04 March 2011

04/03/11

Everybody Tells Me Everything

I find it very difficult to enthuse
Over the current news.
Just when you think that at least the outlook is so black that it can grow no blacker, it worsens,
And that is why I do not like the news, because there has never been an era when so many things were going so right for so many of the wrong persons.

-Ogden Nash

89 comments:

  1. From last night (sorry, just getting caught up):

    @Montana; I was under the impression the term "liberal" was a perjorative slur in the USA.
    Could you clarify?


    Well, the right-wing blowhards have done their best to make it pejorative, but its traditional meaning here in the US is someone who is left-of-centre -- primarily on social issues, since very few Americans question the whole capitalism thing. American liberals do usually support more regulation/oversight of business & industry to curb their worst excesses. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but the traditional meaning of 'liberal' in the UK is pretty much the opposite of that -- someone who believes in little state intervention in economic matters -- is it not?

    Many people now refer to themselves as "progressive" rather than "liberal". Other people think that's giving the right-wingers too much power to set the agenda.

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  2. I've just spent a few days travelling in South West China during which time I visited the two largest Buddhist temple sites in Asia and therefore probably the world, at Xishuangbanna and Dali, along with a number of minor ones, and concluded that chanting for Buddhists has the same function as reciting the Koran has for Muslims; it numbs the mind, dulls the senses and makes one compliant. Which is why I find it so difficult to understand the attraction of Buddhism for so many educated westerners.

    I also visited the 860 year old Song Dynasty Gingko tree, planted by Gao Liangcheng, Prime Minister of Dali state in what is now the Chuxiong mountain park; the 2500m Weibao Mountain (Weibaoshan), one of China's 13 most famous Daoist holy mountains and site of the world's tallest Camelia tree; Menghua Old House, Weishan, the most complete Bai house in the old town; Longjiang Park in Chuxiong with China's highest pagoda, with a different laughing Buddha on each floor and 360 degree panoramic views from the top; and best of all Lufeng's “Two Hundred Years Happy Gathering Dinosaur Valley”, where since 1938, 24 categories 33 species and hundreds of complete dinosaur fossils have been unearthed, making it the largest single collection in the world.

    So to celebrate:

    The Doobie Brothers China Grove

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  3. Good to see on board BTH - I can now formally hand back the early morning music baton.

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  4. @Dave

    I see that my off-the-cuff stirring-comment at waddya 11.50AM did work !

    Yeah, cheers for that, Dave!

    I picked up the ball and ran with it, fending off tackles, then looked over my shoulder to see you wave to me from the beer tent. ;-)

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  5. Just a footnote to what I was talking about last night about the political consensus and the narrowing of the sections of society from which political leaders are drawn.

    It doesn't just apply to leaders, but the whole political and media class. New Labour pioneered the widespread parachuting of the Oxbridge identikits, but Cameron (an admirer of Blair) widened the process with his 'A Listers'. Does it matter? It matters very much.

    If politicians understand society from a uniform perspective (a free market in people, what constitutes the 'best', how industrial and social policies should proceed), that in itself creates a consensus that reinforces itself. A fast-track for anyone with the right CV to junior ministerships rather compounds the problem.

    Whereas other countries that have successfully developed their economies to move forward with full employment and advanced technologies have taken their political leadership from wider sections of their cultures - Angela Merkel studied physics at the University of Leipzig and worked as a chemist; Naoto Kan graduated from the Tokyo Institute of Technology and worked in the Patent Office - Britain has shrunk the talent pool of leadership drastically.

    They're not the best of current British thinking, they're the pick of a tiny self-sustaining group. And for all Giddens and his mates' attempts to put a theoretical gloss on it, all it amounts to in the last 30 years - from all sides of the political spectrum - is 'Maggie was right'. Right about the unions, about finance, about meritocracy and class.

    Here's heresy. Suppose she was wrong. Suppose the answer was not to fetishize industrial relations, but to concentrate on what industry produces - the products. Suppose broadly-based manufacturing employment is a cornerstone of a harmonious society. Suppose bloating finance is a recipe for making a few people obscenely rich and leaving many people behind. Suppose you don't take a hammer to industry, but you develop it assiduously.

    Other countries and cultures figured out all this. But not ours. Because they all agree with each other, the possibility that they're all wrong cannot occur.

