17 February 2011


They are ill discoverers that think there is no land, when they can see nothing but sea.
-Sir Francis Bacon


  1. Best wishes to Spike. Hope all goes well.

  2. Posted this the other night but it got spam binned.So once again here's Mr Joe Cocker singing his version of Inner City Blues

  3. Ooops! Link didn't work.

    Take 2

    @Hi Montana.

  4. Posted link again and it worked BUT went straight into the spam folder.If people get a chance i recommend they listed to the Joe Cocker cover of the Marvin Gaye classi.IMO it's pretty damn good!

  5. America is expressing concern at the failure of the Egyptian military to live up to it's promises.You can read about it HERE

    @ps.I know this is a new thread but where's the nightshift?

  6. Morning......

    Don't know if anyone's seen this, but apparently the 10% cut to Housing Benefit for the unemployed after a year has been dropped from the Welfare Bill following the 'intervention of Nick Clegg'.

    benefit cut dropped

    Well, well, well.....

  7. ....well......a lot of the Housing Benefit paid out ends up in the wallets of private landlords who thank god (and vote Tory) for their property/pension portfolios........perhaps we shouldn't be too surprised.

  8. As we enter the stadium to watch Thatcher II - Hyperdrive Setting 11" unfold before us, we should add to the short list of "Don't get old" and "Don't get ill" under a Neo-Nasty government a new caveat:

    "Don't imagine that hard work and thrift will save you from depending on food handouts."

    This is obviously another import from the lovely land of dreams - which, cunningly, can only be dreamt by the rich and are offset by their nightmare counterparts for the filthy poor.


    In 21st century Britain, you would not expect people across the country to need food handouts to survive - particularly those with jobs. But that's exactly what Political Editor Gary Gibbon finds.

    There is a new phenomenon being reported by the foodbanks which throws light on life in Britain for many today. They say their biggest growing cohort of people coming for help getting food on the table are people who either have an income, or people in a household where there is an income.

    In-work poverty was a growing phenomenon in the UK – the latest estimate is that 53 per cent of working age households in poverty have at least one working adult. This is around 2.3m households, after factoring in housing costs. What the foodbank experience suggests is that these individuals are finding they plummet into crisis situations suddenly and more frequently.

    The latest National Institute of Economic and Social Research revealed that 97 per cent of the jobs created since the recession ended are part-time.

    Political Editor Gary Gibbon said: "Tax credits don't seem to protect these people. The market doesn't want to pay them at the rate for the hours they want to work. Politicians have told workers that getting into work is the promised land, but what if it isn't? And what if the economic recovery doesn't float all boats?"


    I saw the report on Channel 4 News yesterday (with interruptions and distractions) and it seems that charities like the Trussel Trust have about 40 [?] food-parcel collection and distribution centres across Broken Britain at the moment.

    However, they plan to increase this to about 400 [?] over the coming years.

    Surely, this is a pretty strong indicator that this type of poverty is intended to become the norm by the government and there are no plans to actively prevent it or ameliorate it.

    The plan seems to be to ensure that it becomes a permanent fixture of the Big Society and the labour market pour encourager les autres.

    Actually, the next stage is probably to enhance the nil-time contract for employment and extend it to a "Work For Food" system.

    A bit like the old slave system.

    We already know that there are plans to force the unemployed to move to wherever the government tells them they have a better chance of finding work.

    There must be abandoned and derelict buildings which could be used to house the work-shy and earn the landlords a pretty penny.

    Obviously, you wouldn't want to put a massive iron gate with a wrought-iron "Arbeit macht Frei" above it to keep them in.

    It would probably be better to think of another word to replace ghetto as well.

    Even poor-house would be better than that.

    Still, if you are looking for a bit of PR to make the exercise palatable, Dave's yer mate on that one.

    Along with Rupert Murdoch and Paul Dacre.

    Obviously, JezzaBella and Ms Handjob help out in whatever small way they can.

  9. BBC News 17th February 2011- Special Report by 13th Duke.

    Welfare overhaul to be outlined by Ministers

    The government is to set out how it intends to overhaul the welfare system to try to make work pay better and to tackle the "benefit culture".
    New sanctions for those in the City turning down bonuses and no cap on subsidies paid to previously nationalized industry providers such as the privatized Railway companies will be among the changes outlined in a welfare reform bill on Thursday. Current rules "encourage people to act irresponsibly", David Cameron has said.

