06 September 2010


Your children are not your children.  They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.
-Kahlil Gibran


  1. It's Labor Day here. More importantly, it's Joe Wildhack's 11th birthday -- the first time since the day he was born that his birthday has coincided with Labor Day. It's a very big day here in the Wildhack household.

  2. Hi Montana--All the best to young Joe Wildhack on his special day.

    Mrs B and I shall get a good close up of the scene in your picture. We are off to Seattle next monday for our be with each other getaway. Seattle is a blast for us.

  3. Morning all

    Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself.

    Is "the sons and daughters of Life's longing for itself" a euphemism for "the milkman's"?

    Oh, and Happy Birthday Joe - Eleven's a good age to be.

  4. Have a memorable day together - Joe & Montana

    You too Boudican - hope you and your lass have a blast to last in Seattle.

  5. Thanks for the birthday greetings for Joe. I'll pass them along. And Boudican, have fun in Seattle. I've regretted moving away almost since the day I did it. Any particular part of the city that you're most fond of?

    Deano, it's really good to see you!

    Before I go do the things I've been putting off, I thought I'd share this gem from RapidEddie on Lady Bea's football sexism thread for anyone who hasn't seen it:

    I'm assuming this article will be followed by one from Harry Redknapp on gender theory.

  6. Bonne Anniversaire, Joe Wildhack!

  7. and thank you for pointing me towards beacampbellobe's latest offering, have assumed the traditional position

    (head on desk, growling gently)

  8. HB, JW.
    (@PhilippaB, did you see BeaOBE went BTL, in a remarkably incoherent and illiterate fashion?)

  9. AC - yes! did wonder if she'd been at the organic collective-farm cab sauv. but then she does seem to struggle without a sub-ed, in general...

    tried throwing in Marx, then lost the will to live.

  10. Hi all!

    Reviens! reviens!

    Happy Birthday Joe Wildhack - may all your dreams come true!!!!

    Boudican and Mrs B - have a lovely trip to Seattle - say hello to Fraiser and Nialls if you see them ;0)

  11. Mornin All, well that was a weekend lost to 'Tower Defense' :$

    Many happy returns Master Wildhack!

    Hi Deanno, chin up old man! : )

    Hello Philippa, good to see you back.

  12. Afternoon all

    If anyone is interested Natalie Hanman ,the new editor of cif,has just started a thread asking people their views on how cif should develop.

  13. Hi Montana- A very Happy birthday to Joe!

    Hi Deano - how are you? Good to see you.

    Apols for not been around here much, have a stressful time at the mo - our dog Jake has got a tumor on his neck. It is not a benign fatty lump. Took him to vets saturday morning after finding it on Friday - and her face was very concerned. She said she can't tell where it is attached - a lymph node or his thyroid. She has booked him in for surgery straight away on Wednesday as that is the day their best surgeon works. She did say it might be an infected abscess but she did also say she feared it may be the dreaded 'C'.

    If it is his thyroid then that is a big worry. So I have not felt up to posting much - expecially as it has been a little combative round these parts recently (nothing new there :) ) and not feeling up to joining the fray - which is not like me.

    I will let you know how he gets on.

    P.s. Sheff and MsChin - did you get to the protest against Clegg? My mum went - I was going to go but couldn't - she said about 150 there outside the town hall but he was smuggled in the back so never saw them!

  14. Hi Princess - best of luck with Jake - let's hope it's just an abscess. :-( Am home with dog today too as she's scratched her eye to bits and got an infection around it. The eye itself is fine, though, so it's just eyedrops and antibiotics for a few days.

  15. Oh that sounds painful Thauma. Bless her.

    I am keeping all crossed but am quite worried as the vet was so worried. She didn't even book him in for an ultrasound or bloods just straight for an op.

    I hope your lady feels much better soon.

  16. Bloody hell, pets eh? Unusually for me, I too have a pet story - unbelievably, one of our cats has got "cat acne". I'd honestly never heard of it, I thought the vet was just making it up to extort even more bloody money out of us, I think we've single-handedly paid for that lovely new extension on his house, the wanker.

    Anyway, in other news... Two schools in Northern Ireland have been evacuated after an eight-year-old child reportedly "carried a pipe bomb into a classroom". Tsk, kids today, I despair...

  17. Hi Princess,

    I hope it's just an abcess too!

    My housemate's cat has fleas, now I have to find a temporary home for my giant African snail while we fumigate!

  18. Princess, yeah, the silly bugger has scratched it raw. She's snoozing now so hopefully by the time she wakes up it won't hurt so much.

    Swifty, my school was right by the Exhibition Hall and we got out of school fairly often as it was always having bomb scares.

  19. P.S. How do you feel about being personally mentioned by the new editor?

  20. @Dott:

    "...now I have to find a temporary home for my giant African snail while we fumigate!"

    For pity's (and Snaily's) sake, don't ask that nice French neighbour of yours to look after it, it'll keep him and his family in food for a week...


    On the Lisburn Road, you mean?

  21. On the Malone Road just by the Lisburn Road....

  22. Swifty,

    Cheers for the tip, I'm also not giving it to my brother to look after: when I said I was going to buy it a heat mat he said he had one and offered me a frying pan....

  23. Swifty - It's a lot spiffier now than it was then!

  24. By jingo,for those who the other week wondered where MaM had gone, he's back with quite a vengeance, still adroitly practising sleight of hand: make an apparently factual statement, get hauled up for it,even shown evidence to the contrary then subsequently maintain it was only ever opinion, but still right.Some gems of late: "Somethings we all know are true" (just there's no evidence I can point to), "I have never once called my opinion evidence" (but I phrase assertions cunningly, in a definitive manner).It's impressive the way his arguments shift like the sands, so that he is always right even when he's ended up saying something wholly inconsistent with his starting points.
    Isn't it great he's back on such form?

  25. Dotterel - I didn't know I had been till you gave me the heads up! Been a bit out of the loop really last few days due to the doggy situation.

