01 September 2010


Peasant girls near Kirilov, 1909 - Sergei Mikhailovich Prokudin-Gorskii
How my acheivements mock me!
-William Shakespeare


  1. How my acheivements mock me!
    -William Shakespeare

    Gah! Shakespeare, and his one liners.

  2. Good morning/afternoon/evening/night everyone.

  3. Good morning

    Article here in the Graun - surge in enquiries made to the CAB about disability & other welfare benefits, since the election.

    "The latest survey, which found bureaux dealt with more than half a million problems regarding benefits in the months after the election, is a snapshot of emerging concerns in the three months from April this year. Welfare tops the list and there were double digit increases in people facing issues around rent arrears, domestic violence and homelessness.
    ... ...
    There were also "very significant increases in problems with priority debts" - where nonpayment could result in losing a home, having fuel supply cut or a court ordering a bailiff to take goods".

  4. *** Trigger warning

    Sick buckets are required for the Blair interview by Martin Kettle.

    There are some cracking comments BTL, though:

    1 Sep 2010, 8:49AM

    When I opened the page and saw the picture of Blair I dared to hope for one glorious moment that he merited such a large snap because he was dead.

    The life sentence he deserves would have done. Oh well. maybe next time...

  5. Kettle and Blair, now there's a vomit provoking pair that are just made for each other.

  6. Mornin' ;)

    Just finished reading down yesterday's thread.

    Sitting here with a snotty nose ......still....

    Blues to drive the blues away and get the morning started:

    Big Bill

    Too, Too Train....

    They been catchin' all o' my Poiches...

  7. Good choice of photo Montana. I have browsed the Prokudin-Gorskii archive many times, truly an amazing collection- colour photos of Tsarist Russia!


  8. Mornin' MsChin:

    "Welfare tops the list and there were double digit increases in people facing issues around rent arrears, domestic violence and homelessness"

    And things haven't even got started yet.

    I heard the 'excerpts' from Blairs 'memoirs' this morning and some of the interview with the fucker. Judging by what he's saying, he still has a drink problem as well as a reality problem. The man is calculating, I'll give him that.

  9. Mornin' Martyn, Mornin' Charles.....

    Noble Peasants one and all!

  10. Morning all. Am at work but this is the 10 year anniversary of me starting here so I am not going to kill myself today. Plus I have to go home for the afternoon due to getting windows fitted.

    Blair all over the breakfast TV. One thing just summed it up.

    He regrets the Freedom of Information Act

    He doesn't regret the invasion of Iraq.

    Blair in a nutshell. I expect to hear that he regrets the minimum wage too as that was the other good thing he did.

  11. Mornin' La Rit, Spencer, Charles, MsChin.

  12. Spencer

    He regrets the Freedom of Information Act

    He doesn't regret the invasion of Iraq.

    I read that in the Kettle piece. Apparently the FoIA makes it 'difficult' for government. Well, good!

    And he "didn't see the Iraq nightmare coming" He can't say he wasn't warned.

  13. He regrets the Freedom of Information Act ...

    Well he would, wouldn't he, since that's the one piece of legislation that gives us the right to know stuff the govt would prefer us not to know.

  14. Nearly puked when I looked at the paper this morning.

  15. Yep, could have done without seeing TB in glorious technicolour first thing this morning.

    Just heard a TB clip on R4 news - him saying something about the Lab party shouldn't have moved a millimetre from NuLab or they'd be 'uncovered'?

  16. He also 'regrets' the Ban on Hunting with dogs...

    Just about sums the fucker up.... tally ho! chaps... let's kill and maim anything that moves - humans and animals - in the name of FREEDOM FOR ALL (apart from information of course).

    Christ almighty Tone - the Devil's going to have fun with you.

  17. Who doesn't regret the banning of the hunting of former PMs, with dogs?

  18. Funny how he mentions a 'drink' problem, but not his heart problem - i.e. he hasn't actually got one. How does Cherie cope? Oh, I forgot, she doesn't have a heart either.

  19. Martyn:

    In Blair's case you'd need the demonic Hound of the Baskervilles to bring that bastard down.

  20. Christ, what a couple of weeks… anyway, if BW’s about, you get them tickets to the Rawlings gig on the 17th? Details here if you fancy it (and you should)…

  21. Can someone do a mock-up of today's Graun homepage with the title changed to

    Charged with war crimes and crimes against humanity

    I'd put it on my lavatory wall.

  22. Aye Spike I'd go with

    ICC Finds Bush & Blair Guilty on all counts. Necks to be stretched in same cellar as Sadam.

  23. Is the Daily Hate over , can I come in ?

  24. Hey Swifty, cheers mate but won't be able to make that. Did a festival on the same bill as this lot last Sunday. Great fun !

  25. Not quite Frog, great photo on the front page - that protruding left eye, the papery bags under the eyes.... the man has a sickly heart...

  26. Bitterweed:

    Cheers for that! Fair cheered me up ;)

  27. Eh up, Monsieur Frog, you've changed persona by way of renomenclaturisationing. A new first.

  28. @BW:

    That’s a shame mate, was hoping you’d be there… anyway, respect where it’s due, the NEBB have been ploughing that lonesome furrow almost single-handedly for years now, saw them play once… classy outfit, did a cover of Dillard/Clark/Leadon’s “Don’t Come Rollin’” I recall.

    Anyway, more importantly, you getting some serious gig time in now mate, or is it still “weekend warrior” stuff?

  29. Does a psycho analist have killer farts?

    Just thought I'd drop in an inane one liner, to ensure that my given reputation "precedes" me.

  30. Martyn:

    I thought the toilet humour was the preserve of our Peter?

  31. Yep, they've been going about twenty years SB, and they've got that playing round one mic thing perfectly...
    I'm the "weekend warrior" pretty much'. There may be something more substantial next year. I'm up playing in the Orkneys when that London thing's on. Going to be pretty cold and wet I reckon ;-)

  32. …I'm up playing in the Orkneys when that London thing's on…

    Sounds like fun though mate, wish I could play to bigger crowds… erm, I think. On reflection, it'd no doubt mean I’d have to start writing my own stuff rather than mercilessly nicking all the best stuff from the last 50 years of American country/folk music… oh, and be a much better guitarist, obviously.

