10 February 2011


Beware the flatterer: he feeds you with an empty spoon.
-Cosino DeGregrio


  1. ..............ANNOUNCEMENT

    Unless someone gives me a really good reason not to, I plan on installing the Intense Debates commenting system here Sunday night. I got my "issue" worked out, thanks to a lovely "Happiness Engineer" named Jim. The fact that when you do have a problem with ID, you can submit a question and an actual human being who is an actual employee of ID will give you an actual response and actually work with you to resolve your issue is a huge plus for ID, to my mind.

    Then, when I looked at UT2 tonight, I discovered that cellarman has been reading but is unable to comment here for reasons unknown to both of us. I know that one of Monkeyfish's extended absences was because he quite simply didn't get a comment box appearing for him. I believe that a couple of other people have experienced that, as well.

    Add to that the continuing nuisance of the spam folder and it makes me feel that installing ID is the way to go here.

    So, be forewarned. If you think that there's a possibility that you might have strong feelings against the ID system, please look at the experiment thread and play around with it a bit.

    One small thing is that I don't seem to be able to get rid of the "reply" option over there, even though I've deselected the "allow threaded discussions" option, but I think we can all either learn to ignore it or live with it. (I did manage to turn it from a big, honking brown button to a smallish linky word.)

    Make any strong feelings known to me, either here or via e-mail.


    Oh, and:

    Admins will all also be made admins of the new system, so they will still be able to do everything they do now.

  2. Intense Debates looks good and the extra HTML features will be welcome to those who like to quote others :).

    Also I think CiF are using Moderation/Blacklisting with a vengeance. See next post.

  3. Anyone who's been following the excellent thread following the equally excellent article by Jonathan Dean may have noticed that Reikval, who you quite rightly identified as me, was quite active, as I have been for a couple of weeks.

    Then after posting the following in response to Ally Fogg's earlier post - the hand of the moderator descended and Reikval was no more.

    AllyF posted:

    Radical feminism is very specifically a theory which accords genders a class dynamic, in a model transposed from Marxism, whereby the genders are inevitably and (at least until the completion of the feminist revolution) thrust into conflict with each other. So while it is not true to say that a radical feminist necessarily hates men, it is true to say that she sees men as the enemy in a gender war, and that includes pro-feminist men.

    To which my response was a quite reasonable:

    "And one of the reasons it came into being was because those men in the socialist movement who considered themselves to be the leaders of the class struggle, refused to recognise the genuine grievances of their female comrades and insisted that they and their demands wait until after the class struggle had been won.

    "However it might also be worth making the comparison with the struggle of black people for equal rights in the USA and South Africa, to name but two places, where whatever their committment to the struggle, white men and women, or at least the most intelligent and sensitive of them, recognised that they always had a more privileged position and would be treated differently to blacks, and accepted that for some, until the struggle was won, they would always be part of the enemy."

    Interestingly a poster, Hoff1000, who's clearly an innocent abroad as far as these matters are concerned protested about my deletion pointing out that I had been neither abusive or off topic and railed sufficently against the mods to get his own posts deleted. Then he was allowed to keep the following about another banned poster jocelynjackesien:

    See? Now you took down jocelynjackesien

    Sure she used the C-word. But haven't we all? One memorable recent blog contained about 100 gazillion instances of it, most entirely gratuitous, but used gleefully once posters discovered they could.

    We are such children!

    Still, it reinforces my argument about transparency.

    If Not Now, When? (Although that also relates to an entirely different dicussion).

    I think Hoff1000 had better watch his step.

  4. Spike

    Sorry to hear about your health problems and if your specialist says you should have been in hospital over Xmas and isn't calling you in now, does that mean the worst is over - if indeed you know what the problem is given that you've another CAT scan booked.

    As to your response to my last, I've read the Wiki link you posted and agree there's lots of interesting apparent anomalies, but for me the biggest one is that on 14 August 2009, Megrahi withdrew his appeal when so many were saying there'd been a miscarriage of justice.

    Now if he was innocent and knew nothing about the bombing, why was Ghaddafi prepared to accept responsibility for Lockerbie and pay out all that money to the bereaved families, just to get Megrahi back in Libya to live a life of luxury with his family, away from anywhere he might be prepared to tell more than he's already told? To me it doesn't make sense, after all Ghaddify is not known for his generosity towards his fellow citizens.

  5. @MW:

    Weird. Couple of oddities about the way ID works, seemingly, which are now barring me from commenting over there.

    It doesn't seem to "remember" user IDs (I had to type my name and email both times I put a comment up just now despite being logged in here)... and now (having managed to post a couple of "Hello world"-type messages), I'm damned if I can work out how to get back in, or even how to show the comments. There's no clicking the headline, and it doesn't show the comments, just your initial explanation.

    Anyway, not a big deal, life is change etc, and at least you'll be rid of the Spamosaurus.

  6. Does 'intense debate’ mean our comments have to be burning, all consuming, fervent and vehement AT ALL TIMES??!!??

  7. Sorry to hear your health news Spike and hugs to La Rit over the loss of Chester, losing a pet is a miserable thing.

    After yesterdays conversation I signed up to Twitter, I have been wanting to for a while but needed that little push, can someone please follow me so I am not totally alone out there, twitter name is Jennifera300 (someone was already using Jennifera30, how bizarre).

    Hints on interesting people to follow will be greatfully received, not Bidisha though. ;)

  8. Morning all,

    Feeling a bit brighter today :)Just had to get over the shock of having the power of life and death over another living being, especially one who was a dear to me as my cat, even though he was clearly dying, I felt like a murderer for having had him put top sleep. It completely floored me.

    Anyway, on a lighter note.....

    I'm happy to go with the flow of changes, although this is more to do with my technophobia/if it works I'm happy.... kind of thing.

    I will however, not be lazy and go and check it out Monatana :)

  9. It’s just me, I know, but there are some things I’m just too damn old for, frankly – Facebook, going to nightclubs, and Twitter.

