22 March 2010


Algonquin warriors killed 347 English settlers from the Jamestown colony in what is now Virginia in 1622.  The first international Rugby Union match between England and France was played at the Parc des Princes in Paris in 1906.  It was a 35-8 victory for the English.  Valery Polyakov returned to Earth in 1995, after a record-setting 438 days in space.

Born today:  Anthony VanDyck (1599-1641), Marcel Marceau (1923-2007), William Shatner (1931), George Benson (1943), Andrew Lloyd Webber (1948), Fanny Ardant (1949) and Lena Olin (1955).

It is the feast day of Basil of Ancyra.


  1. Home now & hepped up on albuterol & prednisone. Breathing much better. I'll get a bit of info up. Thanks, Edwin.

  2. Oh thank goodness Montana. x

    Good morning all, I am back from my press trip to Cyprus. The bath would have fit four people. I was alone in it.

    Has anyone been arrested/modded/banned/knighted/given lots of money?

  3. Good morning world.

    Glad you had good trip MsR, bathing alone is matter of choice for a charming young woman like your good self. Not the best of weekends here on UT but we survive to move onwards and upwards.

    Glad to read the breathing is easier Montana.

    turminder my dear friend, thank you for your email and the kind and warm words therein. It was good to read that you are on top of the game and able to move forwards without my intended meagre contribution. You can be assured that if I ever find myself down your way in the Borders I would be delighted to call in and see you.

    That's me done for the day, now I must get on with business of getting sober, taking the dogs for a walk, and the next phase of the intended brewhouse....

    best wishes and regards to all who call here.

  4. All best wishes Montana, hope you are tickety-boo ASAP. Glad you liked the RT Deano, cheers again. ; )

    Back to work, weird to be shaven and awake before 8AM!

  5. 'Has anyone been arrested/modded/banned/knighted/given lots of money?'

    Well I asked for a comment of mine to be removed and the mods have ignored me which must be unusual. Also, a comment I posted a few weeks ago mentioning Victoria Brittain's bank account and the Ghanaian secret service still stands, which is even odder as they usually go in 10 mins.

    My guess is the mods are overworked!

  6. For Ms Robinson, from the Greek of Sappho -

    The moon sinks
    And the Plaeides -
    It is Midnight
    And I lie here (in my bath) alone

  7. Morning all

    Brownie points to Obama for getting his health care bill through, but still don't understand what's 'socialist' about it.

    Whilst back in blighty our yet more of our politicos are caught out, this time with their sticky fingers in the lobby troughs.

  8. New day, new week, but to just finish off from yesterday: deano,mate you are a star, full of the humanity that ought to be common but sadly isn't. Re: GSH, myself and the Duke had a blether on here about the man just last week (near the start of posts on the 15th of March). Album is v.good, if a little brief, and I put a link up on the 15th to the stand out track.
    Best wishes montana (and good luck pen in your battles)

  9. Wow look at the new snazy visitor counter up on the right margin of UT!!

  10. Morning all - Montana, hope you feel better soon

    Mentioning single-issue campaigns yesterday, the lobbying business would be a good one.

    This from The Telegraph:

    Labour pledged yesterday to introduce laws to bar former ministers from lobbying for a year after leaving office.

    The party’s election manifesto will also promise to introduce a new “statutory register” of lobbyists and their clients.

    The problem here is that everyone has known for years that lobbying is simply buying legislation or influence or whatever you want if you have enough money.

    So why has nobody said or done anything?

    If you had a register, overseen by a non-government, non-business body which publicly showed what money was on the table to achieve what ends, with unlimited fines and prison sentences for those who sought to subvert the system (perhaps by nobbling and lobbying the oversight body), it would at least show what the going rate of Parliamentary whoredom is at any given time.

    The same applied to MPs' expenses. Jon Snow on Channel 4 News said that the salary, expenses and benefits package for MPs was worth about a quarter of a million per annum on average several years ago as an off-the-cuff remark.

    Nobody did anything. Nobody was outraged or demanded an investigation.

    So what is it that finally tips people into action?

  11. Deano

    Morning chuck. there's a lovely little piece on cif about regional accents from Ian McMillan, son of of South Yorkshire, Barnsley in particular.

  12. So what is it that finally tips people into action?

    A newspaper picking up on the story and running with it would seem to be the answer to that. We all 'know' this stuff but we get it in drips and drabs and often don't connect the whole story until it's there on a single page in front of us.

    Get well soon, Montana.

  13. @Deano - thank you sir and @Edwin for the poem.

    I am mortified that nobody else has been banned while I have been away. Though I would bet that given the mods behaviour of late they are overworked. Well done Obama..it is a very compromised bill however it is a good move

    SheffPixie...This is a country that asks you if you're a communist on your entry form. Socialism to them is anything they don't understand.

  14. Summerisle

    Not altogether. A newspaper picking it up might put more of the pieces of the picture in front of more people in a shorter time, but it does not necessarily lead to anything.

    As far as the MPs' expenses goes, we are still relying on the good intentions of the government, this or the next, to fix it and maintain it.

    Apart from some lone and scattered people, like the man with the trestle table, some leaflets and a clipboard and a makeshift banner made from an old bedsheet, who campaigned to have Julie Kirkbride deselected, we have done almost nothing.

    You could say that the collective "we" of The Guardian newspaper and the CiFerati decided that New Labour was going to be utterly humiliated and ground into the dust at the election, but even that looks like it may not quite happen the way it was collectively assumed as an unquestionable given.

    It would seem that the government is not very keen on fixing something which, for them, is very far from broken.

    It would seem that newspapers and the media generally do not have as much ability to speak truth to power and bring them to account as we might have thought. After all, they are following their own agendas, not ours.

    It would seem that the people are not that bothered, perhaps because they think that, given the chance (and hoping against hope that one day they get it) they would do the same and pocket the loot and run.

