24 September 2010


Therefore search and see if there is not some place where you may invest your humanity.
-Albert Schweitzer


  1. @MW:

    That’s an interesting picture. Anyone in mind when you were choosing it…?

  2. Swifty - caution young friend, les grande dames do not take jest lightly. Your eyes are at risk of a poking...

    btw - which do you think the witch?

  3. Car crash thread alert, apparently all the men on here are oppressing all the women every time they have a sausage, or something...........

  4. Don't tell me I've worked it out. It's the one with the beard.

  5. @deano:

    I don’t think either of them are “witches”, mate. But given the running gag about the sexpat being a bloke from Scunthorpe, I’d say the dumpy little article in the frock on the right would be her.

  6. Thanks Dott

    "...Adams uses the idea of the "absent referent" to explain her theory: "Animals are the absent referent in the act of meat eating; they also become the absent referent in images of women butchered, fragmented, or consumable..."

    Quite put me off me toasted fruit teacake. It really is beyond comment.

    But this Upton Sinclair online book is well worth a bookmark and subsequent read if you (ain't alreday read it) want to know about the meat trade.

  7. Dot - jesus christ. Car crash? Thats enough to close the entire road network.

  8. Here is another take on the meat trade A Busby Berkeley Classic

    I plead innocence on account of coming across Busby at puberty.........

    Well that's me away for the day.

    Today I shall mostly daydream of choreographers and chorus girls....if only the careers teacher at school and taken me seriously my life might have been so different.

    Jay Sorry we won't get to meet this time around. All the very best with your finals. hope to read that you get a first .

  9. Cheers Deano, first is nigh on impossible, but a 2.1 is all but a formality, i have 85% of my marks already. Hopefully be along to meet up in Nov though.

  10. Nina Power's cheese omelette recipe -

    2 eggs
    2 teaspoons butter
    dash of cream
    1/4 cup shredded Cheddar cheese

    And bish bosh, there you have it - 4 'feminized proteins' on a plate. bon appetit

  11. jamieoliver,

    nice one.

    Fair play to her though, she's come down BTL and dare I say it, shown a keen sense of humour.


    you've got mail.

  12. morning all!
    ooh, Jay, when finals? good luck, pet...

    it's still reasonably early for me, but i have just managed to do an online meeting without dozing off, so am pretty sure i'm awake.

    haven't got the faintest shred of an idea what nina power is on about.

    'absent referent'?
    she's just making up words...

  13. That's Gillray at the top, right? love those old cartoons...

  14. interesting piece up from Tim Skellett

  15. Duke, brilliant post on the meat 'n' feminism thread!

    Skellett thread is good too ... predict some fireworks! Montana, your response to it would be good.

  16. Afternoon all

    Recipes and dating games.Pure bliss!

    @thauma-ithought that too but i'm keeping schtum.

    @Jay-forget to say good luck with your exams yesterday.

    @MartyninEurope-lovely new photo of you on cif.I really must get round to putting mine up.

  17. Swifty

    That’s an interesting picture. Anyone in mind when you were choosing it…?

    Why, I don't know what you're talking about!

    Flying visit as I get ready for work -- wish I could read the Misogynist Meat & Skellett threads before they've run their course.

    Hope you're all having a great Friday.

  18. deano

    FWIW I think the tall lanky one who looks like a man in drag could well be a certain person who feels deep empathy for the worlds disadvantaged and dispossessed.And as for the short rotund stunner i,m getting both a hellenic and iberian vibe so i'll have to come back to you on that.

  19. @Paul:

    Nah, kiz is tall and slim, I’ve met her a couple of times when she's been over here.

  20. TimSkellett
    24 September 2010 1:39PM

    And having seen Guardian Cif modding in action over a long time, their rules seem consistant, fair and clear.

    Clearly deluded. My fucking strimmer has seized up. Arse.

    : (

  21. @Swifty

    That's reassuring; I had them that way round in my mental image.

  22. Turm - I know, that gave me a bit of a WTF turn.

  23. swifty

    Nah, kiz is tall and slim, I’ve met her a couple of times when she's been over here.

    What's Kiz got to do with the price of fish.You've lost me.

  24. @Paul:

    OK, my mistake, I thought you mentioned the "hellenic vibe" with reference to the fact she lives in Greece.

  25. peterbracken
    24 September 2010 2:13PM

    Jay's alright, brusselsexpat - I'll find the generosity of spirit to accommodate anyone in the demeaning position of grabbing a semi-worthless distance-leanred OU degree and living with his despairing mum while he chivies away at it.

    Can't be easy, nor fun....good luck to him.

    What a wanker.

  26. @turminder:

    "...What a wanker...

    Christ, he sure is.

    And Peter Bracken's no better.

  27. Hmmmm, Isn't it a little ironic that the Guardian thread about Internet Community and whatnot rapidly descended into a rip into Jay fest, led from the front by the G Staff and regulars???

    Still, at least they tried......

  28. Hi All, I've been wanting to post something on the Mode 4 WTO proposal somewhere that can have comments. Am I mad to be concerned about this?

    For example this is a comment lifted from SocialistMike/CiF:

    In future corporations will be allowed to bring in their employees from anywhere in the world to take over local contracts. The new policy would allow, for example, an Indian company to bid for rubbish collection services and to import its own (much cheaper) workforce to do the job. This wouldn't be counted as immigration - it is a corporate transfer of workforce.

