05 March 2011


When Autumn Came

This is the way that autumn came to the trees:
it stripped them down to the skin,
left their ebony bodies naked.
It shook out their hearts, the yellow leaves,
scattered them over the ground.
Anyone could trample them out of shape
undisturbed by a single moan of protest.

The birds that herald dreams
were exiled from their song,
each voice torn out of its throat.
They dropped into the dust
even before the hunter strung his bow.

Oh, God of May have mercy.
Bless these withered bodies
with the passion of your resurrection;
make their dead veins flow with blood again.

Give some tree the gift of green again.
Let one bird sing.

-Faiz Ahmed Faiz
translated by Naomi Lazard


  1. parallaxview said...

    Good to see on board BTH - I can now formally hand back the early morning music baton.

    Sadly I'm back in the UK early next week so early morning is no longer eight hours ahead of BST. So here's what might be an early morning farewell, although there's always tomorrow.

    - Rigoletto

    Giuseppe Verdi, Gualtier Malde...Caro nome - Joan Sutherland

  2. BeautifulBurnout said...

    Bitey - interesting comment about chanting. Did you participate or just observe? My experience of practicing it has been the complete opposite. Still, horses for courses and all that.

    Well it was slightly tongue in cheek and I don't participate myself, but observing the bored disinterest on the faces of many of the chanters I can only conclude that this is a practice that's as mechanistic and repetitive as a metronome, and far more noisy.

    The "received wisdom" that free-market capitalism is the only way life can possibly work is depressing and one of the biggest con tricks ever perpetrated by those in power. Makes me seethe.

    Except there are millions who don't believe this, from trade union activists, to collectivists of all kinds, to drop-outs, travellers, those who live in communes and so on. Capitalism accommodates them as long as they don't become too threatening, and indeed they can force it to do so, but they can rarely agree with each other for sufficient time to seriously challenge anything.

    I love this place. Makes me happy. :o)

    Food for thought......

  3. I think the reason why most of us no longer want to discuss I/P matters is that doing so creates more heat than light.

    The history of the ME post WW2 has it seems to me been an inexorable downhill run by governments on both sides. We now have a Hammas administration in Gaza which according to some proves that Palestinians hate Israelis. We also have a response from most Israeli governments that according to others proves that Israelis hate Palestinians.

    I just find myself weeping for both the Palestinian and Israeli people.

    Saying that on an I/P thread gets me shot at from both sides and I got pretty sick of it.

    If I criticise the French, and Italian governments and not be accused of being anti French or anti Italian. I can even criticise my own government (and LIKE HELL I DO!) and not be called a self hating Brit.

    Lets be clear anti-semitism exists and it has a long shameful and bloody history, and yes, criticism of Israel may indicate anti-semitism but it does not automatically do so.

    I don't actually hate anybody, I really hate what some people do to others and that includes having an irrational hatred of another human being because of their 'race' religion or nationality.

    But then I believe that 'my race is human and my country is the world'. I don't have a religion.

  4. morning all


    You described a trip to Sth China the other day that sounded really interesting. Did you take any pics? If you did would you stick some up in our gallery? I'd love to see them.


    I feel much the same about I/P - the situation is such an appalling mess. I used to comment on Seth Freedmans pieces but gave up as they so often descended into poisonous spats. Whatever happened to Seth Freedman btw? he hasn't appeared for ages.

  5. Meanwhile, in "Flat-Cap Good - Fat Cat Bad" news, we learn that the global financial crisis may actually have been in some way - however remotely and implausibly - caused by the bankers.

    This is odd, since Nick Clegg was very quick, after seeing his "party" come twelvety-zillionth in the Barnsley by-election, to put the blame on New Labour, for "causing" the global economic meltdown.

    Of course, "Dave" Camoron has always blamed the filthy poor for causing the very same financial catastrophe.

    So, until Mervyn King let it slip that maybe bankers had a hand in it, nobody on earth was supposed to know that they were anything other than innocent bystanders, sadly and unwittingly caught up in the biggest banking car-crash in history.

    If you see a poor little banker, perhaps on your way to work or having your lunch in the park, just spare them a thought and maybe give them a cheery grin or offer them a cup of tea or some loose change.

    Then rip their fucking filthy faces off.


    UK 'risks fresh financial crisis' says King

    Britain risks suffering another financial crisis unless fundamental reforms of the banking sector are pushed through, the Governor of the Bank of England has warned.

    Mervyn King said problems still remained and "imbalances" in the system were "beginning to grow again".

    He also urged high-street banks to take a longer-term approach to their business and not simply try to "maximise profits next week".

    The intervention, in an interview with the Daily Telegraph, comes as a Government commission is considering whether financial institutions should be forced to separate retail and investment banking arms.

    "We allowed a (banking) system to build up which contained the seeds of its own destruction," Mr King said.

    "We've not yet solved the 'too big to fail' or, as I prefer to call it, the 'too important to fail' problem. The concept of being too important to fail should have no place in a market economy."

    Asked if there could be a repeat of the financial crisis, Mr King said: "Yes. The problem is still there. The search for yield goes on. Imbalances are beginning to grow again."

    Mr King suggested that the culture of short-term profits and bonuses could be to blame for the issues. Traditional manufacturing industries had a more "moral" way of operating.

    "They care deeply about their workforce, about their customers and, above all, are proud of their products," he said.

    "(With the banks) there isn't that sense of longer-term relationships. There's a different attitude towards customers. Small and medium firms really notice this: they miss the people they know.

    "If it's possible (for financial services firms) to make money out of gullible or unsuspecting customers, particularly institutional customers, that is perfectly acceptable."

    However, good businesses "keep a clear vision of who their customers are, and are run by people who don't think they should simply maximise profits next week", according to the governor.

  6. Ich bin ein, er, Spambinner.

  7. AB - unspambinned for ya.

    Anne - I couldn't agree with you more re: feeling the suffering of both Israelis and Palestinians - or indeed any civillians caught up in the insane shenanigans of war-mongering leaders.

    There is something insidious, however, about the notion that if one criticises the actions of an administration, that must mean that we hate and despise their people. So many on the "I" side of the I/P debate (or as parallax more correctly described it yesterday, the "I I I I I /(p)" debate rely on shouting "anti-semite" as loud as they possibly can at anyone who criticises the actions of Israel as a State, knowing full well that people will suddenly go on the defensive because the last thing they are is anti-semitic.

    The exchange between Thaum and Aspanda on Waddya yesterday was a prime example of how they will deliberately misconstrue and manipulate words, semantics to the nth degree, in order to "prove" that someone else is anti-semitic.

  8. AlliedPress says The Lib Dems are widely tipped to come behind Gaddafi in May 5 elections.

    General election anyone ?

  9. Lesbian song


  10. This comment has been removed by the author.

  11. @BB, you write; 'There is something insidious,however,about the notion that if one criticises the actions of an administration,that they must mean that we hate and despise their people,so many on the ''I'' side of the I/P debate(or as parallax more correctly described it yesterday the ''IIIII/P'' debate) rely on shouting 'antisemitism' as loud as they possibly can at anyone who criticises the actions of Israel as a state,knowing full well that people will suddenly go on the defensive,because the last thing they are is antisemitic.The exchange between thaum and aspanda on waddya yesterday was a prime example of how they will delibereatly misconstrue words,semantics to the nth degree ,in order to ''prove'' that someone is antisemtic'.