    Taking the Dobro with you on your travels?

  33. La Rit -- he doesn't look well does he ? My first impression of him Radio4 c 1997 was of an intellectual and moral lightweight,the mentality of a Sixth Former, with all the wisdom, depth of knowledge, experience of life, that I had at that age . ie : Not Fucking Much ! I haven't seen evidence that he even has a clue about unintended consequences or Moral Hazard.

    Martyn -- google group membership/ computer sys password prob whatever, took me ages to get back,thus old name. PS you could always follow unexceptional's example and delete ... you can always keep them for waddya ?

  34. Parked from waddya

    1 Sep 2010, 11:19AM
    Contributor You won't get a rise out me today, or any day, Turminder. Turned over a new leaf. Decided to bring all my limited talents to bear on the issues, not the CiF sub-plot of sparring egos.

    And with the new me in mind, may I just say how much I enjoyed Ally's post. That cycle route into Manchester is heaven sent. Know it well.

    Dummy spat and toys out of the pram before hometime? Evens. Any takers? :-)

  35. I wonder will Bindel or Campbell be wheeled out to comment on the C4 3-part series on Operation Pentameter 2? First one aired last night, didn't manage to see it, but it's out on the torrent sites, so I'l download it later to take a look. It's a fresh opportunity to take some more kicks at Nick Davies and his assessment of the operation, so they'll hardly pass it up.

  36. @turm

    As a mincing, limp-wristed nancy boy, I couldn't possibly comment.

  37. Turm - beat me to that ! First of september and counting ... 15 miles bike to work impressive, but are there hills :) The princess did 9kms today, but hilly.

  38. Nor as a goose-stepping Castrophile !

  39. Martyn Richard Jones

    Just thought I'd drop in an inane one liner, to ensure that my given reputation "precedes" me.

    Napoleon Karamazov/Charles recently said that you are consistently one of the best posters on CiF.

    Reputations clearly vary according to how they are perceived by individuals.

    I regard you as one of the WADDYA nut-clusters.

    You are part and parcel of the kiz/bru/bracken/damntheral brigade who seem to have no real purpose or reason to comment, but keep doing it anyway.

    Is it really worth the tiny effort of typing your usual fifteen to twenty words?

    The point is, that is up to you. Nobody thinks you should either be prevented from doing so or told to do it in another way.

    However, collectively, you all cling together to protect your little WADDYA patch and hate the idea that anyone else is allowed to use it in the way they choose.

    I wonder whether Seaton and Jezza actually think of you as colleagues holding the line against the horrors of interlopers or if they think that you collectively are an embarrassment and an impediment and hindrance to making the site somewhere which people want to use.

    An audience of five or six who slap each other on the back and huddle together like the children who nobody really likes in the corner of the playground are hardly likely to pay the bills.

    Still, Bracken says he has turned over a new leaf, so maybe he can manhandle the ailing CiF into an upright posture and slap it about until it spills the beans.

    At least he stands a better chance than you.

  40. @Dave

    I'd forgotten about that.

    So to recap, a mincing, goose-stepping (it's not easy doing both at once), limp-wristed, revisionist, Castrophile nancy boy.

  41. Spike - fr inter - using the words 'colons' et 'colonies' about the West bank. I'm sure that there is another description widely used , equivalent to ' settlers and settlements' but can't remember it .

  42. SB, yep it's all dobro these days. We're going to ghave to have a jam somtime buddy !

  43. @Atomboy et al

    Can you ease off a little on Martyn? I think he posts some excellent stuff. He's firmly on the left and comes up with some highly interesting information. So what if he banters on Whaddya? So do I. I enjoy it. There's some very funny people on there and I don't want to be deadly serious all the time.

    I reckon you should save your venom for the vast numbers of Blairites, Daily Mail transfuges, racists, male supremacists, armchair warriors and Hasbara propaganda spewers that haunt the blogosphere, to name but them.

  44. @Dave

    Can't think of anything. Colons and colonies are the usual words. As an English-speaker, I think colon rather suits the average hate-filled settler.

  45. @RapidEddie

    I’m not sure they’re available, I think they're collaborating on the next big article coming up, along the lines of “this NotW cricket sting smacks of racism”… should incorporate patronising attitudes about Pakistani cricketers (“poor unsophisticated country boys… susceptible to bribery… can’t blame them for taking a bung if it means escaping the grinding poverty of the paddy fields” [NB check that’s right please subs]), inverted snobbery about cricket establishment (“claret-faced old duffers… silly ties… hidebound by tradition…”) and chuck in a bit of Murdoch-bashing as well (“gutter journalism… cheque books at the ready…”).

    It’s already a Graun winner and it hasn’t even been written yet.

  46. Martyn's OK , but sometimes does hide it well .

  47. Dave from France

    Please don't mention colons - I'm off for one of those 'oscopies' this afternoon and not looking forward to it. You also get a free colonic irrigation in the days before - which has somewhat radical effects, bit like having dysentry. Whole thing is horrible.


  48. Spike and Martyn

    I am happy to do this.

    Strange as it may seem, I take no delight in answering anyone on terms other than friendliness and attempting to clarify confusion.

    However, it seems that Martyn is backbiting both here and on WADDYA, without actually coming into the open.

    If I am mistaken, I will apologise.

    Otherwise, I shall revert to ignoring Martyn as I always have.

  49. @Swift

    In the US, I believe they have a thing called "entrapment", which is exactly what the NOTW "journalists" do all the time.

    Why is it legal in the UK to get someone who's hoping you'll do something for them to get you pharmaceuticals, for instance, and then out them? Isn't the person who asked for the charlie guilty of incitement?