    I have a sort of depression thats settled over me and even such inflamatory things as the Observer backing David Miliband can't seem to shake me out of it.

    Hope your snail is ok. My hairdresser has two of those! Are they really big?

    Swifty - cat acne? Wow didn't know it existed.

  26. Princess,

    Hope the depression lifts soon (and the cause is that the dog's ok)

    Snail's about 15cm long, bet your hairdresser has to freeze the soil all the time to kill the eggs (which is why I only have one, they're hermaphrodite but can't self fertilise)

  27. Alisdair,

    MaM popped a corker yesterday when he claimed on a Murdoch thread that the British media has been staunchly left wing for 70 years and that the poor ickle Barclay Brothers are not tax avoiders by living in Sark, because Sark is part of the UK.

    Except Sark isn't a part of the UK but a self governing British dependency. And a tax haven. Which was relentlessly pointed out. And which was ignored.

  28. "MaM popped a corker yesterday when he claimed on a Murdoch thread that the British media has been staunchly left wing for 70 years and that the poor ickle Barclay Brothers are not tax avoiders by living in Sark, because Sark is part of the UK."

    Thats commenter of the year stuff, right there.

  29. @thauma:

    There used to be an Army base on the Malone Road, doubt there’s been one there for a decade or more now though, probably got shut down after Good Friday and PIRA decommissioning. But that was a fairly "peaceful" area of the city, wasn’t it?


    That truly sounds like a monster of a snail.


    Nor did I. And I'm still not 100% sure all the Google results aren't just our vet trying to pull a fast one...

  30. This comment has been removed by the author.

  31. Swifty - yes, luckily it wasn't an outright war zone.

  32. peterbracken
    6 September 2010 2:46PM

    And BTTP, do brooklynowes the courtesy of addressing him/her and not the two of us.

    Do you know childish you appear by persisting with this ridiculous charade?

    I know you (both) are. But what am I?

    : D

  33. HI Dot, long time no see, and best wishes to Joe, Montana.

    Acne, Swifty? You not been cleaning your pets properly? It seems a little call to the RSPCA is in order...

    The latest version of "ok guys, lets chat - how can we improve this place?" has been interesting in so far as every single complaint has been made countless times before. And countless times before they have been completely ignored. But still, always worth a go...

  34. @thauma:

    Thought so, I don’t remember it featuring in the “Top 5 walks to do in Belfast possibly minutes before you die” LOL.


    Christ knows, I never touch the bloody things, let alone “clean” them, I didn’t even know cats needed cleaning. Although I’m really not a “pet person”, as is possibly evident.

  35. Jay,

    The latest version of "ok guys, lets chat - how can we improve this place?" has been interesting in so far as every single complaint has been made countless times before. And countless times before they have been completely ignored. But still, always worth a go...

    I know, this is now the fifth time I've asked for a weekly GIYUS column and been ignored.

  36. Loving the image of a cat dabbing clearasil on at bedtime....and avoiding chocolate....perhaps it's her 'time of the month'?

  37. "Ask Conspiracy Grandma" would be a brilliant weekly column, agreed. Giyus is one of the most amusing posters on there, and every now and again turns up some little gems of information.

  38. Duke/Jay

    Today is the first time i,ve participated in an 'ok guys,let's chat'-which i understand is going to be a weekly event from now on.

    What is the point of having such a forum if certain questions are pointedly ignored?Why don't they just give a yes/no/maybe so at least people know where they stand.Hope this new venture doesn't turn out to be process of 'simply going through the motions.

  39. @Vari:

    Hmm, it's a thought, not one I'd considered to be honest, I was thinking more that the fact its miaow is breaking, that it's starting to hang out with alley cats just to piss us off, that it's stopped eating meat, and that it thinks everything is so unfair, just meant we have a typical spotty bloody adolescent on our hands.

  40. Paul

    Yeah there seems to be very little respond to the *hundreds* of posts about moderation.

  41. Jay/Paul

    Here's the biannual CiF "Hey, what can we do better" thread digested:


    To that end, please let me know: what should we try out next on Cif?


    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation
    Sort out moderation

    Thanks guys, we'll get somebody onto the "In praise of monster trucks" article next week.

  42. @Jay:

    It’s clearly a tricky one for the Graun, moderation. Out of interest, who present here thinks there should be no moderation at all over there? Or is it more a question of “degrees of moderation”, if I can put it that way?

  43. @His Grace

    Can you speak up a bit? I can't hear you. I've been deafened by Natalie Hanman's silence on all the calls for a moderation review.


    Don't I remember hearing somewhere that chocolate is toxic for cats and dogs?


    Happy birthday, Joe! Enjoy being 11. Life tends to get a bit more complicated in a couple of years time.

  44. Thats about the sum of it, Duke...

  45. I dont think "no moderation" would really work, at all, the place would end up like the youtube boards. But the bar for deletion should be very high.

  46. Happy 11th Birthday to Joe Wildhack!

    Commiserations and congratulations for all other ills and joys from everyone.

    Just a quick note on the new CiF editor and maybe a sign of things to come.

    Logged in as GlobalCultofMe
    Click here to sign out
    Your comments are being premoderated and may take a few minutes to appear on this discussion.

    So, having posted this:

    After a hugely successful few years in charge, Matt Seaton is moving to New York to edit Cif America...This means we will give considered attention to both the articles we commission, and to how we host debate in the threads – including moderation.

    So, a welcome change of direction with regard to moderation - if it ever comes about. Seaton was known to occasionally allow talk about moderation - sometimes after the rabble forced his hand when he had declared there would be no debate - and then to either ignore it totally and hope people would simply forget, or just point to the engraved stones he had magically brought down from a mountain when nobody was looking and tell everyone that was how it was going to be, like it or not.

    Ensuring that the moderators comply with your own community standards would obviously be a start.

    Either that or scrap the standards and just say moderation will be random and according to daily changing or personal whims.

    Some kind of declaration of ideology might be useful as well. If people are going to be deleted and banned for scribbling graffiti next to holy texts when they did not even know the text was scripture beyond criticism, it creates discontent.

