28 March 2009

From Monkeyfish: My Life on cif. Not really…more a list of what’s pissing me off lately

I’m in premod now for the sixth or seventh time; unfortunately, I don’t keep a log of these episodes or indeed a record of deleted posts and I doubt anybody else does. This fact, together with the restriction on discussion of moderation, especially premoderation, means that it’s hard to put together any firm evidence for the recent deterioration in CIF’s standards regarding freedom of expression. A lack of any statistical data and my present state of moderate inebriation (and the spliff I just smoked-in remission kizbot) are why this is unlikely be the definitive narrative on this subject.


An absence of hard evidence or acknowledgements of a policy shift notwithstanding, it doesn’t require a Kremlinologist and I don’t feel I’m out on a limb in stating: moderation has changed; deletions and premods are increasing; it affects some people more than others; and it is having a detrimental effect on the level of discussion and debate. For my own part, there’s been no change of tone or content likely to breach the talk policy. On the contrary, I think I’ve even started to self-censor due to an increased awareness of the potential consequences. This has reached such a level that I now find the restriction (albeit ‘self-imposed’ ha ha) intolerable.


After my third stint of detention I happened to ask Hank Scorpio how he seemed to avoid premod . This was a morning following one of Hank’s (presumably booze addled) abuse fests which resulted in whole swathes of deletions. As I recall, he told me he had been premodded once or twice,  kizbot admitted to one and martillo chipped in that his copybook was as yet unblotted. All this over the course of many, many months; presumably years in some cases. Naturally all these posts were immediately disappeared and I got an instant threatening email. Contrast this with the current state of play.  Factor in Jay Reilly’s and Scherfig’s recent experiences and by any objective measure: ‘Houston we have a problem’. Question is…why? What’s happened…and here, I must admit: I’m stumped.


It would be tempting to think that it was all part of some insidious, Nulabour, control-freak crackdown on sedition. The GMG’s reliance on public sector advertisements leave it wide open to such influence However, over the same period that this situation has developed, any number of cabinet ministers have graced CIF only to hung out to dry by posters protesting their incompetence, hypocrisy, flip-flopping and arrogance. Presumably then, the change of policy was a wholly internal initiative. Whereas the likes of Blears and Blunkett have been ridiculed, Toynbee, sacred cow of the pontificariat, has been wrapped in cotton wool within a protective Kevlar pod whence she is free to spout random, fatuous advice at will.


Naturally, any question of her suitability as a commentator or the pharisaic lack of self awareness is deemed a vexatious irrelevance and instantly ruled out of bounds. This, of course, is a courtesy which is extended to others provided they’re inside the charmed circle. Presumably if Marie Antoinette were a friend of Seaton’s and she deigned to submit a piece on frugal catering, the only relevant sort of criticism would be, say, over the brand of dogfood used in the meatloaf, rather than the more pertinent “Who the fuck do you think you are? …etc etc “. Problem is: it’s always entirely germane to question the authority of the writer. In any other profession or any other sphere, it would be considered a rank dereliction of the actuality to suffer such sanctimonious claptrap without challenging both the quality of the argument and the credentials of the source.


So why the change…and why now?  One obvious answer is that there are undoubtedly rocky, uncertain times ahead. Maybe the Guardian has decided that whatever may result, whatever shake ups and make ups, its credibility must not be impugned. Clearly it sees itself above reproach; keeper of the true flame of the left-liberal consensus. It no doubt draws inspiration from across the Atlantic where the East Coast liberal elite, bete noir of loony Republican, Evangelical nutjobs is roundly vilified as the root of all evil. Transposing the analogy, any criticism it receives can be brushed off as emanating from wilfully ignorant, great unwashed, lumpen trash. Unfortunately, the analogy doesn’t remotely pan out.  Far too many it seems fail to recognise any semblance of a coherent, left wing strain in the Guardian’s output. The criticism they can’t stand, can’t cope with, just can’t countenance comes from the left. And it fuckin well freaks them out.


An example. Bea Campbell, soi disant Feminist Marxist ( hmmm), opining on the miners strike: no mention that it was the great watershed for the working classes in this country; virtually wiped them out as a political force. Why mention that when the a new feminist “it was the wimmin wot held things together” narrative could be introduced? Identity politics ( GMG’s take on the role of the left)  wins the day yet again. Now, undoubtedly, women played a huge part but, from a left wing perspective, surely the destruction of working class political identity, the last vestiges of class solidarity and the triumph of naked self interested individualism should trump the identity hand.  So I mention this and….guess what?

Pissed off? Yes I was.


Now the other thing that gets my piss boiling is the way this metropolitan, media mafia protects its own. Other than wanton alliteration, nothing makes me madder. Consider the Myerson and Gogarty sagas. Two instances when the sordid, media underbelly of patronage and nepotism were briefly exposed. Gogartygate was priceless. The lengths they went to cover it up, justify it and shift the emphasis to try and turn it into a tale of mob hysteria and bullying rather than actually state: “Yes, he’s one of us cos his dad’s in the loop and so he has earned his place at the trough”. Then Myerson: Seaton’s finest hour. “Actually, they’re friends of mine”…and I commissioned her to write for me when I wrote the parenting section…so read the book” I know this is a bit of a hobbyhorse of mine but, mention nepotism at the Guardian….guess what? Suggest that some inane piece of crap by Jemima this or Toby that only made the grade because daddy’s such and such or is best mate’s with such a body and…guess what…90% of the time you’re on the money because guess where your post ends up?


Tell you what: imply that a small incestuous, closed-circle of friends, family and acquaintances gradually populating the whole of Opionville might not be the best thing for openness, democracy or free speech and…guess what? As for Seth fuckin Freedman, I’ve given up. How many years, how many articles, how many thousands of words does it take to say: there’s two sides to this story and maybe the children will sort it out? Oops, I’ve answered my own question: one friggin sentence. Try mentioning this…guess what?


Oh well I’ve got to stop now because this is getting repetitive and I really could keep this up indefinitely. Seems what pisses me off about CIF is just about all of it at the moment. Well, apart from that little sex-bomb Bidisha. Sometimes, I dream of what my life might have been. Me and Biddy, holed up in a Tuscan hideaway, taking potshots at the Patriarchy between chugs of Chianti and rampant jungle sex. Then I look in the mirror. Washed up…broken… forced into exile. If only I’d heeded Matt Seaton’s warnings: “If you’ve got nothing nice to say…don’t say anything at all”. Fuckin Left Liberal my arse-the guy’s a Victorian Paterfamilias and CIF’s turning into Pravda.


But again…why the change…I still can’t come up with an answer. Best I can do…dinner party…Seaton, Toynbee, Ashley, Williams, Whittaker sitting around a table…coke long snorted, brandy a distant memory…working their way through the 10 year old sherry, Crème de Menthe and Cointreau remnants…finally Seaton caves in, slurring badly: “Yeah fuck it Pol…you’re right…the ignorant fuckers have gone to far…no more Mr Nice Guy…they either toe the line or they’re fuckin brown bread”


Toynbee, stroking a purring  white Persian cat nestled snugly in her lap: “ I knew you’d come around Matt…ever been to Tuscany?”


  1. 'Other than wanton alliteration, nothing makes me madder.'
    There's absolutely no point to alliteration unless it's wanton!
    'Fuckin Left Liberal my arse-the guy’s a Victorian Paterfamilias and CIF’s turning into Pravda.'
    cruel... but fair

  2. Great stuff, Monkeyfish. I knew it'd be like that.
    Be reborn and drop a clue or two.

  3. cif is trying to market itself.. or so it thinks.. that's one of the problems...

