13 March 2010


These are the lives that were lost in Dunblane on 13 March, 1996:

Victoria Elizabeth Clydesdale
Emma Elizabeth Crozier
Melissa Helen Currie
Charlotte Louise Dunn
Kevin Allan Hasell
Ross William Irvine
David Charles Kerr
Mhairi Isabel MacBeath
Brett McKinnon
Abigail Joanne McLennan
Gwen Mayor
Emily Morton
Sophie Jane Lockwood North
John Petrie
Joanna Caroline Ross
Hannah Louise Scott
Megan Turner


  1. morning everyone

    Sombre anniversary - but glad you remembered Montana.

  2. morning.

    remember Steve Bell's cartoon after Dunblane - the class photo, torn in two. it was very simple, and very poignant.

    have something of a hangover. which is probably not going to come as a surprise to those reading my work last night. 'hem.

  3. Well done again Montana. Funny I can't remember the killer's name - and am not going to look him up - but I remember that a Scottish newspaper reporter went to his mother's house and said something like 'Your son just killed a load of children, how do you feel about that?'

    Think Andy Murray was in the class below most of those children. The waste.

  4. Good morning.

    A sombre reminder, yes.

    But it's a beautiful sunny day here in Yorkshire and I don't have a hangover :)

  5. Thanks for the reminder Montana,I was driving when the news broke and can remember how horrified I felt particularly as my daughter was the same age.

    I'm working today seems wrong on a Saturday!


  6. Morning all,


    thanks for the best wishes yesterday.

    Was out for my farewell do with work last night. Pyoor stocious so ah wuz, but strangely no hangover this morning.

    Regarding Dunblane. I think it was last year the Sunday Express ran a vile article on ''where are the survivors now?''

    They trawled through the now 18 year olds facebook profiles and splashed on the fact that these 18 year olds liked drinking, partying and copping off with the opposite sex. You know, the type of activities that no other 18 year old would engage in.

    It was the most disgusting article I can remember in a long time.

  7. Morning friends.

    A sad anniversary indeed and sadly I saw something recently about the latest madness in the USA - a movement to glorify the open carrying of handguns.

    Loads of twats of both sexes swaggering around with holsters around their waists and pistols on open show.

    Stupid tossers, I can't undersatnd why they think it affords them protection from muggers - it's an open invitation to shooot them in the back!

    Enuf of the sad. As Chin says a stunner of a day here in Yorks. I don't have a hangover either. I'm between drinks - not a drop for several weeks now (lost nearly a stone so no complaints. Truth is that even when I'm on the pop I don't get hangovers, which is a bad sign...

    PCC - if you call by today I hope that mam got the act together and you got the dreaded test out of the way.

    I hope the results help sort out the problem and that you are fully fit in time for the Furnivall centenary. My best wishes are with you as I'm sure others are too.

    A belated welcome to Cordelia/Christina - glad to read that you have work again and I hope that it is not too tedious.

    Coffee over, time to attend to my dreams....

  8. edwin

    His name was Thomas Hamilton. I was living in Glasgow at the time and the sense of shock was palpable. There's not a lot that will shut up a mouthy weegie but that day the pubs were silent.

  9. Hi Duke - glad to catch you.

    I enjoyed the piece a lot and it was certainly food for thought whilst out walking these last two mornings. It took my mind back to eighteenth century pin factory and the specialisation of labour - a subject of such vileness, to human dignity and the quality of life, that it requires a piece all on its own....

  10. Sheff,

    I remember that atmosphere well. I was at Uni and I have never experienced anything like it. Everyone and everywhere was silent, from the University itself to the bus home. It was horrible.


    I am glad you enjoyed the piece. Your point about the vileness of specialisation is an important one and one in which Smith tried to wrestle with morally and in practical terms.

    His name was taken in vain by the Victorian Industrialists who congratulated his theory of free trade whilst completely disregarding his main argument- that free trade was for the benefit of all society, the "common person" was to be looked after and that businessmen will always try to deceive and thus their avariciousness should be curbed by Civil Society.

    Then the neo-liberalists ran with the same view as the Victorian Industrialists....

    I can't think of another political philosopher whose words and message have been so warped as Adam Smith's.

  11. Hi All--Very late here , but what the fuck, it's friday.

    Dunblane--I can not imagine what those unfortunate people suffered through. Heartbreaking it was.

    Philippa--As to the discussion of last night: Two friends and me went to a party in 1980 or so, one of whom was carrying 2 grams of cocaine. When we walked in, one of my friends was 'identified' as a homosexual,( although that was not the word used) and we were told he was not welcome. I informed the host that this friend owned the coke, and that if he was not welcome, then we would all leave. Philosophies, predjudices and bigotry went out the window and the party blossomed. We laugh about it still.

    Hi Cordelia, we've not met, but good work ATL.

  12. Pin Factory - The Grim

    I post the above link with caution (from a google of "Adam Smith and the pin factory")- I am unfamilar with the site and have not had time to read it yet (Could be right wing tosh) but the subject is a possible follow on from Dukes sterling piece....

