20 February 2010


It's Gordon Brown's birthday. And Sidney Poitier's. It's also apparently National Cherry Pie Day.


  1. I've just re-read Jack London's account of the fight between Jack Johnson and Jim Jeffries...seems London actually coined the term "Great White Hope" to describe Jeffries attempt to regain the Heavyweight title for the "white race" after Johnson had between Tommy Burns for the title. It mentioned Johnson's first fight after winning the title was against Victor McLagen..who went onto be John Wayne's sidekick in any number of films.

    I'd always thought McLagen was an Irishman but it turns out "Victor Andrew de Bier Everleigh McLaglen" was the son of an Anglican bishop from Tunbridge Wells, served as a captain in the British army, where amongst other achievements he became its Heavyweight champion and served as Provost Marshall of Baghdad.

    The most tragic thing is that in the Quiet Man..."the greatest film fight sequence, ever...my arse", if he'd really gone for it, he'd probably have taken John Wayne's head off in about 30 seconds.

    Instead we got this..

  2. Happy birthday Gordon, thank you for delivering the socialist, post-scarcity utopia that 13 years of a Labour Govt. could not help but achieve.

    20 February 1985 : Ireland allows sale of contraceptives

    b.1902 Ansel Adams
    b.1925 Robert Altman

  3. That was following on from Phillipa mentioning Jack London last night. Was looking for a screwdriver and found my "Greatest Boxing Stories" which I lost about 5 years ago...spooky eh?

    There's another piece by Nellie Bly interviewing John L Sullivan which is quite entertaining too...if I didn't have a prior arrangement with SkySports 1 soon, I'd probably read the whole thing again.

    London was in many ways an admirable socialist...comes down to whether you should forgive him his views on race which were not untypical for the time.

  4. v interesting, monkeyfish - strange how some of the more interesting 'pol' writers of the past also covered sports! Am thinking HST, of course, but didn't Hemingway also cover it (not just fishing, mean)?

    the question of 'forgiving' is interesting and comes up a lot, I think, it's one of the dangers of 'celebrating' various figures from an ID pov as well - viz the recent thread on some gay chap who was an avid colonialist (I also mentioned the social beliefs of some early feminists)

    if someone lived 100 years ago, unlikely that they'd be nice and cudddly on everything...it's deciding where to draw the line that's the hard bit (also applies to the 'art / life' distinction, suppose)

    "if he'd really gone for it, he'd probably have taken John Wayne's head off in about 30 seconds."
    More prosaically, got that feeling when Ray Parks played Darth Maul.

    The corridor fight scene in Grosse Point Blank is pretty good though - sifu and student in real life, kicking seven bells out of each other.

    And they did a good job in the Bourne films. That magazine / toaster thing was genius...

  5. Afternoon Untrusties. Lovely sunny day, have coq au vin simmering aromatically on the cooker, a good book and a nice fire. Bliss. Quiet day in for me as it's an off weekend for Six Nations.

  6. I always tend to go for the LaMotta-Robinson scenes in Raging Bull..and with that, I take my leave...in search of a hostelry with a big screen where they'll still serve me...I'm persona non barred..but not exactly grata, either... from the best one.

  7. monkeyfish, George MacDonald Fraser is very good on McLaglen in The Holywood History of the World - he points out that Wee Willie Winkie may be one of the worst films ever made, but is worth seeing for McLaglen's accent, an authentic re-creation of the old British redcoat army accent.

    And yes, he could have floored Wayne in less than 5 seconds if he wanted!

    Am not up on London but think that like many socialists of the period his socialism was white-man socialism. HG Wells in one his SF novels (can't mind which ) has ranks of 'grinning negroes' brought in by the powers to crush the white workers.

  8. Just finished reading yesterday's thread. Still working my way through the choons.

    Habib, very glad to hear you are back home and on the mend!

    I wondered what all the shouting was about but it wouldn't have helped because I don't have authoring rights on the UT. :-)

  9. Edwin - "white-man socialism" - indeed, another favourite of mine, Lynd Ward (woodcut novels - take that comix fanboys) can make me cringe a bit at some of the depictions of the 'natives' in Mad Man's Drum...

  10. A bit careless to have recovered Habib only to mislay Montana.

    Yep, the sun's out, it's the weekend and spring is more than a distant rumour. What could possibly spoil this idyllic scene?

    Right, off to the football...

  11. Whoa. Thanks for putting up a thread, scherfig. The sprog wanted to cuddle on the sofa and watch the Olympics for a bit last night and the next thing I knew, it was light outside. I had been up for about 40 hours by then and I'm way too old for that kinda shit, so...

    (long story)

    Gotta call my landlord. Small lake in the kitchen coming out from under the dishwasher. Back in a bit.

  12. Labour's election campaign slogan is to be

    A future fair for all

    I wonder how many hours of focus grouping it took to come up with one.

    You have to admire the alliteration...although anyone trying to suggest its likely will be drowned out by the countrywide hollow laughter and groans of despair.

  13. or even... come up with that one

  14. Oh Phillipa many thanks for the Lynd Ward reference - he is completely new to me, just looked him up on wiki, will get hold of some of the books.

  15. Not sure about a focus group Sheff, think someone's remembering Piers Plowman -

    Then began I to dream a marvellous dream,
    That I was in a wilderness wist I not where.
    As I looked to the east right into the sun,
    I saw a tower on a toft worthily built;
    A deep dale beneath a dungeon therein,
    With deep ditches and dark and dreadful of sight
    A fair field full of folk found I in between,
    Of all manner of men the rich and the poor,
    Working and wandering as the world asketh.
    Some put them to plow and played little enough,
    At setting and sowing they sweated right hard
    And won that which wasters by gluttony destroy.

  16. Edwin
    Pity they can't drag themselves out of the middle ages. If they are going back to Piers Plowman they might have thought of this bit, although there's no handy alliteration.

    'I am ready,' quoth Reason · 'to rest with you ever;
    If Conscience will be of our council · I care for no better.'
    'And I grant,' quoth the king · `God forbid that it fail!
    As long as our life lasteth · live we together.'

  17. Afternoon fellow untrusties

    Feeling content cos I have just finished a huge piece of work that I have been avoiding doing since - well, Christmas really. Fortunately there was no real deadline on it, but I should be ashamed of meself really.

