24 March 2010


James VI of Scotland became James I of England in 1603.  Archbishop Oscar Romero was assassinated while celebrating the mass in San Salvador in 1980.  The Exxon Valdez struck the Bligh Reef, spilling 240,000 barrels of oil into the Prince William Sound in 1989.  Two boys, aged 13 and 11, opened fire on fellow students of Westside Middle School in Jonesboro, Arkansas, in 1998.  They killed four girls, aged 11 and 12 and a 32 year old teacher and injuring 10 others.

Born today:  William Morris (1834-1896), Harry Houdini (1874-1926), Malcolm Muggeridge (1903-1990), Steve McQueen (1930-1980), Nick Lowe (1949) and Nena (1960).

It is the feast day of Catherine of Vadstena.


  1. A cup of darjeeling with thee Montana - it's the Untrusted Tea Party!

  2. Whittard's Ceylon here... Morning.

    A couple of online bargains; First, Bowie fans will find all his albums in the Amazon UK MP3 download section for between three and four pounds each. I have filled in some gaps.

    And second, there's a useful list of free films online here. Some good stuff, including a couple of Kurosawa classics and some Hitchcock.

    Here end my good deeds for the day. Just about to start reading the news, which will undoubtedly darken the mood.

  3. Morning all-although it feels like the middle of
    the night for me.Hope you are better Montana.And
    i hope everyone is set for Budget 2010.No doubt
    we will be told that things ain,t quite as bad
    as they seem.And if we stick with New Labour
    things will only get better!!!Right i need more
    kip.Night all!

  4. Philippa,

    You asked yesterday about animal testing for cosmetics in the UK. The short answer is no, it's not allowed. The long answer is "define cosmetics" as technically a company may be allowed to test e.g. a skin cream that had medicinal properties (e.g. eczema treatment).

    All animal testing in the UK is regulated by the Home Office, and you have to have a licence from them before starting, they define a "permissible purpose" as:

    "The prevention (whether by the testing of any product or otherwise) or the diagnosis or treatment of disease, ill-health or abnormality, or their effects, in man, animals or plants;

    The assessment, detection, regulation or modification of physiological conditions in man, animals or plants;

    The protection of the natural environment in the interests of the health or welfare of man or animals;

    The advancement of knowledge in biological or behavioural sciences;

    Education or training other than in primary or secondary schools;

    Forensic enquiries;

    The breeding of animals for experimental or other scientific use. This generally refers to genetically modified animals or animals with harmful mutations."



    The key point obviously hinges on the definitions of "disease, ill-health or abnormality, or their effects" and "physiological conditions" but the hoops you have to jump through to get a licence are (quite rightly) high and tiny, and there's no way on earth they'd define short eyelashes as an abnormality!

  5. Hi guys, Hi Dot that's more like it : ), you're a resource Dot, sure you must be a goldmine of info etc

    Take care (I slept fine, funny dreams)

  6. William Morris (1834-1896).........last time I lived in a house we had Morris wallpaper and curtains.........I really liked his designs and I'm tempted to use them again in the brewhouse cum library.

    I've still got half a roll of this:
    A Morris favourite

    which I have been intending to put up on one of the van walls for the last decade. I find it one of the more soothing of Bill's prints some of which can be a torture on a tired eye.

    Unfortunately when my beloved sometime went her separate way she finished up with the matching curtains.....still it would have been a sacrilege to cut down such nice curtains to fit a tramps van.

    This morning I was drinking Yorkshire tea (special brew for hard water areas) from Taylors of Harrogate..

  7. Thanks Dot - v informative (and reassuring). The wiki page seemed a bit out of date - referred to the EU planning a general ban 'in 2009' and was clearly (from the links) written in 2003...

  8. Tetley for me chaps. Have 300 words left to do today, communist/ism jokes any body? C'mon comrades!

  9. @Turminder - I assume you've got all the classics like the tea break/'they're all communists in here' one, or the car delivery one?

  10. TXuss, who are you writing it for/for whom are you writing? Kinda helps to know who the target audience is with jokes...with some of mine,there's offence which then collapses into astonished laughter, and then there's offence which leads to silence,tumbleweed rolling across the room,measure being taken etc. Can be quite a fine line.

