24 April 2009

The Untrusted

It's been an interesting couple of days since I got back from the wilds of Corfu... Woolly has been added to the list of the inexplicably untrusted while others continue to exploit the entrenched inconsistencies of cif moderation. Cif often reminds me of a Hong kong martial arts film, utter mayhem from every corner, flying kicks from bloggers, posters and mods all over the shop and no real plot to speak of! I love it that this space has started to grow into a refuge to vent uncensored and that it's changing all the time, with more and more people joining in. And apart from things like name changes, I'd love to see more opinion pieces posted up here, too, and not necessarily CiF related. Plenty of room round here, I reckon, for the untrusted and the precariously trusted to say just what they want...

364 comments:

  1. Well that was easy enuf.. Thanks for the tips olching and wildhack... So... now we've got 3 new posts on the board.. One of them, at least, half inebriated... ;-)

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  2. Well, done, Kiz! Read the exchange that took place on the "What do you want to talk about" thread that you & Jay had with BTH. Lord, that boy is something. There's something of the pitbull in him, isn't there? Albeit, a very supportive pitbull.

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  3. Christ, i didnt know so much slandering had gone on, who is this ellymiranda? Some random fem i have sleighted in a former life? Tiresome... Anyway Kizzy my dear, thank you for defending my honour, you are a scholar and an officer.

    Liked the article though Kiz, you missed quite a bit in your absence. More articles here would be good, perhaps we could continue having a general debate thread, like we have been having, where we make a new thread every time one gets full but we generally all talk on one thread, and then maybe a separate list/area/whatever for any actual opinion pieces. I think its good here that there is one sort of ongoing thread for general banter.

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  4. (just picking up and carrying on from a previous thread and trailing it here): Bitterweed, the NZ doctor poster you were thinking of was RameshN - yeah he's excellent value - he's still posting, he was on the Somalian Pirates thread that you were on the other week.

    This old Cif Awards Thread is handy for old posters names.

    On the rude one-liners front: personal favourite was when I was deleted for saying something like: 'Is that Waltz I can hear dripping?' (Waltz was showing, ummm, appreciative interest in Ruth Fowler, if I recall. But then again, the Fowler twins got old monkeyfish throbbing as well;) )

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  5. I agree Jay... it would be good to have an open thread kept going for general banter and other threads where contributors can put up articles... Plenty of people about who never get the chance to do ATL and that I'd love to read... Monkeyfish's article was very funny.. loved it... and you Jay... Perhaps we can finally get that long awaited 'wots wrong with feminism' article?

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  6. Kizbot, nice imagery - the pointless anarchy and comic book violence, very appropos.

    parallax
    Thanks, that's the very chap - RameshN - misssed him completely on that thread, mind you I did bail quite early on that one... glad he's still around though.

    And Love the Waltz jibe. She's a proper headbanger that one. Oh, yes - monkeyfish & the Fowler girls - CiF's very own dirty melange a trois... monkeyfish, what have you done with them ?! I bet you're not really banned from CiF, you've just taken up a seedy bohemian garret in Berlin, full of silk cushions and joss sticks and don't get up til tea time. Well ?

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  7. Another Porn article has popped up..honestly they're obessed over there.
    It's hardly worth even bothering to debate because it's been done so many times before...usualy by the same person.



    Mendoza.

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  8. "'wots wrong with feminism'"

    I dont know how i could tackle such a subject in anything less than about 10,000 words, people would be crying of boredom by the end of the first paragraph. But as a general rule, i think all good feminism can be clearly traced to a pursuit of equal rights, equal responsibilities and equal opportunities. Then there's the rest of it...

    This porn article, for example, i dont think has malign intent, but is just all such weak stuff, so much speculation, so much "theory", so little fact...

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  9. Jay, write it !

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  10. How would i find time to write an article - I spend about 9 hours a day as it is chatting breeze on here with you reprobates and another 8 on CIF... ;)

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  11. Good one, Kizbot, hope you had a good break.

    Jay, it doesn't have to be definitive. Anything written about sex and sexuality from a different perspective would be welcome. Just get it started for everyone...

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  12. What did you say to get deleted there, Jay?

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  13. Knowing Jay, he didn't copy it even though he guessed it would be deleted. I, on the other hand, did.
    If Jay ever wants to see his rant again, then he will leave $5,000 in a Werlein's shopping bag in the waste-bin under the D.H. Holmes clock at 6 o'clock.

    BTW - I'll post a tip on deleted comments retrieval in the phonebooth.

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  14. Grr... i wrote a lengthy bit of satire about the wonders of untestable social "theory" as a basis for banning popular things, i was calling for football to be banned because it encourages Waggism, promotoes unattainable images of hairless, superfit men and satisfies womens hidden lust for infanticide by allowing them to exploit men who look like little boys and have the intellect of little boys.

    Then i asked how Ms Leveques article was any more credible or based on more solid proof.

    The little shits deleted it. I was making a valid point.

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  15. lol, good man scherfig - i do occasionally save ones i think might get deleted, but somehow in my little brain as i type them i usually convince myself that the mods wouldnt be so crass as to delete such light posts, i tell myself the post isnt actually offensive at all. And self censoring really is the pits, the little Himmlers need to grow up a bit.

    You have a tip on deleted comments? This sounds interesting!

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  16. Jay's comment in full:

    I am also staging a protest tonight, outside Stamford Bridge stadium, i hope some of you will join me. Me and 5 other men are protesting against Premiership football. Its increasing prominence over the last 10 years is dehumanising men, it is turning them into performing monkeys who only exist to finance the
    lavish lifestyle of WAGs. Young girls are reading magazines like Heat and many want to grow up to be WAGs - that is, to grow up and abuse men, to strip them of their humanity and turn them into nothing but cash machines, that is - to objectify them and reduce them to nothing more than a bank balance. One survey found more girls wanted to be WAGs than lawyers or accountants - the government must act, we are bringing up a whole generation of young women who see men as animals good for one thing only. These abusers, WAGSs, are also all over the press, some even described as new "feminist icons", apparently in seriousness. They are fawned over rather than scolded for their appalling sexism and misandry. The message is clear - society encourages misandry. Whats more, a number of Chelsea players have started waxing their body hair - this is pushing unrealistic body images onto young men - not only are these footballers extremely athletic, they also have no chest or armpit hair - robbing man of his masculinity once more for the purpose of dehumanising him ready for the financial assault of waiting WAGs. Research has also shown WAGS like the shaved look because it reinforces their biological inclination to infanticide - instead of killing children, this allows an outlet in the form of freeloading off a hairless man-boy of childlike intellect.

    Enough is enough.

    "Speak out!"

    Now, in all seriousness, could someone explain how Ms Leveque's rant is any more credible than mine? To my knowledge, my above rant has just as much scientific foundation as hers.

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  17. Now come on, how was it offensive? I really didnt expect it to be deleted, the mods are just picking on me as usual.

    Where's Ally been lately?

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  18. @Jay:

    Mate, you know what it's like - if you don't take the bubbleheaded 6th form Gender Studies chattering seriously enough, or if you point out that it might be just the teensiest bit wrong-headed, you get deleted.

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  19. Hi guys,

    (I like new threads as when it gets over 200 I get a teensy weency box to write in).

    Did someone say '(un)testable social theory'? Depends whether science requires repitition (CiF does).

    Years ago, when I was a student, I gave a seminar on feminist psychology. My dad dealt 2nd hand books and had come across one called (something like) Catholic psychology blah blah blah in line with revelations.