  10. Shiloh

    I am not sure but I think you are one of the younger types on here, aren't you?

    Never saw the point of facebook, for myself anyway, it does make sense for those who have far flung families and friends, and nightclubs have never really been my thing but Twitter looks quite fun.

  11. Thanks Jen... miserable is what it is :(

    Duke....like the shouting!

  12. @jennifer:

    I’ve got no interest in it.

  13. Shiloh

    Ok, I won't force you to join then. ;)

  14. LaRit - sorry that I overlooked the news of Sir Chester last night. I hope, one day down the road, you come across another feline friend who will benefit from a relationship and warmly stimulate fond memories of Sir C.

    The news about my new dog is encouraging, but we plainly have a way to go. She wagged her tail (a tiny little bit) this morning for the first time.

    Sadly she remains very frightened of her own shadow and lots of other things. I'm sure we'll eventually get there with lots of patience and the illuminating example of King of Cool Mungo.

    Good to see you again Jen

    laters all double dog walking calls.

  15. spike

    sorry to hear about your probs...take it easy....

  16. Rather a good article by Julie Burchill in today's Independent

    It's interesting to observe how the same sort of political activists who once sneered at the sexual chastity of the white working class now defend the medievalism of Islamist morality by claiming that the young fundamentalists have been "provoked" by the licentiousness of young proletarian women.

    Misogyny is the cultural coin that draws groups together whatever their differences; the brotherhood of man bonding over the broken bodies of women.

    On humour believe it or not. Which reminds me:

    Some of the comments on here about Laurie Penny could easily grace the pages of the most virulent male chauvinist, misogynist websites. I'm sure you think you're all very funny and clever and equally Ms Penny considers herself someone about whom everyone should be interested, but I'm surprised at the virulence hidden behind the humour.

  17. Thanks again, everyone.


    Al-Megrahi was informed (as is the general case, I believe) that he couldn't be considered for compassionate release while he was appealing against sentence. So there's nothing surprising about his ending his appeal - he was rightly hoping to be released if he did so.

    Libya's case can be viewed in a similar way: admit responsibility and pay up and we'll end sanctions.


    I'm not fan of the Ghadafi regime, but I think that al-Megrahi's conviction was very unsafe, which also means that those responsible for the bombing may still be out there unconvicted.

  18. Spike

    Sorry to read the news about your health. Keep bashing away at them and ask questions.

    La Rit

    Sorry for your sad news as well. A good long life, though.


    Can we simply rename the ConDem regime The Shitdribblers?

    They have obviously decided to begin their term in the moral cesspit in case they don't last long enough to get there by the usual means.


    William Hague 'lobbied strongly' for oil companies run by Tory donors

    William Hague personally intervened in a dispute involving two oil companies headed by Conservative Party donors who were refusing to pay tax to one of the world’s poorest countries, documents obtained by The Daily Telegraph have disclosed.

    The Foreign Secretary and another Conservative minister “lobbied strongly” on behalf of Tullow Oil who were embroiled in a dispute over a £175 million unpaid tax bill in Uganda.

    Mr Hague personally telephoned the country’s President and the issue was given a high priority within the Foreign Office, the documents reveal.

    Last month, Tullow Oil announced it would not now have to pay the tax bill and is about to begin extracting millions of barrels of oil in Uganda.

    The dispute arose after Heritage Oil sold assets in Uganda to Tullow Oil last year for $1.4billion (£870million).

    The Ugandan government said that Heritage Oil owed £250million in capital gains tax. Heritage paid £75million, but around £175million remains under dispute. Heritage is registered in Jersey - a tax haven.


    Hague can be an articulate and witty performer in the Commons.

    Which does not mean he is not a complete and utter cunt.

  19. @Atomboy:

    Christ, £175 million in unpaid CGT to Uganda? Just think how many gays they could kill with that!

  20. @AB

    Wouldn't calling them the Shitdribblers be rather coprophagist?

  21. Spike,
    Best wishes, hope you get better soon.

    Dutch news.

    Peroxided racist fuckwitted buffoon Geert Wilders has launched the PVV’s latest initiative wheeze- “trash towns”. In these “trash towns” to be built on the outskirts of every town and city, anti-social families will be housed in “self -contained units”. He doesn’t clarify what “self -contained units” actually are, but I daresay he’d be happy with locked cargo containers with a few slit holes for air.

    Even better, if an underage child is causing the anti-social behavior, the whole family will have to move to a self -contained unit. Geertje says that the trash towns will allow the authorities (and I directly quote): “To put all the scum together”.

    I do hope the first residents of the “trash towns” will be the 25% of PVV MP’s who have criminal convictions including assault, domestic violence and yes, anti-social behavior such as threatening to kill neighbours.

  22. Morning all.

    Spike, all the best!!

    Re UT migration, may I suggest the Caribbean, which I hear is lovely this time of year*!?

    No, but seriously folks, could we make a gentle...erm..persons agreement not to use the 'reply' feature, which, let's be honest, sucks (nadazzled) balls!?

    *(electricity permitting), I'm here all week....

  23. duke

    wilders is a nasty man indeed.....but i raise you the mayor of rome and interior minister maroni......

    the latest proposal here after 4 rom children died in a fire in their plastic tent is to take, according to the ex fascist mayor of rome, Rom children away from their families because they don't look after them...of course the state bears no responsibility in their death and the minister of the interior has told the region to fuck of when they asked for more funds to do something about the situation.....

  24. gandolfo,

    we could invent a new game- swivel-eyed europolitician top trumps.

    I'm sure medve could mention a few Hungarian corkers and of course our French contingent. Just need to think of the categories now.

  25. Egypt? Tunisia? Torres to Chelsea? Sod all that. When's the epoch-making announcement of a new CiF widget? I'm betting on smilies. Smilies are useful when you're discussing geopolitics and deficit reduction. :-P

  26. sounds good duke.......i reckon i've got a few aces up me arm here

    categories......mmmmm have a think on that........

  27. Gandolfo/Duke,

    How terribly Eurocentric of you!!

