02 August 2010

02/08/10

Panama Tanager - Uncredited

Education is what survives when what has been learned has been forgotten.

-B. F. Skinner 

214 comments:

  1. Just read yesterdays comments, what the fuck was last night all about?

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  2. Jen - glad it's not just me wondering that...

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  3. Wow! Eric Hobsbawm's daughter on Womans Hour - apparently she's a high flying business woman, a Grande Dame of 'networking' and arranges events for 'big thinkers'; bill topping persons like Niall Ferguson and Simon Schama. Who'd a thunk it!!

    Jen

    Last night? One of the periodic UT weekend spats, I've encountered worse.

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  4. Guten morgen!

    Read down the posts last night - the fur was flying a bit there!

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  5. Sheff

    Just a spat, that's good I thought it was the final of the drunken dickhead of the year award and was quite upset that I wasn't invited to participate. ;)

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  6. Morning all. That was some weekend. I was away, but dipped in a couple of times - after the wedding when I was pished (friday night & sat morning). That was some proper melt down last night.

    I'm thinking late Sept for another UT test-match; Northants. When I get back from the Shetlands.

    Laters

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  7. I've put an experimental thread up on UT2, to see if people would take to a different commenting function. The new comments would allow for embedded videos, smileys, and spell checking. There are some other functions that could be added, though I'm not sure how useful they would be. Play around with what's there and we'll see if people like it.

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  8. Shefpixie
    Bit sad that about Hobsbawm "jr"....

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  9. There is a thread about Ian Duncan Smith and welfare reform, but it is closed for comments.

    And some bright spark decided to let Gerry Adams write for Cif about the wikileaks release.

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  10. Charles

    The attrition rate on the comments on GA's wikileaks piece is quite spectacular I noticed - mods in overdrive on that one.

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  11. Nap -- less pagehits if they'd got a decent journo or historian to do it !

    Article by larry Elliot on Co-ops and mutuals on the Business section, for footy fans and general interest too.

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  12. Paul

    #Oh and for the record if you ever come back to waddya under whatever guise you choose and start picking on the likes of Hermione and KT again i swear to god i,ll eat you alive cyber style.#

    #But if i,m ever on-line there whilst you,re laying into harmless people like Hermione and KT i,ll face you down.And let,s see what happens then eh.Wanker!#

    ..erm..why?

    cos they're helpless and can't defend themselves?

    cos you're upset that CIF's whole 'integrity' and 'credibility' suffers whenever someone draws attention to the ultimate pointlessness of providing a platform for some deluded goon to post meaningful drivel via the medium of whimsical banter which just isn't funny?

    cos you're feared throughout the interweb for the viciousness and brutality of your 'facedowns'?..not much sign of that last night btw...you seem to have scooped shots right over the bar when faced with an open goal or two. Seriously Paul..what makes you think you represent any sort of a threat..any more of a threat than, say, Hermione?

    What the fuck was all that about?...you were comin over all Raoul Moat mate..."I'll do time for you mate..I don't fuckin care man..you have a pop at Hermione again and I'll eat yer fuckin heart out"...pitiful

    Good call on Killing Time, though. I'm pretty sure he is a helpless minor who's a bit out of his depth..certainly comes over that way..so why all the concern on your part?..you tryin to impress Jess..earn yourself a blue C?

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  13. Interesting programme on R4 about graduates by Guardian's own Sanfranz Manzoor. Just finished though. Confirms what I have been saying along,

    Universities are just a politically correct way for the middle class liberals to be selective.

    'Graduate jobs' my arse. We have graduates in neuroscience and biotechnology who want to work in things like sales and marketing.
    How patriotic do they feel wasting the states money like that. Do they not realise their extremely privileged position and couldn't they work in the field they studied in.

    I am at the end of this becuase so may jobs now have 'graduate entry' when they don't even require it practically- this is a load of bollocks. It is just a barrier to keep the proles from getting ideas beyond their station.

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  14. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  15. What a total farce the Adams thread is and the treatment of subsequent postings on WADDYA .

    Similar to the Tony Blair Sierra Leone thread, it's a modding blitzkrieg. PeterJ got his post zapped on WADYYA for saying that watching the modfest is strange. Unbelievable.

    And the ultimate irony is, the topic is on freedom of information.

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  16. #What a total farce the Adams thread is and the treatment of subsequent postings on WADDYA .#

    too right..it needed a thread but Adams just wasn't the choice...commissioning him is another example of the sorta of Endemol/ yoof TV mentality that passes for cutting edge at the Graun and CIF these days. Adams brought nothing but controversy...he was a lazy, uninspired and wrong-headed choice..the decision was childish and inspired by a desire to shock and look radical.

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  18. La Ritournelle,

    I posted 2 fox news "reports" about the Netherlands on Friday. According to Fox "News", the Netherlands is a godless dark land where euthanasia and legalised infanticide are regularly undertaken and next on the list is freely available suicide pills. According to some Republican twunt they had in the studio, Dutch Parents have "wonderfully naive views about teaching their children safe sex and being open about drugs".

    Which is why the Netherlands has the lowest teenage pregnancy and STD rate in the OECD whilst the USA has the highest. And half the amount of Dutch are regular cannabis users compared to US users.

    Additionally, Amsterdam is an anarchic cesspool of sex, drugs and deprivation and a warning to anyone who loses their religion.

    The Dutch Govt made an official complaint about it. Needless to say the whole report swivel eyed hardline Christian propaganda.

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  19. >>It would be fucking great if, having won those battles,
    >>the feminists, the poofs and the black activists
    >>would piss off and give the Labour Party a
    >>fighting chance of representing the intertests
    >>of working class people, as opposed to middle
    >>class minorities.

    Whoo, as a working class BEM feminist (I'm no a buftie tho, right?) can I say, ah, where shall I piss off to, oh Lord Scorpio? Unbeliveable, in vino veritas I guess...

    Any hoo, I'd like to piss and whine about this. tax rebates. I worked from april to october 2009. I paid tax as if I'd be employed 12months, but my job is seasonal, when the job finished in November I phoned the Tax office, they said you have to wait until April. April They ask for p60, send that off. June they ask for benefits statement. send that off. TODAY I get a letter asking for benefits statement for 2008-9!? Have to spend 30mins on 0845 numbers to get to the right dept, who are now sending me the form to send to HMRC.

    I reckon I'm due £300-400. That would really make a difference to me, but the bloody hoops you have to go thru!

    Got feedback from my interview, "you did a good interview,but you were weak on EU procurement knowledge, and procurement in general." This was for TRAINEE procurement officer! FFS.

    Hedgetrimming if the rain keeps off, part of my indentured service in lieu of rent. Welcome to Airstrip One. Have a nice fucking day. :- §

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  20. @Duke, @MF

    They'll have to close that Adams thread. It's reached a point where everyone's playing 'tease the moderator', and they can't keep a lid on it without deleting everything. It's another total clusterfuck, and a foreseeable one.

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  21. Yeah..tbh, I get a bit sick of this kinda stuff. Fact is: the British Army has a long and inglorious history of being places it shouldn't be as far as I'm concerned but that's ultimately a political issue. Criticising the Afghan debacle from the point of view of the way the war is being conducted is very much secondary to the fact that they're there at all.

    The wikileaks do little more than inform us about what happens in a war: innocent people are killed and horrifically injured. That's not new..that's always been the case. The idea that Afghanistan and Iraq represent a new nadir in war crimes thanks to their being neo-liberal campaigns disguised as liberal interventionism doesn't add up. The fact is we should never have gone to war...the "Fuck me we're at war and there's all kindsa killing and stuff going on" reaction of so many liberal commentators is just laughable.

    As far as I can see, the reaction to the wikileaks 'revelations' is just either naive or totally disingenuous. Apparently, there are special teams whose role is to 'take out' enemy commanders...shock fuckin horror!!!...only this isn't some new inhuman neoliberal tactic..it's what's always happened..read Homer, Heroditus, Thucydides, Tacitus, Plutarch, Josephus...the fuckin Eagle has Landed even.

    Civilians die, we learn..innocent civilians..women and children. Again read the above for indiscriminate slaughter, famine, pestilence, rape, slavery etc...we do slightly better these days. I'm even willing to believe they go to great lengths to avoid innocent casualties these days (a couple of videos of gung-ho fuckin idiots being gung-ho idiots doesn't really persuade me otherwise). My issue is entirely that we're there at all..the fact that the reasons are entirely about the future economic advantage of various Western corporations and the way that so many liberal commentators prefer to give that fact the body swerve to indulge in mawkish articles about injured kids which inflate their own bloated progressive credentials.

    It's similar to the way Adams demanded for years that the IRA were 'at war' with the British state but the bullets were only allowed legitimately to fly one way..any response from troops was state fascism.

    Only solution: stop getting involved in other people's business...then you don't have to shoot them when it turns out they didn't actually want your 'help'.

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  22. Duke et al - I just saw 'Gerry Adams' and abstained, even from reading it .

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  23. monkeyfish

    Well i suppose it was only a matter of time before the other half of UT,,s resident Hinge and Brackett tribute act showed her face.

    Water of a ducks back mate.But i repeat what said to Hank last night.If you hate CIF so much why do you 'girls' keep going back to post there.And what do you hope to achieve by picking on the likes of Hermione and KT.And if you feel you,re within your rights to wade in to last nights spat even though you weren,t involved then why shouldn,t i wade in when you and Hank attack the likes of Hermione and KT?Or do you feel that your self proclaimed status as UT elders gives you some sort of privilege.

    Anyway i have a bug to fight right now so i,ll leave you with a touching reminder of you and Hank at your last outing together.

    Enjoy the rest of the day ladies.