    My title was 'Feminist psychology, catholic psychology; Is there any difference?

    If you are bound to a preformed ideology all the lateter 'analysis' is likely to be skewed and flawed.

    Pen

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  20. "if you don't take the bubbleheaded 6th form Gender Studies chattering seriously enough, or if you point out that it might be just the teensiest bit wrong-headed, you get deleted."

    I know, i really should have learnt by now but the sociobabble always just makes me wretch and i need to vent my rage... then get deleted... then moan about getting deleted...

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  21. Jay
    Beats the shit out of me. You weren't rude or off-topic.

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  22. Jay - I thought that was a very clever pastiche- made me giggle! It was also very fair comment!

    Now you know who the humourless feminists are!

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  23. Hi pen. If you have a catholic feminist, which aspect of his/her psychology is (a) more important or (b) redundant?

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  24. @Jay:

    Stick to the uncontrovertible truths, old man. "Sandrine, most of what you say, while no doubt very significant to the bien pensants living out their gilded lives in the chattering enclave you inhabit, means nothing to 99% of the population."

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  25. "Stick to the uncontrovertible truths, old man. "Sandrine, most of what you say, while no doubt very significant to the bien pensants living out their gilded lives in the chattering enclave you inhabit, means nothing to 99% of the population.""

    You should post this on the thread Swifty, it has a nice dismissive quality about it which rather tickled me...

    "Now you know who the humourless feminists are!"

    Thats the problem though Annetan, we dont, we just know either a little jobsworth mod hacked it away off their own back, or an anonymous person, probably fem but not definitely, asked for it to be removed, and then a jobsworth mod git agreed. It does my head in...

    I've reposted it - will have to see what the mods do.

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  26. scherf - i thought you were going to put this advice in the phone box, i cant see it, though i dont always know which bit of the phonebox people are currently chatting in, its big in there, like a tardis...

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  27. Bitterweed

    Who told ya? Yeah, me Ruthie and Claire are generally 'busy' til late afternoon. We did consider moving back to the UK but you know how it is. Nobody takes us seriously. Despite the girls' time at Cambridge and my sterling work as a heavyweight opinion former, the stigma of those northern comprehensives follows us everywhere; forever shunned by polite society, excluded from media elite, we get by as best we can.

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  28. Regarding put downs of waltz, I recall a thread about showing dis/respect to people in the armed forces, where waltz had posted some kind of little englandism, which received the response: "waltz seems to be in 4/4 time today", which I quite enjoyed

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  29. Hi Scherfig, it's original sin, sex is the informational sequestration of identity space.

    Pen

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  30. Oh this is gonna be huge. Seaton's got a new thread about CiF and he's already waded in below the line to give Heresiarch and Metatarsal some intemperate abuse.

    Off to buy some popcorn.

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  31. Hank, lol, im loving it -

    "Oh get a life, Metatarsal."

    From the editor no less....

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  32. Get stuck in, Jay. Oh and do send Matt my love.

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  33. I have popped in with some mildly irritating remarks, i felt a duty to all those cifrefugees who have already left for the weekend...

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  34. Haha, that thread is gold.

    Matt Seaton scares me a little bit. "It's generally a cool place to be." How old is he? Is he not yet twenty?

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  35. Where is it? I can't find it - being dense today.

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  36. Here you go, annetan...

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/24/orwellprize-budget

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  37. Its on the main page, editors blog.

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  38. Matt's comment at 5.29pm has been "removed by a moderator". I laughed but jeez, all he said was "get a life". How fucking anodyne will debate be under the new modding guidelines?

    Meanwhile, over at waltzwatch, our favourite untouchable quasi-fascist lesbian has post of the day. And her posts dismissing other posters as having learning difficulties are still extant.

    Honestly, I will post something soon which doesn't touch on the modding policy, or indeed CiF at all, but the hypocrisy goes on and on...

    @monkeyfish - sorry I didn't have those spark plugs in stock btw mate (-;

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  39. I've just proposed a new feature on the Boris Johnson thread: The Idiot of the Thread award (IotT).

    I might just go round dishing them out in a bit. I think RogerHicks wins on Sarfraz's thread. But then RogerHicks always wins.

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  40. "I've just proposed a new feature on the Boris Johnson thread: The Idiot of the Thread award (IotT)."

    Superb, superb suggestion.

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  41. That deletion may be a depressing glimpse of the new guidelines, Hank. "Look, we'll even delete one of our own for saying something that might be seen as offensive by someone with the sensitivity of a haemorrhoid". I wouldn't be surprised if the simpering twat reported or deleted himself.

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  42. martillo, thinking alike I see :0 - I have already posted (and await deletion) something similar on the thread

    btw, the thread's 'disappeared' from the front page

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  43. So you have, parallax, and so it has.

    "It's very high on our priorities."
    "I need to get up to speed with that; but I will get back to you "

    That all sounds depressingly like my Internet Provider's call centre. The horrible businessspeak, the casual lies. Still, at least I'm not paying them.

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  44. Hey monkeyfish... Do you remember when you where hot on the fowlers and others were extolling their virtues too and I got peeved and suggested that me and other fems go in for a spot of ATL chap bothering? When I asked for assistance on John Harris's Jeremy Clarkson thread not one fem came to my aid... you were the only one to help me out with my chat up lines... I also got some of the funniest replies I've ever had to posts on that thread.. The best being one from englandism.com (remember him?) asking if I was a member of The Loretta Bobbit cock choppers sisterhood... very funny...

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  45. @olching or martillo - either one of you prepared to go over the top on the Seaton thread and name names? Jay's good in an agent provocateur way but I'm not sure he would lay down his posting rights ust yet. Edging that way though...

    Seaton is an arse and his modding policy has been a shambles, not just for the likes of Woolly, monkey and me, but for all the posters who like to have a bit of banter, a bit of offtopic youtube duelling and a bit of good old fashioned political "debate".

    Seaton's problem, and Georgina's before him, is that they think that political debates have no relevance beyond Islington.

    Some day soon they might realise that politics involves tough decisions, and harsh outcomes for those less insulated and complacent than them.

    And then they might realise that there are actually worse things than uncouth types, those who actually care about society, calling nasty people who don't care about any other people than themselves nasty names.

    Sorry if this post comes across as a bit juvenile, but I really don't know how to deal with Matt and the Guardianistas anymore.

    It fucking amazes me to be honest that, as the world comes crashing down on the heads of the poor, and the rich get the contracts for rebuilding the world, the twats at the Guardian get a little peeved by injustice but righteously angry about those who swear at the rich and their apologists.

    Bad people do bad things. Some of those bad people are welcome on CiF, above and below the line. We are after all a liberal paper, and we wring our hands about all the bad things that happen and the bad people that cause them. And we can only learn why those bad things happen by asking those bad people to explain, excuse and get paid.

    What we don't want, and won't tolerate, are those people who haven't had the liberal educations we had, who don't understand how bourgeois society operates, and who frighten the horses by getting angry and abusive. These are not the sort of people we would invite to our dinner parties. Why can't these people get angry without getting, well, angry?

    Liberal wankers.

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  46. Evenin' all!

    Hmm... why has Matt's blog disappeared from the front page? My guess is that it is because the mods are off duty during the weekend (which is why controversial threads tend to be closed for comments on a Friday evening). But to "disappear" it is a bit bizarre.

    BB

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  47. Quality rant, btw, Hank :o)

    BB

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  48. Btw, Seaton's blog is still on the front page, but it's a linked thread beneath the open thread about asparagus. Kinda sums it up for me.