    Imperialist peeegs!!

  28. @13thDuke/Gandolfo

    Proper old rogues’ gallery here...


    Dunno how current it is, though.

  29. I've just been reading the waddya thread - does anybody here bother any more? What the fuck is going on? Apart from the usual bores wasting time and space, there's a couple of new fuckwits who are posting 50/60 times a day. Is this some sort of false flag operation mounted by subversives determined to bring down the whole creaking edifice? If so, they're doing a great job.

    So three cheers for MyHero and SuperIrons - the final, painfully unfunny nails in the coffin of banality that was YouTellUs.

    RIP waddya. A relatively short life, but an undeniably tedious and pointless one.

  30. Slightly edited cross-posting from UT2:

    Yes, as I understand it, you have to get either an Intense Debate, WordPress or OpenID in order to be remembered every time you post a comment. Otherwise, it's entering the name and e-mail every time.

    Odd that Swifty can't see the comments now, though. I'd changed the settings so that they should appear below the post without having to click on it's title.

    (addendum: actually, that is only true if you click on the link in the "Currently on UT2" box. If you just go to UT2, you still click on the headline/title. Both ways are working for me. At a loss as to why they wouldn't be for Swifty.)


    I'm sure that, if I knew enough about customising CSS, I'd be able to make the "reply" thing paler/white. I'm just not quite that talented.

  31. @scherf:

    I don’t – not since I resigned the CiF commission, at any rate. I don’t even “occasionally look” or “happen once in a while to glance” at it, to be honest. Much like Twitter, I have no interest in it.

    I know, I’m a miserable sod. But a happy one.

    How are you anyway mate – life treating you well?

  32. @MW:

    Cheers, I've just had a look and, as before, can't see any comments, can't click on anything, and can't figure out what I did right the first time that I can't seem to get right now...

    No worries though, I'm sure I'll figure it out eventually. Failing that, of course, I can always get my 7 yr old to sort it out for me...

  33. Yep Scherf, in Private Eye-speak, it's been brought down by an attack of the Mike Gigglers. Perhaps MyHero & SuperIrons are mod interns, who've been told to destroy what little of interest remains by posting non-stop banality (although that still doesn't explain BrusselSexsprout, EnglishKermit or MostlyInActive).

    Now they have to launch that separate chat thread. Thank God for that, otherwise they'd just end up making unnecessary changes to the near-perfect moderation system.

  34. Scherfig,

    that is exactly what I was thinking re: WADYYA. I could actually feel my brain cells rotting as I scrolled through the last couple of days which made me think those two posters are up to something.

    Swifty, your link isn't working.

  35. Hi, swifty. Vale of tears and all that, but mustn't grumble, worse things happen at sea, etc etc.
    Hope you're well and haven't yet succumbed to the blatant, rampant sexism that is endemic in the big Sky corporation (and which I believe is personally endorsed and encouraged by Lord Rupert himself.)

  36. @Montana

    I think I've found where you could change it - but it's only a minor thing, not worth fiddling with unless you're curious.

  37. Re WADYYA, hang on, haven't seen monkeyfish for a while....

  38. Hi Duke, Eddie. It's a bit of a conspiracy theory, I know, but somehow it seems plausible. The fatal flaw is probably that I get the impression these sad punters think they are entertaining and that's why they do it.

    They'll be devastated if they shut the fucking thing down :0(

  39. @scherf:

    Phwoarr! It’s all double entendres, risqué comments, flirty banter, casual sexism, and potty-mouthed filth over here, day in, day out.

    And the blokes are almost as bad!

  40. Sounds rough, swifty. You should seriously consider moving to TalkRadio.

  41. It was when I was reading the Waddya punfests, and realized I had a gun in my mouth, that I decided it was time to walk away from the computer. Twitter is like a Socratic dialogue by comparison.

  42. Hello everyone; well it looks like Jezzabella's plan to give the kiss of life to Dribly has been quietly dropped.
    Can't for the life of me wonder why!

  43. @scherf:

    I’ve got broad shoulders mate, and fairly catholic tastes, but TalkSport? Christ. I’d be in danger of growing an extra cock, the amount of testosterone bouncing around over there.

    Obviously, I’m much more comfortable down the “19th hole” of the local golf course, chit-chatting with Geoff from Accounts (reg. plate GE0 FFS – crazy reg. plate, crazy guy!) about the shaggability of Magda the lovely new barmaid from “points East”. Or rather, I would be, if it hadn’t been for the small and regrettable matter of the club spoons...

  44. Magda the lovely new barmaid from “points East”

    what a coincidence - I've a good friend called Magda, but she's 68 and from the Faroe Islands. Perhaps they're related? Most furriners are.

  45. @MW:

    Thanks but no, it just takes me to the page. There’s no ability to comment, and the headline is “un-clickable”, if that’s a word.

    But seriously, don’t worry about it, I’ll catch up eventually.


    Yeah, I’m pretty sure it’s her sister, actually. All foreign women from north of the Med are called “Magda”, I believe. Apart from “Olga”, who I think comes from the Volga?

  46. My friend Inga from Sweden is unheppy with your casual racism.

  47. @Jennifer:

    What about the casual sexism? She can’t be happy with that either, surely?

  48. I am unheppy with the casual and racist mispelling of inhoppy.
    (and so is magda)

  49. Inga does not mind casual sexism, in fact she is rather in favour of it, she objects to unheppy being spelled as inhoppy.

    She is a rum one is Inga. ;)

  50. @scherf:

    I thought it was an attempt at a phonetic rendering.

    Mind you, Magda (at the golf club) would say something like "arn-kheppy".

    Pesky voiceless glottal fricatives.

  51. Anyone what's good with computers know how I can transfer/use the ID I use for here on t'intense thing?

  52. james

    no chance matey....i couldn't manage that for some reason.......it was for me traumatic.... being luddite and all......

  53. "Anyone fancy a bloodfest?"

    Beyond belief, Thaum, how could they let him write this? One of the most deluded things I've seen in years...

