16 March 2010


Caligula became emperor in 37.  Samoset, the first Native American to make contact with the settlers of Plymouth Colony and the first Native American that little white kids used to learn about in school, walked through the colony, greeting the shocked colonists in English, in 1621.  Wanderers FC defeated the Royal Engineers AFC 1-0 in for the first FA Cup in 1872.  Robert Goddard launched the first liquid-fuelled rocket in 1926.  Mississippi ratified the Thirteenth Amendment to the US Constitution, thereby abolishing slavery in the state, in 1995.  Yes, 1995.

Born today:  James Madison (1751-1836), Georg Ohm (1789-1854), Rosa Bonheur (1822-1899), René François Armand Sully-Prudhomme (1839-1907), Leo McKern (1920-2002), Jerry Lewis (1926), Bernardo Bertolucci (1940), Isabelle Huppert (1953), Nancy Wilson (1954), Peaches Geldof (1989) and Theo Walcott (1989).

It is St. Urho Day in Finland, the US and Canada.


  1. Those are some skinny-assed calves.

  2. Someone on the 'lesbian prom' thread mentioned Mississippi's late adoption of the 13th - have to admit, that really threw me...

    calves look quite cheerful, though.

  3. Alabamians don't say, "Thank God for Mississippi" for nothing.

  4. Hi all. I can't hang around long as I'm at work and this site can be problematic. I just wanted to tell you that the mods, in their infinite and most glorious wisdom, have banned me. That's all I have to say for now.

  5. Have been digging around prepping something on the local elections and it transpires that spoilt ballots (blancs et nuls) are counted - 32500 counted, but the bulk of the abstention rate (50%) was stay-at-homes...

  6. LordS - what for?!?

    Have you emailed them?

    Is it premod or ban?

  7. I just received an email from cif moderation saying the reason my comment was modded from the QT thread last week was because (quote):

    "It seems likely that the comment was removed as it was considered offensive in the context of the thread."

    Two things stand out here:

    1. The word "likely"- which means that there is no communication between mods and those emailing posters that have a modding complaint. The left hand mod does not know what the right hand mod is doing. Clearly there is no proper modding procedure.

    2. Political- if my comment was removed as is "likely" as it was "deemed offensive", it is quite clear here that we have censorious, political modding on certain threads which again is against the modding guidelines.

    If anyone saw my original comment, no-one could be offended by it, except for the most fundamentalist radfem. Which makes me suspicious that certain threads have specialist mods.

    If the person emailing me doesn't know why I was modded the whole modding procedure is a sham.

    And if LordS has been banned- complete shambles.

  8. If LordS has been banned over the Bidisha/lesbian thing, then Cif isn't worth a spit.

    And remember that science education piece we were promised a few days back? As I predicted on waddya, it's a lump of feminist boilerplate from a writer who covers hip-hop and video games for 'Bitch' magazine.

    Not worth half a spit.

  9. PeterJ,

    and Bea Campbell's appeared as well. Toot toot!

  10. Flippin' hell milord. That's outrageous. I always enjoy your comments.

  11. @Your grace - yes, all this and OBea too. Our cup runneth over today, that's for sure.

    The fucking fools.

  12. Morning all

    Watched Dispatches last night, very moving could not sleep because of such an overwhelming feeling of impotency to actually DO anything meaningful. Eventually went to sleep about 5am and woke up feeling irritable about life in general. This was tempered by the news that the kidnapped boy in Pakistan was found safe and well.

    Heard last night that two friends of my daughter, both stunning females, have been awarded places to undertake cancer research PhDs
    after having come top of their years in biochemistry.

    I suppose I should go and read the lastest offering on gender stereotyping over on CiF but need a strong coffee first......enough, enough about gender stereotyping I'm shouting in my head.

    Sorry to hear about the banning Lord S.

    CiF seems more interested in high viewing of articles to generate revenue, this can only be achieved in my opinion with outrageous articles, something certain types of professional journalists excel at. People like Jay and myself are more interested in factual reports which of course do not create the high amount of interest/outrage. I saw with interest in the comments of the second article I wrote for CiF how some posters willfully distorted the facts so they could create an argument.

    Long rant for me, lack of sleep is not a good thing when one gets older!

  13. Right - have put something about the elections up on UT2. It's a bit long...sorry 'bout that...

  14. Signed up on CiF for a bit of a lark on the WADDYA thing.

    First comment (quoted below) got deleted and when trying to post this, red sign came up saying it would be moderated.

    Is they avin a larf?

    So, what part of the moderation policy did my last comment contravene?

    Or is it just the name?

    You are really on a roll here, aren't you, moderators and editors?

    Or is it on a hiding to nowhere?

    This is what I said:

    I think you are wonderful.

    I think you are horrible.

    I love you.

    I hate you.

    Sugar and spice and all things nice.

    Slugs and snails and puppy-dogs' tails.

    The best you could hope to use as a deletion excuse would be off-topic.

    But almost everything on this thread is always off-topic.

    To get back on-topic, though:

    Could we have a thread about moderation policy, please?

    Oh, bannings would be good, too.

  15. Morning Utters.
    Lrds - Cif is a mess - the modders get madder.

    Agree about Despatches. It is up on Youtube but blocked for overseas viewers. It should be available globally.

    War and its aftermath should be publicised not sanitised . Makes me angry when Media says 'Some pictires are too 'graphic' to show'.

    War is the obscenity.

  16. My post suffers i see from a paucity of letters. Sorry. Have to bash keyboard with more ferocity

  17. MenzWimminz

    I saw your comment had been deleted and was surprised it's not objectionable but perhaps it's not clear what the point was? Just saying that might be a reason why? If so, is that a reason to delete it? Perhaps if I had asked you what point your were making it would not have been deleted?

    How can we second guess the reasons, it's just like going round and round and round........


  18. Modding

    There are patterns of deletions emerging across several subject areas.

    This suggest individual mods can act autonomously and conduct tenor and control direction of thread.

    Perhaps they should swap them around abit - if they constantly mod one subject area (their subject of 'expertise?) - loyalty to certain posters as well as a personal bias are possible causes of this uneveness and prejudice.

  19. Bloody good point on waddya, montana.

  20. Thanks, Philippa. I censored myself a little bit. Not entirely sure why. I'm half tempted at the moment to go to a couple of threads and speak my mind completely freely. Might as well let them ban me, too.

  21. Just a quick note.

    I saw Wybourne and Montana had posted on WADDYA, so thought I might as well put in a final comment because things seem to be like a rather attractive cartoon car-crash over there at the moment.

