20 March 2009

Okay - well that was fun!

Apparently we all had a grand ol' time over on the Bidisha thread.  It's still open, so the fun isn't over.  I wish I'd gotten into the Harker thread a bit sooner than the last post!  Oh well.  Kiz suggested summat about what's on your MP3/iPod.  Not surprisingly, about half of what's on my computer (no iPod for me) is Terry Hall in some form - Specials, Fun Boy 3, Colourfield, Terry, Blair & Anouchka, solo, and I have the Dub Pistols version of Rapture (I actually like it better than Blondie's original.  Middle-aged white women should not rap.  Shouldn't even think about it.)  Apart from that, mostly I only have one or two songs from various people - my taste is all over the place. With a bit of luck, that will change a bit later tonight and I'll have the album "Manden der ønskede sig en havudsigt" by the wonderful Danish band TV-2 on there, too.  A sampling of the other stuff:  Blur's "To the End" just ended and GooGoo Dolls' "Iris" just started.  "Big in Japan" by Alphaville is the first thing, alphabetically.  "Roland the Headless Thompson Gunner" by Warren Zevon is last.  The Cardigans' "Lovefool" is the most embarrassing thing on here.  Queen, The Jam, Stone Temple Pilots, Petula Clark, They Might Be Giants, Squeeze, Nanci Griffith, Echo & the Bunnymen... oh, and another song that only scherfig would be familiar with - "Tik Tik" by Kim Larsen.  That's just a bit of it, but I'm guessing most of you now know much more about my taste in music than you ever wanted to.

A point of business here - if anyone would like to be included as an author - meaning that you can start one of these posts & not just comment - click on my profile & e-mail me.  I will then e-mail you an "invitation" that will enable you to get on as an author.  Kiz has already become one and 100 are allowed, so we've got 98 spots yet!


  1. Crap! I missed the bit about whether or not the artists are "acceptable". If you disregard the fact that Jerry Dammers is apparently a niblick shy of a full set of clubs these days and assume that Scott Weiland has stuck with the rehab, as far as I know, the only artist on my playlist that Bidisha would have a problem with is Pete Townsend. Vocalist for Mecano is a lesbian - and a very pretty one, at that, so Bidi might be downright thrilled with them...

  2. Great idea! That's the best thing about having this site: you can pick up any thread you like without someone else deciding it's off-topic.

    I should probably be embarrassed about half of my collection, if I had any shame. My only criteria is whether I like something.

    Take /watch?v=sADBdkcS7_wthis for example. It's not even in tune, for god's sake!

  3. This comment has been removed by the author.

  4. You're gonna have to try that again, martillo.

    While you're there - this is my favourite thing on YouTube:


    No clue whether Bidisha would approve!

  5. That's great, Montana.

    I suppose more to the point is this. It could have been appropriated by many other ideologies, without a problem. Is it evil to love this song?

    And what about this version? (only discussed here; can't find the song on youtube).

  6. A new thread has been born from the ashes. You really are a star for setting this site up Ms Wildhack.

    Can i ask a question folks - Has anyone seen Slumber Party Massacre 3 or Slumber Party Massacre 1 or 2?

  7. "Middle-aged white women should not rap."

    I must show this to my mother.

  8. I've never seen the movie, but the song is beautiful. The comments, however, are scary as shit. Yes, you're right - it could have been adopted by any ideology and the 2nd clip in your 9:10 comment shows that. Given what the Specials stood for, it could be interesting for them to play with that one. (And like Harvey - the fact that they're now middle aged men would add a certain ironic poignancy.) Terry Hall's voice would certainly carry it off well. And that leads me to the 1st vid - curses upon you! I'd managed to live all this time blissfully unaware of the Twinkle catalog of music. And given how freaked out I've been for the last couple of days about Natasha Richardson's death,* I could live without having the chorus, "Please wait at the gate of heaven for me, Teh-erry" going through my head.

    *Last week at school, the English teacher & I were discussing my singleness & the lack of age-appropriate men here. She said she wished she could get George Clooney for me. I said that Liam Neeson's about the only actor I find attractive, but that pesky Natasha Richardson was in the way. Now, I know I didn't wish her dead - it was just a stupid, facetious comment, but it's just a little weird. I've probably never uttered a word to anyone about finding Liam Neeson attractive and I week after I do and joke that he rather inconveniently has a wife, she dies in a freak accident. Irrational, I know, but I've been racked with guilt.

  9. Erm - the above was directed at martillo, in case anybody is confused.

    Now, Jay - Gee - I'd have thought the boxed set was in any reasonable person's DVD library.

    Matt - Mom going through a bit of a mid-life crisis?

  10. Oh well, I'm off to the beach for the weekend. Sorry about Twinkle, Montana. My wife says Bardem is the most attractive.

  11. Montana: Yes, she's taken to calling herself Mizzy G-Belm, and shouting "yo, motherfucker" over the Achy Breaky Heart backing track at the local karaoke night.

  12. Oh yeah, and don't feel guilty...

  13. On the original topic, I don't have an ipod, but selecting shuffle on MediaMonkey on my pc for 10 tracks produced the following list:

    1) Catherine Wheel - Receive
    2) Sigur Ros - Inní mér syngur vitleysingur
    3) Squeeze - Third Rail
    4) Big Brother & The Holding Company - Roadblock
    5) The Beatles - I Will
    6) Pink Floyd - Mother
    7) Traffic - Empty Pages
    8) Buddy Guy - I Can't Quit The Blues
    9) Ultra Vivid Scene - The portion of delight
    10) The Blue Aeroplanes - What It Is

    Nothing particularly embarrassing there imho, although it's hard to find many people who will admit to liking early 90s shoegazing bands (no. 1) these days.

  14. Here's just a few of my favourite things on my mp3 player:
    My top band at the moment is QOTSA, utterly fab music. Bid would approve of their name surely? And they also once kicked someone out of the band because he beat up his girlfriend. The Desert Sessions has a couple of dodgy songs though...
    Got some Wipers, American proto-punk stuff... Brilliant. But have no idea about their credentials in other respects..
    Black Sabbath's Paranoid is on there, the only Sabbath I like... love it in fact. As is well known, Ozzy has tested more drugs than Phizer, but rumour has it that Sharon may beat up on him so i can't be too harsh on him and paranoid is a great album.
    Got quite a bit of girly stuff too. Amy Winehouse Back to Black. Still not bored of it however big a train wreck the girl is... Got a fair bit od Edith Piaf... another train wreck and Dusty Springfield, ditto...
    Those were just a few highlights of my music collection... can't wait to see what totally unacceptable stuff everyone else has got...
    Wildhack- wots with all the danish stuff (is it danish..? or what?)

  15. I've just realised what the most completely unacceptable track absolutely ever in my mp3 collection is:

    "Rape" by Peter Wyngarde (the actor who played Jason King).

    It's unbelievable. It combines rape jokes with outrageous racial stereotypes. It's hard to understand the thought process that went into writing and recording that song. It's hilariously, utterly wrong in so many ways.

  16. martillo - good clip, great movie. I strongly recommend Christopher Isherwood's books which were the basis for Cabaret - Goodbye to Berlin (1939) and Mr Norris Changes Trains (1935).

    montana, re Liam Neeson - my mum is friends with Liam's mum. Probably best not to go there, though.

  17. @Kiz - Danish boyfriend in the 80s. He was a dirtbag, but he introduced me to TV-2, who are brilliant. "Tik Tik" is the only Kim Larsen song I know, but it's beautiful. I don't have a clue what "bevolution" is all about, but here's a listen:


    And here's a TV-2 vid if you want to check them out:


    I want Steffen Brandt (the lead singer) to read me bedtime stories!

    @scherfig - Someone recommended Isherwood to me a long time ago and I never got around to reading him. Think I'll go over to Amazon & order one. You're not hinting that there's something about Neeson that would put him on Bidisha's banned list, are you?

    Matt - sounds like Mizzy G-Belm be layin' some sick rhyme, bruthah.

    And martillo - the beach. Really? The beach. As if you haven't already done enough to make my weekend miserable, you have to pour salt in my open wounds by telling me that you're off to the beach....Bastard.

  18. What are these MP3s of which you speak?

    Spinning round my phonographic gramophone player at 33 revolutions per minute lately has been:

    From the 'Crikey they don't make 'em like that anymore' shelf:

    Rotary Connection feat Minnie Riperton, Songs / Hey Love. Hippy soul at its finest.

    From the 'Crikey they do still make 'em like that' shelf:

    Future Sound of London - Environments II. Like being transported back in time to the chillout rooms of 1991.