    Just have a little flashing text running above the comment box saying: "You are not allowed to criticise this article."

    Then we can all just write something nice - even if we don't mean it.

    Or is it all really just business as usual...?


    I then post saying that nearly all the comments are about moderation, which Seaton refused to address and that poor moderation is spoiling the site and....

    I get put in pre-mod.

    Way to go!

    Will send quick email to this Hanman woman.

  47. @Jay:

    ”...But the bar for deletion should be very high...”

    For example?

  48. "”...But the bar for deletion should be very high...”

    For example?"

    Anything written by you for a kick off.

  49. @Jay:

    LOL, that sounds like an admirable policy, to be fair, "who in their right mind...?" etc

  50. Duke

    Thanks guys, we'll get somebody onto the "In praise of monster trucks" article next week.

    Except these monster trucks will be carrying digestives instead of jaffas.

    Small steps eh!

  51. I think its a pretty good starting point for a policy, Swift, obviously need to tinker with a bit but...

  52. @Jay:

    No need to tinker, it’s fine as it stands I reckon mate.

    Cath Elliott would miss me though. By their friends shall ye know them…

  53. I've been moderated by the new editor - at Brackens request.

    For the record the deleted post read something like:

    "Congratulations (next ciffer of the year) Princesschipchops for a well deserved mention by the new editor.

    .......(something like happily?) she didn't afford an accolade to that turd who won last year"

    Fingers crossed about your dog PCC.

    Best wishes too to the Swifty/Thauma pets and, to be even handed, to Dott's as well...

  54. Duke (15:42)

    Haha - indeed, and not for the first time, either.

    But now, they've taken it up a gear.

    Natalie has not only ignored the majority of complaints about moderation, but has now responded to Translated complaining about complaining about moderation.

    So that would now be:

    sort out moderation
    sort out moderation
    sort out moderation
    sort out moderation
    sort out moderation
    I'm sick of this moderation is crap, crap
    sort out moderation
    sort out moderation

    "Well, after our latest 'what do you want from us' thread, it was clear from our readers that discussions about moderation are becoming extremely boring, so that's enough of that now, d'ya hear...?"


  55. I know that you're definitely not supposed to give it to dogs Spike, but we had a mental jack russell who was ferocious in the presence of chocolate and would literally attack you for it, and it certainly never poisoned him.....which was unfortunate in the circumstances....

  56. Oh, and 'Parabens' to young Joe Wildhack, and best wishes to all pets experiencing difficulties, and a big wave to Deano!!

  57. deano

    Are you serious?

    Never had PeterB down as a grass.

  58. Hllo

    happy Birthday Joe.

    Best wishes to sick pets and worried owners too.

    Giant snails - I once looed after 2 for a friend - laid eggs within a couple of days - escaped regularly . They are interesting beasties - they can rasp away at bones , part of natures way of disposing of carcasses in warm humid places.

    Agree about the 'Make Cif better ' thread - waste of time. Designed to make us feel we are being consulted rather than placated and ignored. It's patronising.

  59. For anyone that missed it, a Bracken post from the Hanman thread:

    BTTP: 'revisionist' is a legitimate term. And it describes you well. 'Goose-stepping' is a commonplace adjective. And it describes you well (you being a self-declared Communist).

    I did call you 'limp-wristed' and a 'nancy boy', not because I think you're gay (I know you're not) or because I'm homophobic (I'm not) but because they evocatively describe your gutless character. I accept that they are inappropriate, and i regret using them.

    I should add, that I wouldn't have used those terms on a CiF thread given its reach; as you well know, I used them on a website that amounts to semi-private correspondence. It's clear I should add 'kiss 'n tell' whistleblower to your list of edifying qualities.

    So welcome one and all to the semi-private, confidential UT!

    I just wish he hadn't used the expression "kiss 'n' tell" in his post to me. I feel quite nauseous.

  60. Hi Leni

    Must admit it did feel a bit like the Oxbridge types giving the proles a pat on the head.But i,m prepared to give Natalie a chance.See how things pan out.Possibly makes me an optimist bordering on the naive mind.

  61. Bracken - you would take the sweets from children or get into bed with a turd if you thought it would enhance your deluded self image. Despite the rumour that you can fart the the Anthem you are sadly misatken about your talent.....

    You have next to no chance of ciffer of the year.

    Two consecutive turds in one pan is simply too much for even these august threads.

    Regards - deano.

  62. Hey all,

    and Happy Birthday Joe,

    Yup, snail's a monster, my housemate saw some others in an animal park and wanted her money back because they weren't "Giant"!

    Think I've fixed the problem, he(/she/it) will be moving into my office for a few days!

  63. Hi Paul

    Are you still on the day shift? Chekhov is still working overnight. Recently read a report on various forms of health risks to nightworkers. To do with natural rythms and different body organs working more efficiently at different times during the light and dark cycle.

  64. Paul
    I put in the usual request for banned posters to reapply and register under original names.

    Not optimistic - but worth yet another try.

  65. Happy Birthday Joe Wildhack!

    For anyone wondering whether a new editor will make any difference on CiF, here is all you need to know:

    Mr Gingold does not quite manage to be first past the post this time, but comes in at a respectable number two, with -

    6 September 2010 12:09PM

    congratulations & good luck natalie.


    6 September 2010 12:26PM

    @hermionegingold Thanks very much. Would love your thoughts on what we're doing well and what we could do better ...

    6 September 2010 12:41PM

    @hermionegingold Thanks very much. Would love your thoughts on what we're doing well and what we could do better ...

    no real complaints in general but an edit function would help & perhaps an amnesty
    for banned posters. everyone deserves a second chance.

    So, there you have it. The new CiF editor will take instructions from one of the usual suspects and everything will stay the same.

    For my part, a post simply mentioning that everyone is complaining about moderation gets deleted and I get put into pre-mod.