    Well thats just bullshit BB, and its been spouted so many times that it is becoming 'insidious' in itself. You, and others, accuse posters of playing the antisemite card in order to deflect critisicm of Israel the state.
    For a start, why use the word 'insidious' BB? do you believe that Jews, in some underhand,cunning, artful and deceitful way attempt to shut down and deflect all criticism of Israel,the state, and it's administaration, by shouting 'really loudly' whenever 'they possibly can' 'anti semite' 'anti semite'. Surely,it must be frigen obvious to anyone with half a brain, that being a mere critic of Israel, the state, does not suddenly turn someone into a raging antisemite, otherwise the majority of the population of Israel would themselves be antisemites, it's good to be critical of Israeli policy,just like it's good to be critical of US policy, but what you, and countless others continually seek to do, is to claim that 'Jews play the antisemitic card in bad faith, in order to de-legitimise criticism of Israel,in this way, anyone who raises a worry about contemporary antisemitism,already stands accused of doing so maliciously and insidiously, and they also stand accused of doing so as part of a common plan, which is why your comment about the exchange between aspanda and thauma is particuarly telling. 'A prime example of how THEY will deliberately misconstrue words,semantics to the nth degree in order to 'prove' that someone else is antisemitic'.

  12. To cheer myself up I'm off to see Steve Bell who's come to Glasgow for a literary festival.

    Must dash.

  13. Bth - man, I'd be happy to step up to the plate for early morning bird-chorus whenever needed - except, like you, I'm not always around.

    *classified ad*: opportunity exists for implant opportunist on this blog - requirements: if nothing posted before 8.30am post a tune relevant to the previous day's thread - for example: 'horses for courses' leads to: The horses are on the track

  14. "but observing the bored disinterest on the faces of many of the chanters I can only conclude that this is a practice that's as mechanistic and repetitive as a metronome, and far more noisy."

    The function is to calm the mind, BTH. If they were bouncing about looking excited, the practice wouldn't be working....

  15. *The function* meerkatjie - that's the rub

  16. smtx

    "do you believe that Jews, in some underhand,cunning, artful and deceitful way attempt to shut down and deflect all criticism of Israel,the state, and it's administaration, by shouting 'really loudly' whenever 'they possibly can' 'anti semite' 'anti semite'."

    A case in point. Some Jews do. That doesn't mean that all Jews do. I don't happen to like the tactics of the Jews that do. Does that make me anti-semitic, smtx?

    And here we have it again, demonstrating precisely what I meant:

    "'A prime example of how THEY will deliberately misconstrue words,semantics to the nth degree in order to 'prove' that someone else is antisemitic'. "

    Semantics used as a way of suggesting that I believe all Jews to be the same, and, thus, an expression of my own anti-semitic leanings.

    You have just proved my own point for me. Thank you.

  17. parallax - why is it that "that's the rub"?

    Do you think there is something wrong in seeking to calm the mind, or to be master of one's own mind, instead of having it leaping about the place like a frog in a dustbin

  18. Nap - can you tell Steve Bell I love him?

    Have a good time! :o)

  19. Have had great morning organising some time off over Easter. Am off to Cairo to see a couple of old pals, get the sp on events, enjoy the cacophonous racket of the old place, some warmth, sun and gallons of mint tea. Am counting down the days!

    f you see a poor little banker, perhaps on your way to work or having your lunch in the park,

    They're not getting any more of my lunches AB! But happy to rip off a face or two..

  20. It's a shakespeare reference BB there's the rub - from Hamlet's soliloquy.

    Couple of questions here

    1. meerkatijie's - *purpose* of chanting to calm the mind. Have to question who's purpose? And who wants those minds directed inwards.

    2. BB's - calming is cool - if it's your choice rather than an imposed keep-the-mind occupied whilst we obliterate

  21. BB

    instead of having it leaping about the place like a frog in a dustbin

    You've just described my mind - only these days it usually feels like several ancient frogs in a bin...

  22. I know what "there's the rub" means, silly - but now you have explained yourself more fully I see what you are getting at.

    As to "whose purpose", I would say that it is the purpose of the person practicing it. I can't really see how you can obliterate anything while keeping someone's mind occupied, unless you believe that people can be "brainwashed" Manchurian-Candidate stylee while they are chanting, which is a load of old tosh.

    For me, chanting makes me see things very clearly and more objectively, as well as sometimes seeing the solution to problems that are bugging me - in the same way that you can "go to sleep on a problem" and wake up with the solution the next morning. It is refreshing and invigorating, like taking a nap while you are awake, really. But, as I said before, it's horses for courses and will not suit everyone.

  23. Unspammed - although I had read that comment, parallax, so god knows where it disappeared to!!

  24. BB - I totally knew that you knew Hamlet's soliloquy off by heart, silly.

    Chant away - if it keeps YOU engaged.

  25. Tried that chanting business once at the behest of a friend - but found a small spliff was less stressful, took less time and was more effective.

  26. LOL Sheff - nowt wrong with that! :o)

    Right - about time I got out of my dressing gown, into the bath, then off to see my Dad.

    Hugs to all xx

  27. BW

    Nice choonage from the late lamented Mr Moore. :o)

  28. I'm in premod. Again. And the mods still won't tell me what rule I broke. Again.

    I was just settling in for a nice afternoon of talking shit on the internet too. Oh well. I'll have to do some work instead, I suppose.

  29. "As to "whose purpose", I would say that it is the purpose of the person practicing it. I can't really see how you can obliterate anything while keeping someone's mind occupied, unless you believe that people can be "brainwashed" Manchurian-Candidate stylee while they are chanting, which is a load of old tosh."

    I assumed parallax meant in an opiate of the masses kind of sense? And yes, obviously Buddhist practice, like all religious practice, has served this purpose of keeping people docile. But as BB suggests, that's not it's only purpose. Also, quietening the mind a little generally produces the effect of a much more sharply focused mind after meditation.

  30. There was some interesting chanting at Celtic Park last Sunday. Don't think they were Budhists though.

  31. Meerkatjie

    I'm in premod. Again. And the mods still won't tell me what rule I broke. Again.

    I think the formulation of the "code of conduct" and the fact that Matt Scrotum was at pains to declare that the mods are both above the reach of mere editors and beyond question or reproach, along with the first rule of CiF being that no discussion of moderation is allowed, together mean that it matters very little whether you broke any rules or that any meaningful dialogue can happen between you and your virtual masters.

    Like everyone on CiF, you are the plaything of the idle, vengeful, ideological or simply "because I can" mentality of the whole enterprise. You have to be shown that you have no value and that you are also powerless.

    Interestingly, there was a frisson of panic on Dribbly after GMG displayed just how savage they can be when it comes to cuts, as demonstrated with that rude crowd from GUT-land.

    The voice of Dribbly - yes, the self-styled cultural attache, Brusselsectoplasm - declared that she would happily carry on posting, even if she had to pay for the pleasure.

    How much more can you abase yourself before the laughing, nudging, squealing entourage of the GMG?

    However, being abused seems to have its own weird and perverse attractions, even for someone peering down from dizzying political and cultural heights.

    Not only do some people learn to love Big Brother.

    They want to tongue and lick his boots, even as he uses them to kick them in the face.