    From the shelf marked 'Sniffing mournfully into a large malt at the desperate, sad beauty of the world':

    Anthony and the Johnsons - anything and everything.


    Sigur Ros - anything and everyhing.

    From the large, creaking shelf marked: 'Stuff Ally loves that makes the rest of the world scratch its head and nod sympathetically':

    Helios - Caesura

    From the short shelf marked 'Unheralded geniuses who we still love even though they now work with fucking Coldplay':

    Jon Hopkins - Contact Note.

    And finally, from the shelf marked 'Stuff Montana thinks she won't like but really she will because it is cool as fuck':

    Alabama 3 - Woke Up This Morning.

  19. montana, some more good Danish rock - check these out.


    Kim Larsen/Gasolin

    Sort Sol

    Big Fat Snake

    Dizzy Mizz Lizzy

    Hanne Boel

    C.V. Jørgensen

  20. Any music cred I ever had has just gone up in smoke on the Bidisha thread where I admitted to buying Take That's Greatest Hits.

    Shuffle on Media Player has these as first ten tracks:
    Oye Como Va - Santana
    Some Sweet Day - Fairport Convention
    Beautiful Disaster - Kelly Clarkson
    Diskobox - Beck
    Do Something - Macy Gray
    Weird - Sebadoh
    When You Got a Good Friend - Robert Johnson
    Call off the Search - Katie Melua
    Mozambique - Bob Dylan
    Church - Teddy Verseti, T Pain

  21. Weird:

  22. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChFmlYrLFck

    When you got a good friend
    that will stay right by your side
    When you got a good friend
    that will stay right by your side
    Give her all of your spare time
    love and treat her right
    I mistreated my baby
    and I can't see no reason why
    I mistreated my baby
    and I can't see no reason why
    Everytime I think about it
    I just wring my hands and cry
    Wonder could I bear appologize
    or would she sympathize with me
    Mmmmmmmmmmm mmmmm mmmmmmmm
    would she sympathize with me
    She's a brownskin woman
    just as sweet as a girlfriend can be
    Mmmmm mmmmm
    babe, I may be right ay wrong
    Babe its your opinion
    oh I may be right ay wrong
    Watch your close friend baby
    then your enimies can do you no harm
    When you got a good friend
    that will stay right by your side
    When you got a good friend
    that will stay right by your side
    Give her all of your spare time
    love and treat her right

  23. I do have an i-pod and I keep promising myself I'll transfer my CD collection onto it -

    So far I only have
    Abba (yes I know but daughter loved them when she was little - memories! partly why I loved Mama Mia we saw it together!)
    Bob Dylan Times they are a Changing
    Niel Diamond Love at the Greek
    Equally Cursed and Blessed Catatonia
    Bridge over troubled water
    Could spend all day transfering stuff! Anything from from Beatles to Beethoven.

    You lot are making me feel old! there's nothing that fixes you in your decade like pop and rock
    is there?

    I really must take a day out and do it.

    I've got loads of vinyl too. Need to treat myself to one of those turntables that transfers vinyl onto your computer.

    My mother said she could never find the time to do stuff after she retired - know what she means now.

    Re: Bidisha's thread - there were some good points hidden in there somewhere - like the effect of becoming famous and wealthy when young for example and the corrosive effect of celeb culture. But it all got buried in a misogyny rant.

    Just not on her planet (thank God! or I would if he existed!)

  24. Ok,my 10 tracks after hitting shuffle:

    1. She - Green Day
    2. Alwayz into Somethin' - NWA
    3. Paint it Black (Live) - R.E.M.
    4. Universally Speaking - Red Hot Chili Peppers
    5. 3000 Miles - Tracy Chapman
    6. Misty Morning, Albert Bridge - The Pogues
    7. Out of Exile - Audioslave
    8. Somewhere I Belong - Linkin Park
    9. The Price I Pay - Billy Bragg
    10.Comin' Around - Steve Earle

  25. you guys have got me into i pod mode!

    Just gone into itunes and bought The marriage of Figaro (in classical mode this afternoon.

    Off to play air baton!

  26. here's some more tracks I got that i think are just... the biz
    Time has told me - Nick Drake
    Five years ahead of my time - The Third Bardo
    Range life - Stephen Malkmus
    The air near my fingers - White Stripes
    Some men - The Fibonaccis (for Bidisha!)
    Hurt - Johnny Cash
    Small car - Marvin Pontiac
    No one wants an Alien - Honey
    Hanging Tree - QOTSA with Mark Lanegan
    It's the same old song - Four Tops
    I could go on.. and on...

  27. My music collection is so vanilla...

  28. Not sure what you mean by 'vanillla' wildhack... but i like vanilla.. in all sorts of ways...

  29. Vanilla = boring, mainstream. I've never even heard of about half the music the rest of you have mentioned!

  30. well I think vanilla is a dumb term and anyways since when was danish pop mainstream!
    I get loads of music of wild'n' woolly... he's got tons of stuff.. He turned me on to qotsa a couple of years back.. and loads of other stuff too...
    check out the fibonaccis song 'some men'if you've not heard it... it's very funny... apart from being a fab song..

  31. Someone just told me I've been accused me of starting a ruck over here - and I've never been here before... so if I'm being impersonated by anyone... I hope they stop. Ta.

    Oh look, it's the usual suspects... Hi all.

  32. Pikey

    I just realised the other day where your moniker comes from. Must congratulate you on your taste in films.

    You starting a ruck? Never.

  33. @staybryte - spill the beans then? I'm guessing Deliverance...Or Red Dawn?

    @Cath - Price I Pay is a fine song although I'm thinking Little Time Bomb would be more appropriate at the moment.

    Anyone seen monkeyfish btw? He needs to make room in the cell again, I've been pre-modded for asking whether the divine Marina should really be dissing celebrity culture given that she and her beau have made their careers by pushing that freakshow on us.

    Anyway, music...the Braggster's on at the moment (Days Like These), Blood on the Tracks was on earlier, as was Exodus while the sun was shining, and as the night draws on and the beer kicks in Gram Parsons will get an outing.

    Other than them, Weller and the Clash obviously, Tracy Thorn and Emmylou Harris for the purity of their voices and a bit of Northern Soul when Forest have won and I'm in the mood for dancing around the room.

    Not played much Northern recently obviously. But Sandi Sheldon always hits the spot...


    as does Frank Wilson...


  34. Montana you are not alone! In case its got something to do with being over 60 I think!

  35. OMG !In my case its got something to do with being over 60!

    Which means its time I was in bed! its gone half past midnight here!

  36. @ Pikey - I've just had a quick browse over all the comments left here since the beginning and I can't see anything resembling an allegedly PB-instigated ruck. Actually, the place has been wonderfully ruck-free. I think I can speak for all the usual suspects when I say that I hope we haven't offended. You're always welcome here...

    @Kiz - Okay. No vanilla. But, if you're in Denmark, I think TV-2 is about as mainstream as pop gets. I doubt if Bidisha would approve of them, however - one of my favourite songs is called "It's Me You Dream About". A bit of the lyrics (again, translated to the best of my ability):

    I can whisper in your ear
    I can fill you up with lies
    But you've known me for life
    When you've known me for a day.
    Women, I apologise.
    It's me you dream about.
    I'm the world's greatest lover
    When I come, you can go.
    It's a boyish sort of charm
    That you'll never really understand
    Women, I'm sorry.
    It's me you dream about.

    Now, the album that's from is called "Real Men (Can't Take Anymore Bullshit)" And the song "Real Men" is also a lyrical gem - with words that would enrage the radfems. Thing is - they're very tongue-in-cheek and not everyone gets that, apparently. Love 'em, love 'em, love 'em. And the lead singer has just about the sexiest voice I've ever heard. Mmm. I'm getting all warm and gooey just thinking about him...

  37. @Annetan - I am hoping that in my case some of it might be that they're bands that aren't well-known by anyone on my side of the Atlantic, but I must confess that my ability to keep current with music seems to have ended roughly when my son was born. I don't think that's much more than coincidence, though. Radio has become so "programmed" and repetitive and the music that they do put on the air makes my taste seem positively bohemian.

  38. Pikey- i don't think we've started any ruck in yr name just yet... but if you wanna start one.. go ahead.. i reckon some one along the line will take you up on it...

  39. Hmm. I was just over at the Graun & opened up my comments. Remember the comment I made about how I tend to not be able to like a sleb's work if I found out something bad about them? It's been deleted. I don't remember saying much of anything in that post other than that. You don't think someone else might have thought I was implying that Terry Hall actually kicks puppies for fun, do you??? Other than the first post I put on the thread - where I pointed out that Kobe Bryant was the basketball player that Bidisha alluded to, I thought I'd been fairly restrained on that thread. Damn. This is going to bug me.

