19 March 2010


The Mongol Yuan Dynasty defeated the Song Dynasty at the Battle of Yamen,  bringing and end to the Song Dynasty.  Sydney Harbour Bridge was opened in 1932.  India and Bangladesh signed a friendship treaty in 1972.

Born today:  Georges de la Tour (1593-1652), Tobias Smollett (1721-1771), David Livingstone (1813-1873), Richard Burton (1821-1890), Wyatt Earp (1848-1929), Patrick McGoohan (1928-2009), Ursula Andress (1936), Glenn Close (1947).

Today is the day that the swallows traditionally return to the mission at San Juan Capistrano, California.

But the only thing that really matters is that the very lovely and talented Mr. Terry Hall was born in Coventry on this day in 1959. *Sigh*  Happy birthday, Tel.  (I need to go lie down now...)


  1. Why do I get the feeling that Montana's main motive in maintaining the UT is to take advantage of terry-related opportunities like this?

    disturbed sleep. strong coffee. hmmmmm...

  2. MW- I never at any point said that I agreed with Bru about either her getting on one about MF, or her posts to you subsequently. As far as what happened with MF. I missed it coz it was after I had stopped being a regular here and I found out about it after it had kicked off. I had left already, remember,over the arguments about if it was ok to let rip at graun staff. As far as Bru's post about you goes,I came here and publicly stated that I didn't agree with what she'd done. What I did say was that I could see what had driven her to behave badly. Most people disagree with me on that... but I'm not going to go over and over it again and again. I've said my piece many times in the past about what I see as being obnoxious to others online.
    As for me being talked about here. At least admit it's not my persecution complex! But I don't really care about it... and there's nothing I can do about it. I do find it irritating how I'm referred to at times and one comment did upset me... but most of the time I'm not really that bothered... I do though, find it odd that atomboy is reposting my cif comments here... because 1: Most people will have already seen them and 2: He'd said that he was going to skip my posts after I'd pulled him up last time for his 'too stupid' post on here. But if he really finds presenting / analysing my posts in any way cathartic.. Let him have his fun!
    And you're so right scherf I really have nothing in my life but cif... It must be true if you said so!
    Anyroad... carry on... as you were!

  3. Bitey (from yesterday)

    Sorry, you've been evicted, and we've sub-let your spot under the bridge, move along please....

  4. Whoa, I go to sleep one evening, and the next day, the UT are Teh Evilz. Cool, do we all get goatees and mechanical right hands now?

    Pen, hope you had/have as good a sleep as possible.

  5. Looking for JayReilly!


    MozP here. Seaton has finally come back to the 4th Birthday thread after his challenge to me regarding mods political bias. He's looking for more info about your original post - do you have any more info you can put up?

    He's floundering, badly. It looks to me like he went for a game of 'call my bluff' with me and it's caught him on the hop that I responded. He obviously doesn't read the Waddya threads, else he'd have seen it coming.

    He seems to be preparing his excuses already, but has virtually admitted that the mods are biased, though I'm willing to bet he doesn't realise what he has written.

    Anyways, can you help?

  6. Philippa, to answer your question, no, the NYT article does not fail to distinguish between feeling sad and being depressed in the clinical sense, but that verse struck me as appropriate nonetheless...

    BTW the article mistakenly attributes that line about a writer being someone for whom writing is a problem to Roland Barthes. Fail. It was Thomas Mann.

  7. Energetic postings on Waddya yesterday evening - not that it's any of my business but I hope Offski gets his apology.Have you noticed the poll set up by Pollyana?
    Jonvenablesfelttips posts have been deleted which is a shame they were entertaining but I'm guessing it's because of his name?

  8. Cordelia - either that or they've tracked the IP as being the same as a previous bannee, and just deleted him...

    some of the suggestions were certainly worthy of debate. crumpled foil, for example...

  9. & mordant satire...

    Aye Cordy, I thought the name was an 'early bath' guarantee.

    Go MozP! ; )

  10. Elementary, Im fine thanks. I did not sleep but I am used to it. It's cool.

    I have kind of 'made up' but it is not so simple.

    I appreciate the concern.

    Thanks Bitterweed I hope (and am confident) that I do not need your offer but it is always good to have allies eh?

    Oh and Dot are you such a philosopher of science taht you are ceratin you know the 'right' definition of it? Why don't you put your money where your mouth is and define succinctly?

    You guys (the UT) do mob, I was mobbed. But I exppected it and was forewarned and five armed. And I do forgive you all.

    Do you see why all can hate me at times?

    Would say more did but misposted and can't be bothered to redo it right now.

    I do appreciate that I can post here when `I cannot on Cif but Cif is a bigger pond.

  11. Crumpled foil may be used as a 'gritty' in the construction of a chillum.

  12. Hi am fine.

    Thanks Elementary, I appreciate the thought.

    It 's mostly all cool, am used to my family (but also do not want to over minimize)

  13. Sorry for last re post (have just have guys turn up to insulate loft) etc.


  14. pen sympathies for your domestic situation and all but as I said yesterday:

    "I'm sorry pen but I'm finding it hard to work out whether you're writing conversation thinly disguised as insults or insults thinly disguised as conversation, and it's putting me off."

    I've always tried my best to be civil and until I work out/you help me work out the answer to the above I give up.

  15. It's driving me nuts that I cannot get my Google account to log me in here as Cordelia - I have two Google accounts one as Christina and when I started posting here I set up a second one but cannot stop it defaulting to Christina rather than Google. Any suggestions?

  16. Sorry Cord/ina, I'm not sure.

    I think it's one of the down sides that comes with Google trying to be all helpful and intuitive, I guess.

    You may have to close all windows, log off, and then re-sign in, then sign out, sign in with the right account, and then open all the windows/pages again.

    (if indeed, you can be bothered...)

    On the plus side, Gmail now does that thing where it reads your e-mails, and then tells you if you've forgot to add an attachment you promised someone you would....

  17. maybe log out of that email address not only on blogger but also in your normal email window? (am on a yahoo address, so not sure if they all do it differently - when I tried logging on to the photo gallery, i had to log out of my email as well to be able to use the other login...)

  18. That sounds right, I find when I'm logged in here I can check my googlemail without logging on. Probably the reverse is true and they assume you want to use the account that goes with the e-mail you're logged on to...........