  11. a drunk communist stumbles into a bar with a lobster under his arm

    "pint of bitter if you please"

    "certainly sir" says the cheerful barman

    " that's fucking civil of you, last three bars I'v been in wouldn't serve me 'cos I'm pissed. Just for that you can have me lobster"

    "Thank you very much sir, I'll take him home for dinner"

    "nah he's had his dinner, take him out to a show............"

    Sorry turminder I only really know one joke. Sometimes it involves the Pope and sometimes not - but always the lobster.

    Good luck with the 300.

  12. You can substitute Ivan, and vodka, and Siberian lobster, and ballet/poetry reading if you want to be racist...

  13. Morning all.(Sainsbury's Red Label for me, though I prefer coffee first thing in the morning!)

    Turminder - Under capitalism, man exploits man. Under communism, it's the other way round.

  14. What's all this about a tea party? I'm drinking instant coffee, I'm afraid.

  15. Have gone off on one on the leader article. Grrrrrrr. They really are banking on Purnell as some sort of saviour figure, aren't they? Bloody ridiculous. With friends like that, as they say...

  16. Sainsbury's Taste The Difference Kenyan for me. But if I can't get that then the Co-Op's Fairtrade is a good substitute.

    I note Darling is planning to abolish stamp duty on houses that cost less than 250k. Funny how Labour couldn't afford to do that when the economy was booming but they can when it's likely that it'll be the Tories who'll need to cover the costs or play the bad guy and repeal it.

    Spherical bastards, as Fritz Zwicki once said. Bastards whichever way you look at them.

    Sub-atomic particle bastards if you ask me. One totally indistinguishable from another.

  17. LordS - heh heh. What are those things that act like particles one minute and like waves the next? Also a good analogy for our straw in the wind, all things to all (rich) people, pols...

  18. You're welcome Philippa,

    Incidentally animal testing is one area where EU policy is unlikely to have much effect on the UK: we've already got much tighter regulations than most of the rest of Europe (and the world). I know of at least one scientist contemplating a move to the continent to get around our regs (can't provide more details for anonymities sake). This neatly illustrates the catch22 animal rights protesters in the UK are up against: any further tightening of our regs is likely to just drive testing abroad, where it'll probably be worse for the animals concerned!

  19. Theory says everything exhibits wave/particle duality, Philippa. Even you and I can be described by (rather absurdly complicated) wave equations.

    But any atomic/subatomic particle is good for observing it.

  20. 'ight LordS - even I spotted when that thologian chappy described them as 'being' waves and particles rather than 'acting like' waves and particles, when he tried to prove God was a cow, or something. God bless John Gribbin, all I can say...

    Dot - thought as much, from the brief search I did. The Wiki page referred to L'Oreal taking an ECJ case trying to stop the EU-wide ban, but I can't find any detail on the Court site, it may have been withdrawn. Which tickled me as I understand L'Oreal has recently been recognised as one of the most ethical companies, according to some think tank or other (disclaimer - several of my friends work for DNM, the company that hosts this news-site, and many others in the fields of food supplements, pharma, etc)

  21. One of my physics heroes is Lous de Broglie ... not only the first man to theorise the matter wave but also a French aristocrat.

    I think that's pretty darn cool!

  22. Socialism: You have 2 cows and you give one to your neighbour.

    communism: You have 2 cows; the Government takes both and gives you some milk, for which you will be grateful (or else).

    Fascism: You have 2 cows; the Government takes both and sells you some milk.Not buying is not allowed.

    Nazism: You have 2 cows; the Government takes both and shoots you.

    Bureaucratism: You have 2 cows; the Government takes both, shoots one, milks the other and throws the milk away.

    neo-liberalism:You have 2 cows. The Government seizes one and sells it cheap to its corporate cronies,then forces the other to produce the milk of four cows. Later, you are required to foot the bill for a consultant to analyse why the cow dropped dead.

    Counter Culture: 'Wow, dig it, like there's these 2 cows, man, grazing in the hemp field. You gotta have some of this milk!'

    Surrealism: You have two giraffes. The government requires you to take harmonica lessons.