  40. kiz - TV2 are popular, but far from mainstream. Re their lyrics, yes, very ironic/sarcastic and they lose a lot in translation - just to coin a pompous but apposite phrase :o)

  41. sorry, last one should have been to montana, not kiz.

  42. Montana I switched off when 'pop' started to be all manufactured groups with material that sounded like it had been created by a computer. I just don't listen to popular music radio any more and so have become completely out of touch.

    I'm totally out of touch - most of the stuff my dughter listens to I've never heard of.

    I think that, as I went to uni in the 60's when pop culture produced music that was not produced by 'tin pan alley' but by kids in art colleges etc. It was often (but not always of course) about things that mattered too especially folk rock which I was very keen on.

    I suspect that we shall see a resurgence of more popular music that is more than 'moon and june' (though a good love song is fine).

    The best of punk was like that, and I really like Catatonia and the Manics street preachers and not just because they are Welsh! I am listening catatonia's 'equally cursed and blessed' at the moment.

    Love their 'Londinium' expresses exactly what I feel about London I really do 'come alive outside the M25' when I visit the place.

  43. annetan42 - as you went to uni in the 60's, here's some mountain (and I know you're anti-drugs, but hey, it was the 60's), great song anyway.


    Cath, what a brilliant random shuffle 10! I'm guessing your ipod is just stuffed with great stuff! You would love Little Steven's Undeground Garage (another plug - the show's just so much fun).

  44. "Bastard" Montana? That's a bit rude. Can we have a 'report abuse' button? The beach was fab. Don't you have any near you?

    It's one of my favourite films,scherfig. I've read those books, though a long time ago. Maybe it's time again.

    I only carry an mp3 player as protection against other people's music when I'm using public transport. This is what came up today:

    1. Las de la Intuición - Shakira
    2. Silver Machine - Hawkwind
    3. Smoke on the Water - Deep Purple
    4. Malo malo - Bebe and Bidisha would approve of this one in every way
    5. Love Will Tear us Apart - Nouvelle Vague
    6. Terrible Angels - Cocorosie
    7. Yo que soy Tan Guapa - Maria Jimenez and Kiko Veneno
    8. Beat on the Brat - Ramones.
    9. White Horses - Jackie Lee
    10. Jet Boy - New York Dolls.

  45. Your mock indignation is cute, martillo. Have you checked a map to see just how far away I am from anything that could be called a beach by even the loosest of definitions? It's been a long, hard winter. Lots of snow. Lots of ice. Lots of sub-zero Fahrenheit temps. It's late March and it's still only 15° at 2 pm. The grass is still brown and I have yet to see a single red-winged blackbird. I want sun. I want sand. I want to ogle beautiful young Spanish men and feel like a dirty old woman. I'm afraid the bastard comment still stands. You know I adore you, anyway.

    And scherfig - cut a girl some slack, okay? I don't actually speak Danish, so my translating skills aren't exactly professional.

  46. montana, yet again blogs don't do irony/sarcasm/humour so good. No surprise there, but check Isherwood out anyway.

  47. I'd love a bit of snow... we had a few days of it here in Athens last winter.. it was fab.. not so sure I could do it for months on end..
    You can come here to Greece for a beach holiday if you like wildhack... we got the best beaches going (HA! martillo) and some rather stunning young men too...

  48. I suppose I am a bastard, really. I hardly dare tell you that we've decided to move to a beach town for our last year here. Then it's something like this.

    Maybe you should just move here. The girls are worth an ogle or two as well.

  49. I'm not going to argue about beaches with you, kizbot, cos you'd probably win. Still, there are some pretty wonderful ones.

  50. Mind you, you probably wouldn't want to compare the food and wine...

  51. I would say the food and wine is prob on an equal footing.. Greek food is fab... lots of good wine too... and we def pip you on the beaches...
    I shall be off to Corfu for Easter next month... can't wait... Fab food at easter... kokoretsi is my easter favourite...

  52. scherfig - A copy of "Berlin Stories" left the Amazon wharehouse in Coffeyville, Kansas, just over 24 hours ago and should reach me on Tuesday. No, sarcasm doesn't seem to travel the tubes of the interweb very well, does it?

    martillo - stop taunting/tempting me with this "just move here" business! I would love to & would actually have access to enough cash to get the sprog & me over there for awhile, but how would I support us long term? It's not so easy for USonians to get residence anywhere in Europe. If you know anyone who can tell me how to do it - get them in touch.

  53. Hank

    Been avoiding Cif for a while because I'm fuckin sick of being deleted, pre-modded and pre judged. Checked the Cohen piece today and found you'd been deleted. Presumably it got through pre-mod and was then deleted on further consideration by a 'legal expert'. Fortunately, it was still there on your comments so I've taken the liberty of posting it here since the irony was just too good to be true.

    PS Montana if there are any libel issues, blame the Guardian; it was lifted from their site.


    "Mortgages make cowards of us all."

    What a great line. Thatcher and Joseph understood that only too well. Hell of a shame that their cynical use of state subsidies to buy off the militancy of the workers by selling them what wasn't theirs to sell has bitten their neo-liberal heirs on the arse.

    Good article, Nick. But there's a better story to be written this week if you're in left-wing mode, and it centres on Harmsworth, the Mail, HMRC and how we are putting in place fiscal legislation to deal with the betes noires du jour, ie the treacherous tax-evading non-doms, but aren't prepared to apply that legislation to the worst offenders, particularly those who are rich and powerful.

    The real clincher in the deal is that there are some who claim to be French for tax purposes, even though they are English born, bred and resident, and use their papers to spew their bile at foreigners. And the French in particular.

    I'm not clear why this story hasn't been splashed across the headlines of the Mail's rivals. I can only assume that there is a conspiracy amongst crooks.

    But, anyhoo, Nick, it might be worth looking into. We are agreed, presumably, that tax avoision is wrong and damaging. And we shouldn't look away from it just because they're adding to the crap that we've left on our own doorstep.

    Recommended (20)#

    I don't own an MP3 player. One of the kids adopted mine when theirs got smashed in a tragic skateboarding pileup. But, at the moment, I'm almost exclusively going with James Brown, Prince and Parliament/Funkadelic. On my drive into work there's a junction at which I'm faced with the prospect of another day of mind-numbing, soul-destroying shit shovelling or the open road, freedom and a fresh start with a new identity.

    Sex Machine, Alphabet Street or One Nation are the only thing keeping my kids from penury, juvenile delinquency and getting to smoke all their own weed. God only knows what would happen if some evil fucker slipped Franz Ferdinand into the CD player. I'd probably just slip the car into fifth, point it at the horizon and try and come up with a fantasy worth fulfilling.

  54. Pikey - who's been telling you porkies then? No rucks over here, its all pretty lethargic in a nice sort of unmodded, un-topic-centred sort of relaxing, meandering way...

    You could come to Europe surely Montana? Teach English at some poncy English school - theres loads all over Europe and as far as i know native English speakers are in quite high demand. If you're a teacher and a native english speaker you can get work just about anywhere cant you? Or come to England, we happily give citizenship to Somalians whose only work experience is explosives and machete wielding, im sure a teacher from the developed world wouldnt struggle too much? Though England is something of a decaying cesspit now, so probably not too exciting a prospect.

  55. Loving this site, I can dip in and out without having only three days to get into, post on and follow a thread!

    My MP3 player is full of covers:

    Among my favourites:

    Alanis Morissette's versions of King of Pain (originally Sting/The Police, I think) and Crazy (Seal)

    Jamie Cullam's Frontin (I forget the original artist)

    Will Young's Hey Ya (Outkast)

    Foo Fighter's Band on the Run

    I like covers, particularly where it's completely different to the original, anyone got any recommendations?

  56. dot, some good (better than original?) covers:

    Bowie/Beatles "Across the Universe"
    Jam/Kinks "David Watts"
    Nils Lofgren/Carol King "Goin' Back"
    Lemonheads/Simon & Garfunkel "Mrs Robinson"
    Bryan Ferry/Bob Dylan "A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall"

  57. In Barcelona there are a lot of schools like the ones Jay mentions, Montana. There are also a lot of US teachers. You could try this link: http://www.a-s-b.com/f4eng/aboutasb/framesetabout.htm

    Versions. I love Brel's 'Le Moribond, am sentimentally attached to Terry Jacks's version and prefer the Beach Boys' one.