  66. Paul - his call for my deletion has now been removed but here is a 'picked up' reference to it:

    6 September 2010 3:23PM


    deano30 has just called MoveAnyMoutain a****.

    Peter whilst you are right... you called me and most Guardian readers deluded. I really would tread a quiter path if I were you.


    No big deal or great loss - I haven't posted on Cif for ages since about when MAM won. It was as much in praise of PCC as in condemnation of the turd MAM.

    The purist insider dealing Peter would always sacrifice well deserved praise for others to get his own name before the audience - the mark of a tosser and floating turd in the making.....

  67. Hi Leni

    I'm still doing days but taking work home as well.Problem is i,m voluntarily working over 48 hours so the company isn't liable for any ill effects these long hours are having on my health.

    My body clock is a law unto itself these days.Having real difficulty getting to sleep no matter how knackered i am.My body seems to permanently be on night shift mode.Yet when i was working nights often could sleep during the day cos of the DIY that is a regular occurence in the block of flats i live in.

    Anyway i should be going back on nights soon although me and partner are talking of 'downsizing' if we can cos she's working long hours as well and it's killing her too.

    However there's plenty of people worse off than us so shouldn't moan too much.

  68. @Atomboy:

    LOL, plus ca change etc. Though I think you're maybe missing a trick here - "I recall zounds/hermione/OZK/insert poster of choice here saying only the other day that he/she/it thought CiF might be better served if you…” etc.

    Gotta be worth a punt if you think CiF is worth saving? On the other hand, if all it is is just one more internet forum with the usual preponderant majority of undiscriminating and dull me-me-me contributors, then you’re probably best off saving your virtual breath and doing something more interesting instead.

    I don’t really care enough about it, for whatever that’s worth.

  69. Hi Leni

    Just picked up your 16.44pm post.I also posted Natalie about an Amnesty for the Banned but she pointedly ignored it even though i repeated it a couple of times.And whenever i,ve raised the subject on waddya Jessica's always ignored it as well.But if nothing else i'm a tenacious bastard so like you i'll keep trying.

  70. @Paul & Leni

    I answered Leni, saying that I'd like to go back to being SpikeParis and pointing out I was only ever "suspended", but no reaction.

    However, NH did finally say she was considering the moderator issue and to be patient. I suppose that's some progress.

  71. Evening all.

    Boy, there's nothing brings out the solidarity BTL but a beacampbellobe article...some classic stuff on there.

    Anyway - best wishes to all dealing with animal (mollusc?) related issues, and Vari, now can't get that image out of my head, either.

    James - Parabens to Wildhack Jr? Isn't the nasty stuff shampoo companies boast about not using? Confused...

  72. SwiftyBoy

    On the other hand, if all it is is just one more internet forum with the usual preponderant majority of undiscriminating and dull me-me-me contributors, then you’re probably best off saving your virtual breath and doing something more interesting instead.

    I have to agree with this, pretty obviously.

    I had set up a number of accounts to tide me over the period when Seaton would hand his crippled little empire to the next wrecker.

    However, it seems I have either been banned or pre-moderated or forgotten who I am, to the point that I am not sure what personae I may now have stored in the pantry, waiting to be deployed at several hours' notice, subject to having gone over their sell-by date.

    I think I will just wait and see and let others here tell me what is going on from time to time.

    I have no expectation of an amnesty and would probably prefer to just make the occasional foray under cover of unconvincing Clouseau-esque disguise anyway.

  73. Philippa

    Erm, whoops.

    No (and, that'll learn me to show off a limited ability in another language, so....)

    Congratulations to Master Joe Wildhack....

  74. Yes, ta, Vari, and you?

    Still reading through the Hanman thread. It's not exactly difficult to miss the fact that the number one thing most people want changed is moderation.

  75. I didn't 'grass' on you, deano: I made my case for the deletion publicly. That's it. I pressed no 'abuse' button, just highlighted the - er - loser's quality of the comment you'd made. Period.

    If you've a problem with that, take it up with the Guardian, who seemed to agree with me.

  76. A little late to all this today, but happy birthday to Joe, and best wishes to all the animal carers (various species of both).

    That Hanman thread is entertaining. A bit surprised not to see some familiar hobbyhorse riders there yet. Where is Wyrdtimes?

  77. Where is Wyrdtimes - probably off in the woods spinning anglosaxon spells to bring about his assured destiny - or sumatt.

  78. Evening all. BB here but still logged into work email. Meh. Back to earth with a bloody bump today.

    Haven't looked at Natalie Hanman's thread yet so I will give it a shufty.

    Calling MAM an arse is a bit of a pleonasm isn't it? I thought that was what the A stood for? :p

    Happy Birthday to Joe! And many more of em!

    And sorry for all of you who have pet problems. Hope they get resolved.

    Nose back to the grindstone, but I will be keeping an eye on you.

    Spike - keep up the good fight! :D

  79. I didn't accuse you of 'grassing' Bracken. You did indeed make the call public - a right song and a dance about turd it was too

    All small beer - to have a small bouquet for one who may deserve it removed so that you can uphold the supposed dignity of an absent turd is your prerogative dear sir.

    A silly judgement in my book but what the hell, what's new. We shall know them by the company they keep.

  80. @BB

    Cheers. I should be working too and I'll regret it later when I find myself still struggling on at four in the morning.

  81. Hi BB

    Haven't welcomed you back. Good to see you.

    Odd isn't it how the first day back at work can make the holiday seem but a dream.

    Bet son was pleased to see mum and dad back.

  82. Atomboy

    "I have no expectation of an amnesty and would probably prefer to just make the occasional foray under cover of unconvincing Clouseau-esque disguise anyway"

    I can't get a new moniker to stick for more than a couple of posts lately before being banned...I do-genuinely-regard it as a compliment..and something of an 'irony'* that, instead of the continual bans, they haven't got a spare Oxbridge grad or two who can nip along..tie me up in abstruse rhetoric, drench me in blistering caustic ridicule and send me scurrying away with my tail between my legs.