    Nice day today - too nice to be stuck in the hoose with the law books, and now I can't be arsed to go out. Ah well.

    Haven't really paid much attention to CiF yet, except to chip in on my dismay at yet another thread about how fatties are all disgusting creatures who should be vilified at all costs. As I carry too much weight myself, I am getting fed up with it now.

    And now there is an ad on telly for Tunnock's wafers. Bastards!

  18. What a morning! The manager of our apartment complex didn't seem to think I should be much bothered by letting my dishwasher leak all over my kitchen floor until Monday. I wonder if he'd let water leak on his kitchen floor for 2 days?

    C'mon, BB! You should know by now that the fat and the poor deserve everything they get. Honestly, what are you -- some kind of bleeding-heart leftie?

  19. A future fair for all

    Crap but should surely be

    A fair future for all


    A future fair

    sounds like we will all be soon invited to an event in the local church gardens.

  20. I'd no more call myself a leftist than a girondin, although I am sans culottes since I was a saboteur.

    I've been called traitor to my face (it must be my traitor's heart).

    Each is local in time and in space, placed in particular perspective our prospects are limited.

    Today's self is tomorrow's killer as it smokes and boozes and carouses itself towards its grave.

    UT a family? Like when alpha chick beats and starves beta to death? There is a natural history to the family that is biologic.

    Snowball was a beast.

    Why should my heart bleed for any but for myself?

  21. Oh whoopee - Julie Bindel on the beeb. Radio 4 if anyones up for it.

  22. @Sheffpixie I thought about it for like a nano second and then thought "nah".

    I have a chapter to write and as I live near the Emirates I can hear the roar of Arsenal fans. Quite a nice backdrop.

  23. @philippaB It's wonderful to read a great writer on sports. I enjoyed Mailer's The Fight which I only just read.The interesting ones are also those who played sport and wrote...As a goalie it is no surprise that Camus wrote as he did.

  24. pen

    You sound a bit angst ridden - and whats this about being a saboteur? What did you sabotage? I only ask as I've done a bit of sabotage myself (many moons ago at Greenham Common). I enjoyed it.

    UT a family?

    Perhaps not in the conventional sense but we do have a kind of internal coherence which could be construed in those terms if you look at it broadly.

    PS: Who was Snowball?

  25. This comment has been removed by the author.

  26. Pen

    Are you referring to snowball: "the only good human is a dead human" said by snowball to boxer after the battle of the cowshed

  27. Well, BB, I hope you're happy. I went looking for the fatties thread and ended up on something else entirely, to which I had to leave a slightly obscenity-laced screed. There goes my merit badge for good behaviour.

  28. MsR - a future fair for all - ha ha! Like your spin on it. Somehow I think we're all going to be the fairground attractions.

    And this: I have a chapter to write and as I live near the Emirates I can hear the roar of Arsenal fans. Quite a nice backdrop.

    Reminds me of this.

  29. A future fair for all, or we can promise you the moon as we all know we can't deliver shit.

    This is probably not going to survive so I'll save it for your amusement here

    #Ah, jiasa your point is, you are a nasty piece of work.. I'm guessing you're Born Year of the Rat?

    The Rat could charming beyond words and throughout his undoubtedly long and lonely life he may be popular but will loose and offend many friends.

    Forecast for 2010
    The Rat may be feeling quite tired and deflated after 2009, which should have seen him keeping his head down, working and staying out of trouble. Fat chance eh?

    It is essential for all persons born under this sign to be extra thoughtful and caring throughout the year ? an inadvertent remark or gesture could lead to you attacking women via their children, being a snarky troll and getting banned again.#

  30. "Why should my heart bleed for any but for myself?

    See here friend - you cannot bury yourself with certainty, nor security, any more than you can be assured of your own cremation. The wind has an infuriating habit of blowing t out before you are finished

    Anyway first things first since I have only a fraction of a Mb remaining..............

    habib - I'm very pleased to see you a bit mended I hope the repair is complete, my best wishes to your friend Edward for keeping us informed. I shall be happy to buy him a jar should we ever meet.

    I'll have to see if this posts - if so I'll be back 'cos I'd like to comment on the weeks comments here...

  31. I don't see the fatty thread you're all banging on about. Probably just as well as I usually turn into one of the smug bastards who insists that it is entirely possible to eat healthily on a low budget in the face of all the people who insist that it's impossible and too expensive to cook actual food.

    As someone who smokes and drinks far too much, I believe that the "fuck off, I like food" argument is a perfectly good one, but not the "ooh, there just isn't enough time/money" one.

    *lights fag, takes sip of wine, having eaten a bang-up meal earlier*

  32. The comments on depression earlier in the week gave a kind of joy, for me for two reasons:

    i) a delight to be part of the same alleged human race as most who post here. There is amongst you a delightful determination to argue it through to the end and to seek understanding - what else could we reasonably expect from those who we admire and love.

    (I must say Sheff I was moved by the loss of your younger brother - it must have been god awful.)

    (ii) Given your moving describes of the shittiness of depression I can only say I have never been more than profoundly sad. You who have dealt, and still have to deal with the demon, have my respect and admiration...... I wish, I wish, I could indeed wave a magic wand and help vanish it ....

  33. Hmmm....No Six Nations today. Consequently no television to shout at and no huge sense of anticlimax and disappointment as my favoured team falls to fifteen foreign feral formidable fighters.

    Now stick that in your alliterative pipe and puff on it.

    Although as a person both poor and porky, I should probably just piss off to the paupers place.

  34. "Who was Snowball?"

    Lisa Simpson's cat?

    Couple of righteous football results today.

  35. Nice one Turminder

    Chagall always manages to out him before anyone else does, it seems.

  36. Since some ask questions.

    No, not angst ridden, I do self monitor and self regulate (mostly) and introspecting I don'f feel angsty.

    Snowball, probably, yeah. All animals are equal but ...? I'm relying on memory and I read Animal Farm a long time ago. Orwell was a slightly more subtle writer than some would have him.

    They're rhetorical questions, (mostly). What is a group? An identity etc.

    Groups are constituted in particular contexts, this and cif are examples so are families and so are political parties. Saboteur derives from the practice of throwing a wooden clog into the works, san culottes were the riff raff. I am being metaphorical (using language I believe is essentially what it is).