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  6. BrusselsLowFat on Whaddya:

    Given even a brief glance at the history of Europe's treatment of its Jewish population - whether in Russia, Poland, Spain or the UK and latterly Nazi Germany and its occupied territories - I think we owe the Jewish people a homeland.

    Frankly there is no reason at all why they should take notice of anything their former persecutors may spout. Moral grandstanding sits ill in a continent where the smoke of the crematoria is still a living memory for some survivors.

    It's puzzling this rise in anti-semitism. After all Jewish people are not suicide bombers wreaking havoc in cities of the West, nor are they terrorists determined to genuinely rule the world through their own brand of fanaticism.


    Oh well, put that way, it was quite reasonable to give them someone else's country. No wonder she's a deeply admired oracle for the world's greatest politicians. As she's told us, she nearly always gets it right!

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  7. An interesting article in the Canard Enchaîné. In France, the agencies that employ chuggers take up to half of the donations made by the people who sign a standing order. The chuggers get 10 or 11 euros an hour before deductions and the agencies invoice six to eight times that amount.

    I don't know if it's the same in the UK, but I wouldn't have thought it's any better.

    Moral: give directly to charity, don't sign up in the high street.

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  8. Eddie, I think our biggest enemy at the moment is the taken for granted perception of the rightness of the current political and economic set up. That capital and its social arrangements are viewed as the only option by the vast majority, that it is viewed as inevitable, has people in a head lock.

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  9. Leni excellent posts yesterday especially the one at 2:00 this morning!

    Deano excellent class position on contract law well said.

    Very tired today - daughter around yesterday to help with housework - she means well and tbh she does a better job as she has more energy and can SEE the dust!

    She worries about me less if I let her do it, but yesterday she was 'doing' my bedroom when I needed to lie down.

    So all set for a Duvet day today I think.

    Play nice now!

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  10. Good post(s) Eddie.

    Meerkatjie, exactly - it's constantly and succesfully sold, as my other half puts it, as if this is all the result of some set of "natural laws" - rather than the pursuit of an ideology.

    Ever wondered why anyone who calls it for what it is - ideology - is labelled as a Marxist ideologist ? Neat trick eh ?

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  11. Meerkatje - too true, we can only hope that as things get worse for more and more people they begin to question this spurious orthodoxy.

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  12. BW of course Marxism is a materialist philosophy not an idealist one.

    But there we are, kids are not usually taught philosophy at school. Obvious why really people might actually be able to think then.

    They don't want that!

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  13. Spike-- "I picked up the ball and ran with it, fending off tackles, then looked over my shoulder to see you wave to me from the beer tent. ;- "

    Well, I did warn that I was off for the day, and you weren't alone either . Gegen and thauma were in there too. Part of your comment expressed it all --

    "And I'm sorry if I've missed something, but don't you think AIPAC actually is "pretty much uniquely sinister, powerful, underhand, etc."? Offhand, I can't think of any other lobbying organisation in the world that's been so successful in persuading a superpower to back the criminal policies of a much smaller nation it bankrolls, even against its own interests; a lobbying body that has virtually all that superpower's politicians in its pocket and punishes those who step out of line."

    Exactly what Jim Abourezk said, and he was a US Rep and then Senator.

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  14. Aaarggh! Just lost a long comment & forgot to copy before I hit "preview".

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  15. AIPAC is evil.

    Only the anti-Castro Cuban lobby has come anywhere close to them in convincing American politicians to carry on with policies that were detrimental to US interests.

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  16. Eddie,

    (You've been a pleasure to read over the last few days, if I may say so....)

    I agree, mostly, but I think it's perhaps worse than us just having a clique who are all on the 'same page', who consider themselves intellectually superior, out of touch with reality etc (although that almost certainly is the case too..)

    I think that, now, more than ever, politics has become a kind of 'replacement bus' for many individuals who have reached the 'end of the line' in terms of their career, or social mobility, or whatever, which can take them to the next station to continue their journey. Yes, there are some who have been 'groomed', or 'called' to keep the bus on course, having certain 'skills' and whatnot, but most are just
    opportunistic commuters hitching a ride, because they didn't have the right contacts, skills, competence level to get where they wanted by norma/traditionall means.

    Thus, if you can't get that illustrious directorship 'cause you're a moron, jump aboard the politics bus, spend five/ten years making life considerably easier for said company, or any company really, and then, bob's your uncle, you've gone done played a blinder, and got paid by the taxpayer while you were doing it too!!