    We didn’t finding out the Labour reaction as they are irrelevant and anyway the intern cub reporter charged with reporting on David Milliband tweeted in sick.

    Ministers will explain how they plan to reshape the welfare system to try to ensure Bankers are better off on Government benefits, to simplify its operation and to help streamline the system to ensure payments are made to the correct claimants- to the people who fund the Conservative Party.

    The Conservatives say the fact that innumerable corporations, Banks and privatized service providers of working age are on taxpayer benefits, most of those for over three decades, shows that the current system is working.

    Ahead of the announcement, David Cameron said the "collective culture of taxpayer responsibility" which had underpinned the benefits system for more than 30 years had eroded in recent years. "The benefits system has created a benefit culture, a culture we can all be proud of" he said. "It allows people to act irresponsibly and actively encourages them to do so. However, recently Taxpayers have shown an alarming and erroneous lack of respect for those on state subsidies and I hope today’s speech and implemented policies will go a long way to show the people of Britain that we have an entrenched community of benefit cheats that Britain can be proud of."

    In addition Work and Pensions Secretary Iain Duncan Smith has been formulating policy on creating a British workforce, one we can all proud of. Duncan Smith told the BBC it used to be the case that most new jobs were taken by people from overseas because "our own people, young and middle-aged, wouldn't take and couldn't take those jobs due to the utterly appalling wages on offer that I frankly wouldn’t pay my dog to do.”

    "That will be a thing of the past," he said.
    "What will happen is British people will genuinely be able to access dirt poor, subsistence wage British jobs because they will be incentivised to take those jobs. We will expect them to take those jobs whilst their benefit payments are paid directly to the worthy receiver- the entrenched benefit business and banking community.”

    Duncan Smith continued- "A life on benefits will continue to be an option for the right people. Our type of people. Right no there are huge numbers of people sitting on benefits, sometimes in rented chrome and glass offices that people who work could never dream of affording."

    In addition, Duncan Smith is currently working with Professor Steven Hawking on a time machine which will allow Duncan Smith to travel back in time to 1834 to watch the Poor Law amendment act being implemented.

    “The machine is at an advanced stage of development and I hope to have travelled back to 1834 in time for the 2012 Conservative Party Conference. The opportunity to see my own Victorian-Malthusian-Religionist hypocritical pity for the undeserving poor actually being implemented ‘real time’ and to see workhouse construction in full flow really gets me hard.” Duncan Smith gasped breathing heavily and excitedly.

  10. The Trussell Trust - an Evangelical Christian group coming your way soon.

    After their success in Bulgaria with homeless Rroma families the Trust set up their food banks in Britain and are to roll them out across the country as part of the BS approach to cutting benefits and forcing half the population into part time work which pays too little to feed a budgie.

    Supported by Job Centres, which act as voucher distribution centres, and local councils who offer support and publicity the Trust intends to feed the 13 million and rising British people who are currently going hungry.

    The Trust will restore dignity to the hungry as they will no longer have to beg on the streets themselves. The Trust does their begging for them. It converts the contributuions of money and tinned food into neat parcels which are then handed to the grateful recipients.

    Men and women who have failed to receive the benefits due to them or who work for below living wage are to stand in line to receive this Christian benificence.

    This is a brave and courageous move on the part of Dave to relieve the employers and the statutory authorities of the responsibility to pay decent wages and ensure that the Benefits system runs smoothly and efficiently. This is citizen responsibility. This is BS in action.

    The privatisation of poverty. There is profit in poverty as well as the assurance that feeding the poor will make baby Jesus smile.

  11. 13th and leni...

    Excellent posts makes the point amusingly and well!

    How much worse must it get before we get onto the streets?

    How much longer are we going to tolerate this robbing of the poor to pay the rich?

    Dooh Nibors all of them :)

  12. Leni

    The Trust will restore dignity to the hungry as they will no longer have to beg on the streets themselves.

    Perhaps, but only for as long as it takes Iain Duncan Smith to spot that a chance is being missed with that plan.

