18 September 2010


Charlene - Robert Rauschenberg
All power corrupts, but we need the electricity.


  1. Morning All!

    Lovely picture, Montana.

    And now some clarification from Dave Clegg:

    Nick Clegg last night warned that there was no future for the Lib Dems as a leftwing alternative to Labour. He said he understood that some turned to the Lib Dems, particularly during the Iraq war, as a leftwing conscience of the Labour party, but said: "I totally understand that some of these people are not happy with what the Lib Dems are doing in coalition with the Conservatives. The Lib Dems never were and aren't a receptacle for leftwing dissatisfaction with Labour. There is no future for that, there never was."

    So, there goes about 80 percent of the LibDem vote next time round.

    So, whether this government manages a full term or not, who will people vote for when they are allowed to exercise their democratic privileges for ten minutes in the scout-hut or community leisure centre?

    LibDems? Well, no, obviously not.

    New Nasties? Er, that'll be a no.

    New New "Faster, Deeper, Longer Aaaahhh!" Labour? Well, only up to a point, Lord Copper.

    Oh, bummer!

    That leaves....er, nobody!

    The skies falling in! Help! We're all doomed!

  2. Oh, sorry, I put the wrong link in the above Cleggomania mention.

    The real article is over at The Independent.

    May I also point out to the discerning Sir or Madam that both The Telegraph and The Independent are coming along in leaps and bounds with their public commenting systems, unlike another news organ which, under the steady gaze and guidance of its new manager, is set to prove that even when something is well and truly broken, it can still be broken just a little bit more.

  3. That news sent a shiver down my spine as well AtomBoy. The utter bare faced cheek of him.

    Just alluding to my post from yesterday apropos Vince C, I see the Guardian has comments open on that piece. The general consensus is that out of 500 million folk in the EU these poor companies 'just can't get the staff these days don'y you know'.

    It is all about ceapnesr s fist second and last.

    Vince Cable supported in call for more flexible immigration curbs

  4. Sorry about the spelling mess, not got a chequer on my new netbook thingy ;-)

  5. As the Government plunges headlong into Victorian morality 2.0, I must share this Radio 4 programme to be aired on Monday:

    What's wrong with child labour?

    Here's the puff:

    What is childhood for?

    It is commonly seen as a time for play and learning, but should employment play a more important part?

    Fran Abrams examines the subject of children at work in the UK, and asks why it is a phenomenon so little talked about.

    She traces the history of child labour in this country, and explores modern-day notions of the 'priceless child' who ought to be immersed in education and shielded from harsh economic reality.

    In protecting our children, she asks, are we causing them harm? And might the youth of Britain benefit from a revival of child labour?

    Jesus Christ. Much as I want to give anyone a fair hearing, did we not decide that child labour was reprehensible in this country round about the start of the 20th Century?

    Have we really regressed so far that even contemplating child labour as acceptable once more is up for debate by our genteel, liberal, bourgeois intellectuals?

    Within a couple of months we'll have some bleeding heart Fabian investigating the eugenics solution to the "poor problem" with nods to HG Wells and GB Shaw's 'groundbreaking' work in the field.

    I truly despair.

  6. "..The general consensus is that out of 500 million folk in the EU these poor companies 'just can't get the staff.."

    Says just about all that needs to be said Ian.

    The absurdity is there for all to see. If we can't take the jobs to the cheap labour and we can't bring the cheaper labour to the jobs then the future is lost?

    What employ or train a European - whatever next!

    Dr Cable makes himself look a right twat of a puppet. Bets that he's got an invite to the next Bilderberg anybody?

  7. Duke - the UK has a history of turning the blind eye deaf ear to child labour.

    I seem to recall that Scargill pointed out that closing our pits and importing Colombian coal mined by children was all part of the agenda.....

  8. In protecting our children, she asks, are we causing them harm? And might the youth of Britain benefit from a revival of child labour?

    Oh dear god Your Grace - where the hell are we going?

  9. Duke

    I have to admit I thought, at the start, that this was going to be one of your (always amusing) parodies.