  19. Bitey came back onto yesterday's thread this morning (yawn). But I've posted a response to him there anyway.

  20. Just briefly and to clarify

    I posted about my 'domestic' difficulties in order to get it on record not to elicit sympathy.

    Dot you are all talk (well not that much talk in fact) and no trousers.

    Thanks guys

  21. Thanks for the suggestions...in my email I said defaulting to Christina rather than Google...what I meant to say was defaulting to Christina rather than Cordelia, you all seem to understand what I was saying though....!

    Cord/ina - love it

    Will try again later off to work now!

  22. @Cordelia - yes, Google has a universal login. If you log into GMail, that carries across to Blogger as long as you stay logged in. However, you can log out of either at any time and log back in as somebody else; I did this recently when I needed, for one reason or another. to use a false ID on another site. That new login also carries across, though, so you can't have one Google ID active in GMail and a different one active in Blogger at the same time.

    Hope that makes sense.

  23. pen,

    Thank you, clarified: insults thinly disguised as conversation! Can I suggest that you use the carrot method rather than the stick, if all you're going to do is beat me about the head with how I'm wrong instead of giving me straight answers then I do give up!


    You may be able to log in twice by having different browsers: my housemate and I can both be logged into our own Facebooks on her computer if she uses Explorer and I use Firefox (different windows of the same browser don't work though).

  24. @Dot

    Good point. That would work.

  25. @Cordina (props James ; ) ) I have two g-mail acc.s and get a similar prob, what I've found is, say you are logged in as Christina, log out. Click log in. It will prompt you to log in as Christina. Click log in, without your pass word, it will then allow you to change the log in. On my Mac via Safari clicking 'Log in with different acc.' does not work! Trial and error led me to the blank password method..

  26. If ever I have a daughter, I will strongly lobby to have her named Cordina. It has a certain grace to it, I think.

  27. I can't do 'mordant satire', but I can do morbidly obese satire.

  28. Hi

    Crumpled fall triggers many thoughts.

  29. @turminder

    RE pre-paid/token meter utilities...

    (yeah, I know, I'm still peeking..)

    Be really careful with them bad boys.

    I had a pre-paid meter in a rented house a while back (it was there when I moved in), and went about buying my tokens and that, even though it was a bit annoying...

    Then, when I moved out, I got me a bill for £300, because they'd been 'charging me the wrong amount'.

    'What the fuck?' was my, somewhat obvious reply, 'surely a tenners worth of electricity is a tenners worth of electricity?'

    Apparently not!!

    I went to ofwatch, or whatever the utilities thing is called, and after a while, they said that it was morally wrong, but legally not so much, so I had to pay it....

  30. Crumpled fall? freudian mayhap .

    Crumpled foil.

  31. Eddie - I can't do mordant satire, but I'll do gesso sarcasm if that comes up.

    (art joke)

    anyone seen stoaty recently? have a paint-based question...

  32. @Philippa

    (*whispering) I gone and done a fing on my blog what's got a (tenuous) 'Kennedyness' to it if (*straining to hide desperation) you fancy being the first ever person to read it!!

    (how's that Beck song go again...)

  33. James

    there is an assumption the law and legal have something to do with morality. This has never been so but it is a fiction we are supposed to maintain.

    the utilities companies are among the biggests crooks on the planet.

    Basic essentials should be taken out of the main economic models - the command economy reponds to the ability to pay- not to need. Can't afford can't command. Just do without.

  34. Ooh, will potter.

    (you know anything about paint?)

  35. Yes, whatever happened to everyone's favourite mustelid?

  36. What's your paint q Philippa? I know a bit about gloss & emulsion. And a bit less about acrylic and water colour...

  37. Cheers James, I'll be spending this summer payin off the winters electric..

  38. @Leni

    Yeah, the whole thing was a farce, and the 'regulatory body'thing highlighted it even more.

    As I understand it, they're s'posed to watch over that particular area, and make recommendations, rules and that, but in the end, they can't do anything about the stuff they see as 'morally wrong' anyways, so what's the point.

    They pretty much said the same thing to me that you just said - 'utility companies are the biggest crooks, and there aint much we can do about it....', with a 'but we're trying' thrown on the end.

    I also think the recent influx of so many companies has been bad too - now, if you complain, they don't give a shit, cause they assume you'll probably go to another provider in a few months anyway....

  39. oil paint, turminder - so if anyone has any ideas, the problem is that i used to get great 'dusty misty' effects with my old paints, either because they were different quality or just had dried out a bit - the stuff I get now is too 'loose' so you can only blend it when it's thinly applied - but if it's thinly applied it looks weak and watery.

    tried looking for additives in the art shop, they had loads for acrylic but nothing for oils.

    ended up buying mosaic grouting powder, which I plan to try mixing in. this may not end well.

  40. @Philippa

    Paint - not so much. Probably best to ask Turminder.


    No problem. It's definitely worth bearing in mind though. It happened to a friend of mine recently too...
    (I was also doubly fuck-oed cause my Landlord decided he was having my deposit too, so I was fighting on two fronts, in a very David v Goliath kind of way...)

  41. Don't have much exp with oils, I used to paint miniatures. Try putting the paint out on a pallete and leaving over night or for a few days, covered with a rag, or just open, that's all I can think of..

    Good piece James, why not copy it to UT2, get the log in from Montana, then we can comment on it...?

  42. Turminder and Philippa

    Thank you both.


    (I'm not sure how the UT2 thing works, but I don't suppose me having a crisis is that interesting to anyone else really....)

  43. No Dude, put it up there, or open your own blog to comment. I suspect you are very much not alone.

  44. @Dotterel


    You learn something new every day. Thank you!

  45. Dott - Stoaty seems to have taken to hanging around specilaist painting blogs last I saw.(He has developed a fan base there )

    And last I knew he had taken to commenting on the Torygraph.(Don't know if it was just temprary cos I don't read that rag)

    Google colinthestoat and follow the links if you want him - he removed his paintalongwithstoat blog - but I don't know why.

  46. @Turminder

    I'm game if Montana is.

    Also, I think I just opened mine up for comments. I didn't even know it wasn't (maybe *cough* that's why *ahem* nobody had commented yet.*clutching at straws...)

  47. Fucking shite day at work. TGIFF. Let the festivities commence.

  48. Deano,

    'tis a shame, old Musty gave good banter!

