16 August 2010


Chachi tree frogs

There is nothing worse than aggressive stupidity.
-Johann Wolfgang von Goethe


  1. Well, I don't know what's going on with my internet connection. Right after I forwarded the e-mail from Turm, it went down again. It was off all day and just came back on about an hour ago. ??? There supposed to be sending a technician to my house on Tuesday. I'm not going to cancel. If the guy wastes a trip, he wastes a trip.

    Thanks to Thauma for getting a thread started yesterday.

  2. Just coincidinks, but i was having conexion probs yesterday..

    Anything GCHQ want's to tell us?

    I've taken Alisdair's suggestion of hiding the membership list on ATL..

    Some one couldlet me know if it's worked? If it's no more than a means of sharing pics and vids, that's something, but it would be nice if we can manage a bit more than that, from November I'll be on the dole so'll have more time.

    Any and all input most welcome.

  3. ok - anyone else looking at the tree-frogs and thinking 'the two ronnies'?

    Turm - there's no members list that I can see, but there's a list of everyone who has posted, and then it's v straightforward to get to the email address (protected only against spam/scrapers). might be problematic for some people...

  4. This comment has been removed by the author.

  5. you and yours just starting - piece on work capability assessments coming up...

  6. Y&Y r4 now, fitness for work assessments and appeals...

    All That's Left good idea frog2, any advice on security etc most welcome..

    If MW is so kind the link could go into the sidebar?


  7. Snap & Snap Philippa! Loved your dad's post frm last nite BTW. ; )

  8. turm - aye! listening to the Y&Y piece, the drop in income is just another kick in the teeth - one thing that occurs to me is that while in tax cases, if you are assessed as owing something and appeal, you are supposed to pay up while the appeal goes through (getting it back plus measly interest if you win), there is the possibility to argue 'hardship' and thus not have to pay.

    why is a commercial concern dealing with busienss tax able to argue 'hardship' but a disabled individual trying to pay their rent isn't? seems stupid to me.

    am wondering if there is a possibility of arguing hardship in the SI governing the appeals process - anyone know what number it is?

  9. Put a link up, Turm. Hope the text is okay? Let me know if you want me to change it.


    MonkEastman is an idiot.

  10. He sure is, not keen on Charleysays either.. ;) Cheers MW, I'm off for a constitutional stroll..

  11. First post was definitely garbled, but did elicit the google group link from turminder and philippa above.

    I belong to CiderWorkshop which is a very successful worldwide group. It is very scientific and technical, but also a down-to-earth helpful network ; so when Claude in Quebec was looking for a rare enzyme his cousin on hol here could go to a supplier where I'd reserved some by phone.

    After a running-in period we could link 'ATL' at CiF comments, and then a brilliant way of getting & keeping in touch with valued posters there.They could be in the same street, but don't know it. The same as at UT with your get-togethers, but potentially very powerful indeed.

    I started today with a look at Corporate Watch but nothing useful on ATOS. Only a very few links on A4E too. Ex: --
    Protestors shut down A4e Edinburgh office
    Saturday, June 19, 2010
    Protesters against compulsory “work-for-your-benefits” schemes succeeded in shutting down A4e’s Edinburgh office on Wednesday 16th June. A4e cancelled all appointments and stuck up a notice declaring their Earl Grey Street office closed for the whole day, as demonstrators gathered outside.
    Edinburgh Coalition Against Poverty organised the demo, as part of the UK day of action called by the NO TO WELFARE ABOLITION network. Protests were also taking place round Britain, including in Nottingham, Brighton, Manchester, London, and Newcastle.
    The Edinburgh demonstration lasted around two hours, with around 20 participants, and culminated at the nearby High Riggs Job Centre. Several new people joined ECAP’s solidarity network, whereby people support each other by turning up to demonstrate if someone has serious problems with the authorities, such as having their benefits cut, being homeless or being menaced by sheriff officers.

    edinburghagainstpoverty org
    Trawling further I found other orgs which rose , and disappeared , such as Disabled Peoples' Direct Action Network which seems to have lastpost in 1996 !. london coalition against poverty still alive, but I have no idea on its 'size'.


    Turm -- no more idea on 'security' than you, I'm afraid, but I'm sure we can get there !