    Absolutely horrifying.

  10. In case anyone missed this one. I came across it in the Dutch newspaper Trouw.

    At the start of the month, Thilo Sarrazin, leading German SPD politician and executive member of the Bundesbank published a book called Germany is effacing itself.

    In the book, Sarazzin outlines Germany’s main problem- “the prodigious fertility of Muslim immigrants.” As well as outbreeding Germans, he also ascribes lower intelligence to Muslims:

    “When people with a high degree of education continue to have a below-average fertility rate, compared to an above-average fertility rate of people with a low degree of education, this will over time be detrimental to the intellectual potential of the population.”

    In an interview in Welt am Sonntag he shamelessly resurrected the “Jewish Gene” theory which has haunted Germany’s recent history- “All Jews share a certain gene, Basques have certain genes, which differentiate them from others.” He goes on to make other derogatory terms about Muslims,

    What makes this exceptionally worrying is not only the fact this comes form a respected member of Germany’s political and financial class but that the most provocative excerpts from the book have been published enthusiastically in Bild and Der Spiegel and he has had numerous interviews in other newspapers and TV.

    It appears that slowly, extreme right views are not only becoming acceptable in Germany, but are viewed as serious contributions to public debate.

    Add in Wilders in the Netherlands, Sarkozy and the Roma and the Fidesz party in Hungary’s anti-semitism and you do wonder if Europe is facing the same phenomenon as the 1930’s- the scapegoat for the failures of capitalism.

  11. Sheff/Jennifer,

    the caveat is, is that it's not been aired yet so it is impossible to ascertain the attitude and recommendations.

    However, the puff piece couldn't be any more clearer.

    modern-day notions of the 'priceless child' who ought to be immersed in education and shielded from harsh economic reality.

    WTF? I hadn't realised that there is something inherently wrong in wanting your children to be as highly educated as possible.

    n protecting our children, she asks, are we causing them harm? And might the youth of Britain benefit from a revival of child labour?

    No and No. Why is this up for debate? And is there even the slightest, tiny chance that the twunts debating this have themselves shielded their children from harsh economic reality by educating them as highly as possible.

    Remember that daft neo-beveridge report I did on UT2? It was supposed to be satire, it appears to be becoming prophecy.

  12. Sarrazin has been forced to step down from his job at the central bank so there's still some embarrassment about.

    He also sports a version of 'that' moustache

  13. Well Duke I imagine the people who came up with the idea make their children muck out their own ponies so they know what they are talking about.

  14. heh heh Jenn...thanks for making me laugh. Really needed it!

    I shall make a point of listening to that prog. I don't think she's talking about her kids Yr Grace, or the kids that belong to people such as her good self.

  15. The overwhelming majority of the French are shocked when you tell them about traditional paper rounds in the UK. The idea of a child getting up at five and working for a couple of hours before going to school is totally alien.

    The British do have this reputation of not liking children very much - the relatively recent abolition of corporal punishment, pubs that frown on or ban kids, etc. And when I tell them I was sent to boarding school when I was seven, they think I've stepped out of the pages of Oliver Twist.

  16. Good day all

    I'll try to get the prog too, only LW here but will be on the net.

    "" It is commonly seen as a time for play and learning, but should employment play a more important part?
    She traces the history of child labour in this country, and explores modern-day notions of the 'priceless child' who ought to be immersed in education and shielded from harsh economic reality. ""

    It certainly looks to be the product of some very sloppy thinking ! The notion that all useful activity is necessarily related to paid employment for a start .

    So kids are immersed in education, are they, and don't have any free time ? A far more interesting subject is what do the kids actually do in that free time .

  17. Spike -- c25 years ago I was listening to Radio Jersey, a headteacher was arguing for corporal punishment, completely unknown 30 nautical miles away.

  18. Bring back child labour !

    excellent idea - applying the pricinciple of a minimum wage which diminishes in realtion to the age of worker we will soon have a labour force working for free.

    do away with schools - obviously only those schools which cater for the poor - this would save billions.

    i can see this idea catching on.

