24 August 2010


Behind every argument is someone's ignorance.
-Louis D. Brandeis


  1. Not sure why I'm bothering to say this, but I am a socialist and I really don't think it's up to some soapy titwank like frolix8 to decide that I'm not.

    Do fuck off, darling.

  2. Odd that P-Brax (not sounding quite like the real thing) was so suddenly followed by his lonely, solitary groupie and cheerleader, kizbot.

    Not quite a double-act with a mini-me.

    More like a public display of onanism.

    As for prolix8, I am not sure.

    We all need our shortcomings and deficiencies pointed out from time to time, if we do not bother to examine them ourselves.

    Whether we need our noses rubbed in them by a stranger is another question.

    The problem is that these exchanges and interplay tend not to make us look at ourselves and each other and wonder.

    They tend to make us more rigid and entrenched in our views and standpoints.

    Life is too short, however, to ponder over or engage in every tiny, sterile internet battle.

    The more you can detach yourself from them and resist the pull to join in, the less important, the more idiotic they become.

    Anyway, best wishes to everyone, even the mutating clones, deluded starfuckers and borderline-insane.

    After all, we are all God's children underneath - or Allah's or Buddha's or The Flying Pizza Monster's or that bloke who stinks of wee in the Arndale Centre...

  3. Morning Monatana and Atomboy,

    I did the 'Political Compass' questionnaire that Frog2 posted up last night - just for the craic like and it seems that we share the same off the scale left ;) If ever I doubted myself in the first place, though why I have to justtify my 'left wing credentials' to some stranger lurking on the UT is beyond me.

    Local collectivism is apparently my 'bag' so Frog's refs to the French way of doing things suits me fine!

    Oh and just for the record Frolix8 - I've never voted Lib Dem in my entire existence.

  4. Getting around the 0800 scam on mobile phones??....found this on net:

    1.Dial 01207 45 0800
    2.Enter the 0800, 0808, or 0500 number you want to phone
    3.Press # to start the call

    Call 0800, 0808 & 0500 Numbers Free* From Your Mobile

    Most mobile phone providers in the UK still charge their users for calls to 0800, 0808 and 0500 numbers. 0800Buster lets you call these numbers using your mobile’s inclusive minutes, by providing you with a UK landline number to dial instead.

    No registration or set-up is necessary, and the service is completely free*. Just dial 01207 45 0800, enter the full free-phone number you want to call at the prompt, then press #—it’s that simple!

    Not yet tried myself but given the essentially collectivist nature of UT I thought I'd share the idea/method.

    LaRit".. I've never voted Lib Dem in my entire existence." I do like a lady of strong opinions and absolute certainty.... there is plainly little wriggle room there. (..xx)

    I can better it though ....I've never even thought about voting Lib, or Lib Dem, in my entire existence or in my previous one ...

    ..... back to the building work - I wish my son was a carpenter frog2

  5. If I were having a punt on the identity of Mr Dick's alter ego I'd go with Jen and our friend in Denmark. But a wiser move might be to note Chekhov's guess and go each way on our Scouse friend exiled in Yorkshire

  6. Deano;

    Thanks! You made me chuckle ;0)

    Hope you're well and thanks for the tip on the 0800 mobile phone scam - going to give it a whirl!


  7. That's an awesome sky you provided to start the day Montana.

    If I'd have awoken from a drunken slumber in the field and glanced up and saw it...........I'd have been scared shit-less, it looks like a harbinger of the end.

    I imagine above the wild open spaces around Cowpat Junction you get sky like that on occasions.

    Time flys, it don't seem 10 minutes since it was back to school time for you last year. Hope the shock is not to severe - it's an unavoidable annual trauma for those who work in education. Best W to you and yours for the coming year.

    I always thought it inadvisable to let the devil have all the best tunes....and I much liked your riposte to frolix so may I suggest an adaptation to our header....

    The Untrusted
    Where prized soapy titwanks are cuddled and stroked in some misguided sense of solidarity

  8. Bonjour all
    La Rit -- quite an amusing graphic there on the Australian Election too ...
    Deano -- good luck with the building, a late apprenticeship for the young one ...
    Just checking a html posting ,it was coming here too .

    Tories in secret talks with unions as threat of autumn strikes looms

  9. Well I'm not sure what gang I'm in now or who I'm supposed to shout at. Apart from P.Biffen and ShillSix obviously. Because my MIND is CONTROLLED by Central UT Kremlin Officaldom.

    Thanks for the links Sheff. I'm out of England that weekend; but no doubt there'll be more 'meetings' though. Be worth attending just to see the "pre-unity" bunfights (Respect, SWP, Greens, CPB, NewRad Collective, Teamsters, Millwall FC, Faith and Justice Commission, ... etc.

    I'm surprised at how quiet the Unions are about these NHS changes currently; I guess meybe they're in the dark as much as the PCT HR departments still seem to be. Really - they haven't a clue - people being told of redundancies well before the end of the consultation period ... that's shit that is, as well as quite probably illegal...

    Work beckons. Laters

  10. I just did that political compass test too La Rit. Was right to the furtest left on the chart and just off the bottom on the libertarian bit. So what is a very left wing libertarian? Would that be a genuine communist as defined by Marxism - wither the state and all that or would it be a left wing anarchist? And where does the Green bit fit in. Oh my head hurts.

    Jen - I had forgotten about Scherf - it could be. Or Checkov could be right re Monkeyfish but not sure about it being him. Again after reading his posts and sharing a jar with the man I would say he would post that as himself - but maybe not who knows?

    So anyway if you would all refer to me now on here please as a anarcho-communist-green-left-libertarian that will suffice.

  11. On the topic of what to do re all this I have noticed a real aversion from some UT'ers to the Green party and have often wondered why? (other than the Bea Campbell debacle of course).

    This is from the Eco-socialist group that make up part of the Greens: ''Green Left (GL) is based on the assumption that capitalism is a system that wrecks the planet and promotes war. A green society must be based on economic, political and social justice. GL in short works to promote ecosocialism as a solution to our planetary ills. The time has come for drawing together forces that can present a serious challenge to the disastrous neo-liberal project.''

    The fact is that the Green party is the ONLY party with any representation in parliament to:

    Stand openly against neo-liberalism.
    Campaign for re-distribution of wealth and resources.
    Have specific policies for the above including; a land value tax, citiznes income and fairer tax system. Work with the unions and organise those currently unorganised and marginalised.

    As far as I can see it is really a viable alternative for socialists who are feeling too betrayed by the Labour Party to keep voting for them or remain as a member. (Although all may be fine as Ed Milliband is 'moving left')!

  12. On CIf there is an excellent article called 'The Great University Con'. Read it, it is good- it is also what I had been writing about on my blog last month- it is as if he simply plagiarised it all from me (he obviously didn't though)

    I have consistently maintained that universities are a rite of passage from my observations of my peers, and Aditya Chakrabotry says just that.

