08 March 2011

08/03/11

As spring the winter doth succeed

May 13, 1657.
As spring the winter doth succeed,
And leaues the naked Trees doe dresse,
The earth all black is cloth'd in green;
At svn-shine each their joy expresse.
My Svns returned with healing wings.
My Soul and Body doth rejoice;
My heart exvlts, and praises sings
To him that heard my wailing Voice.
My winters past, my stormes are gone,
And former clowdes seem now all fled;
But, if they mvst eclipse again,
I'le rvn where I was succoured.
I haue a shelter from the storm,
A shadow from the fainting heat;
I haue accesse vnto his Throne,
Who is a God so wondrous great.
O hast thou made my Pilgrimage
Thvs pleasant, fair, and good;
Bless'd me in Youth and elder Age,
My Baca made a springing flood?
I studiovs am what I shall doe,
To show my Duty with delight;
All I can giue is but thine own,
And at the most a simple mite.

-Anne Bradstreet

236 comments:

  1. If you haven't checked out the Disqus comment system on UT2, please do. So far, I'm liking it. No need to do a link -- URLs are automatically converted to links and links to videos or photos have a little preview at the bottom of the comment which, when clicked on, will open in a little pop-up window and videos can be watched without going to YouTube.

    There's also quite a bit more HTML formatting available, including superscript, subscript, titling, strikethrough and underlining.

    ReplyDelete
  2. Anne Bradstreet. Another woman cruelly marginalized by The Patriarchy. Come out and show yourselves, you bastards with your dangling equipment!

    And was Anne Bradstreet invited onto Desert Island Dicks? Was she fuck.

    ReplyDelete
  3. It's a mafia of man-bits! A confederacy of cocks!

    ReplyDelete
  4. @Eddie:

    On today. Of all days.

    Happy International Women’s Day, ladies. Trust you’re all wearing your best frocks in honour of the occasion?

    ReplyDelete
  5. Feeling a bit beleaguered this morning Eddie?

    Here's a little poem just for you:

    Neo-Thomist Poem

    The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not
    want him for long.

    Ernest Hemingway

    ReplyDelete
  6. Another informative piece on real economics from Dean Baker - well worth a read

    30 years ago some on the left hoped/dreamed for a reduced working week as the benefits of the new digital/technology worked its magical way through the economy.

    Not all of of our (often tedious) manufacturing jobs were lost to the East....a lot were earmarked for the bin because of the advances of new technology/productivity gains.

    Sadly the growth in wealth associated with productivity/efficiency gains has (as Baker observes) quietly gone into the pockets of the wealthy......

    Public understanding of the mechanics of the "economic cake",both production and its distribution, 'twixt capital and labour is woefully inadequate. Sadly it was mostly ever thus, but it doesn't seem to get any better despite record numbers of graduates......

    The educative/informative role of newspapers (and other media), as many here have observed, leaves much to be desired..........

    ReplyDelete
  7. Enough of the depressing thoughts................'tis a beautifully sunny spring day here in Yorkshire and I'm away to walk me dogs.....I might do some cussing and spitting whilst I'm out though.

    ReplyDelete
  8. Paul said... Leni/Alisdair/Princess

    "Arec from WADDYA has posted a link toTHIS GUARDIAN ARTICLE about a Parliamentary Committee looking for feedback from disability benefit claimants in Burnley who've been affected by the pilot for ESA that's been taking place there since last October.

    Dunno about you but i get a sense that this is simply an exercise in going through the motions for the sake of appearances.Especially as the process starting the nationwide migration from IB to ESA started a week ago.And note the article wasn't open to comments ."
    08 March, 2011 02:16

    ------------------------------------------------
    Morning all, a bit of quote from the article to recommend it to you, + link or 2, and must run --

    "MPs on the work and pensions select committee were in Burnley on Monday listening to the views of benefit claimants who have been part of a pilot for a new test designed to filter those people able to work from those who are too sick or disabled to do so.

    If they expected positive accounts they will have been disappointed. Speaker after speaker at the public meeting at Burnley football club gave negative accounts of their experience of being tested for eligibility for the new employment support allowance, the replacement for incapacity benefit, which is to be introduced nationwide from the start of next month"
    ....
    "The chair, Dame Anne Begg (Labour, Aberdeen South), said this was the first time in her nine years on the committee that MPs had ventured out and talked to real people. "We should do this kind of thing more," she said. (Jesus wept......................)

    Afterwards she said she was concerned about the speed with which the reform was being pushed through: "Personally, I see there are serious problem with the WCA. My view is that either they should be slowing down the national rollout or speeding up the implementations of changes to the system.""

    WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW

    More on the same theme from the House of Lords --

    " There is still a slim chance that the harsh new work capability assessment, due to come into force on 28 March, will be struck down. The House of Lords’ Merits of Statutory Instruments Committee has raised the alarm about the new WCA, warning that ‘there are serious concerns about the effect on already vulnerable people’ if the new test is introduced."

    LINK to HoL attack on WCA .

    wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

    So, there does seem to be some more 'awakening' on WCA.

    MP's " venturing out and talking to real people"-- amazing stuff indeed.

    Arec's blog.

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  9. Elephants know how to cooperate!

    If only more humans did.

    Arec's blog provided an interesting read. Cheers frog2/Paul

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  10. Sheff and Swift, I am not beleaguered but inspired. Today, I shall be joining my sisters in picking up the sword of justice to scythe down the monstrous regiments of priapic chauvinists.

    I have inexhaustible energy, italic HTML code and exclamation marks to achieve my aims!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@&bgcck*!!!!

    Failing that, I shall storm the next GMG Board penis-fest and paint Alan Rusbridger's bell-end blue at his shameless failure to offer lolpenz the position of chief political correspondent and culture tzarina.

    ReplyDelete
  11. @Eddie:

    I’m not convinced you’re taking Ladies’ Day entirely seriously, to be honest. It’s a different story chez nous, as you would expect, I hope – the little lady has given whats-‘er-name, you know, “the help”, the day off today, in honour of the occasion.

    We had to stop her wages for the day though, but fair’s fair, if she’s not sluicing the bogs and looking after Hugo and Jocasta, she’s hardly earning her keep, is she?

    I’m not made of bloody money, after all.

    ReplyDelete
  12. frog2

    "The chair, Dame Anne Begg (Labour, Aberdeen South), said this was the first time in her nine years on the committee that MPs had ventured out and talked to real people. "We should do this kind of thing more," she said.

    I read an article about Question Time some months ago.

    It seems that before they go on, many MPs are queasy, nauseous and having a series of minor panic-attacks. They sweat and shake and have to keep visiting the lavatory. They are in constant, desperate touch with their minders by text.

    Basically, they are in meltdown.

    What could possibly cause this?

    Apparently, for most of them, it is the first time they have had to confront real, large-as-life people in close proximity, who may not think politicians are wonderful.

    These are the shitdribbles we keep electing.

    ReplyDelete
  13. Morning all... just a brief drive-by....beautiful day here to, so off to the park for a stomp around.

    :)

    ReplyDelete
  14. I am not beleaguered but inspired. Today, I shall be joining my sisters in picking up the sword of justice to scythe down the monstrous regiments of priapic chauvinists.

    Please leave us one or two to play with Eddie. Unfortunately I can't join my sisters at the Maenads feast as I'm off to the west country for work - but gorgeous day so am not down hearted and you never know what might emerge from the Cotswold woodlands...