  4. Excellent stuff, monkeyfish. The hallowed 17th century tradition of pamphlets and polemics is not yet dead. Your excellent points deserve more attention than I can give them at the moment, preferring at this time to witter on about movies and Jamie Lee Curtis's breasts (don't ask - it's hank's fault).

    This could be a great discussion, and it might not be a bad idea to try and get some other Cif'ers in on it. And Guardian folk too. We know some of them lurk here - I wonder if any of them have the balls to take up a real discussion outside their own comfort zone - ie. somewhere where they don't get to call all the shots and delete or ignore comments at will. I won't be holding my breath.

  5. Good job, Monkeyfish. And it's so right that the left's establishment seem to be utterly incapable of having any criticism levelled at them from other lefties. To some extent, I get the feeling that identity politics is a bit more of an issue in the UK than it is here. Our immigration history probably makes it easier for new groups to integrate and our shear size probably has a diluting effect on things like radfem views. Also right-wing corporate control of our media means we have plenty of Coulters and Malkins but no nationally known feminists anywhere near as polarising as Bindel & Bidisha, et al. Rachel Maddow is the only far-left woman on national television that I can think of off-hand and she's so sweet and cute and funny that I think it's hard for too many people to get worked up about her.

    So very disappointing, though, that things seem to have gotten worse even in the 3 months since I came to Cif.

  6. last time i was in the states wildhack was 10 years ago... and when i heard limbaugh on the radio i was genuinely shocked.. there was also someone I heard called dr laura something or another.. dreadful! .. is she still around?

  7. Hmm, what's this about booze-addled abuse from HankScorpio? Where do you get these bloggers from, Montana?

    I'll get back to you tomorrow, mf, when I've sobered up.

  8. Ah, yes, Dr. Laura. Her last name is Schlesinger, but she does go by just "Dr. Laura". The "doctor" bit comes from a PhD in physiology. Raging hypocrite and sanctimonious cow. Still around, I'm afraid.

    Hank, sweetie, there's nothing to stop you from launching booze-addled abuse fests here.

  9. I saw this earlier and saved it, because I had a feeling it was going to disappear. I was right. This, from the mysterious numberthree, was posted on the Will Hutton thread:

    numberthree's comment 29 Mar 09, 2:31am (34 minutes ago)

    Yup, Will, you're right and they are wrong. Fair play to you. Funny old game innit? Unless my memory's playing tricks, I'm pretty sure that you were playing the property ladder game yourself though, and were happy enough to wave your pompoms when the going was good.
    Never mind, that's beside the point. You're one of us, one of the good guys, you're on our side. You care about all of us who've been screwed by the system, not just the latest fuck-up in the system, but the system itself. Aren't you, Will?
    As is the Guardian Media Group itself. So caring, liberal and compassionate. No chance of them using tax havens. And their commitment to liberal values is upheld by allowing Comment to be free. And let us all be thankful for the forum they provide for us to discuss the issues of the day, without censorship or interference.
    These are difficult times for all of us. We are facing an increasingly desperate corporate state which seeks to restrict our basic freedoms of speech and protest. Thank God for the Guardian, which affords us the right to stand up to the tyrant, the bully. Thank God for the Guardian, which stands as a beacon of freedom and liberty, and would never dream of silencing the voices of the little people who post on here.
    Thank God for the Guardian.

  10. Monkeyfish it seems are making very similar points to mine - just more robustly! I don't get the same treatment and i find this worrying. On the Bea Cambell thread I just could get past the first paragraph - couldn't summon up the energy to post. Your opinion is exactly the same as mine here, yes loads of women found their political feet during that strike and thsts important but nearly as important as the fact that it was a devastating defeat for the whole working class the resultant demoralisation is still with us. That anyone who says that HOWEVER they say it could be modded out is very worrying.

    But lets remember that the Guardian is and always has been fundamentally a Liberal paper, this makes it 'to the left' of the Torygraph but its not actually that left and never has been.

    But the fact they keep on claiming that they are deleting posts 'on the basis of community rules' when posts with the same views remain is VERY WORRYING. The reasons DO seem to be to 'protect' some above the line posters from 'abuse' is pathetic as well as sinister.

    A suggestion - perhaps the victims of this should save their posts to another file and then if they are deleted post them here so we can see if there really is a pattern emerging.

    Hint - don't use your Cif screen name!

  11. I would add that I have had abuse from posters who seem to take the Guardian line (especially on feminism) Ultima comes to mind. They don't have the same zeal to protect me (wouldn't actually want them to but that's beside the point).

  12. annetan42

    Yeah..I've thought about a change of name but I kinda feel that would be a cop out. As for the Liberal tag, I suppose you're right but Liberalism can take many forms and the Guardian's current formulation which seems based firmly around the sacrosanct nature of identity is certainly not to my taste or, I expect, that of many others.

    That an individual's background and experiences shape their perspective and opinions is a given. Nobody would deny this. However, to extrapolate such a vapid and irrefutable truism to the acceptance of equally valid group narratives however inconsistent with both reality and the narratives of other groups is a step too far. I detect an insidious postmodern, relativist strain in certain contributors...which is just fine as long as you can raise this and hold it up to examination. In some cases, it is hard to do so without verging on ridicule since their 'narratives' are a fuckin scream.

    Unfortunately, since a lot of the worst offenders are women and muslims, it is relatively easy to chuck back accusations of Misogyny, Racism or 'Islamophobia' when the issue is not with women or Muslims per se but rather with certain women's or Muslim's take on reality.

    I believe in equality of opportunity and protection for the individual; any individual but not for self-defining groups or ideologies. I don't see how a society divided on lines of identity can ever act in solidarity or can even escape isolationism and individualism. Naturally, there are those who favour such a state of affairs; taking their cue from the old imperialist mantra of 'divide and rule'.

    Certain CIF ATL firebrands only serve to further ingrain this state of affairs while simultaneously affecting a radical, anti-establishment, multicultural stance. Strangely, 'Useful idiot' accusations generally survive the moderators' knife; not when you're in premod however, where there is a tacit implication that your posts will be uncontentious, convivial and respectful of the contributors at all times.


    I've a feeling the mysterious number3 actually has a secret lair in the base of a volcano, likes a drink and once bought the Denver Broncos for one of his valued employees. ;)

  13. Shit, I should have emailed you that Montana. Sorry Number3.

  14. monkeyfish I was suggesting you reposted it here under another monica.

    Can see your point about not doing that on Cif although I would be tempted!! if only to be banned for daring to criticise their modding 'policy'.

    Someone will doubtless have found this site and will ban me for suggesting it!

    A thought has just occured, Who owns the copyright on our posts us or the Grauniad?

  15. Interesting. Jacqui Smith accidentally (I actually believe her, for some reason) claims her husband's adult (porn if it were most of us) film watching as expenses. Delicious.

  16. anne, re "copyright", this probably covers it:

    (ii) you grant us a non-exclusive, perpetual, royalty-free, worldwide licence to republish any material you submit to us in any format, including without limitation print and electronic format


  17. annetan2

    Oh yeah...take your point...still...bit late now.

    I'm assuming that's my lot now on cif as monkeyfish. Thinking of returning as a French guy.

    Singepoisson says

    Meester Zeaton, you eez a big bourgeois lapchien. Your sanctimonious bullsheet makes me tres nauseated. Comment est libre mon cul!

    That should fool 'em.

  18. If the voluptuous Jackie is spending all her nights in her sister's back bedroom, then what's her poor hubby to do?

  19. Scherfig but does that mean you can't do the same? Looks as though you just can't claim copyright from the Graun.

    Oh and about jackie's hubby I could make suggestions or this not possible without visual stimulation? No imagination obviously! ;-)

    monkeyfish OOO la la!