    Fatalist: You have 2 doomed cows

  23. Hi guys, (Hi LordS hope you soon de-exiled : ) )

    Am a weird nerd wavicle and go noodly now and then and spinny and loopy haha wheeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

    How many communists does it take to cahnge a light bulb?



  24. Thanks, pen. Hope things are well with yourself.

    I emailed the mods yesterday, and was ignored. I've emailed the mods today, and have thus far remained ignored.

    I'm in this for the long haul!

  25. Ok guys it's for this BBC comp my premise is that Red Clyedside lead to an independent communist Scotland in the 30s, then the re-building of hadrian's wall, like the N/S korea thing in the 60s. It's a sit com (prov title The Red Saltire) where, with some sort of glasnost, an Engilsh Documentary crew come to Leith, in 2010, to film the family life of Tractor McKenzie, a welder, His son is married to a Korean girl. But the son is secretly plotting against the state...

  26. Sounds interesting, Turminder. Citizen Smith for an indepenent Scotland?

    I remember reading a rather good detective noir book about an independent Scotland with some sort of wall built around the place, or perhaps it was just Edinburgh. The book was based around Leith and the title was some sort of pun on the waters ... "Waters Of Death" or something similar. Have you read that perchance?

  27. It's fin de siècle politics at the Grauniad these days, it really is. They've been so long frotting against the leg of power, so long having conversations amongst themselves and so long articulating the New Labour line, that they can't comprehend that any solutions can be found anywhere else.

    If there's a problem, it's not of their causing; if there's an answer, it can't be found outside of the Guardian/Third Way/Oxford PPE consensus. I've given up on Waddya threads telling them waddi want to see on CiF. I've belatedly realized that they're asking for stuff within their comfort zone. That they can go through the biggest economic collapse in 60 years and not have a single working-class expression of it tells you all you need to know about The Guardian.

    Frankly, neither New Labour or The Guardian could give a fuck about NEETs dying in their 30s, illegal immigrants working below minimum wage, suicides amongst people who've lost job and home, the elderly rotting in care or freezing in their homes.

    This is where Purnell, Harman and the rest of the identity politicians have brought us to. A place where if there's no glamour attached to a cause, no liberal kudos for supporting their aims, and they don't see their faces at dinner parties, they just don't matter.


  28. @LordS - Ken McLeod has done some stuff like that; his new one, The Restoration Game, springs to mind, as do parts of his earlier The Execution Channel and The Night Sessions. There's also a short story called Sidewinders, an alternative history with a wall between England and Scotland, built in London (IIRC). Must look it up.

  29. This comment has been removed by the author.

  30. Cheers Peter & LordS. N thanks for the jokes guys. Going out for a bit, then have to try for the big finish!

  31. "It's Budget Day, and there's a picket line outside the Treasury..."
    To be fair, that's bloody funny from Dave.

  32. Turminder good luck with the comp, Ben Lewis' Hammer and Tickle might be useful for the jokes (was reviewed by Noel Malcolm in Telegraph I think)

    Lord S that don't sound good about the mods. I assume it's just a staff shortage but there is always the possibility they may have changed their minds about letting you back.

  33. Right. Budget bingo cards, anyone?

  34. "A place where if there's no glamour attached to a cause, no liberal kudos for supporting their aims, and they don't see their faces at dinner parties, they just don't matter."

    Its fitting for the "me, me, me" ethos though - even empathy and care for others becomes a self fulfilling pursuit, like shopping, they drape themselves in noble causes.

  35. "Budget bingo cards, anyone?"

    1. "Growth"
    2. "efficiency savings"
    3. "Restructuring"
    4. "Modernisation"
    5. "Fairness"
    6. "Investment"

    I reckon that will just about cover it.

  36. Message for BeautifulBurnout,

    Hi BB, just saw your post from yesterday. We've settled in fine, fortunately my work had found us a flat so it was no problems moving in. The place is a bit bare while we wait for our furniture and stuff to be shipped over. However we have internet connection, which is the main thing ;)


    hope the move goes well.

    Alisdair/RapidEddie, great posts.

    Turminder, my favourite crap joke is:

    A guy walks into the Army & Navy stores in Partick. He walks up to the counter and says ''here pal, do you have any camouflage jackets?''

    The assistant replies ''Aye, but we cannae find them.''