    I particularly liked how he was spot on, as I was in pointing out how everything now requires degrees, police studies, nursing, hospitality management- it is a massive con to ensure that these 'graduates' end up in massive debt and cannot start on the job at 18, as previously, (altough perhaps not for nurses)

    As I maintain, universities, whether they realise it or not, are allies of the neoliberal ideology. Previously, one could expect to have a job with free skills training to boot, now we are expected to pay for expensive (and often very stupid) training before we can get anywhere near a wage packet-- as I have found out to my detriment this year while looking for a job and failing becuase I don't have any of these mickey mouse 'qualifications'. Fuck

  13. Princess - the Greenies are the closest to me too.I was a tad less libertarian than you .
    A bit of intel via GCHQ -

    orchidsoroysters 24 Aug 2010, 11:45AM


    orchids -- we were talking of you last night, do you personal experience of A4e ?

    Hi. (My ears are a quivering) A couple of years ago as part of New Deal I was made to attend a 'Training Course' which was run by a 'provider' called Crescent Training.
    While on the course I tried to find out who CT are, using web searches and the paperwork given to us, also by asking the DSS and CT themselves. My research drew a blank, no info at all about who was behind it. (I got the impression they were being deliberately secretive about themselves).

    I'd never heard of A4e at the time, but from what I've read about them since I strongly suspect that Crescent Training are part of them. Some threads here, eg one about agency work and the Karen Ings one, have attracted lots of comments from former A4e victims and their experiences sound exactly the same as mine at Crescent. Too similar for it to be coincidence.

    I have their training manual infront of me; opening at random it tells me,

    "Changing Unhelpful Habits Into Better Ones.
    1. Unaware-Don't know something you're doing is wrong-Unconscious Competence.

    2. Aware-Know which habit is working-Conscious Incompetence.

    Happiness-Doing the right things every day.

    (Then there's a photo of a Mars bar and a packet of Frosties)


    I've copied that verbatim, but have no idea what it means, but it gives you some idea what the course was like.

    (I looked up the authors of the book (cost £12 to the taxpayer) and they're American and have made $100m + from selling this twaddle.)

    PS Are you the guy who used to chase balloons in SA (I may be confusing you with someone else)?

    The UTCentral Late Night Plotting Dept was considering asking for a panel on A4e and similar "customers" to describe thei experiences.

    back to waddya

  14. Heck, I may even go back on cif and post there on that thread, although in general I won't be posting often like I used to.

  15. Economic Left/Right: -6.38
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.54

    Not as close to the edge as i thought i'd be.. Where do you plot Nap? Why not pitch some ideas to Jess, it's a source of income?

    I'd like to know where P-Brax falls on that graph, somewhere just outside the top right hand corner?

  16. princesschipchops
    I've a lot of sympathy with a lot of the Greens' positions, but any party that parachutes a died in the wool liberal-elite gobshite like Bea Campbell to a Parliamentary contest loses a lot of ground with me. Looked a bit shambolic if you ask me.

  17. Turm, I did it a few months ago and I was pretty solidly left, not right to the edge but most of the way. But I am not a left winger, or a right winger, or a socialist or whatever-

    If you had asked a group of Scnadinavian conservatives to do it then they would come out pretty left wing. If you had asked a group of modern American conservatives they would come out pretty right wing. If you had asked a group of pre Thathcher Tories they would probably be centrists.

    The test is not objective or accurate and has an inherent American bias.

  18. Excuse all the spaces above, in a hurry.
    Panel proposed at 12.22 on waddya.
    There was yet another thread on PanelPropositions on the frontpage,but it's moved somewhere ?

  19. Fair play Charlie, hope the gloom is lifting ; ) Greens in scotland have been a little disapointing IMO. Could they have levered some more power?

  20. I did it anyway.

    Economic Left/Right: -7.75
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -4.82

    I'm to the left of you Turm!, although less Libertarian, but still much more libertarian than authoritarian.

  21. Charles -- it was just a bit of fun, but does add something . Putting in another dimension is better than old left/Right, and maybe you just are "left" but hate the labelling :)

    I don't label myself either.

  22. Afternoon all

    Good to see you deano

    Good points from you Atomboy.Personally i couldn't care less who 'folic acid ' is .And people here shouldn,t get defensive about their Leftist credentials just because of someone who may be a regular here but who is choosing to masquerade as someone else.And i said yesterday those primarily engaging in 'single issue' politics at the moment are doing some good work.And their efforts may bear fruit in the future as far as helping to bring about a realignment of the Left.Small steps and all that!

  23. Economic Left/Right: -9.38
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.59

    Must be some sort of extremist on the Economic side, but a relatively moderate Libertarian compared to the Princess but still way off the 'norm'.

  24. To quote Terry Gilliam, 'It's only a model...'

    And probably as accurate as Alignment in D&D...

  25. Economic Left/Right: -9.88
    Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.85

    So it basically told me what I knew already: I'm a libertarian communist.

    @bw & habib
    Thanks, I was hoping it would amuse, but I didn't expect it to amuse SteveHill.

  26. As my OU lecturer friend has pointed out, what's missing in the test is a third, Conservative/Radical co-ordinate.

  27. On the compass I get -8.00 and -6.21. Though some of the questions assumed rather too much I disagreed with in their backgrounds.


    To check whether my antipathy to the Greens was due to a personal and local dislike of Caroline Lucas or something more substantial, I just read the party's 2010 election manifesto in full.

    And in summary, my problem with it is the Green part. On economics and taxation, I could agree with a lot of it while noting that much of the policy would be undermined without broad international co-operation. But massive rises in alcohol and tobacco taxation? A carbon quota with a card that you need to swipe every time you pay an energy bill, or buy fuel or a plane ticket? A return to the fuel escalator? The obsession with climate change as the prime driver behind all policy feels wrong to me, particularly when it's linked to anti-science rhetoric that opposes nuclear power, GM technology, and animal research in medicine, and when there seems to be an idea that inefficient power generation is better because it creates many more jobs in somehow keeping it going or insulating houses so that we don't all freeze in the dark.

    More, the party seems to have swallowed The Spirit Level uncritically and completely, which I also have some problems with.

    And finally, I have a fundamental disagreement with the party over its foreign policy, particularly with regard to Israel. Lucas' support for the factory-trashers of Brighton was disgraceful.

    So, a Green Party without the greenery? Mostly fine. In its current form, I can't vote for it.

  28. orchidsoroysters 24 Aug 2010, 12:52PM
    Frog 2.

    I'd be happy to say a few words about it, might have to consider the anonymity side of things in case I fell into their clutches again.
    (They are vindictive and, according to their own rules, they have the final say on any appeal against them. It would be nice to think that this wouldn't actually be the case but that's how they explain it).

    They appear to be a truly gigantic waste of money, especially in current circumstances

    It sure seems that way, it would be interesting to know where the money goes; none of the staff I met were getting rich on it, judging by the cars they drove. The computers had probably cost nothing-old and still using floppy discs.
    The building was in a state of disrepair. It couldn't have been rented commercially without a major refit, so presumably they got it on the cheap.

    It's well known that Blunket got a job from them, but other than that I can't really understand why the gov't is so happy to hand them huge sums of money while getting so little in return.

    Jessica is considering,so I put it at 1.11PM on the Our Panel Panel suggestions thread . LHS frontpage.