  32. Nice one AB !

    Speaking of frogs (upthread), I just watch La Haine, and am now going to cheer myself up by eating some glass.


  33. @bitterweed 'I just watched la haine, and am now going to cheer myself up by eating some glass'.
    La haine, havent seen that for years, great film, try cheering yourself up by watching Chopper(one of my Favs)

  34. smtx01

    do you believe that Jews, in some underhand,cunning, artful and deceitful way attempt to shut down and deflect all criticism of Israel,the state, and it's administaration, by shouting 'really loudly' whenever 'they possibly can' 'anti semite' 'anti semite'.

    Haven't read the whole thread and thauma may have answered this herself but from my pov human beings can ,sadly, all be underhand,cunning, artful and deceitful

    Jews are human beings aren't they? prone to same faults we are all prone to, the same irritating faults as the rest of us.

    I have been accused of anti semitism on I/P threads many times for criticising Israel government policy.

    More than that, I have done so on the grounds that their policies actually threatened the security of the Israeli people.

    For some people nothing less than complete support for the policies of the state of Israel ensures that you are either an anti-semite or a self hating Jew. This gets in the way of reasoned debate and reasoned debate on this topic is desperately needed by all concerned.

    This does not imply that the above in any way describes your point of view but it would seem to be that of many of the posters on Cif I/P threads.

  35. Chopper, seen it , lol. Thanks anyways.

  36. Fancy a bit of light-hearted horror now. Dog Soliders should do it

  37. BB = Do you think there is something wrong in seeking to calm the mind, or to be master of one's own mind, instead of having it leaping about the place like a frog in a dustbin


  38. Atomboy

    The voice of Dribbly - yes, the self-styled cultural attache, Brusselsectoplasm - declared that she would happily carry on posting, even if she had to pay for the pleasure.

    She was positively slathering at the thought - after all, a paywall would keep the nasty riff-raff out.

  39. Interestingly though, easier for her employers to then sack her.

  40. The Daily Mail is reporting that George Osbourne is planning a return to granting Enterprise Zone status to certain areas.Something i predicted would happen.So now the captive working class workforces living in these zones will be at the mercy of private sector employers attracted by the tax breaks etc that will be offerred to them by the Con Dems.Paid for of course by our money. It's a return to the ill fated trickle down economics of the 80,s/90,s.It didn't work then and it sure as hell ain't gonna work now.

  41. @BB I wrote ; ' Do you believe that Jews, in some underhand,cunning,artful and deceitful way attempt to shut down and deflect all criticism of Israel,the state,and it's administration, by shouting ''really loudly'' and whenever ''they possibly can anti semite anti semite'.

    You reply 'a case in point,some Jews do, that doesn't mean that all Jews do, I dont happen to like the tactics of the Jews that do,does that make me an anti semite smtx'.

    @anne 'Jews are human beings,prone to the same faults we all are prone too'.

    well thanks for that guys..always good to know Jews are human and prone to the same faults as the rest of you's. @ bb if you took away the word Jew, and replaced it with black, and replied in that manner to a black poster who was upset about racisim, (or what he/she perceived as racisim against black people, and wrote in reply; ' Some blacks do,doesnt mean that all blacks do,I dont happen to like the tactics of the blacks that do,does that make me anti black'?.
    Ok, maybe im a para ethnic minority here, but it comes across a tad patronising and slightly offensive, To be honest I think a person can be racist and anti semitic without understanding it-whilst denying it-maybe you agree?, but BB to accuse someone who raises the issue of antisemitism-not because they they think the 'issue is important,but because they wish to de-legitimise criticism of Israel by the 'mis use of the charge of anti semitism-this cannot be done unconciously or by accident or through ignorance', I read something by hirsh that went a little sumit like this; 'either a charge of antisemitism is made honestly-because a person believes there is a case to answer, or a charge of anti semitism is made in order to de- legitimise criticism of Israel-' Take caryl churchill for example, she accused howard jacobson of; 'When howard jacobson confuses those who criticise Israel with anti semitism, he is also making the same mistake, unless he's doing it on purpose'(independent/co.uk/opinion), Its hard to see this, without seeing that she is accusing him of a being a lying Jew who knows what he's doing,but does it anyway because he is playing 'the anti semite card'

  42. yes, and sort of, Meerkatjie.

    If people, in their own Richard Geer fashion, find solace from the pressures of western life in the tenets of an eastern philosophy then - good luck to them. But, as Sheff up-thread suggested, if it doesn't suit them then there are other alternatives (spliffs for example).

    I'm guessing the bulk of chanters don't have the option to select from the religious/philosophical equivalent of waitrose or waterstone shelves - let alone a return purchase refund with receipt policy.

    yeh, so the point was not so much 'how does it work for you' but more 'does it really work for them'.

  43. Sheffpixie, I'd willingly post a photo or three but under the UT Photogallery is a message:

    We're sorry...

    This gadget is configured incorrectly. Webmaster hint: Please ensure that "Friend Connect Settings - Home URL" matches the URL of this site.

    No idea what this means - so sorry no photos here at the moment.

    But I've put a few on panoramio which you can view here

  44. .


    I've posted a link to some photos on panoramio (I'm locked out of the UT Gallery), with a link but I think it must be in the spam bin.

  45. aside from this:

    Montana - excellent choice of poem from Faiz Ahmed Faiz

    Thank you

  46. charlie

    Read your posts from yesterdays thread and hope you're feeling a bit better today.Until you find yourself a job could you find some volunteering work that's not only doing something you enjoy but where you have more contact with people your own age?.Also the OU has a number of special interest groups that may be of interest to you.And maybe you could place a small classified ad in the OU students magazine letting people know what you want to do and asking whether they can help you.The OU community of both graduates and under-graduates is pretty large now as well as being diverse.So who knows,it could turn up something for you.Finally if i were you i'd join a gym or sports club doing something that you enjoy but which keeps you fit.I know it's a cliche but healthy mind and healthy body and all that!Many sports clubs and gyms offer discounts to the unemployed so hopefully it wouldn't cost you to much.All the best.

  47. Fab photos, bitey. The temples are stunning.

  48. Great photos bitey and welcome back.

  49. Paul

    Yes, it does sound like more shovelling of tax money into the pockets of the filthy rich, doesn't it?

    Obviously, there is a class which can happily be designated as the undeserving poor. Basically, this means anyone who doesn't jump at the chance of becoming...well, a slave, essentially.

    On the other hand, there is no such thing as an undeserving business. Whatever its size, however profitable, however soaked and entrenched it might be in fuckwittery and fat-cattery, it is never too rich not to be given some tax money to oil its wheels or bulge the pockets of its directors.

    Didn't Iain Duncan Shitdribble also say that the poor would have to succumb to being herded into areas where his mates had businesses which could flourish with a bit of free labour?

    Time to invest in cattle-wagon rolling-stock, no doubt.

    Here is Osboron:

    Speaking at the Welsh Conservatives' spring conference in Cardiff, he said: "We cannot place all our bets on the City Of London. Wouldn't it be great if Britain made things again?

    "What I want to see is a manufacturing revival.

    "In the budget in less than three weeks' time, we will confront the forces of stagnation that stand in the way of success, bring down new barriers that stop Britain getting back on its feet.

    "The Budget is going to be unashamedly pro-growth, pro-enterprise and pro-aspiration. It will look at the planning delays, the new regulations, the bureaucracy and the costs that hold business back and stop jobs being created.
    "Not just in London, or the South East, but across Britain."


