in amongst the debate, this little cracker...

    freewoolly: Is God at heart a Spanish Catholic or Dutch Protestant? We will find out soon....

    bochi: And here was I thinking he was Octopus Dei.

  97. james - reckon the spanish pre-game talk involved something along the lines of "well, just hit the bloody deck, boys, van bommel's gotta go at some point..."

  98. in fact thought i was watching an episode ofhonk kong Phooey

  99. Folks... am pissed.... so much I want to say.... off out to the bar up the road (if i can get Mr. LaRit to move his Greek arse) to carry on watching the 2nd half....

  100. @La Rit: I don't think Deano would lose any sleep over someone having a pop at him on here.
    I was more worried about how he is coping with his recent bereavement.

  101. bugger - messed up C&P-ing in previous. should read:

    freewoolly: Breaking news: Paul the Octopus exposed as Calvinist! Knows result already...

    bochi: And here was I thinking he was Octopus Dei.

  102. seven cards already? much more of this and they can open their own branch of hallmark...

  103. Watching the match - I hadn't realised that rolling on the ground was such an integral part of football.

  104. match interlude:

    who wrote this???

    "Anyone is free to come on and have their say. Providing it is something reasonable, interesting or amusing and not just mordant criticism of everyone and his brother. Then obviously they'll get short shrift."

  105. BB - hehehehe. have been abandoned by usual footy-watching friends (even the welsh rugby fan has vanished) and DB has gone home to 'do laundry', such is her lack of interest in the game. am just trying to avoid getting embroiled in the AB thread, I know where such things lead.

    there's a cookie left. should really wait for return of DB. hmmmm. ethical dilemma.

  106. leni - nowadays they get marks for artistic impression as well.

  107. gandolof - hmmmmmmm. maybe if you put up the rest of the post...

  108. gandolfo... gosh, that's a really difficult one... think Philippa's right, need more information...

  109. come on Phil.......

    ok for you another part of the jewel:

    "As for this thread being banal - have you read some chat forums? Some seem to consist mainly of drunken incoherent ramblings with endless links to videoclips. Serious discussion takes the form of how many insults you can include in your post against the latest "enemy". "

  110. you and shaz such teases.....

  111. Unless it's the same person who wrote this:

    "In fact this particular thread is far more inclusive that some chat forums I could mention where the posters are always scratching each other's backs and slagging off anyone who doesn't agree with them or dares question their thought police.

    As for this thread being banal - have you read some chat forums? Some seem to consist mainly of drunken incoherent ramblings with endless links to videoclips. Serious discussion takes the form of how many insults you can include in your post against the latest "enemy"."

  112. shaz
    lurved the mumsnet link particularily the question about whether saying bless you is offensive to atheists.........WTF.....arghhhhhh

  113. gandolfo - there's some seriously scary stuff on that site. Worse than CiF!

  114. well xabi alonso's gone without scoring, so my bet365 record remains unblemishedly unwinning...

  115. shaz and THIS

    "Vasectomy - his body, his choice?" and what's with all the acronyms????

    .....one for Bindel me thinks....!

  116. @gandolfo

    I'm going to be in Spain for all of August, so anyway I have to get used to saying Spain were brilliant/were robbed. :-)

  117. ah. but the one on a draw at 90 minutes has come in. add that to my prediction of >2.5 yesterday (while basti-schatzi didn't score) and...i might even have broken even.

  118. gandlofo - and this one - good grief... don't understand the abbreviations tho...

  119. Spain deserve to win, I still want the Dutch to win!

  120. shaz
    what is DC? from what I recall it's some form of gynae intervention......

    this is classy sick shit shaz........

  121. Mumsnet is pure comedy gold.

  122. I think the D in everything stands for either dear or darling (I am betting they all say darling) so DC would be darling children.

  123. gandolfo... WTF?? Found this acronym translator - some *very* odd stuff there... although DC appears to be absent...

  124. Fucking hell, mumsnet is solipsism central isn't it? Odd shards of sanity in there drowned out by self-centred senses of entitlement.

  125. I am so glad I now know EWCM stands for egg white cervical muccous.

    Who the hell needs a cleaner four times a week for three hours?

    What are they getting up to of a night?