    The poor could be issued with begging licences and have to carry stamped tags - or maybe just be tattooed if they are long-term filth - to identify them as something other than properly human, like the Bedlamites.

    Even the mighty "Feedathon" of the Trussel Trust may not be able to manage to keep everyone from starving, if the Adam Smith wealth-supremacists get their way


    Youth unemployment in the UK is at a record high, with nearly a million 16 to 24-year olds out of work – 20.5% of that age group. Around 600,000 of them have never worked at all.

    Youth unemployment is particularly worrying. If young people cannot get a job and learn work skills, and the basic habits of work, it blights their whole lives. Sadly, too few youngsters are not getting into the work stream but instead are getting drawn into the welfare stream. Instead of learning about life in work, they are learning about life on benefits. [...]

    It's time to scrap the minimum wage for young people. It just prices them out of jobs, so does them no good at all. For them, low-paid work is a way of building up some human capital that will make it easier to find a better job. But we stop them even getting that work at all – and all in the name of protecting workers.


    Wouldn't it just be easier to declare the poor a separate species and put them into special wildlife parks.

    Britain could then earn tourist dollars by inviting the rich to hunt and shoot them in Broken Britain's very own damp and drizzly safari parks.

    After all, once you have got the whole world working as slaves, there are going to be millions of lumpy, large-as-life semi-people who are going to be using up the resources of productive food-only workers.

    Some kind of solution has to be found.

  13. The sad thing about welfare reform is that Ed agrees with Nick and Dave. In the few mumbles he has made since ascending to the New New Labour throne, he's said that Labour "didn't do enough" on welfare reform. He's also thrown in the odd anecdote about talking to salt of the earth types who told him "Your liege, there's me workin' me hole off and then there's cahnts dahn the road gettin' £3,000 a week for sittin' on their arses. I think they're Somali."

    You see, Ed 'gets it' about welfare scum. He 'gets it' about the darkies, ahem, immigration. And he gets some nice woman from Estonia to stick a hoover around the place once a week.

    Screw the Big Society. This is the Big Consensus. And Ed wouldn't change a thing.

  14. Atoms

    You could have something there.

    The U turn on the sale of forests will leave valuable hunting grounds in the hands of the gvt.

    They could reinstate the hierarchy of hunting reserving the larger , wilder scummy types for royalty and aristocracy leaving the thinner and more feeble to the middle orders.

    New poaching laws would be needed of course but there would be job creation shemes here for the wilder eyed Tory supporters and members of the EDL.

  15. In other news, it turns out that the wealthy are far more to be pitied than the poor:

    The reality is that suicides often come from affluent, if not downright wealthy backgrounds (has been with all those I have known) and the guilt and trauma of the families who have to live with the loss afterwards is not something I would wish on anyone.

    Suicide can be a consequence of depression or an emotional upheaval such as a messy divorce. If there are people on websites threatening suicide for heaven's sake contact them and offer them practical support and help. If it's a question of money, how about rustling up a collection?

    The Bruppet showing her usual compassion and incisive analytical skills.

  16. Anne

    In truth I find it very difficult to express the anger and incomprehension that I am feeling. How can a so called democratic gvt. of one of the richest countries in the world seriously suggest, in the C21st. that around 10% of citizens should live on charity - or starve ?

    We will soon be in a position where every family who has a £ or 2 above their own basic needs is helping to keep a family with even less. To describe it as a downward spiral is inadequate.

    These policies are trumpeted as enlightened and progressive, backed by mc idiots who believe themselves immune to poverty and desperation . They are extolled by the loving CHristians and actively promoted by those who claim a social conscience as evidence of citizen responsibility.

    It is beyond a nightmare - certainly beyond my understanding.

    But then I am just a thick prole I suppose. I must learn to let my betters do my thinking for me - or go mad.

  17. And why are there "currently 300 British student activists in Paris plotting revolution"? Wouldn't it have made more sense to have 3,000 student activists in Dudley plotting revolution? Doesn't it put the very poorest students at a participatory disadvantage?

    Is this a gap yah revolution or can anyone join in?

  18. you see Thauma, the poor are so much better off because their problems can be solved with money, dilemmas such as whether to where the black or gold dress to the ambassadors reception are so much harder!