    ReplyDelete
  15. Ab/Frog

    It seems that before they go on, many MPs are queasy, nauseous and having a series of minor panic-attacks. They sweat and shake and have to keep visiting the lavatory. They are in constant, desperate touch with their minders by text.

    All except of course for the beautific Michael Gove.... tranked up to the eyeballs on Mogadon....

    K am going, back later!

    ReplyDelete
  16. "The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not
    want him for long."

    Superb quote, Sheff! Happy international women's day, everyone.

    Q1: who said this: "One cannot be always laughing at a man without now and then stumbling on something witty."?

    Q2: and who said: "The only consolation I can find in your immediate presence is your ultimate absence"?

    ReplyDelete
  17. Dont google, the first quote was Jane Austen, the second, Shelagh Delaney.

    ReplyDelete
  18. @LaRit

    just a brief drive-by

    I now have the image of you at the wheel of a pimpmobile, Glock in hand.

    * * *

    Happy Women's Day, ladies!

    As a treat, we'll do the washing up tonight, but I'm afraid those shirts aren't going to iron themselves.

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  19. Morning all

    Comment Is F&cked...

    "Sorry, commenting is not available at this time. Please try again later."

    ReplyDelete
  20. In "No Fucking Shit Sherlock!" news:

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2011/03/08/duchess-of-york-fergie-says-sorry-for-taking-paedo-s-money-115875-22973753/

    Duchess of York, Fergie, says sorry for taking paedo's money


    THE Duchess of York yesterday apologised for taking money from convicted paedophile Jeffrey Epstein and admitted her ex-husband had made “errors of judgment”.


    Apparently, everything which royalty and other people's money can bring does not include a cure for being as thick as pig-shit.

    In "Riot, Riot, Riot In The Streets" news:

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/8367948/Police-officers-attack-ministers-who-have-never-had-to-pay-a-mortgage-for-cutting-front-line-salaries.html

    Police officers attack ministers 'who have never had to pay a mortgage' for cutting front line salaries

    Police officers have attacked ministers over plans to reduce their pay, saying that "out of touch" ministers who have never had a mortgage "don't understand what it is to live on a budget".


    "For some officers, this is a massive cut. I know some of the Government have never had to pay a mortgage, so they don't understand what it is to live on a budget, but for many officers it is going to mean them losing their homes or not being able to put the heating on.

    "That is the reality for people out there and they are very angry and upset about a Government that is out of touch and doesn't understand policing."

    ................

    Summer of Discontent, anyone?

    ReplyDelete
  21. Dotterel

    They'll fix that one quickly.

    They cannot afford to turn off the taps of free content.

    If there are any problems, get JezzaBella to drop a note to Brusselssixpacks.

    She'll be happy to pay for any necessary upgrades, as long as she gets a platform to demonstrate that being superficial does not prevent you from being thick.

    ReplyDelete
  22. Swift - I'm *presenting* as a woman today in solidarity. Good to see third world suffering used to further such worthy pursuits as Corston, "creche facilities for city lawyers" and Biddy's wank of the day.

    Eddie, has Montana got your email address?

    And has MF been about lately?

    ReplyDelete
  23. AB

    They already have. I'm just rubbernecking at the car crash that is IWD meets CIF!

    ReplyDelete
  24. @Jay:

    Good man, I knew I could count on you. I’ve been struggling to think of anything I can do to celebrate the day, bar making a nice cup of tea for my colleagues Jenny and Karen, which I've done, so any ideas from the girls on here would be most welcome.

    Oh, just one caveat, ladies – practical suggestions, please. I don’t think Teh Patriarchy will fit if you tell me to stick it up my arse.

    ReplyDelete
  25. "Good man, I knew I could count on you."

    That speaks volumes, swifty.

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  26. 'Happy International Womens Day' everyone.

    Should anyone be interested Cherie Blair is allegedly flogging signed photographs of herself on e-bay to mark the occasion.

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  27. Paul,

    Don't suppose they're the right size to fit on the face of a guy (or "girl" I suppose!) made of old clothes and stuffed with straw....

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  28. Well, they had Thatcher on the front page some time last night, now replaced. Coz Thatcher was a feminist, innit.

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  29. International Women's day - well its still needed to remind us of the dreadful lives so many women have worldwide.

    And in this country as yesterday's posts about slavery showed.

    Of course we shall continue to celebrate the day (but no bank holiday I note) but the 1st of May(the day long adopted as the day for the whole working class), and its pale shadow the May bank holiday are ignored.

    We're all in it together Dave is keen to remove May bank holiday and replace it with ...

    wait for it...

    Trafalgar Day!!!!!!


    Says it all really!

    ReplyDelete
  30. Sure I posted this before its probably been spambinned!

    But here goes -
    Please sign the petition against the closeure of the Driving Standards agency in Cardiff.

    www.petitionbuzz.com/petitions/cardiffdsa

    Thanks

    ReplyDelete
  31. "International Women's day - well its still needed to remind us of the dreadful lives so many women have worldwide."

    Agreed - just a shame to see people piggybacking on it for their domestic trivia which frankly doesn't even compare to what goes on to women in much of the world. The Selma James article was quite interesting, and another good (in places) piece by Gupta at openDemocracy about Southall Black Sisters (amongst other things).

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  32. Yes, sorry for forgetting to wish all teh wimminz a happy [insert whatever it is called here when you can remember it] Day.

    I hope it is making you all feel squirmy with empowerment.

    annetan

    We're all in it together Dave is keen to remove May bank holiday and replace it with ...

    wait for it...

    Trafalgar Day!!!!!


    Why does that feel like someone deciding to abolish The Bash Street Kids Day and bring in Lord Snooty and his Pals Day?

    ReplyDelete
  33. People might be interested in reading THIS STORY from tonights London Evening Standard.Apparently British Special Forces have been involved in a botched mission in Libya and William Hague is being called to account.

    @Dotterel

    I think the best place for such a photograph would be a dart board.:-)

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  34. AB because that's what it is?

    Love the reference to Dave and co as 'Lord Snooty and his pals!" :D

    Its just soooooooooooo appropruate!

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  35. Jay re: IWD

    just a shame to see people piggybacking on it for their domestic trivia

    Quite

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  36. Actually the bungled Libyan mission is yesterdays news so you've probably all heard about it.First time i've heard about it though!

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  37. @habib:

    ”...That speaks volumes, swifty...”

    Thanks. It was meant to.

    @Anne:

    ”...Trafalgar Day...”

    I saw that the other day. Stupid bloody idea.

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  38. I didn't even know it was International Women's Day -- the choice of poet was pure coincidence.

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  39. "I didn't even know it was International Women's Day"

    Misogynist.

    ReplyDelete
  40. You mean you picked her purely on merit Montana?!?!?!


    What a radical concept ;-)

    ReplyDelete
  41. A male colleague brought in some flowers today for all the women in the office for IWD

    Caring soul or patronising misogynist b*stard, discuss?

    ReplyDelete
  42. @Montana

    Now if you'd known it was IWD you might have considered a poem from this wonderful woman.

    ReplyDelete
  43. Israel may request an addition $20 billion in military aid from the United States in light of the unrest sweeping the Arab world, Defense Minister Ehud Barak told The Wall Street Journal in an interview published Monday.

    Barak deemed the changes in the region a "movement in the right direction", and said that in the long run, Israel should not fear the "movement of Arab societies toward modernity."