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  49. "either one of you prepared to go over the top on the Seaton thread and name names?"

    I'm just about to have dinner, Hank, but I'm so bored with it that if you tell me what to say (in the phonebox) I'll copy and paste it later...

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  50. "Quality rank, btw, Hank :0)"

    Thanks, BB. Don't really care about that stuff tbh but I've been pissed off today after popping into Waitrose only to find that they'd run out of asparagus.

    On the plus side, it will make for an "oh, you too" anecdotal icebreaker round at Matt and Georgina's tomorrow night. Nothing like "luxury's disappointments" (Billy Bragg) to get the social justice semen dribbling from the Guardianista wankers.

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  51. @martillo - cut and paste my post from 21.08 above if you're of a mind to. Edit and add other lines from here according to taste. Not taking the piss, btw, martillo, I'm bored with it too if one can be both bored and angry.

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  52. LOL!

    A thread on asparagus! How did I manage to miss that gem? Geez.

    BB

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  53. asparagus is lovely bb but unsurprisingly enuf matt thinks tinned is better than fresh...

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  54. Fook me, just read Seaton's latest contribution to the non-asparagus thread. He's not gonna be challenging Cheryl Cole's route to the Gold Run on Blockbusters anytime soon is he?

    Open necked shirts, an inability to digest Orwell's 'Politics and the English Language', and an infatuation with marketing bullshit does not an editor of an intelligent and progressive website make.

    "Is that brand-damaging for the Guardian?"

    Matt, that would be funny if it wasn't so sad. Thatcher's fucking children, eh? They know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

    No wonder me and monkeyfish got banned from CiF. I use this word very sparingly, Seaton, but you deserve it - you're a cunt.

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  55. "either one of you prepared to go over the top on the Seaton thread and name names? Jay's good in an agent provocateur way but I'm not sure he would lay down his posting rights ust yet. Edging that way though..."

    I feel i'm letting the side down here, Hank, what sort of thing are you after? He says there is a special mod thread coming up so i did intend to hold fire and simply lurk in the bushes until then, but if you feel aggrieved i will happily make an early foray?

    Seaton despises me already, fairly openly, so i have to be a little careful, but considering recent events i'm not sure if they could be arsed terminating another "regular", if i qualify for such an honour, so i dont mind rolling the sleaves up overly (perhaps a few days in premod but its the weekend anyway).

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  56. I'll do it... So far they've been pretty loathed to ban any girls... and a proclaimed feminist?

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  57. Hey, Jay, I think you do a fine job keeping the bastards "honest" as it were. I'm looking forward to the moderation thread Matt's promised though. Might even set up a new user id for the occasion.

    @kiz - keep on keeping on

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nbhEsiGurEQ&feature=related

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  58. "So far they've been pretty loathed to ban any girls... and a proclaimed feminist?"


    They wouldnt dare.

    I have just posted a more combative post on there so will see if he responds, though i suspect not - he seems to have a policy of never engaging in dialogue with me.

    I like the idea of a new id for the modding thread, Hank, you sound like a young lady considering a new dress for the ball.

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  59. any suggestions for a new id for any tykes should be phone boothed...

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  60. enjoyed the vid hank ... here's one for you.. not much to see but fab fab song....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VkaLHloHCA

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  61. Martillo - superb (on Seatons thread).

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  62. I don't know, Hank, I'm not sure we feel the same about things. I've posted something about the hypocrisy anyway. Give me a good insulting one liner - one of your best and I'll post it on your behalf.

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  63. Thanks, Jay, much appreciated. I can't think of anything more divisive and inhuman than the standards CIF writers tend to set for everyone apart from themselves.

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  64. Right im signing off for the night, its been an interesting week... And remember we have this modding thread coming up, so i think we ought to hold back a few little gems so that we have some decent artillery to lay siege with.

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  65. @martillo - not quite as superb as Jay's review would suggest but interesting and a debate well worth opening. Some good points. Maybe you or Jay could open up a new thread on here so we could kick it around.

    @kiz - yeh, not heard that one before and enjoyed it. You were obviously a proper punk then. I'm considerably younger than you so didn't get caught up in all that nihilistic nonsense(0:

    This is one of my fave punk vids. Clever, angry and lo-fi. And Kiz features, 2nd left (-;

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37QUUwp9xIs&feature=related

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  66. "I can't think of anything more divisive and inhuman than the standards CIF writers tend to set for everyone apart from themselves."

    Divisive is the word, the Guardian, and identity politics at large, really is maliciously divisive. The fat cats must have been laughing their heads off for 30 years, they're nabbing the railways and utilities whilst we're squabbling over whether "mixed race" or "mixed parentage" is more humane to the bless Other...

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  67. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrvec34qL-M
    It's a friday night so we need a bit of music... here's some pavement for ya....

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  68. Wow hank! ages since I heard any JCC... had the pleasure of seeing him live once... several aeons ago..
    One of my favourite lines from him is..
    'like a sucked and spat out smartie,
    you're no use to anyone'
    I'm sure matt would like it...
    right.. I'm going to see what else I can find for yr delectation... give me a moment...

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  69. "not quite as superb as Jay's review would suggest"

    Come on Hank, it's Friday; you could have let me bask in the glow of that 'superb' for a while...

    Anyway, forget that punk stuff, try this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_JuVBesMQE

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  70. @martillo - "I don't know, Hank, I'm not sure we feel the same about things..."

    I'm pretty sure we dont, martillo. There's not many people who feel the same about things as me - monkeyfish, olching and PeterG most of the time I reckon and Montana maybe...

    Others on here, sometimes we do and sometimes we don't. The bottom line is that I can get on with most on here because, even if I don't agree with everything they say, and vice versa, I think they are all essentially decent people.

    I can't say the same about CiF, and I think it's interesting to see which people have gravitated to Montana's blog from CiF. Self-selecting humane and intelligent posters in the main.

    I do think, martillo, that if those of us on this blog have anything in common it's what Orwell called "common decency", a trait he saw as key to the English character. I still think that's true up to a point, despite the best efforts of some on CiF to prove me wrong.

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  71. Swifty Boy here at 13.25:
    "while no doubt very significant to the bien pensants living out their gilded lives in the chattering enclave you inhabit, means nothing to 99% of the population."

    Matt Seaton on Cif at 10.36:
    "not to inhabit a ghetto of the bien-pensant likeminded and be able to harbour the illusion that this is how 'most people' think."

    Right then, Goldilocks, who's been eating my fucking porridge? I'm loathe to call this plagiarism or intellectual property theft, and I'm no F R Leavis, but let's just do a quick textual comparison :-

    bien pensants - bien-pensant CHECK!
    chattering enclave you inhabit - inhabit a ghetto of the like-minded CHECK!
    means nothing to 99% of the population - the illusion that this is how most people think CHECK!

    You know what? Matt's saying the same thing as Swifty! In nearly the same words! On the same day! Several hours later! Busted or what?

    Nice of you to pop in, Matt, but who said you could sleep in my fucking bed?


    Over to you SwiftyBoy.

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  72. Common decency. I'll drink to that, Hank.

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  73. Hmm, scherfig, but is Matt swifty or is Swifty Matt?

    And much as I love this site, and wouldn't choose to exonerate myself in any way for my banning, it's clear that those of us (you) who still want to remain persona grata on CiF are jeopardising your status by posting on here.

    The saddoes over at GMG are keeping a close eye on us. Brian Whittaker has of course posted on here once or twice, and seems to be the useless idiot Matt will send out on the front line (check the "what do you want to talk about" thread).