  19. It's staggering that such flap-jawed self-regarding air-headed bullshit is held in such high esteem. Goddamn retard.

  20. Whether to "wear" and "ambassador's" obviously, engage brain Dot!

  21. Thauma

    Bru only knows the rich - she wouldn't be aware of suicide among the poor and disabled as she isn't aware of them when they are alive.

    They just don't impinge dahling.

  22. Duke:

    Very funny and oh so true!


    Funny isn't it, I had my suspicions about the Trussel Trust from the documentary on C4. I seem to remember it being said that they are a US Christin organisation.

    As for the riot police shooting live rounds in Bahrain. Disgusting, but I can't help thinking that as it is one of the US Govt.'s most loyal allies, the populace have been dealt with far more severely than in Egypt and there have been behind the scenes moves to now hold back the tide.

    Also, how come all the news has gone quiet on Tunisia?

  23. LaRit

    The media like to be where there might be blood on the streets - better pics you know.

    Like Burma - we only hear about it when the people demonstrate and are shot dead.

    The media needs is blood fix.

  24. Leni,

    These policies are trumpeted as enlightened and progressive, backed by mc idiots who believe themselves immune to poverty and desperation . They are extolled by the loving CHristians and actively promoted by those who claim a social conscience as evidence of citizen responsibility.

    Duncan Smith is a self avowed "Religious conservative" and like all religious conservatives, views the 'losers' with pity. And as David Hume long ago pointed out, pity is the same as contempt. The poor are worthy of help as long as they show the prerequisite thankful gratitude.

    Therefore the poor (who are losers of their own volition) must be persuaded to mend their ways otherwise it is justifiable that they are coerced. This religious moralist code however is paradoxical. The policy emanates from a moralistic framework of pity and justified coercion. However, forcing someone to be 'moralistic' means they cannot be moral, morality comes from a self imposed ethical framework.

    The morality being imposed in this instance is the morality of privileged politicians who have never known what it is like to live in the real world. Compassion or "that could be me in that position" is entirely lacking.

    It's the same with the 'Nudge' unit, making people 'make better decisions' via someone elses moral framework- in this case rich millionaires who are completely out of touch with reality's moral framework.

    Or in other words, Ian Duncan Smith is a skin crawling fucking twat- funnily enough a conclusion I came to after the briefest reflection of my own moral framework.

  25. @13thDuke:

    Talking of despicable twats...


  26. Swift - read another shocking response to that incident yesterday from some other US lunatic (journo), Schussel or someone? Cant remember the exact words but something along the lines of "serves her right".

    Ah, found it -


    Loonwatch - fitting.

  27. Hello, all.

    I've decided to do my bit for the Pig Society. I'm going to become a traffic warden. I'm going to find illegally parked cars and stand next to them until the owners come back.

    Then, just as they start to protest, I'm going to say, "nah, you're okay, no ticket, I was just standing here to stop any other twat from giving you a ticket."

    Saves them at least £80 each time. Money they can spend on what they want to, rather than giving it to a parasitic private firm.

    I may only last a day in the job, two at most, but hey, I'm giving something back to society.

    For the next job I'll need to learn how to do an impression of the "beep" you hear when your Tesco shopping is being totted up. A free shop for all, what could be more community spirited?

    Okay, that last one's a bit illegal and would get me arrested, but there must be more ideas out there? I'm looking for ways to be completely incompetent at a job and help people out... if only the council would let me be a housing benefits claims assessor...

  28. "I've decided to do my bit for the Pig Society."

    Its time to show them the pigs already? They havent even been in office a year!

  29. Swifty,

    classy guy. Twitter is an online phenomenon that's left me on the shore so it amazes me how many people willingly spake there branes on this medium with no regard for the fact anyone can read it.