    Deano I don't 'bury myself with certainty', it's you guys who are all so certain of the meaning of words etc. My heart may bleed only for myself but I have extended that self. Where does the self reside? We are all related (to everything), I find it quite cheering mostly (it has its down side too).

  37. monkeyfish

    At last, a cultural reference on UT to which I can relate!

    But how many Snowballs have has Lisa Simpsom had?

  38. My pleasure BB, you seem to have a fan on WADDYA..

  39. 'has Lisa Simpson had'

    My inability to write in English what is proper may explain my lack of cultural liter....liti....nous.

  40. Incidentally, I've always thought that if you can 'do' boxing well you can write about anything. The best are undoubtedly Mailer, Bud Schulberg, Nat Fleisher, Damon Runyon but the greatest by far and worth a read on any topic is Hugh McIlvanney.

    ..and Thomas Hauser's Ali book is good too.

    and this is a fuckin masterpiece

  41. TigerDunc - w007, another rugby fan on the UT! We shall dominate in the end despite the boring roundball fans....

  42. tigerdunc

    3 at the last count I believe..but they were all 'beasts'

  43. Tiger
    Speaking of sport, am watching the Olympics - women's speed downhill - boy do they have killer thighs!

  44. ps Who's your team? I thought you were English - oh wait ... could 'Dunc' stand for Duncan?

    Scotland played excellent rugby for 60 mins last week.

  45. Oh Sheff, I'm sorry if I came across a bit tetchy. I think you are ok and often say sensible things.

    For any one who is actually interested in categories and stuff

    Lakoff Women Fire and Dangerous things

    Bowker and Star Sorting things out: classification and its consequences.

  46. pen

    "Each is local in time and in space, placed in particular perspective our prospects are limited."

    You sure you don't have a slight relativist streak..

    "Why should my heart bleed for any but for myself?"

    ...with solipsistic tendencies..

    "Snowball was a beast."

    ...and watch too much of the Simpsons?


    it's OK I was havin a laugh ;)

  47. I suppose, not being one of these:

    = GIRONDIST n. (a.)

    1837 CARLYLE Fr. Rev. III. III. i. 160 As for the Girondin Formula, of a respectable Republic for the Middle Classes, all manner of Aristocracies being now sufficiently demolished, there seems little reason to expect that the business will stop there. Ibid. 166 The Girondins have left Memoirs, which are too often little other than long-drawn Interjections, of Woe is me and Cursed be ye. 1890 [see next]. 1965 M. J. SYDENHAM Fr. Rev. vii. 185 Thus the trial fulfilled its purpose, and the mythical ‘Girondin party’ was finally imposed on history. 1968 P. O'BRIAN tr. Faÿ's Louis XVI III. ix. 375 The Girondins, more eloquent and greedy than intelligent, wanted to compel the king to give them back their ministerial posts.

    must help when you wake up in the morning and have to face yourself at breakfast...

    pen my friend this is a wonderfully open site to which any and all can contribute. I want to appreciate you contributions but you have a syntax and vocabulary that I struggle with - yet when you wish you can write in plain English.

    I'm a tramp - a university educated one , but your flights of obscure language come across as confusing verbage than sense. Do you wish me to understand what you are saying - or are you simply taking the piss?

    lovbe Mungo....

    pen - I don't want you to go away I want you to speak in non phD.

    I'm interested in the notion of relative and indeed even games theory but I will struggle to believe that you know, of what you speak until you do it in a way that the many understand.

    Best W and kind regards

  48. I too am watching downhill. But by far my favorite was the snowboarding cross. Those boys are a bit cool. I admire the fearlessness overall.

  49. "Deano I don't 'bury myself with certainty', it's you guys who are all so certain of the meaning of words etc

    I wish - I wish I was so certain of the meaning of the words......and better still the syntax and where then the thee becomes the thou, with comma properly placed.

    That's me Mb's all gone for now - Best W all, hope to continue reading you here pen.

    Sad to be brain deaded and not in the swim....

  50. BB, the thread I found was about people who don't eat a certain type of food. People who tend to be rather evangelical in those eating habits, even though they claim not to be.

    And, apparently I have no choice but to allow water to leak all over my floor for a few days. The dishwasher repairman was just here and he says it needs a new pump and it's going to take awhile to get one because this is an old dishwasher and a brand that is hard to find parts for. And, the way it was installed, you can't shut off the water to it without also shutting off the water to the kitchen sink. Oh joy.

  51. Thauma - here's a couple of clues re Dunc's affiliations:

    1. his nick is TIGERdunc
    2. his photo is not of a tiger, as might be expected, but of a teddy wearing a Leicester Tigers rugger shirt.

    I'm here all evening to solve the straightforward questions in life.

    And yes, MF, two very righteous footie results. Cracking result for your boys.

    pen - deano's said it all for me. Most of us on here have read a book or two, and at least one of us doesn't care to be patronised by people who regard themselves as intellectually superior.

    I assume you've read Orwell's Politics and the English Language. Says all that needs to be said about those who use jargon.

  52. boudican - I've finally got a photo of Mungo to post on his site, and a new yarn for me hoped for grandkids ....I'll post it within the next couple of weeks or as soon as I get some credit.

    The yarn is about Mungo and the Furnivall beard - not a pretty story.

  53. Montana - that suxx0rz big time. Hope you get it sorted without being up to your ankles in water.

    My teetotal husband never fails to amaze me with the amazing beers he brings home for me. I gots me some Hobgoblin for this evening. Just about to take me first sip of it. Bliss.

  54. Have found the Deborah Orr fatty thread. It's a rather mean-spirited piece. I've also had the problem of having been seated next to a severely obese person and consequently being unable to sit in a normal position, but, as many posters have pointed out, the airlines really ought not to cram everyone in like bloody sardines.

    On most budget airlines, there is so little space that my knees are jammed up against the seat in front which is also very uncomfortable - tall people must find it unbearable. And then there are the children who shriek and kick your seat for the entire flight.

    /misanthropic rant

  55. Nice work on the John Harris thread, PCC, particularly in enticing JH below the line to engage with your arguments. Not seen him do that before.

    Maybe it's part of the whole Cif/Purnell "empowerment" bollocks.