  20. I can never get yr clues MF! Who is this numberthree and where is it posting?
    I can't understand why you'd ever bother going near a Seth thread... They're never much fun anyways...
    Have they actually banned you? or they just hope you'll go away if they keep you permanently in pre-mod?
    Annetan- I don't think they'll ever ban you... women may be moderated but no excessive punishment seems to be allowed...

  21. anne, I would understand it as meaning that you are of course still free to post anything you write anywhere you like, but once you have submitted it to the Guardian, then they also are free to disseminate it further if they wish. You have effectively given them permission by submitting your comments to them.

    It's not strictly speaking a "copyright" issue.

  22. kiz, numberthree only started posting a few days ago, and his first post was nicked from these threads. He's now posted 11 times, and 7 of those were deleted! Check his profile/comments.

  23. kizbot...Think I'm just in permanent limbo. I kept trying last week and one or two made it but nothing of any substance...one vaguely supportive of seal cubs and one agreeing with the article. Everything else got mislaid.

    Re the clue, google:

    #Hey, look at my feet. You like those moccasins? Look in your closet; there's a pair for you.#

    I'm trying to be sneaky here but I think I've really blown it.

  24. Got it MF why don't you delete that post now... before any sneaky stalkers get wind...

  25. Although if anyone were actually checking up on here.. I reckon a few other posts may have given them a hint or two, now that I come to think of it... Lets hope they're as slow as I am...

  26. Monkeyfish - given the high deletion rate of numberthree's posts, I'd say that the mods knew something was up pretty much from the get-go, even if they didn't know exactly who numberthree was.

    Maybe we need that threaded board, after all - set to require admin approval before viewing or posting so that we have a place to go where Ciffers who go into the witness protection program can alert others to their previous identity without fear that the mods will see & start culling those posts? It just boggles my mind that they're being so petty & vindictive, but it certainly does seem that certain posters are being held to a higher standard than others. I love the smell of hypocrisy in the morning.

  27. Do a Nev... set up multiple accnts. just keep coming back. They get bored in the end. Nev was persecuted for ooh nigh on a year... and I'd swear they've now forgotten who he is... still posting...

  28. Kiz, scherfig, martillo & monkeyfish - you have been invited elsewhere. Check your e-mail. Annetan, Hank, et al. - go to my profile here and send me an e-mail so that you can receive your invites, too.

  29. I tried to accept the invite, signed in and it still won't let me post. Why? Help the luddite!

  30. Hi monkeyfish - read the blog in full now. Good stuff.

    "Toynbee, sacred cow of the pontificariat.." - ouch. Good line, and a lot of truth in it, but I think her heart's in the right place.

    "...it's always germane to question the authority of the writer..." - absolutely spot on, and this has got me into a lot of trouble in the past both with those above and below the line.

    As for identity politics, I think we're definitely on the same page there. My feeling has always been that the Left lost its way after 1968 with the ascendancy of the middle class tossers who cared less about economic equality and more about shoring up their own self-interest.

    The big problem with the Guardian is that whether it's a liberal paper or a liberal-left paper, the bottom line is that it's a middle class paper and for all the bleeding heart stuff about child poverty in the Third World, the middle class is essentially selfish and will always sacrifice its principles on the altar of its own privileges.

    I was following Number Three's activity with interest yesterday. His point seemed to be that the GMG were happy to exploit the G20 demo in the interests of column inches, but weren't ready to buy in to the radical idea of the protesters that the issues should be openly discussed. The number of deletions on the G20 threads yesterday and today are a clear indication of where the Graun really stands on democracy, free speech and protest. I look forward to Pikey having the guts to bite the hand that feeds him and writing a column on the rank hypocrisy of Cif, home, lest we forget, to Liberty Central.

    Finally, as has been suggested, it would actually be constructive to get Matt or Georgina over here for a frank discussion. The truth is that those of us who are currently sulking and skulking in pre-mod tend to be censored because of the vehemence of our views. The point is that we care about the things we think the Graun should care about and stand up for. We're not daft, nor are we trolls. We have interesting and worthwhile points to make. Does CiF really want to lose us, and those like us, and leave the field clear for the right-wingers, Islamophobes and flat-taxers who have become an increasingly malign and overbearing presence on the flagship site for liberals?

  31. Glad it's not just me scherfig... so it's not because I'm thick?
    Hank- I think it's pretty safe to say that the hardline modding stance has escalated under Matt's stewardship of cif... It was never that bad under Georgina...

  32. Hmm.. I don't know - when I logged into it just now, it had scherfig listed as a follower, so why he couldn't get in is beyond me. I don't know how these things look when they get to your end. I'm going to log back in over there and see if there's something I need to do to let you see it...

  33. @kizbot - is Matt actually head honcho now? I thought he was still Goering to Georgina's Fuhrer. Oops, Godwinned...

    I stand by what I've said above though. We know that Brian Whittaker is keeping a (benevolent?) eye on us here. Maybe we could get him involved in a dialogue. Like you, I love CiF, exasperating as it is at times, and I've got nowhere better to go, but, as things stand, my time there is over, and that's their loss as much as it is mine.

    Still waiting for that bottle of Cobra btw...

    Oh, Montana, I have problems with accessing Microsoft Live Mail. Can you send the message to me at bludgercat@hotmail.co.uk please?

  34. Btw, monkeyfish, you're absolutely right. I always say that you can't judge a man until you walk a mile in his moccassins. I suggested yesterday that Number Three might make the record for being the fastest ever poster into pre-mod, and it turns out I was right.

    Something rotten in the state of Graunland at the moment.

  35. Hank - sure thing. Kiz, (and others) it looks like you'll need to sign up for a gmail account to view the other place all the time - non-gmails only get to view as a guest for one month, apparently. Pseuds are perfectly acceptable for g-mail accts. Scherfig - I'm mystified as to why you couldn't get in. It's got you listed as a follower & it shows that Kiz & Monkeyfish have accepted the invites. The other me just invited the Montana me and this is what happened:
    -Montana got an e-mail saying she'd been invited to view the other blog. She clicked on the link in the e-mail, which took her to a page where her g-mail add was already in the username box & she entered her gmail password into the password box. She clicked on the "sign in" button and was taken to the blog. On the page where the "sign in" took place, on the right, was a box that said that non-gmail adds could only view the blog as a guest for one month.

  36. Sorry everybody else, reposting this from the last thread for Hank, just in case.

    ha ha, thanks, hank. I've seen the film, great stuff. I love Wilder - my fave is probably "The Apartment". Shirley MacClaine has never ever been better and Oscars all round! (whatever that's worth). The Lost Weekend and Sunset Boulevard were also top movies.

    If you like the "golden age" of Hollywood (which you apparently do), David Niven's two books "The Moon's a Balloon" and "Bring on the Empty Horses" are required reading. It's a fascinating insight into the Hollwood of the 30's, 40's, and 50's. Necessarily coy and sanitized for legal reasons (for example, Niven transporting Laurence Olivier's then wife, Vivien Leigh, "over state lines for immoral purposes" and escaping prosecution, and yet not actually naming her in the book, or somewhat vague casual references to marijuana and cocaine), but you can read between the lines and get the big picture - tremendous fun!

