21 August 2010


Valley in Tibet 
None are so busy as the fool and the knave.
-John Dryden


  1. Morning All!

    30 deg and sunny in Bruppet yesterday ... today looking set to be the same.

  2. Morning thauma. Warm here too.

  3. I've been reading the Governments Your Freedom website and it is both hilarious and frightening, there are some very weird people out there.

    Just read one entry about the smoking ban on which someone managed to drag immigration and muslims into the equation but my absolute favourite was the bloke explaining how speed bumps are a feminist conspiracy (he was deadly serious about it as well).

    Lucky you Thauma and MsChin it is warm here too but it's horrible humid rainy heat, roll on Autumn.

  4. Hi people!

    Thanks for the birthday good wishes special thanks to montana for the 'card'!

    Staying at daughter's now and using her computer - new laptop arrives Thurs! Awaiting news on purchase of flat.

    getting my own back from big pharma on tues/Wed - going to London to a meeting about the drug study i was on and about heart failure in general. the aim is to publicise heart failure in general. I am a good example of how drug ttherapy works apparently.

    So being collected by car to go to London Hotel and meal out in the evening at a restaurant in the convent garden area all paid for by them.

    Will be interviewed for a publicity video to give a patient's perspective.

    I was a bit queasy about it at first but frankly anything to publicise heart failure and how important it is to spot symptoms early when prognosis for drug therapy is good, I am in favour of. Rather the NHS did it frankly and wouldn't be able to justify taking their freebies but its got to be done. No-one knows about heart failure everyone I talk to assumes I've had a heart attack (I haven't).

    Daughter coming with me to give a perspective from the family point of view.

    Hopefully will be back to normal in a few weeks.

  5. Anne it sounds like what you are doing is for a good cause, remember to order the most expensive things from the menu (just kidding).

    Just out of interest, what are the symptoms people should be looking out for?

  6. Just parking a good post by DebW (never noticed her before):
    @ releasethedogs

    Because you lot are so blinded by your bigoted political ideology you cannot see that it is the public sector that is dragging this nation down and its the private sector with its energy, drive and ideas that is keeping it afloat.


    Ok, firstly please stop shouting, it's early on a Saturday morning and I haven't had my coffee yet.


    I work in the public sector. My salary comes from taxation. So, I provide services in return for that salary ( which, by the by is rather less munificent than I could have earned in the private sector but I have this pesky commitment to the values of public service).

    That salary comes from the public purse and goes back into the economy both directly in the form of income tax ,NI, VAT, fuel duty, Council Tax and indirectly in the form of purchases of the goods and services I use. There's very little left to put into savings but HSBC has the use of that very little and pays me a pittance in interest.

    You''ll be happy to know that my job is being outsourced ! Yes, as of March I'll be part of the private sector! So now I'm productive, right? And I can come onto CiF and be all smug about my private sector street cred right?

    Call me Dave can now boast that he's reduced the public sector and that jobs have been created in the private sector. Huzzah!

    Only guess what. My salary will still come from the government only now I'll work for a company who will want not only to provide the service but to make a profit. So less of that money will go to the service and more to shareholders or bosses. They will tend to be more tax efficient than the public sector so less of the government's money will find its way back into the economy.

    Meanwhile my post will be less secure so I'll be cutting back this putting less back into the economy. I'll also be looking for another job ( those pesky ethics again) and when I go I'll almost certainly be replaced by someone on a lower salary. The savings won't go to the service and the outsourcing company certainly won't be ringing Dave and saying " Hey look! We saved some money so we'll give you some of it back". No indeed, they''ll just make more profit and get their accountants to find a way of minimising tax liability.

    Meanwhile the person now doing my job will be on lousy terms and conditions, if they have family they may have to claim tax credits just to get by.

    releasethedogs please explain to me how , in this scenario , the country is better off.

  7. Very nice post from DebW Alisdair, it bothers me a lot that posts like that, that come from real life experience, are generally ignored in favour of those that come from 'received wisdom'.

    A lot of people seem to know (and know deep down in their souls) that public sector = waste and private sector = hard working money maker.