    You can see this playing out in the New Labour Project. Join the party machine, say the right things, get promoted, parachuted, ministerised, and spend the time making coo-ing noises and come-hither looks in the direction of anyone, except the oiks you're supposed to be representing. I mean, fuck them, right!? What they gonna do if you throw them a bone, get you a job at 'our Trev's garage/shop/whippet showroom?? Whatever...

    The conservatives have always played this kind of game, it's like the upper class version of charity work, doing a few years in the 'public sector', taking one for the team, but New Labour actually became so much better at it, really! So when you look at the PLP now, it's just a collection of mediocre businessmen, academics, lawyers, etc, waiting for their seat on the bus, and practicing the same hymn sheet, over and over again, until they get their chance to sing like a motherfucker straight into that big comfy leather chair, and director's expense account!!

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  17. Afternoon all

    Humph

    Just typed out a long post and got a "we're unable to perform your request" message, which I have never had before.

    Ah well

    In summary:

    Anne - enjoy your Duvet Day. I've finished early and am enjoying a sofa-and-iPlayer afternoon.

    Bitey - interesting comment about chanting. Did you participate or just observe? My experience of practicing it has been the complete opposite. Still, horses for courses and all that.

    The "received wisdom" that free-market capitalism is the only way life can possibly work is depressing and one of the biggest con tricks ever perpetrated by those in power. Makes me seethe.

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  18. Montana - snap!

    Are you on Spring Break now, by the way?

    Can I second James' comment that it is a pleasure to read Eddie's posts, too? I don't always have much to say because I am too tired/too stressed etc but that doesn't mean that I don't read all the comments here and agree with an awful lot of them.

    I love this place. Makes me happy. :o)

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  19. House of Lords Committee puts boot in on the WCA ...

    Thread still running HERE.

    Enjoying your comments all of you :-)

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  20. As Montana said ---'evil." Whenever AIPAC comes up I think of this witness who was very close indeed. I don't agree with all he said, five years ago also, but here he is --

    Criticism of U.S. support for Israel

    In the CounterPunch interview, Jim Abourezk also argued that America's support of Israel endures because "the Congress is pretty much reliant on money from radical Zionists".[2]

    He reiterated this statement in an editorial for Electronic Intifada on July 30, 2006, where he wrote:

    ...the U.S. Congress is despicable in its silence. They are all bought off by the Israel lobby and are afraid to criticize. If this were happening in any other country by any other country, there would be speeches on the floor of Congress, legislation introduced to stop aid and other help to whoever would be committing this cruelty. But since their campaign money comes from the Israeli lobby, we hear only silence.[3]

    In a letter dated December 2006, Abourezk wrote:

    "I can tell you from personal experience that, at least in the Congress, the support Israel has in that body is based completely on political fear—fear of defeat by anyone who does not do what Israel wants done. I can also tell you that very few members of Congress—at least when I served there—have any affection for Israel or for its Lobby. What they have is contempt, but it is silenced by fear of being found out exactly how they feel. I’ve heard too many cloakroom conversations in which members of the Senate will voice their bitter feelings about how they’re pushed around by the Lobby to think otherwise. In private one hears the dislike of Israel and the tactics of the Lobby, but not one of them is willing to risk the Lobby’s animosity by making their feelings public...

    I see no desire on the part of Members of Congress to further any U.S. imperial dreams by using Israel as their pit bull. The only exceptions to that rule is the feelings of Jewish members, who, I believe, are sincere in their efforts to keep U.S. money flowing to Israel.

    I believe that divestment, and especially cutting off U.S. aid to Israel would immediately result in Israel’s giving up the West Bank and leaving the Gaza to the Palestinians. Such pressure would work, I think, because the Israeli public would be able to determine what is causing their misery and would demand that an immediate peace agreement be made with the Palestinians."[4]WIKI

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  21. As Montana said ---'evil." Whenever AIPAC comes up I think of this witness who was very close indeed. I don't agree with all he says, but here he is --


    Criticism of U.S. support for Israel

    In the CounterPunch interview, Jim Abourezk also argued that America's support of Israel endures because "the Congress is pretty much reliant on money from radical Zionists".[2]

    He reiterated this statement in an editorial for Electronic Intifada on July 30, 2006, where he wrote:

    ...the U.S. Congress is despicable in its silence. They are all bought off by the Israel lobby and are afraid to criticize. If this were happening in any other country by any other country, there would be speeches on the floor of Congress, legislation introduced to stop aid and other help to whoever would be committing this cruelty. But since their campaign money comes from the Israeli lobby, we hear only silence.[3]

    In a letter dated December 2006, Abourezk wrote:

    "I can tell you from personal experience that, at least in the Congress, the support Israel has in that body is based completely on political fear—fear of defeat by anyone who does not do what Israel wants done. I can also tell you that very few members of Congress—at least when I served there—have any affection for Israel or for its Lobby. What they have is contempt, but it is silenced by fear of being found out exactly how they feel. I’ve heard too many cloakroom conversations in which members of the Senate will voice their bitter feelings about how they’re pushed around by the Lobby to think otherwise. In private one hears the dislike of Israel and the tactics of the Lobby, but not one of them is willing to risk the Lobby’s animosity by making their feelings public...

    I see no desire on the part of Members of Congress to further any U.S. imperial dreams by using Israel as their pit bull. The only exceptions to that rule is the feelings of Jewish members, who, I believe, are sincere in their efforts to keep U.S. money flowing to Israel.

    I believe that divestment, and especially cutting off U.S. aid to Israel would immediately result in Israel’s giving up the West Bank and leaving the Gaza to the Palestinians. Such pressure would work, I think, because the Israeli public would be able to determine what is causing their misery and would demand that an immediate peace agreement be made with the Palestinians."[4]

    Spam-binned , try again without html --

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Abourezk

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  22. Yeah, Dave, thanks for starting that discussion. Seems I am a raging anti-Semite now.

    *Real* thanks to Spike for trying to clear up the point I was attempting to actually make...!

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  23. Hey thaum

    With some people you just can't win, so I wouldn't even bother trying to justify myself. (s)he reads what (s)he wants to read and invents bits to fill in the huge holes in his/her comprehension by some of the torturous semantics I think I have seen since the demise of P-Brax as a regular.

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  24. Ah well, I've had another stab at it. I will probably regret that.

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  25. Thauma -- it was a pleasure!

    A deeply fascinating topic for lotsa reasons ...

    I once had a three-week discussion on a small US site which ended up as just me and two jewish blokes. The other regulars encouraged me from the sidelines -- thinking of Spike's remark there -- but the weirdest thing is that those two were really bright sparks, more intello than me by far, but they had a complete blind spot on the subject.

    Well, it ain't really weird of course. It's people !.

    Montana-- your second example reminded me of this quote -- " America's Cuba Policy is the stupidest in the history of the world' -- from Col Lawrence Wilkerson, at State with Colin Powell.

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  26. Now I remember why I stay out of I/P discussions.

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  27. Hey, wonder if I've made CifWatch? :-)

    Can't be arsed to look.

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  28. afternoon all

    Agree with others - Eddie has been a treat to read lately.

    Here's something fun, not to be missed if you're around the Stock Exchange on the afternoon of 11th March

    Making a new case for Globalisation, with Lord Mandelson

    I'd go with a few pies to throw but I don't think they'd let me in.

    Thauma

    Staying out of I/P discussions is very wise - I'd rather clear minefields!

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  29. @dave

    Well, I did warn that I was off for the day

    Ah, I missed that bit.

    @thaum

    You're welcome. :-)

    * * *

    It's actually far more satisfying to discuss I/P on Whaddya than on an I/P thread. On Whaddya, posts critical of Israel tend to stay up longer than 5 minutes.

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  30. @montana 'Aipac is evil, only the anti-castro cuban lobby has come anywhere close to them in convincing american politicians to carry on with policies detrimental to US interests'