    Yes - if they fall asleep or prove inadequate in any way beat them.

  19. I see that someone on waddya has finally outed 'brooklynowes' as BitetheHand's latest reincarnation. I'm surprised that you people didn't spot him months ago. And didn't someone here claim he was Peter Bracken? Poor show, folks.

  20. Oh, hello...!

    Bracken's turned up on the Fête thread to back up his "chum" brooklynowes, just when I'm going out shopping. Anyone fancy an argument?

  21. @anon

    Is that right? I'm not an expert on bitey. He and Bracken do use the same technique of claiming you've said precisely the opposite to what you've actually said, though.

    Although brooklynowes doesn't systematically pat himself on the back and say he's won the argument, which made me doubt he was Bracken.

  22. It certainly looks to be the product of some very sloppy thinking ! The notion that all useful activity is necessarily related to paid employment for a start .

    They wouldn't understand that Frog. if something can't be measured by its monetary worth then its valueless. Look what they've done to education - the idea that seeking after knowledge is a good in itself seems to have been lost. Now its all about training for the treadmill.

    the french are right to be shocked. I do think the Brits have traditionally had an utterly crap attitude towards kids. I went to boarding school at 7 too. My relationship with my parents never recovered from the shock of the separation.

    But I am as tough as old boots and instinctively insubordinate as a result - not that that's necessarily always a good thing. Did things very differently with my own children - who have both grown up to be sociable, charming and (reasonably) well adjusted ( although somewhat anarchic), and they are brilliant with their kids.

    Meant to say earlier Montana, that Rauschenberg is gorgeous. The quote is rather excellent too. Well spotted.

  23. I had worked out quite recently that brooklynowes was his nibs, but I don't out him any more because it is just giving him a stick to beat me with - again.

    He's been pretty well behaved towards me so far, so I just steer clear.

    Re Clegg - needs his arse kicked into touch. Fucking cheek. Atomboy, only 80% of the LibDems do you think? I reckon they are going to haemorrage members at a pulse rate never seen before.

    Feet up, cuppa, eating bizarre but amazing Belgian chocs my mates brought over for me - just had a fried onion flavoured one and it was weirdly gorgeous - and watching the Sherlock Holmes with Robert Downey Jnr and Jude Law which is also weirdly, and surprisingly, gorgeous and much better than I thought it would be.

    Spike - people in France and Spain think we don't like children because, compared to the way they treat their kids, we don't like children. :o)

  24. Brooklynowes is not Bitethehand. You can't temper acerbic wit and cut-through-the-crap to that extent.

  25. It's weird BB - PeterB hasn't engaged with anything Spike wrote but only seeks to sneer. Why does he do it?

  26. I have engaged with the piece, sheff; I alluded to the cliche-ridden shite it is, the featherbrained pragmatism that any communist smuck can hide behind, and the back-handed apology for throat-throtelling East-European satellites his later comments amount to.

    Forgive me if I don't revel in your happy-clappy drivel.

  27. You really are a twat at times, P-Brax. Calling someone else's article "cliche ridden" after the gloop that was your "Easy Rider" article is bloody rich and no mistake.

    Hi, Sheff. God knows. And he's not telling... :o)

  28. PeterBracken, BTH's last alias was licentialiquendi who stopped posting on 18 July after a a long series of deleted posts interspersed with attacks on BeautifulBurnout and AllyF. (I suppose he got pre-mod.)
    Brooklynowes then started posting on 19 July. His cut'n'paste style and tedious repetition and obsessions is unmissable.

    Perhaps you just don't like the idea of a misogynist, stalking headcase like him agreeing so vociferously with your views. Since so few do ever actually agree with you, if I were you, I'd just forget BTH's previous form and embrace him as an enlightened, like-minded proclaimer of truth.

    Incidentally, burnout, I don't believe for a second that you'd already worked it out. Or you would certainly have said so here to defend Peter against the vicious slurs on his name and accusations of sockpuppeting. Wouldn't you?