    I have always worked in the private sector but I seriously doubt that my last job as a betting shop manager was as valuable to society as say a nurse or a teacher or even the often maligned bin man.

  8. Morning all

    @Alisdair-that post sums things up perfectly.And is typical of the effect privatisation can and does have on ordinary working people.Those who used to be classified as ancillary workers in the public sector working for the NHS for instance have now largely been forced into the private sector with a subsequent decline in pay and conditions.
    (although their labour is still used by the public sector)

    Amongst those on the Right this is seen as progress.Although it has to be said NewLabour also did fuck all to reverse this.And maybe their introduction of the minimum wage etc simply drove more ancillary workers and other low paid workers into the Black economy where their pay and conditions have seen a further marked decline.Although the labour of these now 'illegal' workers is still used by the formal public and private secots alike.

    Right now i need a major transfusion of caffeine.

    @Jen-it.s dull and extremely humid down here as well.Cooler weather when it comes will be much appreciated.

  9. Breezy, overcast and 24° in Lower Normandy. Ideal for working outside !

  10. Hi Lester,
    From yesterday - no worries I didn't think you were telling me what to do. It's to my eternal shame that I nearly voted for the bunch of shits! I was just so angry and New Lab that it was tempting and much of their manifesto was pretty good. But as soon as I heard Clegg on the campaign trail I knew it would be a very right wing led Liberal party that would be making decisions.

    And also whenever they have run councils in the North they have privatised everything they touched! So I agree with you they are not left wing. They just pretend to be in places.


    I read your list of personal acheivements and acollades last night. Frankly I don't give a rats ass. Your views are vile. Really reactionary and right wing and you repeatedly use worn cliches to describe the poorest and most vulnerable and then give links to the Daily Mail for fucks sake!

    As for your defence of yourself about how you helped all these people whilst 're-structuring' and downsizing companies etc, well it reminded me a little bit of someone like Mark Thatcher saying it was okay what he tried to do in Africa because he gives a few quid a month to Oxfam.

    Unless you stop being a leading champion for vile, destructive, right wing ideologies I wouldn't care if you went and spent a year digging wells or something - you would still be part of the problem.

  11. When does the political become personal or vice versa even?

    I have a number of friends and acqauintances who i have profound political disagreements with but we still largely get along with each other.And any political disagreements we have never become too personal.

    Do some see that as a flaw in my political commitment i wonder?The fact that i don't despise someone for the simple fact they have a different politics to me.And btw i'm not talking about people whose politics are on the Far Right because i do instinctively despise them.

    I,m not going to fundamentally change the way i am just to fit in with anyone.But this automatic personalisation of the political to the extent some people can despise someone for simply having different political beliefs is something i'll never understand.Yet there are clearly people from across the whole political spectrum who will instictively despise anyone who in their opinion is off-message.

  12. Hello All

    am spending today setting up topic threads on ATL. Have started 2 so far. Am just posting bare bones of ideas. Please feel free to expand.

    My next self assigned task will be to recruit members and set up thread for useful links - everyone can then add to them.

    If Hank is around we need lots of taxation please.

  13. @Leni

    Heheh. For lots of taxation, I think Cameron will be happy to oblige if you're on a low income.

  14. Congratulations to Pakistan, on their fourth Test win at the Oval since 1954... damn well played.


  15. Princess - sometimes the Daily Heil (I hate it) runs stories, based on factual (Labour) government press releases, which Guardian editorialising chooses to spare its hyper-sensitive readership: there's nowhere else to link to. I am well aware you are talking about the fact that most IB claimants "failed" their fitness for work assessments, and my personal view that claiming to be incapacitated when you are not is just plain, simple, old-fashioned fraud. The results the Mail (alone) reported are all on the DWP website under archived Press Releases, and are uncontested.

    I find it interesting that parts of the MSM choose to ignore facts that do not suit their agenda.