  37. Hi guys,

    TXuss, sounds neat and I just love those korean girls mmmmm

    Oi Jay don't knock shopping I am a friend of the market, the agora, the forum duh nowt wrong with it haha you know it is a baisic social exchange???????

    RE the G blah if you don't like it don't read it duh it's not so bad is it? Politics shmolotics

    I'm a free moral agent not an apparatchik

  38. Your Grace,

    Your crap joke reminded me of another, even worse one:

    Woman locks her car keys in the car with her baby, distraught she asks a man in the car park for help, he walks up to her drivers door and appears to dry hump her door lock.

    Woman "What the hell are you doing?"

    Man "relax: see, (opening car door) I'm wearing khaki* trousers"


  39. Glad the move's bin OK Wybourne, a fave of mine is the wegie bakers..

    "Is that an iced bun or a meringue? "

    "No son yer no wrang, it's an iced bun.."

  40. Or indeed, as my 8 year old nephew told me the other week:

    "What bees do you get milk from?"


  41. Good article by Sholto Byrne.

  42. morning/afternoon all!

    My favourite joke ever:

    what did the leper say to the prostitute?

    Keep the tip!!

  43. Duke 3 Dutch visitors on line her simultaneously - your line secure??

  44. What's the archetypical russian music? Dah, dah, da da da. la, la la la laaaa, la la la! Not volga boat song, red oct or patriotic hymn! Can't find the bloody name!

  45. deano,

    my line is as secure as a CiF editor's belief in his own conceit. We must have some more interested Dutch parties on here.

  46. Pen

    You could make the same argument to any sort of criticism of anything. If you dont like it, ignore it, etc. I could ignore the Graun, you could ignore my posts about the Graun, etc...

  47. @Turminder - if it's not the National Anthem, could it be Kalinka?

    Not sure if I've got my dahs, das and laaas straight, though...

  48. What do you call a sleepwalking nun?
    A roamin' Catholic.

  49. I like the assault on beautiful Gorky (Shostokovich) but I doubt that's what your looking for.

    Whilst your working up the finale - you could entertain yourself by having the lads and lasses from the tractor factory on a day trip to England to watch the Harrow/Eton cricket match ....... No finer collection of folk for an egging could be found

    .....where they throw scotch eggs, at the players and crowd, made by the Korean lassie, to a recipe learned from Faberge's great grandaughter who came to see that the Romanov solution was the only answer.....

  50. Thanks Peter but it's neither of those, more somber, slow, 4/4 beat every 1.5 sec... Orchestral, melancholy...

  51. turminder - national anthem, surely? one search for it on youtube lead me to Rocky IV (when Dolphh enters the ring), ended up watching the whole film...

  52. Edwin ...

    I'm sure it's just workload. Sometimes they get back immediately, sometimes it takes a few days. I'll push it a bit more once I get home and near a proper email account.

    Or, I could drop a note to Private Eye and mention how a long time poster was banned for telling a lesbian she didn't know what it was like to be a man. Should fit right into the Dave Spart column ;-)

  53. OK guy's we'll get it in the end, Not NA Philippa, or Korobuska, First Bar;

    G# F g# G D#...

  54. beats 1, 1-2, 1, 1. Hope that makes sense ; )

  55. G# F-G#G# G D#?
    have guitar out...

  56. Just saving this, as the pay-off line will no doubt see it modded - it's zounds talking to Etoiles...

    Etoiles Quote - Perhaps feminism, in denying the feminine, and in defining female equality as female identicalness with men actually undermined and negated women,

    Zounds - Etoiles, that's not what feminism defined women as, and it didn't deny the feminine. It denied a certain aspect of constructed femininity, as described and developed by men, as being a hegemonical construct that was used to oppress women.

    Etoiles Quote - and opened up the path for both the rejection of feminism as something rooted in lies, and sadly, also for the objectification and exploitation of women by people who twisted what that implied.

    Zounds - Well, there's a million and one reasons for the lack of political feminism as a mainstream movement, and that's what this article is about. To a certain extent, you may be right, but also there's issues with the 'movement' building, there's media pressures, there's the rise of the neo-liberal free market, plus the economic changes that women have been through in the last 40 years which are also contributory factors to a wider rejection of the term 'feminism'.