    You mean, there is still a world over the other side of the M25?

    You don't just fall off the edge?

    We are allowed to make things, without getting told off?

    Who knew this?

    Oh, well.

    Happy days are here again, happy days are...

  50. thauma and Bitterweed

    Yes, but keep in mind that Brussels is the land of the sloppy slush-fund, where even the catering staff can simply plunge their arms into the money-pot and take out whatever they want, pretending, like the Kinnochios, that it is essential for the functioning of their part of the bureaucratic hive.

    Just wait for Brusselsnackajacks to declare:

    "Oh, yes, I put the Guardian's subscription fee on expenses. It is essential for the chief political analist to keep her finger on the pulse and how better than by listening to what the little people think.

    "Sorry, love, we're out of cream crackers. I can do you a slice of bread and butter, though."

  51. It's like we're horribly cursed to watch the same car crash over and over, watching this coalition hammer out the same old failed economic policies, isn't it Paul? And gideon really is as thick, and as complacent, as he looks.

  52. "The Budget is going to be unashamedly pro-growth, pro-enterprise and pro-aspiration. It will look at the planning delays, the new regulations, the bureaucracy and the costs that hold business back and stop jobs being created."

    So, that'll be a return to pre-Factory Acts labour conditions, where employers are legally obliged to nail their workers to their desks or benches, and the removal of any and all rights on the part of those who toil to create the wealth.

    You know, the filthy, lazy, feckless lollygaggers who are not bankers, politicians, film and media stars or company bosses.

  53. Enterprise Zones - 3 years tax free for the business owners, minimum wage for the workers and then business closes, jobs go and owners go off to rip off somewhere else. Great fun.

    So - everyone. Get out there and enterprise.

  54. Meerk, it's always seemed a strange policy to me, but one of things that is almost guaranteed to get you into pre-mod or worse is arguing about a deletion. Lord Summerisle famously was outright banned for arguing over deletions (and then unbanned after a fairly sizable commenter mutiny), but then that was on Bidi thread. He might as well have nailed the baby Jesus to a giant butt-plug and spray-painted Him with rhino faeces.

    At a guess, you either argued with a mod or were unspeakably curt with one of the house-trained Dribbly pets - EnglishHermaphrodite, BrusselsTeatrolley etc. Failing that, just look at Jezzabella's profile pic and imagine her saying "You know what you've done..."

    The sort of nonsense you're currently putting up with is why I hung up my CiF commenting boots. Why put effort and thought into a response that stands about a 50:50 chance of deletion? So I read CiF articles (Orr and Monbiot have been very good recently, I used to like Jenni Russell's stuff but she seems to have gone elsewhere) and respond to them on the UT (100% chance of your thoughts remaining up). And zero pre-mod.

    Remember also that they're trying to water down the impassioned, informed responses that can intimidate potential newbies. Next time geopolitics is discussed, the correct response is "I like kittens." Can't go wrong.

  55. So IDS wants us to start making things again. Hmm... did he say anything about proper apprenticeships and decent vocational training? No? thought not. It'll be as you say AB nailed to their benches- and as long there's enough room under those benches they won't have to worry about building any more social housing.

  56. @bth i cant find your photos's, where is the link?

  57. rapideddie, no, it was odder than that. Someone was very abusive to me, completely out of the blue (apparently, I'd once suggested he was sniping, about three months ago, but I hadn't interacted with the bloke since). He then tried to suggest I was picking on him. For some reason, despite the acknowledged fact I didn't actually engage in any personal abuse, I merely argued his points, I was slammed into premod. I still don't really know why. I'm out again now. My strategy was to carry on posting A LOT, which I think made me being in premod more hassle than it's worth. (I had a slow day, stuck at home with poorly small girl.)

    parallax, don't get me started on the commodification of spirituality... I'll rant all day long.

  58. btw AB - I watched a truly awful Danish film last night - although the premise was good. The gov had calculated that 20% of the people at the lower end of society used up over 60% of resources, ie in health care due to life style choices, crap food and booze for example, unemployment, disability and other state benefits etc - so they decided to exterminate them. If the individuals couldn't show that they had contributed more than they had taken out they got the captive bolt.

    Shame it was such a crap film - well made, it could have been a brilliant dystopian horror.

  59. this site might not be moderated, but some posts are definatly ignored... so whats the differance?

  60. Well as long as you're at liberty Meerk, that's the main thing. I came late to the Bidi Tosh For The Day thread, which kind of takes all of the goodness out of it, since the choicest responses have usually been deleted by then.

    What I can't understand is why someone as whip-smart and bright as a button as Bidi would need to start each of her BTL replies with "This is Bidisha." I would have thought the picture of Bidisha, next to the name 'Bidisha' and a big shiny blue 'C' sign would have given the game away. But then I suppose, as David Mitchell always counsels, you can't be too careful.

  61. @ meerkat what thread and comment were u premoderated from? the last pre0mod of your's lasted about ten minutes, so im sure(as before) it was a mistake,,, if not.. welcome to the real world of cencorship on CIF, although iam kinda intersted in what got you premoderated for ?

  62. I enjoyed those photos bitey. Our gallery goes a bit wonky sometimes. Unless theres an issue about accessing flickr from China?

  63. Sheff

    What was the name of the film?

    I saw the one you mentioned before, about the spacecraft landing in a South African-style township - Sector 9 [?] - and thought it was pretty good.

    I like films which don't quite work anyway.

    Failure is far more interesting than success.


    I may/may not be sending/forgetting to send you an email soon/at some point in the future/never about something which might/will/won't interest you/fill you with indifference/bore you to tears.

  64. of course dont feel obliged to reply... i do have an agenda to stick to...

  65. smtx, this isn't Meerk's first time in chokey. She's got previous. And she swore that after 3 years of listening to JayR's blues harmonica she was going straight. I had her tagged as a wrong un straight from the off.

    [/channelling The Sweeney]

  66. personally im more into jay z blue print 2, but as you like, here...were are u in ireland?, ive been in all the hotspots, kingscourt, co cavan,delvin, mullingar, ha ha. and belfast, although the taxi drivers on the falls rd are a fuken nitemare

  67. that was to eddie(above comment)

  68. @ rapid i thoughtthe last time meerkat got 'premodeated' it was a mistake' and lasted ten mins... do correct if im wrong, if not... fuken so what

  69. oh chokey. i looked it up... meaning prison? apparently meerkat was in 'chokey' prison in SA as well... ah words eh...

  70. ah moderation on cif eh, silencing on the untrusted is pretty fuken funny as well... good luck

  71. @rapid eddie, last time meerkat was 'premoderated # it lasted all of 10 mins and it was a 'mistake', the chokey ref, apparently about meerkat being flung in jail in south africa, which she wasnt,so wots ur point?

  72. AB

    Here it is: how to get rid of the others

    It starts off, briefly, quite well, then takes a dive and never recovers. Its probably a cult movie for some.

  73. @ sheff/ montana yea you silence so well, yet cant answer a single point.. just basically 'shut up' and 'fuk of' f u dont sing from the cock jokey UT site,by the way sheff, glad your ex(english husband) got back safe from egypt, your so transparent.. like the entire UT

  74. AB

    I look forward to receiving/or possibly not receiving, your missive.