  49. Dott - yea I always enjoyed his banter, who knows perhaps he'll return one day.

  50. I have been left alone and to my own devices for the weekend.

    This normally involves walking from room to room, staring out the windows, opening the fridge, sighing, then closing it again, not being able to work out how to use the television, eating at peculiar times, sleeping at odd times, reading everything in the papers, including the obituaries and court circulars, making strange spontaneous noises out loud as if I am practicing my Tourettes repertoire and smearing bits of information about my life over the internets.

  51. @AB, and you're differing from the rest of us how, exactly? ; )

    {Looks out window, goes 'Poot'}

    BTW, good docco on Tourettes on iplayer, sad, but you can't help laughing at some bits..

  52. cheers turminder, am beginning to think that previous success was down to having inherited elderly paint in small tubes. leaving it out just means the edges turn into plastic and the inside stays as oily as ever. will try the grout. it doesn't say hazchem on it, so i'm not expecting to blow up...

  53. [famous last words]

    [will is in chest of drawers]

  54. I commented! you have to click on the commenty link to show them. (so did turminder)

  55. I do the 'visit fridge, sigh, close door, then go back in a few minutes to see if anything's appeared, sigh (louder), close door' dance quite frequently too.

    I've recently thrown a few cupboards into the routine too, in the interests of variety and that....

  56. Wow - hadn't noticed that.
    It's positively buzzing now..

    Thanks guys.

    Will go respond to the comments (*grinning)

  57. @Philippa, try putting the paint on blotting paper, or mdf, it might absorb some of the oil, a spirit soaked rag cover should prevent the plastic coat forming. Try talc, or other stuff, polyfilla mebee?

    Looking forward to observing the Friday night antics as I'm still 10 days away from a swally!

  58. Where's your blog James?

  59. ah, turminder, that's a cunning idea...

    think the grout is a bit like talc / polyfilla, so maybe that will work. if not, will just have to grout something. those ants in the kitchen better look to their chances.

  60. @Dotteral

    I think if you click on my icon whasit, it should go to my profile (the blog's JD Rowland!)

  61. right - pub. may be back (and typing erratically) later. you all have fun, chickens.

  62. Hello folks.

    Well, I have 3 days away from t'internet and it all happens, apparently.

  63. Thinking about it, grout and pollyfilla will both seriously reduce the drying time and both will 'go-off', i.e set, so perhaps talc or some thing more neutral is better.. track stoaty down when ur back frm the boozer..

  64. Hello MsChin

    Yep - all happening. The social whirl of Cif - blackballing, backstabbing , dishonest assessment of others and gossip. Been great.

    It is so much more exciting than my real life !

    Seriously - i have found it very illuminating. Social relations on line are something I need to do a rethink on. The think which most interests me is this.

    Real life nasties are soon exposed for what they truly are - cybernasties can hide behind a persona which may or may not reflect the truth. Attitudes can be struck, social 'standing' affirmed etc - no supporting evidence. The funniest (saddest?) one are those whose use of language and actual knowledge suggest they are rather more ordinary than they would have you suppose.

    I/m afraid I am just as ordinary as I appear to be - struggling on. Perhaps I should create another fictional and more exotic me ?

    Matt Seaton is beneath contempt. I have known this since the TehranKid episode.

  65. @Cordelia:

    If you go to your Blogger profile (click on your own user name at the top of your comment), there should be an "Edit Profile" option. On the page that that takes you to, down about 2/3 of the way, there should be a section called "Identity". One of the boxes there is "Display name". If you just put "Cordelia" in that box and save the changes, next time you log in -- even on your "Christina" g-mail account, it should say "Cordelia" above your comments here. That should save you from having to mess around with all the logging in and out nonsense.

    That page is also where you can upload a picture for an avatar, to replace the Blogger logo by your comments, if you want to.


    My love (lust?) for Terry isn't my main motive for maintaining this place -- it's my raison d'être! Such a way with words and so shagalicious -- what's not to love?


    I can empathise. Every time my son goes to TX with his grandparents, I fantasise that I'm going to get all sorts of work done, but once he's actually gone, the place feels so empty without him that I get this weird inertia and don't get a fraction of the work I wanted to do done.

  66. If there is anyone who still has posting privileges on the other place, it might be an idea to note that JayReilly is away for a week or so on this thread.

    Seaton has already said that there seems to be a problem with moderation, but has then squeezed it back into the box by unilaterally proclaiming that it could only have happened once as a weird, unpredictable and unique mutation and aberration of the otherwise splendid and immaculate perfection of CiF.

    He seems to be asking JayReilly to produce the evidence which CiF has destroyed, so anyone can see that this is going to be a free, open, fair and scrupulous investigation.


    I am aware that this may just look like just so much obfuscation and flannelling on my part. But I'm not trying to duck the issue or be defensive. If you or JR will send me the link I need so I can locate that specific thread and deletion, I will follow through. And I don't rule out the possibility that our modding was trigger-happy on this occasion. I would never say it never happens, so if I'm directed to a specific instance where we got it wrong, then I'll hold up my hand and admit it.

    But please understand that one such admission would not amount to a concession that the entire system is biased, arbitrary and effectively broken. That's not where we're headed with this, so please don't imagine otherwise.

  67. And using the word inertia has made me think of this and that's good enough reason for me to link to it here.

  68. Oh, Texas.. He-he Montana I thought; 'Every time my son goes to TX with his grandparents,' ...you, your offspring and grandparents are all welcome, but you've never visited!

    @AB "send me the link I need so I can locate that specific thread and deletion, I will follow through." Do it, good to hear he admits he shits himself... : )

  69. MozP:

    As Atomboy says above, Jay is away. I'll trawl through his comments, 'cos I think I'll be able to figure out which thread it was. Can you e-mail me at: thewildhack AT gmail DOT com so that I can contact you when/if I've figured it out?

  70. Not that any of you care but I am still deep in premod.

    Not I guess because I post 'fuck' but because I post something like I worked at Surrey university and GB Breakwell was my HoD so sue me.

    Don't you dimwits get it? Libel laws????????? In the UK???????????

    Duh and you all go on and on about how you are so right on and modding blah blah blah.

  71. @pen

    I care mate.

    I don't know the specifics of your case though, which is why I haven't commented on it before.

