04 September 2010

04/09/10


One who is allowed to sin, sins less.
-Ovid

332 comments:

  1. Morning Montana,

    I hope you're feeling better?

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  2. Leni said this yesterday:

    The times they are a changing. The hidden places have been discovered and colonised - an attempt to standardise values and impose them on us all.

    Can't have the rough and ready, the spontaneous or the 'different' at any price. These artificial values of 'worth' are spreading and being copied - the consumer society and 'appearances' are all.

    ......

    Marks and Spencer "seconds" were once - and probably still are - a good buy because M&S insisted that the colour of, for example, a coat had to be exactly the same from the beginning to the end of a production run, so any variation was rejected.

    Why?

    You can eat a McDonald's from Peru to Russia to Australia and it will always taste the same.

    Again, why is this so necessary?

    The same applies to people, of course, who become brands once they become famous.

    Thus, Cheryl Tweedie becomes Cheryl Cole and Cheryl Cole becomes Cherry Cola and now has to keep the same smile and pucker her nose in the same way and wink because these are all parts of her brand image.

    If she now beat up a cloakroom attendant, it would not be the criminal proceedings which would be worrying - the battered woman would simply be bought - but damage limitation and saving the brand.

    We now see "sameness" as good, comfortably dumb and reassuring and difference as riddled with danger and ready to undermine our safety.

    We have people who are famous for being famous and companies which succeed on the basis that we always say, 'I want one of those so that I can be like everyone else.'

    We always seem to want to be made in the image of something, whether our god or our parents' idea of how we should or shouldn't be or someone from a film or book or whatever our political, cultural and corporate overlords suggest.

    If anyone suggested that we should simply be cloned or churned out in a factory from templates agreed by a committee, though, there would be an outcry.

    "I am me!"

    "I am unique!"

    "I am a man, not a number!"

    People would say anything and then see nothing and do nothing.

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  3. Good poster at the top there.

    I went to an exhibition of original Spanish Civil War posters at the Imperial War Museum a few years back.

    I can't think of another conflict where posters played such a central part of propaganda on both sides. The estimate alone for the number of posters produced on the Republican side was 5,000.

    For me, the most disturbing poster was The "military" practice of the rebels. If you will tolerate this, your children will be next.

    An appeal to France and Britain which proved eerily prescient and inspired the Manic Street Preachers song If you tolerate this your children will be next.

    The full poster catalogue can be found here

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  4. "One who is allowed to sin, sins less."

    I'm wondering whether this is a tautology. A permitted sin isn't a sin, is it? Then again, I suppose Ovid had in mind a list of immutable sins, in which case we're looking at the traditional wisdom about sex and drugs: most young people do it for the thrill of its wickedness. A weightwatching friend certainly makes the most of her permitted sins.

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  5. BTW Martyn: your 'love letters' to someone or other are trapped in the spam folder. Would you like me to free them, or has your ardour cooled?

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  6. Martyn

    Just looked in to survey the damage..no big advance on your "fuck off and die"..."bowel Cancer".."go fuck your mother", I see

    Would your mother be proud of her little marty for that lot...would she 'understand' when you told her "yeah..but he said I was boring..what was I supposed to do...I'm 'Martyn in Europe'...THE 'Martyn in Europe'...people can't talk to me like that"?

    No wonder they gave you that fuckin C...'radical',well-balanced, proportionate in all your deliberations, elegant prose stylist, devastatingly original critiques of..erm...stuff..and..er..other stuff

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  7. btw...I know you have trouble distinguishing tone...the above WAS sarcasm Martyn...I really think you're a little, self-obsessed nobody

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  8. Ah! it seems M.Fish was the object of your desire.

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  9. martillo

    "BTW Martyn: your 'love letters' to someone or other are trapped in the spam folder. Would you like me to free them, or has your ardour cooled?"

    Are you crazy martillo? Would you hold back on an undiscovered Nabokov...a previously unknown Salinger which someone had dropped into your wheelie bin?

    Release it martillo...you owe it to the world

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  10. I'm not quite sure of the moral implications here monkeyfish. Would Nabokov want me to pass his musings on to The News of the World if he'd chucked them in my bin last night? I think I'll wait for MIE. Or Montana.

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  11. Then again he didn't chuck them in a bin, he sent them for publication. And I'm supposed to mark all comments as 'not spam. Ah fuck it: publish and be spammed.

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  12. Charles


    "Instead of arguing who was the 'original sinner' or over 'who started it' and using this as a justification for petulent and childish behaviour, ie setting up multiple accounts and trolling on Waddya- surely the best thing to do is be as upstanding and mature as possible- a surefire way of winning and preserving your integrity. The old arguement about stooping to their level, I believe."

    One of those strange moments of synchronicity..no sooner do I mention Salinger than I notice you auditioning as Holden Caulfield..

    Coupla points

    1) Some typos seem to acquire a self-referential function which often render them more objectively significant than the ostensible 'meaning' of the text...if you're gonna call someone 'petulent', then learn to fuckin spell it...or are you 'disleksik'?

    2) 'Integrity'..FFS!!...are you referring to the way I've abused the trust of those nice people up at the Guardian by sneaking back into their party when they'd made it plain my presence was 'destroying the vibe'?...and in doing so, having the brass fuckin neck to substitute one pseudonym for another? get a grip

    3) "Instead of arguing who was the 'original sinner' or over 'who started it'"

    There is no fuckin argument..it's all there...a matter of record

    4) Who the fuck made you arbiter of what constitutes trolling? Trolling is a value-laden term which people chuck about when they don't agree with someone...for some, trolling is regularly calling into question the hypocrital stance of a newspaper pretending to be something it plain isn't...for others it's asking someone if it's "time for them to fuck their mother" (copyright: a poster for whom you have lots of respect...don't tell me..he's usually a 'class act' and he was driven to it by outrageous abuse?)

    5) I had a mate once whose son reached 16, read a bit of Chomsky, Gramsci, Sartre..probably even Catcher in the Rye..and started going around in a battered old tweed jacket dispensing pseudo-profundity to all in the vicinity. Next thing the precocious little fucker would answer any question with a smartarse "What?..you mean in an existential sense?" or a "I don't conform to norms of manufactured consent" or, best of all "The challenge of modernity is to live without illusions and without becoming disillusioned."

    One of my funniest and fondest memories is of sitting on a wall with his dad on a Sunny day working our way through eight cans of beer as this adolescent 'single-minded self-reliant Renaissance man of the world' spent 3 hours trying to fit a distributor cap to his clapped out Fiesta...daft twat puts me in mind of someone

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  13. Ah, I was wondering how yesterday's thread was continueing to grow, but I was still the last post...

    Like Spanish queues, it gets wider, rather than longer.

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  14. monkeyfish

    I had a mate once whose son reached 16, read a bit of Chomsky, Gramsci, Sartre..probably even Catcher in the Rye..and started going around in a battered old tweed jacket dispensing pseudo-profundity to all in the vicinity. Next thing the precocious little fucker would answer any question with a smartarse "What?..you mean in an existential sense?" or a "I don't conform to norms of manufactured consent" or, best of all "The challenge of modernity is to live without illusions and without becoming disillusioned."

    Very good! The seamless blending of philosophical references, long words and profanity is almost Brackenesque...

    Oh, and I'm disleksik. Is that a problem?

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  15. ...as this adolescent 'single-minded self-reliant Renaissance man of the world' spent 3 hours trying to fit a distributor cap to his clapped out Fiesta...

    You're a harsh man MF. You're allowed to be a bit of a twat at 16 - in fact it's practically mandatory. How did he turn out?

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  16. From toddler to teenager, we try to sidle and segue into a world in which we know we do not properly belong, so we try to disguise ourselves behind the 'maturity' which we hope is the invitation card which will never be examined or refused.

    Our determination to be members of the club blinds us from noticing that the sensible ones who got there sooner are now walking past us in the opposite direction, trying to outgrow and live down their maturity.

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  17. Right, demo this afternoon in Paris at 2 pm, place de la République, against Sarkozy's revolting, racist "security measures". Hope there's going to be a lot of us.

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  18. "Like Spanish queues, it gets wider, rather than longer. "

    Ha ha, very good! I hear this also happens in Britain these days.

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  19. Funnyest thing I have seen in a year. Peter Bracken's hero showing his customary incisiveness!

    Bono for PM

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  20. "You're a harsh man MF. You're allowed to be a bit of a twat at 16 - in fact it's practically mandatory."

    oh agreed..but just cos you've got an excuse for being a twat, doesn't mean people aren't gonna laugh at you when you're being a twat..especially when you've just told them you don't care what they think cos they're sold out and their minds have been closed by corporate brain-washing...especially as you stand there in your Nike trainers and ask for a few quid to nip to McDonalds

    "How did he turn out?"