    Yes it must be a very special kind of evil to exert such influence over american politicians and global foreign policy,,,scary isnt it!!,but montana, it is not only in the US that these 'Israel lobbys' wield such amazing powers of all consuming pursuasion, it's fairly global,I mean take in the UK, we also have our own 'Israel Lobby', it's reach,apparently far exeeds it's grasp, in 2008,for example the guardian ran a story 'How labour used the law to keep criticism of Israel secret', apparently 'Labour marshalled the full power of the state to prevent a little one word(implied/ possible) criticism of Israel by one foreign office secret,you see how 'The lobby' controls free speech?you see how 'the lobby' forces a government to do it's work secretly,in concealment,cunningly,exploiting loopholes,weilding the blue pencil, apparently according to lobby rhetoric, Israel controls the world because it holds the ultimate weapon, which is the accusation of antisemitisim,it uses this weapon brazenly and dishonestly,governments like the British government,goes the story,are too 'craven' to stand up to Israel when it 'kicks up a fuss' in case any politician who stands up to Israel would be fatally wounded by accusations of antisemtitism,which 'The lobby' controls,and in any case,politicians are beholden to 'The lobby' for their money,' it is indeed strange, because when you look at things.. 'who is more powerful Britain or Israel?, Britain has the 4th largest economy,Israel has the 35th largest economy,britain has a permanent seat on the security council,Israel is a 'pariah state',britain is an old and influential imperial power which gave it's language to the world,Israel is a small country of a few million people,mainly in small cities,a country which many people hate,and which some would like to see wiped off the map, so to portray britain and the US as being controlled by Israel, is frankly weird .
    @dave in france you cite james abourezk,are you an admirer? he was an admirer of helen thomas(the one that was fired for telling Jews to go back to europe, abourezk also commented on al jazeera that 'zionists were responsible for 9/11'',causing worldwide anti muslim attitudes and picking on russia,'Also that abourezk piece you cited above (about the US congress in reality having only contempt for the Israel lobby,but being 'too scared' to say anything about it)was also cited and admired by someone else,in another piece; 'If you buy into antisemitisim and racisim word games, your consenting to the dual persecution strategy,in doing so your supporting an uneven playing field designed to dispossess whites and empower Jews, and therefore by extension,the Jewish Lobby, the lobbys agenda includes advancing zionisim,middle east wars,racial engineering,immigration,diversity, multiculturalism,censorship,political correctness and hate speech laws, when you buy into antisemitisim, your supporting zionisim,if your white and not part of the 'opinion elite' your a useful idiot who sells out for free'
    David Duke 'for our freedom and heritage' David Duke..America's most well known anti semitic racist white supremacist,founder of the knights of the ku lux klan and the national association for the advancement of white people,who is also affiliated with stormfront.
    Of course I can see that the 'respectable' language of 'The Israel Lobby',rather than the discredited language of Jewish conspiracy rolls more easily off the tongue.

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  31. @spike 'its actually far more satisfying to discuss I/P on whaddya than an I/P thread, on whaddya, posts critical of Israel tend to stay up for more than 5 minutes'.
    I disagree, it is actually more satisfying to discuss I/P issues on an I/P thread, there is no consistency or continuety on waddya,by the way, deletions on IP threads occur from both sides, ive been deleted more times than i can remember and premoderated for weeks at a time on 5 occasions, and now banned, and the banning was from commenting on a whaddya thread. However deletion/premd and banning does not seem to be an issue for the guardian, no matter how many times its brought up, it's always ground hog day

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  32. For those that haven't read it, the excellent Mearsheimer and Walt on AIPAC.

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  33. @spike 'for those who havent read it, the excellent mearsheimer and walt on aipac'.
    Ah spike, mate.. I think that link is wasted on here, im sure most have read it and most use it as their sole/only reading material,I believe David Duke and stormfront are fans as well, but for those, lets say, 'more moderate' commentators the 'respectable language of the 'Israel Lobby' is preferable to the discredited age old language of the 'Jewish Conspiracy', it's churned out in a more palatable manner.Mearsheimer&walt(the 2 neo realist international relations professors argued that 'The Lobby' had 'forced', or 'tricked' the USA into acting against it's own interests, by the way spikey, mearsheimer&walts paper has been totally discredited by scholarly critique,yet, strangly, it still functions as an 'authority' for people looking for a respectable way to beleive in that age old Jewish conspiracy.
    Somethings never change eh

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  34. Whoooohooo! It's Friday, at last.

    Picking up on Rapid's point from last night:

    "The serried ranks of the Oxford PPE-ers seem to have had the same thoughts for generations".

    In part, because the teaching there is fixated on the long-tenured academics' favourite theorists, resulting in silo thinking rather than a critical evaluation of alternatives? Or maybe its all directed (dictated) by external funders?

    It's like the feminist stuff on CiF, where ABT and BTL, people seem to be stuck on theories from the 1970s and manage to ignore a body of literature published in the 40 years which followed.