  12. headache again - and this time, not wine-based. was just wondering if could get away with changing work days this week and then saw that they want me tomorrow instead of today anyway! good oh. will continue digging around for the tribunal rules for WCAs, if find anything will put up on ATL (good text btw montana!)

  13. just a quick note to record the opening slogan on the DWP website:

    Work, welfare, wellbeing, well delivered

    would amend to

    Arbeit, Aggravation, Arsery - Alliterally...

  14. oh, and that found this which includes (inter alia) this:

    "For all new ESA Claims from 27th October 2008 to 31st August 2009, the result of the initial WCA is as follows:
    o Support Group - 5%
    o Work Related Activity Group -13%
    o Fit for Work - 39%
    o Claim closed before assessment complete - 37%
    o Assessment still in progress - 5%"
    So, only 5% considered too sick to work (the 'support group' group)? Blimey. Can't help but wonder about the make-up of the 37% where the assessment process was abandoned. Hope that was because people's conditions improved and / or they found work. Suspect it may representt a fair few people driven to despair and just giving up...

  15. Montana-- fast work on the sidebar there !

    The Edinburgh organisation above uses 'Phone Trees' where people in a neighbourhood can be swiftly brought physically together. They are much-used here even down to my local country towns where a family threatened with deportation can alert local Support Associations, who then turn out. These associations bring together a wide array of people from the Communists and Socialists and Greenies to the Churches, which I think is very important.

    They are not all self-identified "Lefties" with the same vocabulary for analysing and describing what is happening, but they do work together !

  16. PaulBJ posted this short YouTube slideshow on Emma Harrison of A4e at waddya.

  17. Although I don't post on Cif, that doesn't stop me looking. I see on Waddya you are organising an official group and are agitating for a change to the Guardian.

    Consider it from the Guardian's perspective. An outside lobby group is trying to hijack the paper and set it's agenda. I wish you well, but I am cynical. I believe the term for what you are doing is 'entryism'.

    In fact I would say you are being a bit abusive and throwing hissy fits- what is also more childish is those with multiple identities. Why should the Guardian be shaped by your own worldview? You are all doing an admirable job, you don't need the Guardian. Jessica Reed is right though. The Guardian should stick to journalism, especially over some of it's more vacuous lifestyle stories.

    And I am not speaking from an ivory tower. I had to go and sign on this morning and I have a fever of some kind, feel awful.

    What is needed is practical things. Ignore the Guardian. For example, I am thinking of looking into joining or setting up a 'dole union', or even more radically a 21st century Jarrow crusade walking with unemployed from Glasgow to London and picking up followers on the way.

  18. have, perhaps stupidly, started up mandelson on listen again.

    immediately breaks the link between labourr and the unions / working class.

    this may not improve my mood or nausea.

    Nap - am not sure that any agitation is best described as "An outside lobby group" but even if it is, the G regularly features pieces / lines from lobby groups / pressure groups / 'thinktanks' etc, usually with money, power, influence, and the ear of government.

    this new 'ATL' gig has none of that - it is, to me, a more organised way of carrying on something that has up to now been a series of posts from different posters, yes, supporting each other, but largely 'disorganised' - now, there's some organisation coming in.

    This is grassroots, and it is 'CIF civilians' (CIFilians?) doing it. As such, it isn't an external pressure but an internal pressure. They want mutuality? BTL engagement? well, here it is. we can in no way force anything - but if having a bit more a framework to this means that those involved have a bit more support, in practical terms, then that's good, surely?

    anyway - hope you aren't feeling too grotty.

  19. Afternoon everyone,

    I've uploaded two reports onto ATL. One is the CAB report on ESA focusing on the WCA. The other is a report on the effects that the budget will have on the benefits system. This includes some good examples using possible scenarios of how people may be effected in real life.

    I think this is a good strategy as it helps to take the argument beyond simple stats and shows the human face of these cuts. Remember it's all about emotive arguments apparently...

    I'm busy at work today but will try to find time to start compiling data on ESA. Imagine the cheek of my employers expecting me to work! On my birthday no less! Come the revolution...:P

  20. Hey, many happy returns RB! And let us know about your Dole Crusade Nap, by November I'll be there too. I'm up for a 350 mile daunder!

  21. Turminder ( & Ratboy ) -- go easy on the new group for now ? I think the site needs "running-in" !

    Check on my link to Cider Workshop to see one example of a good setup.