    He was an estate agent last I heard

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  21. Martillo,

    Ha ha, very good! I hear this also happens in Britain these days.

    I first noticed it after I had been here a few weeks. I joined a queue to get my ID card behind about 20 people - an hour later I was still at the back of the queue, but there were around a hundred people in front of me...

    It's the same everywhere - people see nothing wrong with serving their friends before anyone else, saving a space for their entire extended family, or just pushing in at the front.

    I tried swearing at them in Spanish, but they took no notice, so now I launch a torrent of abuse in English, which seems to completely freak them out.

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  22. exiled

    "Very good! The seamless blending of philosophical references, long words and profanity is almost Brackenesque..."

    almost?..that's an interesting* observation...what's it missing..what would make it quintessentially Brackenesque?

    "Oh, and I'm disleksik. Is that a problem?"

    it appears not to be..at least not since you learned how to use the spellchecker

    * Since you strike me as another with a tin-ear for tone...I'd just like to point out that I meant 'interesting' in the sense of 'Steve "Interesting" Davis'

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  23. morning all! hope you are all well...looks like things have been going swimmingly during my distracted period.

    have managed to obtain continuing employment until the end of the year at least, so that's a weight off me mind. unfortunately, quite a lot of other crap flying around at the moment, hence distraction. but think that's starting to get sorted. have not had the attention span or the energy to follow much in the way of news. will be knuckling down now...

    plus something just posted on waddya, on local issues:
    ***************
    quick update for anyone interested in the ongoing saga of Montpellier's statues, following Alexander Chancellor's article

    The NPA (anti-capitalist party) points out the contrast between €1.8 million spent on statues because they amuse one guy versus the need for regeneration of certain quartiers, social housing, etc, (still the highest unemployment rate in France) meanwhile fares go up for everyone who uses public transport. The (Socialist Party) Mayor is boycotting the offficial opening on 17 September (she has 'other things to do', apparently). She's also got an essay coming out in november about her bust-up with Georges ooh-who-shall-we-put-up-next-maybe-Pol-Pot? Freche. She's also denied that she's firing her head of cabinet, as Freche has been telling everybody. Basic translation of her official statement: "yet again, Georges Freche sounds off about something he knows nothing about and I'm not going to bother issuing denials every time he goes off on one". The PS has also chucked out its former fed secretary of the region because he supported Freche during the regional elections.

    So - politics down here going really really well at the moment, and Freche isn't even back at work full-time yet. Imagine things will kick off in a big way when he does...once he's responded to rapper Sefyu , who's decided to get involved as well.

    Great stuff. Next step will surely be an actual fist fight.

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  24. Just in case anyone missed this one.

    US soldiers punished for not attending Christian rock concert.

    80 soldiers refused to attend a 'BarlowGirl concert organised by Major General William E. Chambers. Chambers, a born again christian has organised regular 'Spiritual fitness concerts' for the army based at Fort Eustis, Virginia.

    BarlowGirl describe themselves as taking "an aggressive, almost warrior-like stance when it comes to spreading the gospel and serving God."

    The soldiers who refused to attend (including muslim soldiers) were marched back to base and issued a punishment by NCO's. An investigation is under way into what appears to be a violation of strict seperation of Church v State in the army.

    Onward Christian soldiers.....

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  25. I think things are changing (at least here) exiled. Most official departments and the most popular stalls in the market have automatic numbering systems. And in the shops nearly everyone asks "who's last?" I love the answer: "your servant!"

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  26. spike

    Hope all goes well. Why don't you take some pics and post them in the gallery? And steer clear of the CRS and any flying cobbles!

    MF

    An estate agent? So the Chomsky and Gramsci didn't stick. Sad waste of a promising start. His Pa must be gutted.

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  27. bloody hell, your grace.

    "Following the Apostle Paul's message to the Ephesians in the Bible, Christian rock music's edgy, all-girl band BarlowGirl brought the armor of God to the warriors and families of Fort Eustis during another installment of the Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concert Series May 13 at Jacobs Theater."

    seems odd that a girl-band would be citing Ephesians, but that's just me, praps...

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  28. monkeyfish

    almost?..that's an interesting* observation...what's it missing..what would make it quintessentially Brackenesque?

    "Quintessentially" certainly helps, but you haven't quite captured the sense of bruised, fragile pride that PB projects in every post. I just don't think you're sensitive enough.

    it appears not to be..at least not since you learned how to use the spellchecker

    I don't use the spellchecker - I came to the conclusiuon that dyslexic was (in my case) a trendy diagnosis of "shit at spelling". I'm still shit at spelling, but less shit than a lot of people who haven't been diagnosed as dyslexic.

    * Since you strike me as another with a tin-ear for tone...I'd just like to point out that I meant 'interesting' in the sense of 'Steve "Interesting" Davis'

    I've got a tin-ear for tone? Just what do you think my comment was inspired by? Anger? Hurt?

    Physician, heal thyself....

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  29. Commanding General's Spiritual Fitness Concerts.

    Jesus H....Yr Grace. I'd like to see them try that one here.....

    Hi Phillipa...you've been missed.

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  30. @Philippa

    Welcome home!

    I don't think Generals should be trusted with religion.

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  31. Terrifying, Duke. Just terrifying.

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  32. they tried having a 'christian band' at school once, playing in assembly. but they set up the hall with chairs. i suggested losing the chairs and actually trying to make it like a gig. no dice. so we all just sat there, while vaguely competent indie-rock with deeply sincere lyrics about jesus was thrown at us. band looked utterly desperate at the total lack of interaction. felt a bit sorry for them.

    not too sorry, however. this was shortly after I'd been banned from doing any more music assemblies after playing 50 Ft Queenie at full volume in the chapel.

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  33. "His Pa must be gutted"

    No..as I recall he was glad he'd 'found' a cheap flat and fucked off...luckily he kept nipping back with a bag of dirty washing and some timely philosophical interventions; although over time they mutated into little aphorisms more suited to an aspiring young real-estate professional..

    I saw him in the pub about this time and he filled me in on how it was basically only the financial sector and the skill, sacrifice and dedication of the 'housing market' entrepreneurs who were keeping the economy booming...thank fuck for adolescent self-delusion..where would we be without it?

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  34. Spike,

    I was reading that the last time France revoked naturalised citizens nationality for non capital crimes was under the Vichy regime.

    Sarkozy is applying these laws to naturalized citizens who clash with police. He is also threatening parents of juvenile delinquents with jail time if the children violate restrictions placed on them.

    Holding families responsible for actions of other family members. I believe this was called the Sippenhaft policy in the Third Reich and its associated states.

    Philippa/Sheff/Spencer,

    apparently this is the latest in an increasing campaign to 'christianize' the US Army.

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  35. PeterJ - would you rather trust Generals with religion or clerics with control of armed forces? the two seem like equally epically bad ideas...

    and thank you for the welcomeback, peeps.

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  36. Where's my post gone?

    Any chance of someone rescueing it from the spam folder?

    Not that it wasn't spam....

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  37. "...thank fuck for adolescent self-delusion..where would we be without it?"

    That was rhetorical...I know where we'd be..

    ...probably living in Spain, writing Frederick Forsythe style exposes of fuckin common knowledge and telling anyone who didn't think we were all that interesting to go and die of cancer or fuck their mothers

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  38. PeterJ

    I don't think Generals should be trusted with religion.

    Not even in the Salvation Army?

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  39. "Not that it wasn't spam...."

    I'd leave it to other people to make that judgement exiled.

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  40. exiled

    OK..not spam...that wasn't bad as it goes

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  41. Wybourne

    apparently this is the latest in an increasing campaign to 'christianize' the US Army.

    Oh, so when GWB used the "C" word - that's crusade, not cunt, obviously - it was not that this was wrong in itself, but just the timing and, perhaps, letting the cat out of the bag too soon.

    So, we are going to have another war and we all need to seriously think about which side we are going to be on - the goodies or the baddies.

    Are atheists allowed to be stretcher-bearers?

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  42. Cheers Martillo.

    monkeyfish

    I'd leave it to other people to make that judgement exiled.

    You think? I doubt if I'll ever find a kinder critic than myself.

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  43. atomboy
    "that's crusade, not cunt, obviously "

    hehehehe.heheheheheheh.

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  44. I'm increasingly unsure that I would be on the side of the atheists. Those uber-atheists on CIF are doing my head in.

    You can't have a sensible discussion without them ranting on and on, making the same basic, simplistic points. Any halfwitted Christian fundie can come on and derail a thread because they feel the need to go into a point by point rebuttal of total idiocy.

    There is a thread this morning about the Big Bang and the ATL guy is a physicist. He explicitly says in the article that the Big Bang doesn't require a god to set it off. But earlier on he refers to St Augustine in time. Obviously, some of the atheists never bothered reading down after that. The mention of a Christian is enough to convince them that he must be arguing for God. So blah! blah! blah! Attack! Attack! Attack! There isn't a god. We don't need a god of the gaps...