    But in the more immediate future, he told the WSJ, Israel would have to contend with the fact that Iran and Syria "might be the last to feel the heat" and join the trend of unrest.
    ------------------
    The above from Haaretz.

    Has US got 20 billion ? Barak is asking for it over an extended period but neverthless it's a helluva lot of money when US citizens are going hungry. The build of of arms in the region is alarming - to say the least.

    Barak also said Netanyahu is to offer a Palestinian state 'within temporary borders@

    This , I assume, is because Israel has not idea at all about what to do with the settlers.

    I don't want this to become an I/P thread - more about arms sales in the region - we are arming Kuwait and KSA - everyone has sales men - and buyers - in the region.

    ReplyDelete
  44. Paul + froggie

    The Anne Begg remark beggars belief - but accurately reflects a major problem. The insulation of MPs from the results of their policies.

    I am emailing the Jessica to ask for a piece by Anne Begg on this.

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  45. Leni 14.03 --good for you. I think 'we' can make that Anne Begg quote run.

    Some time back I marvelled at one Hospital Scandal, that the local MP's didn't just walk through the doors and take a few pix with digital cameras, and THEN ask the questions in Parliament or noisily take it to the Press...

    Interesting Q to ask oneself, and them, WHY didn't they?

    Just finished tooling up the frogmobile, so now off to do the lawns, hedges, patios, flowerbeds, of very 'comfortably-retired' secondhome owners.

    But, being active I'm fitter than them even while still convalescing, so HEHE !

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  46. There are some thoroughly nasty pieces of work on the Bounoua "Marine Le Pen" thread. Nazi apologists, Wilders supporters if you're around, Duke...

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  47. A poem for international Women's day


    Pretty women wonder where my secret lies.
    I'm not cute or built to suit a fashion model's size
    But when I start to tell them,
    They think I'm telling lies.
    I say,
    It's in the reach of my arms
    The span of my hips,
    The stride of my step,
    The curl of my lips.
    I'm a woman
    Phenomenally.
    Phenomenal woman,
    That's me.

    I walk into a room
    Just as cool as you please,
    And to a man,
    The fellows stand or
    Fall down on their knees.
    Then they swarm around me,
    A hive of honey bees.
    I say,
    It's the fire in my eyes,
    And the flash of my teeth,
    The swing in my waist,
    And the joy in my feet.
    I'm a woman
    Phenomenally.
    Phenomenal woman,
    That's me.

    Men themselves have wondered
    What they see in me.
    They try so much
    But they can't touch
    My inner mystery.
    When I try to show them
    They say they still can't see.
    I say,
    It's in the arch of my back,
    The sun of my smile,
    The ride of my breasts,
    The grace of my style.
    I'm a woman

    Phenomenally.
    Phenomenal woman,
    That's me.

    Now you understand
    Just why my head's not bowed.
    I don't shout or jump about
    Or have to talk real loud.
    When you see me passing
    It ought to make you proud.
    I say,
    It's in the click of my heels,
    The bend of my hair,
    the palm of my hand,
    The need of my care,
    'Cause I'm a woman
    Phenomenally.
    Phenomenal woman,
    That's me.

    Maya Angelou

    ReplyDelete
  48. Anne

    Here's Maya Angelou reading Phenomenal Woman - which she quite unequivocally is!

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  49. Anne/Sheff - reminds me of a Nina Simone song, but I can't remember the name of it at the mo.

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  50. AtomBoy:

    Re; the 'beautific (joke) Michael Gove....

    I was thinking more like THIS.....

    Spike:

    Re: the Le Pen thread..... I'll do a 'special drive-by' in the pimp-mobile in a minute!!!

    ReplyDelete
  51. Maya Angelou may or may not be a phenomenal woman, but that's a terrible poem.

    ReplyDelete
  52. that's a terrible poem.

    Not when she's reading it Peter.

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  53. Paul:

    The 'bungled' Libyan mission? I'm still trying to get over how clueless (I'm personally endorsing this mission chaps) Cameron actually is... were they looking for 'anti-Gadaffi leaders' to sell guns to or something....??

    ReplyDelete
  54. @Hi LaRit

    Long time no see!Hope all's good with you :-)

    Redarding the Libyan mission i've no idea what the objective was supposed to be.Although for all the good it's done they might as well have sent in Dads Army.

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  55. LaRit

    I wouldn't look at the Le Pen thread were I you - it will bring on apoplexy.

    Paul

    Our boys were in Libya to show solidarity with the down trodden - how can you suspect otherwise ? Arms trading ? - Piffle.

    ReplyDelete
  56. @Sheff

    Yes it is. Not as terrible as the one she read at Clinton's inauguration, but still very poor.

    ReplyDelete
  57. Dott:

    Re: The flowers for the lay-deeeeze in the office.... it's not 'Mother's Day'... but it's not his fault - he is a bloke aferall ;)

    ReplyDelete
  58. PJ

    I may not know much about poetry but as a piece of writing I cannot to tell you how it makes this woman feel.

    I here it and I can forget I'm 68 and a bit too tubby for my liking - I feel well phenomenal really and thats just the start of it

    Just reading it makes me hold my head up high!

    That woman is phenomenal she makes me feel proud damnit!

    ReplyDelete
  59. Leni:

    Am already in pre-mod, so perhaps best to give it a wide berth.....I'm off the fags - cold-turkey... certainly don't want to let an apoplexy or 5 get me back on the damn things!

    ReplyDelete
  60. .... but then, Spike has armed me with a cyber Glock - what could possibly go wrong (lol) x

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  61. PJ would you like to explain why its terrible> Its a very effective piece of writing judging by the effect it has on me and many others.

    What arcane rule of Eng Lit does it break pray? Don't you just mean you don't like it? Saying its terrible sort of implies I'm stupid to like it. Its a put down, saying you don't like it would be a matter of taste and that's fair enough.

    ReplyDelete
  62. @Anne

    If it makes you feel good, then good. It sets my teeth on edge, and not because I'm a misogynist.

    ReplyDelete
  63. Hiya Paul....

    Yes, been more than a bit intermittent of late and now back in pre-mod and thinking of disabling my CiF account.

    The bit that also got me was it was as if they thought "oh goody, look we can save a bit of face and look like the 'big boys' by suggesting a 'no-fly zone' without actually understanding what dangerous implications it would have, so if we do a covert SAS mission..." etc....

    not realising that they could have just sailed into one of the major ports in broad daylight and been met by a Diplomat!

    This just proves that the Lord Snooty's Brigade (cheers for that Atom) really do not have a clue about global Politics. Fucking dangerous....

    ReplyDelete
  64. PJ so you don't like it - that's cool!

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  65. LaRit

    can't help thinking there was something very underhand about the SAS fiasco - the 'diplomats' could have walked across the Egyptian border after making arrangements to meet rebel leaders.

    Very odd - typical of young Willie to make what an old friend of mine call a 'cod's gob' of it.

    ReplyDelete
  66. La Rit quite agree stay calm, I'm told deep breathing helps if you start to crave.

    Good luck from someone who kicked the fags 25 years ago.

    It can be done!

    ReplyDelete
  67. @Anne

    No, I don't like it, and I think I have good reasons for not liking it. But like any other piece of writing, if it finds an emotional response in an audience, then I don't have a problem with that. I had no intention of being demeaning.

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  68. I remember the old days when everybody would piss off about this time and let me play some songs...

    Speaking of which, PeterJ, I have played a thousand lousy songs and listened to many I didn't like.