    Did you just say something derogatory about this HoD, as in 'she's not that good, because, in my opinion...' or did you say something a bit more 'close to the bone'..?

  72. 'she's' should have been 'they're not that good'

    Probably freudian...

  73. pen, actually we do care. But it's not a good idea to post your personal details on an international website. You've done it before, Jonathan, and they deleted you then as well. Forget Cif, perhaps you should stick to posting here - it's a safer and much more sympathetic space. (In spite of your apparent hostility to practically everyone here who tries to engage with you.) You get a lot of tolerance and understanding here - think about using that instead of abusing it.

    Love? Empathy? Support? Duh! whatevs. :0)

  74. Thanks for the bloody heart-warmingly lovely photo of Terry Hall ;-) stopped my fury from CiF dead in it's tracks.... the hatchet-job the mods and Seaton have been doing on the Pollard thread in the last 3 hours..... grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

    La Riot

  75. I just noticed that The Guardian has a thread to entice lurkers into becoming posters, or something.

    Now, if I was a cynical sort of chap, I'd probably conclude that this was some sort of ploy to appease advertisers and/or compensate for the posters that have recently told them to 'go f@ck themselves'....

    But, luckily, I'm not a cynical sort of chap...

  76. Seaton and his band of brothers on the mod team have performed the most spectacular sleight of hand on the Pollard thread I have yet to witness.... an absolute disgrace. I walked away from the thread 2.5 hours ago - took a peek 10 minutes ago and although I was the last poster (it clearly said "comments for this entry are closed") the whole fucking thing had been re-arranged!!!! It gives the impression that I posted last at around 2.20 this afternoon, but in reality, I posted at around 5.30. It was closed and mine and many other comments disappeared completely into the ether. The 'time posted' indicator is a lie too.

  77. Ms Wildhack.... I've bumped into Mr Terry Hall a couple of times... my brain and heart went right back to The fabulous, irrrrrepressible Specials in 1981 and I was a gibbering wreck (inside) but managed to say "hiya" with big smile ;-) love him to bits.

  78. @pen

    We haven,t 'met' as such but don,t let the
    pre- mod situation get you down.I was in pre-mod for a while for having an OTT rant at another poster.

    With hindsight the pre-mod was justified so i
    accepted it ,e-mailed the mods and told them
    it wouldn,t happen again.It took a few e-mails
    but after a few days i was 'released'.At the end of the day you need to keep things in proportion.You,re not being banned from Cif simply pre-modded which is a temporary measure.And from some of the posts you have left on UT you,ve clearly got enough going on in your life without worrying about Cif.Plus
    as others have said you,ve still got UT an outlet .

    Take it easy and look after yourself!

  79. pen -

    "Not that any of you care but I am still deep in premod"

    They've done it too me twice and I care about anyone with a decent soul who this happens to. I can assure you, it's nowt to do with the word 'fuck' - hell I use it all the time. Had a very rough time last year being outed by the Harry's Place brigade and the ridiculous CiFWatch - but not banned yet... I think it's only a matter of time though... but according to the loonies on CiF Watch - La Ritournelle, Hermine and Berchman's are now 'editing CiF' - as if!

  80. La Rit -- well now I'm truly jealous. I'm not sure I could manage anything but a lust-filled moan if I ran into him. He's just that beautiful. They're doing two shows in NY and two in CA next month. Nothing in the middle of the country. Irritating in the extreme.

  81. @Pen:

    I'm with scherfig, here. All those months when we didn't hear from you, I was really quite worried about you. It actually caused me a great deal of anguish and frustration to think that you were in need of help and there was nothing I could do to help you.

    But since your return, you've been insulting and condescending, while still wanting/expecting us to care about you. You also frequently speak as though you're playing head games with us as some sort of experiment. Well, I don't know about anyone else, but that just makes me want to ignore you altogether. I'm not a lab rat and don't appreciate being treated as one.

    You are, of course, welcome to continue to comment here and I will continue to care about you as I care about any fellow human being, but unless you want people to either ignore you or become openly hostile to you, you might want to stop insulting and playing games with us.

  82. Leni

    I take your point about cybernasties, but real life nasties can be charming and persuasive and not so easily spotted - think paedophiles, violent partners etc, where skilled manipulation is required to be 'successful' at victimisation. I don't think I expressed that very well, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm trying to say (somewhat tired tonight). Agree with you though, need to rethink on-line social interaction. I'm pretty ordinary too, and wouldn't know how to maintain a facade/persona, I couldn't keep up the pretence even if I had the imagination to dream something up in the first place!


    Given Jay's prolific posting history, good luck with the trawl!


    Don't be daft - you know that people do care! I've never been in pre-mod although I have had a couple of posts vaporised (as opposed to deleted), so have no personal axe to grind, but the inconsistent modding on CiF even amazes me. Something always seems to kick off around this time of year. Am I mistaken in thinking there's a pattern to these mass bannings / deletions / pre-mod naughty step?

    And hello to James.

  83. La Rit

    Really? I have noticed that posts are being 'rearranged' into a different order on some threads lately, but it hadn't occurred to me that the times might be altered too. I've had posts vaporised too, usually where I've been responding to another post upthread, which I find immensely irritating as I'd rather stand as a deleted post than not have a record of the post at all.


    You're well & truly smitten, aren't you!

  84. Montana:

    Ah, didn't mean to make you jealous :-( he's a very self-effacing guy.... seeing him on the street on the pure off-chance a couple of times near to where I used to work, just brought all those 14 year old days of sneaking into clubs to see bands I loved, back to life! We have a great place 5 mins walk from here and all the super stars play - last week it was the Furious Five - missed it 'cos I did'nae have a penny to my name to go. Saw Jah Wobble last year... had a chat .... it was hilarious, I felt I had to call him 'Mr Wobble' am off out now, but will be back. Next time you're around these parts, drop me a line - we can go out!

  85. @MsChin

    Hello to you too!! (*waving)

  86. One last ting... my lovely cat Miss Filay (black and white and a bit of a chatty porker) says.... mmmmeeeeeeeaaaawwuuuuuh.... which roughly translates as "have a furry, fun weekend"

    La Rioter

  87. Gordon Bennett - there's so much stuff to read from the last few days, I could do with a UT 'search' facility and a speed reading class.