    Etoiles Quote - So now femininity for young women, even girls, is dressing like a stripper in public, measuring one's worth in terms of sex appeal. The alternative is for women to think of themselves in terms of their earning power, which is equally degrading.

    Zounds - Or there's a third option where women see themselves as themselves, dealing with two construct media 'types' which are pressed upon them as ideals. Much the situation feminism was trying to tackle.

    Etoiles Quote - It's really at the root of so many of our malaises that marriage, the home, the family and the domestic sphere as a whole have been denigrated and degraded by both the left and the free-market over the last forty years. Which is a tragedy for women, because the home is the heart of society, and it's where women's natural talents lie.

    Zounds - F*** off.

  57. Smoke On The Water, Philippa.

    I appear to be back info CiF. Will post thank yous on WDYWTTA shortly ....!

  58. Philippa,

    It's been bugging me, I was sure the Home Office licence stuff specifically mentions cosmetics, and sure enough it does:

    "The Secretary of State has decided that licences will not be issued for programmes of work involving............the use of protected animals for testing finished cosmetics products and substances intended primarily for use as cosmetics ingredients"

    The definition of protected animals is vertebrates* (anything with a backbone) and also Octopus vulgaris, an invertebrate. So technically I suppose you could argue you can test cosmetics on fruit flies, or worms or whatever, which are not covered by Home Office licensing.

    Tempted to post that on the badger thread, complete with links, but slightly off topic!

    *except humans

  59. Ah, no. Not Smoke on the Water.

    That's F#, A#. B.

    So excited to be back on CiF, that's my excuse!

  60. I mean G#, A#, B.

    Though in 30 secs I'll be back to correct that probably. I'll shut up now.

  61. Hi guys,

    Jay, come on don't be touchy, I was addressing that point to all. I try and get thte G to do better sure why do you think I post?

    Personally I think I am having some effect but what is an effect? I am not a physicist so am entirely in the dark haha

  62. Not Marche Slav, Tchikovsky either...

  63. next task for Montana clearly to get a functioning tab programme up and running, heh heh...

  64. Got to be realistic guys duh.

    Have to move from actual pyhs material start states (t0 ie now) to goal ones by legitimate moves yeah? otherwise all just wordy wooo????

    I am very much a realist (snag no one actually quite sure what the 'real' is and thus also not sure anout the not 'real' too). Tis the not and not the is.

  65. @Turminder - how about the old Radio Moscow theme?

  66. Welcome to our three visitors from Australia...

  67. That is a class post from zounds.

    LordS - congrats on your reinstatement.

  68. No sorry peter not radio Moscow..

    Glad you're back, fighting the good fight XIIIth ; )

  69. Whats the crack with the budget then? Cant be arsed wading through it just yet...

  70. @Turminder - pity, I think I've gone through all the tunes from Tetris now... So, thrashing around wildly, what about Moussorgsky's Great Gates of Kiev?

  71. Wozzup, we are being swamped by Aussies!

  72. Thanks, Thauma.

    But now they've posted an article by Denis MacShane.

    Must ... resist ... posting ....

  73. Oooh LordS, that is cruel of them!

  74. No Sorry again Peter. It's absolutely archetypical, a slow dirge..
    G# (F g# )G D#. Dah, da da, dah, dah!

  75. have you been watching close encounters recently, TX? stumped...

  76. Eight Aussies on line with us! - strewth I didn't know they had that many computers in Auz

    Hey guys - it's open house here anybody/everybody is welcome to comment. If you ain't got one all it needs is a google email account and a moniker/nom de plume and your in.

    Same for our friends in Sweden & USA

  77. turminder - I've been trying to locate the music they played on the radio when Stalin died but no luck so far....

  78. deano, there were 11 a wee while ago - more than UK!

  79. Ha ha Phillippa, it's not the 3rd kind...

    G# (F g# )G D#. Dah, da da, dah, dah!

    G#, g, f, d#, F, g#, g, d#. Da, da, da da, da da - dah, dah.

  80. All Aussies probably laughing at my misery ;-) No wukkas!

  81. LordS - DO NOT read MacShane!

  82. Wow 11 thauma, not seen that many from anywhere else - its about 2.23 am in Sydney so who the fegg are they??

    Night shift at a call centre/hospital/prison???? MsR's family/friends???