  56. Hank
    I'm here all evening to solve the straightforward questions in life.

    To get you started. Have you seen the grauns new 'Citizen Ethics' project. interesingly, they have published the first part on the same day there's a hand wringing editorial about shitdribble standing down at the election.

    We are invited to:

    *define what we mean by a good life
    *Decide what our values
    *Cultivate virtue
    *Acquire courage, modesty and wakefulness
    *Consider the fact that our society is riddled with inequality and ponder on whether this matters or not
    *Ask what the 'common good' is and whether our intrinsic humanity lies in the bonds we form with others

  57. Ah, thanks, Hank! As soon as I read your first few words, I realised my stupidity.

    What's happened to Geordan Murphy? Is he off injured? Could look it up, I suppose....

  58. Well, lookee here: "Geordan Murphy scored on his first start after injury as Leicester Tigers beat Gloucester Rugby 33-11 at Welford Road on Saturday."

    Hmm ... Ireland needing a full-back as Kearney's injured....

  59. I saw the open thread on that, sheff. I was going to suggest transparency and treating all people equally, and asking that Cif set an example, but thought it might be seen as unhelpful in terms of the GMG's recruitment policy, not to mention Cif's moderation policy.

    Now, here's a straightforward question from thauma I can deal with...

    Geordan Murphy's not off injured. He's just popped into the dressing room to knock back a Guinness, phone his broker and put the blood pack in place should circs require it.

  60. Just dropping in to give a hearty "Hurrah! You're back!" to heyhabib.

    Also wanted to add that I found out I'm too old to play "Who Am I"-games (see Inglourious Basterds", or just read the plot synopsis) with younger-ish girls who don't guess that the Disney movie "Peter Pan" was made around late 80s/early 90s, don't know it's based on a novel and do not consider the ability to fly a supernatural power.

    When I'm drunk, and I was a little bit last night, these things really annoy me ... Well, but they were nice people, anyways :-)

  61. Deano - ''I want to appreciate you contributions but you have a syntax and vocabulary that I struggle with - yet when you wish you can write in plain English.'' Couldn't have said it better myself. Pen - half the time I am sure I know not what you say.

    Tigerdunc - I checked out the greatest motion picture blog. Watching a good movie is about as entertaining as it gets for me. Our Brussels friend would find me terribly uncouth but I just don't get on with the theatre. Give me a good film any day. I have to echo the reccommends on yesterdays thread re Let the Right One In and the Lives of Others. Both brilliant films.

    I love old movies in particular. Anything from film noir to camp musicals - just love em. I got a Doulas Sirk boxset off Amazon recently. Does anyone remember his films? They were melodramatic stuff that I used to love as a kid. His most famous was Magnificent Obsession with Rock Hudson and Jane Wyman. I have enjoyed re watching them even though they are terribly OTT.

    I am off to the co-op now as I have got a craving for Cadburys mini eggs and those damned Tunnocks wafers I blame the UT for getting me addicted to!

  62. Hey Hank, cheers. He came down to talk to me before on another thread a few weeks ago and give me a link to an article he'd written about the floating voter bastards who are gonna screw us all over - again - at the general election. I generally quite like his stuff so was a bit shocked when I saw the Purnell love.

    I resisted calling Purnell CuntyChops or Shitdribble as I didn't think it would get me very far. I am really, really trying to engage people in a discussion rather than just shout expletives at them and lose my rag (Except for brownoutnow who I reserve the right to insult at will). StyxDweller is making this very hard!

  63. Hank's Ethical Foreign Policy

    So one of my best mates is getting married later this year and has decided that, as we've done Ibiza, Amsterdam, Berlin etc the current jewel in the clubbing crown is Tel Aviv.

    We had a chat about it at the game today and I said that I see it as like going to Sun City under apartheid.

    Sixteen have already signed up for the trip so it's hardly gonna spoil his weekend if I don't go.

    So, as I respect your opinions, and am easily swayed, should I let down my mate, or my principles?

    I need to sign up for flights and accommodation by the end of the month, so go easy on the prevarication, people (-;

  64. Oops, should have made it clear that the Tel aviv trip is the stag weekend, not the wedding itself.

    @PCC - agreed about Harris, he's one of the good guys usually.

  65. Now, Hank, you are admitting to a level of rugby knowledge that belies your professed hatred of the sport.

    Funniest thing I've read all week was a comment on one of the BBC rugby threads (606) re Andy Powell and the regrettable golf buggy incident. It was something like: "He drove the buggy into the police lines, turned it over, then lost possession." (For those of you not up on Welsh rugby, this is exactly Powell's modus operandum on the pitch.)

    Sheff - off to have a look at that thread!

  66. I wouldn't go to Tel Aviv under the current regime there, but that's just me innit.

    Jewel in the clubbing crown at the moment would have to be Frankfurt if you ask me. As well as the over-the-top Cocoon, you also have the amazing Robert Johnson's which is the most bizarre place I have been to. It overlooks the river but is more like upstairs at a youth club than anything glitzy. Yet they attract the best DJs in Europe.

    Tell your mate to cancel and book Frankfurt instead :p

  67. Hank - I wouldn't go, but you could always plead poverty or green feelings to lessen the blow.

  68. ps Am fucking annoyed because I bought some tomatoes today and didn't notice until I got home that they are from Israel.

  69. But the only time that you're satisfied
    Is with your feet in the wishin' well!

    Choon, thaum! Reminding me of my mispent yoof!

  70. Hank I wouldn't go..frankly I recommend Beirut. Not just because my family are Lebanese but truly it is a joy to sit in a club and watch so many beautiful people and the most amazing clubs plus a sense of life propelled by many years of war. And the food is brilliant of course.

  71. Evening all.
    Before you even think about going, you should ask yourself this, Hank: "When I'm drunk, will I start lecturing everybody about cheap holidays in other people's miseries and have everyone think I'm a drag and a hypocrite?" I speak from bitter experience...

  72. On golf, brilliant comment on Mr T Woods' speech by golf blogger in sports section. Very well put.

  73. Hank

    I'd go with my principles on this one. Added to which imagine the potential trouble. You're not exactly backward in coming forward and when pissed could you keep your mouth shut? I hear Israeli nicks are pretty grim and its a long way to go for a visit.

    Plus an Israeli stamp in your passport means no go to some other arab countries you might fancyin the future

  74. Hank

    tricky..do they do Stella out there?