  29. #Jen - I had forgotten about Scherf - it could be. Or Checkov could be right re Monkeyfish but not sure about it being him. #

    Dunno anything about this..I've been in a tent for the last week..didn't even have a tin opener or a groundsheet..never mind internet access.

    Incidentally..for anyone that's interested..me mainly..I'd say that the running total of correct guesses as to my posting under other names has recently slumped to under 30%..I'm not most of the people I'm accused of being..and it's never happened on here. And if anyone's about to have a go about posting under a succession of different aliases etc...blame CIF not me..I only do it because they keep getting banned..I'd be happy to have them all down as "monkeyfish"...and for the fuckin idiot who once complained that I should make plain that it is me when I adopt a new persona..think about it you fuckin moron.

    Good to see Kiz is here btw...like it was great news that I could my dick in my zip last night...and just fuckin fantastic to find another broken wing mirror this morning..life's a real friggin bowl of cherries just now.

  30. Spike - I was very near to you. Economic left/right - 9.62 and Social libertarian / authoritarian -7.59

    So does that mean I am a libertarian communist? I never give myself a label because I don't really know what I am but I remember a few years back when I was in Greece - my other half was a socialist and we were at a meeting. I was questioned on my views and this young fella declared me an anarcho communist - which I think is a libertarian communist?

    PeterJ - Yeah I know some of the Green stuff doesn't sit too well with me either, although I am totally unsure of where I stand on nuclear power. I hate the idea of it but understand it might be a necessity. It is an area where I would like to know more and read more and am very open to having my opinions changed one way or the other.

    And the whole Bea Campbell thing was quite disturbing. I just think that a lot of their socio-eocnomic policy is far to the left of any other party. I also think Green issues do matter. I do think we will see peak oil prices in the next ten to fifteen years and unless we start to organise our societies in different ways the only results will either be further resource wars or economic collapse.

    I think the way forward is to have a truly Greem/socialist movement. One that understands you cannot have infinite growth in a finite world but one that places as much importance on human beings and their lives as it does on 'green' issues.

    Because at the local level the Green party is really democratic I just feel it is a party where some influence can be felt from the grassroots. NOt that I have been that active due to feeling too ill but I hope to do more as I become better.

  31. Hey MF. I was going to ask how's it hanging ???

  32. Monkeyfish - that is what I thought. I didn't think it would be you or hank - you would just post your views as yourselves and not use some pseudo name. Also didn't think the comments were clever enough either.

    Bad news on the wing mirror front. Sorry things are a bit shitty right now.

    Just had a flood - shower flooded into kitchen - place ruined. If my house gets anymore decrepit it will just simply fall down. Time to see if insurance is worth paying for.....

  33. "And the whole Bea Campbell thing was quite disturbing"

    I know... I couldn't see how 'grassroots' could have supported that nomination...

  34. #Hey MF. I was going to ask how's it hanging ???#

    try 'dangling'

  35. Was it the tent zip ? You'll have someone's eye out. Still, probably enjoying the beginning of the season a bit more than me. Come on you reds ! F@ck off Kenny Wang !

  36. Hey All,

    Just did the political compass thing, Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama, I'll take those for political company thanks very much!

  37. #Was it the tent zip ? You'll have someone's eye out. Still, probably enjoying the beginning of the season a bit more than me. Come on you reds ! F@ck off Kenny Wang !#

    Fuckin hell BW..football...football..dick jokes..can't we talk about fashion or handbags for a change...your recent patter is verging on "an exclusive, discriminatory and self serving patriarchal discourse whose cancerous agenda is the absolute debasement and degradation of womankind" as my missus is always saying.

  38. BW

    "Nelson Hitler"

    Eh? You know, it is traditional to at least wait until your opponent realises you've picked a fight before Godwinning yourself....;-)

  39. Thanks for the corrective MF, will go and flay my penis with a burning copy of G2.

  40. @mf

    I sympathise, I had both wing mirrors smashed in June/July. I managed to find replacements at the scrapyard for 30 euros each.


    I'm definitely not an anarchist, since I feel law and order will always be necessary. Human evolution started out without any laws and look where it's got us - not a glorious anarchist society, but a world in which the biggest, hardest robbers and murderers won out.

    So I'm definitely a communist, but I also believe the state and society should mind their own bloody business unless the harm done to others by an individual outweighs their right to personal liberty.

    So no rape, killing or equities trading, but where sex, drugs and rock 'n' roll are concerned, fill your boots.

    * * *

    For those that expressed an interest, the Fête de l'Humanité - described by the Rough Guide as a "spectacular communist jamboree" - is coming up on the 10th, 11th and 12th September just outside Paris.

    Prodigy on the Friday evening, Madness on Saturday (followed by the Simple Minds, for anyone who remembers them fondly) and Jacques Dutronc on the Sunday.

    Full programme here

    Tickets 19 euros in advance or 25 euros on site for the weekend.

    If you have the money, different stands offer all of France's greatest regional cuisine and fine wines. If you don't, merguez and chips are cheap as chips or you can bring your own sandwiches.

  41. Interesting report from the FT:

    ''Leading economists have questioned the Bank of England’s nonchalance over the effect on the economy of huge cuts in public spending planned by the government.

    While the interest rate-setting monetary policy committee, and in particular Mervyn King, Bank governor, have said they expect only a small hit to growth from public sector retrenchment, notes from a forum held by the Bank last month show that many City and academic economists are less sanguine.

    Facing criticism about the distributional impact of the June Budget, George Osborne sought last week to include “intergenerational fairness” into his definition of “progressiveness and fairness”. In a speech to the City, the Chancellor said:

    “And fairness extends across the generations, for what is fair about forcing the next generation to pay for the debts of our generation?”

    But the summary of the Bank of England’s recent Monetary Policy Roundtable included a line which stated that:

    “risk should be shared out across generations: a single generation should not be expected to bear all the costs of having the bad luck to experience a war or a financial crisis directly.” ''

  42. #Thanks for the corrective MF, will go and flay my penis with a burning copy of G2 .#

    No problem BW..I just think you might use a more discretion matey...don't want the chicks finding out about "the plan" now do we?

  43. Dotterel
    I am currently working on my own schisms before I take the fight to the wider cohort.

    Adamski Gramski

  44. PS
    Wing mirrors ? Got a replacement (non-electric)pair for my old cavalier off ebay for fourteen quid.

  45. Mine are electronic. Renault Safrane. I have to get a new speedometer when I get back to France, it's just died. I'll also have to be careful with the speed cameras.

  46. ''So no rape, killing or equities trading'' Peter Bracken won't like that one little bit!

    Right offski - bye all.

  47. #What plan ?#


    on the wing mirrors thing..my side got broke..the off side's a piece of 5mm ply which I Prittsticked some tinfoil onto last time it happened..amazingly, it even sorta works..I've had six or seven done in the last five years...I blame "killer-skunkweed", cheap cider, spiritual deprivation, poor parenting, Spongebob and shit like that..it's not that I don't have empathy with the lost souls that do this kinda thing you understand..but I'd still like to get hold of one of the little fuckers.

  48. MF
    Give em tazered spliffs mate, it's the only way forward.

  49. "killer-skunkweed", cheap cider, spiritual deprivation, poor parenting, Spongebob and shit like that..