  13. And plaudits to the Dook too.

  14. Nice one Boudican - made me laugh. Nothing like the currency of joy to sort the tossers out!

  15. Duke

    I confess I haven't read your piece yet, but will get round to it, honest! I've been distracted from here & CiF by real life for the last couple of weeks, so have a lot of catching up to do, but I see that AtomBoy, Montana & yourself have decided to abandon CiF. That's a shame, but entirely understandable.


    That would make an interesting piece, so go ahead & write it.

  16. Hi deano--hope the crenellations in the parapets are going well. And howdy to your hounds as well.

    MsChin--It is a shame that many have opted to veer away from CiF, (A lot to do with the sneering stainless Andrew Brown but several other issues too) but it just ain't what it once was. Mores the pity.

  17. Hi MsChin,

    as I said on WADDYA, it's the moderating policy. They need to change the site name to

    "Comment is free with a few caveats".

    In case anyone misses it before it gets vapourised, a blindingly good conspiracy theory from GIYUS:

    'Princess Diana "was killed after plan to frighten her went wrong": her criticisms threatened UK defence industries'

    posed the advocate?

    'this will not be covered ......... widely..........................?'

  18. Chin - good too see you around again. Hope the new job search goes well.

    I'll put a piece on my to do list - but it'll be some time before I get around to it. I've a couple of half thought about Mungo pieces to attend to first. And I must sort out that link thing for the Henry Mooore (and me dad) pics.

    I am a man of good intention, but idle and possessed of a shocking lack of ambition - so don't hold your breath

    And now that I am in disciplined mode I must get the brewhouse and one or two other jobs (which have been waiting for about five years) done first.

    As Duke says the issue posed moral problems for Smith and very much so for Fed W Taylor (the alleged founding father of scientific management) later in the 20th Cent.

    I think Fred was a Quaker but I'd have to look it up - what can be said is that towards the end of his life Fred could not look his fellow
    man in the eye.....

    It's arguable that the antecedents of the bonus culture are to found thereabouts....so its worth a piece from someone

    I hope that "real life" has not been too troublesome.

    regards x.

  19. Boudican

    It is a shame that many have opted to veer away from CiF

    I know what you mean - but it does feel like pissing in the wind most of the time which is frustrating and depressing.

    On another note, am off to Sarajevo tonight and am staying in a place that overlooks the Latinski Bridge where the Archduke Ferdinand met his maker. The place is dripping with history and am really looking forward to it.

  20. "They trawled through the now 18 year olds facebook profiles and splashed on the fact that these 18 year olds liked drinking, partying and copping off with the opposite sex. You know, the type of activities that no other 18 year old would engage in."

    The media does seem to have quite regular morality bypasses, it just boggles the mind some of the things they are think are acceptable.

    Philippa - funny you mention reading the first UT thread, i cant remember by which circuit but i actually ended up reading that myself last night.

    You still going to keep in touch on here after the move, Duke?

  21. "Supermarket suppliers under fire as one-fifth of workers interviewed for inquiry report pushed or hit "

    Another charming benefit of having a "flexible" labour force... Not only do you not have to pay them minimum wage, give them breaks, holidays or sick pay, you can hit them too.

  22. Jay,

    I plan to be here as much as usual once we move across. The windmill powered internet connections work very well apparently, so there will be no problems.

  23. Sheff,

    Sarajevo looks great, have a cracking trip.

    I remember reading somewhere that the lyrics to Take me out by the eponymously titled Franz Ferdinand are supposed to be the dying words of the Archduke to his wife.

  24. Have a good one Sheff Look forward to hearing all about it.

    Now your future is sorted - don't rush back take a littler extra time on the sick, the bastards owe you...

    Right that's me I must get on with the task in hand.

    Enjoy it everbody - as the saying goes it's later than you think...

    Jay - I still think that you ought to be a maths teacher. Numbers are a useful way of encouraging the political education of the naive...

  25. Just been listening to Mark Mardell on the R4 (From Our Own Correspondent)

    There are those in the US apparently who actually think Cameron is a socialist. Do we really share a language, or even inhabit the same planet?

  26. Morning all

    Dunblane - an horrendous blot on our collective memory.

    I remember that clip of Thomas Hamilton's mother being doorstepped. The look of absolute bewilderment on the woman's face.

    I remember years ago - I can't remember what particular incident provoked it - my sister saying that if she ever won the lottery she would pay for paperazzi to hound and photograph gutter reporters just to give them a taste of their own medicine. Sounds like a plan.

    I am remarkably non-hungover, albeit a bit bleary-eyed, after an evening of double vodkas with my mate. I kept away from the sambuca and cranberry shots, though.

  27. Good stuff, Duke, i suspect listening to us talk about the mother country will actually give you a daily reminder of what a good decision emigration was.

    On another, admittedly crude, note, and i do apologise to the ladyfolk (with the exception of philippa or any other of the infected), i watched the video yesterday of Ariane doing her twitter roundup of the week. Aside from being quite witty on occasion and pissing off religious people regularly, she is also has the most enormous rack. She is truly one of god's creations. Though she still hasnt responded to the marriage offer(s)...

  28. "There are those in the US apparently who actually think Cameron is a socialist."

    Please tell me thats not true...

    Though i do remember a thread where they were also saying Blair was leading a global socialist cabal to bring down the US, in full seriousness. Blair, their poodle in chief.