  22. Returns of a joyful nature, RB.

  23. @frog2, less a learning curve, more a training cliff! Will have a good look at cider site l8r, it's just making me thirsty! : )

  24. haven't been posting much recently - bit of aggro this end - but just thought have not seen jen for a while?

  25. Quite an interesting post by Giyus following on to the Duke's as re-posted:

    Spam Sheeple HIstory TIME

    'Remember the Manchester GRAIN AUDit was originally an organ of Victorian Liberalism and ..... FREE TRADE..... propaganda'

    posed conspiracy Grandma

    'in the 19th century ....it approach was to campaign against the CORN LAWS
    ..i.e against regulated food prices which were seen to benefit the farming community and working classes

    ... but disadvantageous for urban commercial and bourgeois interests who wished to import cheaper food from.............the immiserized tenant farmers of IRELAND and the émigré bonded labour of the US'


    'IN the 19th century.... remember... free trade policy was called Manchesterism'
    posed the cynic

    'Critical comment is encouraging

    ......................... but historical perspective is sacred?'

    'Deletion is IMMINENT' but comment remains free'

  26. @Philippa

    Didn't jen say she was going to stay at her sister's?

  27. Hello
    Done my stint on waddya this afternoon. Once this thread closes I shall leave it for a week or two - then go back again.

    The G is not going to play this one.

    Yes - Jenn is at her sisters this week.

    Happy birthday Ratboy.

    See you all later. x

  28. ah, cheers, must have missed that.

  29. It's worrying that I'm no longer surprised by ATOS' fuckwittery. I spoke to someone earlier who despite undergoing multiple operations on both arms was found perfectly fit for work. Can't use your arms? What's the problem? The computer says you can walk 40 yards so stop being a scrounger and get back into work dammit. Nevermind what your own GP, specialist surgeons and employers say! There was a very interesting phrase in the conversation - "I know they need to crack down but this is ridiculous." A lot of people have just accepted that it needs to happen and don't question it until they are directly effected. Most of these people have been paying into the system for years in the belief that it was a reciprocal arrangment. But now they need support the lie of this becomes apparent. The most effective criticisms in my opinion come from these people. Good, honest folk who have been treated in an inhumane way. More coverage of these people speaking out would be a good tactic. It's the opposite of The Sun finding examples of 'scroungers' to rally their readership against.

    The new ATL layout is looking good btw. I see it as being something that is developing in an organic way so far. Is it a limitation of google groups that there is no way to protect your email address? Not a problem for some of us but I'm thinking of those who sign in with their main email accounts. It may be a problem further down the line as the group expands.

    Thanks for the birthday wishes.

  30. Evening all

    Loving the idea of ATL - great initiative.

    Haven't checked in on Waddya yet.

    Only two more sleeps til my hols, so I am rushing around trying to get bits of work finished before two and a half weeks in Frogland. w00t! \o/

    Happy Birthday Ratboy!

    Back in a bit.

  31. Best of luck with the ATL project, tx. Nice to see that tax and non-doms has a high profile on there.

  32. Having had a quick shuftie, it seems that there is no way to hide email addys. Google groups actually recommends using a throwaway address...

    Happy hols BB! Any info on tax dodgers gratefully received Hank : )

    Saw Mark Thomas in Embra few years ago, great gig, but you do come out feeling 50% good, 50% angry, we're all angry, how do we get even?

  33. Just read WADYYA, so I now start a brief series on the nauseating fucking hypocrisy of the radical Manchester Guardian/Guardian.

    Health warning. Get yourself a Polly Toynbee clothes peg for your nose as this first lot reeks more than a six year old camembert left to bake in a soiled nappy under the Tuscan sun.

    1. The US Civil War 1861-65.

    It's 'free' North v Slave Owning South! It's a no brainer! Who would the radical Manchester Guardian throw it's lot in with? Yes, the Racist Confederacy!! What the fuck would the mill owners do without cheap cotton??

    The Manchester Guardian were staunch critics of Abraham Lincoln throughout his presidency and ran their support of the Confederacy as being 'right on self determination grounds'.