    Which is just annoying. But more serious is the elevation of Science to a faith position.

    They sound more and more like religious zealots to me and no more attractive.

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  45. monkeyfish

    Yeah, but that was from their heyday.

    It all went downhill after that.

    I think the latest one is just the bloke in the red shirt shagging the dog.

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  46. @Sheff

    Shouldn't think I'll have any problems with the CRS, I'm with the Parti Communiste Accueil-Sécurité, so I'll be "policing" the demo myself (which mainly consists of dissuading motorists from trying to drive through the crowd).

    PCF sections of demos are generally pretty well organised, so any rock-throwers or looters tend to operate well away from us.

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  47. Spencer

    But more serious is the elevation of Science to a faith position.

    I think the problem comes from the difficulty some people have accepting that some things can't be, or may never be, explained.

    Atheism shouldn't be an alternative to religion, in seeking to fill in the gaps in our knowledge with faith - it should recognise that our understanding is limited.

    Those who have a need to believe that everything is explicable, should go with their instinct and get religion. A lot of them have done just that, but I wish they wouldn't call it science...

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  48. Very funny, MF. Seriously.

    Now, you make like to argue me all you want, I don't as it is a nice sunny Saturday, but really when it comes to someone half your age having to tell you the basic manners and conventions of civilised society, it is quite telling of your position. I stand by my comment. You created this mess yourself.

    I'm sorry but I am not going to fall into your stereotype of us young uns (hliarious though it was). Although one piece of 'advice', if you and Hank and Atomboy, even Scherfig, if you lot actually did something productive instead of drunkenly ranting on an internet discussion board you might get somewhere and bring about your fantasy revolution.

    Martyn is a better poster than you, Bracken is a better poster than you, even Steve Hill is/was a better poster, who was forced out by the baying mobs on here. He was right, you rabble are an active discouragment for the left and precisely why I will have nothing to do with leftism or socialism(although I support many aspects of the left for humanist reasons).

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  49. Atomboy

    do you have to cheapen everything? That wasn't just some 'funny video'; it was a heartfelt call for an end to institutionalised religious gender stereotyping and inequality


    I was really trying to make the case for women bishops in the CofE

    after all Samuel Johnson's famously dismissive..

    "Sir, a woman's preaching is like a dog's walking on his hind legs. It is not done well; but you are surprised to find it done at all."

    ..kinda disappears up its own backside when confronted with the 'Merengue Dog'

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  50. Duke, that's very disturbing.

    I guess Joseph Heller had the US military accurately pegged more than 40 years ago.

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  51. Charles, you're allowed to be naive, but come on:

    "Martyn is a better poster than you, Bracken is a better poster than you, even Steve Hill is/was a better poster, who was forced out by the baying mobs on here."

    That's just silly talk. :-)

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  52. monkeyfish

    do you have to cheapen everything?

    Yes.

    ..kinda disappears up its own backside...

    So you have seen the sequel...

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  53. "You created this mess yourself."

    What mess?..seriously..what mess?

    I assume you mean the mess which prevents little nobodies posting non-contentious, non-threatening mutually-supportive drivel with impunity...that's not a mess..that's called criticism...like I say: your judgement is seriously fucked.

    "although I support many aspects of the left for humanist reasons"

    I'm sure the left is dancing (like a Merengue dog) at the news.

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  54. @The Duke

    Interestingly, Sarkozy is being attacked by an awful lot of his own side. He's behaving like a leader of the Front National and a lot of right-wingers with Republican values are absolutely appalled, including plenty of UMP heavyweights. Even Sarkozy's own prime minister, Fillon, has maintained a deafening silence over the whole affair.

    I'm pretty sure Sarko (or Naboleon, as he's often called - not very PC: a nabot is a nasty dwarf) won't be standing again as the official candidate of the Right in 2012.

    I just hope he doesn't employ the traditional strategy of his kind and take France into a war between now and then. It worked for Thatcher.

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  55. Welcome back Philippa.

    Spencer that thread is just the same old Cif Belief although I did get a giggle from the idea of Ebay tkmax asking his children if ants knew about Tesco.

    The atheists maybe tiresome sometimes but you still generally have to rely on the religious for the truly bizarre.

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  56. @Sheff

    Talking about Accueil Sécurité and the CRS, I was thinking about something that happened quite a few years back. There was a demo of steelworkers in Paris and the CGT AS (or Service d'Ordre as it was called then) made a citizen's arrest on a bloke who was breaking windows in full view of the CRS (who waded in on the demo, tear gas and batons, but those steelworkers were hard buggers and gave as good as they got). The window-smasher was stupid enough to be carrying his police warrant card! That went on the front page of l'Humanité, which was then the official paper of the CP. Red faces at the Ministère de l'Intérieur! :-)

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  57. Spike

    I just hope he doesn't employ the traditional strategy of his kind and take France into a war between now and then. It worked for Thatcher.

    So, it could be war between America and France?

    Blimey! I knew the French did not like the Disneyfied global cultural hegemony of America, but do you think this is wise?

    Still, America seems to want to have a war with someone and they will obviously be able to use Airstrip One as a base of operations.

    It's not kicking off this weekend, though, is it? I wanted a decent rest.

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  58. Nap

    'f you lot actually did something productive instead of drunkenly ranting on an internet discussion board you might get somewhere and bring about your fantasy revolution'.

    What makes you think that people posting here don't do 'something productive' IRL? Many do.

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  59. Spike "I just hope he doesn't employ the traditional strategy of his kind and take France into a war between now and then. It worked for Thatcher."

    Hang on, aren't we supposed to be combining navies?

    Still, I suppose we could do over Belgium.

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  60. I've just had a 'poke about' BarlowGirl's back catalogue so you don't have to. Here's some sample lyrics from "million voices":

    We were made to start the riot, take on the impossible and we will stay the giants,
    We are done with fake religion fighting now to find the movement. Won't stop till we find it


    In the 'girlpower' league it kind of puts 'ziga-zig-aah' in the shade, don't you think?

    Apparently if you play a BarlowGirl album backwards you can hear the planes hit the twin towers whilst Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly and Glen Beck chant quotes from Revelations and Aleister Crowley's selected works all the while being flayed alive by Beelzebub's minions.

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  61. @Atomboy

    Sarkozy loves the USA (although probably not Obama).

    No, like Thatcher and all bullies, he'd engineer an excuse to fight some underarmed country that he'd be sure of winning against.

    Like the Americans attacking Grenada (pop. 100,000) so they could actually score a win after the humiliation of Vietnam.

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  62. war between america and france?
    sarko's not that daft. am guessing belgium, or something else more manageable, as a starting point.

    hello jen (and spencer)!
    agree that some of the ahem harder-line atheist voices can be a bit scary, but i do try to remember what they are predominantly kicking against - think that some of them have had such bizarre arguments in the past with full on YETIs that any mention of anything even vaguely religious puts them into full military mode. understand that.

    but do tend to avoid those threads, as i usually end up being yelled at by both ends of the spectrum.

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  63. spike - as i said, Belgium.

    they've even got the language thing to kick it off.

    your grace - bloody hell, that just gets worse.

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  64. @Spencer

    Belgium's not a bad idea. It's been the neutral venue of choice for wars over the last 700 years or so, like a sort of military Villa Park. We'll be back at Mons with our French allies before you know it!

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  65. Yeah, you probably need a bit of a dummy-run before taking on The Great Satan (I think that was America, wasn't it?), some kind of limbering-up exercise.

    So, Belgium, er, there's some reason I think this might be unwise. What could it be?

    Oh, yeah, the international political analyst lives there, so Sarkozy could end up with some seriously bad press on WADDYA.

    Lichtenstein?

    NK/Charles

    He was right, you rabble are an active discouragment for the left and precisely why I will have nothing to do with leftism or socialism(although I support many aspects of the left for humanist reasons).

    Looks like we won, then.

    That was the master-plan all along.

    To prevent you from fulfilling your destiny of leading the left.

    We are the winners!

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  66. Spike

    Like the Americans attacking Grenada (pop. 100,000) so they could actually score a win after the humiliation of Vietnam.

    I thought they got their asses whooped on that one as well.

    Didn't we send in the Grenadier Guards?

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  67. Looks like Belgium it is.

    Actually if France annexed the Walloon bit, the Flemings could join Holland, the people of what is now Belgium would get a functioning government (governments). We could steal lots of beer and chocolate in "reparations" The French speaking Belgians are a bunch of truculent socialists or at least, I understand, believers in a heavy state subsidies, so they would join the left in France in voting out Sarkozy.

    Everyone would be happy! Exept the monks whose beer we stole and Sarkozy.

    If only the prospects for the scientist/religious wars were so rosy.

    Perhaps we shouldn't have stolen those monks' beer. That was the spark...