  75. Martillo - that made me laugh 'cos it's true! Nice to see you around.

    Sheff - it's all wrong, but it's all right - for a bit of nostalgia.

  76. Hi martillo - great result for Barca (-; And a big one for the Hammers too.

    You make a good point, but of course I never (a) get drunk or (b) lecture people. Ha ha ha.

    Grateful for all your comments, but he is a good mate. And for all the old-timers on here, he was the one who got banged up last year.

    Definitely conflicted on this one.

  77. Er ... I meant to dedicate the latest to BB ... but Sheff was the latest poster in the list so my short-term memory loss took over. Of course Sheff welcome to listen too!

  78. Hank - take him out yourself as a substitute and then go to the wedding.

  79. Fuck it, Hank, just e-mail him this and have done with it.

  80. 'I got a Douglas Sirk boxset off Amazon recently. Does anyone remember his films?'

    God yes. Our film/media lecturer was obsessed with Sirk and after a while I began see his point - the films are brilliant. Fassbinder did a remake of at least one. I can't remember what it was called but I went to the GFT to see it - by the time it finished I was the only person left in the stalls!

    Fashions come and go. At one time Bogdanovich was the coming master but now I expect he is only remembered as a shrink in the Sopranos. Celavee!

  81. Hi thauma. Nice tune.

    You're right to be conflicted, Hank. A good mate trumps most things. And you're definitely right about the Hammers. I'm daring to dream about Premier football next year.

  82. "take him out yourself as a substitute and then go to the wedding"

    Not sure about this, thaum. "take him out" in a Fat Tony kinda way? Don't think I could really turn up to the wedding if I did that.

    Stella's already invited, MF. Not sure what plans she's got for later.

    @sheff - "when pissed could you keep your mouth shut?" -have you had your memory wiped, sheff? (-;

  83. Edwin - wot, this one? ;-)

    Funniest line ever in the Sopranos, but the clip lacks the build-up.

  84. Hank - dunno who Fat Tony is, but I can guess your meaning. ;-)

    @sheff - "when pissed could you keep your mouth shut?" -have you had your memory wiped, sheff? (-;

    But you claimed you weren't pissed, even if the rest of us were fucking paralytic....

  85. Last Picture Show was a good film though, edwin. And Peter Bog was squiring Cybill Shepherd when they made the filum. Jammy bastard.

    As for old films, I'm currently going through a phase of watching the old Tracy/Hepburn battle of the sexes films.

    Am I the only person who thinks that Katherine Hepburn was sexier than Audrey Hepburn?

  86. I lied Thauma...

    Hank - go if you must and if the worst comes to the worst and you piss off the Israelis (which knowing you is very likely), I promise to visit you in the nick.

  87. Thauma - I wasn't pissed then. I was talking about the good old days on Cif when I'd get banned for, well, hardly any good reason at all.

  88. @sheff - we were discussing the holiday this evening, as I said, and the bride to be said that she'll be spending the whole 4 days on valium anyway.

    She added that if I signed up, she'd be doubling the dose.

  89. Wot, do you all mean to say I'm the only one who was pissed? Where's BW?

  90. She added that if I signed up, she'd be doubling the dose

    A four day piss up in Tel Aviv? I don't fancy your chances Hank. The bride sounds like a sensible woman...I don't know your friend but if he's anything like you I'd be worried if I were her.

  91. Mossad will be nicking your passport....

  92. "Last Picture Show"..wasn't that Wayne Bridges's first film?

    Strangely, he was interviewed by the Graun this week. This cropped up..

    ""My dad loved showbusiness," he explains. "Travelling around, working with other people, and he encouraged me to go into it. But, typical kid, you don't want to do what your parents want you to do. You don't want to be liked because of who your father is. You don't want to get a job because of who your father is. The hardest thing about acting is getting a foot in the door and that was all handled by my dad. The fact is, I'm a product of nepotism. And that took some getting used to." Does he sometimes wish that he had struggled more? If he had crawled through the gutter, he might have a greater appreciation for where he is today. "Well, there are all kinds of gutters," he shrugs. "Life will supply you with gutters. Having a famous father. Feeling that stench of nepotism. That's a gutter right there."

    ..so can you people just lay off young Bella and co..How would you like to wake every morning to the "stench of nepotism"? It's a fuckin miracle the gal doesn't take the easy option and go and get her own job. Thank god she's got the balls to stick it out and wade through the prejudice...a lesser 'journalist' would have crumbled by now.

  93. Hank: I wouldn't go. Friend or not. But then, I'm a sanctimonious cow.

    BB: Found the fatties thread. What an arrogant cunt.

  94. Hi All--deano, looking forward to the pics of the famous Mungo. Shame you're off for a bit, talk to you soon.

    Hank--Must be a difficult decision, one hates to let a friend down. As for me, I'm with BB and thauma, I wouldn't go on account of policies.

    --Interesting footie results. David Moyes doesn't get enough credit for the fine job he does. Always competitive, albeit with a small budget.

  95. Here's my Free fave.

    As an overweight pauper, I'm staying away from those threads..

  96. A cautionary tale for the idealists expecting a dream home.

  97. "It's a fuckin miracle the gal doesn't take the easy option and go and get her own job."

    Top rant, MF. Liked the twitter feed flagged up on Jessica Amato's blowjob for Purnell yesterday too.

    What a bunch of self-important cunts they are.

    Anyway, moving on, here's the divine Kate


  98. Anyway, as I'm sure you know Hank It ain't easy


  99. Ms Robinson--Yes, good piece by Scott Murray on Tiger. Why the hell do these people shit on Buddhists? Not one myself, but it bothers me that the Murdoch minions on Faux News seem to think of Buddhism as some substandard way of thinking.

    Montana--To answer your question from last night, my golf club headcovers proudly display the Saltire.

  100. Oh OK I'll try and briefly respond without too much needling.

    Hank, you give yourself an awful lot of licence don't be such a wuss.

    Relativists come in all sorts of types, mostly they do not call themselves it they just are. It is a consequence of local framing / context effects, this is cognitive psychology.

    Quite the reverse to patronising you I am doing you the courtesy of trying to address you as my peers rather than preach from a pulpit. But (slightly snarky) since you do not understand you mis percieve me. Misuderstanding in human relationships Ichheiser.