    An editorial of 10th October 1862 said the following of Abraham Lincoln:

    ‘it was an evil day both for America and the world when he was chosen President of the United States’

    When Lincoln was assassinated, the Manc Graun said in their obituary (27 April 1865) :

    'of his rule, we can never speak except as a series of acts abhorrent to every true notion of constitutional right and human liberty’

    The constitutional and civil liberties of rights of the slave owners!

    But here's the pop shot- As this letter to the Manc Graun says , on 1st January 1863, the newspaper criticised the Emancipation Proclamation and came out against it.

    When cotton workers met at Manchester Free trade hall in 1862 to support the Emancipation Proclamation and protest against the Confederacy, the Manc Graun sniffily reported that the chief occupation was to abuse the Manchester Guardian.

    Yeah, come on cotton serfs get back under those machines and know your place.

    I have more tomorrow on the Graun's radical political heritage.

    Bring a sick bag big enough to catch your spleen and lower intestine.

  34. Echoing Hank's best wishes for the ATL work. If there's owt I can do just let me know.

    Decent draw for Forest yesterday Hank or should you have won?

    An Ajax supporting colleague of mine had a spare brief for their game on saturday. Went to the red light district for some pre game boozing, only boozing I hasten to add ;). There were hundreds of Ajax fans drinking there and not a copper to be seen anywhere. Amazing.

    Ended up in some Amsterdam micro breweries with side bars after the game and don't remember a thing about the night train back to Leyden. Or much of yesterday.

  35. Interesting stuff about the Graun and the US Civil War, Duke, thanks.

    As I understand it, the government of the time (UK) only barely came out in favour of emancipation for precisely the reason of liberal economics and getting nice, cheap cotton.

  36. We played well, very well, for the first half an hour, Duke. If Earnshaw's shot had have gone in off the post we'd have strolled it and Johan Cruyff would have swapped his customary seat at the Camp Nou for one on Trentside. After that, well, it's a long old season...

    I've never seen a copper in Amsterdam. Great place. In the libertarian universe, it's heaven to Somalia's hell.

    Give me some parameters, tx. I could prattle on endlessly about tax, so I probably need a word count and a strictly defined subject.

  37. The government of the time also liked nice, cheap potatoes, thauma...

  38. Omar Kholief's article on Cif is looking like Gogartygate II. Not helped by Brian Whittaker's hapless intervention.

  39. 75 recommends out of 78 comments for AlisdairCameron on the editorial today on PFI .

    How late is the Guardian in making this an editorial/campaigning issue? Sure the odd columnist has done a piece here and there and there have been murmurings and mentions in passing, but nothing major. Did you feel obliged until Brown,the man who used PFI for every damn thing, had left the premises before really voicing criticism? C'mon,please. Private Eye's been all over this for donkey's years, readers and commenters have kept flagging it up too.
    This paper's got some ground to make up with readers. Don't miss the boat on the issues that are getting raised below the line, by ordinary people, affecting ordinary people, instead of taking Govt or party spin and corporate PR puffery as gospel.
    There's more stuff brewing, the most shameful aspects of New Labour's legacy being turbo-charged by the Tories that you could, were you minded, really go to town with, and your readers (on the You Tell Us threads and elsewhere) are giving you the campaign on a plate. You shied away from too much investigation or exposure of New Labour, to your discredit. You surely can't fail again with the ConDems?

    The past few days have also definitely seen a racking-up of pressure on waddya. There is a lot less banter and far more Serious Bizness.

  40. Hank,

    it's the old cliche, but the championship is totally unpredictable, I reckon you'll get to the playoffs again at least.

    Speaking of football. I watched Match of the Day yesterday through my hangover.

    The new titles are woeful. The attempt to link the souless, Mammon obsessed premiership with the old First Division of yesteryear is truly desperate stuff.

    It's indicative of the malaise in England's top division in terms of its complete disconnection with your average punter on the street. It's shiny, it's glossy, it's expensive, but it has absolutely no soul, substance or community identity.

    And is colonised by the likes of Sebastian from accounts who got into Chelsea a couple of years ago, wears sunglasses on his head, texts all game and takes photos with his iphone when the action is near him.

    I have an irrational hatred of blokes who wear sunglasses on their head at the football.

  41. evening all

    good luck with the ATL if I can do anything let me know........

    "I have an irrational hatred of blokes who wear sunglasses on their head at the football."

    you have been warned don't come and watch a match in italy.......