    But then I suppose Murdoch has a special dispensation from the laws applied to us common mortals.

  50. La Ritournelle


    I thought the toilet humour was the preserve of our Peter?

    I'm in a plagiarising mood.

  51. Ms Chin 9.01 good link there to the CAB article, thanks , I wouldn't otherwise have seen it. One phrase there " though we may be technically out of recession" is significant. The top 30% of people may be spending away, but the bottom 30% ain't, and it's getting worse. So the headline figures are misleading , to say the least.

    There's a good economics article of general interest on the US housing equity bubble by Dean Baker , CiF America, on the Business page. Maybe the UK market won't crash as in some parts of the US, different situation, but it is in for ... decline .

    I can buy automotive parts like drive belts made by GatesUK down the road. Nils Pratley article -- the company, and the Tomkins Group which it is part of, is a lean and efiicient world-leader after years of investment and is now being flogged off cheap to the Canadian Pension Fund and a Private Equity gangster.

    BUT it is being sold for cash at far more than it is "worth' in the Stock Market . Short-term gains won again. It's all gone horribly wrong.

  52. Spike again...

    To show that I do not enjoy these attacks, Peter Bracken has said that he has turned over a new leaf.

    He has actually shown signs of this before, but it never seems to last.

    However, this time he has made a public declaration.

    If he keeps it up, why would anyone not be happy to engage with him in friendliness?

    That is quite different from expecting anyone to take sly digs without responding.

  53. @Atomboy

    OK. I haven't noticed Martyn backbiting, but then I don't always notice everything. :-) If you consider he has, perhaps you could ask him about specific cases.

    Anyway, none of my business really.

  54. Atomboy

    Martyn Richard Jones

    I regard you as one of the WADDYA nut-clusters.

    I regard you as an unmitigated, cretinous and trolling pompous cunt. But, who cares?

  55. @BW:

    Yes mate, I’d really enjoy that, had a little go on a Dobro down the local guitar shop the other week, totally sold on it, just need to raise the cash and somehow smuggle it past the eternally-vigilant Minister for War (Mrs SB to her friends) until about 2 years later “Oh this silly old thing, I’ve had this cheap guitar for ages love, don’t you remember…?”


    LOL, go on then, you’ve got that part taped, fancy a crack at the rest of it?

  56. Spike

    OK. I haven't noticed Martyn backbiting

    I just started.

  57. @Atomboy

    I'll always loathe Bracken because of his ideas, but if he manages to stay civil, that'll be a vast improvement and I'll be happy to remain polite too - attack the ideas but not the man personally. In fact that's what I did until he called me a revisionist.

  58. Martyn

    Thanks for clarifying the situation.

    Clearly, I was right and we now know where we stand.

    PS At least you formed an opinion of me. I always found that to be pretty well impossible in your case. There was never anything there.

  59. Swifty
    Other peopes' stuff ? Yeah. that's all there is lol. check out this guy. He's some kind of master of country and blues bottleneck. He's also a total gent - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10uctpUvdwE&p=1A90295777187B1C&playnext=1&index=8 . If I need a new lick I know where to get some ideas. Is it theft ??? ;-)

  60. @Atomboy & Martyn

    OK, I'll keep an eye on your coats and call the ambulance when you're finished. Just don't spill my pint while you're flinging chairs and bottles at each other. :-)

  61. It's not so difficult to be amiable, but the regular cheap shots and snide comments from the usual suspects is very boring. You'd think that people who think they have a cause would spend more time on other things.

  62. @dave from france

    Aye couple of hills, but nothing too serious. Best time 1.05, today 1.15, wind in my face all the way.

    I can't see why the cricket thing is taking media prominence when the disaster in Pakistan is still inadequately addressed.

  63. Atomboy said...


    Thanks for clarifying the situation.

    Clearly, I was right and we now know where we stand.

    For the record, you are right, more fucking right than the Daily Hate Mail. Now fuck off you gormless cunt.

  64. My brother just posted this:

    "Well, it might have been for Tony who didn't normally drink; where I come from, a gin and tonic, two glasses of wine, you wouldn't give that to a budgie." - Lord Reid's comments on TB's shock drinking revelations. This man should have been Prime Minister.

  65. The problem is that you complain about the cheap shots and snide comments without ever seeing that this is exactly what your little group does all the time and then squeals "victim!"

  66. Sheffpixie Wishing you a an uneventful colonoscopie ! We're all supposed to have 'em after the age of 50 or so, but I chickened out. Something to do with nipping off polyps early before they become cancerous. Colonic irrigation = enemas I suppose, routine stuff. A good clear-out !
    PS I'll probably haave the colo, while it's still free ...

  67. Martyn

    You see, you can post something other than your normal anodyne, invisible output.

    You are such a clever little boy when you try.

  68. Atomboy said...

    The problem is that you complain about the cheap shots and snide comments without ever seeing that this is exactly what your little group does all the time and then squeals "victim!"

    I don't have a "little group" you imbecile. I usually just try and by civil to people, regardless. Because, if not, I revert to treating people as they are.

  69. Atomboy said...

    Now fuck off, dipshit.

    Fuck off you stupid little right-wing cuntish BOY!

  70. Spike

    Regarding Martyn i have to say i agree with Atomboy.For he does make sly little digs both here and at waddya-never of course posted directly to the person he's aiming at-and then whines like a baby when he gets some comeback on it.I tend to subscribe to the old adage-'if you can't take it then don't dish it out'.


    If the above makes me an unmitigated,cretinous and trolling pompous cunt as well in your opinion then so be it.I,ve been called worse and it's water of a ducks back.

  71. @BW:

    Point taken re. “other people’s stuff”… nothing new under the sun etc. However, rather than actually playing, say, “Ruby” or “Close The Door Lightly”, I’d like to be able to come up with something similarly memorable but wot I wrote, like.

    And ta for the link, I’ll check it out later, always up for a bit of bottleneck… and yes, it is theft, and you’ll go to a special circle of hell where guitars dance around you but you’re not allowed to lay a single finger on them… Tantalus and his torments would be small beer by comparison.