    Deano - i havent given the teaching too much thought lately, tbh, i hear applications have rocketed and its actually quite competitive now, and everytime i hear horror stories from the classroom i just think it sounds dreadful.

    I am considering the NHS grad scheme (if successful) next year, as much as i loathe the managerialism and ridiculous ratio of managers to actual medical staff, i still need a job/career and options dont seem too numerous. Finance kills the soul, i need to leave.

  29. Forgive me Jay (am a bit out of touch obviously), but what's a rack? Are you referring to her tits?

  30. Sheff, we'll have none of that language on here, thank you very much, this is a political blog. A bit of decorum please.


  31. Jay
    Finance kills the soul, i need to leave.

    You should try the ukba!

  32. BB ...I kept away from the sambuca and cranberry shots, though.... Glad you had a good time nontheless

    Discipline BB - no finer thing.

    I'm struggling with mine this morn. That bloody googlething is no good at all for me...........I can't resist looking things up.

    .............so to save others from the evil ------------ yes it was that case that Frederick Winslow Taylor was from a Quaker background.

    That's me lot for today.

  33. Your van Dukeness (just how are we common folk to address you now?) The moderation policy is a clusterfuck,no doubt. The quality ( or lack of) ATL is to me unimaginitive and repetitive.

    Hi Jay--I appreciate and admire (often as I can) a nice rack. I shouldn't tell you that Ariane has consented to be with me, but only after I get rid of my other wives. No hard feelings, there are other women out there.

  34. "You should try the ukba!"

    You havent exactly done a great job of selling it these last few days, Sheff, you need to work on your pitch ;)

  35. Boudican, this is shocking news. I told Alba it was over, that i had found someone else and now you tell me she's spoken for...

  36. jay - will check out that video, for *cough* educational *cough* reasons, obviously...

    on job options, i am actually hoping they do start recruiting 'avoidance busters' to hmrc, as given my cv, it's probably the only thing i'd have any experience for...

    still hoping to find something down here though. although what someone with about 75% french and no specific skills can expect to be paid for, god only knows...

  37. Jay

    What makes you think working in the NHS is any different from working in finance?

    And I'm not having you objectifying whatsername like that .. shocked and appalled I am.

  38. Sheff--Have a good trip. My parents honeymooned in Sarajevo after the war. ( To this day, I'm not completely sure why.) They both said it was a history lesson. May get there sometime.

    Jay, as one who has constantly told us of corruption, incompetence and ineptitude in government, you, as a student, should realise that your prospects, should they even come to fruition, can not approach the standards required to satisfy the needs of the lovely Ariane.

  39. Sheff--Christ on Lance Armstrong's bike. Racial profiling (Canadian government too ) at it's finest. Do you think this will change after the election? -----Nah, didn't think so either.

  40. sheff

    Good grief .. is this really the UK or have I woken up in some parallel universe?

    btw, the domestic abuse project down the road from you closes its doors at the end of March, along with 2 other community-based projects. The council has decided to make things more efficient by giving victims of abuse a centralised service which will be based in police premises in the city centre.

    So much for "Sheffield, where everyone matters".

  41. do you think they made this up?

    I remember seeing this years ago and could never decide if anything like this ever really took place...you have to watch it all. Are baboons really so stupid?

  42. boudican

    Feels like this country is becoming a complete shitehole...

    and yet....I have a a young Iranian refugee staying with me who thinks the UK is wonderful (except the weather). He's amazed that the police call him Sir and don't demand money not to beat him up and thinks we are all wonderfully friendly. I just hope he doesn't go on any demos.

  43. Hi everyone.

    My name is Paul and i,m a newcomer
    to UT.Am also an increasingly
    disillusioned user of CIF.

    However that is inconsequential given
    that today is the anniversary of the
    truly horrific massacre at Dunblane in 1996.Those poor kids would have been
    young adults now.RIP.

  44. Hello Paul.

    And welcome to Cordelia & yourself.

  45. Hey, PaulBJ! Welcome, welcome...

  46. Mr Fish

    The Mahalahari has no eyes for the beauty of the setting

    How do they know? Apart from that I thought it was great - especially the perplexed baboon not realising he just had to let the melon seeds go. Evolution is a wonderful thing.

    Hi Paul - welcome to the asylum.

  47. MF

    Youtube isn't working for me for some reason today. Is the site down? I was going to post a link earlier to the buffer girls film (diamonds in brown paper) for deano.

  48. Hi Paul--Welome to you.

    Sheff, in the young Iranian's new situation, he sees the idea of democratic freedom, if not the ideal that we seek. Here's to his new life.

  49. "What makes you think working in the NHS is any different from working in finance?"

    I'd just rather work for the public health service than working for a multi-millionaire, i'd like to think that effort and good work = social benefit rather than making more money for a very wealthy man. Day to day, it may be little different from my current role. I dont feel the options are too numerous, i have no speciality or skills as such and our economy is fucked.

    Boudican - she will be overwhelmed by my natural good nature and joviality.

    Hi Paul, welcome to UT.

  50. Paul, that's welome as in welcome. 5:00 am, ninight.

  51. Jay, admirable features to be sure, but they will not pay for the athiest Bentley will they?

  52. Travel? Why would you need to travel anywhere with those puppies to play with?

  53. According to Libby Brookes Malcolm Tucker will be having a regular column on cif and will befollowing every belch and stutter of the election campaign

    One of their better ideas. At least we'll get a few larfs now.