  42. PFI .

    I see that Alisdair posted at 12.36AM ... a very good example of being there at the right time.

    There is also an ace-post by dissavowed at 8.09AM which is too long to quote here. But very well-reasoned explaining how PFI can be useful ... sometimes. Economists and accountants and anybody with common sense can see that.

  43. gandolfo,

    Italians wearing sunglasses at the football is fine, it's Italy, it's sunny, it's part of Calcio culture.

    Blokes who wear sunglasses at games in England (predominantly London teams) are the blokes whose Saturday Hampstead lacrosse league was wound up and were at a loose end so they bought a season ticket for Chelsea or Arsenal.

    Blokes who wear sunglasses on their head at the football in Britain symbolise all that's gone wrong with the game at the top level since 1992.

    Hank/Paul/any other football supporter agree?

  44. froggie

    We all need to keep at the serious biz without cutting ourselves off from the banter entirely.

    Banter is 'social cement ' binds people together. We need as much glue as possible if we are to build support.

    People do seem to be growing more confident now. The final shape of protest and alternatives we have yet to see.

  45. duke

    yeah I see your point blokes with sunglasses on their heads is symbolic of the demise of the game........
    BUT in Italy......they do it in winter as well....and following your logic of sunshine.....what's the point in putting them on your 'ead?!?

  46. Hank - yeah, I know about the cheap potatoes. And also that, when the government finally did decide (due to pressure) to step in and send some food, they sent fucking Indian corn, with no way to distribute it, to people who had never seen it before and had neither the know-how nor the equipment to process it.

  47. Giyus posted at 7.40PM --

    Spam Sheeple HIstory TIME

    'Remember the Manchester GRAIN AUDit was originally an organ of Victorian Liberalism and ..... FREE TRADE..... propaganda'

    posed conspiracy Grandma

    'in the 19th century ....it approach was to campaign against the CORN LAWS
    ..i.e against regulated food prices which were seen to benefit the farming community and working classes

    ... but disadvantageous for urban commercial and bourgeois interests who wished to import cheaper food from.............the immiserized tenant farmers of IRELAND and the émigré bonded labour of the US'

    Either he follows UT , or he's the Duke !

  48. Evening all...

    Hope everyone's well!

    Have spent the last few days attempting to put together somewhere to collect and collate all the anger and hatred for the coalition, ATOS, New Labour, the media and whatnot, but see I've already been beaten to it by Turminder and the ATL thing.

    Still, them's the breaks.

    Off to sign up for ATL now...

  49. Hi Frog,

    Yes, he's been posting versions of that for a couple of days now.

    Made me, er, chuckle with his reference to "Mutton In Europe".

    Hi James, nice to see you back!

  50. Bugger, posted on yesterday's thread by mistake!

    Hi All

    Been in la-la land since my shouty post at Hank when I was off my chops at around 04:30 on Saturday morning... vaguely remember something about James Braahn ;-)

    Thanks to the cheap men in the white coats on a freebie kick on Friday night and barely recovered from the bug I was suffering under last week (not to mention the Champix hell I've been going through) been shattered over the weekend and now today, was blessed with the Mother of all Migraines.... chemicals and spirits do not mix with me clearly...

    Like the new A.T.L. and thanks Princess for the link above.....

  51. - Panorama on atm on the IDF seizure of the Mavi Marmara...

  52. @duke - yup. Can't add much to that.

    @thauma - "and then they sent Indian corn...". Moan, moan, moan. You don't hear me banging on about Riverdance and Jimmy Cricket, do you?

    Waddya's gone up a level btw.

  53. Hank - :-P

    (Who's Jimmy Cricket?)

    Yes about Waddya - bit of a concerted campaign.

  54. Well, good luck to tx and all those who support the campaign. It's a helluva battle though. The Guardian has always been kept afloat by public sector ads and, with the public sector shrinking, their main source of revenue is gonna dry up.

    In that light, I've never understood the editorial policy over the last few months.

    Nor do I understand what the Guardian stands for anymore.

    It would be a shame if the Guardian went under, but I think there's a real chance it will do so. The Observer was close to folding six months ago.

    But if they both go, maybe there'll be a gap in the market for a left-wing paper that isn't run for the benefit of clapped out Hampstead nepotists.

  55. hi La Rit - yeh, you were talking bollocks.

