20 April 2009

Roll of Honour?

Following the inclusion of individuals such as DavidTHarryBlog and JeremyHP on the list of ex-Ciffers, some of us felt rather squeamish about the name Roll of Honour. Furthermore, we have started to include posters who have either passed away or have 'disappeared' (i.e. stopped contributing for whatever reason and won't be returning). 

Montana has (provisionally?) changed it to The Banned and The Dead, but I feel there is something blunt about 'The Dead'. Frank Fisher, on the other hand, sees no problem with that (precisely because it's blunt...?). He half-jokingly suggests The Disappeared, which would be useful but for the historical connotations. Montana reckons something like The Good, The Bad and The Banned or The Banned Played On would be apt. For those appreciative of Queen I recommend The Nevermores.

Any other suggestions?

Who else is missing?

324 comments:

  1. Suggestion 1: "ex-Cif'er's"
    Suggestion 2: Let's be a bit less anal about this whole Cif thing. Cif is related to this blog, but it's not the be all and end all. We can talk about other things too.

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  2. Hi guys, it's DriveByAbuser here. I had to quit Cif ayear ago after being a few of us were abysmally treated at a Seasick Steve gig (by staff at Birmingham Carling Academy - don't ever go there), got home, opened the vodka, and posted a few home truths to Soumaya Ghanoush and and Martin Jacques. The mods suggested I fucked off. I did, but now post under a different tag.

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  3. Hi DBA, I think we've figured out your new moniker. I didn't know your 'reinvention' but parallax informed us; I was very pleased to know, but not surprised that your new moniker was actually good old DBA in its two or three guises. It all fell into place :0)

    What did the mods tell you? By email? I thought a Julie Burchill thread had done you. I just remember some posters saying their farewells to you following a deleted comment by yourself (and sadly one I never got to read). I think even you managed to sneak a short 'bye' in after that. But apparently that wasn't the thread that killed you...

    Anyway, sounds like it was a fun night...

    Scherfig, to be a little more anal and thus standing right in the pedantry corner, is it "Cif'ers", "Ciffers", "CiFers"? Generally speaking I agree, but we need un nom des mortes.

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  4. Oooh - kind of a weird feeling to come here and find a new post...1st time that's happened.

    As far as the list goes - I'm not fussed what it's called, myself. Not sure that "dead" is disrespectful - just blunt. But honestly, it doesn't matter to me.

    And I'm in complete agreement with scherfig that we shouldn't feel like we can only talk about Cif-related stuff. How many book clubs actually talk about the book?

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  5. They don't. They end up having affairs and arguing about wine.

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  6. And do you pronounce "Cif" with a hard or soft 'c'?

    BTW - Hi DBA!

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  7. Well, we're too far away from each other for affairs and I know squat about wine (apart from the vague idea that one does not produce rosé by mixing a white with a red), but there's always music & football....

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  8. olching
    Hi mate, I am indeed back now for a year or so - as the bitterweed. My original deletion was after three deleted posts @ Julie Burchill.
    I simply said "Oh fuck the big Brighton cunt".

    Then I got into an almighty flame war with some SWP c@nt over Martin jacques legendary bigging up of the Burmese junta.

    Funilly enough, the last straw was after two lengthy posts where I'd really gonbe to town on my research - about Tony Martin murder and the use of tazers, only to get my posts deleted by the fucking mods, no swear words, everything fully referenced. I quit that night for a long while. I have held them in utter, utter contempt for a long time now. If they were clerical staff, I certainly wouldn't expect them to get the filing right on a contentious police brutality case, put it that way, the craven, groupthinking smegma.

    How's you ? Have you resigned now too ?!

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  9. Bitterweed! How's your head feeling? (Or, how was it feeling when you woke up Sunday a.m.?)

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  10. Montana
    Hi, its DBA / Bitterweed. I pronounce CiF with a soft "C" and like a good robust winebox.

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  11. Montana
    My head on Sunday was not good, I had a gig that afternoon too. Damn.

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  12. I pronounce it with a soft 'c' too. Wine gives me headaches. Don't drink alone, which means I haven't had a drink for over a year. How sad is my life?

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  13. I'm giggling. But I'm not unsympathetic.

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  14. Lol, I thought it might have been something like that. I arrived too late to that thread, just saw the reactions to your post. Fond memories.

    Yes, parallax told us about the DBA-Bitterweed link. I hadn't cottoned on to be honest. I just noticed that you (DBA, DBAP x2) disappeared, and then a few months later this Bitterweed fella started amusing me (especially the late night drunken one-liners: "Who is this smug cunt" on Emily Hill's thread).

    Have I resigned? No, not yet. I've commented on the What do you want to talk about thread, but that's it. I've gone off it, not merely because of the latest bannings, but because of its content (a lot of it is real tat), some vile trolling, and the 2.0 attitude.

    Montana, I'd pronounce it with a soft 'c', otherwise you get Kiffers, though in Bitterweed's case it's interchangeable.

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  15. Montana
    The whole point of Saturday night is to crack open the wine box after veryone's gone to bed, and go "night fishing" on You Tube for classic and ephemeral tracks, and then go fishing on CiF for other deviants. OK... it's actually more fun than it sounds !

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  16. Yeah olching, it's definitely diminishng returns these days... wouldn't blame you for resigning, can't beleive how shoddilly they've treated old WML, the big swaggering git had me howling occasionally.