  37. Same problem here. I get the impression you've only invited us as 'readers'. Could that be it?

  38. hank-i tried to pass over the cobra but I think I conked out halfway through.. what with it being 4 am my neck of the woods at the time..
    scherfig- i read both Niven books when i was about 12, being fairly potty about hollywood, haven't read them since... last book of that ilk I read was Hollywood Babylon and that's a while back, as well..
    wildhack- I did eeverything you did and then tried to post a comment, whence I was told I wasn't a team member and couldn't post *sobs*

  39. SORRY! I had the comments restricted to 'members' which I thought meant people I'd invited to view it. 'Members' apparently means 'authors'. Anyway - it's changed now. So those of you who've been there should now be able to comment.

  40. {Dope slaps self} I suppose I should've just invited everyone as authors, anyway.

  41. Yippee! Now, where the hell do we spend most of our time?

  42. I think it should be a mix... be good to keep this going so other ciffers can find it... but it's nice to know there's somewhere for unsafe topics...

  43. scherfig and kizbot - Wilder was a genius, so many good films, Ace obviously, Sunset Boulevard, Some Like It Hot, Double Indemnity, Witness for the Prosecution, Lost Weekend and on it goes.

    Never read the Niven books, but have read Hollywood Babylon which I was a bit disappointed with tbh, didn't live up to the hype for me. Moving on to Hollywood's 2nd Golden Age, Julia Phillips' You'll Never Eat Lunch In This Town Again and Biskind's Easy Riders, Raging Bulls are cracking books.

    @Montana - where are you luring us to?

  44. Our time? - I'm with kizbot on this - we should run with this one and try to get a bigger/broader spectrum on here - we've haven't been posting the link much lately. We should encourage as many people (Cif'ers) as possible, and then we've also got the other place for other purposes.

  45. kiz, when I go into the phonebooth there are only three followers- me, martillo and montana. I've seen your comment, but you're not there as a follower?

  46. Yeah, that's how I feel about it, too. We probably ought to link to this place a bit more on Cif . I'll try to remember to do so.

    @Hank, it's just a discreet little, out-of-the way joint...

  47. Oh - and BTH is rather disappointed that the "usual misogynists" aren't on the Bennett thread about primogeniture & FGM.

  48. Yes, this one's good, and a secret place sounds fun. Can we have oaths and dire punishments for grasses?

  49. Anyway, I'm going back to cif under a new nom de plume. Going to go with it for a few weeks...first one to guess it's me and announce it in 'another place' wins a crate of cobra. It's like meeting all over again. Which reminds me...

    About a month back, I took the kids down my mothers for the weekend. Naturally, I took Mrs Fish out for a romantic few pints and a kebab. When we got home and were curled on the settee, she turned and said "do you think if we'd met today, we'd still get together?". Instantly racking my brain for the concealed pitfall, I replied "yeah, I'd fancy you even more than I did all those years ago". Good answer eh?....Apparently not.

    "God...you're so full of shit" she replied, gave me a dig in the ribs and stormed off to the kitchen.

  50. "God...you're so full of shit". She's not a bad judge, Mrs Fish. On the plus side, if she stormed off to the kitchen then at least she knows her place.

    Incidentally, we were talking the other day about our user names...What's the inspiration for "monkeyfish"?

    Good luck with the new look, mate. A word of advice, steer clear of Polly's threads and you should be ok.

  51. monkeyfish and kizbot, you've both posted comments in the phonebooth but are not followers?? Hank, you're not even there yet - get your shit together, mate.

  52. What's the inspiration for "monkeyfish"?

    It carries echoes of the evolutionary heritage of my species. Also:


  53. Please understand that I'm not meaning to criticise Mrs. Fish by what I'm about to say, but your story is an illustration of one of the things that makes me wonder if I'm actually a woman. I mean, I have the right genitals and I have the child to prove it, but it would never occur to me to ask such a question of my (hypothetical) husband and, if for some reason I did and he gave me the answer you gave Mrs. Fish, my (hypothetical) husband would've been on the express train to Shagville. How impossibly sweet!

  54. #if for some reason I did and he gave me the answer you gave Mrs. Fish, my (hypothetical) husband would've been on the express train to Shagville.#

    Tell me about it. Still can't work it out. Generally, she's a pushover for a bit of schmaltzy romance.

    Who knows? Didn't seem like asking was a good idea and it didn't last long.

  55. Lord - leave it up to the rednecks! Ever heard of noodling?

  56. montana, just checked out the Bennett thread. I enjoy taking the piss out of BTH every now and then, but just when I think he couldn't get any more fem-sycophantic, he does.

    "millytante, excellent posts and your taking Babelshark to task is fully deserved and appreciated, as is freewoman's post on the same subject.
    And where are all the usual anti-feminist posters today? No doubt all too ashamed, over 13 hours since the first post, to show their faces."

    The irony is that the fems seem to think that he's more of a joke than the "misogynists" do, and, very sensibly I feel, ignore him totally. The likes of ally, jay and I are sometimes suckered into responding to him - more fool us. The guy is a total dick.

  57. monkeyfish, I'm perplexed by the Mrs MF situation you describe. Could the romantic kebab have played a role, do you think?

  58. Christ Monkeyfish, you didn't fall into that one! The correct answer is a soulful look and a long deep kiss.

    More seriously, I suspect it may have been one of those 'where are we now?' questions, the answer to which should not include words like 'fancy'. Not that I don't fuck up in those situations too...

  59. Ah, this is where you have all disappeared to...

  60. But why ask the love of your life such a question if you're not prepared for whatever answer may come? And how on Earth do you get angry at such a romantic response? What else was he supposed to say? "Well, if we met today, we'd probably have been married to other people by now, so if we got together we'd be cheating on our spouses right now."

    And scherfig - I guess it's been established that I'm not a fem, but BTH certainly does make me chuckle.

  61. Welcome, olching, knew you'd miss us eventually!

    @scherfig and Montana - going away for a few days but if you want to post a link to point me in the right direction I'll see you next weekend...

    @martillo - good answer, you old romantic xx

  62. hank - sign up for the new thread montana has opened http://amexphonebooth.blogspot.com/

    And we'll see ya when we see ya. BTW, do you think that Kirk Douglas is the cruelly parodied "elder" actor in Martin Amis's "Money". I know you like Kirk, but I fear that it is him. And I laughed! Check it out.

  63. @martillo - nice one! Northern Soul fan? If so, how about this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=It8ORePNyt8&feature=related or...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AmwoK6uw5Q or...

    this one, my very fave dancefloor classic...


    @scherfig, I'll see you there next weekend. Haven't read "Money" tbh, always thought Amis suffered by comparison with his Dad, ie Martin was a cunt but not as much of a cunt!

    TTFN all, big kisses, play nice, and see you all soon (-:

  64. So this is where everyone is now!

    I've been missing some of you chaps and lasses from CiF, now I know where you are. (That's not a threat)

    And my good Eastern European buddy olching is here too!

    Smaller incidents against me (I don't have the pedigree of some here I know) so far. Made a comment regarding some snotty insurance salesman who is Chair of Vauxhall Labour party. Not offensive, rude or nasty, just pointing out that his article was obviously the start of his campaign to be given a safe (if they exist anymore) Labour seat. I think the words I used were:
    'Ladies and gents, may I present to you the next MP for Vauxhall Mr....'.

    And that was deleted!!!

    Only a minor gripe compared to some here (who're champion bloggers and commentators in my book) I know.

    Off to get a whiskey to celebrate finding the cool and interesting CiF awkward squad again

  65. Welcome, Pestinpest! I look forward to your intellectual input. And the odd joke.

  66. Forgot to say hi! to olching. I hope you're aware, olching, that everything can be bought and sold here - principles, women, small children. It's like Rick's bar in Casablanca, but in a bad way. Welcome aboard - I doubt that you will able to appeal to the better angels of our nature, but we can we can have a laugh, can't we?