    How'd you know what I do at the weekends?

    Try a scrappy for the wing mirrors, £6.50 for a fiat 500. That's the whole car, not just the mirrors...

  50. I wouldn't take a fiat 500 if they paid me £6.50!

  51. "That's the whole car, not just the mirrors... "


  52. #Try a scrappy for the wing mirrors, £6.50 for a fiat 500. That's the whole car, not just the mirrors...#

    I thought about that but I reckon I might just get a shirt printed that says "my other car's a piece of shit too"...apparently that covers you for insurance purposes.

  53. turm hehe !

    In 67 a mate and I hitched around Yugoslavia, many kms in their version of a Fiat500,slightly more roomy Yugo600. Sometimes a whole family with us and our rucksacs.
    Also had a ride in a bullock cart one hot day. Guy drove it into a river to cool off the beasts in the shade of some trees.

  54. Afternoon all

    You might want to sign this pledge - standing up for the NHS

    Also, the Barnet Alliance for Public Services is meeting on the 23rd Sept for anyone in that neck of the woods.

  55. My family spent a two week touring holiday france belgium, holland, germany. Mom dad 6'3'', 20 stone Indian grandad, my sister and I.

    In a fiat 126.

    The horror, the horror.

  56. Presumably, everyone will by now have seen this video of the woman, the cat and the wheelie-bin.

    Matt Seaton has even put a thing up on CiF.

    So, in order to demonstrate that thickness is no bar to nepotism, we have the finest mind of the Rusbridger dynasty making a proclamation:

    Is she wearing GLOVES? Because if so, that's premeditated. And so much creepier.

    Now, I have to pop out, so I'll just run through my checklist of things I might need:

    1. Umbrella
    2. Car keys
    3. Ball of string
    4. Sunglasses
    5. Cat-murdering gloves
    6. Chewing-gum

    OK. All set. Oops! Almost forgot shopping-list.

    A. Milk
    B. Bread
    C. Smack
    D. Miaow-miaow

  57. Atomboy

    That woman is the victim of a patriachal system and therefore cannot be held responsible for her actions.

  58. Paul - stop teasing La Rit !

  59. I'll just save this one from InvisibleDirigible to Bracken for posterity...

    Is that how you woo people, Peter you declamatory, self agrrandizing, septic pond of human excremental verbiage, dribbling, sonorous, soporific, smelly, waffly old cunt you...


    Nicely, nicely, we progress.

  60. Paul

    I know. It's a fucking catastrophe.

    Meanwhile on WADDYA, the throbbing brain of the Mighty Mussel is engaged with LordMetroland.

    The little waiter now says he is a political analyst who always gets it right:

    Anyway - as a political analyst I have a habit of sizing up the situation accurately. Might not win me many friends online but there's no substitute for getting things right.

    The other day, he said, "So, why didn't Russian communism work, when it ticked all the right boxes?" or some such guff.

    If we depend upon political analysts whose main source of income is the tip-jar by the cafe till, no wonder we are all so well and truly fucked.

  61. Atomboy

    I read that and tbh i'm fucking speechless!

  62. Atomboy

    And btw i don't know if you saw Sprouts attempt at soft porn yesterday.Talk of bosoms and -god forbid -bare shoulders.Had me jizzing all over the place.

  63. I thought I put this up on waddya for Damntheral, shortly before Peter arrived

    'Come on Mods, lighten up'
    posed the cynic
    'no amount of ''shotgun moderation'' can protect this over-written rubbish from legitimate humorous criticism?'

    but maybe forgot to click.

    Of course.

  64. Paul

    It seems that every time anyone posts anything which suggests or implies that CiF is not perfectly wonderful and the pulsing centre of the internet, the ones you can guarantee will come out with clenched teeth spitting venom are SpecialBrut and his only mate, kiz-whatever, followed limpingly by damntheral.

    The fact that the little waiter types complete and utter bollards is not really surprising.

    They are like a group of delusional, terrified children, clinging to each other for reassurance and comfort.

    Without CiF, their little worlds would collapse.

    They have to defend it tooth and nail and they can never admit to themselves or others that they are simply wasting their own and everyone else's time, prattling and typing toddlerish gibberish.

    As LordMetroland said, their heroine and star was VanessaBlack, who recently won a prize for being the thickest person on the internet.

    Oh, well.

    If it stops them murdering cats, I suppose...

  65. Ah a delay on the site, so I changed channel, and a little synchronicity .

    And Snap!

    Wasn't having a go at Peter, just the first one of Giyus came to hand. He's been very good at times recently, and not moddable for me.

  66. Atomboy

    Stop having a go at waiter/cafe staff, it's a good honest job which doesn't leave the poor bastards who do it time to talk shite on the internet. ;)

  67. Atomboy

    On a serious note i think that deluded trannie deserves everything he gets.Vacuous yes but also pretty unpleasant as well.

    I know etiquette says we shouldn't 'out'people but if Lord Metroland is a UT bod he's doing a great job.

  68. jen -- how are the assignments going ?

  69. Jen

    In all fairness Atomboy has only ever slated one particular waiter who works at a certain 'greasy spoon' in Pinner.Don,t think he's ever dissed everybody who works in a cafe.:-)

  70. Jen

    Yeah, sorry. You are right, of course.

    It reminds me of someone on The Weakest Link, who gave themselves a grand title to do with organising conferences.

    Anne Robinson quizzed her on what it actually involved.

    "Announcing when the coffee and biscuits would be served and telling them where the fire exits and lavatories were."


    Yes, they are quite nasty but so deluded and lacking in self-awareness that they clearly do not see it.

    Closed minds seeking to protect their closed community.

    The cult of CiF.

  71. Not too bad frog, I am trying to come up with an excuse for wanting an extension on the next one, I have used illness and a family emergency and I am drawing a blank now, good job I am not doing a creative course. ;)

    And Paul 'deluded trannie'?

    I think bru is a bit of a fool as well but can't people just use the shit she comes out with to have a go rather than insulting random made up stuff?

  72. Jen

    Fair do's Jen .Only meant it as a bit of a laugh.But sometimes taking the piss is the lesser of two evils.

    I don't know how much you know but Bru has behaved appallingly badly in the past-something i stumbled upon when i was looking at the archives here.And on waddya she regularly makes barbed comments both about the UT and certain posters who've been banned from CIF.So whilst i hear what you're saying i do genuinely believe that Bru deserves everything she gets.And in all fairness i don,t think i relentlessly take the piss out of her even though it's tempting at times.:-)

  73. Jen

    Sorry just one more thing.If Bru had apologized for her behaviour it probably would have gone some way in rebuilding bridges with people here.

  74. Sorry Paul I didn't mean that Bru wasn't fair game, from the things she sometimes comes out with and the way I have been told that she acted on here then I think she is, plus she seems to come from the same, the more they hate me the more they love me school as Peter Bracken, she can cope.

    It's just sometimes the 'sad trannie who works in a dead end job in a scummy place' stuff sometimes makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.