    Giz a clue you diggers!

  83. Perhaps West Auss - it would be around 11pm + in Perth when they showed

  84. MacShane is unspeakably grotesque. One of the most sickening little liars ever to grace Westminster.

  85. Does anyone else think Etoiles is the Pope?

  86. I'm taking thauma's advice. If I read it I'm likely to do something daft ;-)

  87. your grace, if so, the former porn addiction is yet to be covered in L'Osservatore...

  88. @Duke
    Dunno whether Etoiles is the Pope or not-i avoid
    religious avatars like the plague!

    @Lord S
    Congratulations on your return to Cif.Tried to
    post on waddya but it seems all your fans have
    overwhelmed the system.

  89. Holy fuck. That git Andrew Brown has a thread just gone up about his love-in with the moderators and how he is brighter and better-informed than at least 98% of commenters. What a supercilious, self-loving deluded twat.
    (mind, his love for the moderators must be of the abusive kind, since he's just created a shit-load of work for them in the next few hours...) of

  90. LordS - I see you couldn't resist after all!

    Alisdair - stop tempting me to break my no-to-AB rule.

  91. Anyone available to help with a simple counter experiment?

  92. Alisdair, thanks for tip off, im gonna go take a look.

  93. Problem medve? - that you in Hungary?

  94. Afternoon all

    Work finished, skiving tomorrow, so feet up and telly on, tea on the go and looking forward to actually having some time to chat for a change.

    LordSummerisle is back on CiF - OMG! \o/

  95. Oh, and as far as tea goes, only Yorkshire will do me these days. Best tea evah, imo.

  96. BB - I do wish you would stop giving your detractors ammo. You are not skiving on the morrow you are taking a well earned rest.

    I sometimes think you need another agent.


  97. .....in order to prepare for some really vigorous research.....

  98. deano:

    no problem. yep me. will now block a script and tell me is the hungary stays up please. here goes.

  99. LOL thanks Deano! :o)

    I still don't quite get used to the idea that I can take off any time I want to because I am essentially running my own business as it were - largely to do with the scowls I get from my clerks when I take time off (they would clone us all if they could). I probably have fewer days off than people in proper employment - I certainly don't take 4 weeks holiday a year.

  100. Hungarian Flag still flying @ 16.58

  101. Medve, there's a black space where presumably Hungary used to be.

  102. thanks deano.

    back to the drawing board. interesting is that text clients don't register.

  103. oh thanks thauma. maybe i was too late for deano.

  104. Hope that helps medve - I must away to get the dogs an evening walk.

    Fine taste in tea BB.

  105. I know that in order to be able to post at all, i have to allow scripts pointing to:


    i'll allow the flash thingy again, the the hungarian flag will reappear. after a short while i'll turn it off again.

    (i have been on all this time and i am able to post)

  106. Alisdair - my f-ing word.
    "I am confident that I know more about any particular story than 98% of the readers" - which would explain why he got so cross when 98% of his readers pointed out his was wrong on 'that' thread? Oh, that's fine then.

  107. Now the blank has gone but no Hungary.

  108. right i'll block it again .. a moment

  109. Hi all--Yorkshire Harrogate for me.

    Duke--Yes Etoiles does seem to be the pontificating sort. Had some extra strong koolaid, that one has.

  110. right i've blocked 99counters.com

    have i gone black again?

  111. Boudican:

    Thanks again for your helpful hints a while back when i was fixing those rotten beams. Has earned me a lot of browny points round here.

  112. thauma: i thing we are up against some sort of lag here. i'll continue with 99counters.com blocked, just say if and when you happen to notice that the red whte and green has gone. please.

  113. think think think not thing!

  114. Hi medve, still seeing your Hungarian flag here.

    Methinks the pompous mr. Brown will take a shitkicking for this one. Rightfully so.

    Off to walk dog, back later.

  115. medve, you are welcome, and one can never accrue enough brownie points.

  116. Looked at the Andrew Brown thread.

    Ironic that he highlights he knows more about his subjects than 98% of his readership because that is exactly the same percentage that he is a complete and utter prick.