    I don't know if it's my imagination, but there has always seemed to be an agreement that if you didn't like something, you kept quiet or said "It's not for me".

    I'm not trying to censure you here, Peter, just saying that some things can mean a lot to people and we should maybe allow a bit of leeway.

    And I don't think you would ever be demeaning to anybody, in fact I should borrow a leaf from your book.

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  69. Interesting how lawful protest is suddenly acceptable in some quarters...

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  70. Annetan, to be fair to PeterJ, too, that poem's not for me either... seems a bit rhyming dictionary produced.

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  71. ...a case of 'Policeman, kettle yourself' perhaps...

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  72. shaz

    I read the bit about the police demo against pay cuts - where can we volunteer to 'manage the demo' and as good citizens practice our kettling skills ?

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  73. Heheh! Now why don't the police join the protest on the 26th? That would be fun.

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  74. "Policeman, kettle yourself"

    Brilliant!

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  75. Shaz

    I now have a picture of bobbies turning themselves inside out en masse. Not a pretty thought.

    Will they march in uniform - with numbers removed - I wonder. Or possibly in full riot gear ?

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  76. Evening all.

    Hi speedy! Where've you been hiding?

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  77. @habib

    You're right. I shall keep my literary criticism to myself in future.

    I blame the reflex on having to help a daughter through an English degree and a friend's daughter with A Level coursework on Othello and Arthur Miller.

    But while I'm here, could I add that Harold Pinter's 'poetry' is an offence to poets everywhere? Thank you.

    ReplyDelete
  78. No, no PeterJ, just saying what you know, some stuff means a lot to some people and they don't put it up here as anything more than a feeling.

    (Well, I don't anyway.)

    You go ahead with any criticism you see fit to make.

    On a side note, I really can't see how anybody could ever feel any sympathy for Iago.

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  79. Or for Othello, murdering bastard!

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  80. @habib

    Oh, I don't know. Iago is pretty cool, in a Samuel L Jackson way, until he collapses in the final scene. However, I introduced the patient to my theory that Othello is a pathetic figure rather than a tragic hero, which should screw up her marks substantially.

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  81. Or indeed

    Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

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  82. @Spike

    Well, it's either Sam Vimes or the Watchmen.

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  83. "I introduced the patient to my theory that Othello is a pathetic figure rather than a tragic hero, which should screw up her marks substantially."

    Ha ha! Aye, you can't be singing off a different hymn sheet until a few years after you get a PhD.

    ReplyDelete
  84. Article on pensions has some prize comments.

    The worst so far is 'You should have saved more!'

    One of Lord snooty's pals do you think?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/mar/08/pension-promises-iain-duncan-smith

    ReplyDelete
  85. I shall keep my literary criticism to myself in future.

    Don't do that Peter - We can agree to disagree. And anyway, I know sod all about poetry but love Angelou's voice - she could read any damn thing and I'd like it. I saw her once when she came to Sheffield, she was an inspiration.

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  86. Hi Anne:

    Cheers for the support too!! This time, for the last time, I really want to knock it on the head once and for all - God knows, I've tried and failed enough times. You're right, a bit of Yoga breathing really helps... in one nostril out the other and my Ma sent me a tip about sucking lemons (I jest not!!) it really does help with the cravings. (I meant to get back yesterday and say congrats to Froggie for passing 2 weeks no fags and no booze) :)

    Thanks very much for the Maya Angelou poem and to Sheff for the little bit of footage of her reading/singing... thanks too for the See Line Woman (Nina Simone) Thauma.... thoroughly enjoyed all....

    Leni:

    Something very bizarre in the whole venture.... reminds me of Boris riding around City Hall on his bike - they DO NOT understand public or civic responsibility, everything's either a 'Boy's Own' adventure or a joke - they are extremely dangerous.

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  87. @PeterJ

    Sam Vimes as Met Police Commissioner would be a vast improvement.

    ReplyDelete
  88. Hello to Speedkermit and LaRit! Speedy, what do you think about the cuts to the police force? LaRit, enjoyed your rants from a couple a nights ago. (Monbiot's thread? Can't remember - old age.)

    This govt really is fucking incompetent. The Libyan 'diplomatic mission' fiasco is just more proof: really? The dreaded SAS were captured by a few farmers? And - as has been said upthread - why the fuck didn't they go in openly?

    Anne - have just posted a comment on the Hanson thread. At the risk of being thrown out of leftdom, I can't quite see what is wrong with the proposal: it seems that pensioners will get more money under this scheme than currently, and that without having to go through degrading and intrusive means-testing?

    Tories are always going to keep pensioners on-side as they are a reliable vote.

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  89. Urgh, has Henry Porter farted in here? It seems to have become infested with civil liberty types suddenly.

    I'm quite looking forward to the LibDem conference this weekend. Anyone going? I shall be somewhat removed from the town centre on the day sadly. One has a very important function which I couldn't possibly tell you about, 'need to know' basis, what what, loose lips and all that. Suffice it to say, much as you all scoff about kettling and other despicable Met-style practices, the watchword for the weekend will be 'proportionality' - make of that what you will. (Had an illuminating conversation just yesterday about whether a placard with 'Clegg is a cunt' on it would be beyond the pale, and we pretty much unanimously decided it wasn't).

    Having said that, in the unlikely event that Kingmaker Clegg should materialise before me at any point during the festivities I shall be turning my back on him, which seems to be the general consensus among the rest of the chaps also. We did it to Jacqui Smith and... well, nothing happened really, but it made us feel slightly better.

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  90. Anne - my remark above is not meant at all to excuse the 'you should have saved more' comments! May those get all the scorn they deserve.

    You lot talking about quitting fags are making me chain-smoke out of nervousness.

    ReplyDelete
  91. @speedy

    Good to see you here again, despite the whiff of Henry Porter you bring with you.

    On a brighter note, as I can't get up to the pub as often as I'd like, I've discovered that my new friend Matt Wright will deliver good quality local beer to my door at around £1.80 a pint with free delivery, as will the estimable Bath Ales of (confusingly) Bristol. As a result I am drinking a pint of the latter's Golden Hare, and have a supply of Dark Star's American Pale Ale arriving on Friday morning.

    From that angle, life is good.

    Give Clegg a sneer from me, would you speedy?

    ReplyDelete
  92. thauma, the cuts to the police are going to bite the posh kids on the arse, you mark my words...

    Just to demonstrate the kinds of things that can happen when the police down tools, there's this article from Time Magazine.

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  93. Speedy

    Serious question - who will police the police should they march ? They have as much right to deomonstrate as the rest of us but it will look bad if they are allowed to march as and where they like while others are kettled and controlled.

    I have no doubt that many police officers feel the same contempt for Glegg as the majority of the population - but many still took part in the kettling operation.

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  94. Hej Thauma!

    My rants on the Monbiot thread woz wot got me back in pre-mod I think.....:( anyway, that's not the reason I'm posting more here, just it's better for my blood pressure!!!

    And Thauma - re: chain-smoking out of nervousness and finally going cold turkey. This was the clincher for me

    <a href="http://stopsmoking.eu.pn/>Stop Smoking - A new approach</a>

    now, I'm no fool and anything that smacks of 'manipulation' I can see right through - but so far, so good....not easy though. Hoping tomorrow (day 3) will be a little easier.

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  95. Hi speedy

    I'll be there - outside with the crowds that is not at the conference. "Proportionality' huh - does that mean if I'm stuck in a kettle and need a pee I'll be let out?