  72. Paul said...

    Fuck off with your "insult me too! insult me too!" special pleading, you big girl's blouse.

  73. Afternoon All

    I see peace and love has broken out again.


    I am becoming increasingly angry re. the amount of coverage given to the cricket sacam - the floods in P seem to have almost disappeared from the radar.

  74. Atomboy said...


    You see, you can post something other than your normal anodyne, invisible output.

    You see, that's just it. There's always some arsehole who will take offence at the most "normal", "anodyne" and "invisible" of "output".

    Which is precisely what also makes you an arsehole.

  75. SB
    You can get a decent dobro for a couple of hundred, a good steel for a couple more. The other thing to do is get a cellar. Madame BW only goes down there to use the fridge and it's pretty darkly lit... all sorts of flight cases in there.... ;-)
    Will hopefully be organising an a piss-up in earkly Oct, south mids. Probably a Sat. may be we could sort something out ??

  76. Afternoon Leni:

    Ignore my comments, better still, don't read them. They ARE meant to be offensive.

  77. La Rit.. you coming ? I think Sheff's still game, will post datails here nearer the time. More the merrier...

  78. @BW:

    Yeah, could be in that, thanks for letting me know mate. I should say, weekends are precious time (family stuff awww), don’t tend to travel far without ball ‘n’ chain in tow (she speaks highly of me as well).

    Anyway, I dream of a house with a cellar for precisely the reasons you state. And because I could do with somewhere to bury the bodies, I’ve that patio up and down more times than a bride’s nightie.

  79. Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be told to go forth, be fruitful and multiply - only not in those words

  80. Right, I have to go and meet a mate who's brought me back some victuals from the Sceptered Isle. Can't remember what I ordered. Pickled eggs among others, I think.


  81. Spike -- the word was ' Territoires' ?

    Got to empty me white van now, couple of windows to pick up with my german bus-driver neighbour .


  82. Martyn

    As a small observation, forgive me if I cannot take someone seriously who actually runs off to Google "internet laughing-stock" and comes back to have a little hissy-fit and declare that Peter Bracken is not on the first page of the results, as you had been told.

    You are obviously in possession of a keen mind.

    Keen to publicly declare its inability to understand.

  83. Roger that SB, will keep ya posted. Off now. See youse around.

  84. @BW:

    PS: much as it pains me to say it mate but trust me, in the hugely unlikely event I ever had two, three or four hundred quid to spare at the end of the month, there are a thousand things higher up the collective priority list than a lovely new guitar of any stripe…

  85. PPS Yep, laters mate, and cheers again for the linkage.

    Right, that's my cue as well, then, have a nice afternoon's squabbling and rowing, all.

  86. "As a small observation, forgive me if I cannot take someone seriously who actually runs off to Google "internet laughing-stock" and comes back to have a little hissy-fit and declare that Peter Bracken is not on the first page of the results, as you had been told."

    Jeez, did someone say that of me? Missed it. But even had I seen it I'd have said something along these lines:

    'Credit where it's due; you at least present a falsifiable observation and that is preferable to the gratuitous, largely unprovable slurs that pass for comment on threads like this.'

    I know, you'll be screaming for the return of the old PB before long. Alas, he's gone. Forever.

  87. Atomboy "If he keeps it up, why would anyone not be happy to engage with him in friendliness?"

    Well to me it would depend on whether the new leaf meant his attitudes had changed, in which case great, or if he had just stuffed them back to simmer in the sack whilst he adopted a more polite tone on the surface.

    He can call me PC whatever as much as he likes but the homophobic abuse the other day just isn't something I can forget about because he is self-censoring for a bit. I have good friends who are gay - so what am I saying to them if I just forget about someone who claims to be progressive, using terms like limp wristed nancy boy as insults?

    If he had used terms like nigger and coon, what would I be saying to black friends if I just shrugged and accepted it?

    It is not as if he thought the people he was insulting were gay, but that he thought accusing them of being gay was insulting.

    If he has rethought that and realised that this is completely unacceptable in the realms of civilisation (i.e. beyond New Labour) then fine.

    But just saying he is going to watch his mouth doesn't do it for me, I am afraid.

  88. Hello Peter

    I shall watch your transformed being with intere - have you grown wings too ? x

    I have been reading about the trapped Chilean miners. Will their spirit triumph over despair ?

    it seems they are already suffering various health problems, have lost a lot of weight and some already depressed.

    It was known that the mine was unstable and dangerous before the miners were sent down. Bloody awful world we live in.

    This profit before people model has to be dismantled.

  89. peter bracken

    I know, you'll be screaming for the return of the old PB before long. Alas, he's gone. Forever.

    I doubt it, actually - in response to each of your above sentences.

    HankScorpio said, yesterday evening, something like "Peter Bracken is more to be pitied than abused."

    You will need to maintain your new, true-blue colours for some time, though, before most people even begin to believe you.

    The general line of thought is that leopards do not change their spots.

    I would imagine you will begin to get better responses all the time you can keep it up, but there is bound to be lingering suspicion.

    Of course, it also all comes under the big tent or umbrella which Martyn mentioned above.

    Who cares?

    The overriding factor is that, when push comes to shove, we really don't.

    If you or I or anyone disappears from the various blogs and discussion boards we might inhabit, we only leave an invisible, soon-forgotten hole.

    Even your slightly elevated platform at CiF is only noticed by a few people and quickly forgotten.

    The big mistake is when we imagine what we say - or how we say it - actually matters for more than a few moments to a very few people.

    So, don't get ideas above your station and it should all go swimmingly from now on, eh?

  90. Spencer

    Well to me it would depend on whether the new leaf meant his attitudes had changed, in which case great, or if he had just stuffed them back to simmer in the sack whilst he adopted a more polite tone on the surface.

    Quite so.

    I have always been too uninterested in Peter Bracken to pretend that I could be bothered to watch him like a hawk, so I won't.