    That little parasite from the Adam Smith institute is spouting his usual shite as well.

    Good work CIF.

  54. @James: I usually try and find some one around the age of ten to help when confronted with poota probs!

  55. I'm OK now, Gandolfo.

    Turns out I'd signed up for an account at some point anyways ("your e-mail already exists in our database, fuckwit!").

    And, before anybody points it out, I'm choosing to ignore the whole 'somebody who signs up for so many things on the Internet that he forgets ever having done so should probably turn off the computer and go outside to meet real, live, actual people, with faces and that' thing, thank you very much!!

  56. Yeah, Chekhov, as a rule it's not a bad plan!!

    Last time I let an 11 year old near my computer though, it ended up being an electronic shrine/gateway to the world of Justin Beiber and someone called Miley Cyrus.....

  57. james

    so i see....*disapprovingly glances* i had that "email on database" stuff but didn't seem to accept me........now i've got to put up with a bloody blue W shoved up me vajazzel

  58. .....which was annoying at the time, but is potentially going to be quite embarrasing/problematic/potentially incriminating should I ever need to take the computer to PC world for repairs and that!!

    Bloody kidz!!

  59. Gando,

    if you tried to sign up for IntenseDebate, and they said your e-mail was already on file, if you click on 'forgot password' they should send a new one to that e-mail.

    Don't suppose it'd make much difference, other than in a vajazzle-sans-'W' kind of way, obviously!!

  60. Right, sorry to be the one to piss on everybody's chips, but I may have encountered a problem.

    Now we're on the second page (after 50 comments), everytime I refresh, I get taken back to the top of page one. Now, I know we're all busy, jet-setting go-getters in these parts, so those extra few minutes could end up costing some of us quite dearly, I reckon!!

    NB- it could, as always, just be my bag-of-shite iPod though!!

  61. La Rit, I'm so sorry to hear about your cat. It is an awful shock, somehow, even when you know it's coming. Something very final, very absolute, about taking them into the vet and just watching them die. It's the part of having a pet I find the toughest, making decisions on their behalf in that way.

  62. james

    got that as well...and I don't have an go get'em ipod......!

  63. So it's not just Steve Fucking Jobs' fault then!?

    Any solutions, other than changing the number of comments per page, d'ya reckon? (I'm mainly looking at you here, PeterJ)!!

  64. i know it's a silly question but is there such a thing as auto refresh on intense debate...? that woud be useful for the digitally challenged (i za lookin at youz james)

  65. One step ahead of you there, actually!!

    Just asked the same question on UT2!!

    Give me one minute then post something there, and we can find out!!

  66. I don't know if they're still valid, but I have a Wordpress login and pass from the days of "I see things that never were". Can I log in using those? And if so, how, because the login on Untrusted too only seems to allow for Intense Debate login.

  67. If you click login there should be a wordpress option.

    If not, maybe it was 'create account' that brought it up!!

  68. Just tried to log onto Intense Debate but it won't accept name and password.

    I managed to switch over to Wordpress when we were test driving that a few weeks back.

    Maybe that was just a fluke!

  69. RedMiner

    10 February 2011 4:32PM


    it’s a wonder we’re not all blinded by the light of certain posters haloes isn’t it? It must be grand to be such a champion of the working classes/the disabled - in theory at least. It’s only when they come up against the real thing that the mask slips.

    The real thing? Don't make me laugh; your credibility rests entirely on the claim that you once saw a psychiatrist in 2002. Big deal, I've been seeing psychiatrists most of my life, I just don't try to boost my credibility by mentioning it all the time.

    So to continue playing your infantile game of disability oneupmanship, you'll have to do better Shall we compare medication? perhaps your pal in Antwerp will give us her considered opinion on who's the most balmy. I note how her precious concern for your maligned disabled character doesn't extend to myself. But let's raise the stakes, shall we? Hey, I've been suicidal - been there done that, not that it would make any difference to you and your pal, who seem to operate entirely by guesswork and innuendo.

    So, got any answers to my earlier posts or would you rather continue taking cheap shots at my past, a past you can't have the faintest idea about. I don't think WE disabled people give a fuck where the support comes from, as long as it comes. Why not join some of the online disabled forums and see whether they're interested in whether support is only welcome from other disabled people.

    I'll tell you now, it isn't.

    People are posting their experiences on the Broken of Britain to share with others and publicize the plight of disabled people under successive governments and their changes to welfare law, changes which have resulted in a number of deaths and possibly many more than have gone unreported. This is not some kind of game for you and your crony to score points over nasty lefties, this is the real deal. Those are real people belly up in the ocean of disability denial. It's real suffering, right here, right now, Britain 2011.

    That you and your fangirl want to reduce it to the same puerile vacuous commentary that fills up the rest of waddya, and turn it into a popularity contest and credibility issue, effectively forcing me to reveal past details about my life to counter your invidious comments sickens me, not for myself but for the distraction to the central issue here of opposing these reforms.

    Who is really using the disabled to score points here? Who is it who seems to care about establishing the credibility of others, others who ignored them entirely until they began making personal remarks and accusations. If you don't approve, fine, just stay off my case. It's none of your business what others do or suggest or share here.

    I don't speak for the disabled or anyone but myself. I've got news for you, neither do you, except perhaps for the other poster, whose only purpose on Cif is to pursue her petty grievances and peddle tittle-tattle with all the intellectual impact of a fart in the atmosphere of a gas giant.

  70. This comment has been removed by the author.

  71. Dribbly seems to be at the stage of the toddler who is in the middle of a tantrum, where the tears and snot and mucus form slippery clots at the back of the throat during the hiccuppy, gasping inhalations between the spasms and contortions.

    chekhov says that JezzaBella seems to have given up on whatever mastrerplan she had in mind.

    It's probably wise, as it would be difficult to see that anything could possibly now save Dribbly.

    When Matt Seaton said it was something like a little shining star in the nasty blotchy black soup of the internet firmament, it was pretty obvious that it was a small puddle of diarrhoea best avoided by anyone with any sense.