    It's no coincidence that both monkey and I got banned soon after this blog got up and running, nor is it a coincidence that the backlash here and on Heresy Corner and on the Cif site itself led to a new lighter touch back-pedalling by the mods.

    Montana has said that noone gets banned on this site. Very laudable. But I'd ban Whitt, the quisling bastard.

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  74. @martillo - yup, salud, Prost and cheers mate (-:

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  75. right.. as I'm on one here's a bit of acoustic qotsa (didn't want to frighten anyone with the electric version)... Heavens but I could give that ginger californian a wee snog...off to check out martillo's offering and see what else I can find...

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  76. shit I didn't post the vid... duh
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Dy56iQd6Jg&feature=related

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  77. and just to show that hard bitten fem battle axes have their soppy side...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhB383UY8QI
    love the guitar on this..

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  78. and just to prove I really am a cookie monster deep down... here's a blast from the past... Used to dance like a maniac to this aged 13... Down at the blackpool mecca ballroom...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wc9V9WigRiA

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  79. martillo, if you think that Seaton would post this

    "You're from Darlo? Jesus, it's no wonder you're a lesbian. I'm a man, and if I came from Darlington, I'd be a bloody lesbian too."

    or this:

    "Well, judging from Gaurdian Media Group's last accounts, Carolyn McCall earned an eye-watering £827,000 in salary, bonus and benefits in kind last year."

    then you've got a theory. I wouldn't tell Swifty though.

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  80. Kizbot
    This is fun

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=VmjGDBWZZFw

    As is this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=2PdKpR9qNtg

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  81. This is better...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N_rNz2oAGA

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  82. UberBitterweed25 April, 2009 05:32

    Stupendously great rock from the old Nazi metaller himself pop pickers

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LFEZkkwSO4

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  83. Love it !!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7wx9RuI4rRY

    Oh my..

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  84. That is actually the best thing I've heard all day.


    Keep it up peeps . xxxxx

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  85. Finally... some classic neocon rock... from the day when.... my buddies...... counted ..............http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=yYYKs8o6-ic

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  86. Jay
    "Thats the problem though Annetan, we dont, we just know either a little jobsworth mod hacked it away off their own back, or an anonymous person, probably fem but not definitely, asked for it to be removed, and then a jobsworth mod git agreed. It does my head in..."

    But Jay the whole Grauniad/Nulab agenda comes from precisely the identity politics mindset that dates from the 70s and 80s. That includes unstinting support for a certain kind of feminism.

    In actual fact I have always believed that this is what made Labour unelectable in the 80's, not Militant who were not nearly as influential and I should know ;-)

    Militant was flawed though but I have them to thank for my education in Marxism.

    Ultimate its the identity politics agenda that has destroyed the labour party and left the working class bereft of any representation.

    Thats the mindset thats deleting your posts Jay I am sure of it.

    ReplyDelete
  87. Well, here: save this one for your late night posting tonight!

    Then there's this one.

    And one more from me for now.

    (And Terry Hall isn't in any of them!)

    ReplyDelete
  88. **Fook me, just read Seaton's latest contribution to the non-asparagus thread. He's not gonna be challenging Cheryl Cole's route to the Gold Run on Blockbusters anytime soon is he?** etc;, etc.

    Hank, that is a beautiful post, apt and very timely. Someone, who does not mind to get banned, should have put it up on Cif for you; for example me.

    ReplyDelete
  89. I am amazed that olching's posts from the Boris thread got deleted. All of them! Literally amazed. I'm even tempted to start using acronyms like WTF and FFS to express my incommunicable astonishment.

    ReplyDelete
  90. Mamokel & Elhamm are giving Seaton what he really deserves.

    Elhaam

    25 Apr 09, 2:26am (about 7 hours ago)

    mattseaton @ 24 Apr 09, 4:11pm

    Your post explained it all about CIF and the ongoing anti-Iran/anti-Islam sentiments. It sounds like you clearly do not judge contributors or posters according to talk policy but your own prejudices - does this explain why so many anti-Islam/anti-Iran posts are allowed to stand?


    Namokel

    25 Apr 09, 9:35am (2 minutes ago)

    What an extraordinary post (24 April, 4:11 pm) by Matt Seaton, the Guardian's Cif Editor, no less!

    At least now we know where the Guardian stands with regard to Israel and Iran; not to forget the oppressed, occupied, ethnically cleansed, raped, exploited, white phosphorous rained on Palestine! Am I wrong in thinking that he would be in favour of bombing Iran back to the Stone Age without good reason?

    Seaton is unfit to be the Editor of this website!

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/24/durban-racism-conference-ahmadinejad?showallcomments=true

    ReplyDelete
  91. @montana - great post on the Seaton thread but did martillo really call you an ignorant twat? Find that difficult to believe tbh, he's one of nature's gents.

    @Hermine - ta very much! Feel free to borrow any lines if you are posting there. (Can't remember whether you've been banned or got bored...)

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  92. "Its the identity politics agenda that has destroyed the Labour Party and left the working class bereft of any representation."

    Spot on, annetan. And the Guardian is of course the home of this agenda and thus as much an enemy of the working class as the Telegraph or the Mail. Which is why it's absolutely legitimate to mention Toynbee's Tuscan villa when she does the social justice thing.

    ReplyDelete
  93. kiz

    Yeah. I remember that. What a sleazy, vampish little episode that was. Although, you were quite good at it as I recall and it was funny. Mind you, now I think about it: in my time on cif, I've been hopelessly infatuated with a pole dancer and her twin sister; I've stalked a radical, post-modern, feminist lesbian and now I'm banned for the equivalent of bloggers' Tourettes. I come across as just bit of a fuck up, don't I?

    Just read Seaton's attempt to brazen things out. Just a little bit sad. Basically, "my ball, my game, I decide who plays and, anyway...it's been a lot better since you lot went" he says...as he passes to the speccy kid with two left feet who promptly trips over the ball and runs in screaming, holding his knee.

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  94. Another point on the Seaton thread - 9milerancher asked about Tuscany and got deleted for doing so, but Matt responded to his post by saying "As you've asked so politely...". Does Matt speak to the mods at all? Do the editorial site have problems differentiating their collective arse from their shared elbow?

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  95. I'm glad you asked that, Hank, since I'm rather confused myself. I sometimes drink rather more than I should while posting. Once or twice, this has led me to posting gratuitous insults, but I certainly don't remember treating Montana in such a fashion. I'm even beginning to wonder whether I do, at some level of my being, think she's an ignorant twat, and if so, how come she knows it and I don't.

    ReplyDelete
  96. Morning Hank

    How's things? You were asking above about my cup final ticket..dunno if I'm going tbh. I'm not paying over the odds and at the moment, there's about 8 of us in the running for 2 tickets from a mate of my uncles, so it's not looking good.
    I might make a day of watching the build-up etc. Used to love it when I was a kid and it went on all day...following the coach...meeting the players...the Fans' It's a Knockout...kickabout in the car park. Why don't they do all that stuff any more?

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  97. I'm fine thanks mate. Or will be if we get a win at Blackpool today.

    Yeh, Cup Final Day used to be a real occasion didn't it, It's a Knockout, Mastermind as well iirc, but then it was pretty much the only live domestic game on the box back then. It was always sunny as well, wasn't it? Oh yes, small boys in the park, jumpers for goalposts, white dog turd, Spangles and Toffos at half-time...

    Did you get the spark plugs in the end? It's been playing on my mind the last couple of days.