    I imagine this is more a ruse, a stratagem and something in the nature of "playing a long game" as they say.

    I am expecting nothing and do not imagine I will be disappointed.

    Peter Bracken could willingly apologise as his first starter for ten.

    He wouldn't want to fall at the first hurdle, after all.

  91. This comment has been removed by the author.

  92. @BW:

    Sorry, link went wrong in previous post…

    I meant to put this up for you earlier mate… Welch/Rawlings + Old Crow Medicine Show playing “Ruby” at Grimey’s Music Store, 1604 8th Avenue South, Nashville, Tennessee.

    Thauma, look away now…

  93. Ah fuck it, here's the link:


    Copy and paste it in if you know what's good for you, mate.

  94. The London Evening Standard has some interesting excerpts from the 'Blair Memoirs'.Apparently Blair wanted to resign in 2004 but Cherie persuaded him to stay on because Brown couldn't be relied upon to continue with the 'Blair reforms'.

    Now this was widely reported at the time although the media did cheekily speculate whether Cherie's interevention was more to do with her alleged fear of losing all those lovely privileges that went with being the PM's wife.

  95. SwiftyBoy:

    "It’s already a Graun winner and it hasn’t even been written yet"

    The Evening Haemarroid beat the Groin to it yesterday.

  96. BW:

    I'm DEFINTELY coming to the piss up, especial if youse and SB are bringing instruments to serenade us all ;)

    South Mids. easy for me to get to. :)

  97. Just a quick word. Hope you all can try to avoid anything 7 - 11 October - I'm away.

  98. If you're calling for posters to apologise, atomboy, it'll just clutter the thread - yours included.

    Also, I'm not extending the hand of friendship (which I know is not sought) - merely the courtesy of civility.

    And for Spencer's benefit, no, my ideas and outlook remain the same. Which, given this site's embrace of pluralism, I know will be welcomed by most.

  99. So still a raving homophobe Peter but being more careful to hide it in the future, is that what you are saying?

  100. PeterB:

    What did you decide to change?

  101. peter bracken

    There is a difference between you landing here spewing bile for no apparent reason and people responding to it and asking you to apologise for your homophobic attack as a separate entity.

    However, you are rehabilitating yourself and it is better if you are left to decide your own course of action in that path and to determine your own comfort-zones, as they say.

    So, it only boils down to adopting a new civility and allowing your opinions and standpoints to remain obdurately the same.

    It could even last.

    Not that interesting, though, since we probably know your position on most things and can construe that it will not change.

    I'll just add you to the list of people to ignore, then, and won't bother to read your future posts, other than by accident or if they are explicitly and unavoidably aimed at me.

    Back to normal, really.

  102. A gay couple rent my flat in Manchester. You need to judge me by my actions, jennifera. 'Mincing', limp-wristed' - they're pretty innocuous terms, anyway. Calling a woman a bitch doesn't make the caller misogynistic, does it?

    That said, I agree none of the above are conducive to civilised discourse.

  103. Well at least David Milliband is assured of our Dave C's and our Tone's support for the cretinous, ruinous, Nu-Lab project.

    I can see where all this is going, there won't be a mass crossing of the floor from Lib Dem to Labour, just a revolting virtual crossing of the floor from Labour to the Tories....

  104. Can I just say.... I cannot stand that little, slimy, war-loving, daughter-in-law of Miriam Stoppard, Oona King. She's revolting.

  105. Oh you have gay tenants then Peter (that is a twist on 'some of my best friends are') well done you.

  106. I am not 'rehabilitating' myself, atomboy. Also, my opinions do not seem obdurate to me. They seem, well, held, I guess.

  107. But I really do, Jennifera - for three years now. No surprise, really - the flat's just off Canal Street.

  108. I am not calling you a liar Peter I am calling you a hypocrite.

    I believe you have gay tenants and I also believe you would not dream of calling them limp wristed, nancy boys and then try to explain to them why it isn't homophobic.

  109. >>the flat's just off Canal Street.

    ..and why it's rented, you wouldn't want to stay there now eh?

  110. @Dave

    Territoires (occupés) simply means the occupied territories.

  111. Right, I really must try and do some work. I'm finding it extremely hard to shift out of holiday mode and get back into working mode.

  112. 'noon all---!

    Can I just say.... I cannot stand that little, slimy, war-loving, daughter-in-law of Miriam Stoppard, Oona King. She's revolting.

    Indeed but she's the neice of Dr. M not the D in L......did you here about this then? also she's married to an Italian called Tiberio....nuff said......

  113. It's rented cos I live in France, turminder. You're looking for demons and there are none.

  114. Bored now PB, good luck with your new civility, I hope it brings with it the posibility that you could admit that some of your precious opinions (e.g. that Habib is thick or you are left wing) might, possibly, be wrong.

  115. Peter,

    just out of interest, what part of Manchester do you hail from? I have a couple of friends there in Chorlton cum Hardy (or Guardiansville as it's more commonly known) and Swinton (I know that's Salford). I've done a bit of work there also in the past.

    Come on, admit it you're from Didsbury aren't you? ;)

    Last time I was out in Manchester we went into Canal Street as part of the pub crawl. Some wag had scrubbed out the C and S from the street sign so it read "anal treet".

  116. Duke - 'anal street' still lives! Born in Blackley. Not quite Coronation Street, but near as damn it.

  117. Come on guys, leave Peter Bracken alone. The more you make snide comments the more I have respect for PB. Just becuase you in your opinions think that his political worldivew is the 'wrong' one, that does mean you have to resort to childishness.

    I'm just back from the Glasgow meetup at Tchai-ovna, I'm sure Duke knows it. Very charming people, great conversations, I'm a bit out of my depth certaintly but it was great anyway.

    Silverwhistle's article is up.

  118. This comment has been removed by the author.

  119. I posted on that and missed it was by Silverwhistle, thanks for the heads up, Charles.

  120. This comment has been removed by the author.

  121. For those who are interested, there may be the chance to witness the process of kizbot's apotheosis into the ranks of the CiF blessed and her ultimate receipt of the blue "C".