  72. Waddya

    For this we developed brains and the art of writing ?

    Evolution is going wrong somewhere.

  73. Atoms

    I exclude RedMiner and a couple of other posts from my above.

    Waddya , on the whole , is beyond redemption.

  74. Were I signing upto CiF for the first time and chose waddya as first thread to read I would cancel my account immediately.

  75. Leni

    Yes, I also exclude RedMiner.

    I have wondered why he has chosen to post there. I assumed it was the usual line of thought of bringing things to the attention of a wider audience in the meantime of waiting for appropriate threads.

    It doesn't work.

    As you said, totally beyond redemption and a quite frightening example of the evil of banality.

  76. the RedMiner post was brilliant, the anodyne swill that followed it is something else. Do you think that the Mods have alts and are trying to push WADDYA below the LCD?

  77. Oh, just to clarify on the above quote from RedMiner -

    it’s a wonder we’re not all blinded by the light of certain posters haloes isn’t it? It must be grand to be such a champion of the working classes/the disabled - in theory at least. It’s only when they come up against the real thing that the mask slips.

    The bit in italics was, I think, from the Bruppet, which Helmet then quoted because it had been deleted and his staggering contribution was to add -


    His vegetables would have more chance of flourishing if he simply spread himself over the soil nearby.

  78. timboktutu

    Perhaps, but it will be a waste of effort.

    There are some there who have boundless capabilities to sink ever lower in the shit, even as their egos buoy them up in what they imagine is blue sky thinking.

  79. Atoms

    I have used waddya to suggest articles - get no response of course.

    I might try emailing JessicaR - is it worth the effort ?

    I am starting to think that the idea is to let waddya self implode without doing anything to actively improve it.

    I can't see any way - other than banning most of the regulars - to change it. It has created its own form and 'function' and is busilly entrenching the lowest form of human communication at the apex of wit and originality.

    The 'banter' has become slurry.

  80. Leni/Atomboy

    Great post from Redminer !

    The level of stupidity and ignorance shown towards the sick and disabled by EnglishPelmet and the BrusselsExpress is depressing to put it mildly.And the fact that none of the other waddya regulars are challenging them about their views is reflective of a wider problem of indifference in society at large.

    Because of his own experience of MH problems i naively thought that 'Pelmet' would have a bit more understanding of the feelings of sheer desperation many claimants of disability benefits are currently going through.But whilst a lot of hot is still relentlessly spewing out of his cyber gob on the subject not once has he expressed an opinion which shows he has any realistic grasp of what the sick and disabled are now up against with these Work Capability Assessments.

    The 'Pelmet' has identified himself as being 62 years old and living on a Pension Credit.I make no apology for saying i will experience a real sense of schadenfreude if he unexpectedly loses that and is found to be 'fit for work' on account of him not being 65.

  81. The Intense Debate Experiment 11 won't even open the thread let alone allow logins or comments.

    Any ideas anyone? Preferably in monosyllables!

  82. Sod dribbly, and all who sail in her - history is being made. Major moment of truth arriving in Egypt....seems likely that Mubarak may be stepping down - anxieties about military take over.....all digits crossed for the Egyptian people who are out in force tonight.

  83. BTW: serves the fuckers right. What did they expect after banning all the people with summat useful to contribute?

    "cretins" doesn't do them justice.

  84. Oh and Leni great riposte from you to that braindead heifer lump from Flanders.

  85. Paul

    Bustle and st. Simeon think that waving their members or shaking their breasts is a more worthwhile human activity than supporting people in need.

    Says it all really. Waddya - the great Cloaca of CiF.

  86. Leni

    I can only hope that it is left to become so embarrassingly awful that even the mighty Ms Handbag sees that it is damaging whatever the remaining reputation of The Guardian may amount to, as it still tries to pretend that it is a serious news commenting site.

    I also have to say, though, that I could really not care less.

    CiF had its chance to be brilliant and simply failed. Other than as a warning to others or as a laughing-stock, it is finished.

    Wybourne's comment at the top about Geert Wilders and sub-human scum-suburbs is interesting, though.

    I would seriously expect this to be coming to a town near you in the UK quite soon.

  87. Sheff

    Sod the dribblers indeed.

    I see that King of KSA supports his friend Mubarak - nasty goings on behind scenes.

    The Egyptian people should be the first concern but vested interests are weilding big sticks in the background.

  88. Atoms

    They are taking all the worst aspects of byegone days and giving them a 'modern twist'. First the workhouses for the undeserving poor and now the recreation of leper colonies.

    Who will police and control these barren estates ? For how long will living thinking people allow themselves to be segregated from main stream society and its benefits ?

    The more pressure that is applied the more likey an explosion.

  89. Chekhov - works for me! (One of my favourite lines at work.)

  90. I see that King of KSA supports his friend Mubarak - nasty goings on behind scenes.

    Its worrying Leni - the despots and their hangers on have so much to lose. The Saudi Royals will be very unhappy bunnies - I don't think they have ever imagined the Egyptian people would rise up en masse like this and utterly lose their fear. If it can happen in Egypt it can happen anywhere and they now know this - as do we all!

  91. Heiferlump? Should be Heffalump!

  92. here they are saying that there has been a military coup in eygpt.......

  93. lovely tweet from monashosh in Tahrir Sq

    Shit! What if he really steps down & takes wt him his bloody gang? We'll be back to normal life? But revolution is much more fun

  94. Paul

    Oh I dunno. Heifer lump suggests a lumpen cow of very little brain.

    I am finally disgusted by waddya - just a long string of cheap one liners at the expense of other people - cheap laughs from none too bright supporters and mutual self congratulatory masturbation.

  95. apparently the military have told mubarak to go....would be good if they'd nip over here and have a word with berlusco mubarak's good mate...

    will be interesting to see the italian response considering they have kept quiet over mubarak hardly surprising as they are the 2nd biggest foreign "investors" in eygpt......

  96. Leni

    Who will police and control these barren estates ?