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  24. #Whoo, as a working class BEM feminist (I'm no a buftie tho, right?) can I say, ah, where shall I piss off to, oh Lord Scorpio? Unbeliveable, in vino veritas I guess...#

    So you're a "working class BEM feminist"? I think that statement kinda makes Hank's case for him. Sure you'll deny this but there's a certain attitude within 'progressive' circles which would read "I'm a working class BEM feminist" as indicative of your political leanings.

    It would be regarded as hugely incongruous (in Guardianiastaville at least) if you followed "I'm a working class BEM feminist" with the words "and I work for Goldman Sachs...and I'm pretty pissed off with these immigrant..blah blah blah"...that's what he was saying...when you make a statement like that as indicative of a political stance when all it really states are details about your identity, then frankly you've swallowed the identity trope hook line and sinker.

    You might have tried "I'm a socialist"..but there is a considerable body of opinion that if you did, it would be oxymoronic to further qualify it. I know CIF is literally infested with so called 'socialist feminists' or 'socialist gay activists' or 'socialist race activists' but that's cos they're striking poses and are a bit thick.

    Exploitation and discrimination are universal..the answer is solidarity...not exceptionalism based on gender or race or sexuality...it's these that fuck up any chance of unity and change..which is why the useless idiot shills at the Guardian give them such high priority..it stops anything happening and protects their position...but Jess is lovely...and the Jaffa Cake thing was an absolute hoot!!...and THEY REALLY DO CARE

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  25. Paul

    I take it all back man..you're too fierce mate

    ...shit, now I know what's it like to be 'faced down'..won't fuck with you again.

    #And what do you hope to achieve by picking on the likes of Hermione and KT.And if you feel you,re within your rights to wade in to last nights spat even though you weren,t involved then why shouldn,t i wade in when you and Hank attack the likes of Hermione and KT?#

    I hope to break up their cosy consensus which disguises the true nature of the place..a haven for useful idiots to strike radical poses...why would you want to stop that?..do you think there's some value in what they do?...oh and since this is a sort of comment site, I'll think "wading into" spats and discussions is sort of the idea..no?

    #Or do you feel that your self proclaimed status as UT elders gives you some sort of privilege.#

    interesting question..which might have required an answer if I had ever proclaimed any such thing...can you show me when and where the proclamation took place?

    So anyway Paul..back to my original point..which, if anything has been strengthened by your lukewarm Milquetoast limp-wristed response...why do you consider that you represent a particular threat to anyone with a basic grasp of the language and some rudimentary logical abilities? You're a lightweight pal..a pushover.

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  26. and with that..the fuckin screws and bolts arrive..so back to work..I'll try and catch you tonight Paul..give you some time to put together a real feisty 'facedown'.

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  27. Monkeyfish

    I don,t consider myself to be a threat to anyone.I do however consider myself as someone who can easily stand his ground-or facedown-cyber bullies like you and Hank who seem to spend an inordinate amount of time covering up their own inadequacies by picking on people who pose absolutely no threat to anyone.

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  28. #I don,t consider myself to be a threat to anyone.#

    agreed...although the following statements...

    "i,ll face you down.And let,s see what happens then eh.Wanker!"

    "i swear to god i,ll eat you alive cyber style."

    tend to suggest you actually think otherwise...De Niro and scenes in front of mirrors spring to mind.

    #I do however consider myself as someone who can easily stand his ground-or facedown-cyber bullies like you and Hank#

    Not so sure I agree with this. First, I don't think your 'standing up for yourself' is quite as clear cut as you think...I tend to find you just make more of a tit of yourself..second...'cyber bully'?..who, when and where?...and be particularly careful in light of...

    ""i swear to god i,ll eat you alive cyber style."

    #who seem to spend an inordinate amount of time covering up their own inadequacies by picking on people who pose absolutely no threat to anyone.#

    "inordinate amount of time"?...frankly...bollocks

    "picking on people who pose absolutely no threat to anyone"...people like you you mean?..you started your last post with the sentence..

    "I don,t consider myself to be a threat to anyone."

    do you ever actually read what you've just written?...although I do agree, you're not a threat..nor especially interesting or entertaining.

    What would be good though, since it seems you're able to interpret my motives and identify aspects of my self-image which were never clear to me (ie. the self-proclaimed status which I never actually 'proclaimed'), is if you actually went through and identified my 'own inadequacies'. What is it that you consider my greatest inadequacy and why do I try and cover it up?..I'm genuinely interested.

    Really do have to go now though..screws were the wrong size..gotta pick the fuckers up myself..check ya later Paul..and think hard.

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  29. for posterity/.....

    "I can confirm that the Guardian is carrying out what I call 'ghost deletions'- that is making all trace of posts disappear entirely.

    When I made my first comment, there had been at least 70-75 posts. Yet that first comment, now deleted, is on the front page, ie in the first 50 comments. Therefore that means that out of the first 75, about 30 vanished without trace.

    We are now 260 comments in. I wonder how many have been 'ghost deleted'. "

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  30. monkeyfish

    Don,t really care what you think of me.And if i am prone to making a tit of myself from time to time then at least that gives me and you-in whatever guise you choose to use-something in common.And as far as your suggestion that i need to 'think hard' goes i actually don,t need to do that as far as you and your sidekick are concerned.In fact i don,t even have to work up a sweat.Because at the end of the day you,re both bitter,n,twisted has-beens with an inflated and misplaced sense of your own superiority.And whilst there are many people here who are clearly impressed with you both i,m afraid i,m not one of them.

    toodle pip!

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  31. A bit of drumming gets rid of a lot of anger.

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  32. Oh well, I guess there is no point getting in a tiff with cif over moderation.I have my own concerns anyway, had to go down to the JC today, walk 20 mins completely in a different part of town so I had to take another 50 minutes to walk into the city, all for a five minute interview.

    Sigh.

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  33. Could any of you quarrelsome males explain to me why, in an argument, some of you start calling each other 'girls' or 'women'.

    Is there something frightful about my female status that I don't know?

    I apologise for appearing come over all feminazi on you but its beginning to get on my tits (I do have them - well one actually lost the other one to cancer).

    Could you find some other way of insulting each other - just for a change?

    Alternatively could you just pack it in? This site is beginning to read like a primary school playground - thats not insulting kids btw they are kids they don't know any better!

    Alternatively perhaps some of them do!

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  34. Anne don't you know that as a manly man the worst thing to be called is a woman, on the plus side it is the easiest way for us to tell which men should be avoided like the plague.

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  35. Thanks annetan, seconded, it's starting to get on my (possibly metaphorical) Parus spp. too!

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  36. I think perhaps Paul is using 'ladies' as a reference to Mavis & Melissa on Cif. Whether he's correct in this identification, I leave to other wiser people to work out.

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  37. In a personal sense this is not my quarrel.

    I too dislike identity politics but i dislike even more the need for them. Marginalised groups - women, gays and immigrants - were excluded from mainstream society and political thinking for too long in Britain.

    You can no longer stick a card in your window saying "No Irish, blacks or dogs " but people can and do still think it. Because blatant discrimination is outlawed this does not mean subtler forms no longer exist. At this point it becomes my quarrel. I do not see it as a PC issue - I see it as a fundamental requirement of my humanity to recognise all as equal. We all have the same basic needs.

    Identity politics have split the working class and these divisions are there for all to see. We are weakened and divided at a time when we most need to pull together . We should resist this call to division - it plays into the hands of those who benefit most from it - do you not wonder why they encourage it ?

    My only further comment is that over the last couple of days I have read things here which have saddened me.

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  38. Anne

    Apologies for any offence caused.I was using the terms 'ladies' in reference to the female guises that certain males have used on cif.It wasn,t supposed to be a put down of the female sex.

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  39. Well MF, I have always relied on the sale of my labour, never had a salaried job, worked on building sites and factories, so yeah, working class. I'm of a minority ethnic group, and think women should have equal status and pay as men. I'm pretty left wing in my views, and vote SNP from an anti imperialist, rather than Nationalist stand point. Hank's drunken bigotry needs to be challenged. Although he seems as hide bound and idealess as P-Brax.

    >>Exploitation and discrimination are universal..
    >>the answer is solidarity...not exceptionalism based
    >>on gender or race or sexuality...it's these that
    >>fuck up any chance of unity and change..

    Couldn't agree more, so why do Lefty Bracken, and Show me the Anger, Hulk Hank, just take potshots and call folk names? I'd like an answer to the question tho? To where should I fuck off?

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  40. I sent the saturday FT article to a young mate workin in a NY bank -- part of the reply --

    Those kind of article make me think about the relative pauperization theory of Marx...

    Frog education of course :)

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  41. Hi Leni, I was playing a little fast and loose on my trillions,on the editorial thread, but here's a link to --
    Andrew Haldane of the BoE on the Crisis and Systemic Risk

    Unusually clear language, so recommended to all !

    Back to hedge-cutting, bloody hot here .

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  42. Anne well said and Leni - ''My only further comment is that over the last couple of days I have read things here which have saddened me.''

    Yep, me too.

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  43. PrincessCC --bonjour hope you are feeling even a little better. I agree with the girls ( the real ones!), lifes too short for that stuff. XX

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  44. Oh cheer up, you daft buggers, they were just words. They crumble into the past more quickly than they were constructed. :-)

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  45. Finished my 10ft holly ball, sweaty work, good luck with yours frog2! Habib, as always the voice of reason..This cheers me up!

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  46. Hi Duke

    "I posted 2 fox news "reports" about the Netherlands on Friday. According to Fox "News", the Netherlands is a godless dark land where euthanasia and legalised infanticide are regularly undertaken and next on the list is freely available suicide pills. According to some Republican twunt they had in the studio, Dutch Parents have "wonderfully naive views about teaching their children safe sex and being open about drugs"."

    I'm going to check those links out, thanks ;) Fox 'news' is beyond the pale - they're barking, rabid mad and think they can smear whole groups of people with impunity, I'm not bloody surprised the Dutch Govt. was demanding an apology .... those blokes running the Young Turks TV channel picking to bits Fox news is pretty damn funny though!