  30. The self important/self obsessed arec balrin writes in response to a posters genuine suggestion for a thread about cancer and possible alleviation for the disease which include cannibis 'Oh quakery and the usaul pseudo-science talking points,if you want to smoke cannibis,just do it,dont pretend it relieves specific ailments,especially cancer', he then goes on to point out Farrah Fawcetts 'painful' 'embarrasing' death was due to crank therapies,'whats an 'embarassing death' for goodness sake??. the self obsessed arec may have 'basic science literacy', He certainly has no knowledge of people with cancer or other diseases. My partner had testicular cancer at the age of 27, 12 years ago, he was violanty sick from the chemotheraphy, smoking weed was the only thing that allievated the sickness, I also worked for someone with MS, and smoking weed helped his symptons too, he felt better, also alternative therapies when combined with conventional medicine and a nutrional diet(not something you get in a hospital) can only assist a person,not harm them,this arec has no bloody idea what he is talking about, if I wasnt banned from commenting on CIf(very unfairly in my opinion) Id take hime to task.Also in Israel treating people with cannibis has proved very succesful, im not sure how the whole thing works,but it seems they take out the bit that makes you high(for legal reasons) but it still works and anything that bring relief in anyway,shape or form for pain and sickness, should be looked into, of course, the pharmacutical companies wouldnt profit much from it.

  31. smtx - to be fair, he was arguing against the idea that weed can *cure* cancer, as opposed to relieving symptoms.

  32. Leni- know exactly what you mean. I daren't think about it too much - I'd trash my flat in a fit of helpless rage.

    This is a dangerous feeling as it stops you from doing anything useful.

    On our own we can do nothing.

    met my local Labour candidate for the council today. Nice woman - used to be on a board of governors with her.

    Think I have to start going to LP meetings - perhaps a motion on the situation this govt is placing people in recalling the reason for the existance of the LP and demanding that the leadership of the party start defending the working class.

    It will educate some and the motin if passed could at least make eddie boy realise he has not got it all his way. His attitude makes me angrier than the Tories - because its betrayal.

    Out forefathers and foremothers did NOT found the LP so it could co-operate with the destruction of poor people's hope and even their very lives.

    I know you think I'd be wasting my time but there are some good types in my ward LP- they need waking up.

  33. smtx, I've admired arec balrin, but I will look at his post with a critical mind, which thread?

  34. smtx

    Sorry to hear about your partner - hope he is well now. Cannabis seems to be good for a myriad of things. My Dad had glaucoma and he had cannabis drops for that I believe. I just wish there was more research into its useful properties but drug paranoia gets in the way.

    Can't comment on Arecs remarks as I haven't read them - although when I did he seemed to be one of the more interesting (and funny) posters. It might be his Autism that makes him sound a bit terse at times.

  35. Good piece from Rolling Stone

    Why Isn't Wall Street in Jail?

    The mental stumbling block, for most Americans, is that financial crimes don't feel real; you don't see the culprits waving guns in liquor stores or dragging coeds into bushes. But these frauds are worse than common robberies.

    They're crimes of intellectual choice, made by people who are already rich and who have every conceivable social advantage, acting on a simple, cynical calculation: Let's steal whatever we can, then dare the victims to find the juice to reclaim their money through a captive bureaucracy. They're attacking the very definition of property — which, after all, depends in part on a legal system that defends everyone's claims of ownership equally. When that definition becomes tenuous or conditional — when the state simply gives up on the notion of justice — this whole American Dream thing recedes even further from reality.

  36. @thamauge, to be fair he wrote 'Dont pretend it relieves specific ailments'.

  37. thauma

    Have been spam binned - could you dig it out for me. Ta

  38. smtx - well, that's a bit ambiguous. There is plenty of evidence that it relieves symptoms, but none that I am aware of that it cures ailments, so if he meant that it doesn't relieve symptoms ... science is not on his side.

  39. Sick leave-or rather paid sick leave- is to be reviewed as part of the ConDem's Welfare Reform.Prompted it would seem from their 'concern' at the amount of sick leave taken in the public sector.I think we all know where this is going! You can read about it HERE

    @Hope all went well today Spike.

  40. smtx - also, the poster he was arguing against was clearly asserting that cannabis cures all cancers!

    Sheff - done.

  41. Paul - hmph - it won't be an issue once they've sub-contracted all the work out to agencies.

    Also found 3 of your posts in spam bin, one from last night!

  42. smtx - my understanding is that there is already at least one pharma drug which utilises the active ingredients in cannabis that can now be prescribed on the NHS Cannabis Equivalents on NHS

    I think there are other drugs too - my sometime (wife) was prescribed, what was described by her Consultant as, a cannabis modelled tablet for pain relief from arthritis.......