    As i'm sure you know those neighbourhoods which have been cast adrift from mainstream society are already notoriously difficult to police especially as anyone guilty of 'grassing'is likely to face retaliation.And IMO the police already turn a blind eye to a lot of what's going on.Sadly the elderly,the sick and disabled,asylum seekers,single mothers who aren't 'protected' and anyone else who's either vulnerable or who's face doesn't fit are prime targets of crime and anti social behavior in these neighbourhoods.And all too often these vulnerable people are beyond the protection of the law.

  97. re waddya

    may it rest in pieces......it really is a w@nk fest over there......

  98. gandolfo

    Mubarak is reported to be preparing for handover to military.

    Dangerous moment - there are those among the military elite who also have much to lose.

  99. Leni

    "The great Cloaca of CiF"

    Yes, with its resident attendants, grotesques, doorkeepers and ticket-girls, bag-ladies, weird lurkers and opportunist lapel-grabbers and voyeurs and damp trails of stained lavatory paper winding and clinging to the floor.

    As for the return to a more brutal age of corrupted public virtue and mistaken private vices, this seems to have been a long time in the planning phase.

    The intention was to provide for limits on how much people would be allowed to travel internally within their own countries - without official permission.

    One of the Shitdribbles wanted to simply move people without jobs to whatever part of the country the government chose - or where one of their mates had set up a factory with filched tax-money.

    Dave and the Gang are probably having mutual masturbation evenings at the idea of setting up ghettos and segregating the lovely rich from the filthy poor and how to set up labour-camps.

    Once you set yourself on a course, at what point do you decide that you need to stop?

    Especially when, for you and your tribe, everything is simply lovely.

  100. Yeah, the military thing's a bit worrying isn't it!?

  101. leni

    indeed a dangerous moment....the news seems to be so fragmented that it's difficult to work out what's going on......wouldn't put it past the military to be playing both sides off against each other....

  102. Oh, sorry, Leni.

    That post took a long time, with distraction, to get sent.

    Now it looks like our posts are, ahem, playing with each other.

  103. Yes, something odd going on with Whaddya for the last few days. The best of the banterers have disappeared or are posting very infrequently and the thread's being swamped with rubbish puns and unfunny "humorous" comments.

  104. from al jazeera live blog

    "Reports of text messages sent out across the main networks: "Armed forces: The Supreme Council of the Armed Forces is currently examining the situation and will announce an important statement to the people." Sender comes up as: MOD."

  105. @spike:
    Bad puns and humour, and English Hermit spitting obtuse bullshit.... He's been at it for a few days now. I think the puns are a reaction to the bad feeling it's stirring.

    He really is a bit of a twat.

  106. My last UT2 post seems to have disappeared. There wouldn't be a spambot there too, would there?

  107. Cannot help but think the military held their hand against the people while awaiting their own opportunity.

    Any news of Suleiman ?

  108. Anyway, on the plus side, it turns out that We're all working class now, so you know, there is that!!

    Should make things a bit easier going forward and whatnot!!!

  109. @Meerkatjie

    Just "a bit of"?

  110. Hi there.

    This blogging business is getting complicated, what with Twittering and Intense Debate.


    Haven't read all the thread but I was sorry to hear that Reikval has become persona non grata over on CiF. Just wanted to say that Monkeyfish said that he was getting banned pretty much as soon as he had made his first post with the new nic. He felt that if his IP address was being recognised, then that might be the source of his identification.

  111. "Cannot help but think the military held their hand against the people while awaiting their own opportunity."

    I know what you mean, Leni. And it wouldn't be the first time, really. I hope it's not the case.

  112. Spike - mine keep disappearing, then reappearing in a few minutes.

    Kermit is a huge twat. Good on Hagbard for pointing that out.

    Fingers crossed for the Egyptian people.

  113. listening to obama on eygpt...not convinced but the sincerity...
    "interconnected world" which he cites translates as we'll screw you with our neolib economics like everyone else and don't forget it.....

  114. but should be "by sincerity"

  115. am I cynical or realist or what.....? sometimes i really wish that i could be more optimistic...

    should never have read Klein's "shock doctrine"

  116. I got told I was too cynical only yesterday, Gandolfo!

    I adopted the standard response, which, I believe is:

    "Yeah? Well, everything is shit, and anyone who pretends it's not can go fuck themselves!!"

    Job done!!

  117. And on that note, I have to pop out.

    In a bit....

  118. gandolfo

    I have gone through cynicism, come out the other side and am now constsntly wary of anything said by a politician anywhere because I know however fine the words it is going to create hell for somebody, somewhere. That means for the majority.

  119. leni

    i can't remember the last time i felt i could believe a politician.....i have a good memory so i imagine it was around 1978.....

  120. If anyone accuses me of being cynical my response is, "better to be cynical than gullible"

    BTW; managed to post on intensedebate.

    Do you have to type your name in with each post?

  121. So, given that America is supposed to have quietly fomented the Egyptian unrest for several years and now it seems that things have been orchestrated so that a military takeover seems the only outcome with Torturer in Chief Suleiman in charge, has America achieved what it planned all along?

    From AFP:

    1800 GMT: Crowds chanting on Tahrir Square, "The people have brought down the regime!. The people and the army will complete the journey!"

    In retrospect, this might look more like an orderly handover from one oppressor to another.

  122. @thaum

    I'm having the same problem. My posts are appearing and disappearing and I have to keep switching from Date to Last Activity to get them back or new ones up.

  123. @Chekhov

    You'll need to create an account.

  124. Errr, well my last post on intensedebate has disappeared. Are there spamming issues on that site also?

  125. Re IntenseDebate: I think you see your post initially because you've posted it, but then it goes through some filtering mechanism (spam or not) so that when you refresh it hasn't appeared yet.

    If you wait a few minutes and then refresh again, it seems to come up.

  126. heh...heh.. tweet from La Penz

    Brilliant revolutionary burlesque from Bird La Bird, riffing on the SCUM manifesto. Joy.