  29. Ooh, I saw a play yesterday that I am sure you would have really loved.

    It was on at the Globe - went to the matinee with my belgian mates, doing the touristy thing with them for two days so I am knackered (Hampton Court today).

    It was called Bedlam and was done much in the style of a restoration comedy but with a more modern feel to it. Very very funny but also really poignant at times.

    Review here.

  30. Just because you can't string a sentence together P Brax it is very poor form to denigrate the efforts of others, is there really so little in your life that this is how you get your kicks? Very sad.

  31. Peter -- you're seriously going downhill again.

    You didn't engage with everything he said, and even less with the comments which complemented it .

    You've told us you don't drink, OK , but are you not perhaps taking something else ?

    This piffling aggressivity is sperfuflous !

  32. We seem - several of us at least - to have converged on Spike's article at the same time.

    I found it interesting and was thinking about asking for a follow up aricle about communism within a democratic setting - how it presents itself and how it perceived . Is it stronger in rural communities or urban etc ?

    have to see what Spike thinks.

  33. anon

    Like I said, I don't "out" BTH any more. I steer clear of anything involving him. And I have no particular reason to jump to P-Brax's defence.

    I first cottoned on it was him when I got back from hols, so only a couple of weeks ago. I don't know when the "P-Brax is Brooklyn" thing dates from, but I certainly won't "out" him unless he starts his shit with me again, at which point I have no qualms in shouting it from the rooftops.

    As I say, he had been relatively well behaved, but AllyF is another of his betes-noires.

  34. Peter

    I really don't get your need to be so snide. You don't discuss you just vomit ill-nature over everything.

  35. Dave

    You been at the vinasse again?

    You know that should be spelt "superfluxious"



  36. Props Sheff, and BB; Via Word thesaurus It's fuckin' funny, 'cos it's fuckin true!

  37. We'll have to disagree, anon. I might be wrong on the matter of Bitethehand's identity, and if I am I'll humbly concede.

    Davefromfrance - I'm not going downhill, as you call it; I'm taking a legitimate pop at an incandescently banal piece of writing, and the vacuous apologia for Soviet-style politics that appear beneath it.

    And I'm right to say it.

  38. Leni 1831-- follow my link 17.14 yesterday on Spike thread and see the french communists are already in there with everybody else .

    Stacks of different orgs getting together .

  39. BTW Bitterweed, I'm goin' to make it for the bash in Northampton. No scores to settle, just a pint or two to drink.

  40. Peter -- your 'legitimate pop' becomes other peoples' 'fulsome derision' ( TM pbracken ).

  41. frog

    Stacks of different orgs getting together

    Its the kind of solidarity and support that PeterB and his like are completely incapable of creating. Putting down and attempting to belittle people who disagree with them is all they're good for.


    I'm taking a legitimate pop at an incandescently banal piece of writing, and the vacuous apologia for Soviet-style politics that appear beneath it.

    As usual you're seeing what you want to see and not what is actually there.

  42. PeterB

    I'm goin' to make it for the bash in Northampton. No scores to settle, just a pint or two to drink.

    Well, well - there's a turn up. What on earth makes you want to socialise with us?

  43. We're the closest he can manage to friends? Pub 4 me, later pals.

  44. Turm -- Peter has an eye for 'quality', which was the central theme of " Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance " .

    He's very good on music too.

    Nowt so strange as folks .

  45. @bb

    Mea culpa. It was me that accused brooklynowes of being Bracken. It was when he called me a something-or-other Stalinist in very Brackenesque fashion and used just the same technique of claiming I'd written things I hadn't and hoping people wouldn't look back up the thread. He also said how wonderful and right B was, which is in itself horribly suspicious.

    (Also, I can't be doing with Steely Dan.)

    I now bow to the expertise of you CiFologists ;-) and fully admit I was yapping up the wrong birch. Bitey it is then.


    thinking about asking for a follow up aricle about communism within a democratic setting - how it presents itself and how it perceived . Is it stronger in rural communities or urban etc ?