    ReplyDelete
  98. Martillo/Montana - crossed wires i think, or she's joking, and if she isnt, well, we'll have no squabbling amongst fellow refugees. Im sure she'll be along to explain in good time, i think its still night time in the land of the free but she should arise in a few hours, douse a donut in coffee and then be along for a chat.

    On the issue of mods/staff looking at this site i would say its mad to tink they would bother, but Brian has posted here a few times, so perhaps they think its worthwhile occasionally looking at to see what people are enjoying/pissed off about.

    Identity politics - should always be a distant second to economic justice, because when the shit hits the fan, like it is now to the tune of about a trillion pounds, everyone gets fucked, black, white, blue, yellow, woman, disabled, atheist, jew.... I also think, if the identity politics was really scaled back to a footnote and a leftwing party just focused on economics, they would actually do increidbly well. There must be plenty of people who feel "economically" on the left but just cant stand this identity shit and wankers like Joseph Harker and Julie Bindel.

    Harkers article on mothers day cards - you cant be electable with people like him on your side.

    ReplyDelete
  99. Yep. Got the spark plugs.

    I'm just reading Keenan Malik's new book...hard to think of a better demolition of identity politics, especially as it's essentially from the left...

    http://www.kenanmalik.com/essays/humanist_culture.html

    #Today's multiculturalists argue that to fight racism one must celebrate group identity. The consequence has been the resurrection of racial ideas and the imprisonment of people within their cultural identities. Racial theorists and multiculturalists, the French philosopher Alain Finkielkraut observes, have 'conflicting credos but the same vision of the world'. Both fetishise difference. Both seek to 'confine individuals to their group of origin'. Both undermine 'any possibility of natural or cultural community among peoples'. Challenging such a politics of difference has become as important today as challenging racism.#

    And who's gonna argue with someone called "Alain Finkielkraut"?

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  100. Jay I would say that apart from being anti racist and anti sexist identity politics should not really exist. In fact the whole issue in the Labour party over black sections (women's sections were there for historical reasons - like women not having the vote when the party was founded) was opposed by many of us precisely because we felt that 'black' issues would be less part of the mainstream. Women's sections did that often an issue of particular relevance to women was passed over to the women's section.

    The old labour movement motto 'an injury to one is an injury to all' applies here and we should all be aware of how things are affecting other groups and take common cause. Racism and sexism are fundamentally class issues because race and gender are the two most common issues on which those who rule us seek to divide us.

    ReplyDelete
  101. #
    exiledlondoner

    25 Apr 09, 12:07pm (10 minutes ago)

    Mr Seaton,

    I've just seen your comment on Benjamin Pogrund's thread, and I am bemused.

    You commission a thread that makes a direct comparison between Iran and Nazi Germany, and between Ahmadinejad and Adolf Hitler - then you appear on the said thread saying...

    The point surely,... is not that any discussion of racism and Israel is banned, but that many delegates (rightly, in my view) took exception to Ahmadinejad's branding of Israel as a "racist state" (as though it were equivalent to and the same as apartheid South Africa or, worse, Nazi Germany).

    Do you think that you're fit to edit CIF? One expects bias, double-standards and bare-faced hipocracy from contributors and posters, but from the referee? The message is clear - Iran / Nazi comparisons are fine (you even pay for them), while Israel / Nazi comparisons are not (which indeed they are not, in my book).

    This is not a call for censorship. I have never asked for a thread or a post to be removed - I believe that the only way to fight bigotry and racism is to challenge it, rather than remove it. However, I would prefer that the final arbiter was neither a fellow traveller, nor an imbecile.

    On this occasion, you give the distinct impression that you might be both.


    Thought I'd better preserve that one.

    ReplyDelete
  102. a harsh post from exiledlondoner on matts thread..



    'Mr Seaton,

    I've just seen your comment on Benjamin Pogrund's thread, and I am bemused.

    You commission a thread that makes a direct comparison between Iran and Nazi Germany, and between Ahmadinejad and Adolf Hitler - then you appear on the said thread saying...

    The point surely,... is not that any discussion of racism and Israel is banned, but that many delegates (rightly, in my view) took exception to Ahmadinejad's branding of Israel as a "racist state" (as though it were equivalent to and the same as apartheid South Africa or, worse, Nazi Germany).

    Do you think that you're fit to edit CIF? One expects bias, double-standards and bare-faced hipocracy from contributors and posters, but from the referee? The message is clear - Iran / Nazi comparisons are fine (you even pay for them), while Israel / Nazi comparisons are not (which indeed they are not, in my book).

    This is not a call for censorship. I have never asked for a thread or a post to be removed - I believe that the only way to fight bigotry and racism is to challenge it, rather than remove it. However, I would prefer that the final arbiter was neither a fellow traveller, nor an imbecile.

    On this occasion, you give the distinct impression that you might be both.'

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  103. Monkeyfish.

    It doesn't really demolish identity politics but it does raise issues re 'group' 'community' blah.

    All politics is about idnetity; well the dynamic betwe identity, interest and group.

    Hi Kiz, I was a student in Preston late 70s early 80s and I dyed my hair blue on a whim.Not that I was a punk, ofcourse.

    Pen

    ReplyDelete
  104. Sorry just hiding this here in case the rotters delete it... got nowhere else to put it right now...

    Why is mentioning the word tuscany... or making anagrams of it in posts malicious or cheap, vulgar abuse...? A bit cheeky perhaps and even off topic... but I can't see how it's that harsh an ad hominem... and enough to get some temporarily and then permanently 'untrusted'... and I'm sorry that the nice, middle class but really not particularly liberal elite of the Graun don't like it when the lower orders laugh at bolly-shevism, but it's stil a valid critique of much of current left wing politics and pretty much all of the labour party (second houses for everyone! the plebs are paying!)... but still, round here, its a crime worthy of the gulag... while the rightwhingers party on unscathed... WHAT AM I MISSING? is it me? am I really so very dim? really really?

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  105. Hank, I toyed with the idea of copying your lovely post, the *fooking* one, and putting it up on Cif as the post from a much loved, now banned, poster. However, I found I was not quite brave enough. Matt Seaton has been insulted enough today already, the swine. He'll probably ban me.

    No, Hermine has not been banned. I just got tired of being hounded by the Giyus lot the moment Hermine appeared on Cif. I did not appreciate being called names, including self-hater and other nasty things.

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  106. #It doesn't really demolish identity politics but it does raise issues re 'group' 'community' blah.#

    Well, OK. Unless you decide to class membership of one of those self-affirming groups/ communities as an identity. Also, when you say it 'raises issues', the issues it raises tend suggest that the promotion, preservation and official recognition of those groups/identities/communities ultimately undermines the groups themselves as well as wider society.

    Until the last two or three decades, identity politics have never been a traditional left wing preoccupation. It militates against unity and cohesion and allows a corrupt and self-serving political class to operate unchallenged by any coordinated, working class opposition. It's the classic tactic of the 'divide and rule' colonialist rebranded for the twenty first century with pseudo-progressive connotations. It stinks.

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  107. I'm with monkeyfish on identity politics.

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  108. actually Hank I'd quite like to post yr first rant on matts thread... as a post from beyond the grave... may I?
    Let me know... I'm just off for the weekend groceries... back in a bit...

    ReplyDelete
  109. To paraphrase monkeyfish, "identity politics militates against unity and cohesion".

    On Cif today: "Too fat to fly? Picking on overweight people is just lazy."
    The writer is a body politics "activist" with a book (Lessons From the Fatosphere) and a couple of blogs ( The Rotund and Marianne Kirby Writes for Fun and Profit).