  58. Great cover - Credence Clearwater Revival - heard it through the grapevine

  59. Well, Terry Hall's remake of Todd Rundgren's "I Saw the Light" just ended on my iTunes, though the principle difference between it and the original is that it has the mellifluous tones of Terry rather than the nasally whine of Todd - arrangement's pretty much the same. Tel's got quite a list of covers, but he tends to stay pretty true to the originals. In the grocery store just a few minutes ago, I was subjected to the abomination that is Gwen Stefani's remake of "It's My Life" by TalkTalk. (It just occurred to me that they should've done an English language cover of Kim Larsen's "TikTik".) As a complete aside here - the Google Chrome spell check doesn't like "should've" for some reason. Anyone know how to turn it off?

    Jay - the irony of British immigration policy is that , while your government is perfectly happy to allow unskilled Somalis into the country, Americans have to have a 'highly-specialised skill' or be richer than God in order to get residence. I believe the theory behind that is that Somalia is a shithole and its people should be allowed live somewhere else, if possible, while the US is not a shithole, therefore its citizens have to stay there even if it seems like a shithole to a particular American. I'll try looking into the teaching English thing. Thanks for the link, martillo. Now, everyone keep fingers crossed and think happy thoughts.

  60. I probably don't need to clarify this, but regarding the comment above - I do realise that, even though my son & I live 'below the poverty line' by US standards, my life is much cushier than that of most Somalis.

  61. Alternatively Montana, hijack a UK bound flight - something like 19 blokes did that couple of years ago and got permanent rights to reside i believe (we couldnt send the poor dears back obviously, they might get hurt).

    You should look into the English teaching thing, from what i gather there is a lot of work going in virtually any country in the world, what with it being the lingua franca and all.

  62. This Goody stuff seems to be splitting the boards a little, someone please please tell me they are as appalled by the whole charade as i am? Anyone?

  63. Jay


    I feel dirty for just having skim read the thread (and therefore upped the hits for the advertisers) you actually posted though!

  64. Kinda hard for me to say too much about it, since I only know of her from reading the Guardian online, but it seems like a bit too much attention for someone whose only claim to fame (as I understand it) was having been a contestant on a 'reality' game. Yes, it's always a shame when a young woman dies and leaves a small child without a mother, but (and this is where I'm going to sound really insensitive) it seems a bit much to me.

  65. Yes, the saintly Jade (RIP) has left us - she will be sadly missed by a legion of distraught idiots.

    Good news though - the funeral will on the telly and it will be great! - she "will be mourned as she lived – in front of the cameras, her publicist said today."

    Rumour has it that Hello! magazine has already bought the rights to the resurrection (3 days after the funeral, or knowing Jade ;o), 36 hours later).

    NOTE: sarcasm alert here to offset the internet's irony-cancelling effect of the written word.

  66. @monkeyfish - cheers for posting that, mate. You're right, I am in pre-mod so the post on Cohen's thread had to get the ok first before publication, checked in later in the day and was a little perplexed to say the least to see that it had been removed.

    Maybe it was off-topic. Private Eye have been running the story for the last couple of weeks, and have made the point that the nationals are all aware of the story but have refused to go anywhere near it. I don't think that the issue is a legal one so much as the hypocrisy angle. You might think that this would have fitted nicely into their "Tax Gap" series of online pieces though.

    Funkadelic - groovy. My first girlfriend was a Clinton freak. I didn't mind some of the more obvious stuff, One Nation under a Groove still hits the spot but the Parliament stuff was a bit too weird for me. We were only 15 at the time and I'm pretty sure she wasn't dropping acid so not sure what the appeal was for her either. Must have been the wardrobe.

    You still in pre-mod then, mf? Might be worth setting up a new e-mail account. Or might not. I only submitted 4 or 5 posts and 3 of them were either deleted or didn't even get past the mods in the first place, so I'm weaning myself off CiF gently.

    Jay - no, it's not just you. I couldn't believe that the Graun's homepage had Jade's obituary as the centrepiece on Saturday. Too much cheap emotion and not enough of the real thing in this country nowadays. And too much identification with celebrities in favour of finding some real friends. I blame Diana personally. (Well, it makes a change from blaming Thatch.)

  67. Dotterel, re. covers, I second Jay's recommendation of the Creedence version of Heard It Through The Grapevine. It's superb.

    Johnny Cash did a couple of excellent covers recentlyish: "Hurt" by Nine Inch Nails and "Mercy Seat" by Nick Cave. The former is arguably better than the original, the second one is great but as I also really like Nick Cave I'm not going to comment on their relative merits.

    Muse do a cracking version of "House Of The Rising Sun".

    On the comedy cover side, have you heard of Lounge Against The Machine (Richard Cheese)? If easy-listening versions of songs by bands like Nirvana and Radiohead are your thing, try them.


  68. @Matt - "recentlyish"? He's been in the cold cold ground nigh on 6 years, bless him. And you forgot "Personal Jesus" which was a fine song in its own right and totally different to Depeche Mode's equally good original.

    I was talking to my son about Nick Cave t'other day and I decided that I needed a good intro to the man. Any reccomendations, Matt? Ideally a "best of" which doesn't include any Birthday Party, who I vaguely remember without much affection.

    Btw, I'm still ploughing through the turgid responses to Libby Brooks' blog on "Jade" - she only has one name apparently, always the mark of a proper celeb. NemesistheWarlock has done his best to "ground" the debate but the real shocker was seeing Waltz's tearful little eulogy "RIP Jade". Amazing that some people who are bleakly dispassionate about the suffering of whole swathes of people they dislike on the basis of their class or religion get all dewy-nosed about some talentless chancer who's never given a flying one for anyone beyond number one.

    We are going to hell in a handcart, people.

  69. "I like covers, particularly where it's completely different to the original, anyone got any recommendations?"

    Oooh, my specialist subject!

    Richard Cheese is indeed a walking, living, breathing, singing genius.

    Also a big seconding for the Johnny Cash covers records. Hurt is just breathtaking.

    Some other all time favourite cover versions include:

    Julee Cruise - It's the End of the World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)

    Almost the entire collected works of Susanna Wollumrod (as "Susanna" or "Susanna and the Magical Orchestra") - check out her utterly heartbreaking rendition of Jolene

    Another absolute stormer is The Earlies version of Sweet Dreams My LA Ex (don't have time to find it online, but worth searching for)

    Aaargh - I could go on and on, but still have work to do!

  70. Big fan of Dolly's, Ally, but that was lovely. How about Fiona Apple? I love this - bonkers, sexy and scary. Just like my ex-girlfriend...


  71. Jade - awful she died at 27 and apparently lots of people have gone for cervical smears which is a good thing.

    What I really couldn't stand about the Jade story was the really awful things the tabloid press said about her when she first appeared.

    But its part od the 'when |I grow up I want to be a celeb' thing she was part of I really hate. You don't have to work for years honing a talent or qualifying for a profession or even struggle to be really good at a trade. You just have to be famous for being famous.

    The woman herself, well I didn't know her, it was sad she died so young though.

    AS for Princess Di, I did cry all day on the day of her funeral, but my mum had died the previous jaunuary and I hadn't really had a good cry for her, the situation just got that going I think. I've noticed I've been able to 'move on' since.

    That really was a fascinating time though, we changed as a nation then I think I think - and not completely for the better. What it really meant I still don't know The florists did well out of it.

  72. Ah Dolly, me too. What's the best version of this?

    or this, for that matter

    Don't worry, Montana, it's not Twinkle.

  73. The first video is cracking, martillo, but I'll see your PP Arnold and raise you a Martha and the Vandellas...


    and one of these...


    Who did the best cover of the first, and the original of the second? And how do I get the hyperlinks to work?

  74. Says Ally:
    Julee Cruise - It's the End of the World As We Know It (And I Feel Fine)

    WooHoo! Local girl made good - she's from right here in Podunk Center! She's just enough older than me that we were never at school together, but I do remember meeting her when she was in high school & I was in junior high. (The other semi-famous person from here is Marcia Wallace - who does the voice of Mrs. Krabapple on the Simpsons.)

    martillo - those were actually quite nice. Well, since we're all sharing favourite covers on YouTube, this is almost soft-core porn for me. :-) (there's no emoticon for coming over all warm and gooey)

  75. Damn and blast - link didn't work. Here:


  76. Hank - bloody hell, is it really 6 years since Cash died? This kind of thing is happening to me more and more frequently; like the depressing realisation that it's nearly 15 years since records like The Bends were released. Must be something to do with the aging process...