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  47. Evening all

    Agreeing with Anne, Leni, Sheff, PCC and Thaum.

    Turm made me LOL with his "To where shall I fuck off?"

    There would be no need for special interest identity lobbying if people were not treated like shite because of their identity.

    How can there be solidarity between the workers when half of them won't stand on the barricades next to "that poof" or "that P..i"?

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  48. Paul

    #Don,t really care what you think of me#

    But Paul, that makes me sad. I haven't really told you what I think of you. I'll do that in a minute. You, on the other hand ignore any question I ask you and just keep up this bitter and twisted/inadequate theme..I ask you to qualify that..I ask you to justify it..you ignore me and carry on.

    Here's what I think of you...I'll use an analogy..you're at some social gathering and some gobshite (you) starts throwing his weight around. The thing is, this particular gobshite is a deluded 8 stone weakling with a Mike Tyson fixation. You try and ignore him, smile indulgently for a bit, try and laugh it off...but he just keeps going on and on..eventually, you have to get up and sort him out.

    You see there's a bit of a disconnect..or, let's be honest: a gaping chasm.. between an objective assessment of your intellectual powers and your own subjective estimation. That's why your self-appointed role of internet knight in shining armour is so completely comical.

    You seem to want to protect the harmless and helpless. If that's really true I'd suggest you get in a trench and keep your head down...or maybe stick to the 'witty banter' on CIF...I'm guessing that's about your level sonny.

    But then again...you don't care what I think whereas I'm absolutely fascinated by your opinion of me and the inadequacies you detect..you still haven't diagnosed them btw..they seem to come down to the fact that I'm so bitter about something that I'm driven to take the odd swipe at various nonentities on Waddaya. Now I like to think I do that because I want to fuck up the carefully concocted shop-window display theme which lends CIF a completely bogus meritocratic, democratic, responsive, concerned image.

    So..why do I really do it Paul?

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  49. #There would be no need for special interest identity lobbying if people were not treated like shite because of their identity.#

    Unless you're classifying "being treated like shite" as an identity (which I do..I call them 'people who should be voting Socialist), I'm guessing you're wrong.

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  50. Ladies - speaking as a lady, I fifth your words!

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  51. As an aside - nursing a bit of a disappointment this afternoon - applied for an intensive Poetry course at the Faber Academy - just found out I was awarded one of the 16 places available, but didn't get a bursary (only 2 available)

    The fee is pretty hefty so, this proves the point - if you ain't got the cash - doesn't matter how talented you are - your opportunities to make a better life are limited.

    Back to frustration or selling me bike ;(

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  52. MF

    Treated like shite - discriminated against, abused, disempowered, vilified.

    Unless you are saying that everyone in the UK has equal treatment by everyone else irrespective of their race, colour, creed, sexuality or gender, there is a problem.

    I agree that, to an extent, it does take away from the major struggle, which is the struggle against global capital. But within that there are still those who do far worse off than others not because of what they do or how they behave or how intelligent or well-educated they are, but simply because of who they are.

    We are back to the "zero sum game" arguments again. Why does it mean that, because someone has concerns about the way in which minorities are treated that that somehow diminishes the amount of concern they "have left" for those in poverty and suffering from oppression overall?

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  53. La Rit - that is shit. What a shame.

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  54. Evening all

    Just back from the endoscopy. (Please feel free to scroll past this post anyone who's not interested).

    Thank Christ for the NHS!! The whole business has gone like clockwork. Ten days between seeing GP and the procedure, which is not very comfortable but doesn't hurt and only takes about ten minutes max. I was in an out in less than an hour. No sedation so could walk home.

    They took about four samples and it seems my stomach/upper bowel are inflammed so will be going back to their clinic.

    Sounds to me like gastritis - if so, not too serious and managable. Although having looked at what I can't eat or drink if it is, has caste me into deep gloom. No alcohol, tea, coffee, meat, garlic, cheese, citrus fruit, curry, give up smoking!! Live on porridge and bananas...Fuck that!!

    Be grateful if anyone who knows anything about this condition would give me the benefit of their wisdom.

    LaRit

    Sorry about your poetry course must be a big disappointment.

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  55. Thanks BB

    After reading some of the stuff on here I was wondering if calling myself a feminist meant that I was disqualified from being working class, you mean I can care about poverty and still care about gender and racial equality etc.

    That is a relief because I don't think the middle classes would have accepted my application to join. ;)

    That must be so disappointing La Rit. :(

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  56. Sorry to hear that LaRit!

    I've just ventured back onto CiF after two months away and have been reminded why I stopped bothering: opposing idiots yelling at each other that the world is black (or white) when it's actually grey........

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  57. La Rit

    That is a real bummer :(

    Sheff - hope you're ok.

    Jenn - there is an aspect in which MF is right. By "dividing and ruling" and setting competing interest groups off against one another, it means that people can and often do lose sight of the bigger picture, which is that we are all being shafted.

    But I don't believe that this means that there should be no focus whatsoever on the plight of various minorities. It's about balance.

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  58. monkeyfish

    I,m only a bit of a gobshite when i,m dealing with gobshites.Which is why most of the time the term gobshite doesn,t apply to me.However i suggest the term may me more applicable to you and your sidekick.

    I certainly don,t consider myself to be some 'internet knight in shining armour'.Far from it.I will however wade in if/when i see decent people being bullied .And why shouldn,t i?As i said before you,ve seen fit to wade in to a spat that didn,t concern you so why shouldn,t i do the same?And let,s not forget it was Hank who fired the first shot last night and it was you that fired the first shot today.So a little bit more self-awareness on both your parts wouldn,t go amiss.

    I suggest you be a good lad and go off and find something else to do with your time.I,ve heard bowls can be fun.

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  59. Jen

    You can call yourself what you like!! Its what you do and how you live that's important.

    People have sometimes tried to punish me for coming from a bourgeoise, middle class background, separatist fems being the worst of the lot funnily enough. Fuck'em is what I say. I am what I am and if they don't like it they can sod off - I'm not entering competitions for right on-ness.

    Don't worry about it and take no shit!!

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  60. Sheff - I could just about give up citrus fruits and curry. The rest of it makes life not worth living. Hopefully it will turn out to be something where abstaining from life's pleasures will not be necessary.

    I have a digestive condition myself but luckily it is quite well controlled by drugs.

    BB

    Jenn - there is an aspect in which MF is right. By "dividing and ruling" and setting competing interest groups off against one another, it means that people can and often do lose sight of the bigger picture, which is that we are all being shafted.

    Exactly the point I was going to make. ;-)

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  61. BB

    Can't complain...am getting all the medical help I need and feel really lucky. At my age you expect things to start go wrong and bits to begin dropping off. Given what I've got up to at one time or another it's a miracle I'm still alive!

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  62. Sheff -

    'You can call yourself what you like!! Its what you do and how you live that's important.'

    Absolutely. Well said. And this, too:

    'Fuck'em is what I say. I am what I am and if they don't like it they can sod off - I'm not entering competitions for right on-ness.'

    Sorry about your restricted diet - hopefully there'll be some compromise somewhere?

    ReplyDelete
  63. Sheff

    Reminds me of an old, bad joke.

    A guy goes to the doctors, and the doctor says:

    "Well, I'm afraid I have very bad news. Unfortunately your condition is terminal, and my prognosis is that you won't live for longer than 3 months."

    The guy is really shocked and takes a minute or too to allow it to sink in, then asks?

    "Is there anything I can do?"

    "Well," says the doc, "You could give up smoking, drinking, eating cream cakes, eating cooked breakfasts, going to the cinema and having sex with your wife..."

    "Will that help me to live longer?"

    "Nope. But it will make the 3 months feel like a hell of a lot longer..."

    ReplyDelete
  64. @Sheff

    You can stop worrying about the smoking - doctors tack a ban on that onto every list of restrictions they produce; it's a kind of reflex. Alcohol is usually similar, although that might be different for gastric cases. When I proudly told my consultant that I'd cut down on booze, he told me it made no difference and I needn't have bothered. Which was nice.

    ReplyDelete
  65. Sheff

    I know someone who has IBS which i know isn,t the same as your probable condition.But as well as watching your diet it,s probably advisable to avoid stress wherever and whenever you can.Because stress can affect the digestive system.Not easy i know when your jobs on the line.But if you,re careful in the short term you may be able to indulge in some of your vices in the longer term.

    ReplyDelete
  66. I hope it is nothing serious Sheff and you don't have to live on yoghurt and porridge from now on.

    Luckily I don't know any separatist fems and I'm not looking to make friends with any in the near future, life really is too short to take things that far (well for me anyway, I am sure they have their reasons).

    ReplyDelete
  67. "Exactly the point I was going to make"

    Mine too. Fucked if I'm getting into a fight though - too much "no - I more or less agree, but fuck you anyway" going on.

    Sheff
    ...things - especially lists like that - seem to have a way opf dispating/becoming ameliorated over time; you may well realise it's not everything that needs to go. Just one or two... Best wishes anyways.

    La Rit
    Aw keep on going; lady of your calibre; you'll pick up plenty of work.

    After nearly thirty years doing live & recorded music I know exactly how it feels when the rich kid round the corner gets all the fucking bon-bons. Onwards and upwards.

    Laters. getting bad looks from Mrs bitterweed down in the garden...

    ReplyDelete
  68. Btw, today I read savvymum's meltdown over the weekend, which someone had mentioned. Quite entertaining - pretty sure she was on the sauce as it was all a bit uncharacteristic.

    Not that there's anything wrong with sauce.

    ReplyDelete
  69. Sheff - You are braver than me. I had the sedation - too shit scared not to. Glad it didn't hurt.