    I had also emailed both Seaton and Rusbridger, but this is unlikely to be connected.

    Anyway, I clicked send on the post below, only to find that I am now banned under MLJ.

    I wondered what others might be finding after their resignations.

    Since both 13thDukeofWybourne and MontanaWildhack have come back to make comments about the circus which CiF has become, I will allow myself the same privilege.

    The point is that it is now clear for everyone to see that the moderation exercised in practice has no relationship to the stated policy.

    It is also clear that there is an ideological stance which is maintained by deleting and censoring anyone who does not toe the line.

    There may be enough people who will keep commenting on CiF who are not bothered about principles - or as flexible about how one principle can be subverted to accommodate another - as the editorial and moderation teams.

    Perhaps, though, this episode will make some of the people who thought that others who made an issue of moderation were simply grizzling because they had been deleted (fairly, of course, in their eyes) wonder whether a site which would proclaim the value of freedom of speech in one breath while gagging those who seek to exercise it in another is really something of which to be a part.

    I do not want to be soiled by being associated with a site like this or with people who cannot see the squalor of the moral quagmire into which they jump when they give it tacit approval by fostering it and aiding and abetting its filthy intentions.

    If there is a full, open and honest debate which allows the people below the line who contribute free content to discuss how moderation and ideology should operate, I will reconsider this matter.

    Otherwise, I want no part of a site which can so proudly and idiotically parade its moral slovenliness and contempt for its users.

  22. Its the unaccountability that gets me, they are just invisible little assassins that destroy posts and wipe posters out completely. What an utter bloody farce.

    Montana - you're completely right on Bitey and Ultima, ultima in particular got away with quite the most astonishing abuse and vitriol i've ever seen on the boards, she survived years. Of my 4 premods only 1 was for adhom abuse, 2 questioning moderation, 1 questioning editorial line/integrity.

  23. i've posted again onwaddya - we should keep up the pressure - and be damned and banned if that is outcome.

  24. Can I just point out that Atomboy/MonsieurleJongleur got quite a bit of stick on WADDYA as he constantly made the same point as he has above.

    And has proven to be completely correct.

  25. Wybourne

    Thanks. It's all a game, but I think the idiots at CiF Towers will have lost even the support from some who had hitherto missed the point.

    I just wanted to say that I hope you are settling in and enjoying your new place.

  26. Geogina has come onto waddya

  27. Leni - your post also great, about the 'community spirit' that was previously 'in site' but now against it... think they might have jumped the shark on this one.

    It does remind me that the reason I started blithering on here was because I got modded off an iddlebid thread last year, and got a right strop on. They did in fact reinstate the comment - after I asked them what the hell was wrong with it. Can't help now wondering what would have been the outcome had it been one of the straight white male posters who speculated that iddlebid sat in a hollowed-out volcano stroking a cat and was secretly working for male supremacy...

    Clearly I have benefited in the past from the Guardian identity politics paradigm. I would just like to apologise formally for that to all you boring SWM types.

    [puts on white gown, does tour of flat barefoot, sprinkling self with fag-ash]

  28. Georgina, once again, spectacularly misses the point. And suggests we look at the bloody talk policy, as though we weren't all fed up with exegesis of the thing trying to work out what moderators are playing at.

    It's her ball, and up to her who gets to have a kick.

  29. Well, if Georgina Henry's post on WADYYA has told us anything, it is that we should be getting our shit together on here and tapping into the talent of us all.

    Philippa, I enjoyed your article and have commented on it. Please don't get your mods on the case and delete me will you?

  30. Hi folks, me again. I know I said that was all I have to say for now but I just want to thank you all for the massive display of support over on WDYWTTA.

    Once again, I can't hang around long as I'm posting from work and need to be careful. Just a few things to mention.

    1. Yes, I've been in pre-mod before but have never been warned there was a three strikes policy. In fact during my last pre-mod I never received any communication from CiF, either going into it or coming out if it.

    2. I have emailed the mods, but previous experience suggests that holding my breath while awaiting a response is only going to lead to tears.

    3. If someone could please let greendragon know that on CiF I have only ever been LordSummerisle. SgtHowie and JohnKnox were not me so I can take credit for neither their wit, nor responsibility for their trespasses upon the mods' sensibilities.

    Once again, thanks!

  31. Am instituting an affirmative action policy for modding on UT2 article / my blog - if you can confirm you are in possession of XY chromosomes (or recognised intersex equivalent), and have never so much as felt a little bit funny looking at a Beckham aftershave advert, you have a free pass. It's the least I, as part of the matriarchy, can do.

  32. Brusselsexpat posted

    "Lord S was, I believe, persona non grata at the UT and criticised pretty freely on that site although the offending posts may have been removed by now".

    Bru said something similar about me about a week ago.

    could someone explain/clarify please?

  33. Phillipa

    Had a quick glance at your piece on UT2, looks good. Will give it some proper attention this evening.

    Politics in Bosnia seems very complicated. With about 32 parties split between Multi-ethnic, Bosniak, Croat and Serb, it makes western European politics look positively straightforward and enticing.

    Off to Mostar tomorrow with a bit of luck. I see the temperature is rising regarding cif moderation policies. Hey ho....on we go.

    LordS - Can't believe a gent like you has been banned...what on earth did you say?

  34. I should have included that the post from Bru is on CiF

  35. What is Bru waffling on about? Since when was LordS persona non grata on the UT? Have I missed something? Mind you, I don't go on waddya very often these days so I'm pretty much out of the gossip loop.

    Right lunch over....off out into the spring sunshine...gorgeous weather here.

  36. Cordelia -- Bru has a persecution complex about this place. She just never misses an opportunity to make a dig over there. LordS has always been welcome here.

    Thanks. It's all a game, but I think the idiots at CiF Towers will have lost even the support from some who had hitherto missed the point.

    Well, Olching is still there, batting for the Graun. Actually, I think what he's doing is more a matter of trying to make out that I'm out of sync with everyone else. He's more of a feminist than I am, after all.

  37. Cordelia - we have some bunfights over here. sometimes these get very heated, sometimes (in my view) overly so. and sometimes that means people not on the UT get criticised for being a microcosm of something perceived as wrong with CIF. like (this is difficult - please bear with me) criticising a poster for being 'fluffy' when the real criticism is that the articles on CIF are 'fluffy' (not as serious / diverse as previously, debates not being as good, etc).

    Or because someone's in a bad mood.

    Like I say, I don't like that side of things - and in the past have kept out of it when the shouting starts, when I could, perhaps should, have stood up a bit more.

    But Bru is using the bunfights to, well, stir, I think.

    I hope you stay.