    Anyway, re. Nick Cave & the Bad Seeds, there is one best of album:


    However, it was released in 1998, so doesn't have anything from his last two Bad Seeds records on it. No More Shall We Part and Abattoir Blues / The Lyre of Orpheus, all out since 1998, are both damn good albums. Murder Ballads is good too, although it may not be the best 'starter' if you've not heard much of him before, and there are a couple of tracks from it on that Best Of anyway.

    I'd go for the Best Of and Abattoir Blues / Lyre of Orpheus as your two starters for ten. "Let The Bells Ring" and "Hiding All Away" from the latter in particular *always* make the hairs on the back of my neck stand up when I play them. Wonderful stuff.

  77. I just realised I forgot his newest one, "Dig!!! Lazurus Dig!!!", which for some bizarre reason I haven't got. I shall remedy that sharpish.

  78. Cheers, Matt, I'll tiptoe into the Cave with the Best of, I think, before going for the full-on potholing.

    You're depressed that it's 15 years since The Bends was released? I'm a little pissed off that it was released at all. Over 30 years since All Mod Cons was released btw. That's when you realise how old you're getting. Could be worse though, you might have missed the 30 year-anniversary, or forgotten that you'd ever heard Tube Station in the first place, which is when you're definitely getting old.

    @montana - Marcia Wallace isn't semi-famous in my house, she's legendary. Am I the only one on here to think Edna K looks a bit of a fox in that basque? She's too good for Seymour...

  79. Hank - "I'm a little pissed off that it was released at all"

    Pistols at dawn, Sir. Pistols at dawn I say.

  80. WooHoo! Link-in-a-comment success!

    Hank - that's...interes...um...well. I'm sure Edna would be flattered.

    (Why do I get the feeling Hank's got the whole collection of DVDs?)

  81. It's nowt to do with cover versions and it's definitely not in my iTunes library, but thiswas linked elsewhere and I thought maybe someone here might be as amused by it as I was.

  82. I can't imagine a better version of 'Heatwave' Hank as for the second, the stones wrote it so I suppose it was them. I've got a little document that shows you how to put links in. If you e-mail me through my profile, I'll send you it.

    Warm and gooey, Montana? This always leaves me weak at the knees. Loved that version of She, by the way. I might check Terry out a little more.

  83. Thank god, i'm not alone. It is a shame when any young person, specially mother dies, there's no doubt about it. But she was a nobody, she gave nothing to the world, she was talentless. I just cant understand how such a woman can be mourned like this. 27 pages in the Sun. I bet thats more than Macca will get when he snuffs it.

    I did post, Dot, i know, i shouldnt have done, i just couldnt contain my anger/disillusionment any longer, if other countries were familiar with Goody and her career, or lack of, they would be laughing at us for years.

    I saw one comment, "We all live and die in some way in Jade Goody". Shoot them. They dont deserve life, or free healthcare, or even streetlighting.

    Muse also do very good cover of Feeling Good.

    "but the real shocker was seeing Waltz's tearful little eulogy "RIP Jade".

    Very true, i thought "christ, they got Waltz too". Its a plague.

    "Pistols at dawn, Sir. Pistols at dawn I say."

    Shoot the bastard for me. Bends is a cracking album. I saw Radiohead at the Pyramid stage at glasto in 2003, unbelievable, bout 80,000 crowd, the ground rumbled with the bass from Climbing Up the Walls, Street Spirit for an encore....

  84. Oh jesus, from the new goody article on Graun,

    "Misogyny was always a part of the story."

    Its the perfect storm - Sickening Graun celeb bandwagon jumping combined with their infinite capacity to rave about 'misogyny'...

  85. My iPod shuffle could, conceivably, have been exactly the same as Cath's. Nice that we all share common ground below the surface disagreements.

    For covers, I think Johnny Cash's version of One is far better than the original, and I also like Honeyroot's cover of Love Will Tear Us Apart, and the Twilight Singers' rendition of Live With Me. But my favourite, unlikely ever to be replaced, is Faith No More's I Started A Joke:


  86. Hah! I notice they didn't make it open to comments, Jay. Bloody cowards!

  87. Sorry, damagedoor, it's not bad, but the Bee Gees win it for me.

    It's a pity I can't find Rod's version of 'In a broken dream' on youtube. It sounds so good on the 'Breaking the Waves' soundtrack...

  88. Ah, well - it's never going to be easy going up against the Bee Gees. But I'm happy to remain a lone voice in the wilderness on this one.

  89. Yeah i was pretty gutted, at least with CIF you get to tell these imbeciles what you think of them. The Graun are a sly bunch though, they do this with Bindel sometimes, they know if an article is going to get shredded they protect it (sometimes at least). There should be the option to comment on every single online article, i dont see how that would be difficult for them to do.

  90. They might be wishing they'd done that with Alastair Campbell's piece - 40 out of 94 comments removed so far.

  91. I've just read it, I'm almost a bit thankful that they didn't open it to comments, its easily up there with some of the finest 'fish in barrel' pieces, and although I love to get stuck in with everyone else, it seems slightly wrong when you consider the subject matter....

    There is an excellent cover of Nick Cave, Nobody's Baby Now performed by a female artist whose name I can't recall at the moment....

  92. Headless Heroes

  93. martillo that was awesome!

  94. Jay the sooner everyone stops rubbernecking at the car crash that was JG the sooner it'll be over and the relatives'll be left to mourn in peace, move along, nothing more to see...........

    Thanks all for the suggestions, I've heard Jonny Cash's Hurt, very good, not grabbed by that last link martillo but sometimes things have to grow on me.......

    Keep em coming!

  95. I know Dot, im gonna try and avoid them, they just set me off every time.... It would be nice if the Guardian at least could resist joining in, considering what smug gits seem to run the place, you'd think its a bit low brow for them.

  96. Mods, moderate Jay for off-topic! He keeps going on about some woman called Jade,when we're supposed to be talking about music.

  97. Jay, for the sake of your sanity, don't read the latest Mary Kenny, I clicked on it not noticing a JG reference arghhhhhh!

  98. Yep Dot Mary Kenny has indeed called for jade to be canonised... unbelievable but nonetheless true..
    The campbell thread is a hoot.. has to be the record for most deletions ever..
    And Johnny Cash's hurt is better than the original... and the original is way cool..

  99. Tea and biscuits over at CiF - Ariane's latest.

  100. If 'canonised' means 'shot out of a cannon', I'll sign the petition.

    Oh, and

    "Dee 1 in Heaven, and Jade is up for eviction..."

  101. martillo Either you've linked to the Chicken Shack before, or you and my friend Gareth have very similar taste in music. I've seen/heard that one before, can't remember who's responsible. I know I'm a straight chick and maybe not the best judge, but I've always thought Christine McVie was much more attractive than Stevie Nicks.

    As for your second link - isn't a remake, but for faux Central European silliness - it can't be beat!

    Ariane's got a tea thread, eh? I better get over there.

  102. She wasn't called Christine Perfect for nothing, Montana. Lene Lovitch, I love that! Here's a moving one

  103. Ah, well if you want a tearjerker. And if you can handle country music...

    (This is getting to be like duelling YouTube clips...)

  104. I love those, Montana and I love country in general. How about this?

  105. That, martillo is the only thing Kenny Rogers ever did that was vaguely tolerable.

  106. Kizbot:

    And Johnny Cash's hurt is better than the original... and the original is way cool..

    Oooh. I just saw this tonight while looking for "He Stopped Loving Her Today". You're not kidding - that's beautiful.

  107. One last cover before I'm off to ma bed.

  108. There is hope! someone on Cif is putting the kettle on!

  109. "That, martillo is the only thing Kenny Rogers ever did that was vaguely tolerable."

    No! He also did Just Dropped In, it was in Big Lebowski (all time greatest comedy).

    I will try and avoid this latest JG thread, i just wish the guardian knew what sad wankers they looked jumping on this most shameful of bandwagons. I saw the Marilyn Monroe comparison again on the CIF boards. Death is too good for them.

  110. "That, martillo is the only thing Kenny Rogers ever did that was vaguely tolerable."

    Oh, wash your mouth out!

    Oh come on, Jay, surely you'd have to agree that she appears to have lived her life like a candle in the wind.

  111. Yes, ok, there are similarities with Diana, both equally talentless, both given huge amounts of money for doing nothing, both fawned over by the gutter press, and both caused public mourning on a completely ridiculous scale. If i see Elton Johns chubby face and the opening notes to that song im going to have to resort to violence and probably emigrate to somewhere with less public stupidity, possibly Texas, or Somalia.