    You have no idea about what I did in my professional career or how many people appreciated the service I gave them, so stop pretending otherwise. When I started, a bankrupt was bankrupt for life unless he/she could persuade a judge that he/she was a reformed character, unlikely to sin again, and eat gobs full of humble pie in open court proceedings likely to be reported in the local rag. When I finished, no bankrupt saw the inside of a courtroom, no press coverage happened, no first-time honest bankrupt could be bankrupt for more than a year (often far less) and was treated as a valuable member of society best returned to the pool of economically productive people as soon as possible (hopefully a bit wiser) rather than be stigmatised for life.

    I spent 30 years campaigning for that. And alternatives to bankruptcy like IVAs and debts arrangement orders...

    Anyway, believe it or not I'm glad you've got some volunteering work and wish you well with it.

  16. Leni@ATL -- good on you , that's serious biz . I've a few links, but reckon you have most already, so will not clutter the threads there !

    Thanks for the answers on CBT - cognitive behavioural therapy - ideological racket , and racketeering, at 2.00 AM on yesterday's thread.

    Paul 14.19 -- agreed with last para !
    Out now for some physical activity after my siesta .

  17. Leni

    The Coalition for Resistance, together with various unions have got planning meetings coming up all over the country and have posted some details up on ATL.

    If anyone lives near these they might want to go along and check them out.

  18. Sheff

    Have seen your reply - and Shaz's - replies on ATL.Thanks. Good stuff. Have posted another general thread starter.

    We now need new members - otherwise we will simply be repeating same points and discussions we have here !

  19. @Leni:

    I haven't looked in on ATL recently, so perhaps you know of this blog for the Tax Justice Network already. I stumbled upon it awhile back -- can't remember how -- and have been meaning to post a link here to it for ages, but just haven't for one reason or another. Here's a link to their main website. I'll take a look at ATL and post the links there, too.

  20. Montana

    Good- have justed prepared a Taxation heading. No contributions as yet. Be the first. x

  21. I think I am typing too quickly - justed should have been just posted.

    I.m sure you are all bright enough to realise this.

  22. Links are there, Leni.

    Completely off topic question:

    Anyone ever heard of broccolini? I'm watching Jacques Pepin's Fast Food My Way right now and he's just made a broccolini (that's what it sounds like, anyway) ragout. The vegetable in question looks almost like a cross between broccoli and asparagus.

  23. Montana

    Didn't think I did, but when I googled 'broccolini', it turns out it's something called 'Tender stem broccoli' which we get here.


    I've put a link in UT Resources to a useful list of changes coming in the benefit system.

  24. MsChin - some worrying changes in store... reducing HB to 90% of eligible rent after 12mths for JSA claimants??

    Not to mention

    From 2020

    The government intends child poverty to end.

  25. Sorry - not eligible rent - initial award. Whatever - JSA has been generally accepted as a subsistence level of income - how are claimants supposed to find 10% of their rent on top of everything else?

  26. Have finished stint for today of providing thread topics on ATL - we now have several more.

    Later on I will add links provided here onto appropriate threads.

    Thanks all.

  27. Reductions in already subsistence levels of benefit are been made to make life as uncomfortable as possible for benefit claimants.Next on the list will probably be plans to make the labout market even more 'flexible'.Freezing the minimum wage,less protection against unfair dismissal,no protection for people forced to work more than 48 hours per week,forcing those on housing benefit in unemployment blackspots to relocate etc etc.

    The 'American Dream' is well on it's way to becoming a fact of life here in Old Blighty.

  28. It's very quiet in this pub, tonight. I'll sling a coin in the jukebox. And put a 10p on the pool table if anyone wants to play...

    Charles Kennedy would defect to Labour, if they were anything close to the original party. Right now, it would be like leaving Girls Aloud to join the Spice Girls.

  29. Some stats from Unum - aimed of course at selling income protection insurance.

    19th July 2010

    "On average, UK workers could survive for just 4 weeks without full pay
    5.5 million UK workers have absolutely no financial back-up should they be unable to work
    25% of workers would have to rely on their partner to support them and 24% on their family
    2 million workers currently in employment have had to take six months or more off work during their career "

    Workers in Wales are the most exposed - hardly surprising as these are areas of low wages and insecure employment.