  54. @Sheff - that piece you link to is a rehash of the arguments Seumas Milne came up with, with added human interest stories, and is as wrong now as he was then.

    The sentences were not unusually harsh given the guidelines and previous cases, those arrested were not necessarily singled out as Muslims (even the piece itself, belatedly, hints the same), and there is so much that is contentious in the piece as a whole that it should be filed under opinion rather than news.

    I know this view won't be popular, but I'm fed up of this kind of slanted stuff.

  55. JayReilly

    Good point. You seem to be mellowing with age mate. Your comment vaguely recalled a Bindel piece which bemoaned the extra lengths women need to go to just to be considered the equal of men. Not only do they carry the heavier domestic and childrearing burdens; need to overcome latent patriarchal stereotypes and prejudice; and shoulder the implicit expectation of multitasking...they've also the constant temptation of just staying at home and playing with their tits to contend with.

    I'm glad you're finally beginning to come to terms with radical feminist narrative. It won't be long before you accept the ethical imperative which obliges you to offer reparation of some description for your years of privileged exploitation.

  56. Youtube wasn't working for me yesterday or today - I cleared the cookies and it is working fine now, so that might work MsChin

    That link's a cracker, MF. Yes, baboons really must be that stupid I guess, although one wonders how they managed to film inside the ant-hill - looked like animation to me so there could be some exaggeration there I guess.

    Welcome to the pleasuredome, Paul and Cordelia/Christine

    Your Grace, glad you will keep posting from Cloggy-Land. Most jealous you are going to live there.

    Jay - not the UKBA ffs. Please. Although to be fair they do need more people like you and Sheff, not fewer. A UKBA agent posts on CiF under the nick "TheVoiceOfReason08", then goes on to say about how all immigration lawyers are bent and incompetent etc etc. At least I give credit where credit's due when I come across a UKBA employee who is decent, fair and hardworking - and there are many even if they don't seem to make up the majority.

    What a dork.

    Deano - I know what I am in for, going out to drink with this particular friend. She has had me nobbled on shots more times than I care to mention...

  57. Hi Paul & Cordelia, and respect to the children of Dunblane.

    Feel a bit guilty now because I can't wipe a stupid grin off my face - #2 child has just heard from Aberystwyth that he's been awarded a Merit scholarship to study International Politics - unconditional offer + £1000. He's had a bit of a crap 6 months so this is really fantastic news.

  58. I am an honorary member of the sisterhood these days, what can i say. But i will be excused from the reparations because of my contributions to sisterly doctrine and discourse, feminist theory and all that. Keeping an intelligent woman at home to maul her breasts is, they tell me, wholly in line with "4th wave feminist meta-narratives on self empowerment and choice affirmation in a post-patriarchal plural society". There have even been rumours of me playing a role of some sort at Fawcett.

  59. Mr Fish

    Some of us wouldn't mind having some tits to play with....that is after we've finished painting our toe nails and servicing our man...


    You may well be right - all I know about the case is what I've read in the paper.

    Still, I do know how over the top the plods can be when deciding to arrest someone in the early hours - having been on the end of it myself - albeit some time ago.

    And the sentences do seem a bit harsh to me, if what they're supposed to have done is accurate.

  60. Hiya, Paul and Cordelia.
    Jay, tread carefully. I do lots and lots of NHS work, and that necessitates many meetings with managers:a good number are decent,trying to do their best in the blizzard of fuckwittery that emanates from the ivory towers of the DH. However, it is demanded that they all pay at least lip service to marketisation, and those that rise the ranks tend to be the most rabid free-marketeers, favouring back-door privatisation.Quite seriously, you'll find some of the most ardent neo-liberal demagogues within the upper echelons of the NHS, quietly crapping on clinicians,support staff and patients. Be warned.

  61. Shaz

    Very well done to your No2 child. I'm sure he deserves it and I hope he has a great time when he gets there.

  62. Congrats Shaz and child...

    And if a bit of child-promotion is in order; my daughter has her MA course interview at the Royal College of Art next week, and has a final selection interview at Columbia Art College in Chicago coming up too. Damn these generation-skipping talents!

  63. Congrats to all on the success of their progeny. I sincerely hope I will be able to post the same kind of stuff in a year or two.... please... anybody... :o)

  64. Hi Cordelia and welcome. And hello Paul - enjoyed your posts on Cif a lot.

    Duke - good luck with the move. And I have read your UT2 article properly and commented (but my brain is still bit addled) - it is a fantastic piece I hope you will be doing some more!

    Deano - I cant believe I actually managed to do it. When I got there I was sick with nerves (I have to say in my defence I am not normally a wuss but due to having broken my jaw and smashed my teeth, broken my cheekbone and done in more teeth and having my tonsils out and it going wrong, I am VERY phobic re doctors messing about in my mouth).

    So I am sat in the waiting area with my rather ill, but present, mother and this man comes out and goes up to a young woman (presume his girlfriend). He has his hand over his throat and he says 'Oh my god that was fucking horrendous. HOnestly it was the worst thing ever.' He then gets tears in his eyes mutters sorry and puts his head in his hands. A grown man! I nearly ran out of there. When I signed the consent in the operating room my hand was shaking so bad they joked I could just put a cross.