    And here is a link:

    We must face up to divisive challenges

    I was vaguely aware of this as it has been mooted for some time but with the on-going trends who knows what will happen. It basically means any corporate can use a service contract to undercut locals, paying the staff in their home country, providing accommodation etc so the actual pay rate is not transparent.

    Sorry if this is a downer for Friday.

  29. He's just bitter because Jay parodied him to perfection.

    Finished work for the week now - yay!

  30. "the Guardian thread about Internet Community and whatnot rapidly descended into a rip into Jay fest,"

    Rip into? He's being flirted at from all sides. As an absent referent, naturally.

  31. Gillesboy

    Well, it depends on what your experience/definition of flirting is, I suppose.

    Am not sure I'd call it that, but then my experience of being flirted with is, admittedly, quite limited!!

  32. "Am not sure I'd call it that, but then my experience of being flirted with is, admittedly, quite limited!!"

    In that case you'll have to trust my lifetime of experience: they're flirting.

  33. Perhaps we should keep Jay's latest effort here for posterity...

    "Confidence is an aphrodisiac, Jess.... When a lady sees a finely dressed man bearing down on her in fine Italian linen, she is instantly aroused. On closer inspection, she notices the Rolex, the finely combed hair, the impeccable manner and unmistakable gait of the military man. She stands quivering at the pur of his throbbing motorcycle, entranced by his effortless control of 1000CC of raw power....."

    [extract from Bracken - the Man, the Myth]

    Jay has that Swiss Tony touch down to a T.

  34. Turminder

    I think Jay's perfectly capable of handling the Major.Thought they had a love-hate relationship so i'm surprised PB got that personal.

    Hi James

    Just look in the mirror every morning and tell yourself you're the bees knees.The rest should fall into place automatically.:-)

  35. Cheers Paul,

    Although I do perhaps fear that my flirting days are well behind me (all two of them!)!


  36. The funny thing is that CiF is morphing into the Daily Mail. Not ideologically, but in how it builds up readership/views.

    The Daily Mail knows that a few articles on immigrants eating your grandchildren, Kerry Katona doing anything and pooftahs running the BBC and they're guaranteed an avalanche of comments and views. It's the ITA, Irritate To Activate, model of traffic building.

    Far from seeing anything wrong with the more looney reaches of identity politics, what we're seeing under Natalie's stewardship is a natural extension of Seaton's tactics. The more divisive, extreme or just plain dumb (see today's pearl), the better it works for driving comments/views.

    For the BBB radfem-industrial complex, it's a green light for more of the same shit. For Natalie, it's how she pushes traffic above Seaton's undeniably successful levels.

    So far, the formula seems to be more Europe, more antagonistic identity politics articles. It's not edifying, but just like over at their mirror image at the Mail, it'll probably be successful.

  37. RapidEddie

    Yeah, now that the GMG is haemorrhaging money, it's all about the page hits, and that's going to consist of the crowd-pleaser/crowd-pisser-offer paradigm, in rotation, ad infinitum.

    Nuance, integrity, solid journalism and whatnot, them's for the suckers!!

    We have now officially entered the age of the liberal/right-on/sandal chic circle-jerk, and it aint going to be pretty.....

  38. Also, just so you all know, we're now officially a moderated blog here at the UT, because, well, because Tim Skellet says we are...

  39. @James:

    "...we're now officially a moderated blog here at the UT, because, well, because Tim Skellet says we are..."

    Well, technically he has history on his side. MW deleted BillP’s contributions (and I think banned him? It’s a tad hazy) wa-a-a-y back in the mists of time… and scherf did similar with one (or more) of the sexpat’s wilder posts, I think.

    Oh, and anonymous posters are also disallowed, which in itself is a form of moderation maybe?

  40. Rapid Eddie and James

    I broadly agree with you both.Yet we all still hang on to the hope that the Guardian will one day revert to doing what it should be doing.

    There is certainly a gap in the market for a good quality Left wing national newspaper.Although as the Independant is struggling as well there may not be the demand at present to make any new newspaper economically viable.

  41. Swifty

    (I have heard that way back when, there were one or two deletions, but as an average of deletions:comments made, it must equate to something in the 0.00000's range*.....)

    Anyway, my point was more that Mr Skellet, with his eleventy-twelve years of internet forum experience, saw fit to pronounce on the UT's moderation policy, without, to the best of my knowledge, ever having been here, or indeed, even knowing which site Thaum was referring to!!

    *Oh whatever works, mathematically!!

  42. Paul

    "I broadly agree with you both.Yet we all still hang on to the hope that the Guardian will one day revert to doing what it should be doing."

    I get what you're saying (and again Kudos to you and Leni et al for your efforts there), but, tbh, I think they are doing what they (think they) should be doing, in which case, it's fubarar!!

  43. @James:

    I didn't get that sense from what he said, personally. I thought he actually made an interesting point, in reply to thaum's comment. Here's what he said:

    If someone joined and started posting child porn stuff on here, or rape porn, or violent porn, or links to Combat 18, or any of the other unsavoury stuff we all know is "out there", would the "we don't have no moderation round here" rule apply?

  44. Also, swifty, I seem to recall someone saying that someone was asked to leave (as opposed to being banned), although, again, it was way before my time, so couldn't say for sure....

  45. @James:

    That's odd. The quotation disappeared...

    "so I am going to point out that almost all boards that claim to be unmoderated are in fact moderated, even if only lightly."

    See if that "takes"...

  46. Swifty

    I remember him saying something like:

    'Any board that claims to be unmoderated, is, in fact, moderated, even if only lightly'

    which, I sort of felt was a bit of a leap, and slightly arrogant, especially given his 'actually, given my years of experience....' type responses on the rest of the thread!