    These stats should be used by gvt. to improve job and wage protection - they will probably been seen as evidence of fecklessness and prodigality (is that right word ?) among the lower orders.

    5.5 million workers becomes a huge amount of people at risk when we factor in their families.

  30. Should have written "Workers in Wales AND NE England are the most exposed " - I'm going crossed eyed from too much screen gazing.

  31. Every time some one posts on ATL it shows up in my inbox. Is this supposed to happen?
    I don't mind but it could be a security concern for some people.

    For instance if their posts on ATL are getting sent to e-mail addresses without their knowledge and therefore unauthorized.

  32. Habib

    We need some jollification in our lives.

    Can you influence the weather ? Sunshine please.

    Strange is as strange does - don't mind happy or loner strange - it's the nasties get me down.

  33. chekhov -- you can click a box to stop it

  34. chekhov

    Sory - I must have bombarded you today. You can switch it off - go to top right of page and click on "edit my membersip" A box will appear - tick the top option. It is quite straight forward - you will see it there.

    Sorry - hope I haven't inundated anyone else.

  35. chekhov - click the 'edit my membership' link on the top left of the home page, then select 'no email'.

  36. Hi leni, rain coming and the combines here are flat out all around me .

    Back again to the garden before it comes , check on rainwater-collection, do some more hoeing .

    Thanks for music heyhabib.

  37. Well, Leni, I can't even influence where my cats decide to pee... here's a song from a girl band I liked. Sort of relevant.

  38. @habib

    10p for the pool table? Where do you drink? The 1970s?

  39. Frog

    Hello - you must live on the flatlands. Farmers here do contour ploughing - can be hazardous.

    I can only hoe etc while sitting down so tend to be a perma gardener with very little soil disturbance. Have to rely on resident mole to turn it all over.

  40. This place has been a bit of a Ghost Town recently.

  41. Right, I'm off down to the restaurant in the village with my republicdaughter. Everyone else has gone to a wedding. Catch you all later.

  42. Leni - everywhere is flatlands compared to where you are :)
    Thanks for the music break, out again while there's light.

  43. Classy music, Paul, here's one I used to play before a pub team game of pool.

  44. We lost more than we won, but they were happy times.

  45. Habib

    Am not really a Bowie fan meself.This Tune from the Godfather of Soul however has my name on it.Was made a bit before my time but i think still sounds good.Hank likes it as well:-)

  46. Has anyone seen any coverage of the proposed Google-Verizon deal and the possible implications for future "two tier" access to the internet?

    No doubt there is reason for this story slipping beneath the radar.

  47. Good stuff, shaz, I like it.

  48. Good article in todays Indy by Howard Jacobson on "Edexcel" taking over the admin of examinations.

  49. Paul
    "Hank likes it as well:-)"
    That may be important to you, but I think he's a racist, self absorbed, egotistical prat.

    But hey, what do I know?

  50. Habib

    Well that 'joke' went down like a lead balloon.Hank hates JB.Chill!

  51. Say yes to the purple people.


    The purple people challenge Berlusconi.

  52. habib

    Let's keep things MELLOWtonight.

  53. Chekhov - is there a link? The only ref to Edexcel I could find online was this one re simplifying language in exam questions... still pretty depressing...

  54. Leni - they should adopt that Gogol Bordello track as their anthem...

  55. I might have become overly suspicious but I fear Edexel are trying to set standards and push their own org. to the fore


    The Gogol song always gets people to their feet..

  56. Good one Habib.
    Off to do some work. Laters all.

  57. habib

    Have never been surfing.Deprived childhood and all that.Was shoved up a chimney when i was 6.:-)

    This is for any UT Hippies

  58. I know it's vacuous, but it made me laugh... Cake Wrecks... just seen it recommended on HIGNFY...

  59. Seems like i'm on me own tonight.

    Here's a tune from Johnny Taylorfor all the lurkers.


  60. Montana

    Seem to remember you like The Brothers Johnson so
    this one's for you.