    Whew, that sounds a lot like masses of hard research work. I'll have to think about that and possibly sound out potential sources.

    You might ask Jezza if she's interested first.

  46. Great article spike. Really enjoyed it. Would like to try and get to it next year if I can, although I am too old and lazy for camping (unless someone wants to lend me a Winnebago :p).

  47. @bb


    First come, first served. The first person/couple to baggsie my living-room bed sofa can have it.

  48. BB

    We could have a UT outing to it. I thought we could take a few crates of this.

    And don't worry about camping - these days its positively luxurious.

  49. BB can have the bed. I'd be happy to biv in your garden.

  50. an incandescently banal piece of writing

    Can banality actually be incandescent, Peter? Can something commonplace and uninteresting be intensely bright and brilliant? It sounds a bit oxymoronic to me - perhaps that was your intention? You were trying to be 'pointedly foolish' like the ancient Greeks? I'm only asking because you seem to regard yourself as something of an authority on use of the English language (although I've no earthly idea why).

    fwiw, I thought Spike's piece was extremely well-written. You could learn a lot from his style. (But I'm sure you won't.)

  51. anon -- well I thought "champagne along with a hundred lesser-known but equally entrancing elixirs." was verging on the brackenesque, but otherwise very clear, and informative .

  52. Sorry, dave, but nothing can verge on the brackenesque because nothing can really approach it without being incinerated by the incandescent essence of Peter's luminous prose. Those who try are doomed to fail. It is the exquisite uniqueness of PB's turn of phrase, his soldierly marshalling of celestial hosts of incongruously juxtaposed adverbs and adjectives, his nonpareil ability to transubstantiate a nondescript workaday euphemism into a thing of surreal beauty, his sublime use of ....aah!...oooh!....KERBOOM!

  53. This comment has been removed by the author.

  54. A UT outing to La Fete de L'Huma sounds like a bloody good idea to me :o)

    And anon - your post at 20.33 seems to have a superfluxious "oxy" in it...

  55. "...'quality', which was the central theme of " Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance "

    Indeed it is, Dave, and it's a journey that everyone should make. Pirsig probably didn't realise it at the time, but he wrote a fable about life that ensares us all. Not saying he got to the bottom of it, but fuck me he tried. Admire him for that.

    And, just for you - because you love music.

    Anon: I'm qualifying the adjective - banal - with an adverb to emphasise the banality. Just be clear, for your benefit: the car was ridiculously fast.

  56. BB - your problem is that you live life at half-pressure. Trust me, it'll kill you if you don't realise it, and soon.

  57. Beautifulburnout, it's the 'oxy' in oxymoron that sorts the NCO's out from the officers, and makes the concept of 'pointedly foolish' relevant. Omitting the 'pointedly' from 'pointedly foolish' is a much more serious offence and much in evidence on these threads.

    (ooh, get her! she's gone all 'bracken' again! I'd better stop now, this is surprisingly addictive.)

    Sorry, PeterBracken, just a bit of fun. Nothing personal - I don't share the animosity to you of many posters here. I just think most of your views are a bit bizarre, but you seem like you like a bit of a scrap so what the hell.

  58. Oh dear, Peter, 'ridiculously fast' is not an oxymoron. So it's back to the schoolbooks and the creative writing class with you, young man. Come back when you want to make something else 'clear' for my benefit.
    Or as you said in one of your excellent Cif pieces 'let's make this crystal'. I loved that -you assumed that your audience would understand that you were using the tired old cliche 'crystal clear' (and they did!), and by omitting the 'clear' you not only conveyed a tough tone of South London gangster patois, but you saved a space in your limited word-count for an expansive adjective or a racy adverb. Bravo! Technique is everything, (only us real writers know that).

  59. anon - But I didn't say it was an oxymoron. My example attempted to illustrate the use of adverbs.

    For (another) example, one can be 'luminously stupid'.

  60. hi Peter

    sorry - can't allow that one. Stupidity is associated with being 'dull'. Luminous just doesn't work.