  15. This is the question that used to be asked on entry:

    'Do you seek to enter the United States to engage in export control violations, subversive or terrorist activities, or any other unlawful purpose? Are you a member or representative of a terrorist organization as currently designated by the U.S. Secretary of State? Have you ever participated in persecutions directed by the Nazi government of Germany; or have you ever participated in genocide?'

    It was Gilbert Harding, I think, who gave the magnificent reply 'Not sole purpose of visit'

    Finally got round to reading Phillipa and His Grace's pieces - marvellous

  16. ... they would do the same and pocket the loot and run.

    I don't think so. I think it's more that people may have considered expenses and lobbying a justifiable perk of those who have done a good job, or at least something they were prepared to not think very much about.

    But I think the financial crisis brought it home to people that MPs have, regardless of their political hue, been doing a pretty shitty job in the very areas that it's taken as read that they ought to be competent.

  17. Montana,

    Sorry to hear you've not been well, asthma? Have it myself (fortunately mildly though) it's horrible. I watched 30 days of night recently, rubbish horror film with two things going for it: the hero was a big tough cop and asthmatic (so fed up of it always being the whiny nerd) and one of the main characters was hot!


    Those entry questions bring back memories of being a teenager, in an arrivals lounge so dimly lit my parents couldn't read and fill out their immigration cards themselves, discussing with my brother which boxes we should tick on our Dad's card!

  18. I think it's more that people may have considered expenses and lobbying a justifiable perk of those who have done a good job...

    I wouldn't think so, for several reasons.

    There has never seemed to be a general thrust of opinion that MPs do a good job. For most people, they do not know who their MP is, so they cannot really say whether they are doing well or badly. The most commonly reported view of how MPs are regarded is that they are a mixture of useless, venal and corrupt and that view is not new.

    Expenses may have been thought of as purely the necessary reimbursement of unavoidable and legitimate outgoings in the performance of the job - which is how other people have to operate.

    However, the term "put it on expenses" has a popular connotation of being illegitimate, even if it is just a salesman taking his mistress out to lunch and getting the company to pay. The fact is that most people will never experience the luxury and bounty of expenses, so they will not be working from a position of favouring or accepting the process.

    Lobbying can never have been seen as a perk. Nobody would think that being paid to subvert legislation is a legitimate part of being an MP.

    Most people do not earn anything like an MP's salary - most people will be on something like a quarter of it - so it is unlikely that their general view will be that it needs 'topping up', especially when their own wage will be all they ever see, however hard they work.

    It is also interesting to see how the figures of 3-5 grand a day are being extrapolated by some of the media. One article said something like: "That's more than some people earn in a month."

    Yes, it is certainly true that "some" people are unfortunate enough not to be earning £36 000 - £60 000 per annum.

    Oh, for "some" obviously read "almost all."

  19. Montana - best wishes, hope the hep helps!

    Atomboy - on the spam / moderation thing, I managed to post that comment without finishing it (was rather tired and clearly not paying attention) - it's just that I hadn't seen a 'spam attack' like that (I see GIYUS differently...) so thought perhaps that the night-shift is perhaps smaller than the day-shift, and has been for a while (this being the first 'proof'), but if GIYUS was also 'staying up' longer than the usual 3.5 seconds, then your argument seems more likely. Maybe they are hoping we then start crying out for more moderation! Surely not hard to actually see what was being asked for...


  20. Atomboy, I think you're working on the premise that everyone has always been as well informed about expenses and lobbying as they are now and that's not the case. It hinges on scale.

    There's expenses and then there's EXPENSES. There's lobbying and then there's LOBBYING.

    Without the media putting all the information in one place in easily digestible form, most people simply don't have the time nor the inclination to put on the deerstalker and follow the money to see if there's a story there. When people suspect it's all in 'lower case' they'll turn the blind eye, it's no big deal. When it's shown to be in 'upper case' they get angry.

    This goes to the discussion we all had a while back about informing on the benefit cheat next door. If they're decent neighbours and pulling in a few quid they're not entitled to then you aren't worried. If they're a bunch of wankers and have a string of houses paid for out of state benefits then you get on the phone.

    I've got work to do folks, back later probably.

  21. PhilippaB

    I would think that moderation is run on a shoestring and that there is no intention or financial ability to change this.

    It has always seemed - and is, of course, simply the most likely scenario - that weekends and nights are run on skeleton staff. The problem with that is the fact that CiF wants to go international, with someone from the staff team asking if anyone knew anyone from India who speaks English who would like to join the fun during the tea-party.

    Giyus, of course, is not a spammer. If he changed his style and the construction of his name, he might even get away with it, although I have noticed that I have been banned even under dormant accounts, so perhaps CiF is getting a bit more clever.

    Maybe they are hoping we then start crying out for more moderation!

    That is probably the case. I have never argued for nil moderation - only that it should be consistent and comply with its own stated guidelines.

    Still, Seaton has assured us that this is the case, so we really have nothing to gripe about, do we?

    Added to which, we know we will never actually do anything, even if CiF said it reserved the right to change comments in order to make them comply with the site's ideological and political line.

    Given a bit more time, people will not even notice that what they are typing is only ever what they know they are expected to type.

  22. At last....the government have finally responded to the childcare debacle and have agreed that:

    Unpaid childcare arrangements between friends will be legally exempt from Ofsted registration and inspection under new legislation the Government announced today.

    From April this year, friends caring for one another's children without payment are no longer included within the remit of Ofsted.

    One small victory against the jobsworths...!!

    Press release

  23. Fair points, Summerisle, and you are right, of course, to say that for most people, as long as it does not affect them, they are not bothered, along with the fact that they are not interested in the first place.

    We also constantly adapt our principles to fit our mutable needs as we go along.

    It is not as if they are things which need to be proved by consistency, is it?