    I'm not the internet police and I wouldn't seriously tell people to stop, especially as I sometimes wigout and attack people personally which would make me a total hypocrite but it does make me feel a bit shitty, the same way that Hank calling Hermione a lonely old queen does.

    It might be the terms of the insults that annoy me, queen, trannie, shitty job etc etc

    I am neither trans nor gay by the way but I am famously soft. ;)

  75. Hello All


    I agree with you. The use of insults such as trannie or shitty job actually attacks all people who are trans or in a shitty job.

  76. Jen and Leni

    Actually, I think it is important to point out that the reason the insults fly in that particular direction is purely because the person concerned has always made a big issue of telling everyone that he or she works within the Brussels political structure, implying an important job without ever showing the intellectual ability to hold down anything other than something very ordinary.

    He or she also gets the insults because he or she is very ready to fire them off at the slightest provocation.

    We are all offended or upset by different things but there is also the fact that this actually happens very rarely on CiF and nearly always in connection with one person who has effectively set themselves up for ridicule and opprobrium.

    Again, I will use Stephen Fry's comment:

    So you are offended? So fucking what!

    The fact is that SpecialBrut and Peter Bracken both use personal insults as their stock in trade.

    Do you recommend that the internet turns its collective cheek?

    The problem is, it won't.

  77. I know what you mean Atomboy but in the last couple of years I have personally tried to monitor my own language (my choice and I wouldn't tell anyone else to do it) and I have found that if you take away all the easy insults, and I bet you know what I mean by that, then it is genuinely difficult to put why someone gets on your nerves into words.

    It has shut me up and made me think many times.

    Of course having a few drinks and telling someone to shut the fuck up because of XYZ then becomes a lot more fun.

    I am a sick puppy, I ration insults because the hit is bigger when I finally give in. ;)

  78. Hullo folks

    Lots of bickering goes on here I see...reassuringly like monkeys in an ancient forest... :)

    Here's a sort of question to everyone participating in the Left/Right self-analysis conversation...

    Isn't deciding where you stand on the axis of political ideology actually agreeing in a fundamental sense that democratic mechanisms that underpin the state apparatus (and thus the economic "reality" imposed upon us by capitalism) are to be preserved at all cost?

    And isn't is reasonable to suggest that it is the acceptance of these democratic mechanisms as the unquestionable frames of societies political organisation exactly what prevents a radical transformation of capitalist relations?

    We talk about the horrors of this current idiot coalition attempting to de-politicise the current economic crisis, and are left with having to emphasise the political nature of the crisis being the result of a series of highly political/ideological decisions...but at the same time we accept the pre-requisites for continuation of the cyclical nature of capitalism itself...

    Isn't deciding precisely where you sit on a political axis within capitalisms economic reality actually a little self-indulgent (in the nicest possibly way, I don't want to enter into tree-top mode here ;) )?..

    Are we not really left with deciding where we must stand outside of the economic conditions and relations we currently understand to be imploding?..because otherwise the force of history shows that we are merely re-booting a failed cyclical programme that offers illusory freedoms?

  79. Jen

    I think we have to make a distinction between whether we feel something is inherently right or whether it just feels better for us.

    If we feel uneasy seeing someone else insulted because we would not like it to happen to us, we would have to wonder whether our personal predispositions might interfere with other people's freedoms.

    I don't think either SepcialBrut or Peter Bracken are actually thick-skinned or impervious to either insults or people telling them that they are a very long way from being as clever as they think they are.

    I would suggest that they are both insecure and imagine that they were going to achieve so much more in their lives.

    However, they have each ventured onto public platforms and sought to make names for themselves there, so there is a degree to which they have to take the consequences.

    Whether we either should or could eliminate insults, either online or in real life, is something about which I am not sure.

    It may seem that we will make life better by ensuring that bad things never happen, but it might make us all less capable and less able to cope with difficulties.

    I had not intended to disparage or belittle the job of waiting at tables, which is something I know I could not do.

    I would end up insulting the diners and tipping the soup into their laps.

  80. Atomboy I think I was probably wrong to categorise either PeterB or Bru as thick skinned, I agree with your conclusion that they are probably both thin skinned.

    I think what I was saying was more to do with the nature of the insults than the actual idea of insulting people you disagree with.

    I like a finely tuned insult and calling someone a trannie, queen or deluded waiter isn't what I think of as a good slap down.

    I don't know, I get easily turned around when it comes to differences of opinion but I do think the name calling is a bit easy.

    By the by I was kind of kidding about what you said about waiters because you are normally a lot more creative with your venom. ;)

  81. Leni

    ''I agree with you. The use of insults such as trannie or shitty job actually attacks all people who are trans or in a shitty job.''

    I depends entirely on the context.A lot of people who are in shitty jobs openly state they are in shitty jobs.The issue here is whether people look down on them because they're in a shitty job-which is clearly wrong.Likewise the word trannie may well be widely used in the trans community.I,m therfore sure trans people wouldn,t be offended by it if they knew it was being used in a non abusive ,non personalised context.Likewise some gay people refer to each other as queer etc but would object if a known homophobe used it.Some Black people use the word nigger with each other but will object if a white person uses it irrespective of whether the context is racist or not.

    The context that various terms are used here in relation to Bru are in response to the way she behaves towards others.And i hope most people who are either trans and/or working in shitty jobs wouldn't take offence when in possesion of the full facts.

  82. Jen

    I know we are not actually getting at each other - or fundamentally disagreeing.

    I think we all make associations with people and perhaps these become more pronounced on the internet because other people are only what we construct them to be in our heads.

    So, we tend to use these shorthand labels more readily and perhaps less thoughtfully than we should.

    I am not sure whether the frisson of delight or the queasiness of guilt wins out here.

    I think it is propelled in part at least because I share Hank's opinion that it has been the Brut/kiz coterie and their acolytes who have done more than anyone or anything else to ruin CiF.

    Now, of course, they are welcome to their little club of misfits.

  83. Damn I did a big post there, and believe me it got my point across in a most amusing yet touching way, sadly it got eaten so I will go with ah well we are all different. ;)

  84. Lester GolemXIV is on the ball today . Now gotta go and gather some plums !

  85. jenni -- wordpad :o)

    Over the years the only long net-debates I've had, that's weeks, were a fight with links aand evidence, and the occasional barb. Flame wars not my thing. XX

  86. frog2

    Yep...GolemXIV may well be right...

    "Everything under Heaven is in chaos; the situation is excellent"


  87. @lester

    Your analysis is why I mentioned that some of the questions in that compass thing made assumptions I didn't share.

    The problem with it is that it's like one of those topological puzzles - we know the shape we'd like something to be, we know the shape it is, but there seems to be no method of stretching or folding the second to make it resemble the first. But shattering the whole shape and then trying to put a new one together from the fragments has difficulties of its own.