    Re gastritis - this is what they thought I might have had and I asked my step-bro about it who is a final year med student. He said it can - unfortunately - be caused by smoking and booze but most often is caused by an infection. Did they test for H Pylori - something or other? He said most people don't have to give up drinking for good and often once they are on meds like Omoprazole or others then they can eat a fairly normal diet.

    But you might need a short time on a bland diet to 'rest' your stomach while it is inflamed. As for the smoking - I don't know why but it is allegedly not good for things like stomach acid. But I can't get my head around how or why the hell that would be and as others have said they pretty much say it is bad for anything these days. I think if you went to the docs with a broken toe they would tell you to stop smoking!

    So hopefully once you have gone back you will get some tablets and be able to still enjoy a nice gin and tonic!

    ReplyDelete
  70. Hey La Rit, shit news. BUT.. My partner has bemoaned the fact that a lot of 'Ladies who lunch' (and have a shit more £ than her or me) have coffee mornings, bbqs or sponsored silence/walk/litter pick, for wee Tommy's gap year.. Could you pull any thing similar to raise the fees? A friend of mine has recently married her Tibetan bf, she raised the air fare thru doing busking requests, on set days organised via facebook. Just a thought, but folk were giving her £5-10-20 a pop, as they knew her and it was a good cause... Sure the UT massive would pledge a £ or 2...

    ReplyDelete
  71. Ha ha Ian Duncan Foolboy Smith's latest idea is to pay less benefits to those oop North as it is ''cheaper to live there''. Brilliant! That's along with possibly rolling out Friedmans idea for a negative tax - but making everyone work for it. So everyone would get a certain amount of money deemed as essential to live but they would have to work for that in government provided jobs (i.e. sack everyone and employ them at really, really cheap levels).

    This is fantastic stuff it really is. I can see how it would work. A small elite in the few remaining 'real' jobs - mostly bankers and the like. And the rest of us scum working for our £123.96 a week (or whatever arbitrary amount they come up with) doing stuff like nursing, road sweeping, bin emptying, teaching etc etc.

    But none of it is as good as his last idea on the list ''significantly reduce all benefits to make work pay'. Ah now that ones a real winner.

    The only bit of silver lining is that it is going to cost a lot of money to do the mad, crazy shit he wants to do. Which means the treasury are against it. Oh except for the last one on the list that is. I have a bad feeling about this!

    ReplyDelete
  72. #Unless you are saying that everyone in the UK has equal treatment by everyone else irrespective of their race, colour, creed, sexuality or gender, there is a problem.#

    No..I'm not saying that at all. I'm sayin that there's a huge number of people getting treated very shoddily..soon it'll be a majority..and it's got fuck all to do with their identity, it's all to do with their position with respect to wealth, influence and opportunity. Those who have no relationship at all with these..the vast majority of whom have no 'identity' since white and working class seems to have become a sort of 'null identity...are going to have to suffer..as indeed will every other conceivable identity.

    The only coherent way to deal with this is to unite and organise but the 'Left Liberal' media can't say that because it's still in thrall to the notion of a multicultural utopia which never quite got around to materialising; it could never materialise because the levels of inequality ensured continuing social unrest and conflict.I agree wholeheartedly that we've a desperate and shameful inheritance which means these conflicts devolve into scapegoating along racial and cultural lines but there simply isn't any coherent endeavour in politics or the media to expose the real culprits. Until this happens, continually harping on about identity is just a fuckin useless distraction.

    Race as a concept, for instance, always seems to evolve in a way which seems to suit perfectly the needs of Capitalism at any particular moment and the media is always quite happy to fall into line. When they needed slaves, other races were subhuman; when the West wanted to exploit other races, they were childlike innocents who we'd civilise by occupying their land and stealing their resources...and when it was deemed necessary again to flood the labour pool with cheap labour we found that they liked them after all...we all had human rights..which was great...but turned out to mean that if you ever even think "hang on..I'm not sure I like the idea of having loads of Poles trying to undercut me by working for peanuts" then you were racist..not justifiably concerned..not simply being prudent..but actually racist..and the liberal media jumped right into line.

    ReplyDelete
  73. hey Turminder thats a good idea. And yes I am sure the UT'ers would be happy to back such a cause.

    ReplyDelete
  74. Sheff

    Sorry to hear of your woe - being unwell is a bugger.

    I think the infection thing is actually about ulcers - once thought to be caused by excess acid.

    just googled - stomach acid what to eat. Loadsa info there. Some will be theusual stuff about health gurus and expensive miracle cures but you will find good advice among the dross.

    Restrictive dits are horrible - haven't had a good gooey chocolate cake since - well seems like forever.

    ReplyDelete
  75. restricted diets of course - tho the dits can be pretty nasty too.

    ReplyDelete
  76. #I,m only a bit of a gobshite when i,m dealing with gobshites.Which is why most of the time the term gobshite doesn,t apply to me.However i suggest the term may me more applicable to you and your sidekick.#

    So basically, that's "same to you" then?

    #And why shouldn,t i?As i said before you,ve seen fit to wade in to a spat that didn,t concern you so why shouldn,t i do the same?#

    Or, to summarise.."So what?...You did it too!!"

    #And let,s not forget it was Hank who fired the first shot last night and it was you that fired the first shot today.#

    "Well you started it"?

    #So a little bit more self-awareness on both your parts wouldn,t go amiss.#

    Priceless

    Are you actually typing this in a playground Paul?

    #I suggest you be a good lad and go off and find something else to do with your time.I,ve heard bowls can be fun.#

    Who told you that Paul? Was it your teacher or one of the dinner ladies?

    ReplyDelete
  77. Hey Thauma, BB, SheffP, TurmX -

    Thank you all for the kind commiserations ;0) was gutted if truth be told... even though I was gobsmacked I got on the course - at least I know where my work stands now - from never showing anyone to applying to getting a place was quite something. Bit bittersweet - unless I win the lottery or can find 3 grand handily lying around in the street.....hmmmmm.....

    Sheff:

    I'm glad the endoscopy went well - and top marks for bravery of no anaesthetic! I have a terrible fear of things down the throat as I saw a particularly unpleasant throat specialist once who liberally sprayed said anaesthetic down my throat without telling me I would lose the swallow sensation - I thought I was suffocating - it was hideous.

    Oh and bugger all the preconditions - don't cut out everything at once and try to find the things that irritate least (let's hope it's not the booze!) I had the dreaded reflux a few years ago and it gradually subsided - stress is alot to do with it and I hate to say it but lentils and beans are very good ;0)



    Turm -

    that's a really good suggestion about the weeekly busks! Been meaning to do that for ages anyway. I should have been a bit more organised in the first place, but as with all those with low expectations - you really don't expect to get the offer in the first place.

    Anyway, I think I'm going to have to pass this year as there's just not enough time to raise the funds now (and I certainly would not expect nor accept a whip around from the UT - lovely suggestion though that be!!)

    BitterWeed:

    Thanks too for your kind words;)

    It's a fucker - if I was my spoiled cousin - it wouldn't be a problem.... you just get sick to death of it after a while....

    ReplyDelete
  78. monkeyfish

    So let me get this right.What you,re saying is that basically you and Hank can say what you like but because i,ve chosen to respond in a way you don,t appreciate it is me,and only me,that is indulging in childish behavior.

    Nice try but i,m afraid you'll have to do a bit better than that.

    ReplyDelete
  79. 2 intedresting programmes on C4 tonight. One about the drugs war, and then the hospital. That's my evening sorted.

    Interesting debates here. Good luck Sheff, bad luck La Rit.

    ReplyDelete
  80. Graun front webpage has a picture of Mongolian neo nazis. Slow news day, perhaps?

    ReplyDelete
  81. Evening all,

    This looks like a cheery, friendly place.

    thaumaturge said...

    "Btw, today I read savvymum's meltdown over the weekend, which someone had mentioned. Quite entertaining - pretty sure she was on the sauce as it was all a bit uncharacteristic."

    Hmm, SavvyMum was the catalyst for my first spell on the CIF pre-mod naughty chair - the second spell I'm in at the moment (I'm going to have to stop rising to the bait...).

    She isn't so much offensive as thick - offensively thick maybe? She is however the brave new world of CIF - when they put out their begging letters for new posters, SavvyMum is what they're after....

    What's that big blue "C" for - what the hell did she write?

    ReplyDelete
  82. Oh, by the way,

    Hi Leni, La Rit, Paul, PeterJ, and anyone else I've forgotten...

    Very remiss of me...

    ReplyDelete
  83. Hello exiled

    How goes it with you ? You have quite cheered me up by your sudden appearance

    ReplyDelete
  84. Hi exiled

    Hope all,s well with you.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Hi Leni,

    Have I? I don't normally have that effect on women.

    I'm fine, but in pre-mod - it seems the mods have a higher tolorence for racist trolling, than for those who have a go at racist trolls....

    It was on the Roma thread, and I'll be damned if I'm going to apologise - let me back and I'll do it properly next time.

    How are you?

    ReplyDelete
  86. LaRit

    What a disappointment for you - We could run a poetry writing thing here.


    what chances of our producing the next Blake or Orwell ?

    ReplyDelete
  87. Hi Paul,

    Cheers for sticking up for Hermoine and KT. I've no idea what they've done to upset anyone (apart from KT's avatar of course....)

    ReplyDelete
  88. Leni,

    Sexton Blake or Orwelleasright? Pretty good chance I reckon.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Exiled

    Well thanks. I am now avoiding the Roma threads - too many hateful racist posts.

    I am particularly interested in the Roma - the treatment they receive says so much about what is wrong in EU.

    The Roma lack political representation. Communism absorbed them into collective farms - when the land was redistributed post wall many countries excluded the Roma from the share out.

    The decade of the Roma - hmm! Not taking them forward beyond a snails pace at the moment.

    Have to go - back later.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Leni,

    "Well thanks. I am now avoiding the Roma threads - too many hateful racist posts."