    Our youthful revolutionary appears to missed the fact that something else is going on thats marginally more important 'revolution wise' than a burlesque show....

  127. sheff

    come on there be an article by her on how burlesque has with her unique input contributed to, nay caused the egyptian uprising....

  128. on al jazeera live mubarak speech imminent...great live footage from central cairo.......

  129. Someone's really pissed off RedMiner today:

    "So you don't think I have credibility. I think that falls into the so fucking-what category for me, mate".
    and ...
    "Is ten quid the going rate for a clear conscience these days, then?"


  130. Tuned in, gandolfo ... it's spellbinding.

  131. mschin

    bloody wish it would happen here.....sooner rather than later....

  132. Watching the live stream on Al Jazeera - looks like everyone's waiting...

  133. Here too gandolfo...if only!!

    i wish the old bastard would get a bloody move on....my nerves are in shreds. But am truly envious of the people in the Square - what a fantastic atmosphere.

  134. AB

    suleiman is/was the CIA's man in egypt...part of the extraordinary rendition programme and an essential link between the CIA and Mossad....the US want him in there no doubt about that...and if they want him, in some form or another in a position of active power or in the wings dictating, they'll no doubt get him......

  135. I'm afraid that despite the Spambot, I prefer the status quo for the moment. As I said, I seem to have to juggle Date, Last Activity and page number to bring the latest posts up. Or am I doing something wrong?

  136. fuckers not going is he.........until the next presidential elections

  137. Stubborn bastard, Mubarak, isn't he? I can't quite believe this speech.

  138. It could all get rather bloody now. Why the fuck don't the army get rid of him? Don't they see him as a liability? What's he promised to whom?

  139. deserves all he gets now..... why am i not surprised that he and berlusco are good friends....both hanging on by the skin of their teeth......the fuckers......

  140. oh ffs" Which part of Go does he not understand!

  141. spike
    the US are their biggest economic partner...they know what he was going to say and want to protect their investments.....

  142. Are the BBC turning up the sound or are the chants of the crowd in Tahrir Square getting louder and louder?

  143. jesus

    he is a bastard this martyr piece is really sick...

  144. He certainly drones on, doesn't he.

  145. no they are really angry spike.......thank god he's finished now now throwing shoes in the air.....

  146. If I were Egyptian - Iwouldn't buy that.
    Cliches strung together like beads.

  147. Don't know about intensedebate; more like intense confusion from my end.

    You post a comment and it disappears if you click refresh......click on recent activity and the whole thread is reversed chronologically and it re-appears at the top.

    Seems like a bit of a"faff on" to me, or am I doing it wrong?

  148. Mubarak might be hanging from a lampost by the end of next week. What a cunt.

    Egyptians should form an orderly queue to get their personal share of his $70 billion personal fortune. That's several years' wages for each citizen as I calculate it.

    He also says he won't leave the soil of Egypt until he's buried under it. I doubt that he'll be granted that courtesy - they'll burn his body and feed it to the dogs.

  149. interesting analysis by al jazeera on WTF has happened......re leaked announcements by the military etc......

  150. text from old man in Masbat - people are very unhappy & angry - shit and fans are his thoughts talking to people there.

  151. It all depends whether the army are stupid enough to continue backing him or not. And whether the USA will back the army if they back him.

  152. On a more philosophical note, this from the great Alexandrian poet C P Cavafy:

    At the noisy end of the café, head bent
    over the table, an old man sits alone,
    a newspaper in front of him.

    And in the miserable banality of old age
    he thinks how little he enjoyed the years
    when he had strength, eloquence, and looks.

    He knows he’s aged a lot: he sees it, feels it.
    Yet it seems he was young just yesterday.
    So brief an interval, so very brief.

    And he thinks of Prudence, how it fooled him,
    how he always believed—what madness—
    that cheat who said: “Tomorrow. You have plenty of time.”

    He remembers impulses bridled, the joy
    he sacrificed. Every chance he lost
    now mocks his senseless caution.

    But so much thinking, so much remembering
    makes the old man dizzy. He falls asleep,
    his head resting on the café table.

  153. Oh shit. Apparently people are marching on the presidential palace.

  154. "Egypt is braving hard times, where we cannot tolerate these circumstances to continue. Our economy has suffered losses and damages - and day by day it will end up where the youth, who are calling for more reform will be the first victims."

    this is nasty stuff from the madman....

  155. This comment has been removed by the author.

  156. Spike

    They should wait until more people are on the streets.

    This is bad - very bad. I feel sick.

  157. Disgusting - the guy is behaving like an addict refusing to kick his habit - the drug is power of course.

    I feel sick, all those trite appeals to nationalism, the patriarchal self assurance - he just doesn't understand what is happening does he?

  158. it was a deliberately provocative speech to goad people and the state will respond with violence...they're also heading for the military base in cairo......it gonna get really nasty...

  159. According to some Intense Debate tech support guy "IntenseDebate supports the following HTML tags – {a}, {b}, {i}, {u}, {em}, {p}, {blockquote}, {br}, {strong}, {strike}, {img}."

    (I've replaced the greater than/less than signs with curly ones, as the original gives Blogger kittens.)

    But the admin has to allow image embedding first: :"You can allow your readers to add images to their comments by enabling this option in your Blog Settings page (login into IntenseDebate.com, select the tab named after your blog followed by the “Settings” sub-tab). The option is located on the right side of the page under the heading “Display Settings.” Image tags are disabled by default."

  160. Oh and if you can enable YouTube vid embedding while you're there that would be kewl.

  161. Wha? If someone shat in the sink after they came in from the pub it wasn't me. I'm blaming Bracken, as he's not here at the moment and can't defend himself.

  162. Technophobe here, Rapid, that's all. Can't do geek-speak.

  163. He's got the backing of at least part of the army. How much?

  164. Spike

    The army elite may be divided - the young recruits will be aware of the danger to the people, including their own families. They have not been bought with luxuries .