    Anyway, as to your question, I'm not sure.

    I do think there's a difference between moderation and 'housekeeping' though, and think
    that there's an important distinction to be made!!

  47. *check my super-powers of memory!!!

  48. @James:

    Ah here it is, way before your time (May last year) but still...

    Message to BillP

    Okay, you win. Is that what you want to hear? Well, I'm not afraid to say it. You've ruined this place and I hope that makes you happy. Until you popped up, this place had been doing nicely. But you are an ugly, sick, self-absorbed and probably very dangerous little fuckwit. You claimed a couple of days ago that you would leave and never come back if I just told you that you are banned. I said nothing because I thought if we ignored you, you would get bored with us and go away. My patience is gone. Well, you're getting your wish, Billp. I am hereby telling you that you're banned. I'm begging you to fuck off somewhere else. Call me a hypocrite, whinge that I'm squelching your right to free speech. I couldn't care less.


    Now, BillP was a cock, no doubt, and when the Phonebooth was active he got mightily slagged off, but I think that counts as moderation, at least in esse.

    Didn't bother me then, doesn't really bother me now.

  49. Swifty

    (good archiving skills there)

    I can't really comment on that in the sense that I wasn't around and whatnot, but is there a difference between being asked to fuck off, and being 'fucked off'/banned/moderated by someone else with a flick of a hyper-switch, or however it's done!?

    (I'd argue the first is more a community/social pressure/acceptable behaviour type thing, rather than moderation per se...)

  50. James/Swifty

    I think a certain amount of informal moderation at least is inevitable even here.After all we do a certain amount of 'policing' amongst ourselves.

  51. @James:

    "...(good archiving skills there)..."

    Cheers, it was a tricky one, what with it being so well hidden and all...

    Anyway, we've been through all this at various points, I think, and we were at that point a house somewhat divided, deano was (and still is) pretty much an advocate of the "let it all hang out" approach, the rest of us were at various points along that spectrum, but generally supportive of MW's stance, I think.

    But FWIW, I don't think there's a difference between what MW said in that instance, and the magic "ban hammer".

  52. @Paul:

    "...I think a certain amount of informal moderation at least is inevitable even here...."

    So do I. And so, seemingly, does Tim Skellet (in general, not specifically about the UT - thaum never mentioned it, he never referenced it).

    James maybe doesn't, though?

  53. Afternoon gents & sheff. I'm back from Jock-land. What have I missed ? Anything good ?

    BTW, still wrangling with my conscience which pub to go next Sat. Town centre ones are shitholes, but near the station. Final decision tomorrow - we can always move venues.
    Speed-read through the last couple of threads - Paul, would be a pleasure to meet up old chap !

    Anyway, flying visit, off out again 'til small hours.

    Giggity giggity !

  54. Hehehe

    24 September 2010 4:47PM

    "If you have to resort to personal abuse in a debate I believe you have lost the argument."

    get fucked fatso

  55. This comment has been removed by the author.

  56. hey thauma - you coming next sat ??

  57. Were you the other recommend then Thauma?

  58. @BW:

    I stuck a photo of The Dave Rawlings Machine up on the UT Photo Gallery for ya - they were fucking brilliant...

  59. Bitterweed

    Good to see you

    ps-Now fuck off shitcunt!


  60. (apologies if this is a double post)


    Yeah, I've seen a bit of 'self-moderation' on here, either spontaneously or after requests for it (and for the most part, I think it works fairly well), and I think it's very different from 'actual' moderation.

    Obviously, you then have to consider issues such as peer pressure/prevailing view/toeing the line or whatever, but, from my experience here, I think we tend to walk the 'I've had a bit of a think about that, and decided it was wrong/offensive/out of order':'actually, I'm going to stand by that, despite any reaction to it' line quite well!!

  61. Re moderation. If we started getting spammed, I doubt anyone would object to that being deleted. Spam is the only thing I've ever reported on Cif.

    Apart from that, the only thing I would delete would be a post where someone else's personal information is revealed without their consent.

  62. Hey, cheers SB ! I had a great time too - met a couple of bands that were just mind-blowingly good - got another gig with one of them soon, which is ace. The other lot have got the most gifted young guitarist I know of playing with them. Great, great weekend !

    Sounds like you'll miss the next get together, shame boyo. next time eh ?

  63. BW - yes!

    Dott - yes!

    James - agree, I think the self-moderation works pretty well.

  64. Paul
    Like it centurion, like it !


  65. Swifty

    "So do I. And so, seemingly, does Tim Skellet (in general, not specifically about the UT - thaum never mentioned it, he never referenced it).

    James maybe doesn't, though?"

    Self-moderation, yes (see above), informal moderation, possibly, but then we probably need to define terms a little.

    If it's only a kind of 'if I say this, maybe everyone will go mental, and rip the shit out of me' definition, then perhaps, but that's as much a personal choice as anything, I'd argue.

    If it's a kind of 'if I say this, it'll get deleted anyway, so I'll just not say it/say it a different way' type thing, then no, I don't think there's informal moderation here.

    If though, it's somewhere in the middle, then I suppose there's a debate to be had....

    (in my opinion though, obviously!)

  66. @BW:

    Yeah, it’s a shame – not to worry though, plenty of opportunities in the future, no doubt. And enjoy the gigging – I’ve got a beardy-weirdy folk club "gig" this Sunday, as it happens…

    ♪♫♪There’s no [Em] beginning to the story… Bookshelf [Bm7] sinks into the sand…♪♫♪

    Good weekend, all.