  126. Are they real life 'mums'?

    Are they permitted contact with children?

  127. Evening all

    Hope this match isn,t decided on penalties!

    @Jen-DC =Dead Cat :-)

    @Hi Shaz long time no 'see'.

  128. Hi Paul. It's looking more likely by the minute...

    Jen... I was trying not to think about EWCM. What the hell is it, anyway? And who the hell uses SWI??

  129. Woah - or maybe not! Well done Iniesta!

  130. I have no idea what EWCM is and I don't really want to, I am trying to imagine the kind of person who would have a conversation that needed an acronym for the phrase.

    Oh it's me. ;)

  131. jen - i now feel rather queasy...

    spain 1 up against ten men, 3 minutes to play. we can all go to bed soon, god willing...

  132. torres loks fucked, though...

  133. ...and that's it... sorry Nap!

  134. shaz, jen, phil


    makes my teeth itch........WTF!!!!!!!


    I'm upset now...... start your spanish phrases..........¡hicisteis un trabajo estupendo/fantástico/excelente/maravilloso!

  135. Better than penalties tho Paul?

  136. horrors!

    Oh well, at least it's over. I am spending tomorrow on the coach travelling down south. Best get an early night.

  137. well, good night all - and good hols, nap!

    hope his grace is OK.... may be chucking himself in a canal for quite different reasons than planned...

    and paul the octopus remains the king.

    night night!

  138. gandolfo - they've listed MIL (mother-in-law), but not MILF, which (I am reliably informed) means Mother I would Like to Fuck...

  139. Anyway in around 9 months time i reckon there will be a baby boom in Spain.No prizes for guessing who a lot of the boys will be named after.

  140. Paul - the Dutch goalkeeper???

  141. Good grief, the World Cup Final, which is supposed to showcase the best footballing talent on the planet and that's the best they can come up with.
    That ranks in the top ten of the worst football matches I've ever seen and I've seen a few!

  142. Well, that's that for another four years then....

  143. Night Shaz

    James 2012 should be good, Euro 2012 and the Olympics, I may never leave the house that summer.

  144. Credit to the Spanish though, their win was well deserved. They played the best football.

  145. !Visca el barca!

    Couldn't be happier about that. A victory for football.

    The first World Cup I watched was 1974, and me and my mates all fell in love with Cruyff, Neeskens, Johnny Rep, Robbie Rensenbrink, Haan, Krol and van Hanegem. Always had a soft spot for the Dutch ever since, but they pissed on their legacy tonight. Van Bommel is a thug ugly fucker, de Jong will be well at home in Moss Side, Matthiessen and Heitinga have dishonoured the names of Rijsbergen, Krol and Haan.

    I'm tired of listening to pundits on the BBC or the Graun whining about Spain winning games byh a single goal, as though that was always their game plan. The Spanish, by which I mean Barcelona, play the most exquisite football since, ironically, the great Ajax/Dutch sides of Rinus Michels.

    They have prevailed in this World Cup, and deservedly so, over negative, cynical anti-football wankers who regard Jose Mourinho as the high priest of the modern game.

    Fuck Mourinho, and all he stands for.

    The spirit of Barcelona has succeeded.

  146. The right team won - those boys earned that.

  147. Jesus, if ever there's a fuckwit shortage we know we can tune into five live after any big match and there they all are. Miserable boring thickos.

    Asta la vista baby !

  148. Jen,

    Yeah 2012's the next big one.

    Then it's all round my gaff for FIFA 2014, and then Rio 2016!!


  149. Good win for FC Barca, after the dullest game of football I've witnessed in a dog's age. Where's Nap off to?

    In the world of Marvel Comics (True believers!) DC is of course the 'Distinguished Competition' Just reading latest Hulks. GEn Ross is the Red Hulk, eh? Who didn't guess that? Wish JYD read here sometimes...

  150. (If I've got a 'gaff' my then, obviously...)

  151. Ah well, another 4 years until I next watch a football match.

    Down to dear old England tomorrow. Walking on the sussex downs, see some friends, see my dad, go to Brighton perhaps, perhaps also to London. There are some good museums and art galleries in London, shall look forward to it- although not the London air in summer and sardine can mentality! but still.