  56. Hank - based on the Duke's revelations, it sounds like the Guardian stands for what it has always stood for.

  57. thauma

    based on the Duke's revelations, it sounds like the Guardian stands for what it has always stood for.

    His grace should post that on waddya

  58. "...it sounds like the Guardian stands for what it has always stood for."

    Yeh, I've never had any illusions about the Guardian. I've bought it for the last 25 years even though much of what it said spoke nothing to me. The best of a bad bunch.

    The only newspaper that I've ever really read most of the way through, nodding appreciatively and thinking it stood for what I stood for, lasted about 3 months in the summer of 1986 or 1987.

    The News on Sunday.

    I've always had a love/hate relationship with the Graun, and indeed the Observer. I did think the Observer was good yesterday though. Some good angry stuff from Cohen, William Keegan and even Vicky Coren.

    I know that it's not fashionable to get angry, even on here, but it's time to do so. And newspapers can play a part in that.

    As long as they're not run by Jess and Bella.

  59. On the off chance that anyone's interested, this is what I've managed to come up with so far.

    I'm not the sharpest sandwich in the picnic basket, so any suggestions, ideas an whatnot will be gratefully received....

  60. PFI on CIF? Alyson Pollock got a bit of breathing space for two - maybe three - weeks, on PFI.

    The rest has been burried by Rusbridger.

  61. leni 20.28 to froggie -- " We all need to keep at the serious biz without cutting ourselves off from the banter entirely. Banter is 'social cement ' binds people together. We need as much glue as possible if we are to build support. "

    I've actually sneakily saved a few of your late-night posts on what is happening in your valley, what you were doing about it with EC grants, how hopeless the people now are, having re-mortgaged the homes painfully bought by their grandparents, etc. Very moving reporting from you, which would make a brilliant ATL in the guardian sense of the initials . No banter needed there.

    I looked once or twice at waddya over the past five years and did no more. Looked at waddya and UT recently and there is MUCH less (for me) time-wasting as time goes on. Well, the heat is on. If for example the Duke wants to talk ( in addition to his erudite and spot-on analyses of history etc ) about football, and most of you love choons, well that's not my thing but we are I hope and pray working together in the same direction!

    SHIT. I know we are .

  62. peterbracken's comment 13 Aug 10, 7:01pm
    This comment has been removed by a moderator. Replies may also be deleted.

    If you are lurking, please call in ! XX

  63. Hank

    I was peripherally involved with News on Sunday, and they used some pictures of mine - yet another good idea that fell by the wayside.

    the heat is on.

    It sure is frog - but I'm afraid we'll miss the opportunity we now have - although I really hope we don't.

  64. Props on the site James. Would be an honour to link on A.T.L once I figure out how to! NN all. P x

  65. Cheers Turm - I've just figured out the link thing, so is it OK if I link to ATL too?

  66. Sheff - "..and they used some pictures of mine".

    Oh. I really didn't think it was that kind of paper.

  67. Sheffpixie ' the heat is on " and it's going to get hotter.

    You know all too well it's about being 'organised'. A few years back you were writing leaflets ( and it"s a serious job too ) but I gather you got out of practice . Now , going by the past three days on here, quite a lot of others are thinking of doing so.

    That's local enterprise, not ezzactly the one the govt was thinking of, but the aim of it is not a theoretical 'raising of consciousness", but to get 5 or 20 people out on their aged or young feet to demonstrate outside an ATOS or A4e centre or whatever.

    Very embarrassing !

  68. Hey, it's just been brought to my attention that someone here shares my name - Hi Jaye!

  69. Just read a lovely comment in the Daily Mail today on an article re disability benefits. The comment was: '' What ever happened to Darwin's survival of the fittest? The human race is doomed if we keep pouring resources into keeping the genetically defected alive.''

    The worst thing is that some total fuckwit allowed this as this article was PRE-MODDED. Anyway anyone who is interested can email Editor of Mail or comment on the article to say this is a disgrace and also contact the press complaints commission about the Mail and its modern day witch hunt. If enough of us do contact them the PPC might do something - I know they have had a few complaints now about The Mail.

    As an aside I have however noticed more and more readers reluctance to be really nasty towards those on disabilty benefits. More sympathetic comments are appearing and getting reccommended too. Could possibly that the paper and this government are pushing this all a bit too far and people are starting to see through it? Still full of hate for anyone unlucky enough to lose their job though!