    I have given plenty of refs to this stuff before but you hardly ever pay any attention. All too busy on hats, football and films etc.

    Yes Deano I am not a girondist as they are a particular group just like left right , dimensionality of a political space. Phillipa has been on about it. I could go on and on but why bother I'll be accussed of showing off or ignored cos you don't understand.

    " called traitor to my face, must be my traitors heart" The Traitor (Cohen) My Traitors Heart Ryan Malan.

    Also prospect theory Kahneman and Tversky

    Sorry I try and compress info by using texts and whatever to generate more potential meaning. If you know the texts / refs you'll get more meaning.

    You treat reading as 'reading' but it is a cognitive task of exploring meaning and not just setting it into monolithic singularity.

    And I agree with you Deano, I do not think I have the 'answer' like that. And mostly of course it depends upon the nitty gritty in the instance in practice.

    I'll see if I continue here or not. It's a bit too cliquey for me. But I'm used to that, as I said I've got a traitors heart, I stole it from one and gave them mine. But that's the kind of guy I am, so kind haha.

  101. Nice one, Turminder, haven't heard it before. (Woo, some very tight jeans!) A critic once described Paul Rodgers as 'one of the great throats of rock'n'roll, if not one of the great minds'. Agree, me.

    Here's one for tha mista. ;-)

  102. Choon Martillo!

    I do wish that people would learn to spell Katharine Hepburn's name correctly. Someone upthread was guilty. Others have prevaricated with 'Kate'.

  103. Evening all

    To address some of the above in one rambling but sadly fiscally enforced sobre post (I've been at this sobriety lark for a month and I can't say I like it)

    And also without attributing comments about rugby, films and anything to anyone as I can't be bothered to go back and check

    Rugby, yup, well spotted Hank. Tigers (I was born in Leicester by mistake) and Scotland (Scottish parentage).

    Films - Thanks for checking out that site. The idea is just to generate some intelligent but not snobby or elitist comment and writing about films in general, any film, anything goes, just write about whatever rocks your boat.

    I ended up watching the Godfather and GFIII last night. Skipped GF II as that would have meant sitting up all night and I caught it on the box a few days back.


    I'm puzzled by the end, the very last scene of him aged and dying on the chair in the courtyard. I get the symbolism of him dying alone and with nothing, but the timeline makes no sense. Is this in the future? Is it what is going to happen? If the penultimate scene outside the opera house is contemporary, then how is he twenty or so years older? It jars and makes no sense. Any thoughts?
    Other than that, I revise my opinion about GFIII. It isn't bad, but it just doesn't measure up to GF or GFII against which it is inevitably compared. Thing is, not much else does either. The original Godfather, in my own humble opinion is as close to perfect film making as it gets. Not a frame, a line, a shot out of place or surplus.

    Haven't seen the fatties thread, couldn't find it, but probably just as well. I've written before on Cif that people who have a go are the equilvalent of schoolyard bulies. Having a go because they can get away with it. Although last time a Cif regular (who shall remain nameless) accused me of meaning only working class people, which was more an indictment of his/her preoccupations than anything else. Anyway, fatties (and I am one so I can say that) are seen as legit targets, so the bullies will have their say, safe in the knowledge that in cyberspace I can't catch them and sit on them (and at over 20 stone, that is a heavy penalty).

    And I have never seen 'The Last Picture Show' although I would really like to.

    Hank - Go to Israel if you want to. I don't agree with their policies, but I'd love to see the place. So much history, so much to experience. Don't let the others guilt you out of it ;).

    Habib - Nice to see you back, hope you are on the mend.

    See, you were warned. Rambling and barely coherent. I'm better when I'm lubricated. I sing better too. And fight better. And am more attractive to women. Honest.

  104. And this is my favourite free track

    Katharine Hepburn. OK, now I have to watch Bringing up Baby yet again.

  105. Hi Turminder , have not seen them for ages and they are dim and distant in my memory, wouldn't mind seeing them again just to see but... Did you check out the additional recommends on the Banks thread? I have read them all :) gee sorry.

    Hi Martillo, good to see you. Loved the last link. Was in New York last year and gave a bum a buck as I walked away he shouted "Has any one told you you look like David Bowie" I had to smile and answer many times. Still we both gained from the exchange.

  106. TigerD - OK, glad to hear I wasn't completely off-base with the Scottish guess!

    Cannae remember if I've watched GFIII, but your description of the ending reminds me of the ending of Paul Scofield's superb Lear. Lemme have a rummage around YouTube....

  107. I love Bringing Up Baby, martillo, great film. if you're in that kinda screwball mood, his Girl Friday is another Cary Grant classic.

    As far as Hepburn is concerned though, Adam's Rib, Woman of the Year and the Philly Story are all enough reason to fall in love with her. African Queen and Guess Who's Coming to Dinner are reason enough to venerate her.

    One true Hepburn for me.

    And yes, thauma, I did misspell her name. Compromising with "kate" is not the same as prevaricating though, pednat (-;

  108. And, yes, before you ask, "pednat" is a word. The OED defines it as an Irish troublemaker up past her bedtime.

  109. You look like David Bowie, pen? I love you even more! I was asked once or twice if I was Paul Rodgers. And Rasputin...

    Not very 'pc' I suppose, but a great track of its kind

  110. And forgot to add - Audrey over Kate. Kate more talented, but Audrey just so beautiful and delicate and exquisite.

    Found the fatties thread, cheers MH. Cannot think of anything to say which will not get removed pdq.

  111. Sir Scorpio, the etymology of 'pednat' that you claim is clearly wrong. It obviously means "the mere foot of a small, annoying creature".

    Pen, so you look like DB, eh? Which one?

    father, she caved my head?

  112. Rasputin's good, he was a sex machine.

    You should have seen me when I had blue hair, it was quite the riot :)

  113. It was hard being a lecturer, lots of temptation. Every year someone or other would sidle up to me and tell me how all the first years were in love with me as though I didn't know it.

    They loved it when I went to a fancy dress party as Cher.

    Of course I don't look like Bowie my figure if far better. Love you too Martillo : )

  114. The beautiful one of course Thauma,

    (My actions make me beautiful REM)

  115. Have I ever mentioned, btw, that I fucking hate private education with a passion?

    So the debate on Cif


    is turning me homicidal?