    Interesting fact. I used to live, when I lived with my dad, near a farm where George Orwell lived in in 1914-15, and provided the basis for the geography of Animal Farm. The local pub is called The Red Lion, like AF.

    Ah yes, Napoleon the pig. Of course, I have no tendencies like that.....

  152. turminderxuss
    There ought to be more written about Jack Kirby. I'm sure my childhhod would have been significantly different without him !

  153. That is a fuck of a journey by coach Nap, take a few books and I hope it isn't too hot.

  154. Hello Bitterweed, you are quite correct, the right team won and good for them.
    However I can't help feeling that this year's World Cup has been a bit of a "let down".
    Most of the matches were boring and apart from some spectacular goals, most matches were entirely boring!
    I can't think of a memorable event from this World Cup which might stick in my cerebral cortex to convey down the lifeline!

  155. Totally BW. I seriously feel Stan Lee is the 20th C Shakespeare. Corny, but so fecund! Read some comics guys! NN all. P xxx

  156. From yesterday - and I'm paraphrasing, speedkermit claims that the Graun's tendency to go big on police brutality, police misconduct or police negligence in failing to get a conviction in the murder of Ian Tomlinson is part of the Graun's attack on the public sector.

    Is it fuck.

    There's talk of the police numbers being cut by 20% or more as part of the coalition's "we're all in the shit together".

    There's not a fucking hope in hell that any copper will lose his job. The police federation is the most powerful trade union in the country. It grows ever stronger as other unions get weaker, and it loves to flex its muscles on the picket line, knowing that not a single union member in blue has ever been convicted of wrongdoing or violence.

    The police will become ever more important, and more cherished by the coalition, and the High Tories like Henry Porter who claim to despise the police state.

    Coppers are class traitors.

  157. Jen- never mind that, only 7-8 hours. When I was up in Stornoway I got the coach from Inverness to London- took 12 hours, overnight. Although I did fly fairly often.

    anyway I have just found out that the national gallery has a good collection of Dutch/Flemish renaissance/golden age art- the best in the world IMO(pity this is not reflected in the football team).

    There is also the obligatory large amount of Italian renaissance art- but I spit on that. There is only so many times one can tolerate seeing the madonna and child or the crucifixion.

    Italians were still under the shackles of the Catholic church, the Dutch had embraced Calvinism (with empty decoration free churches) so their artists were out of work- instead they often painted comission for the new Dutch bourgeoisie, what with Dutch being leaders of world trade at the time. The result, some of the most beautiful art in the world, Breughel, Vermeer van Dyck, Van Eyck, Rembrant, Reubens.

    (my Cif image is a Van dyck painting)

    Lol- I was going to put on my CV when applying for jobs my interest in dutch renaissance/golden age art, but didn't as it sounded too pretentious. But I think I will. I am proud to list it as my interest. Can't a young lad from humble origins be astounded by high arts and culture?

  158. Tend to agree chekhov. As I was in glorious Cornwall for two thirds of the tournament it softened the blow of how thoroughly ordinary England are as a norm, and the French meltdown and Italian shock exit also compounded the feeling that everyone's doing football for the wrong reasons these days. Somehow Spain winning the cup made my reflection slightly less than arriving at total dissinterest in the game.

  159. @turminder, nap et al - everyone's entitled to an opinion about the game obviously. Doesn't mean that all opinions are valid. I find golf boring, and tennis monotonous, but it keeps the middle classes enthralled.

  160. Oh come on Hank, you sound like the typical Guardianistas (that you hate) who seem to love taking jibes at the cops becuase they believe they are being radical, or 'all criminals are victims of society'.

    I think Speedkermit is right. The Graun hates the police. Of course there are issues with some aspects of the police, but I just don't see the police as social opressors. More so, where I live, I wish they would have a more visible and stronger presence.

    On the other hand they seem so inneffective. In a city like Glasgow there is masses of organised crime- do the police do much to handle it- I do not think so.
    If the cops gave me £12k a year I could bust half of the organised crime in this city.

  161. If the cops gave me £12k a year I could bust half of the organised crime in this city.

    Really, Nap? And you've only lived there for a few weeks! You must be a fucking genius! Have you considered officially joining the Strathclyde Police?