  70. Just a detail of a few hundred million here at the FT this morning -

    Barclays has agreed to pay $298m (£190m) to US authorities to settle investigations relating to payments that the bank facilitated to countries facing government sanctions.

    Barclays is the latest in a string of European banks to be hit with such charges after it allowed financial transactions to take place between nations that were under sanction by the US.

    Banks put on notice over Iran business - Aug-15In depth: UK banks and the State - Aug-04Lloyds Banking Group, its UK rival, and Credit Suisse, the Swiss bank, have reached similar settlements over the past year.

    In court documents filed on Monday, US prosecutors revealed that Barclays had facilitated payments by countries including – but not limited to – Cuba, Iran, Libya, Sudan and Burma. These countries were facing economic and trade sanctions from the US government at the time the payments were made.

    Chickenshit amount of course , just a normal business cost, and they'd provisioned for most of it already.

    Business as usual, nothing to see. Move along.

  71. Post at 23.06 above - "jayEreilly"?

    Can't believe jay got a stalker before me...)-:

  72. Evening everyone. Christ the News on Sunday. I'd clean forgotten about that.Union backed I think, never properly viable,got bought briefly by that fine figure,er, Owen Oyston, then closed down. Wasn't there also the Sunday Correspondent that came out briefly, late 80s, early 90s, with some okay writers (but also Jonathan Freedland and Robert won't-stress-words-normally-if-he-can-mangle-'em-instead Peston)and a very good crossword then folded.
    @ La Rit. How's it going with the Champix? I'm on it (for the third time...) and it's a bit weird isn't it?

  73. PrincessCC -- noticed you've been around in the RW press, here in the Mail-- " As an aside I have however noticed more and more readers reluctance to be really nasty towards those on disabilty benefits. More sympathetic comments are appearing and getting reccommended too"

    Maybe there's an opposing groundswell from within the ranks of the purported Right Wing. An extreme example, but some even of our local UMP (Sarkozy) politicians also have children or relatives disabled from birth.

    Immigrants, especially coloured ones, are easily portrayed as the 'other', but the 'disabled' are something else.

  74. I remember reading a report in the News On Sunday about Forest winning 6-2 at Chelsea while lieing in bed listening to Billy Bragg's new album (Talking to the Taxman about Poetry) as my girlfriend was in the kitchen making me a bacon sandwich.

    I don't think I've ever been happier.

  75. @ frog and princess

    A friend came up with a theory regarding the shift in Daily Mail comments. They are becoming more sympathetic to stories about disability benefits, whereas the Cif comments are getting increasingly less sympathetic. So maybe the readers of each paper are just posting on the other papers blogs? :P

  76. Ratboy -- I'll stick with my " the wisdom of crowds " delusion that 60% (just) of people are decent underneath, but maybe I'm a little pissed !

  77. Smell of Brown Leather

    Seems we both got zapped.You wrote a fucking good post at 11.18pm but you then demean yourself by picking on someone like Hermione.WTF has she ever done to deserve the abuse you subject her too.There are far more worthy targets than Hermione and for the life of me i don,t understand why you're not directing your fire at them.

  78. @paul

    He's a good poster. I agree with everything he's said. I agree in particular with his point that hermione is a waste of fucking space, a liberal pissant who is much loved by idiots who understand nothing.

    Hermione and all she represents need to be confronted and attacked. Her, and people like her, have betrayed the Left.

    I despise her. And all who support her.

    And until you understand why, you'll have nothing of interest to say to me.

  79. Incidentally, didn't Montana say that Hermione was more of a socialist than me, monkeyfish and scherfig?

    I'd love to see the rationale behind that.

  80. "I'd love to see the rationale behind that."

    Don't be silly, Hank. Montana's not going to get in a row on here. Not while you're around anyway.

    She'll just post a snide comment about how she respects Hermione as a socialist intellectual at 10.00 when she knows you're gonna be at work, or she'll suggest that Goethe ever said anything as ugly as "aggressive stupidity" just to wind you up.

    And so it goes.