    Check out the comments. Prime example of unity and cohesion.The logical progression of all this may well be that right wing, left wing, and every thing in between and outside will cease to exist, and we will all become founder (and sole) members of our own political parties. After all, who can best relate to and understand us than ourselves? Fuck everybody else, right?

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  110. kizbot,

    It would be great fun if you posted Hank's rant. I would have done it but after my own rant which, miraculously, still stands, it would not have been a good idea.....

    ReplyDelete
  111. I don't want to appear callous or uncaring here, but a new article has just appeared - "Hierarchy of bodies - From discrimination to violence, transgender people face issues that many of us are blind to." I do wonder if there is any cross-over between the victimised transgender people and the victimised fat people. And would there be a political identity crisis if one were both?

    What's the current unemployment figure, btw? Gotta love the Guardian.

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  112. Kiz - yes, please do, it's about time you had a proper spell in pre-mod (-;

    Hermine - seems like Seaton's taking a pasting from everyone but Wheatie today. He might be reconsidering the new modding guidelines right now. Btw, don't let the GIYUS mob get you down. Single issue fanatics with timeshares in the same single brain cell.

    ReplyDelete
  113. Hi Guys,

    Guessed that might get a response. I think we probably have diff concepts of 'identity' 'group' blah.

    'Left wing' is that an identity, a group, a seating arrangement?

    Reality trumps politics.

    Identity is bandied around but is largely just a word with little content, low ontological validity re refererent as you lack a theory of 9social) group.

    If it's the Mallick I'm thinking of he's Ok, kinda in the ball park.

    Interest is a function of identity (and vice versa, duh). How's a group diff from a category?

    Pen

    ReplyDelete
  114. Montana's been deleted from the Seaton thread. Pretty sure her post wasn't any more vitriolic than some that still remain, eg exiledlondoner's. The mods really don't do their cause any favours with this scattergun approach.

    Given that Bitterweed was still merrily youtubing at 6 this morning, I'm guessing he's not got up yet so did anyone else see his 4am epistle to Matt which got deleted?

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  115. Scherfig, I've long appreciated that I'm a minority, an army of one. But, despite what they say, it's not always the big battalions that win. The art of war is not to wage it. I'll raise my standard but not be a bannerman.

    Field Marshall PPG

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  116. Can't speak for anyone else here but the only 'identity' that means that much to me is human.

    Except that in political & economic terms I identify with the working class which embraces gender and race as far as I am concerned.

    PPG i don't think the human race would last long if we all adopted such extreme individualism. We are a social species and owe our evolutionary success to that fact.

    The question we all have to ask ourselves is do we want to?

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  117. ok hank it's the first rant I'm going to put up... not the one where you call him a cunt... and I'm just going to say it's a post from beyond the grave on another blog.... hang on...

    ReplyDelete
  118. Field Marshall

    #'Left wing' is that an identity, a group, a seating arrangement?

    Reality trumps politics.#

    Ok, if you want to go the road of describing any attribute as an 'identity' and so render the term meaningless, fair enough. However the phrase 'identity politics' has a sense independent of your efforts to drain the word identity of meaning.

    Or, if you like...we can redefine left wing or at least socialist identity as "A member of the most inclusive group committed to mutual well being. A group potentially open to the whole of mankind."

    ReplyDelete
  119. This is looking promising, by the way, PPG. It could be the first full-on ideological row this site has hosted. I'll look in later...off to do the shopping and other sundry domestic shit.

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  120. scherfig, i just had a look at caths blog for some reason, and you tried to have an actual adult discussion with them. What were you thinking? Surely you must know the game over there now? I really wouldnt waste my breath with that pond life again.

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  121. iT'S UP... I left out the first para (didn't seem relevant) and the liberal wankers phrase at the end... i hope you don't mind the asterisks Hank but I did it in the vain hope it might stay up for a bit.... xxx

    ReplyDelete
  122. Guys, guys, guys.

    Yeah, well some debate no bad thing?

    Extreme individualism? Moi? Hahahaha. Depends what you mean by extreme and by individualism.

    Altho' methodological individualism is popular in soc sci. And, again being honest, I could say my PhD was on games theory, whatevs.

    I gotta be careful, my son's doing int rels / politics so I don't want to sneer too much about it but, yeah, reality trumps politics insofar as politics is ideology and not phenomenon (episteme not ontology). The relation twixt the two (episteme and ontology, representation and reality) is twisty but is there. reality is unitary.

    See it's not ideology, it's post science.

    Annetan42 you have kids and grandkids, yeah? No identity as mum, parent etc? Do you walk? Do you ever feel pedestrian? I know I do on my pweripetetic wanderings.

    A group is not just an identity so how does it have ontologicval presence? We are each of us amalgams, our 'genes' not all uniform.

    When a group is present it is a unity?

    Hey, I've been demoted to private but at least I escaped the decimation.

    Perhaps I should devote myself for victory.

    Private (or is that public?) Pen

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  123. Kiz that comment will last about 15 minutes i reckon. Excellent work.

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  124. well if I get into trouble yr to stick up for me Jay!
    And I'm just dying to know what Cath's said about you, me and BTH.... love a bit of tittle tattle!

    ReplyDelete
  125. Heh, just found this thing.

    I've got a little story about CiF & Seaton hypocrisy which I would love to post in the Seaton thread but think it would be prudent not to.

    A couple of weeks ago a friend of mine (who writes the occasional CiF piece) was asked to comment on an aspect, then not covered by the media, of a story which he expressed strong opinions about. He declined and directed the person to a blog I run under another pseudonym where I had covered this aspect in some depth previously. After a small nudge I penned a piece intended for submission to CiF when was recieved favourably by the person who contacted the person I know (confidentiality demands I be opaque). It was submitted to Seaton who rejected it on the grounds that they didn't think it was appropriate for CiF - fine I can handle rejection. Two days later several articles appeared on CiF making my points, using my arguments and evidence but from bylined authors.

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  126. Course i will Kiz, though i may be logging off quite soon and my not be back on till tomorrow afternoon or so, i got essay to do, grim...

    ReplyDelete
  127. http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2009/apr/05/domestic-violence-charity-funding


    Thats quite funny - the identity industry getting tripped up by their own legislation. "What? No no, there's been a mistake, when we said 'equality', we didnt actually mean it literally!"

    I think they were wise not to allow comments on this one and keep it under the radar.

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  128. commander- aren't you one of the few posters, if not the only, to be once banned and then let back with your original name?

    ReplyDelete
  129. Interesting story, commander. Can I refer again to my earlier post (00.51) about Seaton's comment? Is it just me, or did Matt read Swifty's comment here and just rewrite it a bit and express the same sentiments to make a point about how in touch the G wanted to be? Poor apologetic for letting fascist fuckwits write ATL, but there you go. Does nobody else see the similarity?

    Jay, against my better judgment, I took a brief foray into Cath's blog (after all the heat had died down). Despite Cath's partial agreement with me, and at least one poster thinking I was genuine (I was), my apparent semantics revealed me as a misogynist troll. And so, I was fucked. Hey ho, I'll try most anything once (and I stress once.)

    btw How's your weekend with ultima going? That minx!

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  130. i'll give you that one scherfig, that made me chuckle... (ultima, weekend, *shivers*)

    I had a read through, i thought you did quite well but eventually the weight of bile dragged you down, they really are a lovely little bunch over there...

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  131. I hate to do it scherfig... it really pains me... but I'm going to do it anyways...
    told you so...:-)

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  132. Scherig's closer with his set theory / venn diagrams.