    Maybe they're all too busy knitting booties for African orphans or asking feminist hod-carriers their about their concerns over GM crops...who the fuck knows?

    ..all I get instead are sad imitations..no pure and valiant defenders of the liberal flame..just flabby, foul-mouthed, cognitively-deficient, little Sancho Panzas who graduated from some unpronounceable Welsh FE college with a distinction for their dissertation on Sheep Dip...or winners of the 1958 'Marie Antoinette Shield' at Madame Malaprop's Finishing School for young cross-dressers. Or even 'boy-wonder Narodniks'

    To be honest, I would like just one post as monkeyfish on CIF in which I would reveal any of the other disguises I'd used, inform various posters with whom I'd been 'debating' then cut off mid-flow by a ban that I'm over here and if they really fancy it, they could nip over and we could resume the happy banter.

    *note the ironic quotes around the word ironic...you just don't get that class of post-ironic-sardonic-pre-irony on CIF...see what they're missing...fuckin lightweights

  83. @Bracken

    I pressed no 'abuse' button, just highlighted the - er - loser's quality of the comment you'd made

    You are such a bloody hypocrite. You were whining, melting down and gabbling homophobic insults at me the other day because I pointed out that your "goose-stepping" addressed to me on Whaddya looked rather like a Nazi comparison. I didn't press the abuse button either. Did that worry you? Like fuck it did.

    And your latest comment on Whaddya? You say to Jessica that you're tired of arguing with me and then say "I should have let BTTP peddle his nonsense", so attempting to restart a slanging match. You really are a ridiculous buffoon.

  84. 'All small beer...'

    Your small beer, not mine deano.

  85. Heavens, 'tis a bad-tempered world. So let's join in.

    "I did call you 'limp-wristed' and a 'nancy boy', not because I think you're gay (I know you're not) or because I'm homophobic (I'm not) but because they evocatively describe your gutless character. I accept that they are inappropriate, and i regret using them."

    Something else you could do, sweets.

    channel that 'not being homophobic' thing before you start typing.

    just a thought.

  86. james - no snark, pet, just confused.

    had a (very brief) conversation at work in russian today, so language skills are someting akin to raspberry ripple.

    am happy have now worked out what they are, though - french ads will keep banging on about the bloody things.

  87. This comment has been removed by the author.

  88. monkeyfish,

    has your latest incarnation been banned already?

    Just out of interest, had you had a lot of moderation with your latest handle? If not, they've made a judgement call on who they think you are and banned you regardless of whether or not your posts have been "offensive" and moderated.

    So they are now banning people based on who they think the person is rather than the posts of that handle?


  89. Atomboy

    Have had a quick butchers over at the Hanman thread.There only seems to be one dissenting BTL voice to the idea of an amnesty for the banned.No prizes for guessing who that is :-)

  90. Peter

    Cut the menacing tone, cheri, there's a love. It just makes it sound like macho muscle-flexing. You're a bright guy - it is such a shame that you seem to base so much of your rhetoric on ad hom. Since day one on CiF you have operated with a disdainful voice, and it grates. There really is no need.

    Leni - yes, the offspring was surprisingly pleased to see us back, and surprisingly good about keeping the house clean and tidy (although complaining about running round after the older family friend who was "babysitting" him).

    But he has a point to prove - he will no doubt expect us to leave him at home next year too! We have come to a compromise and will have a week in Scotland with him, and a week in France without, I think. No need to get on a ferry/plane/go in a tunnel to Scotland... :o)

    Deano - hope you are keeping well.

  91. Won't take being chastised on this site, Philippa. Just watch your step.

    What are you going to do, call for your mummy? The nasty woman said I made homophobic comments just because I said 'limp-wristed' and 'nancy boy'!

  92. that wasn't chastisement, sweets, just advice.

    because it can be very easy to think that words like 'nancy-boy' and 'limp-wristed' are just banter, or something.

    whereas they can give an impression of homophobia.

    just not wanting you to get tarred with a brush.

    you know what happened here recently? two women, walking home, get some abuse from a diuck in a car. he gets out of the car. the abuse gets physical. they call for help. a group of guys come along, hear the cries.

    join in.

    hello ambulance.

    so, i'm just pointing out that if you aren't homophobic, it might be an idea to avoid using homophobic language. or there might be the impression given that you are.

    and i watch my step every time i and the oisette are out, btw. that little bit of my brain that can't quite switch off because i've got to wonder, ooh, are we going to get attacked?

    you've been in the army, you know how stressful that kind of constant vigilance can be on a person.

    so, just advice. best not give the wrong impression, eh?

  93. My post to Bracken seems to have disappeared into the Spam filter. Can't think why.

  94. Ah no, it's back. Sorry for the confusion!

  95. "Cut the menacing tone, cheri..."

    "So, just advice."

    Quite right. Take it back. Apologies, Philippa. No excuses.

  96. Won't take being chastised on this site, Philippa. Just watch your step.

    What exactly are you threatening her with, you egotistical fuckwit?

  97. This comment has been removed by the author.

  98. Cut of the profits even.

    Even that poor excuse of a joke fell flat.

  99. But it is nonsense, Spike. I am not brooklynowes. You declare that I am. But I'm not. So it's nonsense in my book. You can see why I think it nonsense, can't you? Or do I have to live with your fuckin' stupid fantasy? Which is it?

    There is a truth here. It's black and white. And you're a gnat's dick from certifiable if you insist on the contrary.

  100. BB

    btw-did you hear that Cherie is taking legal action against the publishers of Mandy's Memoirs.She wants the return of a letter he quoted from where she allegedly dissed Gordon plus £800 in costs.

  101. This comment has been removed by the author.

  102. ah, that's BB! sorry, have been away for a bit, everyone seems to have changed names...hope you had good hols!

    i would, but after getting you all to learn to spell me first one, seems unfair to switch on you now...

    and thank you peterb.

  103. @Bracken

    Read my post on Whaddya. You're a waste of time and an annoyance.