  24. The news has just reach me by personal courier - the stage coach being delayed so I just logged in here to send best wishes to LordSummerisle in exile. (Hard to imagine you being more exiled than you are in the Isle of Whithorn, however)

    And I thought I was unjustly treated being pre-modded just for making death theats against Simon Jenkins. (Surely we all need to do that occasionally?) It does seem a bit harsh to be banned for discussing moderation. Super-injunction next, perhaps.

    Good luck all.

  25. Hello and welcome grubhater.

    Thank you Alisdair for your generous comment. Given my privileged lifestyle it is easy for me to try to show humanity. What keeps me posting on UT is the sure and certain knowledge that the kind of humanity I aspire to, is shared in bucketloads by most of those who also post here. Your fine` self included.

    At times the weekend here was anything but civilised and I was genuinely saddened that Hank, who I had much respect for, missed the point big time and lost the plot completely.

    I would feel less of myself had I not committed that sincere view to the record. He was, in my opinion, unfair and unnecessarily unkind, both to Scherf and more especially to Montana. That he explicitly recognised his own alcoholic tendency will I hope help him in the longer term. I originally came to UT out of an admiration for his postings so I would wish him well and hope he sees and tackles the danger of becoming embittered. Heavens knows I have my own occasional booze induced madness but his this weekend was in my book profoundly sad.

    Sheff my lovely thank you for the heads up to the enjoyable Ian piece. I don't know the guy personally but my sometime woman is a great fan of his and used to work with him in schools with the kids. She always says that he is a genuine nice and decent man whose company is pleasurable thing to have..

    If I have him correctly identified I think that I heard that he suffered a dreadful and tragic loss of his young daughter in recent years. One of those fucking nightmare accidents that could so easily destroy you, so it is especially good to see him back working.

    Ok - coffee break over.

  26. I hope that it is you Scherf that is appearing as our Danish friend on the new visitor counter and that it is the Duke over there in Holland as our Dutch visitor??

  27. ooh, liking ther visitor counter! yes, deano, think 'france' is moi.

    right - french lesson. stand by for france to leave the ticker...

  28. Like the lurker log.

    Personally, surely the more others who visit the better? So I hope Scherf is not the dane, the the duke the dutch.

    Hi MsR hope the trip was enjoyable and useful. Had a hottub in my US garden. Was fun, a bottle of beer, a spliff but ahhh my wife would not join me (at least not for sexy nude shenanigans). So I know the sorrow of a single bath (but there is more room : ) )

    Thank AlisdairC, it's cool, I cannot lose having already lost. Ghosts are hard to kill and revenants just come back.

  29. See your point pen - but there have been lots of international visitors whose possible identities that I don't have clue about.

    Viz Sweeden/Germany/USA(unlikely Montana at the time in question) etc

  30. Morning/afternoon all....


    (*puffing chest out in pride)

    T'Brazil one is me!!!

  31. Montana

    Hope you're feeling better soon. Best wishes...

  32. Hi Montana - sorry you feeling so rough - I hope the meds start to help you feel better very soon.

    Deano - I too share your tears.

    I apologise now if my posts are misspelt and unreadable (more than usual heh heh) because my 'puter has done something weird to my writing on UT and it is very very small. So hard to spot mistakes etc.

    Anne - thought you did a great post the other day. Truly great.

    Paul - thanks for your reply to me. I do agree that in the UK as in the US capitalism is woven into the very fabric of society. But I do think that capitalism as we know it is collapsing and therefore something will have to follow it. That something could be along the lines of socialism etc or unfortunately a return to a new sort of feudalism.

    I read a really interesting report by a right wing US think tank about a year ago and have never been able to find the bloody thing since. Anyway they basically said that by the end of this century the world would not be living under modern capitalism as it is now. The reasons for this were the crisis and the still remaining massive fault lines within the financial system, rising costs of the welfare that has made modern capitalism able to grow as it has (after all the one thing Marx could not have predicted was the welfare state - take it away because we 'cant afford it' and all bets could be off as to the consequences) and the fact that oil and other resources are becoming more scarce - effectively meaning we will face more and more severe recessions/depressions as high oil prices choke the economy. This was a Washington based conservative think tank stating all of this.

    So I suppose I do not believe the system will still be going strong in fifty years for example and my view is we need to find a way to orgnise ourselves that wont end in blowing ourselves up as resources become scarce etc. But I do agree with you re the UK and it is my eternal upset that i was not born Norwegian and that I live in a country where most of the people are complacently happy to accept not just capitalism but a viscious form of capitalism.

  33. Oh and PeterB - Have you ever thought that some of us have to remain annonymous. I would actually really like to write a blog (I admire MSR and hers and others and have often thought of it) but I am more than a little concerned as there is a male personage in my past who I would not like to find me.

    He would not be able to from current details of my life given here and there but of course my name and pic would alert him to it being me. It is something I am considering because I would like to be able to write stuff under my own name and would actually as have said like to write a blog maybe (not that I think I have anything that interesting to say but it would be fun for me if not my readers!). But I am not sure if the danger is passed as it were.

  34. Re Capitalism

    (an 'I'm probably talking shite' caveat applies to the following)

    Has anyone else noticed the irony of the fact that, considering we did the whole 'end of history and the last man' thing a good 20 years ago, it's quite funny that now, China seems to be one of the only wobbly beams holding up the entire capitalist system.....?

    Just struck me as a bit amusing, is all....

  35. And on that note, I just got 'tweeted' this from the onion:


  36. Yeah, good one James. Way to clear a thread there....

    I'm getting my coat!!

  37. Ooh who's the Canadian and whereabouts in Canada are you?

  38. Hi All--glad to see you are feeling better Montana, take care.

    Dot--It could be me, though I hadn't posted before this entry. West coast of Vancouver Island.