  43. Regarding your (recently freed) article about US concerns in Egypt, apparently they're pretty worried about Bahrain too as it is their naval base in the Gulf area.

  44. Thauma

    Meanwhile, the U. S. Fifth Fleet has a berth in Bahrain. Vice Admiral Mark Fox must be powering up the EA-6B Prowlers for emergency action.

    The Long Arab Revolution

  45. Cheers Thauma

    Things really are hotting up in the middle east.Plus history shows us that when governments are unpopular at home they're more inclined to pick fights abroad in the hope of galvanizing domestic public opinion..Really hope the USA and UK leave well alone but somehow i doubt they will if they don't like what's happening.

  46. Good piece from the electronic intifada

    The moderate obstacle

    Martin Luther King, Jr wrote in his much-lauded 1963 Letter from Birmingham jail that the greatest obstacle to a movement for equality was not the extremist but the white moderate:

    "I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to 'order' than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice ..." King criticized the moderates' opposition to direct action and their advice to wait until the environment became more suitable.

  47. Interesting article, Sheff - still working my way down it! (The Long Revolution one.)

    The King quote is appropriate; others have pointed out how Thatcher's cunning plan to sell off council housing has created a large number of people who don't want any serious waves but who otherwise might have done.

    People who are worried about losing their job and their house (and I include myself in that before anyone starts) are far less likely to protest on others' behalf.

    I strongly suspect some of my curtain-twitching neighbours are far more worried about people leaving their unsightly bins out a little longer than the allotted time than they are about social justice. Because they're all right Jack, and who cares about a few darkies/cripples/loonies/feckless poor who shouldn't be allowed anyway?

  48. You should hear some of my colleagues at work Thauma. Redundancies can now be seen on the horizon and the fear is palpable. But there still seems to be little fighting spirit amongst the majority, just an awful, gloomy resignation - the union meetings are always the usual suspects. What is wrong with people! Its depressing really.

  49. Some of the posters on the "suicide threats" disabled thread are seriously pissing me off. As are the stories from people who have had to deal with the horrendous system so far - before it's even got to its coming maximum cruelty.

    It's seriously depressing to think that these fucking callous bastards share a single strand of DNA with a normal human being.

  50. Thaum I think you are right - Just how bad has it got to get before people realise that the victims of this government are ordinary people like you and me.

    I am beginning to think that the age demographic has something to do with it.

    After all the age demographic in the ME is dominated by young people, ours is dominated by old gits like me!

    In the 60's the age profile was younger, the post war generation experienced a boom but still rebelled against the stiffling morality of the time - some good came of it we don't marginalise people for being 'illegitemate' any more and many people raise families 'without benefit of clergy'. We don't call unmarried single mums 'unmarried mothers' any more(or hide their 'shame' in special homes or even mental asylums) and we don't call their children bastards. Homosexuality is legal.

    Perhaps as more and more young people are consigned to the rubbish heap we will see some movement? Too many of the rest of us are too comfortable.

    In a word many of us have been bought.

    But with public service wages frozen and inflation rising even that may change.

  51. Anne - everyone who's not in the top 5% or so is a victim of these over-privileged twats. The poorest are being hit first and hardest, of course, but once they've been squeezed completely dry it will move up.

    For now, pensioners are being kept reasonably happy as they are a reliable Tory vote. But soon they will be scroungers too.

    Bus service cuts and library closures are two things off the top of my head that many pensioners will object to - but the eejits in the government won't have realised this as public transport and public libraries are things they never use.

  52. Just watching 'Lord Fraud' on CH4....sickening

  53. Lord Freud on C4 news re the welfare bill - what a wanker! didn't seem to have a clue - especially about child care....where did they dig him up from?

  54. @thaum The poorest are being hit first and hardest, of course, but once they've been squeezed completely dry it will move up.

    When will they move onto those scroungers at the end of the Mall?

  55. Snap Ian. couldn't believe it! - is he really the best they can find on a critical day like this - when the welfare bill is presented! jesus wept!!

  56. @Sheff where did they dig him up from? Well the New Labour folk found him of course!