  165. suleiman now speaking telling people "to hold hands.....march forward and exit hardships as part of a team......"

    jeeze they really are deluded

  166. Suleiman is noew deploying the rhetoric of deperation.

  167. @Leni

    Of course. Sadly, it's the generals that are giving the orders. Is there a Thomas Sankara in the Egyptian army?

  168. What scherfig said. Can't believe it.

  169. i'm really worried for the people in egypt i hope they are prepared......

  170. "Don't listen to the satelite TV listen to your consciences"

    These people don't know what conscience is, I do hope there isn't a bloodbath but I fear there will be!

    Is the West behind this? Do these bastards know something we don't?

  171. I'm sensing an imminent "Causcescu moment" in Cairo.

    Since this is rather more pressing than our trivial problems about which site we choose to blog on, could we extend the deadline beyond Sunday to decide if we want to switch or not?

  172. Checkhov - I think you are right = history is sort of taking over isn't it?

  173. anne

    the west is always behind people like mubarak and suleiman.......

  174. Thousands marching on the TV station which is surrounded by the Presidential Guard. This could be appalling.

  175. 'Is the West behind this? Do these bastards know something we don't?'

    FFS, Anne. It has been obvious from the start that 'the West' haven't had a fucking clue about what's been going on in Egypt day by day, much less have any influence on or control over the situation. Have you ever considered thinking for yourself instead of just of just blithely drinking a different flavoured Koolade from the neocons?

  176. Anne

    KSA has pledged to fund the army should US pull their one billion + subsidy. They will not be alone.

    The West is also very keen on what they call'stability'

  177. BTW: one of the broadcasters on the Aljazeera live thread said he had a shit load of tabs open from various newsagencies around the globe but the silence from Washington was deafening.

  178. if anyone wants to know about suleiman here's an
    an article

  179. Senior military figure (ex m intel) saying Mubarak may be sick... and insulted the Egyptian people. Can't work out whats going on with the army

  180. Egypt on waddya (according to hermione):

    madonna is going through the same process in the pop world but sadly egypt has no lady gaga in the wings.

    Puts it all in perspective, doesn't it? Perhaps hermiones's staunch defenders here (eg. paul, montana) could stick up for ms gingold with a spirited argument about how she's more socialist than me and hank.

  181. sheff
    well after the speech by suleiman no-one in their right mind would accept him as a leader...so at least that's put a definitive nail in his coffin....the military may decide to take over now, whether the people will accept this as a possible interim measure is highly debatable given their track record, ...of course the US would be happy with this option..

  182. The bastards I refer to are Mubarak & Co, have western govts been 'assuring them of support'?

    Those in power appear to be completley deluded. The Egyptian govt haven't got a clue never mind the west. Mubarak is mad and he believes he is invincible because of the western support he has always had.Just heard Obama speak, sounds supportive of the people but he supports 'an orderly transition to democracy'. Mubarak talked of 'constitutional change'does this mean the same thing? I don't know.

    Quite capable of thinking for myself - can't help it if events seem to be following a pattern. The people have spoken very clearly' and there is no doubt that the west, the Egyptian govt have no influence - doesn't stop them thinking they still have. Mubarak certainly thinks he has.

    A big question is which way will the army jump.

    Don't drink koolaid of any flavour.

  183. jeeze scherfig

    that's really depressing in line with laurie penny's hyper excitement over burlesque tonight...well she would being such a socialist wouldn't she.......

  184. anne

    i think the collective west has been quiet because they actually do know what's going on and don't want to rock the diplomatic boat with israel...being on the border with egypt...

    i read obama's stability stuff as ambiguous words nothing more or less that you can read with optomism or cynicism whatever you want to read......to me this "stability" means keep the economic system as it is, and basically the power base and remember you're our son's of bitches not anyone elses....

  185. To change the subject slightly, Lauren Laverne on 10 o'clock live recommended that viewers read the Monbiot article. I've always been a Laverne fan.

  186. gando;fo - yes as I said there are some parallels between what Obama said and what Mubarak said.

    Which is precisely what my comment(21:48) hinted at. The ambiguity of Obama's speech confirms my suspicion that there has been some talking behind the scenes. The results of such clueless meddling could be disastrous.

  187. Sorry, anne. Didn't mean to be offensive but you sound like a cut'n'paste of whatever leaflet/email/article you've just received/read from people who are telling you how to think. If you want to (mis)use Marxist dialectics then please define what you mean by 'the west' before you use the term in an argument.

    Although I probably agree with some of the self-evident truisms you have just stated :0), your touching faith in the ability of 'the West' to profoundly affect developments in the Arab world seems patronising and post-colonial. Recent history, from the Iranian revolution to Iraq/Afghanistan, Tunisia and Sudan would suggest that 'the West' can provide billions of dollars (often to the 'wrong' side) but doesn't actually make a blind bit of difference to how things eventually go.

  188. OOPS! Gandolfo!! sorry - bit of a typo queen tonight!

  189. Am I wrong in thinking that there are too many American and British arms dealers who would get hurt in the pocket if too much "democracy" gets exported? And furthermore that they have too much influence over "foreign policy"?

  190. Obama could have done more to signal his support for democratic change in Egypt, that's true. Perhaps he was mindful of the crap that descends on him when he likewise fingerwags towards China, Iran and the terrorist shit stirrers in the Middle East.

  191. Scherfig I do not cut and paste stuff on here unless I italicise it

    I have absolutely NO faith in the west's ability to influence affairs in the ME. (do I have to define that too?). But they do still believe in their right to police the world - chiefly the US and its poodle the UK which is why they spend billions of dollars.

    I wouldn't say that their intervention in Iraq had no effect though - it just has had the opposite effect to the one they intended. Which does rather prove their increasing impotence.

    The trouble is their bumbling incompetent meddling could be encouraging Mubarak - which could result in a very nasty situation developing.

    The comment at 21:48 was not intended as Marxist analysis it was an emotional rant because, while my head tells me that revolutions are sadly often violent, the thought of all that impending violence is upsetting.