    ReplyDelete
  68. atomboy - i know sarko wouldn't want to bite off more than he could chew, but lichtenstein would be just too easy.

    I mean, I reckon we could invade lichtenstein, if we really put our minds to it. the main thing would be getting inside the castle, and I learn from Wiki that it is not open to tourists. am sure we could come up with something, however.

    ReplyDelete
  69. PhilippaB

    I'm happy to offer the lawn and the bit of woodland beyond and I even promise to be a happy cheese-eating surrender monkey when everyone gets tired and wants to come in for sandwiches and cups of tea.

    I just worry about the Channel crossing for everyone.

    ReplyDelete
  70. PeterJ,

    Belgium's not a bad idea. It's been the neutral venue of choice for wars over the last 700 years or so, like a sort of military Villa Park.

    Never thought about it like that:

    "It's Saturday, it's 5 O'clock, it's five live and now sports report with James Alexander Gordon"

    dadadadadadadadadadada....

    "Belgian Batllefield casualties league division 1.

    Battle of Waterloo 70k- First day of the Somme 71k

    Battle of Fleurus 6k- Battle of the Bulge 152k

    Paschendaele 650k-Combined battles of Ypres 650k

    ReplyDelete
  71. Off to the demo. See you later!

    ReplyDelete
  72. @Philippa

    In 1914 the Germans invaded Luxembourg without really noticing it was there. As the fourth army marched through it, Grand Duchess Marie-Adelaide issued strict orders preventing the 400-man Luxembourgeois army from resisting.

    The German Chancellor apologised later, and said he'd pay for any damage.

    Yeah, I reckon we could take Lichtenstein. It's all absentee population anyway, like the Isle of Man.

    ReplyDelete
  73. Hi peeps, just popping in after a long absence to see how the old stomping ground is faring. How are you all? Glad to see that not much has changed - handbags all over the place at the drop of a hat, (if I may be allowed to be a bit Brackenesque in my mixed metaphors). Nice to see some 'exciting' new posters here and I'm flattered to see Charles/Nap giving me a few recent vitriolic (if factually incorrect) name-checks when I've haven't even been around for ages. The mere idea that I played a small part in 'spoiling' Cif for everybody else gave me a warm fuzzy feeling, and fair brought a nostalgic tear to my wizened, rheumy old eye.(btw, he's a very arrogant, very self-obsessed, very stupid young man, isn't he?) No matter, broad church and all that, eh?

    Anyway, all the best, folks, take care.

    ReplyDelete
  74. your grace - no doubt UK involvement will be limited to really impressive refereeing decisions.

    "And that was a horrible challenge by Martine Aubry, really nasty, and she really can't argue with that yellow, arguably it was a straight red. Good call there by Howard Webb. And the physio is calling for the stretcher for Sarkozy..."

    ReplyDelete
  75. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  76. @monkeyfish

    Hey, you don't have to be young to make spelling and grammatical errors! I do it all the time.

    ReplyDelete
  77. Charles

    sorry mate...missed this earlier..

    "I'm sorry but I am not going to fall into your stereotype of us young uns"

    but Charles, that's exactly what you do every time you post..you've just said

    "Now, you make like to argue me all you want"..eh?

    "when it comes to someone half your age having to tell you the basic manners and conventions of civilised society"..you petit bourgeois tosser

    "it is quite telling of your position."..telling 'of'...aargghhh!!

    this is clunky, jarring, grammatically incoherent stuff Charles...just the kind of thing I might expect to find in a stereotypical depiction of you 'young uns'..that's what I'm getting at..your posts aren't even self-consistent, never mind consistent with objective reality...you don't escape a stereotype by acting entirely in accordance with it...and yet despite all this...and your magisterial "I will have nothing to do with leftism or socialism"..delivered at such a tender age..and for reasons which you claim have more to do with personality (or your projections thereof) than ideology or principle...you seem to expect me to accept your judgement?...again..that's not a consistent position.

    You also claim to be half my age...I'm well over 30 you know.

    See...the thing is you strike me as a complete joke but, due to your age, I'm compelled to make allowances, apparently. So I'll just make a couple more points: first, there are areas, football say, where I'd be quite willing to accept the opinion of someone with two left feet...it's not really necessary to have played to any great level to have a working knowledge of the game and make valid judgements

    ...but that doesn't apply to writing...to a very large extent, it's fair to say that if you've got a prose style as laboured and leaden as yours then any criticism of others' style will carry little weight.

    Secondly, I'm amused to see that Martyn has gained himself a teenage fanboy...sorta Batman and Robin on a mission to clean up Gotham..which is nice...I'm sure you've enjoyed many hours of stimulating philosophical debate together down the Batcave. However..since the guy is an A1 dick and as far as I know has never posted anything remotely interesting, funny or enlightening...I'd be a little careful about trying to learn from or imitate his 'work'...although..come to think of it, maybe that's what you're doing...shit Charles...it might be too late already.

    ReplyDelete
  78. Meanwhile, over in Ireland, our dear ex PM has been greeted with a shoe omelette. But he avoided being egged by the crowd - he is 'surrounded by his own personal security' as well as the Garda.

    ReplyDelete
  79. mschin - ah, heard about that. got very excited when they said "fruit, eggs and shoes" on the news.

    then they said "he wasn't hit"

    might have ben imagining it but could swear there was a tone of regret in the announcer's voice...

    ReplyDelete
  80. "Hey, you don't have to be young to make spelling and grammatical errors! I do it all the time."

    no..but there are some you really should avoid

    eg. "ungramaticel".."pretenshious"

    ...doesn't look good does it? I reckon the same applies when you're the world's most precocious 15 year old and you've got the fuckin nerve to call someone else 'petulent'...it's kinda expected that you might try extra hard to spell petulant properly.

    ReplyDelete
  81. PhilippaB good to see you back, and glad the 'distractions and general crap' are lessening !

    Charles I was actually engaging with Stevehill's second to last post, which he acknowledged when he huffed off. He was under the impression that with some new regulations the banks were not going to know " what had fucking hit them ", which was and is completely off-beam .

    Spike agents provocateurs and mugshots of the local RG was one reason I bought my digital camera . I'm not up to long walks but nearest daughter was off for 11AM here ! Mentioned yesterday to my sister, over for a few days, but reaction was " don't want to be involved in 'confrontations' with the cops ". In a provincial country town -- pop 9000 ? ! I suspect she's a Daily Mail reader, but since she's now doing Agency Caring for Alzimers / Stroke care at home, showed her the Jayne Austin article on ME / WCA . . . so maybe a seed sown.

    Looking forward to your report back.

    ReplyDelete
  82. scherfig

    I remember you..aren't you that stroppy Irish geezer who broke civilised internet debate and destroyed the left by calling yourself funny names and taking the piss out of tea ladies?..you can fuck right off

    although I think you've hit the nail square on the head with "he's a very arrogant, very self-obsessed, very stupid young man, isn't he?"

    I was starting to think it was just me.

    ReplyDelete
  83. hello davefromfrance!
    (did you have another handle previously? just trying to catch up)

    btw - quentin letts = enormous arse.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Hello Scherf, good to see you back, hope alls well.

    ReplyDelete
  85. Afternoon all

    Philippa

    Good to see you back.Glad the employment situation's sorted in the short term at least.

    Scherfig

    Hope all's well with you.

    ReplyDelete
  86. Philibee, "quentin letts = enormous arse."

    I wish the BBC hadn't bleeped out Jo Brand telling him to fuck off, but well, they have always been scared of the Daily Mail and are now doing their master's bidding.

    ReplyDelete
  87. I'm off out. Just read back through last night's thread. For those who don't have time, here's the abridged version.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWPYqnSNj74

    ReplyDelete
  88. Hey Pipster,

    Really good to see you again!

    Hope everything gets better soon!!

    Morning, everyone else....

    ReplyDelete
  89. Paul. Can we bury this shit ?
    Cheers.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Bitterweed

    No worries!

    @cyber handshake:-)

    ReplyDelete
  91. hello james!

    heyhabib - brilliant - his face, bless 'im, clearly not used to people being mean bback tto him.

    mind, i had never actually see him before, had assumed from the radio that he was an etiolated 60-something in tweed with a port problem...

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  92. Looks like Blair is getting a fine Irish welcome.

    He is going out of his way to cheer me up today. First there was the thing about Bono making a brilliant Prime Minister (which really did have me in hysterics this morning), and now his signing is all going horribly wrong.

    Great stuff.

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  93. PhilippaB dave, frog2, froggie, or whatever else you fancy :) I only adjusted it because of google mucking me about on password and easier to go back to very old monnicker.

    ReplyDelete
  94. What the fuck's going on - monkeyfish is in a good mood, BW and Paul are burying the hatchet, and Bracken's taken a vow of civility?

    Any more of this and I'm back off to waddya....