  81. Hey Frog - Yep been on The Telegraph a fair bit - quite like it actually - well the economics articles. I like Ambrose Evans Pritchard - the man is as gloomy as me. I wish the Guardian would do more economic stuff to be honest. Re the groundsell from within. Yep it only takes someone to have a member of their own family to get an illness or be disabled before they become more sympathetic to that groups plight. (Unless that person is Stevehill or MAM of course!) Whereas some groups will always be seen by many as 'the other' which is a shame. (See point below to Ratboy)

    Ratboy - don't know re the comments whether or not they are 'lefties' or actually even a lot of Tories are sick of the demonisation of the sick. A lot of Tories I know don't like it. In fact a lot of them, as I have said, take the view why target the sick and disabled instead of ''immigrants and single mums pushing out six kids'' which is not exactly progress but it does make one wonder why the government is hell bent on this particular campaign? Tainted as it is too with the stench of New Lab.

  82. You're talking to yourself, Hank. Everyone has fucked off.

  83. Fuck, you're right, Hank.

    You've scared them all off, you lovely daft angry fucker.

  84. No you're not right Hank, except for when you are.

    @ Princess
    I'd say on the balance of probabilities you and frog are right. It can be easy to forget that there are a lot of 'one nation' Tories who must be as sickened by this governments (and the nu-labour gov before) attacks on the disabled as we are.

  85. @Ratboy - you're kidding yourself, fella. There's no such thing as a "one nation" Tory anymore. Macmillan is dead in his grave and Ken Clarke has taken ermine.

  86. I don't know if any walk the hallowed halls of power but I personally know a few Tories who meet the description. I think of them as the last bastards against the wall...

    I could however be deluding myself about there being a lot of them as I'm just going off my own experience, which obviously can't be extrapolated.

  87. Haven't a clue what you're talking about, ratboy. I thought I was pissed (-:

  88. No worries I confuse myself at times, although interestingly only ever when sober.

    And on that inane note I'm fucking off for the night.

  89. Me too. I was hoping to square up to one or two bigmouths but they're nowhere to be seen.

    I'm sure Goethe would have had an aphorism with which to dismiss them.

  90. @Montana - here's one to post as tomorrow's standfirst. It's profound, pointed and it's from me:

    I never fancied you. I just liked you as friend. Now, for Christ's sake, grow up. And get over it.

  91. Funny day on waddya. So many told them exactly what we want to talk about - to be told we can't.

  92. Leni - Funny days and more to come !

    Or maybe there's a groundswell , even of the people dear Hank says do not exist since Supermac, -- the ' One Nation Tories' .

  93. Princess CC I've been noticing for some time that Ambrose at the Torygraph, Gillian at the FT, have been more outspoken on Big Finance than much of the Guardian.

    Well, the System is in deep shit, hanging on by a suspension of disbelief.

  94. Frog

    I hope it is the beginning of a groundswell - perhaps people are starting to understand what is happening here.

    As more cuts are announced i think people who previously felt safe are realising that the spin off cuts impact right across society - you will have to be very secure not to feel threatened.

    There will certainly be tories who will understand the damage to come - in both social and political terms.

  95. Frog

    On another note - the current catastrophes - Russian fires, Pakistan floods etc - I am wondering about the impact on global supplies and prices - food prices will certainly rise.

    What other effects can we expect?

  96. We had some good news in S Wales today amid all the gloom.

    Tata are putting massive investment into P Talbot steel works - said to guarantee jobs for 20 years.

    Now hoping for orders - fingers crossed .

  97. Leni -- it's all up in the air in a way nobody has seen before.

    We can't do much about some of the big picture, the financial lunacy, but we can act by getting out there to embarrass A4e and ATOS among others. To protect the most vulnerable.

    Any govt faced with widespread unrest or stabbing those fuckers in the back should do the obvious. Sacrifice them. They were mercenaries, they are disposable.

  98. Tata is all loose cash, giant liquidity flows, always best to be suspicious.

    THat Hongkong billionaire who bought EDF Network from the frogs for £5.8bn last week, same difference.

    Qatar Investment Authority got 1.5bn Citigroup shares for $6bn three weeks ago. The loot sloshes around with not much rhyme or reason !

  99. Or in the case of a nice physical asset like a steelworks, national park or forest,electricity distribution network,a chunk of motorway or a few toll bridges, once you have title it's worth something more than whatever the dollar or pound is worth one year ahead ?