  112. You do know for whom that song was written, don't you?

  113. Christ, yes i remember now, oh please dont let them do it, that will just be too much, i would have to give some serious thought to actually emigrating, that would be, no, it just cant happen, but i am slightly concerned it will, he'll probably play it at her funeral with Sky News showing hordes of morons wailing in the street...

  114. Since we're all in a musical frame of mind, here's a thought.

    What songs should be played at Jade's funeral?

    I'll kick off with the humble suggestion that Charlene's poignant, bitter-sweet power ballad "I’ve Never Been to Me" might accurately reflect St. Jade's complex, contradictory personality. The Great British Public will undoubtedly weep buckets as the full enormity of their great loss finally hits home.

    As a mourner said, "Yeah, she dun good, the stroppy bint, din't she? Loadsa dosh,like, but she never, like, found real happiness, innit."

  115. I suspect she'll be forgotten with a month, she has no 'work' to leave behind...

  116. Leave it alone Jay, and come over to the biscuit thread, no mention of her there (so don't you start!)

  117. Alright, im heading over now.

  118. Still pre modded. Just posted to check and see. I might have to make a comeback with a new moniker. Can't decide between 'Tuscan Villain' or 'The artist formerly known as monkeyfish'.

  119. like both those names.. and it's worth pointing out (again) that nev changed his name so many times that in the end the mods gave up trying to ban him... and I think they may now even have forgotten who he is!

  120. Sorry, guys, MODERATION again.

    This was posted two hours ago and vanished without trace.

    "Banned from Britain
    My comment 25 Mar 09, 7:13pm (about 2 hours ago)


    Wilders also has a website......
    ...Until now, Mousawi hadn't had an opportunity to give his side of the story to a British audience.

    This is complete nonsense - YouTube - this is the first one, which I found after about 2 seconds.


    Check out all the others, too."

    Brian, as you are a follower of this thread, perhaps you would like to comment.

    The rest of us might like to speculate as to what guidelines were breached that resulted in my comment ceasing to exist (except on this thread of course - and on my laptop).

    BTW - they've just closed the thead down.

  121. Me too, monkeyfish. I shall return as "The Piss Artist Formerly..."

    Or maybe not. Had a scan of the site today and apart from Jaffagate (it's a bloody cake, obviously, it's not dunkable) there's nowt of interest. Maybe it's the bitterness of the disenfranchised, but if you're just watching from the sidelines, the topics seem to be on an endless loop, the same issues, the same idiots, the same intransigence. Nobody listens, or learns, or accepts the validity of an opposing viewpoint.

    Being in pre-mod and looking in is as stimulating as being, oh I dunno, a Forest fan maybe, listening to a row between Chelsea and Liverpool fans about reffing decisions in this year's Champions League semi, or last year's, or the year before.

    Boring, frustrating and irritating as fuck to know that you've got as much to be right to be there as them, and would be a damn sight more entertaining...

  122. I dunno, Hank, I'm not in pre-mod and I haven't seen much lately to really get my teeth into. I've had more fun here. Cath's religion piece might've been a bit fun, but when there are 5 pages of comments by the time I see a thread, usually things have pretty much devolved into pointlessness. Whatever you two do, don't leave us, okay?

  123. Tuscan Villain is superb, though i fear it may be a very short lived moniker.

    Scherf - been lots of deletions on the subject of the mousawi/wilders double standard, the mods commented saying "shut up" basically so i am going to hold back as they put me in premod at the drop of a hat. I shalll have to just hope the CIF hordes molest them in my absence.

  124. Jay, they closed the thread last night. Says it all, really.

  125. Hank

    Pike Bishop was the name of William Holden's character in The Wild Bunch. Deliverance or Red Dawn were fair guesses though.

    Sorry it's taken me about a week to reply, had a very strange few days...

  126. Oh, and while I think of it, another CIF moniker, Deke Thornton, comes from the film as well. He was the character played by Robert Ryan who tracked Pike and the boys down to Mexico.

  127. The Wild Bunch? How embarrassing! I thought it was a character from Dad's Army. That's probably always coloured my view of pikey. Any others we should know? Hank, for example...

  128. Hank Scorpio was in The Simpsons (one time).

  129. "The Wild Bunch? How embarrassing! I thought it was a character from Dad's Army."

    Don't feel too bad martillo, I did too. Who is Hank Scorpio, someone famous? I've never heard the name before cif.

    Staybryte - interestingly strange? Care to share?

  130. "Famous" Cif'ers

    Hermione Gingold was an English actress.
    John Q Public - cartoon character in Chicago Daily News in the 1920's.
    Sarka - mythical Czech woman warrior - very appropriate.

    There's probably loads more.

    MarchOnRome's name has always intrigued me. His name surely refers to Mussolini's fascists seizing power in 1922. His right wing views seem to support this theory.

  131. My own alias comes from the most brilliant comic creation in literatures history, Ignatius of Confederacy of Dunces.

  132. What about kizbot's? and remind me where yours is from scherfig?

  133. Dot - mine is in honour of Denmark's finest (imho) writer, Hans Scherfig - check him out. Not really translated much into English, but strangely enough, I recently found a second-hand copy of an 1970's English translation of a 1938 novel in a New York bookshop! Only $5 - gave to my brother and he loved it.

    Jay, agree about "Confederacy of Dunces". Fantastic. Does the fact that Ignatius was a grossly fat, masturbating, lazy, work-shy pseudo-intellectual have anything to do with your taking his name? I'm assuming not.

  134. Biskieboo

    People guess at all kind of reasons for my moniker but it's almost completely meaningless I'm afraid.

    Years ago a friend of mine nicknamed me "Staybrite" after the windows firm. It was something to do with my big soppy grin when I'd had a few pints (hard to explain but it seemed to fit). I quite liked the name as it was bestowed affectionately.

    So stuck for anything better and wanting to register in a hurry for CIF, I used that. After a ban I just changed the "i" to "y". It's frankly a rubbish alias but I've got used to it.

    I've gone and thrown away all my mysterious allure now...

  135. "Jay, agree about "Confederacy of Dunces". Fantastic. Does the fact that Ignatius was a grossly fat, masturbating, lazy, work-shy pseudo-intellectual have anything to do with your taking his name? I'm assuming not."

    Well, i dont know about 'grossly'...

    He is the all time greatest creation of any human mind. Everyone needs to read that book, or feel the sting of the lash across their pitiful shoulders...

    Did you know there is a bronze statue of Ignatius in New Orleans?

  136. Jay, yeah - I saw that statue a few years back. And the NO airport shops were full of different copies of the book. I recommended it to a colleague, and he really pissed me off for the next few days by reading it at every opportunity and laughing very loudly. I, of course,had the Consolation of Philosophy :o)

  137. Fortuna spun you a nice uplift on your downward spiral...

    If Reilly were alive, i would unleash him on Caths blog - that would be the highest level of entertainment imaginable.

  138. I wanna see the statue...

  139. Jay, here's a pic - dig the headgear. Try wiki's Confed... page too for more detail.


  140. IM on fucking premod now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I havent abused any author or anything, this is fuckin crazy.

  141. Im gonna def visit that statue at some point, its on my list of things to do bfore i die. Whats the city like?

  142. What did you do Jay? (I assume it wasn't for your views on biscuits?!!?)

  143. I cant believe im back in the stinking smug gulag for, i think, posting about 3 times about the apparent double standards of letting just about everyone write for the guardian except Wilders. Thats enought to get you in premod it seems, criticising editorial policy for double standards. CIF can be so shameless sometimes.

  144. Well, before Katrina it was fabulous. Incredible food too. Dunno what it's like now.

  145. Dot - i posted, literally about 3 times i think, on different threads, spread across about 16 hours, that they had let Mousawi, Binyam Mohamed, now Abdullah, Blears, all write on CIF, particularly Mousawi who discussed his ban to coming to Britain, and i said why didnt Wilders get the chance to discuss his UK ban? The answer was because Wilders has his own website (completely risible response). I mentioned it again on the abdullah thread as he is simplky the latest to be invited to the guardian, tried to post again - premod.

    I could sort of understand my other two premod sentences, but this is just shameless on their part.

  146. Jay,

    Hmmm, yet another thing to add to the "Time to ditch CIF" list I've been compiling for a while.............

  147. I would love to ditch CIF for this sort of nonsense but they do get a lot of interesting writers and a lot of interesting posters, its very annoying, they act like censorious little children who cant take a bit of criticism on their bloody comment is 'free' website. Very, very annoying.

  148. Biskieboo

    I'm sorry, I've just realised that I completely and utterly misunderstood your "care to share?" remark.