  38. Afternoon evening all!!! checking in from them there hills of Katmandu....!!! hope all's well connection is dead slow so will try and catch you all soon...hang in there one and all....X

  39. Thanks Montana and Phillipa for responding have I been singled out for being 'fluffy?'

    Bru has posted again saying that I was slagged of on UT.
    I did scan through prior to joining UT but did not find any evidence I am presuming it was deleted?

    I don't think I will hang around Phillipa, it's not my style to slag off others so don't really appreciate the sentiment being directed at me, there should be space and tolerance for all sorts of people who want to post regardless of whether it's deep, meaningful political insights or a 'fluffy' comment (whatever that means). I will assume it means lightweight and non-substantive. Still, I'd rather be like that than like some of the tossers who post ATL and BTL.

    BFN Cordelia

  40. Cordelia - I was in numerous minds about whether or not to try to explain...so sorry if have screwed up or made you feel bad...my point has always been that we all do deep / political / sport / fluffy / music / theory / share experiences here and on CIF in some combination and that's a good thing...

    Bugger - really screwed that up, didn't I.

    Do stay. It's usually not at all slaggy. (Plus, have just posted one of Freche's weirdest public statement on UT2, if you are interested)

  41. Hey Gandolfo! Hope you're having a good time. You're very much missed.

    And now a general question: Has anyone else noticed weirdness with the "recommend" function on Cif?

  42. Bah. Right. Going for a walk.

    (Montana - sometimes recommends don't 'take' first time when you refresh the page, some threads it doesn't work at all? yup, I've noticed that)

  43. "nd now a general question: Has anyone else noticed weirdness with the "recommend" function on Cif?"

    yep, its playing up.

  44. Cordelia

    People have rows. Some folk get angry and take it out on 'fluffy stuff'. I am a supporter of fluffy stuff - we all have such a side though areas of expression vary.

    I keep out of rows as they are generally not constructive and sometimes hurt people.

    As to deletions here - I am not aware of any. People have a habit here of defending themselves if they feel unfairly treated.

    I'm putting this badly - I suppose I'm trying to say 'Please stay'. Some posters here have obviously felt they have had enough and left - here as on Cif the site and other posters feel their loss.

  45. Gandolfo - Hi, good to hear from you.

    I can't rec, at all - not that I think it is a particularly usefull function unless I want to agree without posting.

  46. Thanks Leni

    "As to deletions here - I am not aware of any. People have a habit here of defending themselves if they feel unfairly treated".

    This is my point, if Bru is saying I was slagged off on UT where are the posts? Bru has mentioned this twice now.

    Also, how can I defend myself if I have not ever actually visited or posted on the UT site prior to this week? To me it's not acceptable to slag people off if they cannot respond...because they don't know about it. At least do it to my "face".

  47. Hi folks!

    Am just following the holy wrath by Montana, Jay and others on the whaddya thread - you're all making great, great, great points in exactly the appropriate tone.

    I also found out Philippa is a lesbian, which left me wondering if I read her comments so carelessly that what should have been an obvious fact always completely evaded me ...

  48. Cordelia

    Stay - if you feel offended then defend yourself. To be honest there is a lot of fluffy stuff here - some have obsessions with soft - and presumably fluffy - breasts for example. We tend to humour them.

  49. Hi - BB here posting from work

    Just noticed the LordS thing and it is bloody terrible. I will post when I get home.

    Also wanted to reassure Cordelia that a) everyone comes in for some stick at times from some of the posters. I tend to let it go over my head most of the time.

    But I would suggest you take what Bru says with a pinch of salt. A lot of people got very angry with her as a result of something quite vile she said on here once, and as a result it has been daggers-drawn ever since, which is a shame. But some people have trouble burying the hatchet, to mix my metaphors.

    Don't leave cos of being called "fluffy" - I have been called far worse, and sometimes go off in a flounce, but actually the people on here are all good.

    And we need meerkats. xx

  50. Yay! Gandolfo! Hope you are having a great time! x

  51. elementary - as I have confirmed on Waddya, I'm actually bi, which mean I get to join in either with the 'tits' or 'no cute men ATL' debates fairly evenly. depending on how i feel on any particular day. heh heh.

    i only really mention it on 'gay threads', as i don't think my having crushes on both Paul Bettany and Jessica Alba has any relevance to, say, tax policy. although one day, one day, I'll lever it in...

    to second leni and BB - cordy, please don't go.

    I'd do a youtube link but I can't decide which would be my favourite.

  52. Philippa: Yeah, I completely see how bringing in either infatuation in a tax policy thread would be simple, but both at the same time, that's really tough. Good luck with that.

    Also, I know I really, really shouldn't react with something as immature as "So, there's still hope for me" to your stating you're bi-sexual, and so I won't.

    Am I being fluffy?

  53. "I'm actually bi,"

    Greedy cow... ;)

  54. heh heh.

    can just imagine the modding response were you to say that on waddya. presumably georgina would offer to pop round to make tea and make sure I wasn't feeling violated or something...

  55. jay - equal opportunities, mate, it's the only acceptable liberal viewpoint on this issue.


  56. Fun and games on the Cif moderation front, I see. That's a shame, :0(

    Regarding our Belgian chum, A lot of people got very angry with her as a result of something quite vile she said on here once.

    To be strictly accurate, brusselsexpats had a private Email exchange with Montana, and when she felt hard done by here, she posted private and personal information about Montana on the Cif site in a misguided attempt to castigate and humiliate Montana publicly. Her constant allegations of 'misogyny' are somewhat undermined by her recent Cif comment where she referred to the feminists here on Untrusted as 'jealous harridans'. So there's still a certain amount of annoyance with her, yes. But I wouldn't put much faith in her bizarre utterances, Christina. She regularly rants about this place on Cif and bores the arse off people with it.

  57. What a débacle on Waddya! Hee hee.

    Hi to Gandolfo!

    Cordelia, I'd take any accusations of 'slagging off' from that particular quarter with a huge pinch of salt....

  58. It is the progressive sexuality, Philippa, inclusive and non discriminatory (though it is perhaps a little antagonistic towards uni-directional sexual lusts).

  59. what's important, jay, is that whatever our personal views of the morality of uni-directional sexual lusts, the proponents of these are recognised as 'people', and properly supported in a workplace environment (as long as their requests are reasonable per the attached list, and they fill out the proper form 'HET1' in triplicate and get it back to HR).

  60. Sorry - failed to post full list of forms:
    hang on, the BDSM ones are around here somewhere...

  61. Spot on, Pip, they are not just to be tolerated but celebrated.

    Diversity is its own reward. Now, join hands and sing with me...