    Which the mods seem curiously relaxed about. It seems that even at the Guardian, anti-Rome demonisation is the acceptable face of racism.

    ReplyDelete
  91. PCC

    That post of yours about Ian Duncan Smith has just left me completely gobsmacked, less benefits for Northerners!

    It's like they came up with a load of ideas at a drunken night out and now they are seeing what people will swallow.

    I bet right now there are more than a few people thinking, well that's fair enough it is cheaper to live up there.

    If I thought I had any chance of getting a job I think I would try because all this uncertainty is turning me into a nervous wreck.

    ReplyDelete
  92. Jennifera30,

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but Northerners don't elect many Tory MPs, do they?

    How is this going to work? Are they going to have a different rate for every town, or every street? Places like Durham, Richmond and parts of the Lake District are pretty much as expensive as the south east, while some places in the south are as cheap as the north.

    I've heard the idea of London weighting for benefits suggested before, but on the other hand, people on the dole in London tend to be on it for less time.

    It's potentially hugely divisive - just as Thatcherism was. If they're nopt careful they'll turn Britain into the bloody Balkans....

    ReplyDelete
  93. Hiya Exiled,

    No idea what "savvymum" (ugh) wrote to earn a 'C'. Have been mostly avoiding all things Andrew Brown for a while, so haven't run across her much. I suspect she is his alter ego, though.

    It wasn't as much fun as when Theo melted down on the booze and told everyone you're either for or against the baby Jesus, though! Theo at least had the grace to come back and laugh at himself.

    ReplyDelete
  94. hello exiled! now you really are, hehehehehehe.

    bad luck, LaRit - hope you can weasel your way in somehow...

    and glad it went OK, sheff. is cheesecake on your banned list? there's not really cheese in it...

    off to try to find the savvymum meltdown, sounds like fun...

    ReplyDelete
  95. "It's potentially hugely divisive - just as Thatcherism was. If they're nopt careful they'll turn Britain into the bloody Balkans.... "

    Is that nessesarily a bad thing?

    ReplyDelete
  96. savvymum has written some theological stuff for Belief (tab, not main page), have only read one and really struggled to understand. v academic stuff. or, that's what i thought at the time...

    ReplyDelete
  97. Hasten to add, I am not talking about Balkan style ethnic cleansing.

    The fact is that Britain sinks into a neoloberal dystopia, things like Scottish separation become more attractive. I am not even ethnically Scottish but I csn understand why there is pressure ofr independance, Scotland has a much more continental consensus style of politics, a few loons withstanding.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Hi thaumaturge,

    Savvymum's so bland I can't even remember what the thread was about when I got pre-modded - all I remember is that I was zapped for being off topic when I quoted her, but her post remained...

    I tell you, she's the future - one of CIF's army of citizen bloggers. Play your cards right, and you could be one of them....

    As for "you're either for or against the baby Jesus" - seems fair enough. I am allowed to be against I take it?

    ReplyDelete
  99. That would make a nice T shirt slogan 'I'm against the baby Jesus'.

    ReplyDelete
  100. you are allowed to be against, exiled, but that would make ickle baba jesus cry...

    or somethin'

    ReplyDelete
  101. Hello again

    emergency over.

    IDS has mumblimg in his beard about this for a couple of days. Man is a fool. Penalising individuals will impact on local economy - less money in circulation damaging local shops etc. More jobs will go.

    We would be hit hard in Wales - about to lose thousands of public sector jobs - major employer here.

    We will soon have a whole staeful of the dispossessed. Time to set up alternative economy in a big way.

    ReplyDelete
  102. PhilippaB,

    "hello exiled! now you really are, hehehehehehe."

    I like to think I'll get some credit for the foresight I showed in my choice of names. Maybe I should return as bannedlondoner, just to be ready for the inevitable coup de grace?

    "v academic stuff. or, that's what i thought at the time..."

    That's "academic" in the not very relevant sense?

    ReplyDelete
  103. Savvymum's so bland

    Indeed, exiled, that's what made this little episode so interesting.

    You should really find the baby Jeebus thread. It was a piece by Theo, I think around xmas 18 mos ago. Most amusing.

    ReplyDelete
  104. Charles,

    "Is that nessesarily a bad thing?"

    Not for me - I don't have to live there (that's either in the Balkans or in Britain).

    "Hasten to add, I am not talking about Balkan style ethnic cleansing."

    Not anywhere? Go on - just a bit.

    "The fact is that Britain sinks into a neoloberal dystopia, things like Scottish separation become more attractive."

    Wouldn't it be better if Britain didn't sink into a neoloberal dystopia - the Scots could still leave, but with less bad feeling?

    ReplyDelete
  105. Cif Belief is a weird little place, there are about 3 or 4 believers and a few hundred atheists and every article seems to be about Rowan Williams, I got bored with it quite quickly.

    ReplyDelete
  106. Jen, I did get tempted in by the pope t-shirt thread a few days ago. Hilarious. Typical AB misjudgment and then huffy-sanctimoniousness.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Yeah I had a look at that one Thauma. :)

    I sometimes get tempted by the titles of articles to go in and have a look but I generally give up halfway through.

    ReplyDelete
  108. Hi exiled. Welcome to the pleasuredome...

    Jenn

    "Cif Belief is a weird little place, there are about 3 or 4 believers and a few hundred atheists and every article seems to be about Rowan Williams, I got bored with it quite quickly. "

    Made me LOL.

    I like the buddhist threads - you get the lightweights like me, the Born Again Christians telling us all we are going to hell, then some of the real heavyweight buddhist students pitch in and argue about angels dancing on the head of a pin and everyone watches in awe and STFUs. Brilliant.

    ReplyDelete
  109. 'ello again all - bit of tarka dal on the go and a few poppadoms later .... just waiting for the rice to cook....

    Exiled - hello there! what a bloody nice surprise to see you here ;0)

    I've done 3 stints on the naughty step now - it's a fucker.

    I've been admiring your posts from a-near and a-far - got to hand it to you - you are near indestructible.

    I see that PreemptiveResponse is also back on CiF.

    Leni

    A poetry page? that would be great ;0) I might even post up me pomes...... x

    PhilippaB and Charles - thanks ;0)

    ReplyDelete
  110. PS

    Princess - I read that you'd been in the hozzie again. Hope all is well with you now? ;0) x

    ReplyDelete
  111. Hi BB,

    Nice place this, but it does lack a bit of edge.

    Is it always this... well, nice?

    ReplyDelete
  112. Scary stuff about cutting benefits for those north of Watford.

    WTF...

    ReplyDelete
  113. PPS

    I've no probs with KT - he's very funny at times and always up for a bit of silly banter. HermoineG drove me nuts during the election and was pretty out of order on a John Venables thread a few months back, but she/he has ceased to bother me....

    ReplyDelete
  114. thauma - oh, god, the pope t-shirt thread was a blast. even better when it got put in as an 'editors pick' despite having been closed down and featuring a stern lecture ATL telling us exactly why...

    jen
    "Cif Belief is a weird little place, there are about 3 or 4 believers and a few hundred atheists and every article seems to be about Rowan Williams, I got bored with it quite quickly."
    just have to say that you're on an absolute roll at the minute, jen - there've been half a dozen pithy sum-ups in the last couple of days that have made me think 'nailed it!' each time.

    keep up the good work.

    exiled - more 'academic' in the overly-wordy-not-sure-what-the-point-is-but-it-sounds-good sense. any article that makes me reach for the Penguin more than twice is probably too far above my pay-grade...

    right. retiring to sofa...

    ReplyDelete
  115. Yes it is exiled it is a veritable oasis of love and agreement.

    Now would that be irony, sarcasm or flat out lying on my part?

    ReplyDelete
  116. Does html work here? Only one way to find out (this could get very messy.....)

    Hi La Rit,

    "I've been admiring your posts from a-near and a-far - got to hand it to you - you are near indestructible."

    I used to think I was - back in the days when I used to spend half my time feeding the animals at CIF Watch....

    ...then I told Matt Seaton what I thought of him...

    ReplyDelete
  117. "It's a fucker - if I was my spoiled cousin - it wouldn't be a problem.... you just get sick to death of it after a while.... "

    Tell me about it... just keep on breaking your own records is what I tell myself !

    ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  118. Fuck me! It works.

    So you're all a bunch of lazy good for nothing luddites then? I assumed html didn't work, seeing as nobody was using it.....

    ReplyDelete
  119. MonkeyFish:

    "The only coherent way to deal with this is to unite and organise but the 'Left Liberal' media can't say that because it's still in thrall to the notion of a multicultural utopia which never quite got around to materialising; it could never materialise because the levels of inequality ensured continuing social unrest and conflict"

    This is entirely the point of course. I'm just about to eat me dinner, but I thought I'd say this.

    ReplyDelete
  120. Jennifera,

    "Yes it is exiled it is a veritable oasis of love and agreement."

    That's what I thought/

    Now would that be irony, sarcasm or flat out lying on my part?

    Philippa! Can I borrow your Penguin? Jennifera's using academic words I don't understand....

    ReplyDelete
  121. Have to second Philippa's comment about Jen being on fire lately ... quite a few lol-moments, if I can use a hackneyed term.

    Exiled, surely you know that Matty doesn't like the plebs disagreeing with him. He's worried that his dinner party guests might read BTL.

    Knackered and off to bed ... rock on!

    ReplyDelete
  122. I used the word veritable (and I am not even sure if I spelt it right) I think I may have caught Bracken disease, if I use the word fulsome then we will know for sure.

    ReplyDelete
  123. Evening all,

    Julian Glover is a fucking wanker

    Have a good night all.

    ReplyDelete
  124. Thank you Philippa and Thauma it's my new medication it has made quite a difference to me (occasional mania isn't really that serious is it?).