  39. Good day, morning, evening Untrustees!

    about the flashy thing:

    [object id="99counters217565" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" data="http://www.99counters.com/counters.swf?id=217565" width="120" height="160" wmode="transparent"><param name="movie" value="http://www.99counters.com/counters.swf?id=217565" /][param name="wmode" value="transparent" /][embed src="http://www.99counters.com/counters.swf?id=217565" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="120" height="160"][/embed][br /]

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    so, we can expect to get spam from the exploiters of:

    www.mpthrill.com, www.onlinecasinoextra.com

    after all, it's free!

    (pointy brackets replaced by square ones)

    I'm going to install NoScript and block it.

  40. Hi Boudican,

    Probably is you, if I understand how these things work. I was asking because I love Canada, the landscape, the culture, my friends there, although I've only been to the east coast!

  41. 'Has anyone else noticed the irony of the fact that, considering we did the whole 'end of history and the last man' thing a good 20 years ago, it's quite funny that now, China seems to be one of the only wobbly beams holding up the entire capitalist system.....? '

    Yeh and 15 years ago the Japanese were going to rule everybody else. In NORN Ireland it was how the Catholics were going to breed so much there would be standing room only in NI. And now it's the Muslims are going to outbreed everybody.

    As for technology, can't remember who said it, but 60s/70s kids like me are the generations Raymond Baxter fibbed to!

  42. It's not Raymond Baxter's fault that you can't spread jam on your CDs, Edwin.

  43. I know predictions are often a bit shonky, but it's more the triumphalism/'in yer face any other system' attitude that seemed to be so misplaced, rather than the prediction, per se, which is now looking a little bit exposed.

    I just think it's a bit funny that we don't seem to be seeing as many 'Country with definite Communist tendencies saves Western Capitalism' headlines as we did 'We won 'em' ones back in the day!!

  44. Sheff silly me I'm confusing Ian McMillan with Ian Clayton!

    It was Clayton who sadly lost one of his twin kids in a boating accident. Poor man had to choose which of his two kids he would save, enough to send most folk mad.

    James yea of course! I remember you saying you were down in Brazil.

  45. 'It's not Raymond Baxter's fault that you can't spread jam on your CDs, Edwin'

    Not even Baxter's jam, alas,

    I haven't got the flashing counter thingy you lot can see - is this one of those cos-I-is-mac things or am I just looking in the wrong place as usual.

  46. Good afternoon all,

    safely in the Netherlands. Drove over on the Newcastle to Amsterdam ferry and we are now in our flat awaiting our stuff being shipped over. First day at work today and everything appears to be going smoothly, if a bit of a whirl.

    Just to let you know that although I am no longer in Scotland, I have a lot contacts still there and am pally with quite a few people.

    If you require any advocacy or lobbying regarding Scotland, I charge between £30-£50 a time. Just think of me as a "cab for hire".


  47. Right - have just checked the regional election results (second-round smackdown) and the Languedoc assembly is
    Freche's group - 54.2% - 44 seats
    UMP - 26.4% - 13 seats
    Fash - 19.4% - 10 seats
    (turnout little under 53%)
    Well done PS. Bloody brilliant. Gah.

    Last time was
    PS 43 seats
    UMP 16
    Fash 8

    So on the upside UMP/Sarko did still take a kicking but on the downside this benefited the FN.

  48. PCC I think somebody once explained that you can change the text size by keying CTRL + (plus sign) and CTRL - (minus sign)?? Don't know if that will sort your machine it works on my laptop.

  49. PCC (and deano) - have now worked out why my text keeps getting annoyingly small, it's when I hit CTRL while scrolling up down on mouse with little wheely thing. So try CTRL+scroll up if deano's suggestion fails to embiggen things.

  50. Hiya Duke, glad you've made it safe and sound! (Now we'll see how your furniture is....)

  51. Yr Grace

    I think you left off a few noughts! Glad the trip went smoothly.

    I'm planning to move down in to an old industrial area of the city within the next couple of months as I need to downsize. Its close to the river and have just seen a fab flat this morning in what wasonce a cutlery works. Has a huge balcony overlooking the city. So please all, keep your fingers crossed for me!


    If I do get this place, the Fat Cat and the Kelham Island Tavern are across the road and the Riverside, the Harlequin and the Gardners Rest are all within five minutes walk. So great pubs, good company, food, booze and music all within a few minutes walk. Oh please god be kind just this once and let me get it!

  52. Edwin I don't have a fancy machine. I'm on a ten year old Toshibia.Currently using Firefox as a browser.

    The visitor counter is just below the avatars of the 50 registered followers of UT. At the minute it is indicating that there are 15 people logged into UT, mostly from the UK thus the Union flag along with Stars and Stripes (1 person) and the Brazilian flag (1 person) are showing too. It also indicates that we have had some 300+ visitors today.

    Clever little gizmo hope you can get to see it!

  53. Sheff sounds great - fingers crossed for you girl.

  54. Edwin - the gizmo is also there if I use Google Chrome as the browser to access UT.

  55. Good luck with that Sheff.

    Liking the snazzy new "who's logged in and where" gizmo. The Netherlands is mine and if anyone dares share it, I swear I'll do time.

    LordS, what's the script with CiF, are they letting you back on?

  56. Deano

    337 now, thats a lot of lurkers we have then. I wonder why? Do you think they come for the periodic fisticuffs, which can be quite spectacular or the lefty politics?

  57. Sheff - am crossing things and touching wood for you!

  58. am also makingg soup, but that is unconnected to sheff's proposed relocation. hmm, spicy.

  59. Deano,

    I just got tweeted this:


    about firefox.

  60. btw deano - I loved that little story of Ian McM's about the two be-suited Sheffield gents who were have a right good set to but when the change fell out of their pockets, stopped to pick it up before lamping each other again. So typical of this place!

  61. Sheff,

    Do we have that many lurkers or does it up the count every time one of us logs off then on again?

  62. Thats probably it Dot - everytime you reload the page to check for new comments would be another hit too. Duh! should have thought of that.

  63. We're not (in)famous after all Sheff!

  64. Sheff

    Good luck with the new place. It sounds pretty good.