  57. Ian - you've just confused me twice as a) I don't have a telly and b) I am not a Londerner so not really sure about 'the end of the Mall'. ;-)

  58. Hi thaum, sorry if I made those assumptions. You are probably better off a) without a telly and b) not knowing London(went down today as it happens). Her Royal Highness, Queen Elizabeth II resides at the end of The Mall. And what's worse, far worse is I actually work for her! (Well, strictly speaking her government but her mug shot is in every building).

  59. Ian - aha!

    (I expect I really should have known who lives at the end of the Mall and it's a deficiency in my education.)

  60. Been deleted off the disability thread for saying "just fuck off" to the following statement:

    sartrecastic - Of course they should get professional help for the likes of depression/clinical depression, getting put on long term disability payment seems to not be the right to go about it though.

    Although it is easier to be self centred and feel sorry for yourself instead of working.

    And also would like to double-post this little gem for any Sean Connery fans: Why women deserve to be slapped.

  61. Should point out that above post was made by Mark222 *to* sartrecastic, in case there's any doubt.

  62. Evening all. The specialist had been called away early, so no news today. I have to phone her in the morning.

    So the coalition suddenly realised in horror that they'd actually provoked a reaction from Middle England on the forest sell-off and back-pedalled furiously.

    Now if only the disabled and long-term unemployed were trees or donkeys or something.

  63. Spike - the wait for info can't be enjoyable. Have a glass on me.

    Yep - I like to hear a government minister say 'we were wrong', and wish we'd hear it more often, but in this case they discovered they'd pissed off their own base.

    There is nothing wrong with being wrong if you can admit it.

  64. Now if only the disabled and long-term unemployed were trees or donkeys or something.

    Indeed Spike!

    good luck in the morning bth.

  65. thaumaurge - i honestly had no idea where to even start with that comment so i just ignored it. the article and the whole thread have been really infuriating

    - sartrecastic.

  66. Vince Cable is to be on QT later - can I watch him without throwing things ?

    Bahrein - people being murdered in the streets.

  67. thauma

    Not looking for a fight but there are also women who think it's ok for them to cite provocation for slapping men.

    Surely in an equal society it's unacceptable for either men or women to be violent.And if a woman does slap a man first and he slaps her back then provided his slap isn't disproportionate to her slap i don't really see how she can complain about it.Plus if the woman is the one to slap first then she's the one introducing violence into the relationship.And as we know violence can escalate over time with tragic consequences.

    And before anyone jumps on me i do know that women are more likely to come off worse in any violent confrontation they have with a man.But that doesn't negate their responsibility to refrain from violence as well.

    I don't like Sean Connery's attitude to slapping women but then i also don't like women who have similar attitudes to slapping men.

  68. @ PAUL I agree with you re women(some women) dishing it out but unabale to take it, ive seen women stick a stiletto in a blokes temple,over a fairlt minlr row, seen someone throw a bottle in someone face, and then get upset when someone retaliates, i learnt quite young that you need to fight fair(if ur gonna do that stuff)

  69. Women! Violent buggers aren't they? I can't go out at night without fear of being assaulted by one.

    Honestly, the risk I run just because I dress well...

  70. Habib

    You can be a right sarky bastard sometimes!

  71. Hey Paul, how are you doing? I'll call you out if I think you're wrong, you know that.

  72. Habib

    I have no problem with you disagreeing with me.Trouble is your sarky comment indicated to me that you hadn't read my post properly!

  73. @habib, out of interst, how do you think paul is wrong?

  74. On the contrary, Paul, I understand entirely what your saying - if you cant take it, don't give it out.

    It's the idea that anyone can judge the level of pain felt and mete it out in equal proportion that bothers me.

    Man or woman.

  75. @ habib, im struggling to see how what u have just said, answers the points paul raised re violant female attack.

  76. @Heyhabib:

    "Hey Paul, how are you doing? I'll call you out if I think you're wrong, you know that."

    What's wrong with Paul's arguement that violence is unacceptable whether it's male on female or female on male?

  77. smtx01, it doesn't, wasn't intended to. Just hoped to shine a different light on "she slapped me first". Which is always a stupid defence. Any five year old could tell you that.

  78. Chekhov, there was also this:
    "And if a woman does slap a man first and he slaps her back then provided his slap isn't disproportionate to her slap i don't really see how she can complain about it".