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  35. dave / frog

    Sorry, I released your post from the spam and now there are two!

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  36. @thauma 'now I remember why I stay out of I/P discussions'.

    Whys that? because there are alternative viewpoints on I/P threads,different views, answers and arguements?, but hey, if you prefer running with the herd, your on the right thread here.

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  37. @thauma...whereas here, it's just a case of posters sticking their little bitty fingers in their ears going LA la la we cant hear you'..

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  40. ...Reposting to correct a million typos.

    Friday at last! Just working back up the thread....
    @MsChin, yea group think they call it when people left to talk amongst themselves will all come to the same conclusion.

    @RapidEddie, fantastic posts from yesterday and today. You have hit the nail spot on for sure...but what can we do about it?

    @Sheff and @Annetan, I was interested in the comments about the eReader (Kindle?), as a close relation has a macular problem that means reading normal sized print is impossible without a magnifying glass. So the idea of changing the text size sounds useful. Let us know please how you find it if at all useful.

    I had a look at some of the comments on the CiF thread mentioned yesterday but found it so poisoned I gave up. Bad for your health reading CiF now.

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  41. Just a thought for those who appear to be losing posts, what browser do you use? I have not had a problem with Google Chrome running under Linux Mint. Might be worth a try even using a MS OS [spit].

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  42. Ian

    If your relative isn't a total technophobe, then there are some natty gadgets out there which help the visually impaired. There are some good screen readers if reading becomes too challenging, eg: VoiceOver on the iPad.

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  43. MsChin, thanks, there is a bit of an issue on that front but I will pursue.

    Just looking at Golems good blog someone posted a link to a severely depressing article in the G by Peter Wilby that basically says the West is buggered - no amount of education and knowledge economy flim-flam will help as middle office work can be off-shored (and in fact is). I know this for sure as it has happened to me and my mates in IT and how that was not obvious to anyone in power can only mean they are either stupid or in the pockets of big bizz. I guess it is both.

    Linky: The awful truth: education won't stop the west getting poorer

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  44. Any answers regarding any of the points i raised re Israel Lobby, Nah? still the fingers in the ears. going la la la ... i guess it must be difficult what with sheffs ex (the hotline from Egypt) being an englishman) dave in France(again ex pat/ montana who cant be bothered to answer any points( because it's probably too difficult to locate where the Middle east actually is, oh yeah and Aipac are 'evil ' Zzzz,, same old same old...maybe she/you really are too think to have a come back to, answer, debate, disagree.. I mean I know montanas your oracle.. like a fat lactating dog and you lot as the puppys suppping the milk) glup glup , either you are too thick or to prejudiced to answer points,@ spike, also you are way too prejudiced in your own spite that you also are unable to answer anything(where are ya located again ...france or spain ??... i forget? its pathetic., oh and i forgot the prick dave in france..... anyway keep on keeping on UT, your doing a great job, its good for a larf anyway, and its been a blast, i think the overal sentiment on UT is 'tory/libdems are cunts and I hate everyone and I dont want to talk..about anything else.. because it's my party and i'l cry if i want, and my toys are on the floor too' yep. you'l go far with that attitude and with that level of debate im sure.it will be stimulating for all.

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  45. anyway it s been good in a non Kantanian kinda of way..

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  46. @smtx10; ah, now I get it. you've come on here to try and pick a fight in order to dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with you as an "anti-semite".

    Well it's no bloody wonder you've cleared the thread since I wouldn't expect anyone on here to fall for such a pathetic ruse.

    No doubt you will be back shortly to accuse us all of being "anti-semitic" for simply ignoring you.

    BTW; I don't comment on I/P issues or any other religious tosh but that's 'coz I'm a dyed in the wool atheist.

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  47. but the weirdest thing is that those two were really bright sparks, more intello than me by far, but they had a complete blind spot on the subject.

    See, and what I find odd is that every Jewish American I've ever known has been a pretty vocal opponent of Israel's actions. Either I've just been meeting the ones who do, or AIPAC is even out of step with most American Jews.

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  48. Anyway, Eddie, James and Atomboy have, between them, pretty much nailed the analysis of our domestic situation so where does that leave us?

    Maybe we could all write to the compilers of the OED and ask them to re-define the word "democracy"!

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  49. No checkov, i was just wondering why in the flurry of earlier posts re aipac/ lobbys /conspiracies, why did no one reply to mine at 17.00 spooky aint it if you have a rhetort to the points i raised feel free

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  50. To insanitocracy, chekhov?