    Thought you were asking me about my alias and responded with possibly the dullest tale you'll ever read anywhere.

    Humble apologies. I can only say in mitigation that I am a booze-addled simpleton.

    Oh and my strange week defies coherent explanation.

  149. May I be the first to point out that our generous hostess, Montana Wildhack, was the beautiful B-movie starlet with whom Billy Pilgrim was locked in a Tralfamadorean zoo.

    Kurt Vonnegut, Slaughterhouse 5.

  150. staybryte - no worries. I'm often surrounded by weirdness, was just curious.

  151. Sorry, Ally, but no, you may not. We already know.

    Come on Staybryte - you have to explain your strange week now.

  152. I notice you've been deleted for the observation that you find the Guardian amusing, Jay. You probably need to born again.

  153. Yep, the comment "You do make me laugh, Guardian" is just too obscene to be left standing. Like little children, i think they got the strop about my double standards jibes so went back over all my posts and hacked away about half of them, virtually all my comments on the women IT thread have been removed even though it was all pretty light hearted, bar one i think (luckily its the snipe at BTH that was left alone, maybe the mods agreed with me).

  154. I honestly can't believe that such an innocuous comment was deleted. It could even be taken as a compliment and yet still!

    You've really pissed someone off Jay, I completely admire your style and your taste in biscuits. You are a force to be reckoned with and I salute you.

  155. Jay the trouble is about all this deleting and banning nonsense is that we are always left guessing as to WHY.

    The thing is some posters seem to be immune even if they lie about other posters or make very unpleasant comments about them while a mild comment about some above the line commenters will get you banned.

    Its Kafkaesque frankly.

  156. Speaking of vindictiveness, I've noticed that some posters have been 'disappeared'. Does anyone remember IvanIvanovIvanovich, for example?

  157. Thanks doohnibor, i do try to offer what biscuit knowledge i have to the masses. You really must try the caramels, then we can discuss. Though remember, they are not the sort of biscuit to offer a stranger.

    The comment didnt get deleted for hours, nor any of the others on that thread, thats what makes me think they threw a hissy fit over the double standards thing and then went through all my posts deleting virtually everything.

    Hi annetan - im pretty certain it was about 4 posts of mine saying double standards because they ahve given so many people a chance to tell their story on cif except for Wilders. They responded - its because Wilders has his own website, so doesnt need the coverage. A real low point for CIF excuses. Anyway, i posted another two comments, one that evening, one the next day on a different thread, none of which were abusive, next thing i know im on premod. Usually they email me back when i email them too, i have sent them 3 emails about this premodding and havent got a single response.

    You are completely right too about poster bias, certain posters can lie continually about multiple other posters and call for 'gendercide', not a thing gets done, yet for other posters it only takes something pretty mild and bang - they're in premod.

    Its days like this i remember when Seaton comes on the boards telling everyone that they must be imagining all these problems with moderation, that they're bored of listening to our complaints, that everything is perfect and run strictly according to the holy community guidelines. There is nothing in the guidelines saying criticising editorial policy will get you in premod, and nothing saying that posters who Mr Seaton and the team take a dislike to will be rigorously deleted for the most minor infringements. Its shamelessly partisan.

  158. What happened to SwiftyBoy? I rather enjoyed his comments....

  159. Yeah i wanna know where Swifty has gone too, he was one of the funniest posters on CIF and a real master of buzzword batsman, a classy strokeplayer if ever i saw one.

  160. is it me or is cif playing up again, not loading pages and comments etc? Seems to do this every few days.

  161. Re Guardian editorial policy - given the plethora of rape articles on Cif recently (today John Yates) on the back of eg. Worboys and Reid, it will be interesting to see the Guardian's take on the Peter Bacon case. I couldn't find any reportage of the case on their news pages today. This case speaks directly to some issues which have been thrashed to death lately - drunken "consent", public opinion, "false rape" allegations, conviction rate, name of defendant (but not accuser) made public etc.

    Yet, not a word on this from the Guardian to date. Will there be a comment piece tomorrow, perhaps?
    Of course that would be a gift for the likes of Len Firewood et al, but surely it still should be discussed?

  162. Just looked at the Ada Lovelace article. managed the first page and the couldn't be bothered.

    Ada is a heroine of mine bcause when there really was enormous prejudice about the ability of women especially in fields like mathematics (higher maths was said to make women sterile! really!), She was able to do magnificant work.

    As to sexist attitudes well you just have to give as good as you get, you get respected then. Whine that's sexist every five minutes and you won't get liked! Someone like that would drive ME bonkers!

    Its ageism that gets me now if I go and buy computer stuff its assumed its for my son or my grandson, this is puzzling because I don't have either! I've been messing about with computers since the 80's and like nothing better than playing with some new software. But programing? not for me I'm afraid!

  163. The Bacon one is interesting, though the guardian will probably stear clear of it. What i find quite alarming about the Bacon case is that its a situation i have been in a number of times and im sure virtually every man, and woman, in the country has too. Its what people do, they get drunk, both of them, and have sex. It must happen thousands of times every single day in this country. The idea of waking up to someone screaming rape at you and then being arrested by police is genuinely frightening and this seems completely at the discretion of the woman - thankfully most women wouldnt dream of doing this, but still, not all, as demonstrated by this woman. She got drunk, had consensual sex, and is now having the man charged with rape.

  164. Ignore me - Bacon was found not guilty apparently.

  165. I'm really missing the comedy friday afternoon piece which can usually be found on CiF, so I think I'm going to have to retire to the pub.....

  166. i was thinking that myself, there is usually a comedy piece, usually biddy, but today nothing - maybe the monbiot one was intended as the comedy.

  167. Jay by the nature of things its going to be the woman isn't it? AS you say this scenario is being enacted every night of the week and very few women do actually make the accusation.

    It is to be hoped that some people (both sexes) learn from the experience and try not to get quite so rat *rsed in future?(optimistic old thing me!) The risk of catching something very nasty (possibly too drunk to use a condom?) is far far greater than the chance of the woman crying rape I'd say.

  168. Annetan, i agree totally, it is very unlikely to happen because thankfully most women arent crazy bitches. But i think on a principle of law like this, the likelihood is in some respects irrelevant to how good or bad the law is because you are still at the mercy of the woman's decency - it wont be a problem for most men because very few women would do this, so in practice it wont be an issue for the vast majority of people. But for the few, like Mr Bacon, it just seems totally wrong that whether or not you have committed a rape is dependent on a womans good nature. Whereas, for date rape, stranger rape, etc, whether or not you have committed a rape is not dependent on a womans goodwill, it is solely the consequence of your actions. Whether or not she presses charges is down to her, but that doesnt change whether or not a rape has been committed. That isnt the case with this drink law. Or, rather, if that is still the case, then virtually every man in the country is a serial rapist. I think its a truly dreadful piece of law and should be thrown out.

  169. I realised you were in pre-mod Jay when a post suddenly appeared from the middle of nowhere before a post that had already appeared.. I briefly considered posting a "jay's in pre-mod nerner ne nerner" quip but decided it might land me right in it...
    As for my moniker... When I was 16 and a punk i used to dye my hair orange... but I nearly always had roots showing so my best friend started calling me kizzy (a character from roots) and the name stuck and all my friends and family (except the greeks) call me kizzy... My best friend is also anally-fixated and loves to stick bot on the end of everything so I also get called kizbot and kizzybizbot...
    I think swifty got bored...

  170. Yep, i was locked up in the gulag and didnt even get a visit or a phone call Kiz, very hurtful indeed. And, i think i have royally pissed them off because they still havent responded to any of my 3 emails. Maybe they got bored as i still posted quite a lot of comments and they couldnt be arsed reading them all. I only got a day again so not the end of the world but it did send me into orbit for about an hour.

    The kizbot was a punk? Tell all.

    Swifty will be back one day, he wont abandon us like this.

  171. Yes but Jay aren't we all dependant on the goodwill of others? Our happiness can depend on our choice of partner, friends or just the route we take home.

    This is true of everybody. TBH the DPP is so cost conscious these days that they are very unlikely to proceed with any case that even half looks as though its likely to be dismissed.

    I think this is one reason why the number of convictions is so low.

    This tiny chance of a woman being a 'crazy bitch' is certainly not worse than the slight chance that the man a woman dates is Jack the ripper the third (or similar). Yet I feel that it colours the attitude of people towards rape as a crime and maybe prevents genuine victims from getting justice.

    As I said on the John Yates thread this doesn't seem to happen in the case of other crimes, where innocent people are locked up for crimes they didn't commit too often. The police live in society they tend to absorb society's attitudes, this may may tend to make unconscious assumptions about complaints reported to them.