    When you say you'll be a bit out of the town centre - is it the same place used as the ops HQ for the G8 shenanigans the other year?

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  96. Speedy:

    Good luck with giving his Cleggness the cold shoulder.... do you think he's as arrogant as Prince Charles and will opt for a casual 'walkabout' in Sheffield to meet some of the common people?

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  97. Now it's time for the Wot U Lookin' Like? quiz, which is sponsored today by Brusselskecksplatts and "Mmm-Mmm Piggy Eye Pork Pies."

    The Queen of Political Culture has told the world that in the 1960s real, genuine, kosher and pukka working-class matey-boys and muckers could rise from the quagmire of their murky roots and achieve fame and fortune in the, ahem, hacting profession.

    You only have to look at Michael Caine for proof of the common as muck oik-boy made good.

    However, times have changed, apparently.

    La Belle Bruxelles informs us that:

    You only have to look at the appearances of actors in the Sixties and Seventies (James Bond notwithstanding) and compare them with the looks of today's male stars who all look like Ivy leaguers.

    So, we now have to contend with the concept of being nothing more than how we look.

    If you look like a scummy, Lidl-robbing chav - you are.

    If you look like a successful member of the international banking aristocracy - equally, you are.

    So, what type of film or television role did the fates decree for you? The bloke with the fag who pops the toddler's balloon or the serenely gliding monarch of all you survey?

    Did grumpy Gordon Brown get booted out just because he looked like the bloke in the blue overalls who comes to clean the moat?

    Did sleek and smooth Camoron get elected because he has lovely manners and a nicely cut suit?

    In the Disunited Superficialdom of Engerland and Europia, looks matter.

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  98. Evening all

    Had a lovely long post just disappear into the vapour and I'm too tired to repeat it, so - as you were...

    Meh.

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  99. Shit

    I can really look like a scummy, Lidl-robbing chav at times.

    Ho hum...

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  100. speedy

    The cops round where I work are feeling pretty pissed off over the job cuts / pay cuts, and no doubt would take the same view as you re 'Clegg is a cunt' placards.

    thauma

    I haven't given up the fags : )

    Have to disagree over the universal pension though. The pension credit is a top up to the state pension at the moment, so those with the lowest income who have no company pension get a more liveable amount. It's mostly women who benefit, many of whom have little or no insurance contributions because of caring responsibilities / part-time working history / opt out from full national insurance & other policies of yesteryear.

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  101. Hello, Speedy.

    Or, I suppose, ner, ner, ner, ner.

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  102. LaRit

    Well done and good luck with the not-smoking thing.

    I am still on Niquitin lozenges after years and years, but I am down to the 1mg ones now. I need to wean myself off these now. :o)

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  103. BB

    Yeah, with distractions my Lookie-Likie post took a long time and I then thought it was not polite to interrupt the policing thread.

    Then I thought...yeah, well, fuck it.

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  104. Leni - "Serious question - who will police the police should they march ? They have as much right to deomonstrate as the rest of us but it will look bad if they are allowed to march as and where they like while others are kettled and controlled."

    I believe it was the City of London Police last time they went down to Westminster, when 3000 bobbies stood silently outside Parliament. It was all lawfully pre-arranged, although not quite within the exclusion zone obviously. The uniformed presence was just cosmetic really - there was little chance of anyone smashing anything up, and the whole thing passed off with nary a swearword. Which is rather the point. If all protesters could be guaranteed to behave themselves like that then nobody would need policing, would they?

    "I have no doubt that many police officers feel the same contempt for Glegg as the majority of the population - but many still took part in the kettling operation."

    You do what you are paid to do, the same as in any other job. More than any other policing duty, the management of a demonstration relies on each individual officer following a strict chain of command. If cops started second guessing the European Court of Human Rights and pleasing their leftie selves, then the whole thing would go horribly tits up. The Met's tactics in recent years have received grudging judicial approval, but the point of kettling is to permit a slow release of a large crowd into particular area where a sudden mass movement would be dangerous or would lead to the likely commission of offences. It isn't really meant to be used to indiscriminately keep everybody in one place for hours on end - hence the fact that it has gotten a bit of a bad name.

    sheffpixie - "I'll be there - outside with the crowds that is not at the conference. "Proportionality' huh - does that mean if I'm stuck in a kettle and need a pee I'll be let out?"

    My missus bought this great thing for the nippers last time we went camping - a 'potette'. Basically you piss in a little carrier bag, tie the handles together, and hurl it at the nearest passing Yellow Tory. (Well, the last bit's optional).

    "When you say you'll be a bit out of the town centre - is it the same place used as the ops HQ for the G8 shenanigans the other year?"

    Ha ha, nice try lady! Perhaps once the broken glass and limbs have all been swept away by the skeleton-staff that remains of StreetForce, I can regale you all with stories. (Actually, you'll probably have better ones than me!)

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  105. Atomboy:

    Shouldn't that be ner-ner-na-ner-ner? Otherwise, it just sounds like a car alarm.

    ReplyDelete
  106. ...or perhaps you were giving us a rendition of Dawn Penn in a Hull accent...?

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  107. ah well...worth a try. Anyway speedy, maybe I'll see you over the weekend - I'll be waving my Cuntybaws Clegg placard.

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  108. Swifty

    I'm sure you are right, although the traditional "ner ner ner ner" always used to work in Viz.

    Having said that, the pictures probably helped.

    Anyway, I hope you are well and having fun keeping Her Majesty's peace and all that jazz.

    Obviously, policing will have to be opened up to commercial operations and competition soon, like the NHS.

    I suppose there will then be different uniforms, like team sports.

    "Hello, McDonald's Firm But Fair Policing, Mandy speaking. How may I help you today?"

    "I've been robbed."

    "OK, you're lucky because today we have a special deal. If we recover your property, we reduce our fee to just 25 percent of its value, plus our standard £100 flat rate fee. On top of this, we can also offer a Happy Meal for four at any participating restaurant. We can have someone round to sign you up now."

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  109. @Hi Speedkermit.

    Good to see you.I've missed your razor sharp wit and repartee in these here parts.Hope all's well with you.

    ReplyDelete
  110. And talking of razor sharp wit and repartee i haven't seen monkeyfish around for a while either.

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  111. Speedy - had a quick read of the link. Montreal isn't, as far as I know, I particularly lawless place at all. Interesting.

    However, kettling should only be used under *very* extreme circs, in my humble. The slow release wouldn't be necessary if masses of people hadn't been herded into small areas in the first place.

    LaRit - I'm not looking at your link. I *like* smoking!

    Atomboy - was tempted to respond in a similar-ish vein but decided I couldn't be arsed. Ignorance in this case truly is bliss, and bliss apparently cannot be disturbed.

    MsChin - good for you for not being a quitter. :-)

    My understanding of the new proposal is that most pensioners will get more money, especially women who have not accrued the requisite number of years as it no longer relies on those sorts of statistics but offers £140 as a minimum. But perhaps that's Tory spin - can you elucidate?

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  112. Hello everyone; apropos it being IWD and women being under represented in various organizations, I've just returned from the AGM of the PTA of Amelie's school. Of the twelve people there I was the only bloke!

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  113. Yes, what's happened to Monkeyfish? Anyone have any news?