  104. my christ, mcshane is back and guess what it's about?

    not looking.

    am making chili.

  105. BB

    Sorry my now deleted 18.47pm post was supposed to be a joke.On reflection not sure it came across that way.No offence meant.

    Anyways hope you had a good break:-)

  106. Hey Paul and Thaum

    I'd like to say I am glad to be back, but it would be a bit of a lie really. So much happier out there, even if I love my job and my house here too. Ah well, it will all sort itself out.

    LOL at "Home Alone", Paul! :o)

    He has his grandad just down the road, though, as well as our friend babysitting and grandad filling in when he couldn't, so all was good. It would have been easier if he hadn't left it til literally the last minute before telling us he wasn't coming, though - we will get it better arranged in advance next time instead of spending a day running round like headless chickens!

    Dunno what Cherie thinks she is doing. Presumably a letter belongs to the person to whom it is addressed once it has been posted and received...

  107. Evening all

    Bit late in the day but many happies Joe Wildhack!

    BB - Hope your jollies went well. Good to see you back.

    According to the Beeb news the UFF have just claimed responsibility for actually putting that pipe bomb in the school playground. A playground FFS!

  108. I've read it, Spike - and I've given it the short shrift it deserves.

  109. "Won't take being chastised on this site, Philippa. Just watch your step."

    Peter you really are extremely comical sometimes.

  110. "This is something I've never done before. But there is a first time for everything."

    The fuckin' conceit of it, Spike. I mean, what size of stuffed shirt believes anyone might give a fuck about his first time for anything? Man, the deluded hubris makes me want to rejoice, kinda.

  111. I withdraw the remark, Jay. What do you want me to do besides?

  112. @exiled
    Good post on the Natalie Hangmnan thread. None of it will be realised, but some good points well made.

  113. Peter Bracken

    The fuckin' conceit of it, Spike. I mean, what size of stuffed shirt believes anyone might give a fuck about his first time for anything? Man, the deluded hubris makes me want to rejoice, kinda.

    Conceit? Hubris?

    "What did Evelyn Waugh call it? The itch to write...."
    (Conceit and hubris courtesy of P Bracken)

  114. I know you withdrew it, Peter, and i dont like to go on after someone has withdrawn something but it was very funny.

    "What do you want me to do besides?"

    Calm down a bit.

  115. I,ve just had my 4th post re-instated on appeal.I,m a fair man at heart so kudos to the mods for that.

  116. Although it did help my appeal when i submitted this tune with it.

  117. Glad to read that you had a good break BB Back to work is always a time for reflection.....sometimes sad reflections on what might have been.... if only.

    I always like your work sign in - "We the people" it's quite Magisterial. Perhaps you'll have to abandon your wild hippy dreams and settle for being a Judge when you grow up.

    Montana I'd always assumed that your leaving of Seattle must have involved some soul wrenching regret. It sounds (and looks) a great place......and Cowpat Junction is so far from ......the sea.... and the other things that nurture the sensibilities.

    Ah well at least you've been there so perhaps you can dream of a return one day.

  118. Sorry MW - many happy returns to the Birthday Boy...my oldest starts school tomorrow....am really not sure how I'm going to cope....think prozac, wine and prozac in that order. At bedtime, obviously...

  119. Duke

    No..my latest was a bit of a pussy-cat/ stalking horse type gizmo...he tended more to the irenic than the ironic

    I think it was the invented hits statistics that did it...they might have disputed them but that might've meant having to produce the real figures which I was rather hoping might show the place to be a cliquey little backwater for tea-ladies with time on their hands and the terminally bewildered.

    That said I've had a couple in the past who were created in a fit of righteous rage to nip on and give some crypto-fascist estate agents or cab drivers a good panelling, sticking to what you might call an orthodox Guardianista narrative, and they've been wiped in half an hour..straight ban...do not collect 200 pounds

  120. Hi BW,

    A bit of a formless rant to be honest. At one point I'd written "and another thing..." and had to delete it. Maybe they could give us a green ink function?

    But having been given an invite to rant, it would have been churlish to pass it up, wouldn't it?

  121. Another good article on TechCrunch.

    For anyone wondering why CiF/The Guardian do not do proper news and why people talking about real events they are experiencing in the real world will always trump the lazy, the fearful of legal action and the terrified of advertising being withdrawn within the ranks of professional journalists, it covers pretty much everything.

    So, all those who have been holding their breath or keeping their fingers crossed that CiF would one day change its spots, you can exhale a halitosis sigh of relief and unwind your tangled fingers.

    It will never happen.

  122. Happy Birthday to your son Montana, although it is probably almost over now.

    Sorry to hear about all the poorly pets.

    I was just watching the Simpsons and an advert has come up for Sky News tomorrow, apparently it is hardship day and they are spending all day looking at those who are already suffering because of the cuts, surely I've got the wrong end of the stick?

  123. BTW, I think it's rather unlikely that brooklynowes and Peter Bracken are one and the same.... I doubt if he even gets the username.

  124. Great fun on the Cif new editor thread.

    "Was the job advertised, shortlisted and interviewed for in line with The Guardian's equal opportunities and diversity policy?" asked a commenter sternly.

    JessicaReed: "Yes, it was. I remember tweeting about it, telling people the job ad was online."

    And the niceties of twitter and diversity having been duly observed, the Guardian then hired an ex-Fawcett, white female who is doing a MSc in gender at the LSE Gender Institute. You could have knocked me down with a feather!

  125. "...my oldest starts school tomorrow...."

    VariJust in time to enter you for this years craziest mum contest! Hope the child is sworn to secrecy....

    Best wishes to you all - school starts are challenging times....

  126. So did she go to Oxford or Cambridge then?

  127. Wybourne and monkeyfish

    Whether they do some kind of IP checking against who they think might be banned, using multiple accounts or who is upsetting the blessed circles of the favoured few, I don't know.

    I certainly had, from memory, about four accounts banned on one morning and I was expecting the latest to go last Friday or Saturday but it limped along for a few days.