    But it's also confusion over 'category' and 'group'. Searle's distinction between epistemological and ontological objective and subjective is relevant here. (Did mention that on CiF to no avail). A category is an abstraction ie epistemological even though instances may be extant ie have ontological presence. A group is an entity.

    The set of instantiations of a belief may be treated as a category but is not necessarily an entity.

    What is the 'human race'? A set of actual particulars and if so of 'people' or of 'genes', an abstraction, an entity, or what?

    I'm not trying to empty identity of meaning so much as better found it.

    Let me take another tack. A standard assumption of 'rightist' economics (Friedman) is selfish utility maximisation. Inds are assumed to be rational and this entails ahving a 'utility function' - a mapping of all possible states of the world in terms of the actors preferences - and this is stable and endogenous.

    Actual research shows that this is untrue, people are (at best) bounded rational, interest is evaluated more on the fly and shows systematic effects dependent on framing, cog procs, blah (behavioral economics). Identification is an important element in these processes allowing rapid processing and evaluation of act /event chains.

    Identification is strongly representational. Mucg debate / struggle is re definitional issues - what are the attributes of the true Brit / man/ lefty / whatev. Therse always tend to be skewed towards the source.

    Re the modding and Cif I must say I admire you guys martial vigour. Medals for all.

    Carry on.

    Pen (dishonourable discharge)

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  133. Nice work, kiz, thanks for that. I feel almost born again (-:

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  134. Jeez, kiz, that's harsh. Is it because I'm a bloke?

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  135. no, scherfig, it's not because yr a bloke... its because I'm a baggage...
    still up there hank... not that that means it will stay...

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  136. kizbot - yes I was banned and I was allowed to come back. I suspect there is a high turnover of mods (university holidays for the children of staff writers are so short, aren't they?) so my transgression was forgotten, I'm on a final warning at the moment though for other incidents (robustly using authentic Anglo-Saxon to inform above the line commentators that they are wrong and quoting Inayat Bunglawala to disprove a point Inayat Bunglawala was making).

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  137. Your on a final warning as well commander? i don't fucking believe it! Nothing really is sacred at cif... not facts, not real opinions and certainly not debate... christ on a stick! that's really pissed me off...
    Send an email to wildhack... I'm sure she'd give you an invite for the phone booth... you might like it there too...

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  138. purged! Took em a while but suppose it was inevitable...

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  139. Just posted a new post on Individualism and class action if anyone is interested.

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  140. Re economics one can distinguish betw.

    under certainty

    under risk

    under uncertainty

    strategic

    The 1st is what kinda classic econ deals with, you know buying something in a shop.

    I was in the bakery earlier (those buns don't bake themselves). It was busy but when it was my turn I said may I have four currant bun s and pointed but there were no buns. So I said oh a bun loaf please, I didn't say anything when an iced round was boxed and bagged. The tray of buns then re-appeared, whatevs. I then asked for 3 cheese baps. I've just opened the bag and they're sesame rolls.

    Damn those economists!

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  141. Was it a category error, do you think?

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  142. NO, no, no! Martillo has never called me an ignorant twat - no one has yet (on CiF, at least). It was merely an example and I used Martillo because his post was above mine and I was pretty sure he wouldn't mind being used in a hypothetical. It didn't occur to me than anyone from over here wouldn't realise it was just a hypothetical. Sorry, Martillo!

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  143. "Kiz, have a little faith. It was probably just an honest mistake. Here's your post again"

    This made me laugh a lot, you're on form today scherfig....

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  144. I posted my comment above as soon as I saw that there was some confusion about my comment on the Seaton thread. Then I posted a comment on the Seaton thread explaining and apologising to martillo. Then I discovered that they'd deleted the comment. ??? Twat was the only bad word in the comment, it was in reference to myself & nothing else in the post was abusive of anyone in any way.

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  145. mighty busy with that essay then jay?

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  146. Ah, "BREEZE" has popped back up on the porn thread, you remember the cliche ridden fem who could bat a bit (in the buzzword sense), Swifty - if you're around and you havent seen a quality innings for a while, enjoy this unbeaten century (it also has my fave ever fem buzzword - "brave":

    A very brave article given misogynists will immediately seize upon yet another opportunity to demonise women and feminism.

    But the reality is we do live in a pornified culture and one furthermore wherein it is common for images of women to be depicted as puppets of men's sexual voraciousness. Furthermore such images normalise male sexual and physical violence against women and girls.

    The number of men convicted of rape is now only 5.6% and that means nearly 95% of men charged with rape are acquitted. Pornography does not directly cause male violence against women but it certainly normalises and promotes such violence. Constantly viewing images of women as dehumanised, sexualised objects does impact on men and yes it does cause many of them to consider it their right to sexually harass women and girls.

    I note there are no such images of men depicted as sexualised, submissive naked creatures and the reason is because pornography is made by and for the consumption of men. This includes homosexual pornography and lesbian pornography because the concept is identical to heterosexual porn for men.

    But of course given the pornography industry and its bed fellow prostitution is a huge profitable industry it is not surprising there is immense opposition.

    But Object have demonstrated time and again they are not 'alone' in calling for pornography to be regulated and for men's pornography magazines such as Nuts, Maxim, Loaded and Zoo to be placed on the top shelf with their front covers covered.

    Well done Object for treating the police's over hysterical reaction with humour. Perhaps one day women will be actually treated with respect and dignity rather than men's dehumanised sexualised commodities. This right has been accorded to men for centurie and it is time women too were seen as fully human not just a sexualised commodity.

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  147. montana, I read your post before deletion. No big deal, I thought. I assume it was deleted for off-topic/personal reference to other posters (ultima was also mentioned). Just shows that you have to be very careful in your choice of words now. Which is not to say that other posters don't get away with murder, but let's assume that posters who post here are, shall we say, known to the authorities.

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  148. "mighty busy with that essay then jay?"

    its not my fault, my housemate had loud music, so i of course had to stop, have been messing around on youtube and got a young lady on her way over (a Kiwi sadly, these colonials can be desperately hard work). The essay will have to wait till tomorrow (or possibly monday, but it is very tedious, its an economics module...)

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  149. I think ultimas shagging Seaton, thats why her nonsense never gets deleted.

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  150. "Now kiss and make up or you're all going to bed without supper and no tv.

    Come on - who's first?"


    (i couldnt resits, BTH is gonna love this)

    "Bitethehand - you're a really special guy, and a true gentleman. I am in awe of your tender compassion and relentless defence, and embodiment of, feminine values. You are the "new man" to my ape, the beauty to my beast, and the gentleman to my scoundrel. If you could forgive my sins, we could forge a friendship so intimate as to challenge the very distinction between homo and hetrosexuality. Together, BTH, me... and you... could be really special.

    Hold me..."

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  151. Oh dear! Of all the posters, on all the threads, in all the world, you had to choose the most paranoid, Montana. I'm sooo relieved not to have called you an ignorant twat...

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  152. jay that is demonic....
    I think the 'hold me' has made my evening...
    you are a card...

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  153. Montana, I figuered it was a hypothetical (not that I doubt Martillo's capability to call you a twat and, any way there's being called a twat and being called a twat isnt there).

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  154. I got slightly carried away Kiz, what can i say... lets see if the little chap responds.

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  155. Fuck me, Jay, only half a weekend with the thule, and you've not only gone Antipodean, but are shamelessly objectivizing the asexual entity that is BTH. How much are those mushrooms per kilo, btw?