    Anyway they gave me some sort of lovely drug into my veins (that I would quite like to have at home really) and the whole thing passed in a blur -
    If anyone ever goes for the camera thing just have the sedative -its nice!

    They found a lot of acid but no obvious cause such as an ulcer etc. Sent off biopsies but until see consultant again not sure what they will do as no particular easy thing like an ulcer to treat.

    Who is this twittering woman with the huge norks of which you speak Jay?

    Oh and can I ask the men on here - completely random but - do any of you think Lady Gaga is sexy?

    Just read a Guardian piece that claims that Beyonces sex appeal looks old fashioned (can sex appeal ever really date?) compared to Gagas. But I have yet to meet a man who finds Gaga sexy (bit like Madonna).

  65. "Oh and can I ask the men on here - completely random but - do any of you think Lady Gaga is sexy?"

    No..far as I'm concerned, she might as well stay home and play with her ..erm..parts...or is that just an urban myth?

  66. Just a quick visit to say thanks for the friendly welcome.Hadn,t realised so many 'familiar faces'were on this site.

    Sounds like you,re going through the wars PRINCESS so take care of yourself.

    And for the record i find Lady Gaga totally unattractive.She looks like a drag queen and drag queens just don,t do it for me!

  67. Puff piece for Lady Gaga's new video on Page eight of the Guardian news section today, under 'National'.

    No need for further embelishment.

  68. Yeah Bitterweed thats where I got the query from. In the video though she allegedly 'proves' she is all female. Although it is blurred out (thank the lord!).

    I know it is unimportant in such times of economic meltdown but I was just struck by that line 'Beyonces sex appeal is old fashioned compared to Gagas'. Maybe 'the Lady' is the sort of woman some women think men should find attractive? I have a friend who gets really angry that her other half doesn't like Sarah Jessica Parker. Who she thinks is 'stylish and beautiful'. Ha ha ha.

    I was also struck by the fact that the Guardian writers who are often championing womens rights against the evil, stripper watching men, seem to think it is a good thing that Lady Gaga is writhing around half naked in her videos cause it is 'empowering' and like 'taking control of her sexuality'.

    'Women like to writhe around naked for fun, ironic empowerment, men like women to writhe around naked for darker reasons'...

  69. Hi Paul - I add my welcome too. We haven't met but I look forward to your contributions here on UT.

    Fool that I am - I forgot to point out that my link at 10.57 above, at the foot of the linked page, provides a link to the full text of The Wealth of Nations for those who have a continuing interest in Adam Smith's contribution.

    PCC Well done young miss.

    I can't assist with your query, as a gentleman I always look away when I'm told there is a gaga lady around, so I don't even know what she is or looks like.

    Since I find argumentative women sexy unless she is in that mould she won't do it for me - must say she sounds like a tosser..., ....must be difficult booking a table at McDonald's with a name like that.

    Just time to get the dogs an evening walk in.

  70. PCC - you are not a wuss. I am a total coward when it comes to doctors, hospitals, dentists - in fact anything at all to do with poking around with my body parts.

  71. Well, PCC, it's all part of her PR. Basically, editors receive press pack, during the week, in their weekend planning meeting decide it's going to sell an extra 5000 copies of Saturday issue, editor gets hack to write any old post modernist/pseudo feminsist shite to try to appeal to that 'niche' readership, who being twentysomethings have no clue what feminism is, largely will largely swallow it without complaint.

    This is why the Guardian is such a mess; when it suits their purposes they can betray a hundred years of poltical strife, as long as it makes them look remotely "edgy". And sells copy of course. Must be related to the direct historic line between the NME and their largely pisspoor columns.

    Gaga is about as interesting as Madonna was fifteen years ago, in as much as, if you put a naked not unnatracive female in front of me, generally just porning it up and sexing about without shame or consequence, for about ten seconds I'll be thinking of little else but my mojo. Then I'll remember I'm hearing a fifth rate disco singer who probably makes love with as much warmth as a rusty old kettle in a wheelie bin, and whose business team help her each morning with her "artistic direction."

    Oh, and the song makes me play another video through my mind - a pack of twenty somethings hurling fists and claws at eachother after a five hour Jagemermeister binge in a Benfleet nightclub. Probably about next weekend, 11.45 p.m.


  72. It really doesn't matter one crap if it's a girl, boy or she-he, by the way. It's all a load of cock.

  73. " I have a friend who gets really angry that her other half doesn't like Sarah Jessica Parker. "

    Has she had a cat scan lately ?

  74. BB - I can be a bit brave - usually - except for when it comes to the face area. Due to much messing of that in the past. By rights with what I have broken on my face I should look like a cage fighter.

    I am with you on dentists especially - they are the worst.

    Deano - enjoy the walk with your dogs - it is getting a bit cloudy here. Has there been any more mentions of the jacket business?

  75. Anyone been to Chernobyl? This woman has.

    Well worth a look. About as grim as it gets.

    The shape of things to come ??

  76. Some of it looks like it could be Scotland. or Pensylvania...

  77. Bitters

    I can't bear to look at the Gaga thing & couldn't be doing with Madonna either. But I rather like your aposite comment about the kettle / wheelie bin.