    I think you will find the lurkers might be people like me, though. Load page, have a look, close page - repeat throughout the day. I could be wrong.

    If anyone had a think about Seaton's claims for the three million people who visit CiF each month and then divided this by the number of days, number of hours, number articles - you begin to see that maybe they are in a panic because the numbers never will generate the money needed.

    The only way it works is if people keep adding content and clicking on adverts. The ones who do neither are simply a cost and they must outnumber the ones who contribute material or revenues substantially.

    They are probably trying to make it more anodyne, more marshmallow, more beige in order not to scare away the newcomers, but forgetting that this will annoy the regulars and drive them away and failing to notice that people actually don't really like being inveigled into boredom.

    In looking from the outside for the last week or whatever it has been, all I can say is that I wonder more and more why I bothered and what I actually saw in it.


  65. Right, off to buy a new suit.

    Wearing the same one you've had for 10 years when, in a certain light, you can see ones underwear through the threadbare backside is considered inappropriate now, apparently...

  66. G'day your Grace.

    In theory they're letting me back tomorrow if I email and ask nicely. But I may have to leave it until Thursday because I might not be around until then.

    Hope all's well with you in Holland/The Netherlands

  67. Don't most of these counters tot up unique IP addresses? In which case the 350+ visits are probably web spiders, indexers, aggregators, link scanners and all the other various bits of web paraphernalia that clog up the net.

  68. Good luck with the flat, Sheff!

  69. Thanks James will use Chrome in future I usually do so no problem.

    Dott I think there is some of us on/off involved in the count, but I think there are quite few lurkers too. Perhaps they'll come down and join us one day.Interesting question(s)

    Dog walking catch you guys later.

  70. That Canadian flag is back so it looks like Boudican back on line? or it could be 3p4 or a silent lurker??

  71. Evening all

    Another lovely afternoon dealing with the Educational Enforcement Nazis on behalf of foster child. Apparently we are legally responsible for him not attending school but if we wish to take him off the school roll and home educate him we can't - his mother has to do it. (Not that she is opposed to it, and neither are the SS - they think it's a good idea.)

    But the EWO is a complete and utter bitch and, actually, a spiteful one at that. She doesn't like me because I am not a disempowered poverty-stricken single mum she can bully, so she flexes her claws viciously every time we meet. She has decided that she will have to meet with the lad's mother and make sure she fully understands what it entails - despite us all discussing it at length with uncle tom cobbley and all at a Family Group Conference a month ago - one that the Education Nazi didn't attend.

    Still. I suppose she has to show just how much power she actually has... which is essentially very little because if she fucks up the lad's education just to show how big and clever she is, there will be very serious repercussions from us.

  72. PCC - thanks for that!

    Shef - good luck with the attempt at moving!

  73. Sheff - sounds lovely! Hope it comes through.

    Montana - hope you are OK, hon. x

  74. Montana - do hope your asthma is better! Sounds like yours is much worse than mine.

    Mind with my heart its just as well mine is comparatively mild.

    Take care.

    BB that EWO doesn't come from S Yorks does she? Sounds just like the absolute Gorgan I had to deal with in Rotherham 15 years ago.

    My daughter's problems were no worse than a dose of 'flu as far as she was concerned. In fact it took till 2 years ago to completely resolve them! Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

  75. Anne

    I think they come out of a big factory like Cybermen... certainly is like trying to talk to one.

    "Enforce...enforce...we have no discretion except when we wish to thwart you!"

  76. Hi deano, yes it's me, semilurking if you will. I usually check a few other sites and come back from time to time.

    Just had Miss Lily spayed on friday so she's moving a bit gingerly. She has diarrhea too. Any advice for that?

    Ms Robinson, was your jaunt enjoyable?

  77. Boudican

    A french folk remedy for diarrhoea is eating rice and carrots - dunno if you could persuade Miss Lily to eat that? Might help.

  78. deano and all--3p4 checked in a week or so ago and said he was offline indefinately. No reason given. Also said he enjoyed this wee site.

  79. BB--Thanks, sounds like it would work, but I phoned the vet and was told to give her Peptobismol tablets twice a day. Who new?

  80. Boudican

    Scrambled egg worked for my beast when she got the runs - usually from delving deep into dead sheep innards.

    God these jackbooting jobsworths - I really don't envy you. Can't you terrify her back with some heavy legalese? There must be something really obscure you could lecture her with until she submits.

  81. The problem is, this is not one of my areas of specialisation at all, and she always turns up with a side-kick so it is a double-fronted attack, as it were. I should stump up for a handbook on education law really but I can't be arsed - it is all so petty.

    Godwinning this I know, but it is true to say that the holocaust was as much the responsibility of the mealy-mouthed, spiteful little appartchiks oiling the wheels as it was the generals.

  82. BB

    mealy-mouthed, spiteful little appartchiks oiling the wheels as it was the generals

    That describes Eichmann. I wonder how many steps it takes from being an EWO jobsworth to him. Avner Less who interviewed him said of him:

    I was especially struck by his complete lack of humour. On the few occasions when his razor thin lips smiled, his eyes remained mirthless; each time the look on his face was sardonic, even aggressive.

    Eichmann himself said:

    I obeyed. Regardless of what I was ordered to do I would have obeyed. I obeyed. I obeyed.

  83. BB, well done to you for fighting the good fight.

    Pour a glass and relax.


  84. good call thauma - just popping out for a bottle of something...

  85. Hurry back, Phil ... *chink* in your direction too!

  86. Just had a flick through, you lot have been busy...

    I couldnt keep tabs on all the rowing and references, lots of graun links etc so got a little lost, but in case Hanks listening:

    I had huge rows with billp, other people told me to stop cos it was boring them. As for moderating - i have never deleted a single one of mine or anyone elses posts here. Go back and read the stuff before you charge in.