    This is also worrying.

  172. About the rape and drink thing... when it's two adults getting drunk and ending up shagging then I think there should not be a rape conviction but... there are cases like the one where a drunk teen was supposed to be escorted by a security guard ended up being raped and I do think in circumstances such as those it is fair to say she could not have consented due to her drunkeness...

  173. One day in pre-mod, Jay? Lightweight. I've been in solitary for a week now and I've had word that monkeyfish has started a dirty protest on death row.

    Having seen the influx of wild-eyed newbies on Michael White's blog today all jerking off about their new messiah (Dan Hannan?), I'm probably better off where I am.

  174. Dan Hannan is NOT the messiah - he's a very naughty boy! (Sorry, couldn't resist.)

    When you gonna be on the Simpsons again, HANK SCORPIO?

  175. When the Feds let me out, scherfig. It's been a while since that little unpleasantness with the 59th Street Bridge, the threats of world domination and all, but you know what the FBI's like, famous for bearing grudges.

    As I told the mods earlier, I've changed and I'm ready to be a trusted and upstanding member of the community.

    Bastards aren't buying it )-:

  176. Well, who can blame them? (Given your record on Cif and in cartoonworld.)

    I'd trust you, though.

  177. My record on CiF? Blameless, me, it was those other boys.

  178. Hank

    I've been sending in the odd innocuous post just to see what happens. Only about half of the fuckin things make it. I've even been doing it sober. To be honest, I'm not really missing it and the more I see of some of the stuff that does get through, the more I think there's a vendetta against me.

    Any post which stays firmly within the boundaries but doesn't fit with the party line won't see the light of day. I just got something vaguely supportive of seal cubs through. It was the the only successful attempt in four. Matt Seaton is just beyond the pale. He's making himself look ridiculous or at least he would be if his actions were ever exposed.

    Ironically, for such a would be liberal icon, his actions are full-on paternalistic. He seems to think he's protecting us from ourselves; censoring for the greater good of the cause. I think there really needs to be a debate on the founding assumptions of his brand of bourgeois liberal elitism. Many of the tenets and hidden assumptions of his bien pensant ideology are actually the wholly discredited rantings of theory-laden, postmodern 'discourse'. (like Sokal never happened) Too many contributors, even the generally sound Sunny Hundal, suffer from the same affliction.

    Anyway...Friday night...I'm out for a evening of quiet conviviality with maybe a drop of something to break the ice so I might be back for a full scale rant later. Keep well.

  179. @monkeyfish - well, I've been pre-modded twice for complaining about the modding policy, which exposes the hypocrisy at the heart of the Guardian's liberal pieties. We are simply not allowed to discuss it. We are their guests and have to abide by their rules.

    Which would be ok if the rules were transparent and applied consistently. But they aren't, and that's what gets people riled.

    Similarly, we are not allowed to refer to the GMG's fondness for tax avoidance, even on threads on their much-trumpeted Tax Gap series a week or two back.

    Who the bloody hell's Sokal by the way? Where does he play?

    Enjoy your drink. I'll see you for one sometime, maybe. I'll have plenty of time on my hands soon as, like you, I'm ready for a post-Cif trip to the Priory.

  180. monkeyfish, I wouldn't even waste time thinking about Matt Seaton.

    MS posted several times on one of the Myerson threads, saying first "give her a chance" and then "read the book first before you judge" (which was totally irrelevant on a thread which actually questioned whether she should have written it at all - and the book was unpublished at that time), and finally admitted to being a personal friend of the Myersons.

    His response to the shitstorm that greeted this revelation was to fuck off and disappear.

    That finally convinced me of his level of integrity.

  181. "His response to the shitstorm that greeted this revelation was to fuck off and disappear."

    Nothing new there, then. Do you remember saying you'd do a 'my week on cif' monkeyfish? Well, since you've got so much time on your hands now...

  182. Hey martillo, I see you're on the Lewy thread. I just tried to post on there asking why anyone would take any notice of an ex-public schoolboy called Quentin judging a women's beauty contest. A bit like Joy Adamson being on the panel at Crufts.

    Wanna see if you can get it through?

  183. That Lewy thread is shaping up to be a corker.

    Must confess, my first thought was along the lines of 'oh, just what we need, another Gender Studies postgraduate student to rail against misogyny.'

    Then I googled her and thought 'oh, just what we need, another former editor of Oxford University's Isis Magazine.'

    Do they rattle them off a production line?

  184. There you go, Hank. Most of it, anyway...

  185. You're a star, martillo. Muchos etc. Some other bugger's obviously been lurking on here though and can take shorthand better than you (-:

  186. What's going on here? Who's number 3? What are you up to martillo?

    And Whaddaya mean 'my' week on cif? I'm not allowed on cif. It's Matt's ball and I'm not allowed to play. How about... my trip to the supermarket or my Friday night getting stuck with the world's most boring gobshite who I would have ditched except I work with the useless fucker or... my life through the bottom of a glass?

    My week on cif would be: had the odd look, sent in a few tepid exploratory 'test posts', still in premod, got frustrated, read Harry Phibbs, had a truly superb little dig at the Phibbster's expense which failed to make the cut and then went down the the pub where I got stuck with the...oh...done that bit.

    Strange thing is the number of truly innovative, viscious and downright hilarious little one liners which occur to you whenever you're premodded. It's very annoying.

  187. I've done the hilarious, pertinent, bringing down the existing world order with the brilliance of my insight thing tonight as well, mf, and none of those got posted.

    I posted the first thing on the silly Jessica Reed thread tonight and when it hadn't been published an hour later, I reported another post for abuse just so I could poke the mods in the ribs, wake them up and ask them why my post hadn't been published. I asked them to email me to explain why or, alternatively, to email me to confirm that I've been banned. Four hours on and no reply, and none of my posts this evening have been published.

    So it's as good as official. I'm banned. As scherfig said earlier, I probably deserve it. But hell, it hurts when they give free rein to fascists, religious zealots, illiterates and biscophiliacs (sorry, kiz, jay et al but that's the way the cookie crumbles).

    My week on Cif - pissed; hungover; repentant; frantically apologetic; frustrated; angry; resigned.

  188. I don't know, why do you boys do it to yourselves? You just get carried away. Why don't you just count to 10 before you post? Meanwhile, I can't believe you can't rebirth yourselves. It's not difficult.

    You could do a bird's eye view, Monkeyfish, including what you would have said if you'd been allowed to.

  189. Piss off, martillo, you smug Catalan Buddhist terrorist fucking Julian Dicks-sucking...

    ...is Montana modding tonight or has she got a date? If the latter...

    ...Tony Gale was bang to rights, Bobby Moore too, Bogota, bracelets, Leon 1970...

    Anyway, counting to ten, martillo, you're absolutely right, and Dusty agrees...


    You're going to have to send me the link about links, mate...

    Have a good weekend, numero dos.

  190. "Piss off, martillo, you smug Catalan Buddhist terrorist fucking Julian Dicks-sucking..."

    See what I mean?

    Anyway this is about links.

    Thanks for Dusty: haven't heard that one for a while...

  191. @martillo - Cheers for the links link, amigo.

    Have a good weekend.

  192. Montana does not have a date. Montana does not mod. She is apparently a bigger fan of freedom of speech than the Graun but she's going to have to stop referring to herself in the third person soon or she'll drive herself nuts.

  193. Hmm. MF, Hank and Jay all in pre-mod. The resistance has its work cut out for it. Perhaps we girls should try our feminine wiles on them?

  194. Yup, Montana, you, kiz, Annetan and the other left-leaning ladies on here need to do your stuff...

    ...It's time for Charlie's Engels..

  195. Number 3 is Number 6's half-brother - and btw he's not a number, he's a free man.

  196. Hank


    Hope it works...I was testing martillo's link link by trying out a link but it just didn't work. Hopeless


    tbh...now I'm banned, I'm not really looking at cif that much. Like you mate...not one of life's spectators. Same thing happened when I stopped playing football (dodgy knee)...went right off the game for a year or two. It was a real eyeopener. It became clear the number of men I knew with whom I only discussed football. The number of times I bumped into someone and the conversation would go:

    "See the match last night?"

    "No..I'm kinda off football"

    "Oh"...(embarrassed silence)


    Anyway, to my great shame I started riding a bike instead. It makes me f*ckin sick that I've got something in common with Matt Goebbels but I bet he doesn't have a knackered cartilage. He probably does it out of choice ....the useless, effete, drain dead, milquetoast wank stain.