  61. P-Brax

    What on earth does "living life at half-pressure" mean, even? Compared to whom? Or what?

  62. No really Peter, you like Pirsig? Follow his luminous lead, please. Kill your self. No really, I'm not being smart, I'm not going for that popular 'anti Bracken $' really Peter, please, just kill your self.

  63. BB

    Makes you sound as though you have a leaking valve - with your energy seeping out into the air around you !


    I realise it is a huge task - would be nice to have something about a society with strong left wing movement. Perhaps we can come up with a particular aspect which would ignite discussion .

  64. Fair enough, Peter. So you used an oxymoron without even realising it?(Kinda defeats the purpose of an oxymoron.) Ah well, I suppose it happens to the best of us.

    I'll look forward to your next Cif piece - how about writing it without any adverbs? That should clarify the thought processes wonderfully - the honest striving for content, meaning and clarity instead of dubious linguistic effects. :0)

  65. as going to write 'promote discussion ' but decided to be a bit florid.

  66. Ha, post with out research, Pirsig lives! Urban myth that he took his own life. But don't let that stop you Major B!

  67. turm -that was unworthy of you .

    As Peter said, Pirsig tried. Take some Rachmaninov !

  68. That was well dodge, Turm. :(

    Leni - haven't quite worked it out. Or why it will kill me. I would have thought full pressure would be more likely to kill someone really. Hmm.

  69. Too kind DFF,but I'm not very worthy. Peter's post about Montana has lost him all grace and favour. As Anon said a day or two ago, he's not a shit writer, he's just shit.

  70. @Sheff

    Afraid I don't have a garden in Paris. I have a balcony though.


    Admittedly, entrancing elixirs is a bit purple, but I don't think it sent anyone rushing for their dictionary. Perhaps I'll go for pellucid panaceas or nurturant nectars next time. :-)

  71. So far Peter's come up with Rachmaninov (a few times) and Chopin (once, I think). How about another Russian this for instance, for a change. A bit more meat and less romance.

  72. I'd be happy with the balcony Spike. If ever you're in Sheffield my balcony is at your service. I have a very comfortable hammock on it which i often sleep in on warm nights.

  73. BB

    perhaps you will slowly deflate like a leaky balloon ?

    Peter's imagery does tickle my imagination - not sure it takes me in the direction he intends.


    long time since I read Zen and ... but I seem to remember he strives for both the romantic and the practical. Not much to disagree with there in terms of trying to bring balance and creativity into your life but as a model for writing it does tend to create some odd images.

  74. Turminder - your last comment to PeterB along the same lines was beneath contempt. Please just stop it.

  75. "Stupidity is associated with being 'dull'. Luminous just doesn't work."

    But that's the point of the description, leni: the juxtaposition of registers makes the words dance, as any telling phrase should.

    Here's another: 'the regressive consciousness of communism'.

    anon: and yet, everyone should write with the Romantics like Liszt in mind: the double-note clangour of their rhetoric. Not worth reading, otherwise.

    turminder: you've lost it, along with the cadaver's rights you sought to protect.

    BB: the half pressure's yours alone. That's the tragedy of it.

  76. @Sheff

    I'm still hoping a mate is going to get us tickets for Old Trafford in November. If I'm up that way, perhaps I can make it across to Sheffield and have a pint or two with anyone available. Is there a plaque outside Jarvis Cocker's old house?

  77. Hey, sheff: I'm smitten - the Fifth is my favourite symphony (of all symphonies); the third movement is the epitome of the human condition.

  78. Peter

    uxtaposition of rgisters may dance for you - for me they clash. the image become static.

    "Slow dropping veils of thinnest lawn did go" - describing a waterfall.

    "Iwill follow knowledge like a shooting star, beyond the utmost bounds of human thought"

    both are coherent in description , intention of writer and (importantly) in form. They create an image.

    Can you have stupidly luminescent ? Yes, but only to describe something or body which felt it was moving stealthily through the dark , completely invisible while covered in flashing lights.