  162. @NapK - Orwell went to boarding school in Eastbourne (St Cyprians), and then on to Berkshire and Imperial Burma.

    He repudiated all those places. He despised most of the fellows he met. You, on the other hand, seem to have misunderstood all that Orwell said and think that Orwell would have found common ground with you.

    He wouldn't have done so. He'd have regarded you as a spiteful snob and intellectually mediocre.

  163. "I just don't see the police as social oppressors.."

    That's cos you're not working class, Nap, nor have ever been a worker. You're a fucking middle class liberal.

  164. Hank

    Good 22.44 post.Although i,m disppointed Holland didn,t win.But they didn,t deserve too.Was a crap final as far as world cup finals go.In fact i,ve been pretty unimpressed with the whole 2010 tournament.Would be great for further tournaments if some African teams could break the European/South American stranglehold.

    @Nap-have a good holiday.Do you know your way around in London?

  165. "From yesterday - and I'm paraphrasing,"

    Well you got that bit right

  166. To expand on that, you've never stood on a picket line, Nap. Nor have you ever been involved in a demonstration. Or been a football fan.

    The ordinary copper is a class traitor because he's drawn from the working class but he makes his money slapping down the organised, or disorganised, working class.

    The police were the vanguard of the Thatcherite attack on ordinary working people, and they'll never repair the damage done by those who waved £20 notes at striking miners.

  167. @speedkermit - get yourself another job or stop bellyaching about being criticised.

  168. No hank I never will be a worker cos I can't get a job. Fuck off, I even tried to get a job in Mcdonalds and I couldn't.

    Of course yes, I am sitting on my inheritance.- My life inheritance is less than the average annual salary in the UK though.

    Yes, I would like to be what is currently known as 'middle class' one day, all though I would never define myself as middle class becuase I beleive arbitary class divisions are anti human.
    I would prefer to live in a classless society.

    I have never ever said that I thought 'Orwell would have common ground' with me. All I did was mention I lived near where Orwell once lived and he stayed at a particular farm when he was young and I get this extraordinary outburst from you.

    So, I am a 'fucking middle class liberal' and you Hank are a hero of the working class? Fair enough getting into verbal fights with fellow old socialists, but having a rant at someone less than half your age based on a perceived construct of me, come on.
    You too hank can go to the national gallery (for free) and browse fine art. Are you not a hero of the working class. Ask Anne Tan about the working class intellectualism movement. My grandad was a miner, my dad and relatives on his side of the family all live in or around Sheffield, many at some stage, including my father, worked in the steel industry.

    By the defintions of the office of national statistic ABC1 scale, I am classed as 'underclass', namely long term unemployed and health problems, although I am over that now.

    As I said on the employment panel, my hands are idle, I just need a job.

  169. "To expand on that, you've never stood on a picket line, Nap. Nor have you ever been involved in a demonstration. Or been a football fan."

    I've never been in a picket line becuase I have never had a job, and I will very likely not get one, except perhaps one that is managed by a temping agency.

    1. I have been involved in a few demonstrations in my life, most recently a protest in favour of electoral reform (hardly storming the barricades, but I don't go about my life to appease Hank Scorpio.

    No, I am not particularly interested in football. So what.

  170. I'll stop bellyaching when people stop writing bullshit on topics about which they know fuck all

  171. Hank

    You can,t attack all the police all the time.To say they,re unpopular in some comminities is an understatement.But without them we,re all fucked.And there have been some police-community initiatives which have bought about some lessening of the tensions.But yeah there is still a way to go.

    I do agree with you that any reduction in resources for the police is unlikely.Especially given the potential for social unrest and increasing crime levels as the economic crisis bites.And maybe when the shit hits the fan the police will react exactly the way they did before.Doing the governments dirty work for them and cracking open innocent skulls in the process.But the fact of the matter is that the thin blue line is all that there is to protect the decent majority of working class people from the effects of total anarchy.For let,s not forget that whilst it,s the working classes who are the ones who get disproportionately shafted by government they are also the most likely to suffer if the lawless minority in their midst are allowed to completely run amok.

  172. @NapK - you'll be alright. You'll get looked after in the end. Your anger is artificial. You just need to grow up a bit, and stop sneering at people you imagine to be less educated than you.