  61. Hello Paul, I was busy spotting continuity errors on "The Bourne Identity" on ITV whilst waiting for my new computer to behave itself!

  62. Hi Paul And Chekhov

    I am just returned. No party tonight then ? Haven't watched any tv tonight chekhov.

  63. This is good


    (Can't be arsed to link)

  64. Hi chekhov and Leni

    From one technophobe to another i wish you all the best with your new computer.

    Love this Herbie Hancock number

  65. Oh, just read stevehill's response from yesterday's thread.

    The reform of the bankruptcy laws, which you were instrumental in, are a fucking joke. They basically give carte blanche to every fucking wide boy and chancer to set up a business, rack up big debts, and then walk away and start again under another name.

    The bankruptcy laws in this country are a joke. And you're taking credit for this joke? You fucking idiot.

    I listened to the administrator of a football club the other day patting himself on the back for taking the club out of administration having paid a penny in the pound of the debts that were owed. This was done by the new owners stumping up a million.

    So £99M of debts to the taxman and to genuine businesses were written off, thanks to you, steve.

    How the fuck does that help anyone other than fly-by-night pirates like you and your mates?

    You're full of shit.

  66. Evening Hank/Bitterweed

    Yep i like richie havens.Now i know your views on the Godfather of Soul Hank but what about The JB,s

  67. Hello Leni: oh dear, just checked out Johann Hari at the Indy having a pop at the management consultancy scam.

    I have to declare in interest here since I'm typing these words on a lap top given to me by my twin sister who is, herself, a director of an international firm of consultants.

    I frequently cut and paste stuff from here and elsewhere and send it to her and ask her what she thinks.

    I'll have to paraphrase and you will no doubt read between the lines,(we all do) but I mentioned that some us are concerned about the nature of our democracy.

    The response I got was something along the lines of; "well. I agree our democracy is not all it's cracked up to be but at least we have one"

    I suggested that if some one posted that on this site or on Cif for that matter they would probably, sooner or later, get some one weighing in with: "Well if your idea of democracy is a stitch up by the plutocrats then you might begin to wonder if you are not part of the problem rather than the solution"

    It's a tricky business debating politics within families.
    I have four sisters and I love them all but we do fall out now and again.

    Nowt, unusual about that I suppose!

  68. Couldn't get it to load, Paul.


    Anyway, the Guardian Guide had a piece by Paolo Hewitt about Northern Soul, so here's one of its choicest cuts


  69. hekhov
    mt brother is so far to the right i can hardly see him from where I stand. Influence of his wife - a god fearing woman who thinks I wasted my life and intelligence working with the unworthy. I reckon she wears a Britannia helmet in bed.

    Brother escapes her once in a while and goes off guerilla planting across the town. He is otherwise obedient. She is a fearsome woman.

    We don't really have democracy as we would understand it. Democracy has to allow for degrees of individual freedom which is lacking to those short of resources and with no control over the economy.

    I don't think there has ever been a true democracy - simply a name for various types of gvt.

  70. Hank

    Don't know so much about Frank Wilson.If you're a Northern Soul man though you may well have come across
    this lady

  71. And just to prove habib right, here's a song I love from redneck racist country...


    and a medley from more white racists..


    ..and another great performance from Nashville. Spoilt only by the fact that a black dude butts into the frame. Hated that, being the racist prat I am. Anyhow...


  72. Evening Hank

    are you in biting mode tonight ?

    for you


  73. Apologise if i'm crossing any boundaries here but
    this tune is perfect for those in the mood for lurve!!

  74. Hi Leni

    I don't bite. I snarl, but there's always a smile behind the snarl.

    @Paul - try Sandi Sheldon and Barbara McNair.

  75. Hank -- This is from the FT , and I thought of Steve when I saw it .

    Bankrupt Europeans are flocking to London

    City is getting a bad name as a haven for those fleeing creditors

    In recent weeks, these fears have been further reinforced with companies from Greece and the Netherlands moving their “centres of main interest” to London so that they fall under English law in apparent first steps towards their own debt restructurings.
    While this trend of jurisdiction shopping for insolvency is not new, in the wake of the credit crisis, the losses for debt investors when companies shift to England can be searingly painful.