    ReplyDelete
  125. Jennifera,

    "I used the word veritable (and I am not even sure if I spelt it right) I think I may have caught Bracken disease, if I use the word fulsome then we will know for sure."

    Good God, is Peter Bracken contagious?

    Repeat after me - "Liberal Democracy is not a loaded gun"

    ReplyDelete
  126. 13thDuke,

    Julian Glover is a fucking wanker

    That's not what I've heard....

    ReplyDelete
  127. Yes Paul, cheers. It’s appreciated.

    What to say? Is there any point in defending mine and hermione’s right to post on CiF? Seems like the jury’s spoken and judgement passed.

    What the hell. Some background first then dear monkeyfish -- and I’ve posted this before, feel free to skip ahead if you’re familiar. I can’t speak for herm, but I live in a rural area of France and have three young children. As you can imagine I don’t get out much and one of the few things I miss is a natter with mates down the pub. To my surprise, the WADDYA thread has provided a surrogate. A surprise because when I first started posting on CiF a few years ago I never imagined I’d become part of a community, but there you have it: what started with a few ill-thought-out and lightweight posts ended up as a place where I feel at home chatting to friends.

    Is the fact that WADDYA nicely fits a need I have sufficient reason to post drunken nonsense there? It’s a question I’ve asked myself many times. Your criticism strikes a chord you see. Oh it’s not the traducing of style or dismissing me as an unfunny lightweight non-entity. I’m perfectly aware that next to most posters I can seem nice-but-dim and often I don’t put a lot of thought into a post, it’s just fun to be chatting. And I don’t need the validation of a “wow, great post KT” or a bezillion recommends. I get my validation from other areas. No, the chord you strike is that I worry about derailing serious debate. Is it fair to stick up my twaddle and banter alongside posts that people have clearly spent time and energy constructing?

    I think it is. Firstly because, like it or not, it’s the Guardian’s website and they accommodate it and often encourage it with lightweight and open threads. Secondly, because it is a community and any community worth its salt can cope with many different voices. Thirdly, because the serious folk can skip over the twaddle if it doesn’t interest them and carry on regardless. As they do.

    And then, sometimes I will post something I have thought through on a thread I know something about. Not one that you’re likely to read, but it does happen. So I ask you monkeyfish; when you were posting, officially, under your first moniker on CiF, was every post you made serious and pointed? Did you not ever drift into banter with mates? Having once tea-jacked an otherwise dead thread with scherfig along with kizbot and dotterel a couple of years ago, I know he is being rather hypocritical when he complains about the tea and biscuits brigade. If you are guilty of not always being on-topic and serious, what is it that sets us apart? Doesn’t it become a matter of scale? Or is it just mine and herm’s stupidity relative to your own intellect that makes us fair game?

    Earlier, you posted this:

    “you still haven't diagnosed them btw..they seem to come down to the fact that I'm so bitter about something that I'm driven to take the odd swipe at various nonentities on Waddaya. Now I like to think I do that because I want to fuck up the carefully concocted shop-window display theme which lends CIF a completely bogus meritocratic, democratic, responsive, concerned image.”

    Leaving aside that by describing us as “nonentities” you are basically saying “I’m great, they’re wankers” you seem to be on some kind of quixotic quest to punish CiF and those who use it for not living up to your expectations. Like media outlet has agenda shocker. For all your cynicism, I wonder if you aren’t the more idealistic of us.

    What though, does your disappointment with CiF have to do with Hermione and me? It is what it is. Like most things in life not entirely wonderful and not entirely awful.

    I don’t know why I’ve bothered with this. I could have, should have left it. I accept not everyone is going to like me all the time. And you’ve never done much to make me like you. But it’s not your approval I’m looking for, maybe just an acceptance that the internet might be big enough for all of us.

    Wishes
    KT

    ReplyDelete
  128. KT
    Faut les envoyer chier, cheri. x

    ReplyDelete
  129. I've always liked you KT (well not always you sandwich throwing bully) but you do make me laugh and so does Hermione.

    For a time I loved Waddya too, it doesn't feel the same at the moment and I have been keeping my distance but don't think that just because some people here don't like either the place or the people that you have got anything to explain.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Savvymum's most recent ATL for anyone who cares to read it. I, too, was amused by her recent meltdown.

    I recently tangled with her on a thread about Polanski (she was sticking up for him!!!). Always did think she was a bit thick, but the Polanski business made me despise the bitch. Sanctimonious victim-blaming and knee-jerk anti-American tripe with absolutely zero actual knowledge of what had happened.

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  131. Hi KT,

    I couldn't agree more - for better or worse, Waddya has become the banter thread on CIF. I for one don't go there if I want a heavy debate, but when I do go there, I'm glad to see you, Hermoine and the rest.

    Bantering alone is fucking boring - though Giyus is doing a good job tonight....

    When I finally do get the boot, waddya, and the regulars there is what I'll miss most - you can replace any number of blazing rows, but you can't replace the p[eople on waddya.

    See you back there just as soon as I'm allowed off the naughty chair - if anyone asks, no I'm not sorry.

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  132. Evening all. Thought I'd look in briefly, but not feeling like chipping in much (sorely tempted to intervene in the Duke vs. Bracken argument on India, as it is an area I do genuinely have a lot of knowledge in: e-mail me if you're desperate to discuss it/get tips for further reading, but stood aside). Must have contracted the same as Atomboy.

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  133. Montana

    Savvymums meltdown seemed to be totally anti American inspired too (I didn't know she was American) but having learned that she feels anti American enough to support Polanski because of it kills the sympathy I was starting to feel for her public brainfart.

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  134. @ KT -

    'Secondly, because it is a community and any community worth its salt can cope with many different voices.'

    Am feeling less than lucid (child #2's 18th birthday dinner inc a certain amount of alcohol) but this seems not only right but essential.

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  135. Hi Montana,

    "Always did think she was a bit thick, but the Polanski business made me despise the bitch. Sanctimonious victim-blaming and knee-jerk anti-American tripe with absolutely zero actual knowledge of what had happened.

    To be fair, you must have read rather more than me - I gave up after getting to the "she's a bit thick" stage....

    Full marks for getting that far. I'd kind of lost the will to live after the username....

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  136. I think I said my bit about the username the other night, I didn't realise that kind of thing bothered me so much, it is amazing the things you learn about yourself when you are drunk posting.

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  137. @KT:

    Beautifully put.

    I used to have great affection for Monkeyfish, Hank and Scherfig. Shared political views made me think that they were good and intelligent men. Scales have been falling from my eyes, though, and I now see that they are small, bitter men who can only feel good about themselves by being insulting to people they've decided are "lightweights".

    They are so wrong. I have seen Hermione make a point in one pithy sentence that would have taken paragraphs from the three of them. Most of the "lightweights" that they sneer at have one quality in spades that the three of them together wouldn't have a fraction of -- compassion. For all their chest-thumping about their socialist credentials -- they have forgotten that compassion is esssential to being a socialist.

    KT, you're a bigger man than they could ever be.

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  138. Have you seen the pics of CRS in France dragging immigrants - including a baby - along the ground ?

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  139. Well there you have it. A jolly nice weekend's constructive banter reduced to a few bitching comments from some heavyweights from life's great online pub. Fucking gate crashers.

    KT et al. Here's the thing. I have little interest in getting manned up to prove my socialist credentials.

    I was indeed one of the many who, a couple of years ago, merrily bantered along with the rest while also taking time out to make considered, lengthy posts which, against the grain of the editorial policy, called into question the quality, veracity, and hypocricy of many atl writers. Because they were tossing off shit. Because they were writing from a position of assumed middle classed entitlement and little else. Because they, despite repeated pleas, could never up their fucking game. Because they wanted to make grand socio-economic policy changes based on trite and poorly realised single issues. Because they knew that books on identity issues sold and real politics doesn't. Because in pursuing that they quite hapily excluded any arguments about solidarity or social coherence; in their way they were saying "fuck the poor".

    I have no argument with you per se, but even as recently as two years ago I - and others - felt that it was perhaps just possible we may just engender some policy change among CiF edtors and its ubermenches such as Seatton etc, that they should raise the bar, include more evidence based journalism rather than flippant cant ATL and also remember that the vast majority of people flocking to its shores were far from a priviledged elite, but a curious and hopeful and often very well read diaspora of people committed to social change - through fair and just means.

    That did not fit the Guardian's onlinde business plan. All we are left with is thousands and thousands of erudite posts deleted, while insultingly poorly written researched drek remains; and a business model to which Alan Rusbridger is devoted: "Guardian online has two million members". He is so proud of this. A few lost angry and occasionally drunken souls trying to get the truth accross will never hurt him or the supporters of that business model; I'm sure you can understand why a few people slip under the fence ever now and then and toss in a hand grenades.

    No offence personally intended, but you are just collateral damage in all this.

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  140. Leni

    Just been looking at that thread now and wondering what to say on it. It is infested with the usual "they shouldn't even be there" numpties.

    From what I understand, they are not necessary "sans papiers" either, but otherwise homeless families who squat in the most appalling conditions because it is better than having no roof over their heads at all. African families in particular tend to end up in old, condemned blocks of flats with no heating and hot water, and in some cases no running water at all. How the hell they manage to survive is beyond me.

    And it is no coincidence that the Soixante-huitards used to chant "CRS SS"

    I will take a look at Liberation and see what their analysis is before I comment, I think.

    Frog2, Philippa, KT? Anything else on this story that we don't know about?

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  141. BW - collateral damage? That's been a shite excuse for all sorts of shite behaviour for years. Once you lose sight of individuals, compassion really is fucked. Campaign for the rights of women - but ignore your 90 yr old widowed neighbour who just needs a little company. There may be a greater good, but only individuals can sacrifice themselves for it. No one else should do it for them.

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  142. Bitterweed,

    I agree with much of what you say about the Guardian, Rusbridger et al, but what the hell has that got to do with KT?