  116. Turminder, as a feminist, I must take very great exception to the fact that the woman pictured in the video is headless. It's almost like ... oh, yeah, never mind.

    An obvious one, but this be my favourite reggae choon.

  117. Oh dear,

    And me being the product of a fee paying, boys only boarding school as well.

    Just when we where getting on so well....

  118. Yes, TD. Exactly why I couldn't comment. Deleted or banned.

  119. Hank I agree. Of course I do. I was glad to be exiled to the states (Santa Cruz is lovely) at least my kids went to local schools.

  120. Hank, that Stu is an obvious troll. No-one can be that much of a twat.

  121. Pen - have stayed in Santa Cruz. It is lovely, even in the downmarket, rather seedy area in which I found myself - which I'm sure I enjoyed more than I would have the posher areas.

    You haven't run into a bloke known as Long John Silver, have you?

  122. "Seedy" is the wrong word entirely. "Slightly run-down" would be better.

  123. No, I knew a Merlin and a Gabriel tho'. It varied but was always lovely (which itself could be monotonous). Was there for a couple of years and enjoyed it mostly. We were not exactly posh but sure had a nice spot right on the edge of town.

    In my defense I have not claimed a penny from the state for years (teens) and have earned or come by what we spent honestly.

  124. "You haven't run into a bloke known as Long John Silver, have you?"

    Every chance he will have done, thaum. I'm guessing John would have struggled to hop out of the way.

  125. Don't worry about him Hank, I would have got out of his way long before.

  126. 'Long John' was quite a character (and no doubt still is) but had, in fact, the full use of his limbs. I spent a few days smoking, drinking, smoking other stuff, playing guitar and singing in his gaff. Lovely time.

    Off to bed. I leave you with Délibes' Flower Duet as performed for The Hunger soundtrack - best recording I've heard of it. Dodgy video, but no doubt the hetero blokes will like it. ;-)

  127. He sounds ok then Thauma, shame I missed him. Merlin and Gabriel were ok too. And yeah that sounds about right for my experience but longer.

    Glad you enjoyed it.


  128. This comment has been removed by the author.

  129. Here's a better link, good vid with tthis one n all. Sweet dreams..

  130. "A future fair for all" seriously underwhelming that! Welsh Labour, whilst far from perfect is a bit more inspiring.

    Went to LP meeting this morning - first one in ages. It was to select a candidate for the AM (member of the Welsh Assembly)for my constituency a meeting open to all members in the constituency!

    When most LP meetings consist of one man and his dog plus a few NuLab apparatchicks this one which allowed members an actual say in LP matters attracted over 200

    We heard speeches, asked questions and then voted. The guy who won was a real socialist who as advisor to Rhodri Morgan (former 1st minister) was already largely responsible for Welsh Labour's 'clear red water' policies like free bus passes for pensioners (valid all over Wales) and free prescriptions for everyone, we have also drastically reduced the testing of children in schools.

    He made a great speech the first speech in years from a Labour politician that actually inspired me

    Now we just have to get him into the assembly!

    While I acknowlege that the LP was never fully socialist it was at least democratic in the past. At least here in Wales we do have a degree of democratic control over who represents us in the assembly, which even with its limited powers, is still able to have a positive effect on people's lives and could even do more if we had full legislative powers as in Scotland.

    However if the devolution experiment is to be fully successful, the Labour Party should be campaigning for an English parliament as well. The present situation is constitutionally messy!

    Of course ultimately the LP will not achieve socialism but it was at one time a party that working people could trust to put their point of view. After this morning I do feel that its possible that someone could speak for me.

    Nationally (as in UK wide) thats not the case.

  131. Hank - re the trip I probably wouldn't go but then would spend the whole weekend feeling guilty about it. It is a difficult one and I don't envy you having to decide.

    Re Hepburns I cant actually pick one. Ilove Audrey and my dog Holly (princesschipchops) is named after Holly Golightly (although these days she goes by the shortened version of her 'show' name -Choppy.) But Katharine had amazing style and was a brilliant actress. She also had bone structure to die for. Bringing up Baby is just fantastic.

    My favourite though - and I know that my visiting rights are probably going to be taken away right now - is Doris Day. Don't all throw things at once and just pause to think how brave an admission that is! I love Pillow Talk and Calamity Jane. My mother went through a bit of a radfem period and I could plunge her into despair just by humming Deadwood Stage.

    EdwinMoore - I find the films really, weirdly mesmerising. I first saw All That Heaven Allows when I was about ten and was just hooked. It was quite dreamlike in a way. Anyway, re watching them now I still find them strangely compelling. He was just seen as a 'womans director' in his time but a lot of people are seeing the genius in the stuff he did now.

  132. princesschipchops

    'and I know that my visiting rights are probably going to be taken away right now..'

    Well que sera sera.

  133. 'Well que sera sera.' Boom boom! Ah another Doris great.

  134. Hey Anne, Just read your post. That sounds really positive!

  135. Hallo Anne

    Who is your candidate - we have the useless Brian Gibbons here - he is retiring so maybe better luck next time.

    Would love to meet you - can make Cardiff. Montana has my email.

  136. Hi All

    Just come for a quick growl.

    Education thread - read and weep.

  137. I'm back from the west country.

    Hank. Don't go to Israel. It's a bollocks proposition; the best they've got is maccabees beer and bizarre sideburns.

    Heres a Gil Scott Heron classic by the way.


  138. By the way Hank. My best mate has asked me to be best man next year when he gets married to a needy Tory control freak. A social worker who hates her clients, pretends to be a hippy but is basically a very fucked up rich kid.

    Sod the weekend on the piss. What am I supposed to say at the wedding ?

    Get the bongs out everyone ?

    I'm fucked.

  139. Perhaps we can get her a job on CiF.

  140. Hi Leni - yeh, the education thread eh? Grrr.

    Ah, BW, so you're back, from outer space, with that sad look upon your face (-;

    Am fucked too so time for bed. Nite all x

  141. Hank. Song from the West Country.


  142. Hey Bitterweed! Good to see you. You didn't stop by to see Andy while you were out there, did you?

  143. Hi Montana ! No it was a very very fleeting visit, and in filthy travelling conditions at that, but I was in his environs. Wadebridge. How's tricks ???

    Here's Stevie Ray Vaughan and Lonnie Mack ripping it up like it's gouing out of style. Too good.