    Which contradicts the first assertion.

  79. @ habib, not going with the 'she slapped me first' scenario, more like she lobbed a bottle in someones face, or she stubbed a fag out in someones face(for a larf) that kinda thing

  80. @habib, not as a reaction, as an introduction

  81. Nice people you know, smtx01.

  82. @ habib, yea well thats north london for ya

  83. BTW: since Larry the cat has been installed in No 10 can we be assured that the rats will be either eaten or chased out of the door?
    The rats being the coalition of course!

  84. Habib

    Chekhov, there was also this:
    "And if a woman does slap a man first and he slaps her back then provided his slap isn't disproportionate to her slap i don't really see how she can complain about it".

    Which contradicts the first assertion.

    Now you really are taking the piss.I stated that it was wrong for either a man or woman to cite provocation for slapping someone.However if some women think it's ok for women to slap men than those women can't complain if they're slapped back provided the slap they received is not disproportionate to the slap they dished out.

  85. @Heyhabib; I'm not understanding your logic. Sorry about that but if you would care to explain your point I might have a chance to engage with it.

  86. Okay, Paul, I'm sure the men involved can judge the strength of slap to give back.

    chekhov, do you know when it's right to hit someone?

  87. BTW: this referendum on the AV vote is another sham since it kicked PR into the long grass. PR is no longer on the agenda and it deserves a place at the debating table.
    AV won't change fuck all other than giving the electorate the idea that their votes might make any difference.

    It will no doubt be voted through as a triumph for "democracy" when in actual fact it's just another victory for the kleptocrats.

    Here's a quote from the film "Clockwise" and the Headmaster played by John Cleese:

    "It's not the despair, I can cope with the despair, it's the hope.........."

  88. chekhov

    Tend to agree with that.AV has the potential to increase the time it takes to get the final result in marginal seats but the end result will be the same.Namely in almost every seat the electorate will not be represented by their first choice.And bearing in mind it's a two horse race in most constituency/ward elections i really don't see the point of AV.It's nothing more than froth.Until we have PR we'll never be a truly democratic society.

  89. @Heyhabib;

    "chekhov, do you know when it's right to hit someone?"

    I've never hit anyone in my life but some people have hit me; not many; I could count them on one hand. One of them was a woman but I didn't retaliate with equivalent physical violence just a more selective philosophical point of view!

  90. Aye chekhov, me too and there's it.

  91. Habib

    Okay, Paul, I'm sure the men involved can judge the strength of slap to give back.

    Just picked up on your above post.There's clearly no point discussing this with you if the best you can do is come up with snide comments rather than engaging in debate.I'm still unclear what your point is.If indeed you had a point in the first place.

  92. Paul, snide?
    My point was that a man a can't slap a woman, even if he feels "justified".

  93. Any more than a man can slap another man.

  94. Paul we've been friends for a while, please don't go down the "there's no point" road, unless that's all I'm worth.

  95. You're right Habib- a man can't slap a women.But neither can a woman slap a man.And if a woman cites provocation for slapping a man then she's no different than Sean Connery citing provocation for slapping a woman.

    The point that i'm clearly not getting across to you,or you just don't want to hear it,is that if a woman feels justified in citing provocation for slapping a man and he slaps her back then provided he hasn't drawn blood,broken any bones or caused any bruising there's nothing she can do about it.She's not a victim because she started it and his slap was not dispropotionate to her slap.So no court in the land would convicct him for assault.And we're also assuming her slap didn't leave any marks on him.Violence is violence and it's unacceptable whether it comes from a man or a woman.

  96. Don't be daft Habib.We're having a disagreement.We're still mates albeit of the cyber variety.:-)

  97. Habib

    I've got to sign off for a while.Let's just agree to disagree.No hard feelings eh! I guess we just communicate in different ways.I still think you're a sound bloke and wouldn't want to fall out with you.


  98. Paul, good to hear, pal.

    Got to tell you, this sounds very familiar:
    "he hasn't drawn blood,broken any bones or caused any bruising there's nothing she can do about it."

    I guess my opinion on this subject is very coloured by my experience, brings out the anger sometimes, hope you'll forgive me.