    From WADDYA today:

    1 Sep 2010, 3:57PM


    Could be interesting to have someone write about the Greek anarchic spirit in the face of official regulations - any suggestions...a Greek smoker? Do you smoke Kiz?

    She must be wetting herself with excitement.

    Let's hope it doesn't all end like it did with VanessaBlack.

  122. Afternoon all

    bloody links....I'll try again...

    Avaaz are calling for debt relief for Pakistan. Apparently they are scrambling to pay out 30% of their annual budget revenues to foreign creditors on debt incurred by previous dictatorships, although they'll need every penny they can get their hands on for re building and supporting the millions of people affected. Link here

    Stop the debt

    The situation throughout the country is catastrophic and they're going to need all the help they can get.

    Dave from France - others may look away.

    Very interesting experience that colonoscopy and not nearly as horrible as I'd imagined. You have the option of sedation or gas 'n air. I went for the gas 'n air as you stay alert and can watch the proceedings on a screen whilst gulping down the gas when you need to. The doc was excellent and explained everything as she went along - had a good look at everything - no obvious signs of trouble thank christ. The procedure is bit uncomfortable but no pain, really nothing to worry about. The gas 'n air is great though!!

    If your Doc's recommended you to have one - get it done! I promise you it really is more interesting than scary.

  123. Peter - new leaf duly noted. Although as you think I am ''middling'' and that I am corrupted from the tea I drink or some such (didn't really get that bit sorry) you probably don't give a flying fig what I think.

    I read through all I have missed over the last few days on the UT and it has been very entertaining I must say. Like a good soap opera.

    Re the whole Blair stuff - I haven't got the will. Literally. I feel as if I am losing the will to live - he kind of saps a bit more of my strength every time I see his face. The man looks positively evil these days. He is so vile, Telegraph has a headline crowing that Blair supports coalitions austerity package. Well thats a surprise! Thatchers greatest success supports final nail in the coffin of ''Great'' Britain.

  124. Where's silverwhistle's piece?

  125. Sheff

    glad all went well.....I'm not really that interested at looking at me insides on a screen though feels like a weird kinda out(-but in) of body experience.....but I suppose the gas helped kinda worth it just for the free buzz.......!

  126. Peter,

    one of my good mates used to teach in Blackley, North Manchester Boys School. I think it got knocked down a couple of years ago or something as he moved on.

    Three pubs I like in Manchester very much:

    1. Peveril of the Peak

    2. The Briton's Protection

    3. The Castle on Oldham Street (proper spit and sawdust).

    I daresay they've all been blinged up.


    Tchai-Ovana. That's the posh tea shop in the west end isn't it?

  127. You haven't got the will, princess? Don't look at my dig at Polly then, please.

    Charles and Paul - thanks for the moral support. Think this new garb suits me (he says with a mischievous twinkle).

  128. Cherrio furabit pals. afk til Thurs eve. p x

  129. Know the Peverill well, Duke - it's only 5 minutes (if that) from my end of Portland Street.

  130. Damn it all Peter Bracken, you can't go all furry on everyone, roll over and have your belly tickled. You've been increasing my vocabulary at a rate I hadn't seen since I was a mere toddler.

    Now what am I gonna do ?

  131. @Duke

    Three of my favourite pubs there too, from my youth and adolescence in the Great City. I might add the Circus Tavern, the Grey Horse, the Three Legs of Man, and the Jolly Angler...

  132. So you're a Mancunian PeterB - wrong side of the Pennines of course but at least you're not from the home counties...or Hampstead like me, (less than nil point). One brownie point for you.

  133. Wouldn't mind a pint down the Sloaney Pony, about now.

  134. You're originally a west ender surely Duke? Or at least you went to Glasgow uni?

  135. gandolpho

    Insides are quite interesting if a bit pink and squelchy. I did get to see my appendix which appeared to be waving at the camera. Cecal (sp?) pillars are curious. There's more going on in there than you think


    Damn it all Peter Bracken, you can't go all furry on everyone

    Want a small bet on how long it'll last?

  136. Peter don't worry I won't. I am avoiding all things Blair from now on. It is making me weep. The man is so vile and worse, so wrong. The reason New Lab has been deserted he tells us is because they ''forgot'' about aspiration.

    Oh and I thought it was because they fucked over everyone who was old, poor, working class, young, unemployed, not a banker or Russian Oligarch or seriously rich, and stomped around the world killing innocent people as Bush's right hand men - how wrong can I be?

    Hilarious comment to me on The Telegraph about New Lab saying something along the lines of Britain becoming a multicultural nightmare where 'men were fleeing to the airports to escape the feminist scourge'??? The minds of some people are truly bizarre.

  137. @Princess

    To be fair, that bit about men fleeing to the airports came from Harriet Harman herself at PMQs (see here).

  138. Princess

    Bought a groan this morning to read in the hospital - but Blair seemed to be staring out of every page and simply can't face his ugly mug so have given it to my daughter for the cats to shit on.

  139. sheffpixie -- altogether a positive experience then, good ! In our mixed system you choose public or private, same payout, but the local private 'clinic' does 'em all under general anaesthetic which I'm sure is a way of milking the system. Factory job on monday mornings. I'll try to go public. I hate the giving-away of the routine stuff to the sharks, because if anything goes wrong they whoosh one off to the public University Hospital. Which has funding problems...

    That's why I'm always interested in what happens US/UK because the same Plan operates here.

  140. Sheff - you're brave, I'd've asked for a general!

  141. Gandolfo:

    "Indeed but she's the neice of Dr. M not the D in L......did you here about this then? also she's married to an Italian called Tiberio....nuff said...... "

    I knew she was related to the Stoppard clan in some way - thank you for clarifying it! I saw the Standard article you linked to and this little offering is her latest.