  67. Thanks Pip, Paul, Turm, should be fine, if i can just stop weeping long enough to revise, Bracken crushed my goddam world today but, alas, life must go on...

  68. James/Swifty - billip always said that he would leave if he was asked to.

    To his credit when Montana asked him to fuck off he did,and he never returned (as far as I know and at least not in 'billip' guise)

    The 'anon' position is not closed - witness that we currently have someone who has registered anon as blogger name and as far as I know there is nothing to stop anybody else registering anon1 anon2 etc.

    What was removed was the opportunity for lots of different posters to adopt the universal anon moniker since it just created massive confusion. We had a mad weekend where several and few started posting under the anon label and it was just crazy since you couldn't work out any continuity of posts at all - it was just a nonsensical chaos.

    There have been a very small number of deletions,(probably less than 10 in nearly 19 months that I know of) and all for well intentioned reasons and they have been publicly acknowledged and not done secretly as far as I am aware.

    Most of them have been done by others (not Montana) who were given admin rights when the place started.

    The UT site has developed and matured and is now for all practical purposes as moderation free as it is probably possible to get.

    In the final analysis anybody who uses a google sign in can delete their own posts (self moderation) I don't know about the option for other methods of logging in here

  69. Hi Jay - can I add all the best too. Some serious flirting going on in your direction on the Skellet thread. PBrax is just jealous.

  70. Many thanks Deano,

    "The UT site has developed and matured and is now for all practical purposes as moderation free as it is probably possible to get."

    That is, I think, what I was trying to say, only you used about a thousand less words, and made infinitely more sense!!


  71. I've been put in the spam bin.

    Montana or someone will dig me out in due course.

    This is something blogger has only recently started doing James - it's not policy and is thus far beyond the control of our hostess...

  72. deano
    Inexplicably random moderation ? CiF's been doing it for years ! You coming down south old chap ?

  73. When I'm dug out by somebody/anybody with admin rights my post will be reinstated in the correct chronological position.

    We can't work out why or how the blogger system selects/nominates a post as spam?

  74. Yeah, I've noticed the new spamalot approach.

    More than a little annoying.

    (Fuck you google!!)

  75. BW intending to comrade - be good to enjoy your excellent company again.

    Good to read you had a good tour.

  76. It was great cheers D, and likewise. Looking forward to blowing the froth off a couple again !

    Off out now, see youse laters.

  77. Hi Deano, restored your post and also one by IanG from around 14.40 or thereabouts.

  78. Cheers Sheff. I have stayed well away from that thread - quite a bizarre one. Interesting article though.

  79. Yes, the zero moderation thing is actually impossible, all you can do is keep it down to a minimum.

    If, for instance, as has been said, someone posted a child-porn link, leaving it up would put those reponsible for the blog in an extremely dodgy legal position.

    So all you can aspire to is to moderate as little as is humanly possible.

    Trolls generally get bored and move on if you ignore them, but there are some exceptions. I think if one is genuinely spoiling things for everyone else, they should be expunged, but IMO, that should be a shared decision made by the majority, not one person's initiative.

  80. IanG's is well worth reading!

    Deano, I've deleted one or two posts on here but only at the author's request - they couldn't as they'd not signed in with a Google account or summat.

  81. Thaum and IanG

    Hope you don't mind if I repeat it here:

    Hi All, I've been wanting to post something on the Mode 4 WTO proposal somewhere that can have comments. Am I mad to be concerned about this?

    For example this is a comment lifted from SocialistMike/CiF:

    In future corporations will be allowed to bring in their employees from anywhere in the world to take over local contracts. The new policy would allow, for example, an Indian company to bid for rubbish collection services and to import its own (much cheaper) workforce to do the job. This wouldn't be counted as immigration - it is a corporate transfer of workforce.

    And here is a link:

    We must face up to divisive challenges

    I was vaguely aware of this as it has been mooted for some time but with the on-going trends who knows what will happen. It basically means any corporate can use a service contract to undercut locals, paying the staff in their home country, providing accommodation etc so the actual pay rate is not transparent.

    Sorry if this is a downer for Friday.

  82. PS JayReilly good luck and best wishes.

    Assorted boozers and socialites - ditto.

  83. Atomboy - when you turning up to one of these shindigs?

  84. Thaum

    I would love to, but obviously if you met me, I would have to kill you all or put you on extraordinary rendition aircraft to secret prisons.

    Or drug you or make you so drunk that you forgot.

    Or do the Vulcan mind-meld and wipe your brainz.

    Or send a hologram.

    Yeah, I'll give it some thought...

  85. Hello everybody

    Massive cold front arrived here very suddenly.

    Re IanG 's post. I remember several years ago when the second Severn crossing was being built the French company brought in their own workers.

    Will see if I can find something on it.

    Not only do these measures take away local jobs - and profits from UK - but the danger is that the people 'imported' will be paid at their own local rate and probably be 'housed' in substandard properties. (Not speaking of French workers here - they know how to stand up for themselves!)

    Interesting things happening in Greenland. Developing oil fields. Companies bringing their own workers (thousands). Concerns around flooding small local towns with foreign workers (men mostly ) means that seperate towns are being built for them.

  86. Hi Deano

    glad to see you back on form. x

    Where's our Jenni ? Anyone heard from Hank lately ?

  87. Atomboy

    Or drug you or make you so drunk that you forgot.

    Frankly, I don't think you'd actually have to expend any effort on that.