  75. @sheff i always find the best way to 'get rid of others' is semtex , poss gelignite. never dynamite

  76. We've been through this before, smtx:

    a) There's no compulsion or obligation to reply to anything that's posted on the UT. You put it out there, sometimes it's picked up, sometimes not. My contributions over the last few days have largely gone unresponded to, for example. Now, it could be because they're not worth responding to, or it could be that they were so concise, cutting and intellectually watertight that there was nothing to add, and everyone was stunned into a kind of awed, reverential silence.
    My money's on the former, but, either way, I'm not stomping around like The Incredible Hulk on meth, am I?

    b) Precisely because you tend to go a bit, how can I put this, mardy, when people do respond to you, but not in the way you'd like, some are maybe a wee bit wary of engaging with you. As Lou Reed said, and possibly someone or other in the bible too, 'you're going to reap just what you sow', here as elsewhere!! And, then, finally;

    c) It might be a good idea to check you're not living in a greenhouse before you start lobbing certain rocks about!! I mean, didn't Spike ask you, several times, what your take on operation cast lead was?? Remind me again, have you answered that one yet??

  77. smtx - Just as we don't moderate no-one has to reply to every post. My posts are often not replied to its feels like your being ignored people probably do read them and then decide they have nothing to say in reply.

    You are not being picked on or treated differently to anyone else. Why on earth should you be?

    Perhaps people are having conversations with other people, perhaps they find your determinationation to believe that the whole world is against you a bit troubling and have found as I have that it is impossible to convince you that its just not true.

    You seem determined to only interpret people's posts negatively even when a real attempt is made to build a bridge of understanding.

    This is of course difficult on the net

    Also if people find what you say annoying they'll say so not because of what you are but because they don't like what you said.

    Its called freedom of speech.

  78. smtx

    What Anne and James said.

  79. Anne

    Were you pleased or otherwise with the yes vote here ?

    Very inconclusive in terms of what the majority wanted. Voting turnout very low - positive vote from something like 16-17% of everyone in Wales.

    Nect thing tax raising powers ?

  80. smtx

    "What Anne and James said"

    I was going to post summat similar but I couldn't be arsed!

  81. AB

    Quite a good piece on Werner Herzog in the groan today. The dark comedy of Werner Herzog In the paper version it is accompanied by a pic of Klaus Kinski trying to throttle him.

    Kinski attacking Herzog

  82. Leni I am pleased because it brings us closer to Scotland. It will speed some changes up. I can remember important and positive changes in Basic skills education being delayed for moths here because the change had to go to Westminster. Also its definitely less comfortable petitioning the current parliament than a Labour one although for all its faults the Welsh Labour Party is to the left of the one in England - not that that says much.

    The don't knows couldn't care care less's were the ones who actually won though.

    I do think that the leislative powers are especially important when we have a govt that is not Labour and the majority of Westminster MPs from Wales are def not Conservative.

    This is off course one answer to the 'West Lothian Question' - England is the largest country in the UK and so the Westminster government of the day is likely to be the one that England votes for.

  83. Arrrrrrggggghhhh!

    "delayed for months" (not moths LOL!)

  84. Good post Atomboy.There's a depressing predictability about what's going to happen.And with social mobility practically dead in this country and the welfare state on it's knees many working class people are nicely placed to become the serfs of the future.


    Sorry you're in pre mod again although as before it could be another mistake.If it is i'd sue the bastards for your 'pain and suffering'.Hope your mum is still on the mend:-)

  85. @james/ anna/ why not the answer the points i raised in response to bb, for example 13.07, what do you diasgree with? either from today or yesterday) its jusr getten slightly riddiculouys on here , i,e someone asks a question,I answer it and then a wave of ignorance, either ur school kids or you dont know the answers. @ sheff yea yea wotever someone else says, Zzzz, do you keep yourself up at night?

  86. @ paul, meerkat was put in pre mod(by mistake for half an hour a few months ago) she was out of it by the nextday, as im sure she'l be out of it by tommorow, if not, so fuken what? save ur faux anger

  87. you lot are so predictable it's pathetic, make accusations, then refuse to answer them, for example BB.. its pretty lame... anyway

  88. 'paul, sorry, i misread your last post' i would like to give you gil scot heron 'lady day '

  89. plastic people with plastic faces

  90. smtx01

    Faux anger?Moi?How dare you! :-)

  91. Bloody hell. I'm a mass of aches and pains.

    Having had virtually no exercise for the last three months or so because of illness, I got a text last night asking me to help with security on a long demo this afternoon. It was nominally a women's demo (men welcome) in solidarity with women in North Africa and the Middle East on the nearest weekend to Women's Day.

    We started from Trocadero and stopped outside the Iranian, Egyptian and Algerian embassies for speeches, chants and songs. Only the Egyptian embassy had agreed to receive a delegation, of course.

    Given the geography, we crossed the Champs-Elysées. That's the first time in over 30 years of demos that I've marched on the Champs (even though it was just for a minute) because they don't usually allow demos there.

    Anyway, despite feeling stiff and knackered, it's good to have got out and actually done something in solidarity, rather than staying in and posting.

    Now I've recovered a bit, I'll be going out for a daily walk again. I don't want to hold you up on the 26th.

  92. 'whatever 'he/she says'... fuken hell

  93. @ spike have you only recently stumbled across the human rights abuses that been occuring in north africa and the mid east recently? your sound a bit like the UN

  94. smtx01

    No worries!Here's that Gil Scott Heron track you mentioned.My personal favourite from him is 'The Bottle'.


  95. smtx

    Well, if you must know, I think to call your 13:07 a spectacular own goal would be somewhat of an understatement. You've gone done curled it right into the top corner, from about 60 yards.

    And in much the same vein, you've resonded to my points, by, erm, completely ignoring the main points, in favour of, bizarrely, going off on one about people not responding to your points!!

    So what's the etiquette, here smtx? Are we responding to points or not? How do you want to play it? Do you want to continue with this stompy, sulky, 'you have to respond to my points, but I'll be fucked if I'm responding to yours' tactic, or are you going to start playing by your own rules!?

    Because, chronologically, that'd be your take on Cast Lead first, right!?!?

  96. @paul i aint heard in the bottle for quite a few years, top tune though,

  97. @ james, i dont understand what your chatting about... i have on here on 3 occasions here answered posrers points, which points in particular are you diagreeing with? we can take it from there maybe( i belive the accusation was about Jewish Lobbys and the false cry of anti semitism', your take on it would be , well.. interesting, i dont remember cast lead in any of it...

  98. Anne

    i hope we made the right decision. the Assembly has , to me, been a disappointment.

    Very little economic development and top slicing education budgets are my 2 mani gripes.

    The creation of a 'meritocracy' within NHS governing bodies etc. is another downside. The more politicians we have the more of their cronies clump together and draw on funds.

    More power will not , I hope, lead to more highly paid policy makers and administrators.

    Only time will tell - hope the power doesn't rush to their heads.

  99. @ james, sorry my original post was in reply to montana 'aipac is evil'on the 4th at 17.00, all replies were since then.get back to me on that one and we'l take it from there, ok

  100. smtx01

    replacing 'Jew' in bb's comment with 'black' makes the statement equally valid.

    You could replace it with - men, women, ciffers UTers, lefties etc etc etc...