  67. Just came across this quite by chance. Nice piano/acoustic guitar.


  68. Hank (if you're not gone already) - Reggi Lampert sent you an e-mail. Do what it says. (Why do I feel like I should add "and nobody gets hurt"?)

    Olching, Pest - welcome. Send me an e-mail via my profile.

  69. Oh, by the way,martillo - took one of those stupid Facebook quizzes last night at the request of a friend. When it was done, there was a list of more quizzes you could take - one of which was "What West Ham Player Are You?" Apparently I'm Luis Boa Morte. Given the tenor of the questions, I'm thinking that's not a compliment to either one of us.

  70. Hi there scherfig...I like the idea of this bribe-friendly.

    So, let me start by bribing Montana with a present:


    Hi Pestinpest...

    Hi to all the rest.

    Montana, I'll send you an email...hope I can make it now, but in a rush to work...if not, I'll email later...

  71. Drunkscorpio(!!!)

    It occurs to me that Cif hasn't been nearly so entertaining lately and some of the threads have been boring quite frankly. I couldn't be bothered to comment on some of them. There was no ENGAGEMENT if you know what I mean just 'youre wrong' and 'thats crap' but with no sensible discussion as to WHY.

    Cif ought to consider that this modding policy could well kill the site off leaving it to the sycophants.

    I agree with you about 1968 you can date all the identity politics bollox from then. We used to call them 'trendies'! By the end of the 70's they had rejected the working class as sexist and racist not recognising that those attitudes largely came out of the insecurities of working class life and that as Marx said 'If the working class does not have its own philosophy it has the philosophy of the ruling class'.

    That lot had some very peculiar attitudes as to what would interest 'working class kids' too. (I was in teaching!). I never know where to put myself in the British (as opposed to Marxist) class system I am middle class in that way I suppose but unlike many with my background I am actually proud of my working class roots.

    As I rely on a pension and have, apart from my house virtually no capital I consider myself working class in the Marxist sense anyway. What I can't understand isthat these people used to call themselves Marxists in those days - don't think they read much Marx though!

  72. Northern soul, Hank? No, just a soul fan. I love the Barbra Mcnair.

    How about this one? I've been looking for The 5 Stair Steps' version but can't find it.

    Boa Morte, Montana, is considered a big disappointment. You have nothing in common at all. Russell Brand offered to do 'a sex dance' for him once. You can find it here

  73. meanwhile, 19 hours and counting, underneath the latest article by one of the Observer's finest blue chip columnists:

    "I wish the Guardian would sack this vacuous idiot."

    Consistency. Dontchajust love it.

  74. I've been deleted heavily but I don't seem to have ever been put in pre mod. Obviously, this is not a bad thing, but a few weeks ago I entered into some lively debate about a piece by a lady who was troubled by fears of bad things happening to Obama and although JayReilly and Kizbot were premodded, I escaped the cut....anyways, I'd like to apologise to Jay and Kiz as I thought that was rather harsh. The mods did, however, completely remove some of my comments meaning that others made no sense, which was a more effective and rather cruel punishment I thought.

  75. No reason to delete this witty post, but I just have a feeling...

    "Mysoginy with irony IS NOT still mysoginy.
    I am a genuine mysoginist - I hate women. Sometimes other men will say mysoginistic things that I approve of, but later I realise they are simply being 'ironic' or perhaps 'post-modern' and it leaves me feeling disapointed and angry.
    I hate you Tanya, with your vagina."

    Yeah, how did you get away with that, Doohnibor? That was a truly great thread, by the way. sigh

  76. Yes, it will take some doing to relegate that from my favourite top five threads of all time, I keep meaning to look out for other articles by the writer, but I've forgotten who it was now.....As I say, I think that the heavy deleting of random comemnts was considered to be a sufficient penalty. Also, I'm shagging Mat Seaton....

  77. "Also, I'm shagging Mat Seaton...."

    Now that's what I call cruel and unusual.

  78. Fuck me, I'm out! Perhaps I've been shagging him too.

  79. Needs must and all that......

  80. OK, hands up everybody who is shagging Matt. One...two...three... hey! what are the Myersons doing here?

  81. Yep, they took out confuseddotcoms's post. Really, can any mod come here and defend that decision? Idiots!

  82. I'm willing to bet that it was the reference to her vagina.

    I'm going to have a go at using the word vagina (tragically underused in my opinion) on a thread and see if I am deleted. (Although of course, my own activities in that particular area have conferred special powers on me.....)

  83. Doohnibor, that Obama piece was "Fear and Loving" by Anna Shapiro - truly one of the most bonkers articles on Cif ever, and that's saying something. I had about six comments deleted. I reckon the deletion rate must have been nearly 50%.

    Strangely, Ms Shapiro has not written anything for the Guardian since.

  84. Hank, you've got a very good point about 1968. Can I recommend this book. It deals with it quite well. Basically, Siegfried sets 1968 apart by saying it's where life style revolutionaries and political revolutionaries met.

    Does anyone remember DriveByAbuserPierre? What happened to him? The last time I saw him in his third incarnation (first as DriveByAbuser, then DriveByAbuserPierre, then DABPierre) was on a Julie Burchill thread in late 2007. I never saw the comment that killed him. I arrived on the thread and already his comment had been metamorphisised into "This comment has been deleted". I did see the responses to it, which varied from "Bye Pierre", "Nice to have met you Pierre!". He was a classic.

  85. Re use of the word "vagina" on Tanya's thread, this one is still there:

    "I for one will admit to hating everybody who has a vagina almost as much as I hate Arsenal, but misogyny seems irrelevant here. The natural, thinking man's pyrmaid of hate objects goes: Women - Arsenal - Journalists."

  86. Yes, that was a moderation massacre! Whole comments and conversations just vanished. It was a pure joy that thread. I think back on it with great affection. One of the things which elevated it even further was the fact that she kept coming back with fabulously delusional retorts.

    For me, that thread was right up there with Bindel's Barry George.

    Thats why you can't help returning to CiF. OK, the quality has, to my mind, tapered off a bit of late, but you'd be cutting off your nose if you didn't keep an eye open for those little golden nuggets....

  87. "The irony is that the fems seem to think that he's more of a joke than the "misogynists" do, and, very sensibly I feel, ignore him totally."

    Made me laugh a lot. BTH really does amuse me.

    Welcome newcomers!

    Doohnibor -- you got off very light but thats the mods inconsistency, not your fault. It was a cracking thread too, by the end there was only about 5 of us, ripping the piss out of that god awful article and no mods in sight. I am annoyed they culled so many because basically Shapiro was annihilated, her only recourse was to random slurs on Britain and our shite weather.

  88. Well I'm still pre-modded. I'm not gonna shag Matt Seaton. Thought about it, but I just pissed in his fridge instead and let his tyres down. Obviously monkeyfish has past its sell by date. I need rebranding.

  89. Hi montana - send us another invite please. I deleted your last one in error. Can't think how that might have happened.

    @monkeyfish - what about "Number Four"?

    @olching - thanks for the reccomendation. Looks interesting. Just ordered a copy. Particularly looking forward to the chapter on Northern Soul and working class culture.

    @annetan - great Marx quote!

  90. News from Nowhere....I'm still banged up too, M Poisson. Not banned apparently, which is something (you know you're banned incidentally when you don't even get the "comment has been submitted for moderation" dialogue box appear when you submit a post).

    Could be worse. I could be Richard Timney.