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  114. talking of slave workers, the guardians very own nesrine malik, I remember 'her' story a few months ago on cif, when she told the story of her 'houseboy' in Sudan,who came to their home as a 8 or 10 yr old boy,he slept in a bare corregated iron outside room with only nasrines pets to keep him company,lived alone and in isolation for around 6 years, untill her family reported him to the police for some minor MINOR 'theft'(never proven) and which in reality,he would never have done, yet he was bundled off into a police car..reported by her father, and never heard of again, her(nesrines) article was one of the most dispassionate uninvolved cold articles i have ever read on cif. this young boy, who lived in their home, who handwashed their laundry, who ironed every item, who scrubbed and cleaned from morning till night ,who cooked the households food,washed up, slept alone in a wee bare tin room for his entire childhood,yet, still, his first smile came when t nesrines older sister was born, yet she has the fuken audacity, the sheer inhumanity, to write a piece, about him, though she never gave a care or a thought about him, in his life(whilst looking after 'her pets',) and never enquired as an adult as to what became of her 'house boy' when he was thrown in a police cell. this happens all the time, by the way, in Africa/Asia and here in the UK, everywhere, yet most wouldnt have the frigen cheek to dont choose to write a story from their angle..about this young mans life.

    meanwhile UTers anyone remember LIBYA..anyone, anyholidays booked> nah.. thought not

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  115. Re: monkeyfish - much missed and no, no news but will try emailing him via Bitterweed.

    thauma

    I'm absolutely convinced it's Tory spin. Will come back to this later, but I have a problem with my t'internet connection at the mo, which means I'm constantly getting cut off!

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  116. yea yea tory spin Zzzzz.. change the frigen record

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  117. meanwhile UTers anyone remember LIBYA..anyone, anyholidays booked> nah.. thought not

    Oh fuck off. Is that all you can find to slag a whole blogful of people off about? Grow up.

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  118. @ shaz no, i said a bit before the Libya comment(or didnt you read it) ,( slave workers?sudan?/guardian journalists ... any thoughts ? nah... UMMM difficult im guessing. and then I added the lack of anger about libya on here, and waddya know you spit your wee UT dummy out.. frigen hell..predictible or what..ha ha keep on keeping on love

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  119. I'm drinking, which is reason enough for a tune - here you go UTers, turn it up and shake that shit.

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  120. yeah that means you too smtx...

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  121. no im spurs @'i to the vizzo' ha ha... always love to see the goons loose... by the way shut down that convo mate, where u from burgess hill ha ha...ha ha

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  122. oh vizzo, i didnt get that link... is it a tune? aint very good.... ah anyway im happy enuf... i won a tennor(excuse the grammer affrikannas on here) get in there

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  123. Thauma

    I think the level of pension at which tax credits kick in is just below £140 at the moment. This could mean reductions for some people. It is not yet quite clear how this will work.

    When will this new scheme start - £140 today will be worth much less in even a year.

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  124. Don't call me 'love'. And you're a bit late on the Nesrine Malik story - been there, been appalled by the hypocrisy of that. Why should I respond to regurgitated shock-horror? And if your point was the Malik story, why do the whole Libya/holidays crap?

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  125. "yea yea tory spin Zzzzz.. change the frigen record"

    You don't think politicians misrepresenting stuff is particularly important?

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  126. Oh meerkat seeing as you were premoderated... what was it for again a day was it/half a day? how did you manage to clock up 30 comments whilst premoderated? and 30 the day before?.. i need to know the knack.. my pre mod usaully takes a month at a time and one random comment usaully appears at the end of the thread from the day before, a wk at a time, and banning, well that takes around 5 weeks of complete silenece... i need your contacts...ha ha anyway, send us a tune.. cum on barca(thats a football teAM/Not a threat)
    By the way that jeremy bowen(and side burns is a bit of a

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  127. @shaz i was on the nesrine story were you ? (wotcha think i just stumbled across it), funny u aint got nothing to add... ooh UT dummys at dawn cum on have it...

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  128. @shaz i'll call you want i want... and love is being nice...

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  129. "Ignorance in this case truly is bliss, and bliss apparently cannot be disturbed."

    Oh it can be.

    smtx01, have you noticed a correlation between Eden's actions and Cameron's? Between Eisenhower's and Obama's?

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  130. That should keep google busy for a bit.

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  131. @habib, no not really.. im in happy mood ha ha

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  132. @Speedy; the stock in trade of the likes of smtx10 is to deliberately and disingenously mis-interpret what people actually say.
    Don't ask me why, unless of course smtx10 is a politician or a PR wonk in which case it would make sense.

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  133. Speedkermit
    "You do what you are paid to do, the same as in any other job. More than any other policing duty, the management of a demonstration relies on each individual officer following a strict chain of command. If cops started second guessing the European Court of Human Rights and pleasing their leftie selves, then the whole thing would go horribly tits up."

    Too, too godwin, our kid.

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  134. Vizzo - freaky, I played that album for the first time in about six years today

    ReplyDelete
  135. oh smtx - of course - I'd think everyone on here was outraged by the Malik
    story - did you not read my comment? Why would I have anything to add?

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  136. Good for you, smtx, I should be reminded of a happy mood more often. Would you mind a song interplay?

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  137. fuck off habib, if you had ever bothered to engage me in even one pleasant exchange I might dignify you with a similar response

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  138. Hello, speedkermit, how are you?

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  139. Which one speedy, roots manuva or major lazer?

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  140. @ vizzo, yea aint heard that album fr about 5 years, still ok though(doesnt quite do the whole ting though does it) sumit lacking in roots manuva, my fav tune last 5 yrs or so gota be hate it or love it 50 cent/game last few yrs.. ah wot can i say...id say u tube it but ya no the tune init

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  141. speedy

    For some officers to lose k4 pa is obviously going to enrage them.

    If they withdraw cooperation when it comes to policing other demos, which they may have to if they want public support, the gvt. could have a real battle on its hands.

    Have to say to be paid double time for working Bank holidays as well as getting a day off in lieu seems very indulgent.

    Other workers are not so privileged.

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  142. Roots Manuva Vizzo.

    This is a personal favourite track of his he did with Cinematic Orchestra. It's quite long, but stick with it. The album is great too.

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  143. Hi smtx

    Don't have an absolute favourite. Love most Mozart - as to pop etc. like lots of it but prefer Jazz and blues. I would always choose melody over rythm .

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  144. Have to say to be paid double time for working Bank holidays as well as getting a day off in lieu seems very indulgent.

    Or really quite lucky. There was a Graun article recently about how much unpaid overtime people do - I reckon to do my job properly, I do at least 10hrs unpaid p/w. I'm guessing the police don't do much.

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  145. @smtx

    Course I know it, but I'm not that big on fiddy...check this out, he's only 17 years old - raw talent

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  146. Noam Chomsky on Newsnight anyone?

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  147. Chomsky on Libya intervention on Newsnight.

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  148. "Have to say to be paid double time for working Bank holidays as well as getting a day off in lieu seems very indulgent."

    Hmm, the last one I did was a Christmas Day, and I spent most of it - and Boxing Day - dealing with a mother who hanged herself while her 8 and 5 year old children were sleeping upstairs, so I don't really begrudge myself frankly. Can't remember a time when I've ever worked a bank holiday where I wasn't up to my eyeball in grief to be honest, seeing as how they'll only usually authorise half the number of officers to work it. (So twice the work in other words - maffs innit?)

    And I used to do BH's on those terms when I worked in retail, so it's hardly unique to the police.