    No group of people behave in the same way, some behave well, some badly.To say all think the same is prejudiced (could be sexist racist etc depends on the group of people)

    Example - it is perfectly reasonable to say more men than women currently excel in mathematics.

    It is not acceptable to say an individual woman is no good at maths - that would be sexist.

    It is NOT patronising me to say that women are members of the human race its just true.

    Of course for centuries women were treated as though they were at best second rate humans, this was extreme prejudice and intolerable.

    Replace 'woman' with 'Jew' in the above 2 paragraphs.

    My statement was NOT meant to be patronising it was
    meant to indicate my opposition to the view held by anti semites that Jews are not human again extreme prejudice and completely intolerable.

    Prejudices of all sorts exist its not patronising to say that you oppose that prejudice and support the rights of the target of that prejudice.

    Having to argue like this with a presumably intelligent human being is exhausting and very annoying. Sorry if referring to you as human seems patronising in my mind its merely descriptive

    Frankly its beginning to look like trolling.

  101. Right, no-one's talking to me so I'm going to get very angry and rant incoherently.

    Nah. I'm going to lie on the sofa and shout at the contestants on the TV lottery game show.

  102. @ anne yea you can call me a troll if you like, to be honest i have heard better insults, obviously im not a troll mate, i actually believe what im sayen, but might be a much to get your wee welsh head around..(amongst others)

  103. bloody hell i miss cif(at least you get coherant responses on there/good/bad and ugly.).. shall we play a tune on here next, what is it habibs turn, wots the ettiquete again, sorry i forget

  104. @ 'but might be a much to get your wee welsh head around' is what i meant, but i could poss squeeze you and leni into the same headlock(at a push)

  105. Now Spike

    Don't get shirty.
    We don't all sit here waiting for the next post - we bob in and out while doing other things.

    Seriously - I am glad you are feeling better. It is good to be active in pursuit of something we believe in. You will need to build up to walking long distances - we quickly get out of practice.

  106. “Hey, I may loathe myself, but it has nothing to do with the fact that I'm Jewish.”

    – Larry David

  107. above to annatan(sorry) at least me caps aint locked... anyway

  108. you would have to give the individual woman a maths test before you could tell of course. :)

  109. smtx

    So what do you want me to respond to, exactly?

    Somebody had an opinion on something, you had a different opinion, I'm not involved in the conversation in any way, so you want what from me?

    Am I allowed to not have an opinion either way, or have one, and choose to keep it to myself, or are you saying that we should all jump in on any subject you feel is important? Again!!

    (The cast lead thing, as you seem to be a bit confused, was something that you, specifically, were asked your opinion on, several times, and, as of yet, have chosen not to respond to! So, you know, all that stuff about casting the first stone and whatnot....)

  110. @ bitterweed, where are you from by the way? or dont u wana say

  111. @ james, i answered spikes points about cast lead within minutes of being on here,(last week) but im sorry to break it to you, the subject yestrsday/today every fuken day is aipac, jewish lobbys and the false accusation of anti semitism that jews cry, you must be confused? no? maybe.... a little bit, u got anything to say answer the point i raised ... i know i know .. difficult init

  112. smtx01
    I'm an anglo currently residing in the Midlands. Why's that ?

  113. Who is this smtx chap?

    The simple truth of the matter is this: There has been the systematic exploitation of Palestinians and Bedouin under Israeli watch for 65 years (and longer under the British auspices before that).

    You can go on as much as you want to about the semantics of sentences and how you might interpret this to be revealing a trifling of imaginary anti-Semitism, it's all irrelevant. What is relevant is the systemic violence exercised by the Israeli state with the approval of a majority of Israeli citizens against Palestinians and Bedouin. Everything else is blah blah blah.

    I would also say that there cannot be any equivalence between the two sides; it makes historically speaking very little sense to simply say oh both sides are suffering, because it doesn't tell the story of systemic violence against Palestinians and Bedouin (with the connivance of external governments).

  114. Oh is it my turn? Dedicated, if nothing else... Committed? Ought to be.

  115. spike

    I'll talk to you. Brownie points for the stewarding. Got to keep yourself fit for the 26th. I didn't realise the Champs-Elysées was a demo free zone. Is that 'cos of all the tourists, expensive shops and huge pavement caffs round there? Or are they worried someone will deface the Arc de Triomphe

  116. @smtx10; so all your responses are coherent are they?
    Did you study at the Peter Bracken (Preposterous Hyperbole) school of debating?

    Here's how it works:

    1) you lob something contentious into the mix (anti-semitism is a safe bet)

    2) when people respond you deliberately mis-interpret what they have said and put some words into their mouths for good measure.

    3)when they respond by demolishing your argument you return with a strawman stretched tenuously to your original point.

    4)you go off in a sulk 'coz everyone ignores you.

    BTW; I'm not getting involved in bunfight about anti-semitism. No matter how reaasonable you attempt to be you just can't win.

    It resembles the logic of putting witches in barrels and lobbing them into rivers!

  117. In a nutshell Olching. Well said.

    Don't know who smtx is but they seem to have no friends and a grievance against someone/thing that they're taking out on us.

  118. Bitters

    We need to decide on a date for the Sheffield knees up.

  119. ha ha olching your fuken hilarious,where are u from ? denmark or somewhere? , at bitterweed, i asked cos most on here seem to be preoccupied with where i'm from, if your from the midlands, ive been to leister, and leister was great from what i remember, went up with aload of mates from oxford(british/indian/. i must say leister was the first place i ever saw a womean ina sari behind a bar, great mix of hindu/christian and muslims, and even a few jews, i enjoyed my time there

  120. smtx

    Firstly, I think you may be stretching a wee bit with the claim that the conversation here, everyday, has anything at all to do with aipac, Jewish lobbies, or even I/P in general. That's patently absurded, old chum!!

    Again, I may be confused, you're right, but didn't I just ask if I had to have an opinion, and, if so, how I'm supposed to know that I'm obliged to jump in with it in the middle of a conversation that doesn't involve me, and never has??!
    (And, If I don't have an opinion, or choose to keep it to myself, why is that such a big problem for you, anyway?)

    I mean, jeez, smtx, you're a bit demanding aren't you!? Again, and sorry to have to be the one to have to break this to you, the interwebz was not, last time I checked anyways, invented to serve, solely and without exception, the whims, fancies and demands of smtx!?

  121. @smtx, yeah, Leicester's ok, been to a few gigs there.
    Going back to watch Series 1 of The Wire now. See you all later...

  122. 'sheff, if you aint got nothen to say, dont be a fuckwit and just agree with random posters like olching, oh yea you are a fukwit that cant back up a single fuken thing, enjoy egpyt by the way hows your english ex?...did he get back OK? there was me thinking he was an egyptian... ha ha... UT eh... a larf a minute

  123. (*it was actually invented for porn, if anyone's interested!!)

  124. Bitters,

    Watch your back! When you walk through the garden, I mean!!


  125. @chekeckov i didnt bring up anti semitism, i responded to posters comments aout anti semitism and lobbys(obviously not the thing to do on here)

  126. Cheers, Leni!


    I think it's mainly because they don't like demos getting too close to the presidential Elysée Palace.

  127. fuken is misspelt.

    Fucking in a bucket!

    If you are Afrikaans you can say "fokken", I am sure you can spell it any way you like dependant on home language, but in English there is no such word as "fuken". it is FUCKING. Except maybe French, where there is not a word for fuck. Scheez, get it right!