  62. "Sorry - failed to post full list of forms"

    Making said person make two trips to HR could further undermine their confidence in the policies and processes. If this occurs, please also get them to fill in additional form...

  63. Has anyone got a spare brick wall with "Community guidelines" spray painted across it? I urgently need to hit my head off it. They are not budging one inch.

    Anyway, I'm signing off now til I'm abroad so take it easy you crazy cats and kittens en spreek met iedereen wanneer ik in Nederland ben.

    Tot ziens allemaal!

  64. Shit, I just realised.

    Does referring to women as 'kittens' self fulfill Dworkian gender semiotic paradigms inherent in masculine perception?

    If so, apologies sisters.

  65. good luck your grace! see you soon...

  66. As regards to Bru:

    I think it's important to note that the reason she decided to have a go at me was because I didn't "defend" her after she'd accused Monkeyfish of posting some truly vile stuff on the Waddaya thread and Monkeyfish demanded an apology. She and Kiz then created a fictitious months-long torrent of abuse directed at her, to try to justify the whole thing.

  67. I thought your "kittens" was aimed at people like me here ... Hadn't you specified, I doubt anyone would have noticed.

  68. Does referring to women as 'kittens' self fulfill Dworkian gender semiotic paradigms inherent in masculine perception?

    Yr Grace - in my case it's more like old alley cats.

  69. I need to say this, because I'm not going to engage with the prick on Waddaya anymore. Other people can look away:

    Olching is quite possibly the biggest fucking asshole on the planet. AAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGHHHH! The only reason I qualify that is because Parallaxview gives him a pretty good run for the money.

  70. Okay, now that I've had my little bit of primal scream therapy:

    Bon voyage, Duke (and Duchess)! Hope the move goes smoothly and that you won't be away from us for too long.

  71. All the best Duke

    Send news from the flatlands. Keep thumb ready for leaks


  72. Ah Montana - the keeper of the emails - from which you've outed a number of people. No wonder Hank keeps in your good books.

    So will you eventually publish everyone's correspondence?

  73. I can't believe you lot made me read waddya for the first time in ages! Good stuff, though - Georgina on the ropes, most enjoyable.

    I hope you stick around here. I don't know if you remember, but a few months ago you and I thought that Georgina had left and we made jokes about a Wizard of Oz song... it would have been most apt, judging by her words today.

    Wybourne, safe journey, old bean!

  74. Oh and a very big wave to Gandolfo, which I suspect he won't be able to see. Good to know he's doing well.

  75. Just looked back at waddya' Obvious from Georgina's increasingly snappy comments that she is not interested in a community - just the number of hits, even if they are are hit and run without any continuing dialogue across threads from posters who have got to know each other. One of the more interesting features of Cif.

    Ah - Come day - Go day.

  76. Just read waddya for first time in yonks like habib.

    Very bad re Lord Summerisle. Duke you make great points as always sir.

    I got modded on Lebanon thread yesterday for pointing to someone that of course Hezbollah were anti-semitic..what did they think they did, Israeli PR? I did not go today.After Dispatches last night I was in tears and then my flatmate said of course the Israeli PR machine will say no it didn't happen and then it just goes round.

    I wanted desperately to do something and felt so fucking useless. When the child who saw his father killed said "If I just kill one of them I have done my job" I cried for him. I will never forget his little face and his astonishing maturity as he said, "They turned our houses into sand and they would have taken the sand if they could."


    Ms R

  77. PhilippaB: Sigh. I got called "such a good heterosexual' by a mate at Uni. I know you only do it to be fashionable though Philippa. What happens when, like my permanently curly whirly hair, bi goes out of fashion? Hmm young lady. Up a creek without a paddle.

  78. So will you eventually publish everyone's correspondence?

    I think that highly unlikely, parallax. It seems to be more other people's style, although perhaps you're trembling in your little boots anyway. There seems to be something about this blog that irresistibly attracts you. Although you post very sporadically, and you always seem to pop up here after there's been some kind of bust-up. Why is that? Wouldn't be a sort of disaster tourism, would it? You know, the kinda creepy guy who parks his car near a road traffic accident, hoping to get a look at the bodies being carted away. Still, I suppose it's a hobby. I prefer stamp-collecting, myself.

  79. Hello Everyone

    Quick Post!

    Bad news about Lord S.Do the banned ever get re-admitted?

    Cordelia-I know we haven,t 'met'but we joined UT
    on the same day.Also enjoyed the article you
    recently did ATL on Cif.Don,t let a shit-stirrer
    on Cif put you off UT.That,ll mean the shit-stirrer has won!

    Duke -good luck on your move.

    BB- I see we both copped it with the name calling on CIF last night.Apparently you are a
    Righteously Indignant Zionist whilst yours truly
    is a Jewish Nationalist-whatever that is.
    Bizarre eh!

  80. Fuck off, Parallax. You are nothing but a shit-stirring cunt and you have no space to be taking any moral high ground here.

  81. MsR - you know me, fashion is my middle name! *cough*

  82. Thauma

    Whiskey - there's an idea.
    I have spent my life being permanently confused by the world around me. Perhaps it might all srart to make sense seen through the bottom of a bottle.

  83. MsR

    Gaza - cried all the way through. Then got angry - then empty.

  84. sherfig: 'I prefer stamp-collecting, myself.'

    no surprises there then

    Montana: 'Fuck off, Parallax. You are nothing but a shit-stirring cunt... (blog-hostess blahs on ad nauseum)'


  85. Can I play this gender hetero/homo/bi game too? I used to go to a gay bar after work sometimes (very cheap beer). I met a Swedish guy one evening, and we were having a great chat, but when I felt it necessary to tell him that I wasn't gay, he said, "That's a pity, you'd be really good at it."
    Still can't quite work that one out, although it sounds fairly positive. Seems I missed my true calling. Perhaps next life, eh?

  86. I'd take that as a compliment, scherf!

  87. Yeah, that's what I thought, Philippa, but I still don't understand how exactly one can be 'good at being gay'. Although obviously I would be :0)
    Do you have to practice or anything?

  88. parallax

    You do have this tendency to parachute in, make tendentious remarks and then piss off - so you can't be that surprised that people on here get a bit shirty with you.

  89. Philately is great, parallax. I find that it relaxes me and helps stop that infernal buzzing in my head. You should try it.

  90. scherf - it's a hell of a commitment, but on the upside, you get badges for the various skills you pick up. bit like the brownies but with better clothes.