  91. Hank

    My "NumberFour"'s off and running. He's putting in a few innocuous comments as groundwork; paying his dues so to speak before emerging fully formed in maybe a week or two as the most vicious, foul-mouthed, destructive 'gravedigger of the bourgeoisie' ever to stagger back from the pub on a Friday night with venom and devastation in every fingertip. Or...to be honest, he just hasn't seen a thread worth getting excited about yet which didn't have 200+ comments which had already said everything that needed saying. Also, busy time at work. We're all trying to appear essential. Fuckin about on cif all day is a bit of a give-away.

  92. And they're getting published are they? Thought I'd spotted you earlier as tomhagen (good name) but checked the profile and he's an established, if occasional, poster. Guess he's busy with FBI hearings and perfecting his pasta sauce much of the time.

    Tbh, there's not much worth looking at on here today. The Jacqui Smith stuff is fun, but couldn't quite work out why Tanya Gold excited so much vitriol. The old sexual politics stuff again. I can only assume there's a hell of a lot of posters who got fleeced in the divorce courts.

  93. Ooh, got a post published after just 15 minutes. Obviously got the coked-up mods on prefect duty tonight.

  94. Ohhh...I got one through as monkeyfish!!!

    On the open thread. I've got this thing about John Updike. Vastly overrated.

    Yeah, my other ones are getting published. Why wouldn't they? They don't check the IP address do they?

  95. Don't really need to when you're giving such clues do we monkeyfish?

  96. Never read Updike, mf, and never had the inclination to. Happy to accept your verdict. Don't mind a bit of Philip Roth though (in the style of "Oh I like a bit of Deeping, or Dell" in Gordon Comstock's bookshop/lending library).

    I've put a nomination in for Hollinghurst's Line of Beauty. A Xmas present a year or two back. I'd rather have had socks.

    Who's this "arnie" geezer then? Friend of yours?

  97. Oh yes...a bite!

    So how's thing's in the bunker arnie? Why not delete them then? Even better, why not come back and explain the rank hypocrisy and inconsistencies in the moderation policy?

    Don't suppose you'll bother but I do appreciate the fact that you're watching and getting riled; makes it all worthwhile.

    Btw, how did you get your job arnie? What are the qualities required as a censor at 'Freedom Central'? Sense of irony, I suppose. Strong convictions, especially about how other people ought to think and express themselves? Or was it just that Daddy knew someone?

    Please drop in again. Anytime.

  98. Hank

    dunno...was hoping it's a moderator. I hope he drops by again. Or as arnie would say 'Hasta la vista'.

  99. I'm thinking less "Hasta la vista" and more "Arnie, the fastest milk monitor in the West".

    If he is a mod, it's funny, sad and ego-boosting in more or less equal measures. No, scrub that, mostly sad.

  100. Couldn't be bothered posting on the various Smith threads, (one now shut down), but it struck me - how fucking thick can that Timney bloke be? Claiming 88p for a plug, and also providing evidence for his porn habit when he's already on 40K a year (ta for the job, wifey)? Hard to believe that this was a mistake - did he do it on purpose? And if so, why? All conspiracy theories welcome.

  101. Hello,

    I have been reading this blog since you started it and have been on cif for a while. I do comment there - sometimes - although I just don't know how you find the time... I can't keep up. One of the reasons I don't post often is due to either so many people posting so many comments, sheer silliness of some articles and well, slightly low self esteem. That said, what you have going here is really interesting, especially wrt the whole moderation issue on cif and friendly banter. Also the main posters on this sites are the ones whose comments I most enjoyed reading over on cif. Although I miss moook, anyone remember her? Welsh free lance graphic designer with a white van (or so she said).
    Anyway, I wish I had posted more and sooner. Hope to be back with something more meaningful later. But Hi for now.


  102. Hi original - I miss moook too. Maybe she's newly loved-up and too busy and happy to be wasting her time on CiF. Hope so.

    @mf - I've just nominated The Lost Child on the open thread...

    "I bought it on the strength of the reviews

    Matt Seaton - 'I cried...'

    Mark Lawson - 'A brave, nay courageous, account of bourgeois self-sacrifice.'

    Jonathan Myerson - 'Wonderful, darling.'

    Very disappointed. The book's now in the toilet. Well, some of it."

    Think that'll get past the mods? Are my bridges all burnt?

  103. Hi original, I remember moook. She was very funny, bit of a maverick, short pithy posts. We could use more like her right now.

  104. monkeyfish.myopenid.com30 March, 2009 22:13


    I believe Matt Seaton wrote a book on cycling...

    'Two wheels, two faced, life's too short...'

  105. Hank & Olching - you've both made me cry in the past 24 hours! Hank - I'd never known the title of the FB3 song that TH wrote about what had happened to him - budget hasn't allowed me to get that far into the collection and the song wasn't specified in the article that I'd read that referred to it. Last night I found this on YouTube. My mind is still trying to get around it. I know everyone reacts to things in a different way, but it seems to me that there must have been no small amount of disassociation going on to be able to stand there in front of a bunch of kids who just wanna hear some pop tunes, sing that so nonchalantly, and immediately launch into something as frothy as "Our Lips are Sealed". Thing is, it occurred to me to look for it as I was getting ready to go to bed. He may well have worked everything out a long time ago, but I ended up in bed crying for him and crying for the four year old girl that I was and wanting to castrate a couple of people.

    Then today, I come home from work early with a wonky tummy. Check into the Tanya Gold thread before I do anything else and end up sending off a post there that stirred up a bunch of residual adolescent shit for me. Come over here and what does Olching do? He sends me off to a Queen song that I haven't heard in years. Queen is the only thing that got me through adolescence without a suicide attempt. So I'm listening to Brian May and bawling at home alone at about 1 pm on a Monday. Either I owe each of you about $70 for the therapy or somebody owes me a good laugh soon.

  106. Hank

    I believe Matt Seaton wrote a book on cycling...

    'Two wheels, two faced, life's too short...'

  107. Hank - could be, hope so :-)

    Wow - I just went on the Tanya Gold thread - carnage with the comments, though I haven't had time to read all of what's left. I do think maybe she was aiming for a charlie brooker type tone but it really went wide of the mark. And I personally didn't find it that funny. Hoping what is left of the comments are tho.

  108. Nice one Hank. But you'll be laughing on the other side of your face when those "reviews" actually appear on the back cover of the paperback version. And who's to say that they won't? It is, after all, a parallel reality that these wankers inhabit.


  109. scherfig

    Nice link...but I think you underestimate the traumatic effects of such an experience. I was in therapy for months when an unruly gust of wind toppled the centuries old poplar in my Tuscan getaway. Maria cut her foot on the cracked terracotta patio tiles and so, despite the devastation, I had to run over and pick up Luigi myself. I was starving when I got back. Told him to forget about the fresh ciabatta; we made do with scrambled eggs and shaved truffle on toasted sliced bread (from a packet!). Made me appreciate the sacrifices those Eastenders made...'spirit of the Blitz'- real British pluck! Not that I go in for flag waving you understand.

  110. Arnie, eh? I'm thinking a prankster rather than a mod. Did you get it through premoderated or directly, monkefish? I was let out this morning - pity as I've been working all day. And what a day to miss - Tanya and Timney.

    Good call on 'Line of Beauty' hank. Shame after the Swimming Pool Library.

  111. Christ, montana, that's horrible. I'm lost for words. Except to say that living a happy life is the best revenge. That's what I'm told anyway. I think a happy life with a fair measure of physically damaging and humiliating vengeance is probably the best revenge.

    Good luck, you're due some. And I fucking hope that those bastards get what they deserve too.