  79. Ah...Liszt....what an old romantic you are Peter. If you insist on romance, how about some of this

  80. Alright guys, this is how I see it, this place is like a pub. It's our pub. But... MW set it up so that makes it her pub. Now you might not get on with the landlady, however... Bracken was outrageously offensive to her, her child, and about the experiences she has honestly shared with us.

    He deserves no respect and should get a good shoeing. You all compliment him on the Rach 3, and try to give him tips on writing. Me, I'll drink elsewhere, and should I cross paths with him, I'll call him the excrescence he is. NN.

  81. Spike

    I promise MsC, Princess and I (and anyone else who can get over), will give you an day/afternoon/evening you won't forget.

    I don't know about JC's old house - but I know people who do. Visits can be arranged.

  82. This comment has been removed by the author.

  83. Turminder - yes, PB was outrageously offensive to Montana - but what you said, both today and on the 14th, or whenever it was, does not make up for that offence. It adds to it. Expressing a wish that someone should take their own life is unforgiveable.

    Sorry for the deletion. On second thoughts, I didn't feel that any useful purpose could be served by quoting.

  84. I can't quite work out what the motivation is for trying to be the most offensive here is all about. Something of a worthless contest - must have hidden rewards that I am unable to appreciate.

  85. @shaz

    I thought "kill your self" was very zen and highly apposite advice. Was it intended to be "kill yourself"?


    OK, that sounds great. I'll definitely try and make it. But I've been to Yorkshire before. You have to let me buy drinks. I didn't get a look in the last time I was there, in Bradford. They physically prevented me from buying a round.

  86. Evening all

    I don't know how many people here are fans of the
    Queen of Soul but this track has a blues flavour to it and IMO it's Aretha at her best.

  87. Oh OK. I didn't see Turm's subsequent post. I was a bit confused by the space and because Pirsig's still alive. Right, I'm staying out of this one.

  88. Neither can I Leni. Am off to my pit with Amos Oz - The Slopes of Lebanon - excellent book.

    Final tune - Come Tenderness

  89. You have to let me buy drinks.

    Ah well Spike - we'll have that discussion when you get here...you know Yorkshire! Bring some decent Calvados.

  90. The 'excrescence' that I am, however, can still appreciate music; I'd never heard that piece before, sheff: thank you and thank you again.

    shazthewombat: I'm not for one moment deflecting from your efforts to make this site the civilised forum it should be (and against which my own comments usually kick) but turminder's anger is mine alone to shoulder; let him exhaust it, and if he can't, let me live with it.

    Truly shaz, turminder can say whatever he likes, whenever. It'd be harder for me to stomach his departure from this site on my account.

  91. @Sheff

    You're on.

    By the way, at the Fête, there were posters for a theatrical company called Jolie Mome, whose logo looks very like your avatar.

    Have a look at the link.

  92. Hi folks, interesting stuff. Peace and love as per usual, I see. In the spirit of the muzak thing, here's some Koreans doing Beethoven's 9th which gave us the EU anthem

    kang mae

    and here's how Kubrik saw it

    clockwork orange

    Schiller's Ode To Joy, eh? What's it all about? What does it all mean?

  93. spike

    My avatar is from an Alexander Rodchenko print. Am a massive fan of the Constructivists. There was a brilliant exhibition at the Tate Modern a year or so ago. I periodically get the catalogue out and have a wallow.

  94. I went to that exhibition. Very good. The rest of the Tate is cobblers though.

  95. Hi Turminder

    Come on man you don't really want PB dead.There's far worse in the world than our Major.Here's a tune for you from the late great Teddy Pendergrass

  96. Spike

    see LesterJ has asked you for another thread - well done.

    better get your thinking cap on.

  97. This comment has been removed by the author.

  98. Oops deleted that one by mistake.Shouldn't post when 'tired and emotional.'

    Where's the night shift ?

    Here's a couple of tunes before they come on duty and i pass out.

    1)Will Downing

    2)Maze feat Frankie Beverley

  99. Hi paul

    i'm here but too tired to think.