    Last year, the owners of Wind Hellas, a Greek mobile phone operator, kept control of the business in exchange for fresh funds in a restructuring that wiped out more than €1bn of its unsecured bonds. It was the UK’s biggest pre-packaged administration. In recent weeks, Hellas has told lenders it is moving other funding vehicles to London, as the Greek debt crisis leads the company for a second time to seek the shelter of England should it require a further restructuring.

    The article does provide the other side to the story, arguing that the UK legislation is clearer than the Europeans generally, so less messy, and saves more from the wreckage like the US Chapter 11.

    It does look like a charter for lousy management and wide boys. They get to stay in place .

  76. @Leni: I tried to choose my words carefully so that no one could get hold of the wrong end of the stick!

    My sister is not of a right wing persuasion.
    On the contrary she confounded us all to be the first to jump ship and vote Labour and just to prove it wasn't a gesture she returned her child tax credit because she didn't need it.

    Just wanted to clarify that my sister isn't a raving Tory.

    However , that doesn't mean I don't worry about what she teaches global corporations about how they should run their businesses!

  77. Hank

    Cheers for that.Just had a listen to Sandi Sheldon.If you're into that style of music am i right in thinking you probably like these Bad Boys

  78. Oh yeh, love the Temptations, even though they're black and I'm a racist.

    This, for me, is the Temptations's finest...


  79. chekhov

    I did not suggest your sister was a tory - just remarking on family differences.

  80. Hank

    My favourite Temptations track is The Jones

  81. I,m signing off now.

    Nite all.

  82. That's ok Leni. I wasn't inferring you were suggesting anything.

    Sorry if that's how it came across.

    I was just trying to clarify that my relationship with my sister isn't a left v right issue.

  83. @frog2 - yeh, thanks for that. Insolvency specialists, like stevehill, wank on and on about their love of the free market, knowing as they do that the failures of the free market are always underwritten by the state and by ordinary taxpayers.

    Just as banks are too big to fail, so need to get bailed out by taxpayers.

    And similarly foreign adventures in Iraq, Afghanistan, or wherever the latest danger is, are paid for by taxpayers while taxpayer money gets siphoned off to the corporations.

    We've sat by for the last ten years and watched the biggest redistribution of wealth from poor to rich.

    And the Guardian, and its happy clappy idiots who think that they've done their bit as long as they call Blair a wanker, have been complicit.

    It's sad that Sun readers fall for this shit.

    It's fucking tragic that people who claim to be better informed fall for it.

    Blair and Bush are war criminals. But they're just the front men.

    There's plenty more who need to be called before War Crimes Tribunals.

    If it's a war crime to profit from the death or the impoverishment of the poor, then a place in the dock should be made available for slimy amoralist capitalists like stevehill.

    It makes me fucking laugh when stevehill pontificates about Iraq, Blair, the ICC, the Hague, etc.

    If there was any justice, he'd be in the next courtroom at the Hague along with his shyster mates.

  84. @leni - no smile behind the snarl there btw.

    I fucking hate steve hill and all he stands for: the free market is dynamic and will only get more dynamic if the market is deregulated; stevehill and his mates need less regulation, less red tape and lower taxes; stevehill and his mates can make this country richer if only the government could legislate on trade union rights; stevehill and his mates believe in the market and hate the state, but will use the state if it provides plods in uniform to kick the shit out of rival economic agents with different views...

    Steve Hill is a liar. All this shit he spouts about libertarianism ignores the fact that the Thatcherite system he loves so much was built on the use of a police state.

    That's the hypocrisy at the heart of free-market liberals. They claim to believe in freedom and claim to despise the state, but they deny freedom to those they exploit and they use the state to do so.

    Steve Hill is a hypocritical lying wanker.