    I watched the Women's Libbers tv prog on the iplayer and was reminded of how far women have come since the 60s. I think MsR said something similar (but I may be confused - catching up on a weeks' posts is a bit brain-blurring).

    sheff - have you left for foreign parts yet? Bon voyage x

  78. Hi MsChin
    You're not missing much. Just the ubiquitous tin-eared disco-porn that allegedly smart people think they ought to like.

  79. Aside from being quite witty on occasion and pissing off religious people regularly, she is also has the most enormous rack. She is truly one of god's creations.

    And therein lies the secret of her success. I'm in complete agreement with MsRobinson about Ariane Sherine -- she's a talentless little bauble of a girl who is only where she is because loads of men want to fuck her.

    And now that I have that little rant out of the way:

    Sheff: enjoy Sarajevo. I missed my chance to go there in 1980. One of the two maids at the pension I lived in in Paris was from there and her son (who was my age) was still there. She thought that I'd make a good wife for him and that a "pretty" (??) American girl might be able to lure him westward. But Tito had died just a week or so after I arrived in Paris and I was apprehensive about what might happen in Yugoslavia in the aftermath, so I was too afraid to go.

    Cordelia & Paul: Welcome to the UT. I don't think we're anywhere near as horrible as they say we are, but then, I might not be the best judge.

    Monkeyfish: I'm pretty sure that I've either seen that same clip or similar. Somewhere in my mind I remember hearing that they would do that. But the clip reminded me of the first part of The Gods Must Be Crazy and now I'm going to have to see if it can be bought online for a reasonable price, 'cos I want to see it again.

    As for this:

    they've also the constant temptation of just staying at home and playing with their tits to contend with.

    I may be atypical, but playing with my tits is not only not a constant temptation for me, I can't say as that it has ever been a temptation for me. When I touch them, nothing happens. They only seem to work when someone else touches them.

    Shaz & Peter: congratulations on the success of your offspring! I hope that mine will be as successful -- he is my retirement plan.

    Princess: Well done! And fingers crossed that it's something that will be easily treatable, once they figure out what it is.

  80. Bitterweed - no she hasn't had a cat scan lately - they would probably find a big gap where her brain should be. She is actually an ex-friend. I have mentioned her before once or twice, she married a very rich guy and has a very rich dad and on the occasion we became ex-friends told me her family shouldn't pay any taxes as they don't use the NHS or the education system.

    She is also a supposed Christian but wouldn't piss on a poor person if they were on fire in front of her.
    But that is what happens when you make friends at the impressionable age of eleven and don't manage to lose them on the way to growing up. Not that I am actually all that grown up...

  81. Nice one, princess, sounds like an ex-friend truly worth having.

  82. PCC, I like the get out clause at the end. Who is ??

    But fair comment - tricky to stay close when that's going on !

    My best mate is marrying a rotten tory next year, wants me to be best man. What makes matters awkward for me (and a few other mates) is that she's a social worker who hates most of her clients, and blames a lot of peiople for the shit they're in, yet has very right on ways. hollidays in Morocco, very bohemian house (all his of course).

    He's a massive intellect, physics & engineering PhD, and we've been great buddies for a couple of decades through thick and thin, and now she's hovered into his life like a shitehawk over a yacht. She's basically a needy control freak. He's basixcally quite placid and takes bossy women without issue, as he was brought up by a very domineering mum and bossy sister. Without them, he;'d have flunked school at fifteen. Going to be a difficult speech this one. I think I'll just have to take the piss a bit !

  83. Montana - Thanks for making it clear who Jay was talking about. I didn't realise it was Ariane Sherline. She is a 'pretty little thing' as my dear, dead uncle would say. But Jay - she hasnt got THAT big a rack!

    I think all men think that women spend their time alone playing with their tits Montana - don't ruin it for them.

    I am off back to sleep as shattered. Think the drugs are still in the system. Nice and relaxing they are too. So I shall bid you all a good nite.

  84. "I think all men think that women spend their time alone playing with their tits Montana - don't ruin it for them. "

    Not only that, but we know you all you have pillowfights in your underwear when you're together too.

  85. Oh Bitterweed just read your comment and had to quickly respond. Yes the rotten Tory bird. That is not a good situation to be in - for you I mean having to be best man - but it isn't for him either actually marrying the horror. Why do nice people sometimes end up with absolute horrors and not seem to realise what they are?

    I find it really hard with people who are raging Tories with vile views of those less fortunate, to even be civil. If you gently take the piss that might make you feel a bit better. Saying a little of what you want to say in an 'I'm only joking way' might let off a bit of steam about the whole situation?

    This friend of mine actually ended up calling my dad a loser one night because he had no money and so in the end I just couldn't keep on seeing her. I had spent years beng annoyed and irritated and it all came to a head. She is also a massive control freak. Her husband is a nice guy too (filthy rich but a nice guy)- god knows how she managed to pull the wool over his eyes.

    It must be hard having to see a mate make what you know is a big mistake.

  86. Oops! What was I thinking? Of course, I play with my tits. Every day. I can barely keep my hands off myself. And I love nothing more than having pillow fights with my massively-titted friends while wearing nothing but a lacy pair of knickers. Well, sometimes we wear basques, thigh-high stockings and stilletoes, but that's only when we're being modest.