  88. Any one else notice that UT is getting more comment than Waddya? Today and yesterday...

  89. Err, ok not yesterday. But still interesting...

  90. Hang on, turminder - I haven't read yesterday's Waddya yet & can't keep up ..

  91. And since yesterday's (and the day before's) Waddya has vanished, looks like I won't be catching up after all. Meh.

  92. @MsChin:

    Yes. I'm smitten. Semi-obsessed, really. I've not met the man, but seeing interviews of him -- as La Rit says, he comes across as quite self-effacing. And he has a wicked sense of humour. One of those people who can be absolutely dead-pan about things so that you're never totally sure whether he's serious or taking the piss.

    As for yesterday's Waddaya -- go to my Cif profile & click on one of my comments from it -- that will take you to the whole thread.

  93. LaRit, Cif premod should be the least of pen's problems. I know you don't know the backstory here but making it about your own Cif premod, Seaton's duplicity,your inevitable banning from Cif and how you were treated by Harry's Place and CifWatch and so on makes me think narcissism rather than empathy.

    It's interesting how many people come here who have problems with Cif (and other sites). They complain about moderating and censorship and stuff. So they come here briefly where there is no deletion, censorship, or moderation. And they bitch about other places. And then when they sort out their own little problems they scuttle back to Cif or whatever. Not really in it for the long haul. AllyF and LordSummerIsle spring readily to mind here. Now that Ally's got his big C back, he's 'not popped in' since he reappeared a month ago after a very lengthy absence to whinge about it. And LordS will be unbanned in a few days, so I doubt we'll see much of him either. Are you one of those types, LaRit?

    Now, don't get me wrong here. This is an open blog. Everyone is welcome, nobody is excluded or censored. However it would be nice if people felt the need or desire to contribute rather than just use the place very ocasionally for their own purposes. It would be nice if they looked at the blog and said 'that could be interesting, I'll give that a go'.

    Some people find this blog a bit accidentally, and in spite of reservations, decide to try it out. Most recently perhaps Christine/Cordelia or James, but ever since we started a year ago there have been many others, and many have stayed. And in spite of our occasional bust-ups and blood-baths we are probably more of a loyal (albeit very diverse) community than most other blogs.

    So, any lurkers out there are welcome to engage and will be warmly greeted, but if you're a troll or if it's just that you're temporarily a bit out of sorts with your usual pub, well, perhaps not so much. And if this sounds a bit like Cif's thread today which practically begs non-posters to start commenting on Cif, well it's not. We don't make any money out of it. It's purely for our own amusement. But we regulars care about it a lot more than some people appera to care about a mainstream corporate hypocritical revenue-hungry institution like Cif. And I suppose that's a matter of personal judgment and preference.

    Anyway, it's jukebox time, so here's a song. Geno

  94. Damn
    Here it is again


  95. Evenin' all.

    Great kick-off to the musical night, Scherfig!

    Pen, I love your words because they are open to interpretation in so many ways, as I believe you are. Scherfig, however, is right.

    When one of your heroes says he wants to go and join "a bigger club", it does make you feel a bit let down. Still, it's your career that should be important to you, I guess.

    Really sorry to read about your mis-hap the other night, hope all is on the way to resolution. Good luck and I'll never boo you, always applaud, when you come back to our home ground.

  96. James wrote a decent piece about The Guardian on his blog and touched on the idea that he felt let down by a publication which had a resonance in his life and an expectation in his mind in terms of what its standpoint might be, reflected in its editorial line.

    Perhaps part of the problem is that all news media now simply rehash, resuscitate and resurrect stories from the international wire services and are left with various grades of comment and opinion to fill the gaps in the vast deluge of news which is needed to satisfy the insatiable appetite of the public.

    The Guardian has become the Tesco, the Asbo of news, peddling shrink-wrapped packages of clap-trap which are called ham and beef because they contain the connective tissue, the ears and eyes and spleen and hooves and skin of pigs and cattle and, given enough colouring and artificial additives, can be made to look like what people are imagining they are buying.

    It is a con which depends upon volume of sales and the consumer turning a blind eye and accepting that they are not getting the real deal, but they are getting something which gives them the impression of being full.

    For those who like their ham and beef squeezed and squirted through an extrusion machine into cartoon animal joint shapes, it works.

    For those who think any provocation to chatter and twinkle and make idiots of themselves is better than being silent or alone, it works.

    For anyone else, The Guardian and CiF will forever be failures and intellectual affronts.

    There will be no coming back from this one.

    CiF is on the giddy helter-skelter to the bottom and there are plenty of passengers who cannot get off, so there will be plenty of wreckage to witness.

    CiF can never quite decide whether to idolise or denigrate the Murdoch way of corrupting and prostituting the media.

    Under the wobbly hand and empty head of Matt Seaton, though, it seems as if it is setting its course.

    For those who thought The Guardian had a heritage and proud tradition, watch and weep as the idiots above and below the line eviscerate it and suck it dry and leave the bones out to be bleached.

  97. scherfig

    I can,t speak for La Rit but when you join
    anything new it can take a while to find your
    feet.Sometimes i,ve logged onto UT and people
    who know each other are involved in a
    conversation and i haven,t wanted to butt in
    and intrude so i,ve left it.It,s no problem
    to me and i certainly don,t take it as
    rejection.Also with my work schedule as it
    is everyone seems to have gone to bed when i
    often logged on.And my therapist(:.)) tells
    me i shouldn,t take that as a rejection
    either.I do want to feel free to post on both
    CIF and UT and provided i don,t play them off
    against each other i don,t see it as being
    a problem.Obviously if it is then at least
    let me know so i know where i stand.

  98. @scherfig

    For what it's worth, I was a lurker for a bit, and I sort of first noticed the UT quite a while back (after looking at Philippa's blog, but she already thinks I'm stalking her, so that admission probably won't do me any favours).

    I didn't comment/join initially because I couldn't be bothered to set up yet another internet user profile.
    But then, after I set up my own *ahem* blog, I still lurked for a bit too, because I wasn't quite sure whether one had to be invited or not, or indeed whether I was welcome.

    Anyway, the other day, I umm'd and aahh'd for ages before coming on, because I was aware of how it would look with regards to my 'flouncing off from CiF', and I was quite nervous about my first post (waited at least 10 minutes before I pressed 'post').