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  149. "Or really quite lucky. There was a Graun article recently about how much unpaid overtime people do - I reckon to do my job properly, I do at least 10hrs unpaid p/w. I'm guessing the police don't do much."

    We aren't paid for the first half hour of any overtime we incur, which happens pretty much on every shift these days. But ten hours per week? More fool you really.

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  150. Thauma I sort of agree with you there my RP is currently just over £420 pcm. or £5,040 pa.

    £140 pw would be over £7000. It would make a huge difference to me.

    It is as you say the self righteous attitude of tsome posters who really don't understand that a lifetime on the minimum wage doesn't give you enough to save, irritates me.

    Oh and the ones who say they know most people have huge final salary pensions.

    Most people they know isnt most people is it?

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  151. You might think so - but where is the money in education? If I want to do my job properly, rather than just paying lip service to it, and to the children, I need to put in extra hours - planning, marking, general stuff - and any decent teacher/assistant/deputy/head is in the same situation.

    More fools us? That's one way of looking at it. But not ours.

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  152. Fiddy is the Fifty Cent who performed for Gaddafi, doesn't seem to regret it and intends to hang onto the cash, right?

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  153. Speedy, great roots manuva link. Hadn't heard that one before...here's a UK hip hop oldie for you in return

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  154. Also the guy who brags about selling drugs, has been to prison lots of times and released an album called 'get rich or die tryin'...so Gaddafi's human rights record probably isn't top of fiddy's list of concerns!

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  155. Shaz re teaching do so agree with you, tbh I'm glad I'm retired I resent the time taken up by pointless admin (some admin has a point), Prefer to sopend it on marking properly and preparing lessons (properly).

    There was time when you could do this, but then I wanted to treach the kids to THINK.

    Real teaching is a subversive activity.

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  156. Yo, Petkovski, how's it hanging. Been off teh internets for a while?

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  157. Здраво, драги мои македонски

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  158. Easy, Charles. Yep, I'm trying to cut down on the internet usage and do more reading, plus some real-world interaction wherever possible...

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  159. anne / thauma

    From Direct.gov.uk:

    "If you are living in Great Britain and have reached the minimum qualifying age, you may be entitled to the Guarantee Credit. This guarantees a minimum income by topping up your weekly income to:

    £132.60 if you are single
    £202.40 if you have a partner

    These amounts may be more if you are disabled, have caring responsibilities or certain housing costs, such as mortgage interest payments.

    The age from which you can get the Guarantee Credit – the qualifying age – is gradually increasing from 60 to 65 in line with women's State Pension age".

    So £140 isn't much of an increase, is it.

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  160. "Real teaching is a subversive activity."

    ain't that the truth and bloody well said annetan.

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  161. Ah, Chomsky's excellent. The full interview on the BBC website.

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  162. haha ne znaev deka zboruvash makedonski

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  163. @leni its all good, (no harm meant) i like jazz/blues too, we couud do a quartet,(tho not sure of the extra) i can play the violin , u can play the guitar, we'l make a mint, cum on...just need a drummer .

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  164. Anne -thanks for that - can't understand the mentality that dictates that anything unpaid shouldn't be done, however important it is...
    Agree entirely re pointless admin, particularly government directives which differ by a syllable from the previous one and yet changes nothing...
    Teaching the children to think is one of our yr 6 objectives - sometimes causes raised eyebrows, but almost always pays off..

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  165. "You might think so - but where is the money in education? If I want to do my job properly, rather than just paying lip service to it, and to the children, I need to put in extra hours - planning, marking, general stuff - and any decent teacher/assistant/deputy/head is in the same situation."

    Yes, my wife is a primary school teacher and she's encountered this argument many times, that she is somehow less professional because she goes home at half past five to look after her children rather than making autumn displays out of dead leaves and pinecones until the caretaker kicks her out because he wants to lock up. Not to say anything against your own abilities, which I'm sure are impeccable, but in many cases it doesn't make you a better teacher and it certainly doesn't make you any better thought of by the children, or even the parents.

    "More fools us? That's one way of looking at it. But not ours."

    This is how public sector workers come to be devalued, and the police aren't much different. They 'muddle by' on goodwill and misguided ideas of 'professionalism', and when the government see that they are managing on what they are given, they don't bother to invest any more resources in it, and everyone ends up working ten hours a week more than they should. Then ten years down the line, some fuckers see that it's all ticking over quite nicely, and that the results are no worse than they were at the start, so they decide they can lose 20% off there budgets and all work a little it harder and it'll be no great sweats. If somebody attacks - or threatens to attack - your wages, and your conditions, as that cnut Jacqui Smith did to us, then you have a duty to your colleagues to no more than is absolutely necessary to fulfil you contract of employment (which, incidentally, we don't even have). And when the money doesn't stretch, then the government will realise the fundamental pricelessness of goodwill.

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  166. smtx

    i also play the lyre .

    If you were to rely on me to make a mint you'll be a long time waiting - I was obviously meant to be poor. I think it is because I'm not really interested in money above my needs. I think you have to want money.

    Perhaps you should do a duo with Tony Blair if you want riches.

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  167. @spike , its a tune mate ...

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  168. btw, has anyone else noticed that the ConDems are trying to change the rules on human right convention:

    "The Convention on Preventing and Combating Violence Against Women and Domestic Violence has been two years in the making and was ready to be signed off by the 47 member states.

    But in an unprecedented step, Britain has intervened to object to the wording "violence against women is understood as a violation of human rights". Instead, it wants "violence against women constitutes a serious obstacle for women's enjoyment of human rights". It also wants to alter the document so that it applies only in peace time, and not during armed conflict -- a surprising request, given the widespread international use of rape as a weapon of war".

    New Statesman

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  169. Not to say anything against your own abilities, which I'm sure are impeccable,
    What?

    in many cases it doesn't make you a better teacher and it certainly doesn't make you any better thought of by the children, or even the parents.
    And how is that relevant in any way?

    They 'muddle by' on goodwill and misguided ideas of 'professionalism',
    You can call it that, but I see it more that certain children - already disadvantaged - will miss out even more without that extra input. it's a matter of conscience, not pinecones.

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  170. @Speedkermit

    I worked in a London magistrates court for about a year, and while I'm reluctant to draw any general conclusions about the public sector from that limited experience, the level of obvious waste was easily over 20%.

    Paper filing systems, pointless layers of management, archaic procedures, lax time-keeping and no drive or incentive to streamline or improve anything. From that operation you could easily cut 20% without having any discernible effect to the 'end user'.

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  171. MsChin

    I feel very strongly about the assumed suspension of human rights during wartime. So often we hear the same excuse when women are raped, civilians killed and basic rights are abused - "Things are different in war time " they say.

    Accepting that war itself goes against all moral codes extending the status of enemy to civilians and noncombatants means anything goes.

    Violence against anybody violates their human rights - being violently abused does not in itself deny access to other rights unless you live under a system that denies them to you anyway. Violence against women - and certain categories of men - is allowed within those systems anyway.

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  172. If somebody attacks - or threatens to attack - your wages, and your conditions, as that cnut Jacqui Smith did to us, then you have a duty to your colleagues to no more than is absolutely necessary to fulfil you contract of employment

    A duty to my colleagues? What about the kids, who have no choice whatsoever in this political power game, and end up getting shat on from all sides?
    Maybe in nice, exclusively middle class schools, this thinking would work - but not in ours, where the only stability and continuity a lot of our children receive come from school.