  91. Sheff - yeh, I know :)

    scherfig - shit man - hope you get better soon - best wishes

  92. I tried stamp collecting but kept swallowing the little paper hinges - I was very young at the time/.

    All hobbies have their dangers.

  93. thinking back on it, my very short stint in the brownies gained me only one badge - "hostess".

    i kid you not.

  94. Sherf - how can you be good at being gay? I am with you and a bit at a loss to understand that remark. Years ago I went to a gay club in Manchester - have forgotten the name of it but it was quite well known. But you had to be gay to get in so I am stood at the door with my three gay mates telling this bouncer I was a lesbian. When we left at the end of the night he grabbed my arm and asked me if I wanted to meet for a drink in this after hours bar. So I said that I was gay - again - and he laughed and said 'yeah right pull the other one. I let you in but its obvious you aren't'.

    That bugged me for ages. How? How was it obvious?

    As for Bru - ignore anything she says Christine. I cant believe she called us jealous harridans I love that - its brilliant.

    I think Bru is a male poster 'cross dressing' on line - a sort of Hinge and Brackett of the interweb. Some big burly guy that thinks that ladeez go to the opera a lot and buy big brooches and scarves etc, while swanning around ambassadors receptions eating fine chocolates wrapped in gold.

  95. I wonder if we are now all marked for 'rub out' by Cif?

    Expect a visit.

  96. Travel well, Your Grace.

    And I'll be using that brick wall when you've finished with it, thanks...

  97. Just to keep stirring the pot, it seems odd that someone like Georgina Henry appears unable to fight her corner with any degree of credibility.

    This is from what I posted on her declaration of how wonderful CiF had become in four years:

    GH Bit by bit, this is helping us build a community that spends less time discussing our commissioning flaws and moderation practices and more time contributing positively.

    That is probably because whenever there is a request to discuss moderation, it is simply ignored. Moderators simply send stock emails when questioned, editors do not bother to reply at all.

    Nice to see that the people who provide free content for The Guardian are called "the crowd". Why not just say filthy scum?

    GH You have to work harder to understand and retain the loyalty of your community.

    Let us know when you start.


    Is MF locked out of here somehow? Not through any underhand operation here, I'm sure - just a post which sounded like him. No point in linking to it as it will be deleted.


    Lovely to see how a spot of pre-mod for half an hour or so can bring people back into the fold and blabbering the party line.


    I'm utterly gutted because I feel that I've been an unwitting agent in getting him banned...
    If the response of the moderation team to an interesting debate is to ban the poster who strays from the pc line what is the fucking point in the Graun having this site? I really really don't get it!
    I'm fucking really pissed off.
    Feck me I might as well defect to the DM... It really is less offensive!


    Totally totally agree Jay.
    As far as I was concerned I had a very interesting discussion on this thread with his Lordship yesterday. We didn't have exactly the same opinion. What of it? LordS gave his reasons for the opinion he held... were they so invalid, so vile that he must be excised from the site? It really is monstrous. He is one of the best and most reasonable posters on cif... YOU CANNOT BE SERIOUS about banning him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    I think it was fair to mod his comment. It did have a nasty tone.

  98. Just wanted to say good luck to his Dukeness on the move. And hi Gandolfo good to see you around for a wee while.

  99. Bru's a strange one. I used to be indifferent to her comments - she can be informative on the rise of the far Right in the low countries, but they seem ultimately to be mostly about her (not that I can be entirely absolved on that score!)

    But I went *right* off her when she started boasting about how much money she earns. I think that's the height of vulgarity.

  100. Evening possums (and meerkats I hope)

    Dog tired tonight so won't be doing much - have some work to look at too, but the lines are dancing before my eyes, and not in a C & W way...

    Paul - yeah, I am a zionist, apparently, for expressing my disgust at the Vel d'Hiv round-up. Nice to be simultaneously a zionist and an anti-semite (according to CiFWatch at least). I wonder if I am just a schizophrenic and have never realised it?

  101. Gotta love the 1:23 post from sexpats on Waddya slagging off Montana (again), who is apparently one hundred percent responsible for everything anyone else posts on here. And, obviously, a self-hating misogynist.

    Then there's this:

    I often wonder how it feels to live in- ooh say edgy Leamington Spa. It must be so exciting to leave home knowing you could be mugged by an octogenarian disgruntled at his low pension.

    Darlings, have I told you about the fabulous opera I attended in Leam the other night? The ladies were wearing the most gorgeous fripperies and the gentlemen were so well-bred and attractive. Positively scintillating.

    We hardly noticed the young man being stabbed multiple times at the bottom end of town. After all, he really didn't have the right shoes. Obviously ungrateful for the sartorial advice of his betters.

  102. I fail to see where I've changed any position atomboy. I didn't agree with LordS's point and said so last night but I vehemently disagree with him being banned for it.

  103. Yeah Olching joins the gutless, charmless and witless for me too

  104. Kiz, what did he say that had a nasty tone? I saw a bit of the exchange, but nothing that I would describe as 'nasty', unless it was modded before I saw it.

  105. Hmm, interesting, the whole little controlled experiment known as waddya finally self destructing with its regulars realising they've been mugged for for fucking years. Offski's nailing it, but no surpirses there.

    Bru is a fucking imbecile, I've never gone head to head withe her because why would you play chess against a drooling spanial with BSE ? Because that's what it would be like.

    Back later.

  106. Kiz - I for one miss you posting here. That's all.

    Trouble with Bru, though, is that the more we talk about her, the more angry she becomes. Perhaps the best way to stop it is to just...well... stop it? I don't mean that in any judgmental way, before anyone starts on me, but it is like a chemical reaction; change one of the compounds and the reaction doesn't happen any more.

    Just my two penn'orth. :o)

  107. Who gives a fuck what that bat says over on the beano ? Sod her.

  108. Playing chess with a drooling spaniel with BSE. That has made my month!

    Who is offski - good comments.

  109. Offski ? Not me, but a pretty coherent and disabused ex-regular by the sounds of it...

    Narrows it down to about five thousand then.

    The nobs.

  110. #Trouble with Bru, though, is that the more we talk about her, the more angry she becomes.#

    Exactly...one day her head might explode. I know that's a terrible thing to say when you consider what might happen to those eight poor cats she shares the bedsit with...and it might give the poor Scunthorpe CID a few headaches...but..whatever.

    To be honest, I'd decided to ignore her right up to the point she decided she was now some sort of intellectual heavyweight..I'm afraid that was taking things too far.

    I'm offski...btw. Didn't have a comment box on here again. Had to reboot and it's reappeared. I only chose offski so I could sign off by saying...Right, I'm offski.

  111. Hi guys,

    I know I said I would not be back but hey I lied.