    Right, my point, if you're still with me, is that I thought about the sort of stuff you mentioned, and I didn't just 'join' so it could be a 'bridging' site, or somewhere to hang out until I let off some steam. Honestly I didn't!

    Although I know it's going to be hard, I'm really trying to resist CiF on principle, until I perceive that certain things have changed, and, in all likelihood, I'll be 'asked politely' to leave here, way before I jump.

    (as you can probably tell, I really need places like this...)

  99. @heyhabib

    Kudos for your comments the other day on the 'birthday thread', btw. Made me laugh out loud.

  100. pen

    If you read this, it is just a note to say that I have some knowledge of the situation you seem to be in, although that is not to pretend any insights or knowledge or similar feelings.

    Things can work out well and things can change for the better.

    As you might say, though, what do I know?

    Hang in and hold tight.

  101. Hi Atomboy. I still hesitate to accuse the whole paper. I find the news sections and review sections regularly worthwhile.

    The analysis has always been as laughable - or great quality, depending on the day, the writer, the story, and the editorial staff - as it is now. I remember reading academic journals and New Left Review in the early nineties, and then being taken aback by the embarassing lack of in depth analysis in any broadsheet. Yet, often, in the broadhseet, there was, and still *is* fine analysis.

    This is my point. Any - sometimes all - journalistic standards of fact checking, evidence based and quality writing, have been abandoned on CiF.

    Why? And why should anyone support it ?

    Especially when critiques are simply removed without any trace.

    - My grievance in a nutshell.

  102. Back from work at last, not good to drink rather large glass of wine on an empty stomach but thought I would say thanks for the tips on how to sort out my logging on problems. I will try and tackle this tomorrow.

    Pen Sorry to hear about your problems with Surrey uni and hope that you are OK.


  103. James, I never thought that you were just here temporarily because of Cif, lurker or not. And if it seems difficult to jump in here, well, that's not something we can do anything about apart from saying that everybody is welcome. We are what we are - it might not to be everybody's taste. But LaRit has posted here before (a long time ago, so it's not new to her) but she disappeared, and now pops up again with a litany of complaints about Cif and moderation. Forgive me for being sceptical, and nothing personal against LaRit, but that's old hat to me, seen it all before, and I imagine that LaRit will be gone again in a day or two. I think that's a shame because she has interesting things to say and could provoke good debates here, but if she's not interested, fair enough, why should I be?

  104. Lurkers out there - don't lurk - join in - I lurked for ages, it's silly and trust me, I had reason to be fearful when I came along. Damn good people on this thread, despite what some think on CiF.

    And you're not considered a traitor if you post there when you want to, just remember where your friends are, from time to time.

  105. Hello again,
    Having one of those days - feel like a rubber ball on a piece of elastic.


    It is sometimes difficult to understand quite what you are asking of people. i enjoy chit-chat or serious discourse. Don't worry too much about premod - these things pass.


    there need not be a conflict between posting here and on Cif - I don't see that as the problem. The problem for me is the manipulation on Cif - posters as commodity. There is less interest in our opinions than in our collective ability to lure advertisers. The Guardian as a serious newspaper - with some sort of social conscience is long gone. That is what disappoints me - angers me actually as there is very little honest reporting anywhere - it is all agenda driven.
    As I understand it this site excludes nobody - my experience of it is that all are welcome to come here for a chat ,serious discussion and the intermittent bustup. Not much into bustups myself but enjoy other two - and the music.

  106. well, that was an interesting evening. how come i end up discussing liel law in the pub? jeez. anyway - Montant - Terry H picked a good year to be born in, the Sisters have a song, 1959, about the year of their 'main man's' birth. which is rather lovely. hang on. here.

    Hello laRit!

    I came over here, must admit, in relation to a modding incident (involving an iddlebid thread, who'd a thunk it?) but in my defence, I have stuck aroubd like a bad penny....

    AB offends me, not on an ideological but an intellectual level. Can cope with disagreement. Childish misrepresentation and whingeing, not so much. There's the disappointment...

    ooh, wine...

  107. Cheers, James Dixon, sometimes there's a lot of joy to be had from bowling a fast, inswinging yorker; you invariably get a wicket or make the batter look silly. Predictable if you do it on every delivery, though. :-)

  108. James - my pleasure.

    Bitterweed - I know I have generalised but I think it is reasonable to say that the general shift is towards demagoguery and didacticism, sensationalism and zelebrity hagiography.

    It's becoming a shitty little rag.

    The question is whether and what anyone should do.

  109. Phillippa- you old goth !!! Who knew ?

  110. @Scherf, @Paul, @James

    I have been registered with the Guardian for ever - it was part of my job to keep track of online news presences after the Telegraph kicked things off in 1990-whatever. I never used to say anything, as I never had much confidence in my own opinions; everybody else seemed so bloody certain about things, and I was never sure enough. On Cif, later, the same applied. And then I started adding a few things here and there, pointing out connections that people might have missed. or adding links or other info that might be helpful.

    And then I started getting angry about some things, and saying so sometimes. Then I came over here, after some comment or other on Waddya. And eventually said something, and found a welcome.

    I'm still not sure about much, apart from enduring convictions that Seumas Milne must be fought to the last ditch, that Matt Seaton is a fucking fool, and that sticking everyone into some 'community' or other is the deadest of dead ends.

    But I like it here.


    I don't understand you at all, but am willing to give it another go.


    Ah yes, journalistic standards. I remember them.

  111. when i get my old photos scanned, I'll scare the crap out of all y'all! hehehehehehehe. was thinking about that earlier discussing 'proms'. mate down here has photos of itwe need to scan - i look like an alien (but in a *cough* goooooood way *cough*).

    maintain that the sisters are the best band ever (run away now, james) - my desert island discs would be a riot. c'mon, play!

  112. Atomboy
    Ok... I was truly stunned to see Page Eight last Saturday - under "National News" a whole page dedicated to Lady Gaga's new fucking (sic) video.

    A whole page.

    And the song sounds like any old anodyne shitdisco from Madonnas back catalogue.

    Perhaps you have a point about handcarts and hell...

    Did you see yestersday's two page analysis of Brown's campaign staff ?

    They're heading for the "squeezed middle classes" by all accounts.

    "The question is whether and what anyone should do"

    An be replaced by what ?