  85. So the smear of Julian Assange in accusing him of rape was made and hopefully laid to rest within 24 hours.

    Some amazing stuff on Wikileaks - relative trivialities through to CIA plans to influence German and French media output over this summer concerning those nations involvement in Afghanistan, never mind the 70 000 war documents recently released.

    I'm wondering what's in the Wikileaks insurance file. Is it a bluff or has it some real dirt within?

    A shame we'll probably only find out if the US administration gets it's way and has Assange's guts.

  86. Hank

    They believe in the freedom of the market - not in freedom of the people.

    they are free raptors circling captive prey.

  87. @stevehill - btw, don't think that just because I think you're a hypocritical lying wanker, it doesn't mean that you're not welcome on here.

    God bless ya, steve, I might hate ya but I luv ya really. I'm a Guardian reader, so I might say some terrible things about you and people like you if I've been listening to Radio 4 recently, but I don't hate you really. I don't hate anybody.

    It's all just a game really.

    You're always welcome on here, steve.Stevie. Can I call you StevieH?

    We all love and respect you, Lord Steven Hill. And we're all clubbing together to buy you a chin.

    Any chance that you can invite Henry Kissinger along soon?

    There's plenty of posters on here who hate Kissinger in theory, but if he turned up, they'd be falling over themselves to kiss his arse.

  88. Hank

    Imagine, you've one gun, two bullets, and a license to kill. Who'd you shoot?

    Thatcher would be first for me, just for the magnitude of shit she bought down in my locale during the early eighties.

    Kissinger would be number two for me, all the lying and killing he was involved in.

    And ffs don't say Steve Hill !

  89. This comment has been removed by the author.

  90. Hank

    Were Kissinger to appear I,m not sure what I'ld do - turn my back or attack him.

  91. Insomniacs anonymous back again.

    One gun and two bullets with a licence to kill?

    I'd go for Thatcher and Blair.

    And after the killing i'd listen to this tune to calm me down.

  92. Hank

    Maggie then Mark ? They both deserve it.

    Good tune - done with Sir Paul Macca on the album.

    Like this guitar playing myself and Billy says some wise words at the start.


    Can't do a link, sorry.

  93. Paul

    That might well calm you down, superstrength aural valium it had me nodding off after 20 seconds.

    Oh, and Blair raises ther number of bullets up to 3, good call.

  94. Give me one gun, six bullets and a licence to kill...

    I'd use every fucking bullet on Thatcher.

    I hope that she suffers the worst that Dr Alzheimer can inflict. I really really fucking hope that she suffers night terrors, paranoia, cold sweats, the realisation that her children fucking hate her, and I really hope she has a moment of lucidity in which she realises why she is so hated.

    And if there is a heaven and a hell, which I sincerely doubt, I hope that she kids herself along that she's going to the better place and gets a really fucking sinking feeling in her gut when she gets turned away.

    I hope she suffers for a long time.

  95. Didn't Kissinger being awarded the Noble Peace prize prompt some one to say that satire was dead in the water or some such?

  96. Hank

    Hear that really loud sigh of relief?

    That's Steve Hill that is.

  97. Talk of Kissinger always gets me thinking of this


    one of the best obits ever written.

  98. Some people of both sexes here think i have a problem with women.Well i plead guilty to having a problem with some women.Thatcher was viewed by some misguided feminists as being a freak of nature.Thing is she wasn,t.Thatcher had plenty of support amongst women..And in the real world there are plenty of women who are every bit as hard faced ,insensitive,self-centred,single-minded and abusive as Thatcher was.Just as there are plenty of men who are every bit as hard faced,insensitive,self-centred ,single-minded and abusive as Thatcher was.

    Part of the deal of the sexes being equal has to be that women can't hide behind the veneer of being sugar'n'spice when they are clearly not.Women IMO are every bit as good,bad and mediocre as men.And some of the men and women who are bad are that way because women,as well as men made them that way.

    LaRit i know who won't accept this but often the way we turn out depends on the quality of parenting we experience as children.And women are every bit as likely as men to be abusive parents.Women fuck up their childrens lives every bit as much as men.And whilst men can be more abusive in some ways women are just as abusive in others.And that IMO is not acknowleged as much as it should be.