  87. Jay

    Message for you on waddya from Jessica relating to this Separated dads need more support

  88. Good holiday Jay? Seems to have relaxed you...

  89. ...and *chink* to thauma. going to retire in front of telly for a while, it's Batman commence, which I recall didn't have much in the way of challenging dialogue or a coplex plot, so I should be able to cope...

  90. Evening all

    @Montana-sorry to hear you,re unwell.Hopefully
    the meds and a bit of TLC will sort you out.
    Take care.

    @BB-thanks for getting back to me on the 'DADS'
    thread on CIF.Equal custody rights for fathers
    is something i feel strongly about.Sadly
    haven,t had time to get 'stuck in'with the
    debate on CIF but will read through the thread

    None of my business but re your jobsworth
    problem have you thought about investing
    in one of those small 'discrete' tape
    recorders that journos use.It would be
    like an insurance policy if things turn
    ugly.A few years ago a mate of mine leant
    me his when a couple of people were trying
    to stitch me up at work.The evidence i,d
    accrued was enough to get a financial
    settlement at a tribunal hearing.And the
    two people guilty of 'playing dirty' were
    sacked soon after.Dunno why but bullies and
    jobsworths are often very good liars so it,s
    best to keep your back covered.Although being
    a QC you probably knew that anyway.Cheers!

  91. hmmm i had to allow four scripts in order to be able to comment at all.

    let's see if i can induce another (unique) dutch hit ..

  92. Hi Sheff, was that because of my rant? I didnt expect them to commission a piece in response, was just making a point really.

    Very nice thanks, Martillo, very relaxing. Coming back to grey london and UT rowing has swiftly put paid to that though ;)

  93. Oh wow deano got it thanks - how did I miss that??? Was looking for a wee counter but still.

    re holocaust, the thing that sticks with me is what some Balkan survivor said in the 90s: when they come for you, your postman will show them the door and the leader will be the man who teaches your children. They won't be monsters. You will know them. They are everyday people.

    Sorry depressing but it stick with me as a horrible truth. If you take a place like Skye, it seems all peaceful yet two eastern European boys were beaten savagely in Portree last year and no one was ever arrested for the crime, despite everyone knowing who did it.

    Sorry even more depressing I know, officialdom is stuffed with people like BB's SS character who feed off human misery.

    Am a cheery swine I know!

  94. Sorry to make up, here's another Sappho poem

    Evening Star,
    Bringing back all that the bright dawn scattered.
    You bring the sheep, bring the goat,
    You bring the child home to its mother

    Not my translation can't mind whose. Funny things about the Greeks, profoundly sexist as they were there was agreement that Sappho was the greatest lyric poet of them all

  95. Evening all.

    sheff & princess c

    Either of you able to come to this tommorrow evening?

  96. Edwin - I fear you are right. At the same time, the people who rally around you in times of trouble are the ones you know, and sometimes the ones you don't know all that well. Nowt so queer as folk.

    Jay - I missed the weekend's shenanigans also having been obsessed by rugby (bloody Scots! all right, they well deserved a win, but not against us, and especially not our final match at Croke Park!).

    Paul - I think it's disgraceful that some mothers completely shut children's fathers out of the kids' lives for no reason except vindictiveness, and that there really is no redress. It's a tough issue to address, because jailing or fining the mothers isn't going to help the kids either. A few cases of having main custody switched to the father, if feasible, seems the right way to go.

  97. Thaum - socts were pretty good i thought, and they had a very unlucky tournament. Bad luck for the Irish but not too bad - it made no difference to table place but would have been nice to finish Croke Park on a win.

    Did you see England? They went mad, they started running actual back moves, like professional rugby players. I couldnt believe my eyes. And the refeering was truly abysmal - not that we deserved better, our play for the 6N in general was so bad we should have been ejected from the tournament for crimes against entertainment, competence and sporting spirit.

  98. Good evening everybody.

    Before he vanishes into the ether, note that Giyus' latest name is 'MrLobby' (which I read first as 'Mr Blobby'!)

    Maybe the lunatics really have taken over the asylum.

    @BB Best of luck with your family.
    @Philippa 'Batman commence' is nowhere near as good as 'Batman: Le Chevalier Noir'!

  99. Non-rugby fans: skip this post.

    Jay - of course I watched France/England, but must admit I was pretty knackered by then and a lot of it swept over me.

    Foden and the winger whose name escapes me (Ashton?) were overdue choices. And yes, England actually played with some flair for once. Shame about the weather: would have been a better match otherwise.

    France deserved the slam, the bastards. They were simply better than everyone else.

    Thought Wales/Italy was an interesting one too: the attempted strangling, the arguing with the ref when being dealt a yellow card.... (Matched later by Johnno arguing with ref - wrong.)

  100. 1st:

    Thanks everyone! I'm feeling much better, though a bit guilty about staying home from work today after having had a full week off. Still, in the ER in the middle of the night and pumped full of meds that made it impossible to even think about sleeping until it was time I should have been getting up for work. And my job entails a lot of walking around & up & down stairs, which would not have helped my breathing any.

    Pretty sure the weather has been the culprit. The seasonal changes always make mine worse, but the severity of our winter seems to have exacerbated things. After a week of temperatures in the teens (17°C on Friday), we woke up to -3° and snow on Saturday. Yesterday, we were back up to 8° and it's 14° now. (Those fluctuations sound so much worse in Fahrenheit!)


    As for the counter, I mostly thought it would be kind of fun. I didn't realise that those casino & chat links were in there. I've edited this bit out of the code:

    [a href="http://www.megachat.us/"]chat[/a] [a href="http://www.mpthrill.com/"]online casino[/a] [a href="http://www.onlinecasinoextra.com/europa-casino-onlinecasinoreview.html"]europa casino[/a]

    Will that stop spammers from invading us? If not, I'll remove the counter. It's not worth clogging this place up with spam.