    ReplyDelete
  95. Spencer -- all going horribly wrong -- a definite hehe to that .

    ReplyDelete
  96. Lovely quote from the thoughts of Chairman Blair...

    "Did I want a nice home? Yes. Did I prefer a five-star hotel to a two-star? Yes … I never thought that enjoying life's good things led to indifference to the plight of those who couldn't. For me, the opposite was true: what I wanted for myself I also wanted for others."

    Isn't that sweet? Tony want us all to be on 7 million a year, have 7 homes (including a country estate and a georgian terrace in Connaught Square) and be given loads of jobs that we're totally unqualified to do...

    He might not have thought it through very well, but it does prove that his heart's in the right place.... After all, he doesn't want anything for himself that he doesn't want (almost as much) for the rest of us....

    ReplyDelete
  97. Y'know following last night, I think there's a growing market for this innovative product.
    Mind you,be wary of entrepreneurial types, and what they may be after...

    ReplyDelete
  98. Pity they missed him AB.

    Simone Weil has it right with people like him:

    As soon as men know that they can kill without fear of punishment or blame, they kill; or at least they encourage killers with approving smiles.

    ReplyDelete
  99. exiled " Yes. Did I prefer a five-star hotel to a two-star? Yes "

    Five-star lack of thinking things through there. What a shallow thing he is.

    Some of my mates are at Barenton (50) this afternoon, where there was a Vichy internment camp for Tziganes 1941/42 . Only two years' ago a monument was erected to remind people of that fact... against opposition, but those pushing for it won. Link

    ReplyDelete
  100. Blimey, I just read Peter B's joy of motorbikes article!

    I know, I know, it has been around for ages. I did see it at the time but, well, to be honest I thought he was a bit of an arse and bikes do nothing for me so I didn't bother.

    What a mistake eh?

    Almost as good as Bea Campbell's OBE one (which I had an excuse for missing as it was before my time).

    Been a very amusing day today. Let's hope it continues.

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  101. Sheff

    Maybe they were just range-finding for the big guns.

    It could be waders next time.

    scherf

    The mere idea that I played a small part in 'spoiling' Cif for everybody else gave me a warm fuzzy feeling...

    Yes, it's odd, isn't it?

    Apparently, just four or five of us ranged against the millions of unique visitors every month managed to bring the might of CiF to its knees.

    ReplyDelete
  102. Spencer - you saw the motor-bike article , have you seen the moderated Jay Reilly comment on it ?

    ReplyDelete
  103. Yeah, I saw that put up here the day I first came over when Peter was having his... ahem... episode.

    I enjoyed it, but not having seen the original I now realise that I had not fully appreciated its brilliance.

    But someone just made reference to the article on Whaddya and linked their own comments so I followed it and read the actual thing.

    What a piece of writing eh? I can see why he is so contemptuous of other's style now.

    And I completely take back what I said the other day about bollocks getting shot off and that and calling him Jake.

    Clearly Hemingway was never his model. Actually I am guessing that he was trying more for Danielle Steel.

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  104. dave from france

    Vichy.A word that is enough to make a chunk of the French population squirm with embarassment and discomfort.Especially as parallels are now being made between the current deportations of the Roma and the role the Vichy regime played in the rounding up and deportation of 76,000 Jews in WW2.

    Atomboy

    Never in the history of mankind has so much been achieved by so few.I salute you all.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Well MF, I've gotta thank you for making me laugh out loud. Well done.....batman and robin indeed.

    And Scherf, whether he is around or not, very arrogant, very self obsessed and very stupid, maybe or maybe not, but you hve never met me in real life.

    It's been a pleasure to read here on this dull Saturday.

    ReplyDelete
  106. I just got called a tosser on CIF in a post that was all in capitals!

    Result I would say, as I seem to have annoyed a Blair supporter.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Hmmm on second thoughts, they might just be completely bonkers. Oh well...

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  108. Charles, I have been meaning to ask, are your family locals or are you incomers like my lot?

    ReplyDelete
  109. Spencer

    Clearly Hemingway was never his model. Actually I am guessing that he was trying more for Danielle Steel.

    Cruel!!

    Have to say there is a weird dissonance between PB's florid writing style and his persona, what with his military background and love of motor bikes.

    Perhaps he should take note of what TE Lawrence (another lover of bikes and guns) said:

    I've been & am absurdly over-estimated. There are no supermen & I'm quite ordinary, & will say so whatever the artistic results. In that point I'm one of the few people who tell the truth about myself.
    T. E. Lawrence

    ReplyDelete
  110. Paul

    Never in the history of mankind has so much been achieved by so few.I salute you all.

    Exactly.

    Other than being able to give, say, a particular example of someone making insulting comments to someone else on CiF (which used to happen a lot more in the old days, actually) how would you say we - or anyone else - have wrecked CiF?

    Has your ability to post both here and there actually been impeded or curtailed in any way, or have you simply seen opinions written down, along with many others, each of which you could easily choose to ignore?

    Have you been kept awake at night wondering who might be hiding behind new user names and have you woken up, sweating and shuddering, from the nightmare that some people might, in fact, be deploying more than one user name in an attempt to rock the very foundations of CiF and wreck the unique user experience which could be so valuable to potential advertisers?

    Or did it all pretty much pass by unnoticed?

    Apart from the Atos/A4E onslaught, which was generally agreed to be a good idea in a good cause?

    ReplyDelete
  111. I think I had better give up on the pelting Blair with eggs thread. I am now arguing with Americans who think that Saddam was a supporter and sponsor of Al Quaida.

    Something tells me that if they have not worked that out by now I am not likely to convince them...

    Anyway its nearly time for the football results.

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  112. Well Spencer, we are 'incomers' although I was born on the island, my parents having moved beforehand- so I consider myself a local. I have lived on the island most of my life, although now I speak with an English accent due to being in England when I was younger and the English accent stuck. So people think I am English.

    Yes they have quite strange and racist euphemisms, terms like 'white settlers' for non islanders (usually English but can include lowland Scots) which is quite ironic considering
    how pale skinned the locals tens to be, and even more so considering the term white settlers was applied by native Americans to the original white settlers, many of whom no doubt came from remote parts of Scotland.

    Coincidentally I am going up there tomorrow for four nights. Fresh air and exercise, wahey.

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  113. When I moved up incomers were rarer than sheep with sense. At the Nicholson there was not a single other non-Islander in my year.

    Where do you drink up there? I am guessing that you were too young to remember Mac's Imperial Bar before it became the Clachan?

    ReplyDelete
  114. Hi All

    Duke, that's some worrying shit about the US army. Had read reports about that sort of thing, didn't really appreciate the pervasiveness.

    In other news, I've been following a story about Rupert Murdoch trying to launch a Fox-like tv channel in Canada. Seems PM Harper, his former press secretary and Murdoch had a meeting the other day about the launch of said vehicle. Details are of course very hush hush in keeping with Harpers style. Still trying to learn more. Feel a darkness descending on the country.

    Hi Philippa--long time.

    ReplyDelete
  115. Boudican

    Like this, you mean?

    It would be easier to simply declare Rupert Murdoch Emperor of Earth.

    ReplyDelete
  116. Atomboy

    You mean he isn't already Emperor?

    ReplyDelete
  117. No, he's just one of Tony Blair's many minions.

    At least in Tony's head.

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  118. Spencer, I never ever go in the dive pubs. I went to a few of them about twice, dragged in by friends when I was 18. The pubs are awful, essentially they are like 1970s (I presume) dive bars, reflected also in the quality of the clientele.

    I only started drinking this year anyway, a glass of wine with a meal is the extent of my alcoholic intake.

    ReplyDelete
  119. Last Night on the Untrussed

    Mr Scorpio Discovers Humility -

    "I wouldn't kid myself that if I hadn't been banned then the coalition would never have come to pass"

    Or Almost -

    "but..."

    'Let's hope this small glimpse of mortality does,nt dishearten the faithful hordes'

    chuckled the lightweight.

    Mr Scorpio claims copyright on OTHER PEOPLE'S MUSIC -

    "your choice of music changes from day to day according to what I've played earlier"

    NNGG!

    ReplyDelete
  120. charles

    Not sure what you mean by 'dive pubs' - however it is always interesting to go into different places and to talk and listen to the people there. We are always willing to talk about ourselves.

    You may be surprised to find that even in the unlikeliest places you will find areas of interest you share - while perhaps also disagreeing on many or even most things.

    There is no better way to learn and understand than to listen to people.

    Although we were not rich by any means I think I first met real poverty when I was about 14 - until then it had been an abstract concept - something which was wrong and to be opposed. When I saw it first hand, really understood its implications it changed me.

    same thing with extremism - of any kind. Listen to it and most importantly observe the effects it has on people espousing such views. Try to peep inside the pinhole they call thinking - observe the darkness.