  88. Likewise AtomBoy
    That handful of tedious sub-intellects recognised an opportunity to form a clique as a result of the challenging posters getting expelled from (or leaving) CiF; not only did they hold back on criticism of moderation and editorial policy, they positively made it their day-long work to applaud it - thereby securing it as a ghetto of banality - importantly, as their ghetto of banality. Largely apolitical, but with casual approval of the establishment, they then assumed some kind of politicised status – they actually mobilised to make a "stand" (although I'm sure the adrenaline rush was all theirs) simply because they recognised they were in the thick of an argument. The fact they didn't - and still don't - fully recognise what that argument is about is more down to cock-up than conspiracy - which is why I don't spend all day long calling them the self-congratulatory cunts they clearly are - although I can see why others do. I’m pretty sure they’re just a bit thick really. Which is why they sigh “Ooh look !” when that latecomer and failed wannabe-Hitchens Peter Biffen drags his wank-drizzled vocabulary accross the keyboard.

  89. Apart from that it's all just fucking groovy.

  90. Damn why do I go back to Waddya?

    These boring nights will be the death of me.

  91. Jen

    Have just had a quick butchers over at waddya.UT,s like an oasis of peace and harmony in comparison.

  92. Isn't it just Paul, I would suggest starting a fight on here so we could catch up but that's a really bad idea. ;)

  93. jennifera30
    To complete all that - for anyone to focus on the personae is fair game. After all - these personae are largely artifices aimed at merely catching the attention... not real people; nor the "whole person" by any chalk...

    Blue eyed soul ?

  94. PeterJ

    So we put down that thing and pick up a whole new one?

  95. BW

    Wank drizzled vocabulary is a phrase that is going to stick with me (ewww) perfectly fitting for Peter B. :)

  96. @lester

    Possibly. I think that analogy has now officially escaped my grasp.

  97. Lordy, the've got the big guns out tonight haven't they jen?


  98. "Political analyst."

    That's made my fucking week that has. On a tuesday too. I am actually overjoyed !





  99. While the Muppet is clearly overstating her actual job, I agree with Jen that calling her a trannie from Scunthorpe (or whatever) is OTT. After all, there is a very rich vein to mine from what she actually does say.

    Lester @ 18.28 - that is a very good point and one that deserves some pondering.

  100. Haven't posted for a few weeks and I seem to have mislaid my mojo. Cats in bins seems a reasonable enough re-entry point. I'm pro-cat generally, in common with the prophet Mohammed (PBUH). Does anybody else have any thoughts?

  101. Welcome back speedkermit, too fucked off by the Boro result to make any sense but I hope you had a good holiday.

  102. Speedy, Inspector Gadget is selling wrist-bands with magic powers . They could get you somewhere really fast ...

    Wishing you a good recovery from hols too.

  103. Speedkermit - I watched the video and laughed. A lot.

    I don't much like cats - a hangover from my next-door-neighbour but one (terraced houses), who at one point had 75 cats... my kids couldn't go out in the garden for 3 years without an hours' crap removal first... not that I'm bitter... at all...

  104. Cheers Jen, it was peachy, apart from when it rained, which was often. Dante himself could not conceive of a more delicious torment than twelve days in a four-man tent with two children under five. Didn't trap my cock in a tentflap zip though, mercifully.

  105. I think the result of this experiment is that tents are shit.

  106. I think the result of this experiment is that tents are shit.


  107. Hi speedkermit

    Hope you had a good holiday.

    @thauma-i would like it put on record that i have never,never suggested that Sprouts was a Trannie from Scunthorpe.Nor have i ever suggested her job was 'shitty'.In fact i think being a Political Analyst is something to be proud of:-)

  108. Hi Speedkermit. I'm more of a dog person myself, but that woman needs talking to by the polis. Are you free?

    Weird night on Waddya. Unable to resist responding to the Special One.

  109. Being new to waddya I'm still exploring the personalities, so I foumd Bru's " I take no prisoners rather good, but being a political analystscored high on the Fulsome-Derision Scale.

  110. I missed the political analyst comment but I was bewildered by the 'I take no prisoners' comment.

    This sounds bad but I was bewildered by it because her comebacks are so soft, I am a big sissy but even when she has been trying to have a go at me I didn't feel it.

    How does she take no prisoners?

  111. Paul

    In fact i think being a Political Analyst is something to be proud of

    Yeah, well, my opinion is that her job title may well have the initials "P.A.", but it doesn't stand for Political Analyst.

    And this is in no way intended as slur against PAs before anyone starts...!

  112. 'How does she take no prisoners?'

    Is that literally - she doesn't take any prisoners -because she can't?

  113. Shaz

    Good point. x

  114. For the love of god, please don't tell me that Bruhaha has self-described as a 'political analyst'. That is too fucking priceless. She couldn't analyse her way out of a Prada handbag. The last thing I read of her Trannyship was something about bikinis. I wonder if she has ever trapped her cock in a tentflap zip.

  115. Night all, thanks for keeping me busy today, I needed it. x

  116. Excellent ain't it SK ? Heard you lot had a riot in Sheffield the other week.

  117. XX Jen. Big choice here, deal with the kilos of plums I gathered up with my LED headlamp on , or go down the pub ?


  118. Reminds me of the good old days when "Phibbsian Analysis" was de riguer accross the whole Westminster Village. Ahh, those days are gone my dahlings....

  119. This comment has been removed by the author.

  120. Speedkermit - go and 'ave a gander; you know you want to.

    Frog - pub, obviously! Btw, I saw your post to me on Waddya today ... yeah, that material was something else, wasn't it? Not even pretending to be good. Or even half-baked. Just filling up manual space.

  121. BW, did we?

    You might be forgiven for thinking I'm completely lying about being a copper because I haven't got a scoobys what you're on about! I can only imagine we won and nobody thought it important enough to tell me!!

  122. Not a real riot dumkopf - thought you went on a pissup up there with some of the regulars ?

  123. Maybe my brain is broken. It's quite possible.

  124. Paul - yeah, assault is a real larf. Especially when it's only trannies.

    Excuse me if I don't laugh along with videos of people attacking one another. Or torturing cats, for that matter.

  125. thaum

    Are you being serious?They are having a laugh FFS.No assault,no one got hurt.Just a group of men dressed up as women mucking about.Really didn't mean to cause offence.Thought you had a sense of humour.

  126. Thauma good comment on waddya.

    Does anyone else think that Bru has semi-knowingly become a parody of herself and really quite enjoys it? I do. that whole 'the silk caressing my heaving breasts and the thin straps rubbing my slight, tremulous shoulders' bit about shopping just seemed a step too far.

    Anyway as said before up thread, waddya makes us look like one big happy family tonight. Makes me feel all warm inside. NN. xxx

  127. princesschipchops
    yes - like a flirtatious aunt who has no libido.

  128. Paul...

    Thought you had a sense of humour.

    That's not a good thing to say...

  129. thauma

    I,ve deleted the 'offending' clip.As i said it wasn,t meant to cause offence and i apologize if it did.It was just a group of blokes dressed up as women mucking about.

  130. Paul:

    the second word is 'off' can you guess the first?? ;)


    I nominate the post which includes the 'cat murdering gloves' as the post of the day!

    Cat murdering gloves!!!!!!!! I want to steal that.

    Incidentally, she looked like a rather repugnant woman I had the displeasure to work for not so very long ago (so you see Paul, just like M. Fatcher I know that some women can be nasty bitches!)

    Has anyone heard about that blogger Guido Fawkes trying to 'out' William Hague? About bloody time, Ffion must be sick to death of playing the Beard.