    Market value is the name of the game here.

    Do you want pure evil like Murdoch and cunts like Dacre running everything ???

    Tricky, I knows...

  113. ah, they're doing a piece on the berlin wall coming down on R4. still remember the phonecall we got from my aunt and uncle. had never heard my aunt cry before....

  114. OK - confession time. I had to google Terry Hall. Is it the one in the Specials?

    My knwledge of lots of popular stuff - music, films etc is approaching zilch.

    Don't know how this happened, raised several kids, worked with yoofs - still do as volunteer - it all somehow passes me by - seems ephemeral and never quite jels beyond enjoying some of it at the time. Never remember names.

    I enjoy lots f the music posted here - recognise it when I hear it. I must have a deficiency of some kind. I can sing (in my head) the whole of the Mozart horn concertos etc - that's about the limit of my ability. feel a bit thick sometimes.

  115. PeterJ
    Hi. Nice post.

    "everybody else seemed so bloody certain about things"

    Sometimes right. Sometimes wrong. Always certain....

    Tha'ts pretty much the deal out there...

  116. Paul, sorry, part of my last post was also sort of addressed to you. I was conflating your post and James's, I suppose. FYI some people here post on Cif, some don't. No big deal. Just get involved here if you want to. You'll unfortunately get to know everybody pretty quickly. Regarding the bedtime thing - some people post on American/canadian time and heyhabib works the nightshift - he'll keep you chooned up. Speaking of which HH, beat this:

    pain in my heart

    Gotta love that brass! I'm in a soul mood.

  117. I always get Terry Hall mixed up with Stuart Hall


  118. And now, here is some music that's been repeating in my head for days.

    First this.

    And then this.

  119. Bitterweed

    Do you want pure evil like Murdoch and cunts like Dacre running everything ???

    In a way, I would rather have obvious cunts like Dacre and Murdoch who do not pretend to be otherwise than shitdribbles like Seaton and, presumably, Rusbridger, who pretend to be what they are not.

    I would also rather that those who espouse the rule of red in tooth and claw and dog-eat-dog economics actually survive that regimen in some manner or form, rather than the cosseted mamby-pambies of Seatonia pretending that they are capable of living in the real world.

  120. Sherf
    Soul ? I know, I know. This is Martillo's finest ever contribution (out of many) from a couple of years ago, when you could still hijack a thread for the "greater good" ... heh

    Jackie Opel
    - Fly Me to The Moon
    Gorgeous !!

  121. @scherfig

    Thanks for that.Appreciate it.

    Am currently listening to Eva Cassidy singing
    'Somewhere over the Rainbow'.A few minutes ago
    'Trampled Underfoot' by Led Zep.From one extreme
    to the other i know but like them both.!

  122. Indeed Atom, but, again - are you talking of the product as a whole, or the ring-fenced cess pool that is cif ?

    My bet is that CiF (GU) is skewing their agenda while truly talented hacks hang on in morbid fear.

    The G *still* isn't all about comment... yet ...

  123. Bitterweed

    Please do not think I am being aggressive, by the way.

    Having a free and lonely weekend has meant that I am having a drink for the first time in, perhaps, years. I do not normally bother.

    As for music, can anyone find and link to the song After the Laughter (Comes Tears) by Wendy Renee, please? Thanks.

  124. Paul
    Links man - links ! Get them rocking over here ! (Please)

  125. BW

    the ring-fenced cess pool that is cif ?

    Thanks. Lovely.

  126. Now, now Scherf, you know it's not a contest, but that had me wishing I wasn't going for the bus in sixteen minutes and counting :-(

    BW, nowt wrong with being a goth. (Although I did find it quite hard to get the white face thing going.... thought about going as a reverse goth for a while - dark face, white clothes, but I think I would have just ended up looking like a tanned Roy Rodgers.)

  127. Not for a minute Atomboy
    Best I can do

  128. now wrong with being a goth? course not

    (am being nice, this is the 4min version)

    Naechts wenn ich shlaef, bin ich lebendig...

  129. Philippa, we'll really have to do something about your musical education. Instead of pale goth copies you need to go back to the source nick drake pink moon

  130. Thanks Bitterweed.

    I'm getting a failure on your link.

    I know the song but could only find rap-style derivatives on YouTube last time I looked.

  131. Atomboy
    Clearly the best link I could "find" wasn't up to it. Sorry.

  132. @Philippa, @Scherf

    Closest I came to Goth - I bought this as a single when it came out...

  133. @Atomboy - the BW link needs an 'm' inserting at the end of 'youtube.com'...

  134. fwiw, I think Bitters is right about the Graun, Atomboy - comment is only part of the story.

    Hope the late shift isn't too arduous, habib, and, as you've a bus to catch, that it's not chucking it down with rain over your way as much as it is in Yorkshire tonight.

    I'm done with catching up on prev threads for now & must crawl off to my bed, so will leave you guys to the Friday night choons. Enjoy.

  135. Thanks Peter
    I R Fuckwit

    Now you're talking !

  136. PeterJ - Thank you.

    Will drop this one sand go back and check.

    Never quite sure how this bit of UT works.


  137. MsChin

    I'm sure you are both right and I am only partially right and wrong.

  138. Here's a pessimistic take on the future of the Guardian...

  139. need to go back and catch up wi' tunes - see offski has causing small chaos on the 'lurkers thread - here's summat to be going on with...

  140. "Also Mr Seaton is a bad scary man and he shouts a lot because some of the people don't like his blog. People should not criticise Mr Seaton. He is a very very very clever man who knows lots of famous and clever people "
    you're a bad man, MF, but it's good having you around!

  141. Got a link to mf pHILIPPA?

    Oh, ferk, drunken monkey fingers.

    Thanks for the link BW.

    There is something unutterably tragic and touching about the human voice which cannot be conveyed by instrumental mucic - hic

  142. Fucking TEN out of TEN to Offski...

  143. Right, I'm getting lost in all these musical links now, but HH - Sanctuary good, Atomboy - the Waterboys, old hippy druggy stuff (which I love), my old mate Roddy played trumpet on that song btw (he's the one with the hook nose and curly hair er.. playing the trumpet), Philippa - I despair. Can I help?

    Chiffons I'm gonna dry my eyes

  144. really, read the whole thing, it's just ... just...

    anway (needs time to buffer...)