    "As I said on the employment panel, my hands are idle, I just need a job."

    Don't ever be too proud to take a job, even if you think it's beneath you. And if you do take that job, don't let your co-workers think that it's beneath you and you're above them.

  173. I just don't see the police as social oppressors..

    So the people that menacingly parade down the streets are victims of society? Or the time I intervened when a gang of kids were hurling racial abuse at the Muslim children in Glasgow through the railings of the city's main mosque, and I intervened and told them it was a bad thing to do and they surroudned me and physically threatened me.
    Where these kids opressed by the police, which caused them to do such a thing, and then resulted in the police 'opressing' them again by restraining them.

    People have free will.
    I don't think so.

  174. "I'll stop bellyaching when people stop writing bullshit on topics about which they know fuck all."

    So you're going to observe a period of silence now then?

    Go on though, speedkermit, if you're talking about me, I'd love to know what you think I'm talking bullshit about.

    Your problem, kiddo, is that you and your mates all get to strut around in military kit, kick the shit out of innocent people with immunity, sit around in the canteen slapping each other on the back and tell each other you've done the right thing, and none of you ever get punished for the crimes you commit.

  175. Correction (I do think people have free will)

    Hank I will take any job going, but there aren't any or they have insane requirements, 'previous experience essnetial' for jobs that could be taught in two hours.

    Or I have to fork out for a health and safety certificate or food hygeine certificate for even the most basic of jobs.

    Or that most labour has been subvontracted out to employment agencies.

    Hank, your verbal exchange has been hilarious. I am going to bed.

  176. "Don't ever be too proud to take a job, even if you think it's beneath you. And if you do take that job, don't let your co-workers think that it's beneath you and you're above them."

    Yeah Nap, bend over and take whatever crap the Coalition eventually force you into. Wanting to make something better of yourself makes you a class traitor. Bullshit.

  177. Hank, you have yet to aim something at me tonight that's worth a crap.

    The Police Federation are 'the most powerful trade union in the country'? It's an ineffectual set of self-interested wankers. Jan Berry allowed Jacqui Smith to shaft us on £400 worth of back pay and then accepted a job at the fucking Home Office a month later. What even makes you think it's a trade union? We can't strike. We can't withhold our labour. There's a even an offence of 'causing disaffection among police officers' worthy of the Soviet Criminal Code. Stick to something you're good at, like careers advice.

  178. You'll claim that it's before your time, speedkermit, but the police played a pivotal role in creating the post-industrial society, at Wapping and Orgreave.

    It would force a hollow and bitter laugh from the most embittered leftie if the neo-liberals slashed 20% from the woodentops.

    It would be poetic justice.

    It won't ever happen of course. But if it did, there wouldn't be a trade unionist prepared to lose an hour's pay to support your cause.

  179. And what's this toss about police officers never getting convicted of anything? It happens all the time. Sounds like you prefer the Guardian narrative that the police are in cahoots with the IPCC. They don't report the mundane sackings and convictions and imprisonments because it upsets their trite theories that the police are untouchable. You really are a mug. Get out more.

  180. "You'll claim that it's before your time, speedkermit, but the police played a pivotal role in creating the post-industrial society, at Wapping and Orgreave."

    Wapping? Don't go comparing that bunch of bone-idle Luddite twats with the miners, at least they worked for a living.

  181. Of course the Fed can strike. It's chosen not to in return for pay deals better than any other public sector workforce ever since 1979.

  182. Still waiting for a conviction in the Tomlinson case....

  183. Now you're really showing your ignorance Hank.

    Section 91 of the Police Act 1996:

    Causing disaffection.— (1) Any person who causes, or attempts to cause, or does any act calculated to cause, disaffection amongst the members of any police force, or induces or attempts to induce, or does any act calculated to induce, any member of a police force to withhold his services, shall be guilty of an offence and liable—
    (a)on summary conviction, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding six months or to a fine not exceeding the statutory maximum, or to both;
    (b)on conviction on indictment, to imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years or to a fine, or to both.

  184. Oh dear, s.91 of the Police Act 1996 came in after 1979.

    Let's hope you're not involved in forensic work, speedo.