  88. Leni, (& IanG)

    It's the US Army/Haliburton/'Outside contracting' model that was successfully tried in the recent Mid-East/Afghanistan adventures (and previously in Panama/Saudi Arabia).

    You create a little piece of home in a foreign land, build a wall (economically, metaphorically, and physically) to separate you from the natives, then ship in all your home comforts - MacD's, Pizza Hut, Ammunation and whatnot), and then you get to repatriate all profits, whilst also simultaneously taking the 'host' country for a ride.

    Job's a good 'un!!

  89. Evening all

    That "Vegetarianism is Feminism" thread is beyond parody, it really is. And people wonder why some feminists get the piss taken out of them? They give us all a bad name...

    P-Brax having a little hissy-fit again I see. OU degrees "worthless" eh? Uh-huh.

  90. Hi Leni - Jenn is an OU student too so since exam time is in the offing I guess she'll be busy with the revising?

    Ain't seen Hank/Medeve/gandolfo for a while now

    BB it's not only Carry on Matron that does it for me.....you delightful dancing of a week or so ago:


    ... lit a slow fuse.

    Came to me this very morning out of the blue so to speak. Blow me down if that ain't a Busby Berkeley I thought......



    Cooking calls

  91. Good luck with the exams Jenn - if you call by

  92. Hahahaha! Busby Berkeley! :D Never thought of it like that.

    Yes, good luck Jenn and Jay with your exams. And fuck Peter Bracken. I have a great deal of admiration for the stamina, determination and sheer bloody-mindedness it takes to do any kind of adult learning.

  93. That's very "Come on, Vogue", Deano!

    Good post by IanG. Where are the jobs going to come from for the scrounging poor when they keep giving them away for a fast buck?

    I despair for anyone trying to get by on low/no income in this fucking greedy world. Be a crim'. You know it makes sense.

  94. Well, technically he has history on his side. MW deleted BillP’s contributions (and I think banned him? It’s a tad hazy) wa-a-a-y back in the mists of time… and scherf did similar with one (or more) of the sexpat’s wilder posts, I think.

    Hi folks! Just to set the record straight, Swifty, I deleted a handful of BiteTheHand's posts here and that was just one time when he was posting some vile stuff in what appeared to be a concerted attack, and it was to protect Montana (my decision, not her's, btw.) I also deleted a brusselsexpats post which revealed personal information from a private E-mail which deano immediately re-posted.

    And, incidentally, I'd do the same again (although I'm not an administrator any more). I have no moral scruples or dilemmas about what I did. Sometimes the 'theoretical' and the 'practical' clash, and it's always easy to comment from the sidelines when you don't actually have to make any sort of decision which has a concrete and often very negative effect on others.

    Anyway, thauma, re LOTR and Christine O'Donnell, I'll try that link again. It's salon.com, so if this doesn't work, search salon under tolkien. The article was 16.09. It's short but quite amusing.


  95. Evening all

    The OU is actually highly regarded.So why PeterB thought an OU degree is worthless is beyond me.

  96. Yeah, I'm not sure how or why PeterB's arrived at his thesis there either.

    (In fact, I'd perhaps even argue that an OU degree is worth more than most 'regular ones' for a myriad of reasons, but what do I know!?)

  97. That was great music, James and it's always a good time to hear a tune.

    I had a disagreement with a friend in her car today, a song came on the radio and she said it reminded her of being pregnant with her son. He's a teenager. There's no way this song is that old.

    Turns out, it is. Where does the time go?

  98. He's just painted himself into a corner Paul. He made a crass comment to diss Jay and it seems to be backfiring on him now.

    Hey Scherf - I agree that, even though there is a general "no modding" policy here, sometimes things do need taking down. I remember taking one of Bitey's down when he was posting as Job/IsItJob and making nasty comments about my son, just to get at me.

  99. Funnily enough Habib, I was just listening to that album yesterday, for mostly nostalgic reasons....

    (I also tend to think of the mid-to-late 90's as been a couple of years ago too!!)

  100. :-) James, one of the funniest lyrics ever, from "National Express":

    "It's hard to get by
    When your arse is the size
    Of a small country"

  101. Thx, BB. It's a difficult issue, and I know that you've suffered more than most from that sort of bollocks. Fuck them all.

    Here's a song for you - into the mystic


  102. Great stuff, BB - but you missed a trick, the original vid had a Busby Berkley routine, would have been nice for Deano. :-)

  103. I was never a big fan of Roxy Music, but as an 11 year old, I tolerated my mum playing them because then I got to look at the album covers!

    (And before anyone says anything, I'm a vegetarian, so there.....)

  104. Cool - Van the Man!

    Donkey's years ago I worked for a very short time with the wife of Pat McAuley from Them (and baby-sat for them once). I lost track of them when I moved away, and then heard that he had very sadly died of an asthma attack, must be more than 20 years ago now. Really sad.

  105. The "vegetarian" crack made me LOL, James. :o)

    Now, I have no idea why now, but the other day I was suddenly thinking of this, which reminded me of being an outrageous 14 year old with my smelly afghan coat.

    Still a good choon, though. Even if I grew out of both Kansas and the coat.

  106. I actually love that tune, BB, even if it does all look a bit 'Almost Famous'...!!

  107. I think our Major is a bit 'battle weary'which isn't surprising given the batterings he regularly takes.Not saying he's always been victimized or anything.I just think he would benefit from a break from blogging.

    This TRACK is probably way too cheesey for UT sensibilities but i 've grown to like it.