    Hague's "love interest" shoots to top advisory role

  131. @MonkeyFish:

    Sorry to hear of your nether-region woes and wing mirror incidents ;( Were you tryig to shave at the time??????

  132. Hello SpeedKermit ;)

    Did you have a good holiday?

    (I may conk out before you reply!)


  133. Hello Lester!

    Am going to be up Sweden way in October - Gothenberg and then into the woods to re-enact the Blair Witch Project with some old friends.... I'm planning on staying in the sauna for the duration!

  134. LaRit

    ''I'm planning on staying in the sauna for the duration!''

    Well let's hope you get to sweat out some of that angst of yours.

  135. Frazzled psych-folk anyone? Currently posting from the MV & EE gig at the Harley (remember that place Hank/MF?) and everything is getting pretty torrid. Not a fighting tranny to be seen, but it could yet happen. Three hippies on Japanese banjos and not a drumkit in sight...

  136. Hiya Bitterweed:

    Thanks for sticking up for me - that's you and Frog now who've had enough too.

    (email on it's way tomorrow, I've been a bit crap of late)

    Am really now off to bed....

  137. Bitterweed

    As with your last 'intervention' you,re clearly not following the thread.I refer you to LaRit,s post at 23.14pm.Or maybe you think as a 'mere woman' she can shoot her cyber mouth off all she likes and i should basically be a jolly decent chap and take it on the chin.Well in my world gender equality cuts both ways.And if you follow the thread you will see that my post is actually quite mild compared to LaRit,s.

    Now if you had said-.''LaRit/Paul leave it FFS'' then that would have been fair enough and i wouldn't be having this 'conversation' with you now.

  138. This comment has been removed by the author.

  139. LaRit

    And the fact you aare thanking BW for 'sticking up for you' in an exchange that you started at 23.14pm speaks volumes about your' rules of engagement'.For it seems you can dish it out but when someone comes back at you then suddenly you become the 'victim'.And you call yourself a feminist!

  140. This comment has been removed by the author.

  141. Paul
    I like you sometimes mate but you've beeen a pain in the ass on a good number of occasions over the last few months, christ you've got a worse fucking trigger-gob than me sometimes and that says something.

    Over the last few months you've waded in boot first and brain seventeenth on a number of occasions and I've kept my gob shut while you've railed against against male, female, transexual and even lib-dems. I don't want a fight with you cos frankly that is worth precisely jack shit of either of our time, so lets just call it quits. Just learn when to leave it mate.

  142. LarRit

    Go to bed you stupid mare!

  143. LaRit

    Just suggested people's panel on disadvantages of Agency working.

    Several ciffers have complaine. Something else which needs sorting.

  144. BW

    I,ve never railed against men,women,transexuals or even the LibDems-god forbid.I,m afraid not for the first time you're talking out of your rear end.

  145. "not for the first time you're talking out of your rear end"

    That's fer sher. See that bit up there about me not wanting a fight ?

  146. Bitterweed

    You know what you make these accusations which don't stand up to scrutiny and then you think you can carry on like everything is hunky dory.Well not in my world pal cos when i'm wrong i apologize.So from now on quit trying to get my attention with your 'sounds' and back off.You keep out of my way and i'll keep out of yours.Problem sorted!

  147. No worries Paul. See that music, that was just an olive branch, cos I kind of like you, you fucking nutter.

    If I thought my "sounds" needed your validation I'd have stapled my ears to a burning orphanage several decades ago.



  148. Just clocked the Miliband thread on Cif.
    I was almost tempted to return and offer my services as "sick bucket monitor"
    He should post on here, where he would be in good company with prize fuckwits!

  149. LaRit

    I,ve just read over todays thread because i was genuinely non-plussed at your attack on me at 23.14pm last night.

    Was it because of my post at 16.06pm?Because if it was i can assure you that post wasn't directed at you personally.It was a piss-take of rad fem dogma.Something that several posters here have done in the time i've joined UT.

    At 16.09 Frog left a post that indicated he thought my post was taking a potshot at you.But that.s down to him.Nothing to do with me.

  150. Mind you, he probably wouldn't get cuddled and stroked!

  151. Leni -- back from the pub !

    Very convenient that one of the first people I saw on waddya this morning was Orchids who you reminded me of last night . I had even saved an earlier post of theirs, but wouldn't have remembered the name offhand. You know the rest - one contributor lined up for a¨Panel and Jess apparently onside.

    " Just suggested people's panel on disadvantages of Agency working. "

    Well, that sounds rather pre-'loaded' to me, but I'll have a look. Now i see that last night I suggested --

    Panel on Agency Workers experiences in different environments . I think they even have them answering 999 calls inspectorgadget said. I read the first few pages of his book coming soon, crazy stuff.

    The point I was making there is that the more tightly defined you make each Panel, the more other possibilities remain to have another Panel or two .

    So a call could go out for contributors on a whole range of different situations .

    Some have always been Agency work.

    Some are subcontracted-out operations where basicallly often the same people are employed, but instead of central gov or local authority, now it's the Corporation.

    Hmm. Thinking aloud here .

    Maybe instead take the sectoral approach --

    Local gov services
    Central Gov services
    NHS ?

    IT services outsourced (with lousy results) would get very informed participation from Guardian readers ! Just a Panel on that would have a very knowledgeable response. Seen many comments around on that, Martyn being one .

    Lots of possibilities, just a question of having a reserve of ammunition, so we don't have the reply " done already, see the archives (which nobody accesses) ".

    What we have seen is that the right Panel or article brings out a lot of people, and many readers learn something more, so not a complete waste of space already. Others, those with direct and usually unpleasant experience, find a space to express themselves, sometimes for the first time to an audience, which can encourage them to continue.

    Where they go next is another question !

  152. The Daily Mail is all over this "Is Hague A Dirty Poofta?" story.

    Willie out and about.

    Gay or straight, he's still a cunt.

  153. Oh bollocks! Did I miss a fur flying fight? I must be slipping...

    There's no more enjoyable way to spend an evening at home, than screaming at each other. Paul, if you're still up, I'm going to have a bit of a go at you... hope you don't mind, our kid - constructive shit and all that.

  154. Known Giyus since the 'arrival' and even had a few Hellos. Been nagging a few times recently with leni --

    LetsTalkModeration 24 Aug 2010, 10:36PM


    i notice you completely ignored leni's pleas for your awesome 'cut n' paste' skills to be deployed on a genuine real time/non foilhat scandal?

    so much easier slagging off the ciferati & rockyafellers.

    posed conspiracy cyanide.

    'Very clever SPIN..........Hermione..... pure House Spam '

    posed the cynic

    'but we're ALL waiting for the 'guardian of liberal' values to run a relevant THREAD on:

    ....... ATOS and A4E this aren't we....?'


    'But does the liberal mudia APPROVE of what the present Condom government want to do with benefit claimants'

    chuckled the cynic

    'Or do they not? After all.... didn't they support the liberals.... Like YOU did too?

    .... or did you forget?