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  156. Ultima left when i refused to do a Darcy role play with her, the Kiwi wont be here for a while so thought i would fill the sexual hole with some sensual bonding with the "revolting sycophant".

    Mushrooms... now there's a mess i havent been in for a long time....

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  157. Ah that's so sweet Jay.

    Pen

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  158. Kiwi has arrived, see ya tomorrow folks!

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  159. Has anyone got any vids to post... am a bit bored. The corfiot is still in Corfu and I'm on my tod... hence me being about so much in the past few days.. I could torture the cat again but she's getting pissed off with me now too

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  160. Scherfig - You may be right, but I don't think my comment was off-topic - I was trying to point out that, if a little BTL commenter like me can handle being the object of personal abuse, then people who have chosen a profession which puts them in the public eye, a profession that is largely built upon them being critical of other people who are in the public eye, then they surely ought to have a pretty high tolerance for personal abuse. What I'm really wound up about right now is that other people have pretty much made all of the same points that I made in my post - and often in a much more 'abusive' tone.

    And I didn't save the damn thing because it never occurred to me that it would be deleted -- it seemed so reasonable to me.

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  161. montana, don't think it was abuse. I'm just guessing the personal reference to other posters.

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  162. Got no vids kiz but am happy to chat (or not)

    Pen

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  163. Try this, Kizbot...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnf7ISLpQdw

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  164. kiz - socialism, solidarity, salsa and citrus.
    Little Steven and Ruben Blades. Play very loud.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5FEXDPal_4

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  165. Bubble'n'squeak progrock, martillo.

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  166. One for montana - "Kvinde min"

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XwA7bBvm0IY

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  167. That was fab martillo- Greeks... you gotta love em...
    Pen You've got to go back to that bakers and go on a rant about theories of categorisation...
    gonna go check scherfigs vid out now and then I'm going to try and find one to pay back uberbitterweed for his vid...
    btw did anyone check out wildhack's first vid with the mad russian... mental...

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  168. Which one Kiz, he's very prolific, I can't keep up.

    And no,category error or just plain error, the last thing I need to do is that. I have to keep myself v toned down in public.

    Pen

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  169. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ozkfFav2Rk
    This ones for bitterweed..payback time

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  170. 'I have to keep myself v toned down in public.'
    That made me laugh... I can imagine!

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  171. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jdKr9noUM44&feature=PlayList&p=28691E5887C5E8D0&index=0&playnext=1
    here's a truly lovely greek song from the late lamented Sideropoulos

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  172. Kiz, have some pity, it's actually not exactly funny for me.

    I was 'complimented' on the size of my breasts the otherday. I lack both boobs and moobs.

    Liked the kung fu theme, (it's the matrix hey I know kung fu) can I be what's his face MMmmmm Mmm the sword saint? Or just some sandaled ronin will do.

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  173. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WICrHBzTLM4
    one for wildhack

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  174. do you wanna be Jet Li pen? Most of his hollywood films are utter cack but the hong kong ones rock... his first is just fab fab fab... Shaolin Temple... fantastic film!

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  175. Hate to say it but Bruce is a better fit :).

    Jet Li okay too and yeah I think I've seen it. I like the way some of them segue from comedy to tragedy in a way H'wood just does not do.

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  176. i've got a bit of a thing about HK movies.. They do mayhem like no one else... Hardboiled is just about the top action movie eveeer... The arthouse stuff is pretty fab too..
    And I'm still cross that Scorsese got so many oscars for The Departed... Not a patch on the original Infernal Affairs...

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  177. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sinwRBa8ros&feature=related
    This is fun... Songs the cramps taught us...

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  178. Yeah, I'm a sucker for them also but the Jap ones too. I loved 7 samurai 1st time I saw it (bbc2 I think).

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  179. Gotta go elide myself with sex and drugs, whatevs :). catch you later.

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  180. Aha.... so this is where everyone's gone...

    Nice place. Doesn't seem to be an option for me to create my own thread on my screen, but thats probably just as well.

    As to random videos, if you're into the whole HK thing you might like this..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ippMPPu6gh4

    Not a fight movie, but David Belle from District 13 doing what he does best.

    Anyway... off to do other things but will be back.

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  181. Oh, Kiz, Vysotsky wasn't mad - he was a genius. Okay, maybe a mad genius. But you gotta love 'im.

    Try this if you prefer Spanish pop to Russian folk. And the guys will get to ogle a very young Penelope Cruz.

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  182. Kiz and Montana - check the Rawnsley thread, some geezer on there's a JCC fan too. Quality vid.

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  183. ooh that was fun hank.. I've just posted a jcc about pies in reply... totally irrelevant of course (as are all my pie references) but it's a fab vid...

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  184. "You'll always get a guy with a pie..."

    Sweet or savoury for you, kiz? I'm a home made steak and mushroom puff pastry pie guy, but every now and then I have to have a tinned Fray Bentos. Hate myself the following morning but, on the upside, I have been given the freedom of Uruguay for services to its export industry.

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  185. savoury! Not got a sweet tooth at all... i do a champion cheese and onion... a potato pie to die for... and my spanakopita's not bad

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  186. Hmm, I'm seeing a trend here which doesn't involve minced unmentionables from fluffy little animals. What the hell does a potato pie consist of? Pastry and potato?

    Don't get me wrong, I'm as compassionate as anyone about the deprivation suffered by Lancastrian slum dwellers, but "potato pie"? Jeez, Orwell was obviously persuaded to censor the most shocking stuff before publishing "The Road to Wigan Pie".

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  187. Its got shed loads of butter in it and really is divine... best served with mashed carrot and swede... And Blackpool has never been a slum you cheeky monkey! mecca of the north...

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  188. Kiz, Vai ?!! Ha ha you fucking lunatic, love it. Here's Satch....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VK-slJC_2TY

    (Hint: it's about fucking)

    I like it...

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  189. Oh fuck that was so good... now, in a moment of complete calm, here's something I threw at her Montananesse recently, on CiF.

    Fucking gobsmacking.

    And if you don't get it, you really need to just lie down an die.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=GB&hl=en-GB&v=oGAFOz5GA8I

    Yeh.

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  190. Look. I work 9 to 5, run a band, play gigs, and then get fucked on the weekends. Where IS everybody when I get in ? Pansies.

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  191. By the way monkeyfish, I fucked Julie Burchill once. It was like being chained to a wilderbeast for a fiscal year. Wicked.

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  192. pooves tha lot of ya [exits fighting self]

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  193. Nite then... this is simply, and irreductably the most splendid thing mankind has ever achieved...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=duSL3y2LASI

    I bid you all well.

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  194. And to complete the unholy triumvirate... the mad swede..
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNOa5Gjh2lc&feature=related
    This is wot having brothers does to a girl...

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  195. Kiz
    Yeh, I used to play all that stuff, pretty convincingly too.. twas fun twenty yrs ago...(heh heh)... as was this:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymdssZOAx3Q

    'n' this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IWl77o3l50

    heroic nonsense %-)
    xxxxxxxx

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  196. I thought you'd gone to bed! I'm going to have to... It's bleedin half 6 in the morning here... and the whiskey's gone...

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  197. Gay gonzoid nonsense..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yj3Ob_Er9WQ

    OR, and I mean OR... dig the best band ever... ever ever ever... ORCHESTRA BAOBAB... and their fine tune, Hutru Horas....

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aE6aCm41aPU

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  198. Oh did you want a medal ? heh heh...

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  199. Bitterweed [Jack: I've licked the Big C]26 April, 2009 04:44

    It really doesn't get any better than Orchestra Baobab.... x

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