  108. Cheesy, Paul?

    That's just cured my 9 month mature-cheddar withdrawal......


  109. Nowt wrong with a bit of cheeze on a Friday night. That was enough though. :o)

    Oh alright then... another little slice of emmental...

  110. OK, if it's full on cheese we're aiming for:

    'Ave it.......

  111. Spike 15.03
    [extract from Bracken - the Man, the Myth]
    Life is a leetle short on LOL's at the moment, so that was lovely ;)

  112. James!!!

    That's not cheeze, that's vomit on toast! :O


    Monsieur le Grenouille - how ya doing, mon pote? Hope you are ok?

  113. Right, that's enough cheese. Try this.

  114. Not a Journey fan then, eh!?

    (And I thought that everyone at least secretly liked that song, but maybe it's just me!!)

  115. BB, my brother-in-law's uncle played in Van Morrisson's band in Belfast in the early days in the 60's (pre-Them). He's mentioned in Van's biography, and my brother-in-law met Van in Belfast airport some years ago and introduced himself and asked about his uncle (then already deceased). Van was typically taciturn and sullen but remembered Brian and was actually nice about him.

    So for Brian Rossi RIP, here's gloria

  116. Oh! cheesy music tonight - good. Thauma, look away now. Some country cheese from one of my fave albums - White Mansions

    the Union Mare & the confederate grey

  117. And these guys are who I've mostly been listening to this week:

    The Shins

  118. And this version on The Young Ones, James dexys

  119. James

    No my friend THIS is about as cheesey as it gets.


  120. @scherfig

    And Dexy's lead naturally to this...

  121. Paul - Yup, that's vomit inducing!

    Scherf - I'd forgotten about that version, cheers!!

    Sheff - If it's country and western cheese you want,this, here is all kinds of winner....

  122. Paul!!! Naughty step, no supper!

    Phew! PeterJ and Scherf rescuing things.

    Anyone fancy a bit of Terrorvision? Perseverance pays off.

  123. Scherf - nice one.

    And Jackie Wilson Said too! Neato.

    Sheff - I'm with Thaum on the C & W, sadly.

    Although I can just about cope with Emmylou Harris

    The only other country song I really like is "You're not drinking enough" sung by Don Henley. But I can't find a youtube of him doing it, so I will have to post a cover instead. Great lyrics.


  124. Big up to the keighley/Bradford massive!!!

  125. Oooh.

    Link-surfing from Geno Washington has pulled up this gem from the 70s.

    I had completely forgotten about them!

    Pick up the Pieces

  126. BB

    For me, there's a Country-folk-blugrass-gospel-spiritual 'line', that, if walked carefully, can produce some real beauty!!

    (and no, it's not Johnny Cash...)

  127. I just knew you'd choose Psalm PeterB. I had a brilliant night with Roxy Music and some acid many moons ago....

    Here's some Tom Waits/Bette Midler cheese

    I never talk to strangers

  128. We're goin' to get on, Sheff - dare I say it!

  129. Psalm is lurvely, it has to be said.

    And "Never Talk to Strangers"!!

    I don't think I have heard that for 20 years!! :o)

  130. My one claim to fame is that I once lived a couple of streets away from Roland Gift's Mum (and Paul Heaton)!!

  131. And I'm afraid I lost interest in Roxy Music after Eno left.

    But there was always this to remember.

  132. A black guy and some white guys do 'In the Midnight Hour.' Who does it best?

    wilson pickett


    roxy music

  133. Yeah, PeterJ - but even Eno acknowledged that the best of Roxy superseded him, 'Stranded' being his favourite disc.

    Still, The Bogus Man is sublime. Hat tip, sir.

  134. BB- incorrect to say ma pote I'm sure, but OK thanks ma pote! Interesting time in the froglife but wot don't kill yer makes yer stronger, etc etc . Having an email conversation which is getting on for yards long now , civilised tho ;)

  135. Wilson, without doubt Scherf.
    Paul, move over, Sheff is joining you on the naughty step for the redneck sillines.

  136. For me, it's in that order, best to worst!

  137. btw, 'Stranded' was a much underrated album. (As was Country Life and even Siren.) After that, well...

  138. A message for us all to be found here.

  139. Scherf - that song always reminds me of The Commitments. What a film!

    And the dirty old sod who really was in Wilson Pickett's band after all - can't remember the name of his character now.

  140. Am sitting the babes round at my sons and rootling through his music. Found all sorts, including some ancient Iggy Pop

    I'm bored

  141. Eno is putting himself about a lot at the moment. He collaborated on one of the choons on the new Underworld album and he and Karl Hyde did a gig together.

    Although anyone who heard any of UW's "Riverrun" stuff - the download-only EPs they started releasing in 2004 - would feel the influence.

    Like Peach Tree, for example.


    A Fangirl...

  142. Good one, sheff. Some nice images to go with this one too.

  143. Don't get me started on Eno James.....

    Now Wilson Pickett...

    If you need....

  144. Nice tunes, folks. And with this I'm fuckin' splitting, Jack. Check out the beautiful brass. Love to all.

    Otis Redding - Try A Little Tenderness

  145. Wrote a piece on why Ferry should be awared an OBE. Jessica liked it (I think). But Hannan seems to have killed it; she - like many, I know - loathes me.

    Anyone fancy a stillborn preview?

    Oh, OK then.

  146. Iggy Pop lost several million brownie points in my estimation when he started doing those god-awful ads for car insurance.

    No. Credibility. Left.

  147. If OBE's were given out for shagability, I would agree, P-Brax.

    Shame his son is such an arse, though.