  99. chekhov

    I worked with viets in the 80s - lots of the kids suffered memingitis - caught in the camps in Hong Kong - all left with multiple handicaps. Kids blinded in the bombing of the North - as well as youngsters from Laos who swam the Mekong delta to escape. Many drowned.

    Kissinger and his cohorts are red rag to bull as far as I am concerned.

    Games theory devils - using people as less than pawns on a world they saw as their playing board.

    Hate war - but more than that I hate the people who prosper from it.

  100. @chekhov - yep. Tom Lerner.

    @Haimona - stevehill would love the idea that he was worthy of a bullet.

    He's not. He should be choked on the clasp of the cheap Chinese bra of his Thai bride.

  101. Paul

    Conversely abusive women, and as an extreme example Myra Hyndley, are demonised by the press to a far greater extent then men who commit similar crimes.

    Brady was never the same focus of attention as his accommplice.

  102. @Haimona - Paul's part of a minority too.

    Just like you.

    You've both got crosses to bear.

    Carry on now, the pair of you, while the class war peters to a halt.

    Ho fucking hum.

  103. Hank

    You what? Crosses to bear? What are you on about?

    The only cross I'm bearing right now is having just rolled up the last of my dog ends I have to wait till 7am for the shop to open to buy bacci

    a)because it's Sunday and

    b) because some dickheads firebombed the local 24 hour garage a couple of months ago in some half arsed racist attack.

    Or do you know something I don't ?

  104. It won't seem so bad in the morning, haimona.

  105. Hank

    What are you doing right now in pursuit of the class war? Working on union business? Agitating and arming the masses?

    I doubt it.

    You're more likely to be sinking into a Sunday morning hangover.

    Lucky you!

    The revolution ain't going to be happening on the weekend and I'll put my bacci money on that.

  106. @Haimona - heh heh

    I gave up on union business a year or two ago.

    The reason why I gave up on it explains a lot about my contempt for middle class liberal hypocrites.

  107. Paul

    can't we just agree that men and women both sre just human beings - with all that implies.

    Gender does not automatically endow us with saintliness any more than it marks us as devils.

  108. @Hank

    Like I said the other day Bob Crow strikes me as the best hope for leading a working class fight. He's radical, has the strength of good leadership and doesn't give a shit what his opponents say about him or his attitude. Most importantly, he wins his battles. He certainly makes the candidates for the Labour leadership look like the careerist shits they are.

  109. Snapshackle 8.08AM
    That a party of Government should be impressed by the likes of Philip Green I find profoundly depressing.
    The only thing is does do is graphically show that the present Tory administration does not have the depth or breath of intellect or moral rigor that we have every right to expect from the Government of a major nation.

    Excellently put ! The Indie headlines this morning on Whitehall's 30,000 whistleblowers on this government"s consultation on cost-cutting. Their journalists selected 80 suggestions from the zany ,such as "selling Cornwall" to buying a spare part on google at 20% of the price of the "appproved supplier " here. Well worth a look.
    They also have an editorial cautiously approving the initiative and telling us what we already knew , that " In any organisation, some of the people best able to identify waste and to devise more efficient ways of achieving better results are the staff who actually do the work."

    New Labour with their vast extension of managerialism and the associated over-use of consultants proved that they just did not know this simple fact. Respect for people lower down the hierarchies was completely absent, and their pay stagnated while those above grew in numbers and received more and more.

    So the ideas and intelligence are already there from within, and just perhaps, some Coalition ministers will make use of them, but I'm not holding my breath. The continuation of the disgraceful treatment of the genuinely disabled by New Labour continues apace, and it appears that many in the Coalition have the same contempt for working people too.

    I do think that the Guardian could have put more effort into this cost-cutting than a lightweight attack on the odious Mr Green, because there is the serious probability that we are in for years of low growth.

  110. Hank, you have serious issues. Substance abuse issues at a guess. Get help.

    Meanwhile I have no intention of wasting my time trying to engage you in any kind of meaningful conversation: you're not capable of that.