    Am in premod (but that's cool)

    Am also being threatened (ish) by authority with sectioning. The things I do for you (sigh). It's cool but I want to put a marker down, yeah. I am not mad (well there is at least method to my madness duh).

    And guys stop the infighting, don't you get it? Solidarity? Unity? Or are you all just cocks climbing the dung heap?

    Hope you didn't / do not mind my messing, it's with good intentions.

    Keep up the fight (whatever it is) : )

    I still love you (mostly, hey I'm really nice but just a bit evil).

  112. This comment has been removed by the author.

  113. @Thaumaturge

    I see neilmac1921 has taken to calling you 'the mature urge'!

    [slow hand-clap]

  114. BB - normally I'd be in complete agreement, but this is someone who makes vicious personal attacks on another website based on her lurking here. Sometimes I just can't help it.

    (I'm not saying her lame attempt at me was vicious - on the contrary, rather funny in its cluelessness - but some of the things she's said about Montana certainly are.)

  115. MF

    *high five*

    First time I've guessed right about a poster's alternate identity, I think!

    I shall sleep a beautiful sleep tonight basking in the knowledge that I've cracked one.

  116. Very interesting - doesnotexist says that Andrew Brown posted a link to this site a few months ago. Anyone else notice that? I've been avoiding his threads in solidarity with the anti ATL trolling brigade.

    I've asked doesnotexist for a link....

  117. Good to read that your still in touch gandolfo. Have fun my friend.

    Hope you are having fun Sheff and your fried eggs are being well admired.

    Leni/PCC/Scherf/Medeve/et al - I was much interested in the points/observations that were starting to emerge in our chat about immigration/asylum on Sunday. I'm sorry I didn't get back to it. (I fell asleep after dinner and didn't wake 'till 3 am.)

    The subject has often occupied my walking/thinking space of late as I feel a shift in my traditional thinking/position is taking place.

    I feel a bit like one of the sailors assigned to take care of one the Titanic's half full lifeboats. I know that there are souls in the water drowning but if I row back too soon I know the boat will be swamped and all the more will be lost.

    Don't get me wrong I'm not a rivers of blood/swamped by foreigners lunatic. (My thinking is, I hope, much more complex than that) I very much like and appreciate the beneficial synergistic cultural impact that others bring to these shores. But there is also a strong streak of the 'greatest good for the greatest number' in me too, and I'm not convinced that the existing/proposed UK position deals with that at all.

    (And of course I am aware of the fraught position of dear Montana too - at least her UK forebear didn't take US citizenship, so that allows me to play a linguistic game (with mesen) to let her in...when I would willingly exclude other Yanks...)

    You might say I am mightly conflicted, as folk with views in transit often are.

    I'm much reminded of one of Hank's throw aways a few month's back.....(words to the effect of .. I'd give up some of the so called freedom for a bit more justice/fairness).

    As Scherf pointed out - the truth is that the times they are changing..... thus I do find I need to rethink my position albeit that it is hard and uncomfortable work

    My thinking at the minute is paused on the notion and possibilities of the "guest worker" - the supposed traditional German approach to the Turks...,but I don't know a great deal about the details of that system

    Anybody know anything about the rules/ details that apply/applied in Germany to guest workers.??

    PCC made an important point about Blair and the lunatic free marketeers, there was no need nor sense in jumping the gun on the east european economic migrants.

    That was a predictable and avoidable difficulty that really could only ever further undermine the conditions of the weakest in the UK. We should have had opened the door at the same time as the Germans/French and not before.

    Must get on and cook me dinner....

  118. Deano

    I'm much reminded of one of Hank's throw aways a few month's back.....(words to the effect of .. I'd give up some of the so called freedom for a bit more justice/fairness).

    I don't remember that comment, but my gut reaction is that justice and fairness are only born out of freedom. You're not going to find them in a repressive society.

    (Unless you're talking about market freedom, which is a completely different thing.)

  119. the mature urge - snigger.

    "I shall sleep a beautiful sleep tonight basking in the knowledge that I've cracked one."

    As opposed to the men, who will be basking in the knowledge that they have cracked one off...


    I'll get my coat.

  120. MF - couldn't work out if it was you or Hank.

    Hope offski doesn't disappear - he's fun to have around.

    And thaum, now you come to mention it, there is something bitey-esque about Bru in that sense. Lurking here, then taking side-swipes over there. Not very nice. Everyone has a right to reply here.

  121. [stands up] No, I am Offski!

    Waddaday. Said all i can say at the other place, I expect leo to be back in Ulysses by the end of the week if we don't get Lord S back. Shame but so it goes.

    Princess am quite sure Bru is a northern bruiser with a tranny side (and SocialistMike is either a Spectator staffer or SeamusMilne)

  122. ps - I ain't got in for the east europeans per say either...

    I really like goulash Medeve...

  123. BB, hah, I was going to say that and refrained. What does that say about you then, eh, eh ??

    I stopped reading Andrew Brown a year ago. Seriously wasteful endeavour.

  124. thauma - I think Hank's comment was primarily in the context of allegedly free markets but then there is lot of overspill into other frredoms too.

    I'd like to view myself as a world citizen with total freedom of movement and action..........but then in my heart I know that one man's freedom is all to often another's enslavement..

  125. BW

    Naughty naughty very naughty? :o)

    Deano - the immigration question is a thorny one. I would quite like to see us, as a nation, stop creating situations round the globe whereby people have to flee their homelands either from fear of being bombed or starving to death if at all possible, though. Then we can righteously seal our borders. But not before.

  126. You are an honorary geezer, BB ! And on a schoolnight too...

    Looks like half of CiF are set to rock up over here. Half the point of this place is the anger that gets silenced by Matt Scrotum and his little Grays Inn Road hunchbacks.

  127. Hi Deano

    I'll divide this post as it is a complicated issue - not all 'facts' are clear.

    To put my thinking in context - The latest figures issued by UN (last year) cite 43 million displaced people - includes registered refugees, asylum seekers and rejected economic migrants stuck somewhere/ Many of these people ae technically stateless. (This figure includes Palestinians - not registered who come under separate regime)

    Additionally we have EU Roma - who despite the so called Decade of the Roma are still doing very badly - lots of probs, including educational disadvantage. Taking Bulgaria as an example Roma get EU money for each child (admin. Bg. gvt) . nonRoma citizens - also poor with children - do not get this support. They do not appreciate that Roma come from very low base - this is a catch up exercise to try to bring them up to porest BG citizens. Result - increase in ethnic tension.

    Question - are they right to see the Roma as gaining unfair advantage?