    Reading George Gissing or Dostoevsky does not prepare you for the reality.

    ReplyDelete
  121. Charles

    I would think about what Leni has said, as she has used tact and kindliness in offering you advice.

    I cannot imagine anyone else here will be quite so restrained.

    If they are, consider yourself lucky.

    ReplyDelete
  122. Ah Charles, you don't know what you missed!

    The Macs was something else. It used to have an overwhelming smell of disinfectant. And whilst it was not uncommon to see a sign saying, we do not cash cheques behind the bar, the Macs was the only one that I can recall seeing a sign that said "We don't cash giro cheques"!

    I only used to go in there when I was already well pissed. Couldn't face it sober!

    Actually they wouldn't serve women there when I first lived up there so I sort of boycotted it until I was too drunk to remember my heartfelt principles.

    Stornoway on a Friday night used to be serious, serious insanity.

    The last time I went in there (it was the Clachan by then and relatively posh, at least by comparison) I got talking to a bunch of Galician and Portuguese fisherman and the fisheries protection escort who had arrested them. I ended up on the fisheries protection vessel drinking their warm beer and nearly getting my head stove in by a mad Catholic republican sailor.

    Happy days.

    Oh well. At least you can get a decent cappuccino in the Woodland centre or An Lantair these days.

    Creeping civilisation, it will get us all in the end.

    ReplyDelete
  123. @Leni

    Oh, I know exactly what he means. And to be fair, there are some in Stornoway that you have to be a bit crazed to venture into, or at least you would want to have some mates with you or in there. Not that they are violent crazy. Just...

    I don't know. My little sister used to work in the bar of The Lewis. She always reckoned that full moon was the worst.

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  124. Atomboy--Yeah,exactly like that. Harper is the type of man that would worship old uncle Rupe and lick his bum from 20 paces. Tries to hide his right wing tendencies, but they're still transparent to most.

    ReplyDelete
  125. The Archway Tavern used to have a little window in the wall of the main bar especially for cashing giros...

    It saved stopping off at the post office on the way to the pub.

    ReplyDelete
  126. Leni has a point though. When I was younger our local used to be the Royal until my stupid mates all got themselves banned.

    The Royal was never a dive, really, but this long was before HS1. I believe my dad once hit someone with a bar stool in there, come to think of it.

    But I was in there once, maybe 20 years ago, and I met an old guy who had been born and brought up on St Kilda. He sang us St Kildan songs in Gaelic. Just quietly, almost under his breath.

    It was one of the most poignant things I have ever heard.

    ReplyDelete
  127. Fuck me, exiled, that is seriously spooky. I am here in Archway about 100 yards from the Archway tavern talking about Macs Imperial Bar in Stornoway.

    And I am currently walking from Archway to Stornoway (in bits).

    How wierd is that?

    Yeah the pubs round here have changed more than they have in Stornoway. It was all Irish pubs when I moved here about 20 years ago.

    ReplyDelete
  128. Evening all

    Charlie

    From what you've written over the last few months you sound to me like you're struggling to find your niche in life-which isn't unusual for someone of your age.But if you were to ask me there are two pieces of advice i'd give you.

    Firstly never judge a book by it's cover.You may find friendship and maybe much more in the most unlikely of places.Even possibly in a 'dive pub'.And secondly don't raise your expectations too high.Life is full of imperfections.And many a time the 'politics' of adult inter-actions are governed by the politics of the playground.You can argue that it shouldn't be like that but the fact is that is how the cookie crumbles.And the sooner you accept that the easier it will be for you to adjust your expectations without selling out to your own principles.

    I'm sorry if i sound like a patronising git sometimes.I don't mean too.It's just sometimes you come across as someone who is a little bit too idealistic for his own good.And IMO that will only leave you feeling forever disappointed an unfulfilled.

    ReplyDelete
  129. Spencer,

    How wierd is that?

    Not as wierd as the fact you're currently walking from Archway to Stornaway, and you're only a 100 yards from the Archway Tavern...

    Either you haven't started yet, or the bits are very small :)

    Yeah the pubs round here have changed more than they have in Stornoway. It was all Irish pubs when I moved here about 20 years ago.

    I'm sure the Tavern must still be a dive? It couldn't be much else, stuck in the middle of one of the busiest roundabouts in london.

    ReplyDelete
  130. Sorry Leni?
    I was merely describing some aspects of my hometown with Spencer and we get this response from you, (polite though it is).

    I can't understand what you are trying to say, that I should listen to people? As if I don't already. But the last time I did this 'Narodnik' style of 'going among the people' I was physically and verbally attacked. Your talking of poverty is also a misnomer- I grew up in extreme poverty during childhood- I never even had by own bed until I was 10.

    Spencer knows and I know what I mean by dive pubs, there is no grand innocence/experience philosophical arguement going on, they are objectively dive pubs. I am not going to repeat my narodnikism and try and 'learn from the people', there are established education structures to learn in.

    Have a nice night, I've got to pack. This is what I love and hate about the UT, everyone suddenly decides the knives are out and perceives a bandwagon to jump on based on misconceptions, ie that I am naive about the world- when I am not.

    ...All of this stemmed from me telling Atomboy et al that setting up multiple accounts and trolling Waddya is childish-- which I stand by.

    ReplyDelete
  131. I cannot imagine anyone else here will be quite so restrained.

    I certainly wouldn't be able to be that restrained. I can't stand the arrogant, pseudo-intellectual little prick.

    ReplyDelete
  132. And I have no hard feelings or anything. The conservation is best when it remains civil.

    ReplyDelete
  133. moi, Montana.

    arrogant?
    pseudo intellectual?
    little?
    prick?

    A Brackenism in the making.
    I am prepared to forgive you for making this comment though- read my prev post-- 'And I have no hard feelings or anything. The conservation is best when it remains civil. '

    Charles

    ReplyDelete
  134. Exiled. What I mean is that I am doing it in stages.

    On the Way

    I never have frequented the Archway Tavern. I went there a year or so ago in a doomed and foolish attempt to learn Salsa (ended up sneaking out during a break embarrassed by my dancing shitness). It is no longer green.

    Did you know St Johns Tavern. I never used to go in there because my mad (I mean literally) dowstairs neighbour drank there having been banned from the Drum and Monkey which is where I went. St Johns is now a fine gastropub, its old regulars long since chased out. The Drum and Monkey is a horrible sports bar.

    Down the other end of Junction Road the Boston is still much the same. So the Boston and the Archway Tavern are still Irish pubs while everything in between has changed. Turned into flats, become a trendy gastro pub, whatever.

    The wierd thing was that all these pubs started to change or go out of business at the same time as fake Irish pubs were springing up all over the London.

    ReplyDelete
  135. Don't know what happened there.

    http://onthewaytostornoway.blogspot.com/

    Try again

    ReplyDelete
  136. "But the last time I did this 'Narodnik' style of 'going among the people' I was physically and verbally attacked."

    OMFG

    You 'go among the people'?...WTF does that mean?...or more to the point what do you do the rest of the time?...are you a recluse?..or just very sheltered?

    ..by people, do you mean any human being...or a particular kind of person..what kinda person are we talking about here?...sorry but you're sounding like Marie Antoinette....a kinda intellectual and social disdain..is that what you're trying to convey?

    ReplyDelete
  137. Funny, doesn't seem to copy over but the Url works if you copy and paste.

    ReplyDelete
  138. All of this stemmed from me telling Atomboy et al that setting up multiple accounts and trolling Waddya is childish-- which I stand by.

    No, Charles, all of this stems from the fact that you are such an insufferable, arrogant, sanctiomonious, prig that even someone as sweet-natured and generous as Leni can see it.

    But the last time I did this 'Narodnik' style of 'going among the people' I was physically and verbally attacked.

    If you went about it with the same sort of attitude that you display here, it's little fucking wonder you were attacked. The wonder is that you didn't end up in hospital.

    Narodnik style of 'going among the people'

    Who the fuck are you??? Count fucking Vronsky??? "going among the people". Newsflash for you, you delusional little fuckwit: You are NOT Russian nobility.

    Are you honestly so lacking in social skills that you can't see how fucking irritating your Russian affectations are?

    God, I despise you.

    ReplyDelete
  139. I am prepared to forgive you for making this comment though

    Please don't.

    ReplyDelete
  140. And monkeyfish puts his finger right on the problem.

    Did 'the people' feel honoured Charles, I am guessing probably not.

    I have nothing against you but if you come across in real life like you do on here then are always going to have problems because you really do seem to think you are above everyone.

    ReplyDelete
  141. Well, I pointedly don't despise you Montana.

    By all means attack me. This is one of the other things I hate about the UT. People have a distorted view of what they perceive the person to be, based on absolutely no reality whatsoever.

    Politeness and manners don't cost a penny.
    As I said, I am prepared to forgive you for your outburst as you clearly know absolutely nothing about my real life, my life experience that have coloured my views and instead have a perceived view of me.