    There is also no such word as "u", it's a letter, but it certainly is not a word.

    Jews has a capital letter "jewish lobby" should be Jewish lobby. jews should be Jews.

    Really this is not good enough smtx01, if you are going to insult people, at least get us pedants out of the way! (Dyslexic ones too!)

  128. @ meerkat yea i got that paul was joking, which is why i replied to him, cheers for pointing it out to me though , your a diamond.

  129. smtx

    I should have a kip if I were you.

    Here's a tune before I take off for the pub Way down in the hole

  130. oh fuk of tim buktoo and stick ur affriikana grammer up your hole

  131. @smtx:
    "last time meerkat was 'premoderated # it lasted all of 10 mins and it was a 'mistake', the chokey ref, apparently about meerkat being flung in jail in south africa, which she wasnt,so wots ur point?"

    Last time, it was just over three days, and ended as I mentioned when I wrote to Ms Harman.

    As for the SA jail issue, I'm not sure why you find this so hard to understand since I've explained it numerous times. I was arrested, and detained overnight. I've never at any point claimed any differently. During the time I was in the cell, I was beaten by police and sexually assaulted. I have, as I told you before, a scar on the back of my thigh, which is the last physical marker of the incident.

    I'm not sure it does in any way equate to the experience of being placed in premod, but it's good to see how well you understand the experience of detention - it's obviously an expression of your great concern for humanity that you see premod on a news website as somehow being the same.

    I do really appreciate you raising it repeatedly as if it were a relatively trivial experience. It wasn't. I think you may recall the last time you raised it, someone did point out to you that it really wasn't quite as inconsequential as you appear to imagine, since police brutality was a pretty regular occurrance in south african police cells.

    Detention is a frightening experience. Under the state of emergency, police were allowed to detain for a long period (at its peak it was up to 180 days, and they would let people walk and then detain them again).

    I was doing some work with former detainees in Westville Prison, after the regime fell. Some of them had been there as long as six months.

  132. @ sheff before you go...fuk u ... i know u played it like ur ex(old man) was an egyptian, but he was just another english man taking the doller who cried when the regime came tumbling down, enjoy egypt though mate.. maybe you'l enjoy it more this time... i have a feeling you will

  133. @smtx10; are you getting a bit squiffy?

    I try to refrain from posting when I've had too many sherberts. I usually wake up the next morning with a sense of foreboding that I might have made a complete tit of myself.

    BTW: before you mention it, I'm more than capable of making a tit of myself when I'm sober!

  134. " i know u played it like ur ex(old man) was an egyptian"

    Actually, no, she didn't, smtx. She made it very clear that her ex was an expat who worked in Egypt. I never had any illusion he was Egyptian. that you imagined so is not a reflection on sheff, but on you.

    You don't seem to do well on the comprehension thing, on nights like this.

  135. Oh wait, it's a 'sticky keys' thing, isn't it? Yeah. Right.

  136. "oh fuk of tim buktoo and stick ur affriikana grammer up your hole"

    I think you'll find that should read:

    "Oh fuck off timboktutu, and stick your Afrikaner grammar up your hold."

  137. "oh fuk of tim buktoo and stick ur affriikana grammer up your hole"

    Good try!

    it is actually

    "Oh fuck off timboktutu, and stick your Afrikaans grammar up your arse hole"

    (I'm not actually Afrikaans, I am Welsh!)

  138. I thought she was being crude Meerkatjie, but let's give her the benefit of the doubt.

  139. "Some of them had been there as long as six months."

    Sorry, I meant six years. Six years without trial.

    (and obviously in my last post, I meant hole, not hold!)

  140. Chekhov

    American Israel Public Affairs Committee!!

  141. @ meerkat ...i dont know anything much about your' pre mod' experiance meerkat,other than you were in and out of within a day. by the way it was bb who claimed you were 'banged up in prison', something you didnt deny at the time, turns out you were detained overnight, as you say it was awful, it sounds awful, i didnt read the rest of the stuff you wrote,but i agree being banged up overnight and assaulted is frightning, ive been there mate,(not sexually) just physically) except i wouldnt let it ride if someone inferred I had been imprisoned(as opposed to arrested overnight) ((maybe its cross wires meerkat/I was premoderated at the time.. so didnt read all of what you wrote ...im sure your other half will come riding in and explain it all to me. by the way, im sure you'l be out of premod by tomorrow. if not, welcome to the club,next thing you'l be banned just like me eh... except i shall be back cos i dont take no for an answer... anyway it's been nice...

  142. @James; thanks, a few more exclamation marks might have been appropriate...err, no actually that could be mis-construed as anti-se...oh bugger I'm not going there!

  143. Wow, spike! That's really awesome! Thanks for sharing.

    I wish I could pretend to be a 'radical' and try to impress the other middle-class wannabe revoultionaries on this thread with my crazy anti-establishment behaviour on the Champs Elyssee.

    PS I hope sheffpixie doesn't get shot in the face by a teargas canister while she's on holiday in Egypt (checking out the revolution). That would be a bit too real, and terribly unfair. It's only a holiday, FFS.

    Incidentally, spike - have you ever considered that you appear to be the mirror image of your old nemesis brusselsexpats? You're both vacuous, your politics are equally simplistic and nonsensical, you both haunt waddya like addicts, and you both feel the need to project your supposed 'real lives' onto an unsuspecting and uncaring public.

    Oh, and you both went to private/public schools paid for by your very wealthy parents?

    You two should get married. And then shut the fuck up.

  144. "by the way it was bb who claimed you were 'banged up in prison', something you didnt deny at the time, turns out you were detained overnight, as you say it was awful"

    i don't think you're really grasping that the two are relatively indistinguishable in the SA context.

    I also think I pointed out to you at the time that I hadn't, in fact, seen BB's reference, so didn't so much 'let it ride' as 'completely fail to read it'.

    And as I've said before, I can't quite grasp why you are so incredibly preoccupied by the incident.

    I'm sorry if my suffering wasn't sufficient for you, SMTX. Next time I'm arrested in a brutal dictatorship, I'll do my best to really make sure it sticks, to ensure that I meet your stringent standards for having really suffered for my cause.

    Or not....

  145. @heckov,' What aipac'... fuken hell why dont ya google aipac, bloody hell theyve been on about it on here for 3 days... whats the point in haven a discussion if you dont know what aipac or the inferance of 'The lobby' means i give up

  146. chekhov
    "I usually wake up the next morning with a sense of foreboding that I might have made a complete tit of myself."

    You too? Unfortunately, that feeling's been going on for more than two decades, now, feels a bit strange when I don't wake up that way, to be honest.

  147. Here's a classic from HAROLD MELVIN. The words apply as much if not more for todays times as they did when this song was first released.

  148. "Wow, spike! That's really awesome! Thanks for sharing."

    Oh, do fuck off, badpenny.