    No wonder she got kicked out of the Bethnal Green constituency in a humiliating defeat - Oona seems to be under the impression that poor people drive around in SUV's parking illegally everywhere and thus they are 'disproportionately affected' not by their poverty, finding enough money to pay the rent and eat, the biggest problem the non-driving poor and pensioners face is ... wait for it .... Penalty Charge notices!!!!

    One can only wonder at her witless coeterie of minders, writers and advisors, who allowed this to go to press.

    Laugh? I nearly paid for my own beer ;0)

  142. PeterB

    New garb is wearing well. Given the info proffered above, a good deal makes sense now, although I won't offer my two penneth-worth.

  143. I know the Spotted Dog in Barking - does that count?

  144. SheffI'll wager all the gold I've got.
    Hmmmm a 9 carat useless wedding ring. Nah, might as well just chuck it onto your guardian for the cats to shit on as well.

  145. SheffP

    The older I get, the more fearful I am of medical procedures, so hats off to you. I would have had to have had a whole gobful of diazepam in addition to the gas n air!

    Very glad to hear all is well in the bowel area though.

    Gardeners amongst you - a question. Went out to water my plants this evening and what looked like snail poo appeared on my watering can - when I got in, it was still stuck to the can, went to knock it off and it started wriggling - blood red coloured, like a very thin worm, about 4 cms long? any clues?

  146. La Rit "I know the Spotted Dog in Barking"

    Is that still there?

  147. Hi Spencer:

    Not sure - used to go there regularly many years ago. It probably is the same, but I guess that it is no longer the proper spit n sawdust drinking emporium it once was.... in fact, might even schlepp up to Barking sometime and check it out ;)

  148. I think I drank it once. I grew up just down the road though. But once I got old enough to drink I mostly went up to Ilford where my hippy friends lived.

  149. This comment has been removed by the author.

  150. Spencer:

    It used to be a favourite haunt when I used to come up London to stay with my sister, when I was about 18/19 ;)

    Didn't know you were an original 'ender?? Where there really hippies in Ilford????!!!!!

  151. @LaRit Oh yeah, Ilford was crawling with them. Mostly we went to the Cranbrook. According to my Dad (warning off my older sister) it was one of the two worst drugs pubs in London.

    The police used it as a sort of convictions farm. They would sit in a panda car opposite on a Friday night watching what was going on and then they would turn a few of us over when we walked back down Cranbrook Lane. They always got a bit of blow or something - nice steady conviction rate.

    Ah, those were the days.

  152. There must have been hippies in East Ham too because the first acid I had was East Ham pink mike.

    But there were bugger all in Barking.

  153. Spencer

    Didn't think there was a hippy scene in Ilford.As a teenager i used to go to a club called 'Room at the Top' in Ilford.Plus another club called 'Oscars' which was down Newbury Park way.Doubt they would have interested you if you were a hippy but you may have heard of them.

  154. Paul, well I was a freak. I just say hippy nowadays. This was early seventies.

    I remember Room at the Top, that was pretty well no go territory for us, even if it had appealed. Tiffanys too.

    There was a club in the General Havelock a soft rock/folk club, that was where I first went.

    Back then there were not many places that would serve blokes with long hair - so we ended up gravitating to the Cranbrook, which was a dump but didn't give a fuck about what we looked like or even about the dealing so long as we bought their shitty overpriced beer.

  155. Ron Hutton who is Professor of History at Bristol, a big expert in Paganism, and pops up on the TV regularly nowadays, used to claim that the Cranbrook in that era had an aura of Byzantine decadence.

    But that was Ron for you.

  156. Spencer

    well I was a freak.

    You should have said.Ilford had plenty of them.Some of them even went to RATT.It was the hippies i was unsure of:-)

  157. Sorry, Paul. I have just slipped into saying hippies over the years. Would never have dreamt of it at the time.

    I don't remember Oscars at all though. Whenabouts was that?

  158. To be honest there were a bunch of semi-Freaks in Barking who were my older sister's friends. The first mandies I got were from them.

    But on the whole they were a bunch of arseholes. All the kids of policemen. They used to do shit like grinding up mandies and putting them in people's drinks for a laugh. People as in me.

    So I avoided them once I met some other drug addled fuckwits to hang out with.

  159. Bitterweed,

    You've got a dobro? I've been thinking about buying a national if I can find one at a decent price.

    After 25 years of trying to persuade my fingers to do things they don't want to do (I started as a bassist....), I've been playing around on an old archtop accoustic in open G and E minor tunings with a bottleneck.

    I'm not sure it sounds anything other than awful (it seems to have persuaded the mice to move next door), but it keeps me amused.

    }This is what I play like in my dreams....

    And This is what I'll play like in my dreams, if I buy a national....

  160. Peter Bracken

    I know, you'll be screaming for the return of the old PB before long. Alas, he's gone. Forever.

    Damn right I will. It was your only redeeming feature.

    If we get stuck with the same binary idiocies, but expressed in a reasonable manner, you might just achieve your ambition of being seen as a cunt....

    You could become MoveAnyMountain II - don't go there.

  161. HarryTheHorse Doing sterling work on the Blair's memoirs verdict thread.

  162. Your grace, we have similar signage japery here in Dublin. There's a DART (light rail) station here called 'Grand Canal Dock'. Pretty much every 2nd sign bearing the name has the 'C' of 'canal' obliterated or lifted.

    Grand Anal Dock. They make it too easy.

  163. I used to work for Coral and every other week someone pinched the C to make it oral, we kept a stock of Cs out the back so when it happened we didn't have to waste time ordering them.

    I don't know what was more annoying, the fact that people thought it was an original thing to do or the ones who came into the shop next day and said 'I will have some oral please' or words to that effect.

    Fucking hilarious, we never stopped laughing.

  164. from PB on CIF

    Blair was never a sworn member of the ideological Left. He was a member merely of the Left.

    Strange thing to say on the day Blair finally came clean and admitted what most of always knew - that he was never of the left.