    Hating what the Guardian are doing to CIF, and then taking it out on some poster talking about what he's drinking tonight, seems like a bizarre mixture of scapegoating and cowardice.

    CIF should be big enough for everyone - the fact that some tosser has decreed that it ain't big enough for you (or me currently) is a matter between you and the management, rather than you and other posters.

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  143. MF fuck the idea that people (real people remember) are just collateral damage, that is shit.

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  144. Fecking feckers!

    Even La Liberation has gone all paywall now!

    Connards!

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  145. Sorry Monkeyfish it was bitterweed that said that KT was collateral, a really bad mistake on my part.

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  146. Jennifera,

    Sorry Monkeyfish it was bitterweed that said that KT was collateral, a really bad mistake on my part.

    Not nearly as bad as making him collateral damage in the first place....

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  147. @Jenn:

    Yeah. The "I'm American" bit really amused me. She said she was born in Baltimore, but didn't say how long she'd lived here or how long she's been in Britain. She certainly identifies herself primarily as British, though. When speaking of Britain it's all "we" and "us" and America is "they". That makes me suspect that she was probably a child when she began living in Britain.

    Then again, I have met a few Americans living in Britain who were more rabidly anti-American than any European I've ever met. They seem to forget that they're not the only American in the world who can see this country's flaws.

    Patriotism certainly isn't one of my vices, but I am not so arrogant that I can't see that there are plenty of other people who have views similar to my own. I am also aware of the fact that there are people whose political views are 180° away from mine who are, nevertheless, good people. My next-door neighbour is a case in point. She's a 70 year old retired Baptist missionary -- she spent 36 years teaching school in Brazil (and 2 years in Ghana when she was young). But she is kind and generous and would bend over backwards to help you.

    So, even though, on balance I dislike and am rather ashamed of my country, I can't bring myself to feel the sort of knee-jerk "everything American is bad" kind of loathing for the place that Savvymum seems to have developed.

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  148. By the way, I would just like to remind people go over to UT2 to play with the Intense Debate commenting function, so that I know whether or not to add it to the other blogs.

    Thanks.

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  149. Hi Montana,

    I'll not post very often, other than when I agree with a well managed and balanced response to a male bitching competition that is not conducive to affecting anything other than point scoring on their part.

    There are more affable debates to be had on this thread, which over the past week, have been highlighted and enlightened me also. Thank you to the Duke for opening my eyes to sections of history that we as a nation, have not been taught or are indeed included in any curriculum.

    For my own interest I want to look into manufacturing and it’s demise, as I am sure it started in the Thatcher years and has been an ever decreasing vortex ever since. What triggered this is a remark from Clarkson (of all people) last night on the percentage of industry to the GDP from the war till present day has had on our economy.

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  150. shazthewombat. jennifera30.

    I can only hazard a guess the kind of flak that's been tossed at regular CiF posters on waddya as I haven't been on waddya or any other thread for months.

    But I do know that the people above who have been excluded have been excluded for calling into question the broader political remit of the online version of a failing broadsheet.

    Eloquently. With sincerity and often great wit. And yes, humanity.

    That they have chosen latterly, individually to come on here - or over there - and just get down and dirty with it, says more to me about the endless pointless desperation of trying to get to grips with what could and should be a new media exploration of social change; a new media outlet that has abandoned them online in every much a way as our political elite have destroyed true political expression of the needs of the many.

    Collateral damage. Yes. But I think you'll find most of the worst chunks taken have been internecine... Those on the sidelines aren't engaged in political discourse, but seem to just be, well... kidding about it....mocking it...

    Hope that goes by some way of explanation for a row that I haven't been in but on behalf of a few individuals I'd be proud to call up in a real battle.

    Lets face it - there are many real battles ahead.

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  151. Exiled
    - my above two posts should go some way to answering yours.

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  152. That is the problem I face BW, people keep telling me that I should be fighting.

    Fighting against what, and fighting how.

    We (the poor bastards who are at the bottom of the pile) haven't got any idea of what we should be doing or who we should be doing it at.

    I can't speak for anyone else but myself but (medication withstanding) I haven't got a clue what I should be doing.

    Would those who keep telling us losers that we should be organising etc give us (losers) a bit of a fucking clue?

    Big words will not be useful.

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  153. BW - yes, you're right about those questioning the Graun; they're right, and all credit to them. On the other hand, that's not to say that those who haven't been banned don't have equally valuable contributions to make ( not having been banned yet, I would say that) or don't feel the same - they just don't necessarily choose to engage in the same way - perhaps because they can see that no amount of pre-mod or banning will ever change the self-satisfied, smug, complacent confection that is the Guardian.
    I don't know - I can see your point of view, very clearly - but I can also see KT's point - oh bugger...

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  154. Evening all

    Good to see you KT

    Would like to play this Old Skool gem.Not sure if Junior Walker had the ambience of an English town at Xmas in mind when he wrote it but there you go.Apologies in advance to all the UT headbangers.

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  155. And this soulful Old Skool tune as well.Sick bags at the ready headbangers :-)

    Nite all

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  156. This may come across as a bit of a rant and if it does then so the fuck what.

    I am sick of being told by people who are well enough to work and who are lucky enough to have jobs how I should feel.

    Stop judging.

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  157. For my own interest I want to look into manufacturing and it’s demise, as I am sure it started in the Thatcher years and has been an ever decreasing vortex ever since. What triggered this is a remark from Clarkson (of all people) last night on the percentage of industry to the GDP from the war till present day has had on our economy.

    Hi Tascia, good to see you here (and thanks!). Oddly, I've been kicking around in the back of my mind a piece that I've been thinking about for UT2 -- sort of an outsider's wondering/questioning about this. Don't know if my thoughts on it actually warrant an article, though.

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  158. Jen - don't worry too much about IDS - his head is so full of his incredibly silly ideas I think it may soon clear explode. And none of it will work and it will take years to implement by which time the Scots and the Welsh will have built a friggin great big wall and all the northerners in England will be discovering they have Scots or Welsh roots.

    The latest polls are quite cheering anyway. The satisfaction level registered for a government so new is historically low.

    Montana - I have never read savvymum before - just like Jen the user name alone makes me feel sick. But I might have to have a look and see what I have been missing.

    Jen and Exiled - your posts have literally made me laugh out loud tonight. Cheered me right up they have.

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  159. Thank you PCC, I hope you are feeling better. x

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  160. Jen - I agree the question is fighting how? The first thing that needs to happen I think is for the unions to really start to kick off and then they could be joined by other protestors and supporters.

    I think there is a national march for jobs being organised for next spring too.

    It would be a good idea for some sort of unemployed workers union (one that also had room for those of us sick) to be formed. There are some - Manchester has one for example - but really to have any teeth it needs to be national and how this can be ahcieved I dont know.

    If an unemployed workers union could be formed then people could join other unions on marches and protests and picket lines etc. It needs people with energy and vision and anger (I have the anger but lacking the other two ingredients).

    I have often thought that one of the issues is we now have a class of people (about to get a lot bigger) that are unemployed, or out of work sick, or carers etc. They are effectively voiceless in a way that the traditional working classes were not in the years of high employment in traditional industries. But they are a big enough group to be fairly powerful if they could somehow be united. They could be a real force - but how to organise? That is the really big question.

    Right offski for me as gone really tired now. So will say nite nite all. And play nice!

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  161. jennifera30
    Not having a pop at you. No way.

    I work in the NHS. What's happening there right now is a battle each day.

    What Andrew Lansley's got "figured out" is not much less than a betrayal of every man and woman who has helped to build and continues to build that institution since the second world war.

    Cif offers no real solutions to this battle.

    It could and it should.

    It offers platitudes and for every comment about e.g. private finance there are five stories by wealthy middle classed, privately educated know-nothings and their demands for things like home birthing or homeopathy - sops to the idealogues who want to give the NHS to third-rate management structures within corporate entites invented purely for profit and owned privately accross the four corners of the earth. Soon = no NHS, but who cares when you've got a New Yorker by-line and an expensive creche in North london to pay for.

    That's one of the battles; I would not expect you to see it as any other, but I certainly by the same stroke wouldn't expect you to have enjoyed watching the largely unedified and pointless scrum that overtook these pages the last few days. I certainly wouldn't expect you to applaud it let alone join in ! Nor feel any problem about steering clear.

    What was it - that copper's last line in Alan Bleasdale's fantastic series -

    GBH

    "For fuck's sake. Please don't ever make me work with lefties again."

    You'll get all the pain right there. But that's where your - our - struggle is at.

    I'll grant you the mud-slinging is fucking tedious and I want nothong of it. But then that's not what the above mentioned scrappers are all about. Not by a long chalk.

    Best wishes.

    BW

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  162. Jenn,

    There is not an easy answer to your question. In an idyllic world a business would be set up to provide its workers – and managers/directors – with an income that will grow with the prosperity of the co-op.

    I don’t have a problem with managers who can generate income, that in itself is beneficial, and can be passed back to the workers at the coal face ( to coin a phrase ), but the said managers must be sympathetic to the workers contribution, and reward those workers justly. This should not just be in terms of payment, but also in education, and training.

    I for one appreciated the chance to further my education whilst working.

    What we need are entrepreneurs who can encompass all these areas. I believe that there are few examples – but one’s that spring to mind are Cadbury’s (although no pubs in their immediate vicinity is a bit extreme), and Dyson, whom I believe to be supportive of the moral issues of his workforce.

    We need to break the Right’s stronghold on industry by imparting as many socially, and morally aware leaders throughout all prevalence of industry. I know this may be thought as radical. But believe me there are people out there who are trying to achieve this. These individuals need to be recognised by the general media and can hopefully impose our overall ideology into what should already be a mainstream fashion, but has sadly lost its compulsion.