  112. Montana, therapy is free, Queen is sacred. Thought you'd appreciate it, but didn't mean to make you cry...

  113. I think I've understood your post now, montana. I'm so sorry. I'll try to find something to make you laugh...

    how about this? You have to watch it all before it's funny though.

  114. Montana, same here as Martillo, only just understood it. I'm really really sorry.

  115. My review of Myerson's little book has been published on the open thread, monkeyfish. Two hours after the event. Obviously we have an ally (an AllyF?) working on the inside. Posted at 9.47pm, catch it before they catch on....

  116. I'm sorry, guys. I didn't mean to elicit so much sympathy. Looking back, it doesn't really read like it, but it was meant to be mock scolding. Of course I know that neither of you meant to hurt me in any way, and Olching, the Queen cry was actually kind of bittersweet - remembering just how much they meant to me and hearing Brian May's voice again. Never to take anything away from Freddie, but somehow the songs that Brian sang always seemed special. I have checked out of the Self Pity Motel and regular Montana bitchiness is set to resume. Thanks guys - consider yourselves all hugged!

    And martillo - that had me in stitches throughout! I wish I could see the whole movie! (And I never knew that Peter Cook had been such a beautiful young man - he was grey by the time I ever became aware of him.)

  117. Oh my heavens above. BTH just got the mother of all femi-slappings over at Tanya's.

    You know what? I actually feel sorry for him.

    That's really gotta hurt.

  118. Oh, and me 'on the inside'?

    That'll be the day.

  119. What's the deal with BTH? Why does he rile so many people? I've already said that I don't visit the gender war blogs much so I'm not acquainted with his approach or why it's so divisive. And of course I'm a lover not a fighter so I just don't get the point of posting just to argue with people...

    "On the inside" - too right. I've seen you without the beard, AllyF. You're a dead ringer for Peter Barkworth.

    Promised yesterday that I'd be off for a few days. Bureaucratic fuck up intervened, but I'm deffo off now. Send me the email again please, Montana, for the other place...

  120. Hank, I did. bludgercat@hotmail.co.uk - is that not right?

  121. And Hank - I think BTH riles people because he is so sycophantic. Gushes praise for all the radfems to the point that it's just nauseating. He makes me look like I'm just this side of LenFirewood & Brusselslout on women's issues.

  122. Ally - I saw that. Recommended it. Whoever she is - she's good.

  123. Yep, montana, but as I mentioned above I deleted your email in a moment of confusion. Have to say I'm disappointed that you've not been hanging on my every word...

    Btw, monkeyfish, I'm still in pre-mod but have got a post through on Poll's blog. Have tried posting another but have worriedblueeyes stalking me...Can we do a thread on the posters we really really dislike, montana?

    I know I had a bit of a rant about pikey the other day but this bitter old harridan has been pissing me off ever since we crossed swords months ago on a thread about THE WAR ON TERROR and how proud she was of her sons who do their bit for God and Queen by bombing the shit out of anyone less pale than her.

    She compounded it when, responding to my charge that she would be more at home on the Mail forums, she dismissed Mail readers as "chavscum". How fucking right-wing and middle-class do you have to be to use that phrase in the first place, and use it of archetypal middle-class right-wingers in the second?

    I know we've done the modding thing to death for at least a day or two, but it beats the hell out of me that CiF would alienate fine upstanding intelligent lefties like monkeyfish whilst giving houseroom to right-wing trolls like her, and dozens of others as bad as her.

    Anyway, that's my daily rant quota met. My psychotherapist will be satisfied. Definitely off now for a couple of days (-;

  124. Hank - I've now invited you three times. from Reggi Lampert. Don't delete, okay? Respond. And we can do a thread about whatever the hell you want, but we may want to move over to the phone booth if we're going to be really specific about particular people? Which means you're going to have to respond.

    You know I hang on your every word, Hank. I wait for them to drop like refreshing little raindroplets of wisdom from on high.

  125. Montana, I have similar issues as Hank. Haven't received an email from Reggi Lampert; just your email yesterday.

    CiF commenters we really hate? Mr No Shags EarlofSuave...

    By the way, have you noticed that weirdo SilentHunter has had his profile disappeared. I looked for him the other day, because I haven't had him pestering me with 'Olkerching' or 'Olchung' or 'Itching', but his profile wasn't there. So I looked to see if there was some mistake on the guardian website and - wait for it - could only find a SilentHunter profile in the lonely hearts section. Now I suddenly feel bad for all the times I told him to eff off.

  126. Ally said "That's really gotta hurt."

    Well, BTH didn't respond until the next day, so I have a picture of him crying all night, until dawn drove him back to his keyboard to continue the good fight. A flurry of posts within an hour leads me to believe that he's right back on track, self-loathing still intact and not the least bit chastened by the experience. Men! Eh?

  127. LordSummerisle31 March, 2009 11:20

    In pre-mod for the sixth or seventh time? I've only managed it twice. I must be doing something wrong ;-(

  128. Even you, LordS? I'd had none in my several years posting, then 2 within a couple of weeks. Something is definitely changing.

    Glad you enjoyed it, Montana. I'd more or less forgotten about it until I noticed there was a crap Hollywood remake (I haven't seen it, I'm only very slightly ashamed to say, but really, what are the chances it's any good?), so I got hold of it again. While linking it for you, I found some links to whole sections (the complete thing?) of the film. I know it's not the best way, but I found myself chortling away, even though I've already got it.

  129. Ally - i loved the fem slap down of BTH, highlight of the morning.

    To whoever asked what is irritating about BTH, imagine the worst sycophant you've ever met, times 50, complete with the sort of snidey little snipes and vendettas you would expect of an adolescent beauty pageant contestant. If it was just his slimy fawning over every feminist poster i would just feel a tad sorry for him, but he he combined it with numerous little snipes, slurs and misquotes against myself and others, so all considered i just find him a massive pain in the arse.

  130. Dear monkeyfish,

    Agree with most of what you say, except for "this is unlikely be the definitive narrative on this subject".

    That said, shouldn't you have been more open about your uncle's position as invisible commissioning editor at cifthreadrefugee.blogspot.com?

  131. ChooChoo

    Hank's not a real uncle, more a family friend. He just sorta helps out my mum sometimes; helps her finish off the vodka and gets her up to bed when she gets one of her 'bad-backs'. Often, when I get back from the pictures, he's still up there; keeping her company. Then he'll nip down and give me some money to nip out for a burger so as I don't disturb her. He's a really nice man.


    Silent Hunter's on a lifetime ban. Strangely enough, it was for arguing the toss over moderation. Who'd a thought it?

    You can find him and plenty of other 'disappeared' over at:


  132. Monkeyfish, how do you know these things?

    Do you know what happened to DriveByAbuser?

  133. Oh FFS

    I wish had had first pop on that Toynbee thread...she actually says:

    #Historians will see why: people feel a grand conspiracy by a well-paid elite has failed them.#


    So all the posters who've been saying for years what a useless, over rewarded, waste of space she and her chosen political allies are are actually from the future? Are the deleted posts the work of historians?

    The woman is fuckin priceless

  134. olching

    He told me the story on that blog. Strangely enough, he's quite reasonable and principled. It's Atomboy's blog. There's loads of cif regulars/ ex cif on it. The dark empire is developing cracks. Nationalist movements are springing up all over. To quote the Mahatma..

    "The sun will soon be setting on the cif raj unless Seaton gets his shit together"

    No idea about DAB.