    Spike, sorry, reading up thread. Good to hear you're on the mend. Hope you're all better soon. x

  149. Hello MsChin; just noticed you snuck in under the radar there. Was that to avoid clearing the thread?!

  150. Yea meerkat... next time im unlawfully dragged out of bed at One on the morning...by ten armed men weilding machine guns and 5 sniffer dogs in my face, thrown on the floor and arrested under the prevention of terrorism act for being an irish terroist, hit around the head with a gun,sustaining bruises and a black eyes, next time i have my passport taken away for 5 years, ill be sure to bang on about it too.. ok mate

  151. I quite like "fucken" personally.

  152. @heckov,' What aipac'... fuken hell why dont ya google aipac, bloody hell theyve been on about it on here for 3 days... whats the point in haven a discussion if you dont know what aipac or the inferance of 'The lobby' means i give up

    Err, well 'coz I said I don't get involved in "I/P" shit.

    Do you actually read the responses on here or do you just make them up in your imagination?

  153. lol Spike, you've got one too! :)

  154. "ill be sure to bang on about it too.. ok mate"

    I mentioned it once, in context, smtx. You have raised it ad nauseam. Perhaps you could just let it lie now, eh? I don't particularly like talking about it, for obvious reasons.

  155. "Oh, do fuck off, badpenny."

    Please let me stay, meerkatje. I've also got 'victim' stories to justify my anodyne liberal hypocritical views - I'm just too shy and traumatized to spread them all over the internet - I wish I was more like you in that respect. You know, egotistic and self-obsessed enough to spin bullshit on the web just so that total strangers will like and admire me, and I will feel better about myself.

    PS How do you feel about smtx01's personal experience of a 'police state', given that he appears to be a NI Catholic and you were a white South African? Can you sympathize, can you relate to his experience? Do you think that it is the exactly same being a member of the minority white ruling class (SA) and enjoying all those advantages and priveleges (but at the same time sympathizing with the oppressed second class citizens who clean your pool) as is it is to be a member of the oppressed minority (black in SA or Catholic in NI) and being arrested and beaten up as a matter of course? I think you should take smtx01's comments a little more seriously and try not to come across as such a patronising snob.

    In fact, you make me sick.

  156. Anyway, enough already; when is the next piss up and where? Procrastination should be reserved for work not pleasure!

  157. penny

    I believe smtx is Morrocan / Russian, definitely not Irish.

    Think I'll go back to ebay ... I'm watching watching a vintage item with a seeriously rocketing price. And I have one exactly the same.

  158. Badpenny, he's a she, you stupid twat.

    "meerkatje. I've also got 'victim' stories to justify my anodyne liberal hypocritical views "

    How nice for you. But how do you justify being an utterly stupid, hypocritcally, nasty cunt?

    Or do you think having a go at someone who's ill, about being ill, is somehow funny?

    Do run along.

  159. the delightful Ms Smtx talks a great talk penny, but is not from either place.

    But she's got you, hook, line and stinker. Bless.

  160. i am jewish, but the arrest, was because they thought |I was irish. so bad penny was right in that context.

  161. it's a case of soort soek soort, I think.

  162. Meerkatjie, I apologise for my levity in between your posts, I meant no offence by it. I try not to pay too much attention to those coming onto this thread looking for a fight.

    Guess what? I fail every time.

  163. habib, shweeet.
    chekhov - sheffield ? we need to sort summink. back later, got the Wire on. JD knows what that's all about. feel me ?

  164. Habib, seriously, don't worry. Your posts are completely appropriate. (If anything mine are out of place, and I should know better than to rise to the bait of idiot trolls.)

  165. @ timboktu ' ms smtx talks a greaat talk penny , but is not from either place ' @ timbukto i'm from london, my herritage is morrocon.russian, OK ...but i was arrested on suspision of terrorirism, I was knocked out for being irish...dont let that get in the way of your preconcieved hate , i wouldnt worry, about it timboktu i had a great lawyer, john wadham. and i fuken took the metroplotian police to court,
    so bad penny was quite right.

  166. badpenny,
    "You know, egotistic and self-obsessed enough to spin bullshit on the web just so that total strangers will like and admire me, and I will feel better about myself."

    That's a really shit-headed thing to say, unless, of course you know that someone was making up something.

    Do you know that?

    "In fact, you make me sick."


  167. Out of interest, why did they think you were Irish, smtx?

  168. My very wealthy parents? :-)

    As you seem to have been hanging obsessively on my every word, badpenny, I'd have thought you'd have seen me mentioning my mother taking in lodgers when my father finally fucked off. Rich as Croesus, us.

    You're a bit shit at trying to wind people up, aren't you, badpenny? A sort of sub-standard, imitation bitey.

    he appears to be a NI Catholic

    Heheh. What, smtx the Jewish woman? Fuck me, you're unfeasibly thick, aren't you?

  169. 'meerkat 'out of interste why did think you were irish'..
    umm long story mate, but in reality the PTA and their armed goons arnt that clued up.
    sorry to dissapoint love

  170. Yo, thanks for that Paul at 16.46. I agree with whzt you say, there are social groups et al which are easily attendable, and this morning I went jogging for the first time in ages.

    Sorry for late reply, after getting back from seeing Steve Bell then having tea I fell asleep.

  171. @Meerkatjie

    Sorry, got distracted. Yeah, I'm much better thanks.

  172. by the way, i gave a talk to amnesty international with paddy hill, i did video films for schools and colleges with Liberty, i spoke in the houses of paliment about the PTA and the miscarriages of Justice, i was in an phoblacht, the guardian,the independent and just about every other paper, i gav einterviews on TV and I did it all to highlight the injustices of the PTA.. so dont tell me anything about anything... ok UT

  173. "umm long story mate, but in reality the PTA and their armed goons arnt that clued up.
    sorry to dissapoint love"
    Not disappointed. I am interested, though, in the long story.

  174. Here's a classic from Willie Hutch for all the UT Northern Soul Fans.(and that includes you Hank)

  175. @ spike your unfeasibly thick to my mind(cant think outside of the box can you)

  176. i mean ffs why dya think me names semtex?

  177. No worries charlie.Glad you're feeling a bit more upbeat.I saw your post on waddya .Made me laugh.

  178. It's a fantasy.


    Yeah smtxsnot,hate. I am very republican.

    On threads I have learnt very early to spot those who have, versus those who "say" they have.

    For one I think smtx would like to have been, rather than has been. Sad, but those of us who bled a little can spot those who have a fantasy, a "fokken" noise about it, a mile off. smtx01 is a delusional idjit, much like penny who hasn't got a clue about anything. Fantasy.

    It's sad, but, it also takes away from those who have.

  179. There was a delegation from my favourite Life of Brian type party at the demo today:

    The Marxist-Leninist Revolutionary Organisation (Proletarian Path)

    Wonder if badpenny's a member?

  180. Actually, a Jew, suspected of being an irish terrroist, arrested under the PTA by 10 armed officers in motorbike helmets, complete with sniffer dogs, bashed around the head, dragged to a cell in the wee hours of the night and arrested with bombing harrods and possesion of semtex has got to be up there somewhere...Thank goodness for Liberty(not evertrhing is black and white eh)

  181. You're surely not challenging the well known Jewish-Irish-Morroccan-Russian terrorist problem, Tim? Such cynicism in one so young!

  182. oh fuck off timbukto,... 'I am a delusional idiot'... wana back that up?

  183. Anyway, goodnight and sweet dreams to all those who deserve them, I'm off to bed.

  184. you calling me young Meerkatjie?

  185. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/video-filmed-ira-bombers-at-harrods-pair-part-of-indiscriminate-campaign-1369858.html

    Middle aged Englishmen?

    Or was it a different incident, smtx?