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  173. "You can call it that, but I see it more that certain children - already disadvantaged - will miss out even more without that extra input. it's a matter of conscience, not pinecones."

    OK then, let's imagine the Government want to cut your pay by 20%. Are you still prepared to work an extra ten hours a week? How high has the cut got to be before you'll admit that you're only happy to go the extra mile because your remuneration and conditions are good? I'm right in thinking, for example, that your pension contributions are going up? Not to 14% like ours perhaps, but still enough to be a noticeable chunk of your take home pay. Do you think that will be the end of it?

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  174. How high has the cut got to be before you'll admit that you're only happy to go the extra mile because your remuneration and conditions are good?

    Are you kidding? You're clearly not familiar with teaching assistants' remuneration and conditions - I'm on about £8 p/hr - can't remember the last time we had a pay rise - and with the way the funding's going atm, none of us know whether we'll have a job next year.
    None of which makes any difference to the work and support for the children which needs to be done.

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  175. @Shaz

    I understand your point of view as someone working with children, but as a trade unionist, I tend to agree with kermit.

    If enough people do unpaid overtime, it just enables their employers to cut back on jobs and wages.

    In France, it's mainly led to a tendency among employers not to change people's nominal working hours, but just give them more work to do during those working hours, which of course leads to unpaid overtime for those unwilling or unable to say no to the extra workload.

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  176. "A duty to my colleagues? What about the kids, who have no choice whatsoever in this political power game, and end up getting shat on from all sides? Maybe in nice, exclusively middle class schools, this thinking would work - but not in ours, where the only stability and continuity a lot of our children receive come from school."

    No-one is saying that it isn't deeply necessary, but if that is the case then you ought to be agitating to have the government provide the proper resources and not have to work over your contracted hours in order to provide what's required. The conscientious worker is a useful idiot, especially when he's in the pay of the state. I'll ask again, how much will you let Cameron shave off your wages until you decide that professionalism can go fuck itself? Or are you prepared to do fifty hours a week (39 weeks a year) for free?

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  177. Spike - obviously, as a trade unionist, I respect your views and recognise absolutely the importance of your point - but as someone who scrapes up the pieces of some of these children on a regular basis, I can't agree with them - I wouldn't be able to live with myself.

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  178. Shaz!! You're a teaching assistant and you still do ten hours unpaid a week?! I really am speechless. You are truly a child of the Big Society.

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  179. Serbo-Croatian then Vizzo?

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  180. No-one is saying that it isn't deeply necessary, but if that is the case then you ought to be agitating to have the government provide the proper resources and not have to work over your contracted hours in order to provide what's required.

    Oh for Christ's sake. I'm a TA.

    The conscientious worker is a useful idiot, especially when he's in the pay of the state. Well, I'm sorry, but I can live with idiot, if it means I can live with myself.

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  181. "Spike - obviously, as a trade unionist, I respect your views and recognise absolutely the importance of your point - but as someone who scrapes up the pieces of some of these children on a regular basis, I can't agree with them - I wouldn't be able to live with myself."

    Not to open a whole feminist can of worms here, but women back themselves into poorly-paid jobs in the caring professions because they... well... care, and then complain about being undervalued! Stop being so bloody selfless and realise that people who earn higher salaries, and who don't have to worry about where the next crust is coming from, can far more effectively devote themselves to selfless acts. Look at Lady Di. Damn right she should have been hugging African kiddies with no legs on her fucking money.

    That opening line of yours sounded just like something out of Life Of Brian btw...

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  182. Can't be arsed any more, Speedkermit. Sorry.

    Actually
    That opening line of yours sounded just like something out of Life Of Brian btw...
    Excellent. Scriptwriting potential.

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  183. Speedy

    Shaz!! You're a teaching assistant and you still do ten hours unpaid a week?! I really am speechless. You are truly a child of the Big Society.

    Obviously i can't speak for Shaz but employers both in the public and private sector know that for a variety of reasons many employees ain't gonna say NO if they start taking liberties with them.Fear of losing your job is something those with power know they can exploit and take advantage of.

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  184. "Well, I'm sorry, but I can live with idiot, if it means I can live with myself."

    You make it sound like you have absolutely no choice but to accept shit wages and lousy working hours. Please tell me exactly how your lessons would be materially different if you only spent your contracted hours bringing them to fruition, because you are making it sound like someone is going to die if you don't mark their spelling tests.

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  185. Christ, smtx, I haven't even been online in about 36 hours, and you're still posting obsessively in my direction, and actually *counting* my posts...? It would be flattering if it weren't just a bit creepy. Should I be amused by your nascent obsession, or invest in a panic room... ?

    Yes, actually, it did last about 6 hours - must be one of the shortest premods in guardian history. I was surprised by how quickly the mods got posts out there too, to be honest. My strategy was to 'post my way out'. It seemed to work quite well. (And I did actually say *all this* the other day, on the thread where I mentioned I was in premod....)

    Evening everyone else.

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  186. because you are making it sound like someone is going to die if you don't mark their spelling tests.
    Yeah, because that's all we do in school, mark spelling tests. Can't you be any more patronising and dismissive?

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  187. Paul - "Obviously i can't speak for Shaz but employers both in the public and private sector know that for a variety of reasons many employees ain't gonna say NO if they start taking liberties with them.Fear of losing your job is something those with power know they can exploit and take advantage of.

    It's all down to a lack of knowledge of one's rights. There isn't an employer in the land who is free of the threat of a tribunal. People need to get educated about what they can and cannot be required to do, because these Tory fuckers don't play by the same rules as the last lot, who'd shit a brick if someone cried 'bullying'. Nothing has changed. The law is still the law, until they decide to repeal it (and good luck with that without a majority that isn't partly composed of wishy-washies).

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  188. 'absolutley'.... 'actually' 'sorry' move on' 'fuck off' cant you u Ut'ers(or should I say Udders) get a more coherant response to people you disagree with other than fuck off.... we dont like ya. i mean not much room to maneoevere in that is there? I shall leave you with a brendhan behan quote, 'critics are like eunochs in a harem, they know how it's done, theyve seen it done every day. yet they are unable to do it to themselves'

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  189. @meerkaty im not posting obssesiv;ey(only done 3 or 4 comments doll) just wondered how you got 30 comments posted a day when 'premoderated'.. i need tips is all...ah well

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  190. "Yeah, because that's all we do in school, mark spelling tests. Can't you be any more patronising and dismissive?"

    Please, it's a just trite example, nothing more - I am only too fucking aware what teaching staff have to do for a living. Like you wouldn't have said 'bashing protesters' or 'handing out speeding tickets' if the rhetorical boot were on the other foot?

    Yes, it's a tough moment when it finally dawns that socialism and liberalism aren't entirely compatible bedfellows, but as long as you place the welfare of other people's kids above your own then you will continue to get shafted. Look after yourself, then continue to do the same sterling job you always have. Value yourself.

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  191. @speedkermit

    No-one in education, at any level, works 'contracted hours'. In fact, my contract has a nebulous 'work such hours as are necessary to do the job' stipulation.

    If you want to work in education, and actually have the satisfaction of doing your job well, then I'm afraid the long working hours go with the territory. Mostly this involves some exploitation of staff's good will and sense of vocation.

    A typical teaching contract involves 26 hours of contact teaching a week. Add an hour's prep / marking for every hour that is in front of a class, and how many do you get? It's not 35, is it?

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