  117. oldbathrobe has just made me laugh out loud on the AB thread, though, bless 'im. think i will stay away from now on, check back later to pick over the rubble...

  118. Still there Medve ... I'm away off home now, hooray!

  119. thanks for your help in testing thauma!

  120. Your Grice:

    also had a look at the AB. Wat een sukkel zeg!

  121. Re AB:

    just, well, just....wow!!!

    (I guess that pretty much answers my 'does the not influencing moderation decisions policy apply to AB?' question from the other day!!).

    Fucking outrageous!!!

  122. Andrew Brown:

    "It may sound arrogant, but finding out about stuff quickly is one of the core skills of journalism, and if I'm no good at it by now, I might as well give in".

    For the love of god, please, please do......

  123. Hmm... tempted to float over to the AB thread, but it might spoil my mood.

  124. medve - if it translates, wot is 'sukkel' please?

  125. Home 'puter, no sign of Hungary....

  126. Damn, have been forced to even comment on AB. Damn you Philippa, damn you.

  127. The irony of AB: he arrogantly asserts about the core skills of journalism, and if I'm no good at it by now, I might as well give in overlooking the fact that the longevity of tripe-spouters like himself has nothing to do with talent, and in the very same post he says tone is always hard to judge on these things. Hmm, isn't that a core skill of journalism?

  128. Oh yeah ... apols to Philippa ... it's Alisdair that needs damning.

  129. Lavartis: sukkel=stupid person, twit. Not extremely offensive, but quite disparaging.

  130. Thauma: what a lovely put-down!

  131. Someone should seek clarification (in a Billy Bremner way):

    Andrew, I'm confused as to what constitutes personal abuse.
    For example, is calling you a c@nt considered personal abuse?

    I'm also confused as to what constitutes trolling. Is it when someone comes on the thread, and instead of engaging in the debate, merely calls you a c@nt?

    Finally, I'm having trouble with this 'when I write a story, I know more than 98% of the readers' thing!
    If, for example, I wrote a story called 'Andrew Brown is a c@nt' (although, admittedly, not news so much as common knowledge), would the nature of me having this news mean that it trumps any response you may have, because you do not?
    i.e. - meaning that you are a c@nt?

  132. Wot, damning Alisdair? ;-) Fanks...

  133. LordS is back in? Ha, the fuckers caved in to my boycott. That'll teach 'em not to mess with the Tedinator. Where's MacShane and is 'fuckwit' one or two words?

  134. thauma


    I'm considering actually posting it, and making my self-imposed Cif ban a more permanent, mod-imposed one!!

  135. Damn. Constructed an extremely erudite MacShane comment with linkies and extra commentary, as well as a reply to James, and it's got lost.

    MacShane's on Cif. James, yer wasting yer time, as it'll be deleted before 5 people manage to read it. Unless it brings you pleasure.

    People are also having a good go on Waddya against AB.

  136. thauma

    You're probably right.
    I'll just leave it up here for posterity instead!!

  137. @Turminder - my last desperate throw is on waddya - the Internationale?

  138. Sorry Peter, but much props for the effort.. ; )

  139. I'll add my congratulations to LordS. Well done, you must be very proud and pleased. Back on Cif again! I imagine we won't be seeing you around here very much until your next pre-mod or ban. If you do drop in, maybe you could bring AllyF and LaRit with you. (On second thoughts, don't bother, but you personally are of course very welcome if you can find the time.)

    Disgruntled Cif'ers'R'Us!
    (short-term reassurance and moral support our speciality! No commitment necessary, all hypocrisy overlooked! Whinging about how unfair Cif is - not mandatory but preferred.)

    Please come again. Have a nice day!

  140. Well, bugger it! Many thanks for all your efforts friends, but I'm breaking my alcohol fast n getting pissed tonight.

  141. Ah - saw you replied now and it wasn't that one either. I will try to entice my lad downstairs with his geetar and play those chords for me later, to see if it rings any bells. Having trouble hearing it in my head.

  142. Turminder - your quest is annoying me now, because it vaguely reminds me (although the rhythm seems off) of a Russian folk song (I think) that I learnt in primary school that went something like, Ah! see, over the steppelands, see the mighty hosts arising! but I can find no evidence of it on the net based on the few words I probably mis-remember.