  155. Who gives a Ffuck ? Not me ! (any more)
    - Mrs Hague

    He's Got an Upper Second - and We're Blisfully Happy !
    - Foreign Secretary.

  156. RapidEddie,
    "Gay or straight, he's still a cunt."
    Yeah, but they'll never attack him for being a cunt.

  157. @ heyhabib: did you get the bananas?

  158. ''heyhabib: did you get the bananas? ''

    I think Habib is bananas.OK big fella what's the problem now?

  159. :-) I waited all morning for you or your seconds, ate the bananas around lunchtime. Sorry!

  160. Puerile humour - #1 of a thousand things I shouldn't find funny:

    “These are all preventable infections and it is a cause of considerable concern that we are still seeing increases across the UK, especially in gonorrhoea" said by the Chief Executive of the Health Protection Agency - Justin McCracken.

  161. Protection My Arse!
    - The Pope

  162. Paul, mate, if someone has a go at you, don't go off shouting at them - it just makes them worse. I should know - I do it all the time!

    And then they make you worse and so on.

    I find some of things you say offensive, but I've never found you offensive as a person, it's true, if someone finds something offensive, so fucking what? I can't speak for BW, but he did offer you a get out shot and you came down pretty hard on him.

    Say what you want to say, but don't be surpeised if you get a bit of grief back.

  163. Giyus followed his ATOS A4e post with a rather too-accurate one on the economy.

    Happy wranglings all !


  164. Habib
    - check out some blue eyed soul I posted above.

    Paul's a nutter. Others here are Great Fucking Big 3-D Cast-Iron Hard Bastards - or even Special Forces Nonchalant Bystander Bastards. ( the worst)

    Difficult to know what happened me lud !

    I'm just looking forward to the next instalment of "NO!!! I AM ANGRY!!!! (yet anonymous... skuttles away)"

    Killing Joke anyone ?

  165. Frog

    my request was a bit bald I admit.

    The EU agency workers Directive was ignored by Lab from 2004 until just before the left office. It seems it will not be implemented. I have never heard an agency worker extolling the virtues of their employers.

    The other problem is it prevents the creation of full time, secure jobs.

    i gave up on waddya earlier as it seemed to have become a cockpit.

  166. Bitterweed - the Average White Band one? Yeah, reminded me of stuff - in a sort of good way.

    "Is that it", Paul? You'll do your own stuff, I'm sure. Damn good tune, spoiled a bit by Hugh Grant trying to be cool walking through Notting Hill.

  167. Osborne's budget is also facing a legal challenge over claims it may break equalities laws.

    The Guardian has learned that the government has so far failed to answer whether it carried out an assessment as required by law, showing it had considered whether women, ethnic minorities, the disabled and the elderly would be disproportionately affected by the cuts.

    The Fawcett Society has filed a legal challenge and the government was supposed to reply by Monday. It has asked for more time before lawyers acting on its behalf send a reply.

    Sources say the equalities impact assessment, as required by the Equalities Act of 2010, has not yet been carried out.

    Earlier this month a leaked letter from Theresa May, the home secretary and equalities minister, revealed she had warned Osborne that cuts in the budget could widen inequality in Britain and ran a "real risk" of breaking the law.

    May wrote "there are real risks" that people ranging from ethnic minorities to women, to the disabled and the old, would be "disproportionately affected".

    From the G - this is in news section - therefore, according to Jessica's criteria it can be discussed on Cif.

  168. There is a cif thread on the IFS report - doesn't mention the 'legality' or otherwise of it

  169. Paul:

    You are being a twat of the highest order. I'm personally sick of your personal digs and then feigning the 'I was only joking, you're taking it all too seriously' bullshit.

    Now I'm a 'mare'?


  170. One more thing, if two people independently make a comment to you that you're being a bit of an arse, then I would take that as a small indication that you are.

    You are also behaving like an A1 bully much in the manner of a school kid - tbh - I don't think you'd take kindly to me being continually racist "in jest" either, so why should I be expected to put up with the crud you've been spouting these past couple of weeks.

    You even took offence to my olive branch earlier this evening. What's wrong with you ffs????

  171. Leni:

    Am up for a PP on Agency working - I have some great stories/experiences to contribute: why are Ciffer's complaining? Weird.

    Also, interesting that even Theresa May is pointing out that the cuts could quite possibly be illegal. Be interesting to see how this one pans out. I notice Oikbourne and family whilst jetting off on holiday - refused to pay extra to 'queue-jump' at the airport - in the name of egalitarianism you understand ;0)

  172. LaRit

    ''I'm personally sick of your personal digs and then feigning the 'I was only joking, you're taking it all too seriously' bullshit.''

    This is getting really tedious.I honestly haven't got a clue what you're on about.Frog decided that a comment i'd made to Atomboy was in fact me teasing you.It wasn't as i said before.I was taking the piss out of rad fem dogma -something which people of both sexes do here on a regular basis.

    You seem to think you've got the right to make offensive comments to me but if i retaliate it's a problem.I just can't get my head around that double standard.You,ve accused me of being a misogynist,a bigot,a twat, a troll etc.I also see you,ve deleted the offensive post you made to me at 23.44pm. when i think you called me a fucking prick or words to that effect.But here you are whining that i called you a mare.You can't have it both ways LaRit.If you dish it out you have to be able to take it.Unless you choose to delete more of your posts from last night the evidence is there.

    If this is really upsetting you then the solution is we both totally ignore each other in future.But please,please don't cast yourself as the innocent victim here.And if people like BW,Frog or anyone else choose to see you as the blameless party here they clearly haven't read the whole thread.

    BW quite frankly is talking bollox with the accusations he made tonight.Frog seems to jump on whatever bandwagon is around.And whilst i like Habib he really isn't in a position to lecture me about turning the other cheek as by his own admission it's not something he is inclined to do himself.

    You and i had a major falling out and there was fault on both sides.However until you are prepared to acknowledge that,- instead of trying to put the entire blame on me,- it's best we ignore each other.

  173. LaRit

    I responded earlier to your posts but it seems to have disappeared.I notice you've conveniently deleted a couple of your offensive posts to me last night but are still making a point of complaining about me calling you a mare.That really sums you up doesn't it.Giving another oscar winning performance as the 'victim' here.

    ''I'm personally sick of your personal digs and then feigning the 'I was only joking, you're taking it all too seriously' bullshit.''

    Please explain.I,ve largely ignored you since our spat.And as i explained to you earlier my post to Atomboy was taking the piss out of rad fem dogma-something many people of both sexes do here on a regular basis.It was FROG who decided that post was a dig at you when i can assure you it wasn't.

    This is getting really tedious so as i said to you before let's totally ignore each other.Then there won't be a problem.

  174. Paul:

    Yes, I did remove them because I thought they weren't helpful. You are attributing way too many 'character traits' to me (victim etc.)assumptions that you cannot possibly conclude not knowing me.

    "taking the piss out of rad fem dogma-something many people of both sexes do here on a regular basis"

    Yes, people do do this, but then they don't continually bait and goad another UT member.

    Yes, this is getting tedious, I agree, but you seem to want to perpetuate it beyond the realms of reason - you seem incapable of letting something go and continually want the last word, whish is, pretty childish imho.