  100. And this Mass Production track from when i was a kid.

  101. Hi Leni

    Just relax and enjoy the music for a while.

  102. @Sheff

    Excellent. I must go and see Jolie Mome sometime, I like Brecht.


    We'll see whether Jess wants another one. I wonder how the Graun will feel about too many pieces favourable to the PCF. Perhaps another subject, in the right political vein, but not directly communist.

  103. @Leni-you like Joni Mitchell don't you so here's one of my favourite tracks from her.

    Hi Spike.

  104. Spike

    Cif needs somebody speaking from the left, for the left and to the left.

    the paucity of political discussion adds to the sterility of the site - the political stuff on there is just the same old same old - justs keeps the same arguments going round in circles. we all keep saying the same thing again and again - or we stop commenting.

    Cif needs a 'gateway' to a broader discussion.

  105. Hi Paul.

    Sure, Leni, but what we feel it needs may not be what those in control are willing to let it have. You saw the Natalie Hanman thread. On certain issues, there's apparently no intention to change anything.

  106. Second, to achieve that goal, coalition with the Tories was the only option. Confronted with a hung parliament, many of those who backed the Lib Dems in the election, including this newspaper, preferred the idea of a pact with Labour. But the parliamentary arithmetic made that a tricky proposition to pull off; the decay of Labour's discipline and authority under a failed prime minister made it ultimately impossible. Gordon Brown's party was clearly ready for opposition; only the Tories offered the prospect of effective, stable government.



    Above from Observer Editorial. You could well be right.

  107. Here's something very haunting, music by Marcel Khalifa, words by the great Palestinian poet Mahmoud Darwish.

    A Child

  108. And here's Oumaima Al Khalil singing a capella. Fabulous voice.


  109. Darwish - a wonderful man.

  110. Wish I could sing quarter tones. Never been able to properly.

  111. Absolutely, Leni. I never had the privilege of meeting him, but my ex-wife knew him. I have a treasured engraved Al Asifa badge that he gave to her for me in the 80s.

  112. Spike

    Brooklyn has addressed you on your thread - a bit of a giveaway contained therein.

  113. What, living in a communist dictatorship?

  114. Yup - Bitey lives and works in China.

    Mind - I don't want BTH banned again. That was careless of him.

  115. Leni/Spike

    There's so much intrigue on these boards.People with multiple identities etc.You never know who the fuck you're talking too.Where's Habib btw and philippa ? Maybe Habib and philippa are one and the same person.Maybe Spike and Leni are one and the same person.Maybe you're all MAM and MAM has simply mutated over time.I,m fucking confused !

  116. Right i,m off now.Goodnight whoever you are and wherever you are.


  117. Wow, if I were Leni too, I'd have to be very, very schizophrenic! Spike isn't exactly the calmest person around.

    I have a little something planned for brooklynowes, I just have to wait for the right place and moment.

  118. Yeah, I'll be off to bed too. I must do loads of work tomorrow, I've been neglecting it the last few days.

    G'night Leni and Paul!

  119. Night Spike . Sleep well x

  120. Actually i know Leni's real and i,m sure you are too Spike.I,m off me head at the moment.

    For Leni x


  121. Just back from well after closing-time, it being 3.30 in Frogland .

    Will pop off an see what 'pollution' is on the Spikethread ...

  122. Only brookley . Hardly worth the ammo.

  123. Frog

    If you have time read the editorial on Clegg - and despair.

  124. Too drunk to sleep so me and cat are awake whilst me partner sleeps.

    Found this load of bolloxin the Observer.

    Long term employment leads to an increased risk of both mental and physical health problems and increased risk in the rate of relationship breakdowns but some tosser has now decided the unemployed are as happy as the employed.You accept the right wing press to promote such crap but yet again the Guardian/Observer has decided to jump on the bandwagon.How can anyone survive on JSA FFS and feel happy.Unless they all off their heads by 'self medicating.'

  125. Right i,m definely off now .Will leave you all with this tune from Donny Hathaway