    (Is that better?)

  87. Heheheh

    As an ample-bosomed buxon lass meself, it is really funny to read what men think we do with them. The only time I touch mine is to make sure I don't have any lumps, or to stuff them in the bra properly so they don't look like they are overflowing.

  88. And on a more serious note: Thanks for the link to that woman's site about Chernobyl, Bitterweed. It's really sobering. The pictures of photographs left behind and the nursery were just heartbreaking. Hard to fathom having your life turned upside down like that in such a short time.

  89. (Is that better?) - lots better.

    I jest. I was glad to read that you take the view that tits are best shared though...I agree.

  90. Bitterweed

    You could really piss her off at the wedding by going on about all his previous girlfriends.... ;o)

  91. It is hearbreaking Montana. The epithet "ghost town" was never more truly applied...

  92. PCC
    Yeah, thanks, he's going to regret it. You can see it on google earth it's such a big error.

  93. Well, since the conversation's turned to tits, this ought to please everyone...

  94. BB
    Beleive it or not, hansdsome, easy going rocket scienteist as he is (really), he only had two girlfriends before he was married. Damn .

    Could make some shit up though...

  95. Thanks Alisdair

    Here's this from Eric Idle

  96. You've somehow managed to give me too much credit, people. I wasnt suggesting Ariane wouldnt want to go out because she'd be playing with her own pair, my intent was actually much worse (though tongue in cheek) - why would I *let* her travel anywhere when i had those to play with?

    I'll get my coat and register for the re-education...

  97. Thanks Montana - have just sent that to the guy who linked the first one. I'm off, have a good evening.

  98. Bitterweed: you could tell him you have this really nice American friend who would be much, much better for him...

    Alisdair: I have to admit, I laughed.

  99. BW

    I was just about to post a suggestion but Montana got there first!

    Have good night.

  100. fuckin 'ell you lot - it's tits everywhere...at least BB and Montana have got some. All I've got is two poached eggs, hardly worth playing with really.

    Jay - you are beyond the pale and should do penance. Getting your coat is not enough.

    Ex old man is driving me to airport at crazy o'clock in the morning so am staying over at his place. Its a long time since he was interested in my boobs so it's just me by myself with the eggs.

  101. Sheff - tits are like beer and there is no such thing as bad beer.

    Small breasts have their place and truth be known there's nothing finer, in the cool of a tropical evening, under the stars at somewhere like Scarborough....

  102. First signs of spring and a bit of sunshine, and all you blokes turn rampant.

    Disgusted of Yorkshire (in stilettos)

    The tory twat(s) who scuppered the 'stop the vulture bankers' bill should be sent out onto sink estates naked except for a sign round their necks which says 'my name is John Venables'. Not even worth a rope & lamppost, the bastards.

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  104. "The tory twat(s) who scuppered the 'stop the vulture bankers' bill should be sent out onto sink estates naked except for a sign round their necks which says 'my name is John Venables'."

    Couldnt agree more. By the sounds of it, the little scum were too cowardly to even openly shout "object", they got into a "little huddle" so as to make it unclear exactly who objected. They just need to have their heads smashed in sometimes, they really do.

  105. Sheff-Dunno what happened with my previous post.
    Still finding my way around!

    What i said was that i agreed with deano 30.Women with small breasts shouldn,t sell themselves short because they can still have 1001 tricks up their sleeve.I did mention something about Ann Widdecombes gargantuan chest and the dangers of suffocation it posed to men but i won,t risk going into that again.
    Plus the fact that a man with an extra small penis is likely to feel much more inadequate
    than a woman with small breasts.(with the added
    emphasis that this is not from personal experience!!!)

  106. Paul

    The image of Anne Widdecombe drowning some poor bloke will live with me for while ..


    Not even worth showing the pigs, in fact I'm sure the pigs would eject them.

  107. Evenin' all.

    Shazthewombat, well done and best wishes to number two child.

    Good luck to the daughter of PeterJ, if she's anything like her dad she'll do well.

    Jeez, princesschipchops your post of 15:36 - that made me wince. And feel a lot less fearful, actually - selfish me. Thoughts are for you.

    As for Lady Gaga, never met her, so couldn't lend an opinion either way, as to whether she's sexy or not. Although, there are some people I have never met and found very sexy.

    A lot of you seem to have it in for Arianne - don't know why, she's quite funny, I think, but Wybourne can write twenty words that make me laugh more than two hundred of her's do.

  108. "but Wybourne can write twenty words that make me laugh more than two hundred of her's do."

    Thats absolutely true. But... the Duke, wondrous as he is, isnt a cute little lady with a monster rack. While i prefer *reading* the Duke to Ariane, when it comes to ogling...


    Thats a fair point, the pigs may be insulted even by the offer. A bit like dishing up dog food to the queen.

  109. Evening habib

    " Wybourne can write twenty words that make me laugh more than two hundred of her's do. "

    Ain't dat da troof.

    I wish his Grace would reconsider his position on CiF. Smell The Coffee seems to be as upset as GIYUS is at the notion of him leaving. Ah well.