    Welcome back, MsR, Duke & Jay! Extremely jealous of people who get to go places. Haven't been out of my town for >2 yrs, except to go to the doctor (mine is in the next town west of here).


    Haven't seen the custody article yet, but as a single mum who would have given anything for my son to have been able to have a relationship with his father, nothing winds me up faster than hearing about some spiteful bitch keeping a loving father away from his children. And, although I know that the plural of anecdote is not data, but I've known of far more cases of that than I have of "dead-beat" dads. Most of the dads that I've known who got labelled "dead beats" were men who'd simply been ground down by the constant battle just to try to get to see their children once in awhile.

  101. Thaum--I didn't think we were allowed to skip your posts! (-: Watched much of the 6 Nations, agree that France were pretty much the best side. Happy about Scotland's last performance too.

    Nice tune, takes me back. Looking at the date of that song is another reminder of our fleeting mortality. With that said, off to walk the hound, then for a pint or two.

  102. Ok guys just to put a flag up (covering my back plan b whatevs)

    My parents are conniving to have me sectioned.

    I was going to have a meeting at Oxleas house se london tomorrow am. I was going to walk there. My dad is now going to go too (if I go I will walk anyway) as he has been talking to them independent of me as tho he is part of the treatment team and not part of the problem. I am concerned because I do not trust authority.

    I am dr jonathan chase at 47 Glenlyon rd eltham se9 1al

    If I do not post tomorrow by noon (12am uk time) please make a bit of a fuss, post it on cif.

    It is outrageous.

    I am a 50 year old man being kidnapped by my parents with the connivance of the state.


    (be cool)

  103. Montana,

    Good god, sounds like you spent a horrendous night. Glad you are feeling better.

    I like the counter!

    And now another song inspired by the last: the man in the suit has just bought a new car from the profit he's made on your dreams.

  104. You know I will probably just cancel it, I'm busy and they are being pushy and have already been very unprofessional eg not leaving prescribed drugs cos they got cross.

    And I am tired (could be a bit sick) better be careful.

  105. Oh and Montana do hope you get better soon. The UT is so useful yeah? When I get modded etc and as it is a single thread. Thanks :)

    Hope you sleep well.

  106. pen--Jeezus, that's scary. Hope things work out for you. Are there no personal friends that can help you?

  107. Boudican

    Thaum--I didn't think we were allowed to skip your posts! (-: Watched much of the 6 Nations, agree that France were pretty much the best side. Happy about Scotland's last performance too.

    Don't see why I should be any different from anyone else! Scotland were unlucky in their results, but obviously I would have preferred them to get their result(s) against England or Wales ... or France, but that didn't seem likely! Their match against Wales was one of the most entertaining seen in some time.

  108. Montana

    Glad to hear you're ok-ish.


    Yet on Waddya @ 9.47pm you said:

    "I am a sane, rational human being".

  109. What are you on about MsChin? I am a sane rational human being what is the contradiction?

  110. That my parents think different says nothing does it. Or are you saying they are right?

  111. Don't worry guys, I always have more than one plan. And I do know much better than to rely on you lot for much at all except that kind of ?????

  112. Like I don't know you guys read across the UT/Cif divide duh.

  113. Jo Montana, off to do a bit if testing!

  114. Your grice, i shall be joining you in the Netherlands through a secure tunnel ..

  115. Pen

    I hope you are ok. I really think it is a bad idea to post your name and address on here though, for the whole of cyberspace to see. I would delete it if I were you. There are some very strange people about, and you don't want to become a target of some stalker or other.

    Hugs. x

  116. Pen, it's just hard to tell whether or not this is all part of the grand experiment that you are conducting on us.

    'Night all.

  117. pen

    I'm not saying your parents are right, pen, not at all. You said on CiF that you are ok, but you are posting personal info both on CiF and on here which may not be wise, given what you say upthread here.


    It all sounds very complicated to a technoramus like myself!

  118. I am not asking advice. I do know what I am doing. It is daft to believe that such info is not already available to any who really want it. Your ideas of security are so naive.

    Experiment yes and no, all action is experimental even yours.

    Become a target of stalkers, I porobaby already am IRL duh. I have said as much.

    You guys have such difficulty believing anyone can actually be honest and on the level becasue you yourselves are not really so.

  119. Pen, am guessing that for you to give your full name & address that this is deadly serious - I hope whatever happens tomorrow doesn't happen against your will. xRx

  120. DUH

    I posted my name on CIf months back when I was sectioned. IT IS ALREADY THERE.


  121. Thanks Shaz, it is but probably not, it is a precaution. I was sectioned last year but I SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN.

    My parents are old GPS retired my sister is active, family dynamics going back a long time (I wont bore you sigh).

  122. You see my computer skills are actually quite pathetic btu I know lots of others are not. Why be scared like that anyway?

    I seek safety in being known it is being unknown that allows you to be deleted isnt it you dummies

  123. Pen, not sure how much help I could be, but I'll look out for you tomorrow and then go about finding out how to contact you, if needs be. I'll try my best, promise.

  124. Heard of the holocaust ????

    Tried to hide it didn't they.

    There is safety in being known by all I seek an'erdos' n of 1

    You are so slow.

    I am sane kind thoughtful why should I fear others knowingme?



  125. HeyHabib I knew I could count on you. Thanks mate, play us a tune.

  126. pen

    Look, after you said in various posts on Waddya what was happening to you last year, some of the people here sent you messages there when you weren't able to post, to say that you were still in their thoughts. Just accept kindness and consideration for what it is, mate.

  127. Glad Montana is well, hope you are ok tmra Pen, will look for your posts when I get back frm work. Good luck for the flat Sheff, u deserve it. Good luck in new sit Wybbourne, Irn Bru & Tunnocks parcels can be arranged!

    The counter thing has only worked once out of the 6 times I've looked in tonight, the rest of the time it says, "your computer will be very slow, do you want to cancel his script?"