  148. Would like to read your article, though, PeterB. As long as I don't need to get the dictionary out... :p

  149. Loved that video PeterJ

    just dug this out - a bootleg version of Blueberry Hill by Led Zeppelin

  150. How do you make a duck into a soul singer?

    Put it in the microwave until it's Bill Withers.....

  151. Perhaps the admiration of Nazi style struck a chord...

  152. Bryan Ferry will be 66 this year. Feel your age? Me too. The difference between him and us is that he deserves a Queen’s Award for services to music, style and professional longevity. An OBE would do fine, Your Majesty. Jonathan Ross plus a million or two others - and a fair few reading this, I venture - would share, vicariously, in the pleasure of it.

    Roxy Music. Nearly 40 years old. I can scarcely believe it. Roxy (wanted that name for my daughter, wife wouldn’t have it) macheted an irrepressible trail through the jungle mediocrity of post-Beatles pop. David Bowie tried the same but never quite pulled it off, great artist though he is. More commercially successful than Roxy, the suspicion remains he opted to follow his contemporary trail blazers, choosing the lesser turbulence of Roxy’s slipstream: more revolutionary main guard than vanguard.

    We all remember when Virginia Plain, the band’s first single, took Top of the Pops by storm. On prime time TV, Roxy unleashed a maelstrom of weird and competing harmonic textures: Ferry’s lyrical warbling, Brian Eno’s synthesized throbs, Andy McKay’s wailing sax. It wasn’t so much unconventional as out of this world. They even looked alien. But the single’s skirmish with mainstream pop and rock was but a prelude to the group’s scaling of the music industry’s citadel. That came in 1973 with the release of Roxy’s second album, For Your Pleasure. The tonal blend favoured more silk than spike than the first LP, yet it roared to and touched the musical heavens. It cast a spiritual spell on a generation of rock wannabes.

    Eno’s early departure deprived Roxy of an aspect of its genius. But Ferry was always destined to be the heartbeat of the band. And his musical range was even too big for Roxy. A solo sideshow ran in tandem with the main event until Roxy disbanded in 1982. I say sideshow but yet the best to emerge from Ferry’s seventies creative purple patch was surely The Bride Stripped Bare, which is saying something given the quality of Roxy’s first three LPs. Astonishingly, it flopped, adding insult to injury, for the disc was hewn from Ferry’s tortured soul: he’d just lost Jerry Hall to Jagger, enough to make any man weep. Two songs from the album, When She Walks in The Room and Can’t Let Go, are among Ferry’s finest compositions, especially the former with its majestic mix of folksy rock and strings. What a ballade!

  153. What you have to love about Ferry is that his style and music refuse to date. Daniel Craig recently starred in a film - Flashbacks of a Fool - that was mullared (unfairly, in my opinion) by the critics. But it would have bombed more had it not been for the soundtrack: Roxy Music’s very own song If There Is Something, recorded - get this - 36 years earlier. I have no idea how many readers have heard this elegiac paean to nostalgia but if you do one thing today, you should follow this link. Incidentally, if anyone’s still spewing over my relative assessment of Bowie, be aware he made a cover of this track and, in an unforgivable act of musical fratricide, massacred its elemental poetry.

    Of course, Ferry comes with baggage - don’t we all? - but I wonder whether the Queen might not be unduly bothered by it. First, whilst Ferry’s son, Otis, famously covered Tony Blair in purple paint whilst he was addressing the Commons, that was in the libertarian cause of fox hunting, which Elizabeth might be privately minded to applaud. And second, although Ferry himself has been roundly - and rightly - pilloried for suggesting the Nazis had a certain sartorial style, none other than Prince Harry seems to agree, if somewhat apologetically. What’s sauce for the, erm, goose, is sauce for the singer, no?

    Moreover, the honoring of this musical legend would very likely be championed at the highest political level. Ostensibly we have a change of Prime Minister. But do we, really? For David Cameron is, let’s face it, proto-Blair. A man, indeed, who wouldn’t be PM were it not for the quality of his aping of Blairism. Cameron needs to break with his image as the clone-of-Tone. And an open goal lies before him: the honoring of the father of the son who had a pop at Blair. And, on reflection, I’ve just upped the cost of it.

    Arise, Sir Bryan.

  154. @Sheff

    Nice find! And it led me to this, which is the Zeppelin gig I went to when I was at school. Seems that it cost me 60 of your new decimal pence.

  155. Peter, I'd love to read your piece on Ferry (seriously, I'm a huge early Roxy fan). Post it here. I might even rewrite it without its probable surfeit of Joycean adjectival loading, and re-submit it to Jessica under an assumed name. That might work, eh?

  156. oops! Crossover, was that you piece, Peter? Too late to respond now, considered response tomorrow, if you're at all interested.

  157. It's a hommage to a singer I adore, scherfig; love to hear your thoughts. Bear in mind, I only had 750 words and a political angle to address!

  158. "Put it in the microwave until it's Bill Withers....."

    ha ha ha ha ha

  159. PeterJ....ah those were the days. I remember seeing LZ at Shepton Mallet in the pre-Glastonbury days.

    Have been listening to some Bulgarian and Serbian pop which I love but it's so irredemably (sp?) cheesy and the videos are so awful I daren't post it on here.

    So have this instead - its Algerian

    Cheb Khaled Aicha (I may have posted it before, in which case, sorry)

  160. @PeterB and scherfig

    I was never that fond of Ferry as a singer or as a personality, but respect? Definitely. The same goes for Bowie, come to that.