    The problem for CiF is that it is now clearly simply setting itself up for public ridicule.

    Everyone has said that moderation is the biggest problem the site faces, so it has little credibility now and this will plummet when everyone sees that yet another editor fails to do anything about it.

    Of course, it could have been just a ploy to smoke out the troublemakers and give the fundament-suckers a chance to shine and twinkle.

    Basically, who cares?

  128. Atomboy

    Of course, it could have been just a ploy to smoke out the troublemakers and give the fundament-suckers a chance to shine and twinkle.

    You think? Oh fuckity fuck.... I'll get me coat...

  129. Ah Peter you did get the Fowler!

    >>Quite right. Take it back. Apologies, Philippa. No excuses.

    Interesting to me that you can display admirable brevity in contrition. Your grandiloquence is in abeyance and the pomposity of your usual monologue is starkly contrasted, perhaps brooklynowes assessment that you are talented is not as fantastic as it first appears. But it's either famine or feast, how about...

    You are quite right Philippa. I take it back. Please accept my apologies. I can offer no excuses for my repeated ill considered and uncouth behaviour.

  130. LOL Deano

    Not sure the bench is for me. But who knows, I might get fed up with running round like a blue arsed fly one day and trade the wig in for a different one...

    Phil - the "We the People" is a blog that I never managed to get off the ground that is associated with my normal email address as opposed to the BB one, so it automatically comes up like that if I am logged in to my work email and I can't be arsed to keep logging out and logging in again as something else. So it is just laziness.

    Atomboy - nothing will change much, no. It really would be good if they would consider an amnesty for the old log-ins, though.

    I expect to see that on the same day I see a pig fly past the window in Virgin livery though.

  131. exiled:

    Not sure what you're banging on about. Waugh exclaimed - can't recall where or when - that he couldn't resist the urge to writes to the Times (I think).

    I made a simple allusion to it. What's your beef with that? Is Waugh NPG around these parts? I mean, do you want me to purify my references before I quote, too? Is Waugh a fast track to conceit because he's Waugh, or is it because I had the temerity to paraphrase a bourgeois writer?

    I know - I'll burn his books ce soir.


  132. Vari

    Oooh. Harsh moment, the first day of school. Harsh on the Mum, that is.

    The worst moment was when, having got to the top of the road one day, at the age of 8, my lad told me I didn't need to walk him to the gate (holding his hand of course) any more and he would be "fine now".

    Like the cut of cold steel through the guts. I stood and watched until he was a little blue and ginger speck on the horizon...

  133. "So did she go to Oxford or Cambridge then?"

    Strangely there is no record of Ms Hanman's previous educational qualifications on her Guardian bio or anywhere else. So I'm guessing Cambridge.

  134. Book-burning as well?

    I always knew you were a proto-fash, Peter :p

  135. Atomboy

    But surely the way round that would be for the 'banned' who want to return to e-mail the mods using the 'name' they want to be remebered by.Make themselves known to them and show willing to adhere to the rules.So even if they don't have a general amnesty they may well re-admit certain individuals.

  136. Never stopped me exiled those bastards haven't got a clue (continues P93)

    MSc in "Gender"?

    From their website

    The LSE Gender Institute is interested in mapping and intervening in the gendered nature of social processes, and believes that an integrated interdisciplinary and global approach is needed to do so.

  137. "BTW, I think it's rather unlikely that brooklynowes and Peter Bracken are one and the same.... I doubt if he even gets the username."

    What, you think Spike's that stupid? Thought you and him were mates.

  138. "Is Waugh a fast track to conceit because he's Waugh, or is it because I had the temerity to paraphrase a bourgeois writer?"

    I like Waugh..never heard anyone disparage him on here..in fact Sheff said she'd read the Sword of Honour Trilogy about 10 times or something the other day..I know I've read Scoop at least 3

    but whatever anybody has or could say about him, I doubt anything would have him spinning in his grave or foaming at the mouth in purgatory quite as much as calling him a bourgeois writer.

  139. Peter did apologise, chaps. Not very often that people do that in writing. Props for that, imo. He could have said nowt.

  140. "Make themselves known to them and show willing to adhere to the rules."

    I did adhere to the rules..I'm a prisoner of conscience..if the Guardian and Amnesty weren't joined at the ideological hip, I'd have felt the sun on my back and the breeze in my hair years ago..it's the birdsong I miss most

  141. Peter

    Fair dues - I share Jimi Hendrix's urge to play the guitar...

    BTW, nothing wrong with Waugh - he could write.

  142. This comment has been removed by the author.

  143. MF

    We could launch a "Free the Liverpool One" campaign if you like.

    I'll get on to Stafford-Smith right away. :o)

  144. Peter Bracken

    Thought you and him were mates.

    Mates? What do you think this is - facebook?

    To my knowledge I've never met anyone here, and being a bit old-fashioned about these things, I kind of insist on knowing people before becoming mates with them...

    Are all of your mates online?

  145. Vari - hope the First Day goes okay, for both of you...

    BB - Oooh. Harsh moment, the first day of school. Harsh on the Mum, that is.

    I've started work this term for the first time without a child at school. Feels very strange.

  146. Pipsterinha

    "james - no snark, pet, just confused".

    No worries - I didn't think it was.

    -Although, that I'd managed to expose my complete lack of knowledge in the fields of language and scientificky type stuff, in all of about 5 words was probably some kind of record, even for me, so, you know, I appreciate you pointing that one out!!!


  147. an MSc in gender?

    you can do an MSc in gender?


    is the first term spent critiquing the gender bias of the title of the sodding course?

  148. exiled - if this was facebook, we could play scrabble, and i think we all know how well that would end.

  149. Philippa I like to think she is deconstructing the Mr Men books, through a feminist gaze of course. ;)

    Her blistering takedown of the Little Miss Sunshine book got her the Cif job.

  150. philippa

    is the first term spent critiquing the gender bias of the title of the sodding course?

    No that won't be necessary as from now on the course will simply be known as a MS in gender studies.