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  142. Have a good trip, Charles and listen, the thing is if you want to go to places like the Clachan and the Lewis and Crown public, and seriously you are missing an important part of Stornoway life if you don't at least sample their delights, the thing to remember is to get really, really, fucking drunk first.

    Start off somewhere like HS1, get a few down you, then maybe stop of in the County lounge bar or the Seaforth or whatever it is called these days for a few more.

    Next, proceed to the Star which is sort of civilised and only a few steps from your destination. Only once you are starting to stagger a bit will you be ready to narodnikise the Lewis or Crown bar.

    By this stage you will be able to talk to strangers even if you don't know any of them. You may of course be talking bollocks but the chances exceedingly high that they will be talking bollocks too. And even if they do hit you you will be fully anesthatised. And in Stornoway it doesn't matter anyway.

    Go on, give it a go. You have nothing to lose but suffering a diabolical hangover which you can walk off in the Castle Grounds next day.

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  143. Thanks spence, but a glass of wine with an evening meal is the extent of my alcohol intake.

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  144. 'The conservation is best when it remains civil.'

    ...another petit bourgeois little moralist who hasn't got the brains or imagination to see how an insistence on certain modes of register, style and non-permissible areas of discussion curtails free expression.

    Didn't see your rebuke on here btw...assume you e-mailed Martyn with a severe telling off when the helpless spluttering prick launched into "go fuck your mother", "hope you get bowel cancer" immediately after labelling me a troll.

    I know you admired the man...and it must have come as a disappointment to see your idol disgrace himself in that way..but don't blame him..he was sorely provoked...unfortunately I called him pointless..unforgiveable, I know...in fact if everything goes to form around here, pretty soon he'll be claiming he's been abused for months..a helpless hapless innocent who just stumbled into a viper's nest...you could use that line too one day.

    But anyway, don't be too hard on your illustrious mentor...I know a principled young guy like yourself would allow personal friendship to get in the way of duty...but when you administer his keyboard lashing...remember..he's human..he's fallible..as unlikely as it seems.

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  145. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  146. Spencer,

    Archway wasn't really my stamping ground - my regular haunts were more up towards Highgate and Hampstead, and down in Camden.

    Down the other end of Junction Road the Boston is still much the same. So the Boston and the Archway Tavern are still Irish pubs while everything in between has changed. Turned into flats, become a trendy gastro pub, whatever.

    I remember the Boston Arms - I did a few gigs there - and a couple of pubs down the Holloway Road.

    The wierd thing was that all these pubs started to change or go out of business at the same time as fake Irish pubs were springing up all over the London.

    Tell me about it! There used to be a genuine tudor olde worlde pub in Barnet - they ripped out the genuine tudor interior, and got a company called heritage bar fittings to put in a fake tudor interior....

    Here in Spain Irish bars are ubiquetous (or what they think is an Irish bar...). I know a no-horse village near Segovia that has two bars, both Irish themed. The only difference between an Irish theme pub and an English theme pub is that the former has a wooden floor, and the latter has carpet...

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  147. Anyway, off for a drink.

    It looks like I need to play catch-up...

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  148. Oh, the misanthrope bleeds. This is funnier than Little Dorrit.

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  149. Ah well. It isn't what it used to be, anyway.

    Stornoway on a Friday night used to be one of the great experiences of our time. Running with the Bulls in Pamplona had nothing on getting pissed in Stornoway on a Friday night.

    Partly it was the Island thing and partly Presbyterianism. You could not go really wild on Saturday because the Sabbath would kick in and turn everyone into Cinderella at the stroke of midnight. So it all got really focussed into Friday.

    What made it really weird for me as a freak kid from Barking was that when I went out in Ilford (as discussed the other night) I was generally worried about getting attacked by "tasty geezers" who didn't like longhairs or the Teds I had to walk past in Ilford Lane on the way home. "Others" in other words.

    But in Stornoway it was not different gangs so much as people had these pissed relationships and sober ones. So some people were mates when they were sober and would start bashing each other as soon as they got beyond a certain level of drunk.

    And then the next day they would be friends again.

    I think it is an Island thing. People can't get away from each other and so it worked as a safety valve.

    Oh, the other thing is that the police used to basically hide on Friday nights. The thing is there were just not enough of them to deal with fifty drunken youths. And the nearest back up is Inverness which is across the sea and on the other side of the country. So if they put the call out support might be there next week.

    So they tried very hard to avoid seeing any lawbreaking after about 10 on a Friday night.

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  150. Now I don't know if I am speaking out of turn here but I have actually been a bit worried about Charles and his posts' lately.

    A while ago he came on and said he had decided not to post either here or on Cif and when people (quite genuinely I think) advised him not to cut himself off then he decided he would stay.

    Since then almost everything he has posted has been some kind of challenge, it seems as if he has been wanting people to have a go at him.

    I hope you are ok Charles, I hate your attitude a lot of the time but I wouldn't like to think there was a serious problem.

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  151. Martyn

    You're a busted flush mate..a one trick poodle..you blew it pal..you've exposed yourself as a spittle-flecked, foul-mouthed raging buffoon

    quick..try and be nice...and maybe people'll be nice back and pretend they didn't notice... then you can kid yourself you've kept a scrap of credibility

    I'd love to tell you 'you can give it out but you can't take it'..but you can't even give it out

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  152. "I hope you are ok Charles, I hate your attitude a lot of the time but I wouldn't like to think there was a serious problem."

    ..and I wouldn't like to bet against it

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  153. Spencer

    You describe things in Stornaway much as I imagined them . When I first came here we had a 'fighting pub' in the village. Now closed.

    Perfectly friendly people became something quite different after a couple of hours. It was possible to avoid the violent outbursts - always easy to see when they were approaching.

    We also have the surviving remnants of the 'chapel movement' here - they successfully campaigned for a drinking in public ban. This ended generations of tradition of the miners sitting on their steps and swallowing a few beers. This continued long after the mines closed.

    Charles

    Enjoy you break.

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  154. "Politeness and manners don't cost a penny."

    .... but vitriol and hand glycerine do

    countered the genius

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  155. Spencer, it''s a terrible idea suggesting that Charles should get drunk and talk to ordinary people. He's a 'working class intellectual' who knows more about chavs and scum (his words) than they do themselves. He couldn't learn anything about real life by actually engaging in it. His mind-set is that of an 'intellectual' Russian peasant from the 19th century, please don't disillusion him. He thinks that the consistently 'best' posters on Cif are SteveHill and MartyninEurope. Need I say more?

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  156. "His mind-set is that of an 'intellectual' Russian peasant from the 19th century, please don't disillusion him."

    you think so..I'd had him down as more of a Prince Myshkin

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  157. charlie

    You have yourself a good break mate.

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  158. May his/her/its autistic meltdown be long and drawn out :-) LOL

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  159. Cya Spencer. Have a good weeekend - at least, what's left of it.

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  160. By Martyn. Got to go walking tomorrow. Warming up for the Scottish border later in the week.

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  161. "You created this mess yourself."

    Do you have any evidence for that Charles?
    BTW: don't waste the rest of the weekend looking for some, that was a rhetorical question.

    Besides you would need to go back a long time before you signed up to find out the origins of the Cif meltdown.

    Oops...sorry...where are my manners?
    Hello everyone.

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  162. Martyn

    Methinks you owe MF an apology.Even by UT standards you went way way OTT yesterday.

    Here's a classy tuneto enjoy whilst you think about it.

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  163. I would be reticent to engage with Maryn ineurope, decordoba, lookatme etc or whatever hisname is now. He's just a narcissist and a nutter who has found a new place to bore people. Check out his blog and his (very weird) youtube musical site where he appears to be fixated on Kate Bush and demonstrates a very strange attitude to women. And he posted links to this site on waddya. Bad idea.

    martyn

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  164. Hi Checkov

    Seems like we lose a Russian literary figure and gain another...

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  165. Leni ...

    You describe things in Stornaway much as I imagined them . When I first came here we had a 'fighting pub' in the village. Now closed.

    I remember there being a "fighting pub" in Pontypridd, too. Taffs Wells was much more upmarket - in a south Wales sort of way. The Market Inn (or whatever it was called) in Nelson was a lively spot, as I recall it, too. My youngest sister used to live in Treforest, she a theme pub at the end of her street too (the theme was "getting pissed") ... not evem sure if it wasn't an Ex-servicemens club, as they used to be called.

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  166. Went down the Philharmonic in Cardiff a few times, must have been one hell of a great place in its time, with live Jazz, etc.

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  167. Want to find out who the real sad people are?

    Lay down some URL bait, and let psychosis do the biz. Usually it doesn't take long. I put down a fresh batch yesterday, and already it's nabbed a troll.