  161. Habib

    Jeez man your jokes are worse than mine and that's saying something.:-)

    Remember THIS track.

  162. Habib - that's my third favourite joke, that is!

    Sheff - Quite a catchy tune!

    (But wtf is going on in the comments section...??)

  163. @Sheff: re-your link to the Joe Bageant interview. This should be a link to another take on the "Tea Party" fraud.

    BTW drop me an e-mail or phone me with your plans for the bunfight in Northampton.

  164. James

    the Algerians are very good with a tune!

    as are the Palestinians


    I'll ring you/email tomorrow. MsC and I are both going down but haven't sorted the travel arrangements yet. It'd make sense to all go down together. Thans for that link btw

  165. Why the fuck would anyone be interested in (a)Bryan Ferry (b) the Honours system or (c)Bracken's maudlin concern about who does or doesn't loathe him?

    Speaks volumes that Jess might have liked it and Hannan has yet to commission it.

  166. I was going to show off with my arabic skills, and translate that for you, but then I watched and realised that I've forgotten absolutely all of it.

    Still, it's the thought that counts, and all that!!

  167. (My above post to sheff)

    Evening Hank!

  168. Not a maudlin concern, HS. Not even a concern.

    The rest, of course, stands, not that you're in a position to judge.

  169. James

    You spoke Arabic? I wish i did. Although I've spent some time in the middle East, nth Africa etc i never picked up much.

    Am hoping to get out there somewhere this christmas/New Year but can't decide where. There are some fab (cheap) riads in Morocco but I might frighten my ex old man by suggesting I join him in Egypt where he's sneaked off for the winter and a bit of peace .

  170. I like that article, P-Brax.

    Night, Scherf

    And welcome back Hank, you lovely old reprobate. xx

  171. Hello Hank

    Are you coming to Bitters do next weekend?

  172. What am I not in a position to judge?

  173. Sheff,

    I spoke a bit, and knew the alphabet and stuff, but it was a while ago, and having not practised since, and given that I seem to only have space in my head for 1.5 foreign languages, it's looking like it might have been a waste of time.

    Still, them's the breaks!!

  174. Hi James, BB, sheff et al.

    Can't make BW's piss-up unfortunately, sheff.

  175. Bloody hell Hank...it won't be the same without you. Is it something you really can't get out of?

    Here's a lovely bit of Moroccan pop for you James

    Ena Wa'nti

  176. "Why the fuck would anyone be interested in (a)Bryan Ferry (b) the Honours system or (c)Bracken's maudlin concern about who does or doesn't loathe him?"

    Err....well, I was interested!

    If only because I had an inkling that despite our differences, Peter Bracken and I might find something we can agree on.

    I happen to be a big fan of Bryan Ferry and Roxy Music. I wasn't aware that it was a political crime to like certain types of music.

    No doubt a lot of music and songwriting is politically motivated but I'm not really interested scrutinizing all the sub text. I just like or don't like what I hear!

    Lets face it, many famous musicians and rock stars have attempted to change the world for the better through their music and insightful lyrics.

    All very laudible but they haven't made much of a difference have they?

    If their efforts were successful we wouldn't be up to our necks in the shit we are now.


    Just a thought!

  177. Hank,

    what do you remember about John McGovern as a footballer? I read that Graun's 'joy of six' article today about great footballers that were never capped by their country.

    I've always been astonished that the captain who lifted the European cup twice was never once capped by his country. I know that the Scotland side of McGovern's time had Souness, Strachan, Gemmill, Hartford, Masson etc etc but still amazing that McGovern never got a cap.

  178. chekhov

    Ferry might have turned out to be a bit of an arse (and his son certainly is) - but he did make some great music.

    You have to remember every fibre of Hank's being is northern soul...once you know that...

  179. Jimmy Case, too, Duke, 3 European Cups, hardest shot ever and never capped.

    Have a bit of Beck, people, because it's all gone quiet over here.

    (Recommended by a damn good friend)

  180. I read the JoS, Duke, and enjoyed your post about Chic Charnley. We never got to see him down here but his reputation travelled.

    McGovern was always the whipping boy on the terraces, but Rob Smith did him justice today. He was a clever player who did more off the ball than on it, and he was the prototype in a way for Makalele, another player who won a helluva lot of trophies and was only valued when he wasn't there.

    Big Forest fan as well. Still does the co-commentary on BBC Nottingham.

  181. Not just Northern Soul, sheff, sometimes it's Northern soul filtered through The Jam


  182. Hank,

    I thought as much about McGovern's position although I'd always assumed Martin O'Neill played that role. I was vaguely aware of McGovern but as he'd never actually played professionally north of the border and never been capped he'd never really registered.

    I'm going through a navel gazing phase at the moment as far as Scottish football's concerned. I think it's a mix of not living at home and us being absolutely shit at our national sport.

    It's why that article chimed with me today, especially about Ralph Milne. Milne resonates with me in the way that when I was a kid, the visits of Dundee Utd and Aberdeen used to put the shitters up me much more than Rangers visiting. Rangers were absolutely crap then and the real rivals for the title were Dundee Utd and Aberdeen. I always associate Alex Ferguson with Aberdeen first and Man Utd second.

    Scottish football was the dogs bollocks then. You only had to look down south to see you couldn't win the title without at least three jocks in the side.

    I've just finished Dave Mackay's autobiography, great read apart from the Derby days ;) and the only man on the planet who Kenny Burns would have shit it from.

  183. And this is still a great and relevant song...