  145. "shut up shut up weeeoooooohhh "

    So right.

  146. Hmm, er fine until one of yer parents clogs it PhB !

    End of life care...

  147. scherfig

    my old mate Roddy played trumpet on that song btw

    I remember reading that there was a discussion about what the trumpet part should be and - your mate, presumably - suggested that it should follow the classic line of a phrase being replied to and repeated.

    Brilliant song.

  148. Bugger, it's just got interesting, and I have to go for dinner.

    Have fun...

  149. Peter
    I thought they only did one tune
    (Cue Tommy Vance)


  150. Offski is in fine form.

    I think they fear the consequences if theyban him.

  151. Roddy Lorimer - dunno what his input was on that song. He was a very laid back Scottish guy, classically trained though, so you might be right. Didn't really talk much about that stuff down the pub.

  152. scherfig

    I think I should have said something like replied to, developed and extended, rather than just repeated.

    I don't know anything about music, but is that a bit like the concerti grossi?

    For those quoting MF/offski - could the thicks who can no longer post over there - me! - be given a link, please?


  153. scherfig

    If he was classically trained, it would sound right.

    The funny thing is that long before I knew the song, I saw type of lino-cut picture of a person climbing a ladder and the moon in the sky and I have never since been able to find it.

    One of life's lovely weirdnesses.

  154. A. It's feckin' snowing here. We just got rid of the 1.5m that had been on the ground since mid-December and now it's feckin' snowing again. Yesterday it was 17° and today it's -1° and feckin' snowing. ARRGGH!

    B. I think Offski's comment needs to be preserved in its entirety, just in case:

    19 Mar 2010, 7:23PM

    I would love to post more on cif but the scary lady from Europe is sooo clever and angry sometimes and her friend tries to make fun of offski and when offski say "don't say bad things scary lady" she just talks about the singing thing with shoes in handbags and stuff about well bread but offski only eat brown bred and her friend makes fun of offski but offski don't like piss takey ladies.

    Also Mr Seaton is a bad scary man and he shouts a lot because some of the people don't like his blog. People should not criticise Mr Seaton. He is a very very very clever man who knows lots of famous and clever people (like B. Campbell OBE and the glamorous, fab and trendy Myerson family...who are like the Islington Von Trapps except when their kids are bad they say "fuck away off, bad kid") and they tell him lots of stuff which makes him know things better than us normal people and when us people say "Mr Seaton, you're blog is poo" he gets angry and shouty and makes me scared and I go into the corner until I'm OK.

    And offski's mother gets lots of bad name-calls. Peoples say mam is bad right-wing bigot weather denier but offski loves his mam and sends her a card on her birthday. So I don't post much because of this stuff but mainly offski don't post much cos the mods don't like offski even though offski likes the Jam and the who and even the Small faces and had a fish tail parka once. Buts mods make offski can't play and offski go away and cry in corner then come back with new name and the bad stuff starts all over again.

  155. @BW - One tune? If only... I have hundreds of 'em.

  156. Oh, that offski needs preserving. Possibly in formaldehyde, but preserved none the less.

  157. Atomboy, apparently not....
    here and search for him, is my best offering....

  158. PeterJ
    Really ? I only knew the Friday Night Rock Show one.

    You're a right old rocker then. Cool. Heh...

  159. Thank you Montana, much better idea - now,
    black as your soul

  160. @Bitterweed

    Sorry for the delayed response but couldn,t
    haveprovided the links anyway.Sounds however
    like you,ve had plenty of alternatives.

    The only sounds i,m listening too at the moment are the erotic slurping sounds from the
    humidifier which are driving the cat mad.Total
    fucking madness!But then she tends to go ape
    about this time of night because any time now
    the woman i live with comes home.At which time
    i cease to exist as this cat is about as contrary as they get.Women!

  161. Good one Philippa, and this might be even better.

    cash hurt

  162. BW - last gig down here, NIN in an amphitheatre. An Amph.I.Theatre. doesn't get much better than that....

  163. Thanks Philippa and Montana and, more importantly, Monkeyfish.

    Absolutely fucking brilliant.

    When I read things like that, I know we are right and they are wrong.

  164. Gosh, the things you come across while wandering around chains of videos.

    I'd nearly forgotten.

  165. love the cash version, scherf, but there's a lot to be said for the original.... coolest man ever to get a congressional cert of honour, surely...

  166. nice, peterj - but am unfortunately on a difficult tip at the minute....

    I want to ....

  167. This one, despite the fact that everyone will know it, for the simple reason that when I first heard it I was driving and I pulled over and wept.


  168. Good lord, Philippa! And you a daughter of the manse too!

  169. hehehehehehehehe.

    the best music moves you. however, whatever, wherever. and that, atomboy, is one that gets you whatever...

  170. Philippa being gnostic

    then this

    be bop

  171. Hey BW, I know you like Trucks, but I much prefer this.
    crash on the levee Redneck acoustic guitar and fairground organ. It's a thousand times more real and atmospheric than the pretty plastic showboat stuff that Trucks does. And it's much shorter.

  172. "let me hear you depoliticise my rhyme..."

  173. Have probably done this before but listen, Indulge me, I'm dr..dr..drunk


  174. There's nothing like a night bus in Manchester. It can be a sing along, silent fear or all out, bloody, war. Sing along tonight - I love pissed up, happy people.

    The secret is to get on the back seat, then you can just watch if you want to. Hmm, posible analogy forming there.

    I know I'll love catching up with all the music when you lot have gone to bed. Good health to all.

  175. Philippa

    Oh, I think I know what you mean now. It's what Paul Gambaccini said about Suzanne Vega,

    The purpose of music is to move you and if it does not do that it has failed

  176. right, someone has me on a riot grrl tip so....

  177. Scherf
    Sure it's pretty. Well if you will insist on raising the bar. Here's the UT's unnoficial anthem.

    Always Dylan !

    Have you read Chronicles by the way ?

  178. Hey, Habib

    I am not normally here at this time.

    Please feel free to take over.

    Thanks for making Seaton look a pillock.

    My best wishes to you.

  179. Atomboy
    All kinds of wrong. Like it...

  180. atomboy - old joke...
    lesbian speed-dating is really dull, by the third girl I was just like, hey, my name is luka, I live on the second floor....

    again with the buffering