    EU Roma have right of entry as do all Bgs. BG. gvt now trying to encourage ethnic Bgs to return - fear demographics.

    Members of first group have no automatic right of entry or resettlement unless UNHCR negotiates quota systems with individual accepting countries. They then come as refugees with negotiated support packages.

    Already we see divisions and in places the dreaded 'identity politics'

  128. For what it is worth the comment on the K'gard thread that got deleted (well the bit that probably got it done) was something about the picture he had drawn off me (all deleted of course but it has left ghosts) being more of a self portrait painted in his own spunk.

    Now, now BW, tit for tat forgives even Matt.

    Hope you guys are well (and Kiz, you were the only one to notice me spinning up last time : ) I'm impressed )

    And please if I screech for help (not likely but just in case) call in the cavalry or at least four horsepersons.

  129. BW - I've been spending less and less time on Cif lately, but someone on Waddya today made an oblique comment to the effect that Matty had been pushed aside after the 'last uprising', or words to that effect.

    And, true enough, I haven't seen him around. Does anyone know the dirt?

  130. Pen I'm sorry to hear you are in premod, are you OK?

    Why are you being threatened by authority with sectioning? That sounds serious. You don't seem mad to me but hey what do I know...

    I don't mind your messing, it's with good intentions I don't think you upset anyone.
    Take care Pen


  131. Heyhabib

    I haven't talked to you for a long time...I remember the Wizard of Oz and the song, very funny specially our back-peddling when we found we were wrong about the wicked witch!

    Similar attitude after the meerkat fiasco non?


  132. Rednorth is rocking on Waddya. More power to her elbow.

  133. Meanwhile, here's Big Mama Thornton.

    That'll be Buddy Guy on guitar too. 1965. Ace.

  134. LordS:

    I've only been posting on CiF for six months and already I'm dicing with death. The moderators are charmless fuckwits.

    What pisses me off is that they moderate for offense. All they should stamp on is what's legally proscribed - libel, incitement to violence, slander and the like. Racist, anti-semitic, sexist and whatever other 'ist' offends in the discursive landscape should be be tolerated.

    I'd even extend the prohibition to crude swearing - I mean, what crude cunt needs to blaspheme?

    Don't get me wrong, I don't like abusive tossers like me, but we have a right to be heard.

  135. thaumaturge
    Hardly spent any time there meself so hadn't noticed he got the sack. (Been in pre mod seven months, kind of got the message !)

    They're all out of the same test tube though.

    Pen, not sure what the tit for tat thing is about. Because I've been rude over here ?

    Anyway, hope you're ok.

    Likewise you Deano.

    I'm off. Mrs Weed has wine open and a fire lit.

  136. We (as a Nation) have created many of the DPs and do litle to improve social and economic conditions across the globe.

    Guest workers - and other expat workers sending money home outdperform international aid .

    several countries worry about children born to guest workers - should they be given Brit nationality> Israel is legislating against this provision. Some GWs in Arab countries are so badly treated that some countries discourage their people from going there - 1 or 2 are talking about legislating to stop their citizens going. Some host nations issue only short term contract - perhaps only 2 years. They do not want them to intermarry and settle.

    Guest working brings its own problems and offers little security. In times of recession first to be paid off - and sent home.

    DPs, Roma, GW and EUcitizens - who gets (should get?) priority. What about the as yet uncounted desperate people shoving off in leaky boats , often to be pushed out to sea again- estimates suggest thousands drown each year.

  137. BB - I don't really want to 'seal the borders' at all.

    But as things stand,, the movement of people, under all sorts of guises, is working more to the advantage of the well to do (both in the UK and the ex pat country of the emigrees) at the expense of the working classes (here or there).

    Given the UK's long record of being shitty to the peoples of the world the simple moral position is that we really ought to have an open door policy for just about anyone. That's convenient for the well to do but fucking difficult for the less well off who never benefited a great deal from the original shittiness either.

    .......as you say, it's thorny issue the thinking through of which is a headache on an empty stomach.

    time to eat

    Hoe things went ok with the meeting with the foster son's mother.

  138. BW - sounds like you have a nice evening ahead of you, mate, enjoy it!

    Peter Bracken - I usually disagree with what you have to say, but will defend your right to say it, etc. Welcome to the UT. You may find some robust arguments against your ideas here - that don't get deleted.

    Me, I'm having one more fag before retiring to my sumptuous and well-appointed boudoir.

  139. Thanks, Deano. Have met her three or four times now and we get on fine. She is just not able to have the boys at home right now (younger bro is with the dad) and I wonder if she will ever be able to have "our" one home, as they seem to clash quite a bit, although they clearly love each other. A fair bit of history there.

    We don't mind if we are in for the long haul, though. He has been fine apart from the odd blip here and there - not used to boundaries so one or two problems with some we have set - but he and my lad get on fine together, and he pulls his weight.

  140. PeterBracken

    Wot thauma said, and bienvenu! :o)

  141. (still haven't got over that you once said I reminded you of your Mother, though, and in a scary way...)

  142. Deano - that's my starting position - also doing rethink but don't know where to start.
    Big prob in human relations terms is that we have poor and desperate incomers challenging the already poor here for few resources and diminishing services. i fervently believe that anybody within national boundaries must be given same rights as everyone else - for however long they stay. . Large concentrations of DPs in one place leads to lack of these right - Palestinians in Lebanon for instance. Large numbers of Burmese Muslims in KSA , Many DPs at the moment are in Arab countries and SE Asia - as well as in obvious conflict areas.

    Going to open wine - first for about 2 months.

    The 'unwanted' tend to be coralled

  143. The 'Unwanted ... tagged on at end should have been ahead of @Large concentrations -

    Very tired

  144. Deano

    Given the UK's long record of being shitty to the peoples of the world the simple moral position is that we really ought to have an open door policy for just about anyone. That's convenient for the well to do but fucking difficult for the less well off who never benefited a great deal from the original shittiness either.

    Well said, mate. Unfortunately an open-doors border is always going to benefit the upper classes at the expense of the working classes.

  145. Last thought Deano - touched on previously - freedom of movement advantages educated and wealthy - also causes development problems in many places.

    The pure numbers involved - the number of countries producing refugees and would be emigrants makes simple legislation impossible.

    Humanity and support - we need - we need.

  146. It was intended to be flirtatiously benign, BB - and disarmingly penitent.

    I recall it had the desired effect...(!)