    I love blind Willie McTell, but he pretty much typifies my problem - I just can't do that intricate east coast stuff (still less on a 12 string).

    The other Blind Willie was pretty good too, and on the slide guitar.

  165. Spencer

    Only ever did acid once in my life - NEVER again! Muschrooms were free, plentiful and you could measure your dose!


    This might be right up your street then....

  166. Andrew Marr interviewing Blair on Beeb2. Interesting body language - Blair is very wild eyed, even when he attempts a smile. He exudes smugness.

  167. Evening all. I had my first trip in the Dagenham Roundhouse. Anyone know it?

  168. Ah we didn't have mushrooms in Barking. Luxury! We had to make do with pink microdots and phensydyll cough mixture. And you tell the young people today...

  169. La Rit

    Good acid was glorious stuff. Don't know what it's like these days as I haven't touched it in donkeys years, or anything else for that matter. Shame really but don't think my aging bod could handle it.

  170. Just had a quick look at the Tory B. Liar thread.... (writers interpret I'm assuming)

    Had to laugh at this from SirBevois

    "The book sounds a bit shit"

    Yep, that about sums it up ;0)

  171. @Martillo

    Good fucking God! What is this, a reunion board for East End acid casualties or what?

    For some reason I never went there, Martillo but I remember it being around.

    My first trip was in Valentine's Park.

  172. Spencer

    The 'magic' bus leaves Sheffield for the Peak at about this time of year. The fells are covered in folk looking for mushies - there are loads up here, if you know where to look.

  173. Martyn

    Glad I'm not the only sad bastard who appreciates all this stuff.

    Two more, just for old time's sake...

    The legendry Skip James

    And Charlie Patton, the Daddy of all Delta Bluesmen.

  174. Weird....posts disappearing....

  175. SheffP

    I tell a lie. I've had E's that have been laced with a bit o' aciiiiiid - great ;) glitter-vision - my favourite channel ;)

    In Somerset mushrooms were everywhere, my sister used to spend hours stringing loads together and drying them out - much more deadly that way. The first time I took them, I really didn't believe the hype - took far too many, it took me a long time to come down. I learned my lesson... taking them was a bit of a teenage pastime for ye bumpkins.

  176. @LaRit, Oh I love Gilbert Shelton. I first ran into the underground comix in the General Havelock as mentioned earlier. A couple of my mates used to street sell Nasty Tales and International Times to make a living.

    Nasty Tales was the British version of the US undergrounds but it used to run strips by Crumb and Shelton etc too.

  177. "What is this, a reunion board for East End acid casualties or what?"
    Casualties is probably right. Of the 10 or so I took I think three were totally glorious and the rest all had... dark moments, shall we say?

    Did you ever get to the Hounds blues Club (East Ham)?

  178. @LaRit

    The thing is, in the early seventies very few people knew that you could get psychedelic mushrooms in the UK. When I went to Keele University in 75 I met some guys who left after the first year. Visiting them in London I had some mushrooms preserved in honey that they had gone, from Keele to Wales to find.

    Then just after that, someone noticed that the playing fields at Keele and the adjacent golf course, were absolutely covered in them.

    The only people who had known what they looked like had not thought to look outside their own front door!

    So I had a couple of spectacular seasons picking them by the truckload. But soon everyone found out and then the authorities sprayed the area with fungicides.

  179. Martillo, nope. Yeah, I had some dark moments myself. Actually I must have been fucking nuts to do it again after the first time.

    I will start seeing faces in the wall again if we don't change the subject soon!

  180. God I was a late starter when it came to drugs, I never even smoked a spliff until I went to uni, tried most stuff but never really got into any of them.

    If only I felt the same way about booze. ;)

  181. "I will start seeing faces in the wall again if we don't change the subject soon! "

    Ok, Spencer, what about French Blues? I think they were always my favourite. And later sulphate...

  182. Spencer

    Valentines Park?I remember when i was at college a group of used went over there to smoke weed and it was full of Jewish people who were fasting.Sticks in my mind that does for some reason.

  183. @martillo, the only speed I did when I was living in Barking was the aforementioned phensydyl(sp?) cough mixture which had ephedrine in it if memory serves. Nice buzz but you had to neck at least half a bottle of this syrup to get it and that was incredibly sickly. Each time it got harder and I only managed it about six or seven times before the very idea made me retch.

    We knew how to have fun in those days.

    I did sulphate at Uni but only so as to get the essays written the night before the deadline. I couldn't really see why people did it recreationally, I really didn't enjoy it.

  184. Paul

    Fasting and weed sounds like a very bad idea. What about the munchies?

  185. What was good was the dope. I stopped smoking decades ago, but by the time I did it had already become very dull and now it just seems to be soap bar or skunk (correct me if I am wrong, I just go by what my still smoking friends say who are all old farts).

    But when I started smoking there were all kinds of interesting things Afghan Black, Nepalese temple ball, Thai sticks, Red Leb, Jamaican sensimilla, Columbian grass, Kashmiri twist... you rarely got the same sort of dope twice on the trot.

    Had Durban Poison in Seven Kings once. That was scary! Insane stuff.

  186. "If we get stuck with the same binary idiocies, but expressed in a reasonable manner, you might just achieve your ambition of being seen as a cunt...."

    Inflammatory, cruel, unprovoked.

    Bless you, exiled.

  187. @Paul. I used to go there as a kid with my sisters to see the squirrels.

    Can you imagine, having to go a specific park to see grey squirrels? Our house backed on to Barking Park. No squirrels there.

  188. exiled

    We weren,t fasting.Valentines Park is in a area that has a large Jewish community.And the day we all went there to smoke the park was full of Jewish people who were fasting because it was some Holy Day in the Jewish Calender.Not being Jewish ourselves we had no idea until we got there.No one complained mind and maybe our fumes made the whole fasting experience that much more enjoyable for them.

  189. Bless you? I thought you were planning to be polite Peter, not taking the cloth.

    Are you up for election for something?