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  168. @Leni I wouldn't call any of them fighting pubs in Stornoway, exactly. More just rough as fuck pubs. Most of the fighting desultory as it is/was took place outside. Particulary outside the old YMCA which was opposite our house.

    The thing about those pubs though was that though, like those pubs anywhere you might very well just be talking to rambling alcoholics, there was always this element of randomness, it being a port (which I would guess is very different to a mining village). You might get talking to Polish or Russian "klondikers" at one point. These guys brought factory boats over to process herring. Or the fisheries protection guys and their captives I mentioned above, or the sad exile from St Kilda.

    I don't really go to those pubs any more when I go home. Too old, my freinds are not going to be there. I might drop in with my sister for old times sake, once in a while.

    But I am too old for a proper Stornoway Friday night. The liver, cannae take it Captain

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  169. @Spencer: I've been around since long before NapK started blogging on Cif or on here, for that matter.

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  170. And you have the redeeming quality of not being an arrogant prick.

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  171. I wasn't accusing you of being a Chekhov come lately. I just meant tonight, he went and you came.

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  172. PeterJ

    Liechtenstein managed to stay neutral in WW2-probably due to its customs union with Switzerland.However popular mythology has it that after the Anschluss in 1938 the Germans actually planned to occupy it.But as they were about to cross the Liechtenstein-Austrian border they were met by a motley group of Liechtensteiners-including police officers,farmers,scouts and a priest-who persuaded them to turn back.

    Like Switzerland ,Liechtenstein was guilty of turning back Austrian Jews who tried to enter the country illegally.However in 1945 a group of around 400 White Russians were given asylum in Liechtenstein.And despite Russian pressure refused to hand them over.Unlike the Allies who handed over many thousands of Cossacks in Austria-many of whom lost their lives in Russia as a result.

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  173. Montana Wildhack:

    Great poster. Izquierda Republicana are still going (there are now two of them, following a split). I went to the dinner toi celebrate the 70th anniversary of their foundation, a few years back (2004), it was funded by the City Council of Cordoba, the PCE and the United Left. Don't know whether it's of much interest top anyone here, but a lot of their Republican ideals/ideas came from the USA.

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  174. Hi Montana

    Hope you're feeling better.

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  175. Just watched 102 minutes that changed America

    Its shot in real time and is virtually all amateur footage, from people caught up in the actual events - all the thousands of ordinary people, fire fighters, police officers, paramedics etc....

    Very moving and well worth a watch.

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  176. I couldn't watch it Sheff, I remember watching the original footage and it gave me nightmares for weeks.

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  177. Notification letters
    A new computer system introduced by HMRC in 2009 has allowed more discrepancies to be identified.

    As a result millions of letters will be sent to taxpayers across the UK informing them of errors in their contributions.

    The first 45,000 are expected to arrive on Tuesday, with 30,000 informing recipients they are due a rebate of on average £418.

    The remaining 15,000 letters will tell taxpayers they have underpaid and will have their tax code altered next year to recoup the money.
    ----

    Latest cock up. Do we owe or are we owed ? For some the repayments are going to be very hard - particularly if they have recently lost their jobs.

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  178. "Lay down some URL bait, and let psychosis do the biz. Usually it doesn't take long. I put down a fresh batch yesterday, and already it's nabbed a troll."

    It's your own website, martyn, has been for years and you linked to it publicly on waddya. Where is the 'bait' and where is the 'troll'? Where is the 'psychosis'? You've outed yourself as a complete idiot, maybe you should delete some of your posts here like you've done recently. Your 'fresh batch' has already nabbed a troll'? You are such a moron and a pathetically ineffectual liar. Give up.

    And maybe people here should think twice before they welcome idiots, fascists and malcontents and share a little joke with them. Not everybody is a nice, vaguely socialist, well-meaning person. A degree of scepticism is actually OK. And telling wankers to fuck off is also OK.

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  179. Came across this brilliant live footage of Slade at Earl's Court in 1973 tearing the arse out of Skweeze me pleeze me.

    Sir Nodworth of Holder and the boys tight as a gnats chuff.

    Wonderful stuff.

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  180. This drink is for real, albeit not for sale, but rather distributed as a public health statement. No further comment, save to say that I do believe there may have been prototypes for sale in certain venues I used to frequent.

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  181. Oh yes, that would look fine amongst my malt whisky collection.

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  182. Martyn

    It's just embarrassing now...Fuck off...you've blown your cover...you're a fuckin wackdoodle...do the decent thing and disappear...don't worry, I'll break the news to kiz..another of her posse turned out to be a fuckin self-lovin, anal fantasist.

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  183. just to clear something up, when I said: "fuckin self-lovin, anal fantasist", I meant someone who is self-loving-anal-and a fuckin fantasist

    I'm not ruling the other interpretation out but I've no reason to imply it either.

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  184. Oh great, the piss-whisky post I was referring to has disappeared.

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  185. @Spencer:Ok, fair enough. I don't have an axe to grind with you. I was just making the point that NapK doesn't know enough about the history of Cif and therefore his assertion that the btl posters contributed to its demise were way off the mark.

    It was the "mods" that ruined what was shaping up to be a damn good blog.

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  186. Chekhov, they seem to be getting more bizarre by the day. I have seen some completely inoccuous, benign posts deleted for no discernable reason recently.

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  187. With the UT sitting on a tinderbox right now I think it is best that I do not inflame the position any more, but Montana, I think you should know I find your comments hurtful.

    I actually said earlier that I found MF's posts about youth inexperience hilarious even though they were aimed at me. I was then talking with Spencer about pubs in my hometown and somehow the situation inflamed.

    Leni- I am sorry to say you were the catalyst- I was merely talking about the local pubs with spencer, and how I have no desire to go into them, (and I've lived there most of my lives)
    amd you took it like I was making some kind of statement. You acted in good faith but what you posted was totally irrelevant, leading to my admittedly totally irrelevant post about Narodism, which led to Montana having a go at me.

    Anyway, fat lot of good my opinion is worth round here.

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  188. Leni: I posted this on waddya on 18th August - it had links, but I can't be arsed to redo them:

    Apparently 7 HMRC employees have been sacked for deliberately messing with computer records to ensure that ethnic minorities throughout Britain were not paid benefits they were entitled to.

    When is the government going to admit that HMRC is just not fit for purpose?

    It is virtually impossible to get through to them on the phone - figures suggest that only around 33% of calls are answered at peak times; this only rises to 52% at best.

    According to the Comptroller and Auditor General’s report on HMRC’s 2009-10 accounts, in the last tax year HMRC made “incorrect payments to claimants of between £1.95 billion and £2.27 billion”.

    In addition, there are 18.2 million cases of potentially overpaid or underpaid tax from 2007-08 and earlier awaiting action. The Department's early analysis suggests that around half of these cases are likely to involve an over- or underpayment of tax, and these may lead to repayments and recoveries of the order of £3.0 billion and £1.4 billion respectively.

    The financial hardship and stress that this department is causing to thousands of households across Britain through its incompetence is absolutely unacceptable.
    Apparently 7 HMRC employees have been sacked for deliberately messing with computer records to ensure that ethnic minorities throughout Britain were not paid benefits they were entitled to.

    When is the government going to admit that HMRC is just not fit for purpose?

    It is virtually impossible to get through to them on the phone - figures suggest that only around 33% of calls are answered at peak times; this only rises to 52% at best.

    According to the Comptroller and Auditor General’s report on HMRC’s 2009-10 accounts, in the last tax year HMRC made “incorrect payments to claimants of between £1.95 billion and £2.27 billion”.

    In addition, there are 18.2 million cases of potentially overpaid or underpaid tax from 2007-08 and earlier awaiting action. The Department's early analysis suggests that around half of these cases are likely to involve an over- or underpayment of tax, and these may lead to repayments and recoveries of the order of £3.0 billion and £1.4 billion respectively.

    The financial hardship and stress that this department is causing to thousands of households across Britain through its incompetence is absolutely unacceptable.


    I can't believe that this crass incompetence has been allowed to continue for so long - everything HMRC touches fucks up.

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  189. Charles. You said you were going to get some exercise. Are you going walking when you are up there?

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  190. Alisdair,

    with some of the dives I've frequented in my puff, I'm bound to have knocked back that or something similar. Has anyone tried Tactical Nuclear Penguin?

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  191. BTW: has Matt buggered off to other side of the pond yet?
    Who is taking up the poisoned chalice?

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  192. Running, hillwalking, maybe some cycling and certainly swimming. Looking forward to it.

    Goodnight.

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  193. Hillwalking? I am a big fan of the Clisham though it is a long time since I did the whole ridge.

    Any specific plans?

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  194. I have rescued your post from the spam folder Spencer.

    Charles: you seem like a well meaning kid in your own way. Get out while the going's good.

    Montana: have you contacted google about the spam problem? The only theory I have is that it's a combination of swearing and newer posters...

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