  147. And on that note, I am off up the wooden hill to Bedfordshire. Early start again tomorrow. Argh.

    Night night all x

  148. Hi guys (just popping by)

    BW "tit for tat" is dominant strategy in social dilemmas/ prisoner's dilemma (2-person soc dil), start nice if other nice stay nice if other nasty be nasty, when/if they start play nice forgive past nasties and play nice too. See? Live and let live (live by the sword and die by it).

    re im/emigration (have been both myself of course green carded I am ) most people don't want to wander, like where they live don't they?

    I fought for ten years and wandered ten years more. A stranger sailing a secret sea, a bit of jetsam beached on a foreign shore. And now I have reached my natal land I am a stranger to all having suffered a sea change.

    It's cool. I had a hot young blonde orbit me in Boots, I do so love shopping to subvert the economic system. I am the eternal rebel.

    Love you guys

  149. Cheers - enjoy the wine.

    Lucky you (and BW - don't burn your arse on the fire brother!).

    I'm having a self imposed dry spell, which in-itself is enjoyable since the the pleasure in 'giving it a rest' is so greatly enhanced when you then decide to open the next bottle.

    Absence makes the heart grow fonder and the tongue hang out.....in anticipation

    Lots to think about in what you've added on the subject tonight. I'm a little tired too, these day's I have a great propensity to fall asleep when I eat!

    I'm sure we'll pick up the discussion again in due course. At least I hope so.

    habib good to see you back to your cheery self.

  150. pen Cheers friend - stay cool.

  151. Leni - that at 22.24 was directed primarily at your good self. Fuck knows why your name dissappeared from the start of it.?

    Good night all.

  152. Deano, always laughing, mate. Song for Peter Bracken, welcome to here, our kid.

  153. Heavy modding and deletion day on cif huh. Cif I suppose has been a victim of it's own sucess.

    It is interesting that Cif has spawned two sites, this website and cifwatch. Both for different reasons, but both would not have existed without cif. And there are probably many others spawned from cif that are less well known.

    I was once in pre mod for a grand total of 2 hours. That must be a record for a minimum time on pre mod. I posted something on an I/P thread which was vaporised instantly so I posted it again and they got pissed off and put me on pre mod.

  154. Hi Pen Hi PeterB

    Night and bless all.

  155. Fucking hell, awful day getting up at the crack of sparrows for a meeting down in Vauxhall,arsey train coming back (someone else's rolling stock was the excuse...)late, and the men in camel coats with satchels had the upper hand at Cheltenham today (but the war's not lost yet), and come back online to find the CiF staff have gone beyond surly to semi-Stalinist, in denial as to their own shortcomings which are legion. Deletions,pre-modding and banning for ideological reasons, because of personal dislikes and enmities on their part,and for complete humour by-passes.
    What a fucking shambles.
    LordS banned is risible, pre-mod for PeterB and pen is bizarre (I may disagree with what they say on occasion, but the've never struck me as contravening the guidelines as expressed: aye, there's the rub...).
    Very glad to see MF/offski (top name,q a weegie term) back and kicking off to good effect.
    The CiF staff just haven't got the balls to front up and admit that they moderate on ideological grounds, and to 'disappear' cogent criticism of their sacred cow ATLers.Oh, and what the fuck is wrong with good swearing (on which point, you know that post of mine dubbing James Purnell cuntychops never got deleted, though it possibly will be now).Ah well, so fucking what, it's their website and if they want it to vanish up their hypocritical arses, they're doing a damn fine job.
    To be frank, purely from a business perspective, I can't see how the paper is going to survive. It's put all its efforts into an online presence which is free, then piss off a helluva lot of active readers (and that's before the blinkered cheerleading for Our Glorious Leader,Brown. They seem to be wanting readers to do their work (you know, the writing stuff...) for them, for free or a pittance, and to be able to patronise condescend to, and indeed abuse said readers. Oh, and the paper's sole monetary lifeline of a quasi-monopoly on public sector job adverts, well that won't last for long: the Tories have intimated they'll end that, while even if a fucking dreadful combo of Brown and Balls (Jesus wept) are in no 10 and 11 after the election, there won't be the money.
    The Islingtinistas and cosy journalistic chatterati with their evident disdain for real people and their unbridled opinions are going to get a sharp awakening pretty darn soon, I think. You'd reckon they'd want to foster loyalty and community with readers (y'know with an eye to subscription eventually:page hits for adverts don't pay very much really), but no, they'd rather be smug and doomed, censorious and insistent that tepid third-way relativism is ever so right.

  156. 2 last things:
    a) apols for typos above
    b) Best wishes pen.Hopefully, it's just a snotty CPN or social worker threatening sectioning. If not, and it looks imminent flag it up, and I can outline your (slender) legal safeguards, and appeals processes if need be.

  157. Hi all. Sometimes someone throws something your way when you need it; I write silly reviews of hotels for Hereisthecity.com and suddenly someone drops out of luxury trip to Cyprus and I get it. Tomorrow three days.

    There may yet be a God.

    About bloody time.

    Ms R

  158. Thanks Alisdair,

    It's cool, I've got my parents on-side this time (I think, you never know where a traitor may lurk, believe me, I am one) and they're both ex GPs. I have other forces / resources here and there too.

    I called them in this time which shows insight (duh) and, anyway, none of them really know why how if the 'drugs' work do they? And I have had research grants with Harvard professors on physician diagnosis. I do know what I talk about and if I don't I usually am aware of that too.

    But it is always better to subvert the enemy and then have a party and not a battle : ) Sun Tzu The art of war.

    But you know I am always on the look out for allies. So thanks again.

    Night all (thanks Leni, I always like good students : ) )

    Hi MsR, lots of fun eh enjoy : )

  159. Hey All, Just heard from Leni about the banning of LordS. Very sorry yo hear that. Been pre-modded twice now.

    Not sure what's going on anymore at CiF... hardly seems worth it.

    La Rit

  160. evening peterb and napoleon, and hello pen! hope your forces/resources are marshalled.

    and well done MsR, sounds lovely - am v envious.

    am just going to go an check up on the rubble over at waddya.

  161. H Larit

    I am so tired I can hardly see. Can go a couple of months with about 4 hrs. sleep a night and then spend 3 days nodding off while walking around/

    we will all finish up here - we should save up for a lifeboat and call it Montana.


  162. Hmm... will mull that over Pen. While we're at it, enjoy this.


  163. Bercow sounds more and more like Barbara Woodhouse every time I tune into to Today in Westminster.

  164. Whoops. The moderators are so upset, they've left Freedland's Israel piece open overnight. The links to anti-semitic hate sites have already started landing; it's going to be carnage tomorrow.

  165. The good Ship Montana Wildship????

    Going to check out the Freedland thread... that should be amusing!