  151. Sheff! Missed your post earlier.

    Took a photo of my fave resto and my plate of steack-frites on the first night. Just have to work out how to download it from my phone now. :o)

  152. MSc in gender is an anagram of mens cringed

  153. Shaz

    All these fledging moments are gut-wrenching, aren't they?

    My nan always used to say that children weren't ours, but were lent to us for a while to look after...

  154. I said - Waugh! Huh Good God y'all
    What is it good for?

    Taking the piss out of hypocrites, most of all.

    Surprised that Bracken likes him: "He was gifted with the sly, sharp instinct for self-preservation that passes for wisdom among the rich." Oh, I see.

  155. heheheheheh.

    bear in mind, jen, that little miss trouble was only 'trouble' (in terms of a masculist gaze - arguably she was just reclaiming the freedom of a pre-patriarchal society through the medium of tripping people up and stuff) because of those evil men Mr Mischief and Mr Misogynist.

    this stuff is important, people, we mustn't let things slip by us...

    [sound of genuine issue calling feebly in the background]

  156. Paul - because of course first you have to do a BS in gender studies...

    (sorry, couldn't resist)

  157. monkey - lovely....

    (got as far as SCR minge-end and gave up)

  158. Philippa

    Lol! That's you off the BBC Xmas Card list again this year.

  159. Round of applause to everyone. You made me larf.

  160. I know it is her business but it would be interesting to know what aspect of gender she is concentrating on, what odds it is something to do with the under representation of women in the media.

  161. Wouldn't anyone doing a Bsc or Msc in gender studies have to immediately boycott it on account of the patriarchal connotations/assumptions of 'bachelor' and 'Master' anyway....??

  162. "My theme is memory, that winged host that soared about me one grey morning of war-time."

    Love that line from Brideshead.

  163. "Paul - because of course first you have to do a BS in gender studies..."

    much better idea...BS in gender studies is an anagram of...

    being undistressed

  164. James

    Not if you're a hermaphrodite apparently.

  165. and...greediness dustbin...ingested sideburns...insurgent bedsides

  166. Also, you're all a bunch of know-nothing numpties anyway, referring to Waugh as a fucking 'he'!!

    It's Evelyn Waugh, people. Evelyn!!


  167. MF get yourself on Countdown, a talent like that deserves a wider audience. ;)

  168. Someone just showed me an anagram solver site

  169. am quite glad we don't have scrabble now - think monkeyfish would slaughter the rest of us....

    james - genuinely remember that coming up once - "bitch of arts" was the agreed alternative version...

    (Mind, you can do an 'MStud' at some places, that's even worse...)

  170. Someone just showed me an "anagram solver site"

    and now I've developed "transversal egomania"

  171. damnit, monkey, thought you had something and we were going all the way to Britain's Got Talent there...

  172. have more than likely posted this before, but it is quite the best version on the ep

  173. "mens cringed" was mine though and "being undistressed"...I can only do anagrams after a couple of spliffs, though...not sure I'm that telegenic when I'm wasted..might give Countdown a miss

  174. heheheh.

    and with that, night all!

  175. James, if the guy was happy to keep the name Evelyn, it's fine by me. His prose by any other name would sell as sweet.

  176. jennifer, it was 'gender and social policy'. Useful for Fawcett and their various 'research projects' and lobbying, I imagine, although Natalie has now moved on to bigger and better things. Expect more Bea Campbell articles on how the male working class are all sexist scum and a series of Bidisha articles on latent transgenderism in Harry Potter or how beastly the BBC are to women Oxbridge grads who only ever seem to get to present R4 programmes and R2 shows and TV arts shows and literary shows and documentaries and stuff. Bastards!

  177. Paul/Pip


    Person of Non-specific Sex, Educational Diploma, as in 'I worked hard to get PoNsED at Uni'...??

  178. MF-must admit i was getting impressed there as well.Was trying to visualize an insurgent bedside.

  179. Habib

    (following the conversation with Tybo the other day), I wonder if he originally took the name because he started his writing career with a 'specific sub-genre' of prose....??

  180. James

    I think even Bea (OBE) would get a bit tongue tied with that.Of course if it were a non-specific person etc....then you really would be straying into dodgy territory.

  181. I've got to confess, James, it's not a question that keeps me up at night.

  182. Auberon Waugh is on holiday.

    Perhaps P.G. Wodehouse could step up to the mark?

  183. Why am I cursed with good, loyal friends who invite me out to dinner? Now I've done no work this evening and I feel guilty and apprehensive. Never mind, let's open a bottle of wine.

    My late stepfather bought a crossword electronic doodah where you fill in the letters you have and it gives you possible solutions. Cheating, I call it. I prefer to wrestle with the cryptic unassisted, drink and drug-addled brain cells over inky matter. My favourite clue ever was:


  184. Hi All--A bit hung today. In the 26 oz. flu sense.

    Montana--We'll be spending our time in Belltown, Pike Place market, Pioneer Square, and Safeco Field. Belltown, if you don't know it, is a recently renewed area NW of the market. Pioneer Square is cleaned up quite a bit with some good blues bars, so looking forward to that.

  185. Sorry, I should have added:


  186. @James

    Either you're a genius or you've seen it before.

  187. Above to Spike!!

    (H to O missing?)

    hey Boudican!!

  188. Spike,

    My Grandad showed me it a while back!!

    (In my defence, I did figure it out myself, just not that quickly....)

  189. La Toynbee

    "We might let Auberon Waugh rest in peace were it not for the mighty damage his clan has done to British political life, journalism and discourse in the postwar years. They have perpetuated the myth of the superior cultured English gent as an archetype."

    She's even got a point..and if she'd made a similar case when New Labour put the hedge fund managers on the grouse-moors in place of/ alongside Auberon's coterie, I wouldn't think she was such a vindictive joyless cow.

  190. @James

    If I remember, it took me a couple of letters and some intensive thinking. No H to O. Not the most difficult ever, but I just found it very neat.