  128. I went onto UT (text only) through a server with an Amsterdam IP, but the counter ain't counting text only readers and won't display the red white and blue flag.

    meanwhile i had a look at 99counters terms and conditions:

    Terms of Use
    Why is the service free?

    The service is free to use if our simple terms are fulfilled.
    In the code that you insert on your homepage there is a link back to 99counters.com.
    And because of this link some users on your homepage visits 99counters.com and hereby we get some traffic to our sponsors.
    In this way we can pay our server and bandwidth bills every month, so the service can remain free to use.

    Terms & Conditions

    1. You are not allowed to modify the code. Don't remove our text ad as this is what keeps this service alive.
    2. If the code is placed in some kind of frames on your page be sure the link to 99counters.com works. If 99counters.com is not 100% visible when the link is pushed your have violated our terms.
    3. Remember to see if the link back to 99counters.com works.

    If the above simple terms are not fulfilled we can't maintain a free service to our users.
    So in the case that our automatic crawling system sees that you don't link back to use, some adds or popup could appear on your homepage. We will from time to time both automatically and manually check your homepage and see if your code is intact. And if this is not the case ads or popups could appear. Please contact us if you get some ads or popups from us and your code is intact. Then we will manually look at your homepage and stop the ads.

    well OK, they don't mention the casinos and the chat, so i think it's cool that Montana has removed those links, even though strictly speaking that violates the bit about not altering the script.

    Well done Montana!

    [and for the techies]

    i am using ubuntu 9.10 behind quite a good firewall and flash keeps popping this up:

    A script in this movie is causing Adobe Flash Player 10 to run slowly. If it continues to run, your computer may become unresponsive. Do you want to abort the script?

    i said no a couple of times, but then couldn't post so now the script is stopped while i post. will turn it on again in a mo.

  129. "A script in this movie is causing Flash 10 to run slowly, if you continue your computer may become unresponsive. Do you wish to abort the script?" I've seen enough movies like that! NN all. x

  130. I do MsChin but sentiments are ofetn just phatic expressions. I am a psychologist and that means I have to have a very realistic appreciation of all that people do. It is a difficult position and would be easy to fall into a
    "sciencism" yeah.

    I do believe you tho that your concern is sincere. You see I do trust people.

    But I am in the real world. I am already so well known. I get shouted at by people every time I go out the house. Yes?

    I am not kidding. It is nice in one way, many admire me that is why they stalk me nicely. But it is still stalking and does include a threat element.

    The guy who approached me for sex was a 'vagrant' the local homeless overlap with the local mad I was locally sectioned I have blown my local cover whatever it happened IRL not here

  131. And if you had not noticed I have been revealing my name more and more on cif and here for a while the address is just a bit more info and readily available with a little data trawling.

    Medve could have done yeah?

  132. I am off to bed now.

    My concern for you is sincered, Pen. I hope you are not sectioned against your will tomorrow.

    Best of luck x

  133. pen:

    Medve could have done yeah?

    I am on record on these pages as keen on protecting the privacy of Untrustees. When we were spammed by by chinese porn i led calls to remove it and warned all esteemed UTters (which includes you pen) not to follow those links.

    So, even if i could, or would have the time, why should i?

    I administer our family firewall here at medveland headquarters, which means i could easily snoop on all and any traffic of children and partner, which i categorically do NOT.

  134. medve

    Following that techno jargon's just caused a neural burnout in what's left of my brain!

    A quick rant before bedtime. Another crap day at work to look forward to tomorrow, when I really should be more grateful that I still have a job to get up for (at least for a while). One of my offspring says that 8 out of 10 of their mates are now unemployed, and 1 of the 2 in work is to be laid off at the end of this month. These people have enough qualifications to wallpaper my front room and have never had to sign on before. Yet our politicians don't give a shit while ever they have their noses in the trough.

    I think I will go and shout at Paul Scriven (currently Leader of Sheffield Council) and the other wannabes at the What about Women hustings in Sheffield tomorrow. Won't change a thing, I know, but it's the best chance I'll get to be nasty to a politician or 4 this week.

    Rant over, so thank you & goodnight!

  135. Medve don't get shirty, my point is merely that you have the ability (obviously not to make the easy positive inference tho)

    I am not accusing you lot of anything other than basic stupidity haha what do you expect.

  136. pen: thanks. I don't know about the ability, but i really am keen on privacy -- for all of us.

  137. You know I really am nicer, prettier, wiser, sadder and poorer and more oppressed than any of you. It is no surprise that when I live somewhere for a while I get noticed. I am pointing out that I am known in the real world duh.

    And also I too have some principles and cannot name others can I? Only by inference duh. Do you never read between the lines? But that is where more of the meaning lies.

    But it is cool, HeyHabib, TXuss are enough and in any case I always think of the lurkers.

  138. That's cool Medve, yeah, I'm very easy going. I don't care what people do as they are nice : )

  139. PS pen

    In plain language, I wasn't thinking only of security re: the personal info, but also that those whom you don't trust right now might use the posting of such info by you as justification for their intended action. Just a thought.

  140. That's why the kids like me and I am funny. I have time and I dont care, I mock authority whenever and however I can. I think they bet on me. Hahaha

  141. MsChin, I have so many thoughts I have covered so many scenarios I am a risk analyst a games theorist a psychologist.

  142. MsChin it is a mistake in such situations to believe that if you do the right thing you will be ok. Do yoyu know your holocaust history obviously not.

    They want to do this and seek an excuse, another would be found. Please no more such un-needed faux advice.

    Night night guys, will try to post tomorrow. I won't panic, try not to yourselves. duh

  143. And goodnight (again) from me.

  144. Goodnight MsChin.

    pen: sometimes we have to do what we think is right even if it might cost us dearly.

  145. Take it easy pen. Give me a shout if you get really fucked off

  146. Nite Montana, hope things are better for you too.

  147. This also good pen. Have a good night.