  143. Turminder (from waddya)- thank you for thinking of me but nothing seems to be stirring - also, I can't play the guitar!

    I hope we get there eventually.

  144. Shukriya Habib, but no cigar. I've e-mailed my Prof of Music pal, time for the big guns! Right I'm off to drink red wine, first swally in 24 days, was goin for the month but think I need a day off. Finished my script, so fingers crossed and I'll mail it in the morning..

  145. By George, I think she's got it!!

    I had managed to get that into my head from reading the chords, but had no idea what it was called. I am pretty sure this must be it Montana!

  146. Oh!!! If that's it, Turminder - you led us astray by saying not Red October! Ha ha! Good luck, with the script, mera pra! and remember what Omar Khayyam used to say:

    drink wine in this world and not the next
    for none has returned to say which is best

  147. Ha! That is the same one I was thinking of, although Montana's is the real version and mine was some bizarre English translation.

  148. Hi Habib, hope you're well. Very good from Omar Khayyam. I shall use that.

    Some good boots in on Moderator Brown today.

  149. Habib - a loaf of wine, a jug of bread and thou....

    (or something)


  150. I am off upstairs to ponder the mysteries of the universe....

  151. ... like, how on earth Andrew Brown captured and retains his post...

    'Night all!

  152. Genius Montana, That is the one! Thank you so much! I've sent the script off so light candles every body! I'll post the link on WADDYA too. The wine, a cheeky Chillean is mighty fine!

  153. Well done Montana - a fine ear.

    I keep adding notes about the various visitors that I keep seeing logging into UT so that you will get some idea of the wide variety of locations which visitors call from whilst you are at work.

    I'm guessing our Spanish visitor maybe Martillo and the Italian possibly Dan, the Greek is most likely...

    but I've no idea about who the German and Irish (Eire) are and we have had up to five Dutch and four USA visitors on line at one time!!

    The Swede& the Norge(s) are a mystery too, although the Finlander might be obvious...but the numerous Aussies (11 at one time today) who called by could be a team of sorts.

    There may well be others who log in and out when I've been off-line too, but it would seem that your site has attracted a wide readership....

    I hope the breathing is continuing to go well and the spring continues to advance in your part of the world.

    Best W & Night

  154. Night night Deano and everyone - off to beddybyes meself. x

  155. Glad I could help.

    At least something good happened today. Learned first thing this morning that a boy from the grade I worked with last year committed suicide last night. 15 years old. Sweetest kid you could ever hope to meet, always a smile on his face, hard worker, never any behaviour problems, handsome, athletic. Just the picture of what Americans want to think of as the "All-American boy next door".

    Shot himself with his grandfather's pistol. They said he left a note saying that he didn't think anybody would miss him. How the hell does that happen? How does a kid who lit up every room he ever entered come to believe that no one will miss him?

    Well, I'll miss you, Travis, and I was just that woman who helped out in a couple of your classes last year. If I'll miss you as much as I'm going to, how much more will your family and your peers miss you? So many people in this world who should have had the pleasure of knowing you will never get to now.

  156. Montana - don't know what to say. Just, that everything you said was right. So right.

    God bless Travis.

  157. The adolescent mind is volatile at the best of
    times.Travis was clearly one unhappy kid but
    like most boys had already 'learned' to mask
    his pain.Montana- you may never know what was
    going on in his head but Travis is hopefully
    at peace now.Nevertheless still a tragedy for
    one so young.RIP.

  158. Just terrible Montana. Hope you can weather the sad news. Travis, was the world just too much, or not enough? (Paraphrased from Mr I.Banks)

  159. Montana

    I am so sad to hear that news. It is such a tragedy when one so young dies in such a way. My daughter has told me tales of her schoolfriends, one shotgunned her face off and she was no older.

    I weep for what we let our children do thru' neglect and indifference. There can be no excuses for such laxity.

    Let us work for a future for everyone's kids as we are all someone's child.

    Love JC

  160. "There but for the Grace of God go I" (sons aged 12 & 16). Luckily my stepmother got rid of the the black-powder gun my father stupidly bought for himself in his dog-days.

    So sorry for all who loved Travis.