    Hi Montana.

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  51. @IanG
    "I know this for sure as it has happened to me and my mates in IT and how that was not obvious to anyone in power can only mean they are either stupid or in the pockets of big bizz. I guess it is both."

    Yeah, well I came to pretty much the same conclusion; either our political leaders are stupid or they are liars, neither of which "qualities" qualify them to lead us!

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  52. @ montana,' all the Jews you've met seem to agree with you yea? all in unison... in reality, id hazzard a guess you actually havent met many Jewsbecause three jews in a room is an arguement, you sure as hell aint met many morrocon/russian ones, anyway how is iowa (or wherever u live) these days? quite i'd imagine.) oh yea sorry i forgot (the silent treatment from you and your cockjockeys

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  53. anyone else on here got a thought about my post at 4pm? nah.. thought not, keep taking the tabs.

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  54. @ 17.00 i meant, ah well wots the differance, im sure spike will be on in a bit

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  55. @montana and what about 'all the jews you havent known'? do they count in ur small mid west world?

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  56. @smtx10; did you read my post? I don't comment on Jewish/ Arab issues 'coz I know precious little about them. Why would I stick my oar into an arguement I know bugger all about?

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  57. @chekhov, you write 'I dont comment on jewish/arab issues coz I know precious little about them', yet in your earlier comment to me you write 'smtx ah now I get it, you come on here to try and pick a fight in order to dismiss anyone who disagrees with you as an anti semite'

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  58. yea ms chinny chin chin nite nite sleep tight dont let the anti semites bite, amazing thread this by the way montana, the width and breadth of discussion is immense.. im sure eddie will rock up in a bit about atos or sumit,(maybe leni too) meanwhile ignoring every other comment, but, in a honey clove thats what u get, anyway.. see you on Cif sometime me luvlies..Oh and il be back.. cos your indifferance/hypocrisy amuses me.

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  59. @smtx10; ok resort to your "strawman" if you want, it won't wash on here!

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  60. @smtx10; BTW, you should be advised that most people on this site know when the goalposts have been moved. We might be thick but we are not entirely stupid!

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  61. @chekhov straw man? a plain answer would do, what is it you disagree with,? by the way i couldnt give a fiddlers fuck what washes here on some cock sucking thread where all opposistion is silenced, its quite funny really . anyway no probs. enjoy ...

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  62. 'by the way i couldnt give a fiddlers fuck what washes here on some cock sucking thread where all opposistion is silenced,'

    Good for you.

    Are you gonna fuck-off then?

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  63. @ navro...no.. answers would be good , i love to see people squirm, especially cock jockeys on here

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  64. UT's communal answer by the way of navro 'are u gonna fuk of then'. ha ha ..funny, why dont u post a tune or sumit

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  65. 'smtx10; of for fucks sake, do you deliberately get hold of the wrong end of the stick?
    Ok I'm not commenting on anything to do with Jews or Arabs or anyone else with a religious persuasion will that suffice?
    Btw; if I promise to stop slagging you off for being a "God botherer" will you return the compliment and allow me to be a heathen?

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  66. @navro. opposition should never be silenced

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  67. anyway im off for the night, real stimulating conversation tonight guys... great points...

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  68. Helloee

    chekhov

    Is the scanner working yet ?

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  69. @chekhov, you can be what you want to be,where did I say you couldn't... im just amused at this site, the way it shuts down any voices that dont sing from the communal hymn sheet(a bit like the guardian) anyway, the floor is yours, all the best companero

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  70. @navro, opposition to voices which differ, for example no one answered my comment at 17.00 even though they had been working themselves about 'The Lobby' all afternoon. anyway not to worry.. hasta luego

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  71. im off in ten though(if thats any help)

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  72. LOL smtx - I was only taking the mickey. :o)

    You do seem to get stuck in a groove sometimes though, love. It's good to change the record from time to time...

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  73. That would be a 'Groundhog day' for everyone then?

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  74. @bb everyone gets stuck in a groove now and again, anyway feel free to change the vinyl now as im off, except i have always loved scratches in vinyl, i must say its been pleasant talking to myself this evening... a very good evening to one and all. shalom salaam and chaba chi

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  75. @smtx01; I don't think this site shuts down voices at all. On the contrary it accomodates all sorts of nutters like yourself who are allowed to post without being "pre-modded" or banned!
    Actually I don't think you are a "nutter" I hope you are just like the rest of us on planet earth and just a bit confused!