    Here also is Show of Hands telling it like it is. AIG. Arrogance, Ignorance and Greed.


  144. Monkeyfish
    I was laughing like a drain driving up the M5 today when your lot stuffed UTD. By the way.

  145. I used to play this one Montana. And loved it.

    It was one of my favourites. Played it on the dying free festival and country fair circuit. Including Glastonbury 1984, when I had just left school. Around Wales too that summer.

    Thatcher's world was raining down like Chernobyl, and no one I'd grown up with thought anything elses than her proposition was worth entertaining. The fucking idiots. I bet they wonder now too some of them.


    But those festival nights... christ they'll stay with me.

    PAID to show up and play those cloudless, endless campfire nights....

  146. Best til last. Mahler. 5. Addagietto.


    Or first of the day may be.

  147. Hey Bitterweed--A fine pick with SRV and Lonnie Mack. Your tastes in blues, I think, very much jibe with mine. And to think our good hostess Montana didn't care much for the blues. Yourself, Habib, Hank and others have seen to it that the lady has been introduced to the finest in the genre. Keep them coming.

  148. Yo Boudican

    Check this


    What's the word on habib ?

  149. Quick Boudican
    While we still have the chance....


  150. Boudican
    I have to go.

    Two for one
    A great, great song

    Followed by the best song ever.

    God Damn.


  151. Bitterweed--Good choices. Don't know the score with Habib. Pulling for him to be victorious and musically savvy as ever. Along with his good nature.

    Heard anything from 3p4? Been absent for 2 weeks or so.

    Almost 10 pm here, going for the allnighter?


  152. Mark Drakeford Leni, really nice guy and a good socialist.

    Montana can you give Leni my email?

  153. Morning all. Have just fixed another power out without needing to resort to the agency, EDF, or candles. Am going to gaffer tape over that plug later...

    Edwin - Lynd Ward - some kind publishing house put out new editions a couple of years back - but if you manage to get hold of an original (I have a first and second edition of two of them) they are gorgeous things - albeit v expensive (mine were purchased some time ago). Keep thinking I'll try using a print or two and running off some versions in oil... Ward's Dad was something of a Methodist socialist firebrand, leading light in the ACLU and tabbed by the HUAC. Interesting history as well as art / politics in the books themselves.

    MsR - "A future fair sounds like we will all be soon invited to an event in the local church gardens" - nice one! A Britain of refined garden parties, with quiche and crustless sandwiches, maybe a tombola, or a raffle, to see who gets NHS treatment or a decent school...

    Greatly enjoyed watching the second half of Everton v Them yesterday, which enjoyment involved afternoon drinking and thus being out for the count rather early... Am trying to track down which channel has City v Pool later to see if any inroads can be made in the top 3's lead.

    Pen - have to admit I've been puzzled by what your position is - seems like it's that you see only the universal (connected to everything) and the individual, with nothing in between? Groupings may not always be wholly positive but they are a natural state for us, surely?

    Deano - bless you. Difficult to talk / type about depression sometimes (can make me a bit weepy) but I do think that talking about it can help with engendering greater understanding (and be cathartic / collective for those sharing their own stories).

    Anyway - now electricity working again, going to put the kettle on...

  154. Morning all - scherf - we're in need of a new thread this morning


    Great post about the selection of your new AM. We been stuck with Richard Caborn (Class 1 tosser and sucker up to the mighty) but thankfully he's going at the election. Still don't know who's replacing him but am not holding out much hope that we'll get a proper socialist.

  155. One of the two deluded bretheren that find cause to support my CiF diatribes alerted me to this website - and Alasdair Cameron's bitchy comments about me.

    I'm not here to challenge Alasdair's assessment - heaven knows I give good reason for people to snipe - but merely to demonstrate the gloriously incestuous world of CiF, which has seen fit to moderate my comments in advance of their being posted.

    The cause of my PNG was this post, which offended a coterie of readers:

    "I recall Kampfner's distinctive voice at the time of the London bombings, when he handed the front cover of the New Statesman to John Pilger whose gutless bilge of an article was entitled 'Blair's Bombs'.

    That piece of rank journalism should have secured Kampfner's resignation, but no, the bloated jobsworth stayed on for three years more, like the shameless parasitical louse he is.

    His cynical, pointless leer at efforts to neutralise the Taliban is characteristic of a small man's self-loathing, which at least affords it some authenticity."

    OK, it wasn't pleasant, but sheffpixie - on a later thread and without any blowback wrote in reference to Purnell:

    "Ambitious politico does volte-face - presumably in an attempt to cling on to power. Just shows what an untrustworthy little creep Purnell is."

    And Dormsville - with even less regard for sensitivities wrote, simply:

    "Purnell's a cunt."

    I'm aware that the Guardian's moderation policy causes consternation for many besides me, but its partisanship is a disgrace and reinforces the now established view that the website primarily serves comentators who hold to the prevailing view of the paper itself.

    I instinctively loathe the cosy consensus CiF encourages - for the obvious reason it denudes the pluralism the Guardian ostenisbly cherishes.

  156. peter, we all know that the moderation is a total bollocks, but it's very amusing that you think that Cif is partisan with regard to those who hold the paper's view. Have you never actually noticed just how many frothing right-wing nutjobs, racists and NewLabour-haters constantly infest the comment pages. And, believe me, they have increased exponentially over the last year or so. I don't comment on Cif any more, and many left-wing posters have either been bannned or left voluntarily. As for Cif 'seeing fit to moderate your comments in advance of their being posted', you're fucking joking aren't you? That's being going on for a long time, and has happened to lots of the regular posters here (including me). Par for the course, mate. You don't really think you're real dangerous and special or something, do you?

    You sound like you're whining about 'being silenced' unfairly because of your views. It's not quite so complex as that, I fear. Cif are just total wankers.

  157. scherfig:

    I don't mind the 'frothing haters' of any complexion. But you're wrong not to see the leaning that CiF encourages by its peurile filtration process.

    Also, I'm not claiming any specialness by highlighting my frustration with the moderators: just pointing up the inconsistencies.

    I can live with the vitriol and the bile - much of it my own; just not with the endorsed infantile, back-slapping fraternity that passes for, er, cutting-edge solidarity.

  158. peter, today's thread is open, you should pop in. here