  135. Or DBA even...Do you want me to invite silenthunter over for a chat? ;)

  136. Thanks, I'm alright for the moment.

    I could imitate him though:
    I want my country back, YOU BASTARDS >:0(

    Haha, monkeyFRESH :0)

    Oh and I see WankScorpio is pat of your crew ;0)

    Does that sound about right?

  137. I'm ill. Can't be arsed with cif or anything else this week. The world will have to wait for me to get better. In the meantime I am sitting on the sofa watching tv. Saw episode 1 of The Wire on bbc2, it was OK.

  138. Hi scientology! i miss moook to.. Does anybody besides me miss Donge?
    I don't really want to start going down the road of getting into bitchfests about other posters... But BTH is driving me up the fucking wall... Pikey doesn't even touch the sides in comparison... The bit that got me is he's always telling the other blokes about how they have to just listen to what the other fems say... not that he's shy with his opinions or owt... is a rapid response force when some bloke uses a sexist term (nothing wrong with that of course) but that it was ok to laugh at 'slagfest' and even had the temerity to say that such women deserved it! And the irony totally fuckin eluded him!Apoplexy's not good for my blood pressure... it really isn't

  139. What's up biskie..? try a hot toddy if it's a cold... nicely blurs the edges...

  140. olching

    yep...to a tee


    I miss donge...was sorry to hear he'd passed away.
    My neck's been filthy ever since. He was mad but a really good mad and his heart was in the right place.

  141. Oh no MF! Has he really gone... and taken his frosty mop with him? How did you find out? My favourite grumpy scottish pensioner ever... Oh.. I'm a bit sad :-(

  142. "I miss donge...was sorry to hear he'd passed away."

    Awww shit. I missed him, even before I knew why he wasn't around. When did that happen?

  143. http://www.northantset.co.uk/obituaries/Tributes-paid-to-Corby39s-John.4703219.jp

    Someone posted this link around Christmas. Seems he got around around a bit, old donge.

  144. he disappeared when the new style cif came to be.. I thought that's why he'd tittled off... in disgust...

  145. Lovely obituary. Felt like it was describing someone I really knew.

    Great to see that his Cif persona was apparently 100% the man himself.

    RIP doow / donge.

  146. Back on topic (if there is one)...

    moderation, feminism & BTH.

    I thought it was really bizarre that his (utterly astonishing) post that sparked the slapping from MsCapawotsit, was presumably removed because one of his friends said she reported it 'for his own good' (or words to that effect)

    It wasn't in itself offensive, abusive, off-topic or in any way in breach of any policy.

    Unless there's a line in the Community Guidelines I've missed that says:

    "A post will be removed if it is so jawdroppingly, cringingly stupid that it is likely to cause the author endless embarrassment for years to come."

    If that was the rule, there would be damned little left on Cif, come to think of it.

  147. I could do with a rule like that for real life sometimes.

  148. I am curious - what did he say?

    I have just started a new job, plus the comments just wont load at work, just get the blue stripped bar... so I am unable to keep up. It's so frustrating, I don't want to post unless I have read the whole thread properly (for fear of saying something stupid, irrelevant or just repeating something for the nth time) but If there's already 500 comments and it's on a thread that is anything to do with feminism, god, evolution, MRR etc I just can't face reading all the really silly things people say all in one go - hope that makes sense.

    I used to really enjoy cif but... well there seems to be less thought provoking articles or comment these days... or maybe it's me and I have become too closed minded. Or I have matured a bit.... ;-)

  149. Olching - oops! Had your just a bit wrong. Will send again. Back here in a mo.

  150. Didn't they do a piece on cif for donge? I remember reading one tribute to a poster on there and very nice it was too...

  151. address had your address just a bit wrong. Brian* dead bint.

    *see Tanya Gold thread

  152. Oh and Kizbot - there was a short time I thought maybe you were moook by another name (you seemed to appear more often, whilst she disappeared and you are both funny) but then you dropped the Greek and later Blackpool connection in and I had to conclude I was wrong.

  153. Just been catching up on the rap music/misogyny thread. Which I wont comment on directly but how did it turn from (as I recall) everyone calling for more writers to join the comments to telling some writers they are commenting too much. I mean I know that Jessica Reed didn't write that piece but she has just as much right to comment as anyone and as far as I know she isn't a moderator. It's a bit rude, disagree with her all you like and argue your point but it just seems that the big G by her name has upset a lot of people. And how is the graun going to encourage more writer interaction when some people respond like that. Or maybe that's the grauns fault for it's terrible moderation policy and slightly one sided coverage wrt women.

  154. I quite agree with you original. Regardless of what Jessica Reed writes, I think she deserves some kudos for always getting stuck in.

  155. It's true that Jessica Reed involves herself but who is she? What does she do there? Those G and C symbols really get up my nose (and not all contributors use them, I think as they never seem to challenge the Guardian 'line'.

  156. She's the CiF social worker.

  157. Well somebody ought to be.

  158. This is what Jessica says in her profile:

    I am the editorial assistant on Comment is free. Before joining the Cif team I worked at the global affairs magazine opendemocracy.net as participation editor, where I took care of the blogs and community aspects of the site. I also blog here: http://www.sijeka.com/blog.

    I don't often agree with her, but somehow I find her funny & think I'd actually like her if I met her.

  159. Says our mate Ca1eb over on the Misogyny/Rap thread (which I'm just now reading):

    Now when you compare that to Aled Jones staggering around on a barren hillside, extolling the virtues of 'walking in the air' then It's no wonder that in comparison that most boys would rather call themselves things like 'Ree Zist', 'Karn Age' or 'Dire Reah'.

    Dammit, Ca1eb! I've gone 24 years without thinking about that song and now I'm gonna be hearing it all night. I just might get Kiz to fling a teapot Ca1ebwards.

  160. hi olching - I think DBA (after numerous bans) is now the still sharp wit Bitterweed.

  161. No way! I can see the similarities! Are you sure? That would make sense, because I had a real soft spot for DBA and for our old friend Bitterweed. That would make my day, by the way.

    Why do you guys know all this stuff?

    Bitters, are you out there? Are you 'Pierre'?

  162. Oh yes, and parallax, really good to 'see' you again. You still on the books blog?

  163. About Donge -I knew he'd died but not read the obit before.

    A real old style working class hero, we need people like him now.

    May he rest in peace.

  164. 'Why do you guys know all this stuff?' I dunno - I think, for me, it's because cif 'debate' has become so circular and deja vu on recycled topics that the only memorable things are personal anecdotes.

    Bitterweed intimated that he was DBA when he first appeared as Bitterweed - also his previous incarnation as DB - sharp,irreverent,funny - was a manifestation of alcohol repressed grief. I think it's the humanity behind the posters that's worthwhile now, rather than any *meaningful* debate; debate which struggles to survive.

    Good to 'see' you too olching. I'm not on the books blog so much now, especially as the poster poems thread has run its course - the other poetry thread is over-run by heavy-footed, tortuous, turgid posts tapped out by hyperventilating disseminators :)

    I hang out on threads run by ex-GU books/poetry posters. Remember misharialadwani?


  165. I've gone 24 years without thinking about that song and now I'm gonna be hearing it all night.

    People should always be thinking about 'Walking in the Air'. It's the perfect song. I think you should thank me.

    *teapot impact sends Ca1eb slumping to the floor*

  166. I feel your pain Kiz, i think he may actually grate me more than Ultima. He seems to like talking about himself in the third person too. I know we really shouldnt use this site to bitch but with those two i just cant help it.

  167. "Remember misharialadwani?"

    Yes, I certainly do...I'll check out the blog now...

  168. Just remember folks - there's always the phonebooth if you want to vent & aren't comfortable with it here...