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  76. Some of you might remember that a few months ago I mentioned I was trying to help a school in Bulgaria. Ran into some problems initially but am back on track now.

    the project has expanded to 4 schools in a wooded valley with small schools in each village.

    We now have an offer of a whole schoolful of furniture from a junior school which is being fully refurnished . Something of an embarrassment of riches as we now have to transport them !

    One of the schools is trying to expand to include classes for young adults - catering mainly in the hope of providing jobs in tourist industry

    smtx

    I am not too keen to offer an opinion on AIPAC - for two reasons.
    The first is because there are many opinions on the continuing support USA gives in financial terms to Israel while many Americans are homeless. We now have JStreet which presents different views.

    We have some analysts in both US and Israel who think the 1.3 billion a year to buy US arms and ordnance is harming the Israeli armaments industry . There is some evidence to suggest that AIPAC'S influence is waning.

    I am personally opposed to the manufacture and trading arms - legally or otherwise. I also very much didlike the US use of the veto in UN- again for many reasons , not all to do with Israel. I don't like the misuse of power.

    It is complex and is really for the people of USA to decide how their money is spent - particularly as so many of their own people are suffering.

    My second reason is that you are again in a snarly mood - for no good reason that I can see.

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  77. Leni
    "It is complex and is really for the people of USA to decide how their money is spent - particularly as so many of their own people are suffering. "

    Agreed. Sad isn't it. People often go against there own interests. Here 10 million people voted for the Tories, the usual voter base being the relatively wealhty members of the elderly and retired, so the actions of the gov won't affect them, especially if they have a good pension fund.

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  78. Charles

    I hope you are feeling more settled again . You were rather upset a few days ago. You described yourself as 'unemployable'. This is obviously untrue - you may be currently unemployed but that is not the same thing.

    Your Russian trip is off you say - this is a shame but the opportunity will probably come round again.

    Do you have a clear idea of where you want to be going - jobwise etc ? What would you ideally like to do ?

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  79. I'm better Leni in that my day does not consist of sleeping for 12 hours and feelng incredibly numb and listless, but I'm not great.

    I'll continue studying but I won't get anything out of it for a few years yet.

    I'm not sure where I'll be going jobwise. If I could get decent work with decent enough pay then anywhere in the EU would be fine, although I'd have to learn the language. I'm learning German (albeit slowly) as well as Russian so Germany or Austria would be lovely to live and work in, although I don't have any transferable skills.

    I'd like to socialise more also, I suppose I can see the raison d'etre for physical universities, it's a place for people to meet. I don't really have a circle of friends here. In part it's my own fault as there are many opportunities to meet people but I've not been enthusiastic about it.

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  80. Charles

    I have hermit periods when I spend a lot of time on my own. I am aware that this can become a way of life so make sure these periods are short.

    so called 'people skills' do not come naturally to everyone but can be learned - they need to be practised which means meeting people. You have to have the courage to be yourself and to realise that nobody is perfect.

    We all have transferable skills - often only discovered in a practical situation- not all need to a resukt of work orientated training.

    A good place to start is to think about the things you enjoy doing - which skills you use when doing these things and in which other situations or tasks these skills can be used -much of this comes from confidence of course. Confidence is easier to build if we share tasks or social situations with others - other people can be very supportive as well as often needing help or support.

    I know you volunteer - do you meet any of the people you know from there socially ? Good place to start.

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  81. Well, in some ways yes Leni. I've certainly got to know a fair few people at one of the volunteering places, the otehr not really because they are mostly middle aged churchgoers, nothing wrong with that, just not my social set. It's also a helluva lot more formal, it's a charity that runs a centre providing counselling.

    Other than that I agree with what you say. I don't have particularly great social skills, but they are certainly much better than what they were. See, the thing is I don't want to regress to how I was between about 18-21, those were really awful times, and I was glad to finally make steps towards independent life, leaving my dysfunctional family home and starting studying, although I failed to find any work

    Anyway, to bed methinks, NN.

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  82. Oh montanana manana i want to leave you with this song 'why 'dya do it' marianne faithfull( reminds me of you) I dont know wHY, Any way hasta lueego

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