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  163. Montana - it's going to take a bit of investigation, as my initial google searches have come up with a whole load of data on America, and not so much about the UK. However, those I've seen on the UK are not so good - worst being from the 70's through to now.

    Will keep delving into. Maybe a good nighttime research project.


    personnel

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  164. Where did personnel come from ?

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  165. BeautifulBurnout

    >> Even La Liberation has gone all paywall now!

    l'Humanite still works.

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  166. BW - Nah, generally despise them - especially where I am now.

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  167. Fair comment tascia.

    I worked as a data analyst in HR for the local County Council for a while. they are to a man and woman, automanon creeps.

    Banter ist Verboten !

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  168. Just heard from a friend - she has just been given the title "Enhanced Women's Service Provider ". I asked her did she mean Womens Enhanced - . She does not work with victims of cosmetic surgery.


    Tascia

    Sounds like some of the New Economics Forum Thinking.

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  169. BW

    Human Rsources - creatures of the employers.

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  170. BW Agree,

    They can't see nothing past a Degree! FFS I've wiped my arse with better stuff than I've seen green graduates come out of Uni with. But HeHo that's what industry/commerce wants. That's what they are told they need !, and they don't know any better !

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  171. Leni - I'm not far Left, but I do believe in fairness, justice and morality, and what ever it takes to further people from whatever their situation at the present is, to a better situation. (May only be small increments, but it's better than a kick up the arse)

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  172. Lots of new people here, that's good.

    Tascia/Bw

    What you are saying about uni/degrees. I have said this before on cif, on here and on my blog that the whole univeristy as a rite of passage is a load of bollocks- I also said so on here this morning.

    The whole concept of 'graduate jobs' is just bollocks. It is a way of being selective and it is just a con. Now almost every career requires a degree.

    It is a neo liberal con, they pretend to empower disadvantaged people by their opeing of acessibility to higher education, but look at it like this......

    Start degree, pay course fees, pay rent and bills, be in debt, spend 3-4 years getting the degree before actually being able to secure paid employment.

    Or previously, start at a career potentially at age 18. Free training on the job and no glass ceiling.

    It's all a con. I am in the unenviable situation of just starting a degree and it will be 3-4 years before I graduate (hopefully), ie before I am likely even to get a decent paid job.

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  173. Hello everyone and hello to "Exiled" and "KT" I don't believe we have met before.

    I'm a bit confused, correct me if I'm wrong but I was under the impression that the general consensus on this site comes from the left of the political spectrum.

    What I don't get is why the likes of Hank and Sherffig and Monkeyfish keep taking pot shots at anyone who can't recite the Communist Party manifesto by heart.

    Of course the working class needs it's "intellectuals" but the ordinary man in the street doesn't need to understand what "dialectical materialism" means to know that he or she is being taken for a ride.

    It's not fucking "rocket science" to know when you are being taken to the cleaners.

    There are plenty of people who bought the con that they had climbed up the social ladder into the middle class. If they are two paychecks away from defaulting on their mortgages, they will now know it was a scam.

    What to do? I've no idea. A stitch up is a stitch up!

    Short of saving all my empty wine bottles and filling them with petrol and a bit of bog roll for a fuse!

    Our so called "democracy" is a sham and since the "milk snatcher" came to power in 1979, it will be 2015 when the UK will have had fifty years of right wing tosh to put up with.

    The "American Dream" didn't help. The Americans are pathologically averse to the word "left".

    BTW: good programme on channel 4 tonight about the insanity of the "war on drugs".


    Will that do ya? Hank and Sherfig and Monkeyfish?

    Sorry if I can't match your intellect or prose but you could at least acknowledge that I'm on your side!

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  174. Nap - keep going. A degree nowadays will get you a lot further than it did in my day !. I'm essentially talking about post grads who came out of Uni with a degree - straight into industry - and tried to tell us morons (who had worked in the industry for a few years), that we had it all wrong and it should be done this way or that. Only to find it fell flat on it's heels and screwed production up, until we put it back to the way it worked best. And sadly some of those guys never learned !

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  175. Charles
    As per my post to you the other night (perhaps you didn't read it) You've an analytical mind, but perhaps you didn't know this - I didn't go to uni until I was 27, and was making a living out of music - or failing miserably - for eight years prior to that.

    Along the way I learned one hell of a lot about human beings by taking any job I could. Warehouses, landscape gardening, site laborour, factories. I also had quite considerable MH problems at ages 19-22.

    If you ever feel like deferring your "education" to a later age I would advise it. And get out now and work among some real human beings. Frankly, they won't piss you off anywhere like as much as the people you'll come accross at uni. Neurotic self regarding tossers or - most likely - third rate wannabes and loudmouthed networking bastards.

    Keep reading your books, but get a job now. You can go back to uni but you can't replicate being among working people for a few years... whatever the environment... you really can't. And you'll anhiilate your degree when you do come to do it.

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  176. chekhov " but you could at least acknowledge that I'm on your side! '

    Why bother ?

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  177. "And you'll anhiilate your degree when you do come to do it."

    I meant you'll "walk" it...

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  178. What-o chekhov - I take it you didn't go to the Great Northern Piss-Up the other night ???

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  179. BW - I disagree. Charles get it early and get it out of the way !. At the age of 47 I would love to take a degree course, but havn't the time or the money to fund it. What I expect you will find are a lot more doors open to you once you attain the accolade. Don't worry about the

    "Neurotic self regarding tossers or - most likely - third rate wannabes and loudmouthed networking bastards."

    you'll meet them all the way through your working like. Learn to deal with them now rather than later !

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  180. BW to Nap --01;06 -- that earlier was seconded, but apparently not read either .

    We talk about politicians not having had a real job, but lots of people have been to uni and then just had one narrow sort of job too , which may be no more useful in life than 'parliamentary researcher'.

    Varied experiences and experiments recommended !

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  181. @frog: "why bother?"

    Dunno really, heard something about "solidarity" is that redundant?

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  182. Forg2 I can also agree with that, and with BW.

    Social experiences and experiments are fundamental to character building.

    Therefore Charles there is no right or wrong ! Your choice !

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  183. Bitterweed./taschia

    I really am looking hard to get a job- it is physically impossible. The study is with the OU so I can do it at the same time as work- if I can get work.

    TBH, I do feel a bit socially isolated, especially round with my peer group and my location. I am in the east end of Glasgow and all the students are in the centre or the west end. The mainstream universities do tend to operate as a sort of bubble, it is very hard to break into that social clique. Although I wouldn't fit into them anyway- them there middle class offspring seem to have an innate sense of self confidence and outgoing personality- something I lack. And honestly the young people round where I live, of course they are not bad people, but socialising with them is not comfortable, and their lifestyles and mine are different.

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  184. Both frog2 and tascia make valuable comments. I'm just thinking about different approaches to making the next decade count for you Nap. As you say - it's a collossal investment. What are your expecations of further academic studies? MA? further ?

    Paul - thanks for the Junior Walker track earlier.
    Nice.

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  185. Frog

    Read the banks article.

    On modularity. A module fits into an overall design - albeit it can stand alone within its own identity. Modular banks suggests that they can operate either as seperate institution yet come together as an over arching system as and when. This is self protective when they act together against other sectors.

    Without regulation they can create their own culture and ethos and design their own plans and objectives - these can also be without reference to the wider society and economy.

    Too tired tonight to think it thru but the more I read about huge banknig systems the more like secretive states they appear. Like states they can form both aggressive and defensive coalitions.

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  186. Charles
    Oh I see. OU. Get any work you can then I would say. Really. Like it's your oxygen. Forget your peer group aceptance. Trust me, you'll get so much more of that through work than just socialising. And anyways it will come like night follows day by the time your thirty-five - by forty you'll probably be hankering for isolation from it...

    Regards. Bed awaits.

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  187. chekhov - - solidarity can be there in real life, like demonstrating or otherwise working together .

    Theoretical solidarity doesn't add up to much !

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  188. @ Chekhov

    It's not redundant - Charles has an opportunity to make something of his life - , especially at his age. Whether he takes it or not is ultimately his decision. If it can progress to building a better future for himself, or those who may come to work for him, then it is more power to "solidarity".

    Maybe, just Maybe the future is with the young !

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  189. End the day with a tune

    What IS this girl on about ?

    Like it though...

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  190. BW, hopefully I will get a Bsc hons Open Degree which give me some flexibility in what I choose. Maybe I would study further, too early to think about that yet.

    Of course I want to work, but this is looking very less likely- making me so depressed. I never realised the world was built on such hypocrisy and deception. The recruiting process has been hijacked by PR/chicklit/skinny latte types who favour empty platitudes and bullshit over substance and integrity. I also categorically refuse to lie on my CV, or even spice things up with words that make me sound like I am selling myself because I think it is immoral. LOl- maybe I will have to live in a monastery- although I am not religious, the idea of monasticism has always appealed- maybe I have read too many Russian novels :).

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  191. Charlie

    Some people find their special interest early on in life - others , I am one ' am interested in so many things they never decide what to do when they grow up.

    Many have little choice - they go with what life offers.

    It is easy to feel isolated in a new and unfamiliar place. You will find friends. Now is a difficult time for lots of people, jobs are scarce and many people feel diheartened.

    You do have the cushion of a little money - it won't last forever - this perhaps lets you feel you can avoid situations you dislike or perhaps fear.

    Be confident, just jump in. you will often find friends and allies in the most unexpected places. people may seem 'different' cos they don't share your interests. you may get a pleasant surprise when you talk to them.

    I've got good and supportive friends who haven't read a book since they left school. The trick is to be genuinely interested in them - they will reciprocate. You may also be surprised to find out how much they do know.

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  192. @Nap

    White lies are acceptable on CV's. Just make sure u can back them up ! Just make sure it's within the boundaries of acceptability !

    Goto go to bed - nigth all !

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