  110. Jay, baby, plenty of racks around, ain't much wit.

  111. Habib: exercising my god-given right (nay, obligation) as an American to state the obvious -- you're male, which may colour your critical faculties vis à vis Ms. Sherine. She just isn't funny (mildly amusing on rare occasions, at best) and she's not a very good writer.

  112. Jay

    Exactly. The sensitivities of the pigs are paramount in this context.

    Wonder how thauma's doing, btw, propping up the bar & watching the 6Ns.

  113. Paul

    Just thought, I'd best explain - we had a 'show 'em the pigs' thing round here a while a go for the most obnoxious politicans.

  114. MsChin

    Apologies for causing any unintentional
    distress.Miss Widdecombe is after all
    a one-woman living breathing walking
    talking bermuda triangle.And that
    is one bermuda triangle no man-or
    woman-wants to go anywhere near.
    In fact just thinking about it has
    brought me out in a cold trembling
    sweat.I need a stiff drink
    and a bit of quiet time.!!

  115. Ah, Montana, thank f*ck, the voice of reason rising above the male slavering. The woman's a crap writer.

  116. Paul

    I think I'd need some quiet time too. That woman is bloody scary.

  117. MsChin, I think the problem is that you and I don't have the right, erm, outlook necessary to appreciate her "talents".

  118. Montana, I think I'm grateful that we don't!

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  120. Hey, Montana, just realised that there is no equivalent 'eye candy' ABL on CiF for us to ogle at, even if we honed our collective female gaze. Another glaring omission for us women Guardian readers.

    And those mother's day gifts 'for the home' that the Graun is featuring - execrable.

    You're an adult, buying something for Mother's Day. What do they come up with? Buy your mum a mug: says it all, really.

  121. My husband has bought me the most gorgeous bouquet of flowers and a new "work" handbag for Mothers Day - I doubt my lad has even remembered!

    I'm spoilt rotten. :o)

  122. At least it wasn't a mug, BB.

  123. Montana- if me and Ann Widdecombe
    were stranded together on a
    desert island i would rapidly develop
    a deep and meaningful relationship with
    my right hand.

    No amount of viagra or anti-freeze could
    help me stiffen my resolve with that
    woman.Trust me the myth that a bloke
    can shag anything is just a myth.
    And if Ann Widdecombe does serve any
    purpose at all it is in providing the proof
    that it is just a myth.

  124. medve - the fallout came as far as Ireland, I think, but Belarus suffered the most.

    The Bidisha thread has taken nearly 6 hours to crawl up to 150+ comments and Waddya's almost at 300. Says a lot about CiF these days.

    Kate Millett's Sexual Politics is my new bedtime reading so I'm off to my bed. Night.

  125. Well, MsChin, would you think less of me if I admitted to a bit of a crush on Monbiot?

    Nice, BB. I tend not to expect anything for Mothers' Day. Last year, I did get a homemade card and a little flower that he'd planted in a pot that he'd painted at school. I've actually manage to keep the plant alive, nearly a year now (our Mothers' Day is in May), but it has become this vine-like thing, has never bloomed again and doesn't look like it's anything that ever will bloom again.

    It has just occurred to me that, of the four teachers he has had, the two that helped the kids make Mothers' Day gifts were the two that are childless. The two that have children did nothing with their classes. Odd.

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  127. Ah, but Paul, what would you do if you were stranded on a desert with Ariane Sherine?

  128. Mother's Day? I remembered, honest I did. Good job the Trafford Centre is a stone's throw from where I live.

  129. LOL at paul - you will be having nightmares about anne widdicombe tonight! :o)

    Montana - that is odd. Here it is only in infants school that they do stuff for Mother's Day - by the time they get into juniors, age 8 to 11, the serious schooling starts and there is no time for frivolity :p

    Habib - you are going to be in doggy-doo-doo if you go home empty-handed...

  130. BB I'm always in doggy-doo-doo land where my mum's concerned, and being home would be a good place to hide - she don't come around here no more - but I'll buy her something nice before I see her tomorrow. It won't mean much, I guess, but I'll buy her something nice.

  131. There was a great poem for Mothering Sunday in today's Times, by John Hegley:

    To a wonderful mother
    with wrinkly skin,
    this card was concocted
    by one of your kin.
    I hope that you like it
    it's specially for you,
    I've sprinkled some glitter
    on top of some glue.
    I don't like the bought ones
    I thought you should know,
    they're too superficial
    and two quid a throw
    some of them.

    My mum usually settles for 'virtual flowers' (google them) on Mothering Sunday but woe betide me if I ever forget her birthday.

  132. Oh, pooh. Lavartis, I forgot to welcome you earlier. Doesn't mean I'm not glad you're here -- just means I'm a putz.

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  134. Montana-Ariane is attractive but
    a bit young for me.I,m in my 40,s and
    wouldn,t want to be mistaken for her
    dad-even on a desert island.

    BB-With regard to Ann Widdecombe it
    wouldn,t be the stuff of nightmares but
    more like a near death experience!

  135. hi All

    Google account collapsed again. Trying my luck

  136. Shef are they on toast or on chest?;)

    In the interests clarity you understand!

    Welcome to Paul.

    You can't say we don't have eclectic tastes here! From Adam Smith and Chernoble to tits (!) with Lady Gaga on the way.

    Happy mothering Sunday! (pedant alert!)

    Jay, were you bottle fed?