    Forgot about that Emily Hill one... oops !

    OK, I've had one too many, iyt's far too late, and it's only Monday night - have work in the morning... night all !
    %-)

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  17. Well, I'm glad you do it - you keep unearthing songs I haven't thought about for years. "Dancing in the City" a week ago - was one of my favourite songs when it came out.

    Olching - you lost me on the "interchangeable" thing. Is there information about Bitterweed that I'm lacking?

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  18. Oops. Still up. Bollocks

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  19. Also, can't believe how fucking piss poorly treated have been monkeyfish and hank; I am tempted to up the antagonism on your behalf(s?)

    Bastard CiF moderators; thought we had a fucking deal.

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  20. Bitterweed, your body clock is seriously out of tune with the demands of a day job. Just checked back in with the Monbiot thread and saw that you'd posted there after you told us you were going to bed. E-mail me so that we can get you into the Phone Booth.

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  21. Someone called Osho posted

    "If you chuck brown-nosying lobby hacks into newspaper coloumns, you cant get rid of the smell

    pooh, it stinks in here"

    on Michael white's thread about 3 1/2 hrs ago. i think comparing someone to a pile of shit is pretty abusive don't you(even if its true!)? Will the mods delete it?

    I'm going to watch this with interest!

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  22. Hi guys!

    I am not dead!! I am still alive and as alwasy kicking some real asses elsewhere on the www! ;-)


    xx

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  23. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  24. Brian Whitaker on the "What do you want to talk about" thread yesterday:

    "Regardless of the opinions commenters may hold, we don't want personal abuse in the threads."


    The following comments are all from Polly's thread today:

    "Why does the Guardian persist in giving this ignorant disnumerate bigot a platform for her half witted opinions?"

    "And how about telling us how poor and humble little Polly grew up? With a famous and rich dad that gave her all the opportunities in life? How little Polly benefited from all the systems she now wants to destroy."

    "The writer of this article is beyond ridicule , but don't let that stop you boys and girls, you're certainly making me smile!"

    "The definition of rich is anyone with more money than Polly."

    "Look, I know that week after week Polly continually reinforces her status as an intellectual pygmie, but theres no need to follow her."

    "I used to think this woman was just think.
    I then realised she was really, really f**king thick.
    Now I know she is dangerously mad as well as thick.
    I wonder what the view is like from the sitting room (not lounge, that's common) window of Toynbee's villa in Tuscany is like?"

    All the above are still extant (appart from the last one) - a villa too far perhaps?

    PS osho's comment has now been up for 5 hours. That's what I call consistency.

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  25. Hi all (Pen here).

    The 'disappeared and the departed'? Covers both self and other imposed cificide and the historical associations are ok. Who owns history? Not me, all property is theft (including intellectual).

    I like remembering ancestors, why harry the North when one can harrow hell? There's been about 10 to the 80 odd 'organisms' so it's a long list.

    Scherfig, I have images of cifers registering and Matt thwacking each around their head and saying 'yer name is Jams O'Donnel'. Consistancy is not his strong suite. (I know spelling and comprehensibility are not mine.)

    Meandering on (but topologically I guess all lines are straight)CiF is a very mixed bag. I treat it as a membrane. Bang it occasionally for the sound, touch it for the vibe.

    Bitterweed, brevity and bitterness, hooray!

    Pen

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  26. Oh my, Montana - soft C for Cif, i should say. I know Comment is hard, but a hard C in Cif is just a silly word, a really silly word, a soft C Cif is much better.

    I quite liked the Good, the Bad and the Banned, but lets be honest, it doesnt really matter what its called, its simply making a point.

    "is it "Cif'ers", "Ciffers", "CiFers"?"

    I say Ciffers.

    So tehrankid lives - i may be moving down your neck of the woods actually.

    I have never been brave enough for late night drunken Ciffing, i get into enough trouble sober, god knows what would happen if i was let loose after a few whiskys, the mods would destroy me and i would have to join our fallen comrades in the big forum in the sky....

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  27. A "c" followed by an "i" is always soft in English. So it's pronounced "siffers".

    A possible spelling might be "wankers".

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  28. I always thought it was soft too, but given the recent moderation policy maybe it ought to be harsh?

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  29. Let's face it, pronouncing it as a k makes it sound like they/we are all potheads and that can't be right.

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  30. Steady on, dotterel, it's frowned upon to criticise moderation policy here. You'll be getting yourself deleted if you're not careful.

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  31. We could pronounce it "syfers" to avoid allegations of drug abuse and add an air of mystery.

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  32. Grr AB thread

    Arggh no time to form a coherent argument that'd get past the $%&*$%^$"£$ moderators

    can't actually believe they tell us off for being offensive then print that complete and total load of £$^$%^ "£$^%^£$ %^$£%^£ing "£^&(*&^(!!!!

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  33. The Brown thread is a disgrace.

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  34. Dotterel
    Which thread ?? Ol' Andy Brown ? I never bother with the strange person...

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  35. Bitterweed: yes

    contemplating a post there that may well end my CIF career...

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  36. Oh no no no no no no no... I just went and read that ghastly piece

    Dotterel... after me:

    I must not comment
    I must not comment
    I must not comment
    I must not comment
    I must not comment

    What a complete and utter sanctimonious bastard that guerning fuckpig is, I hope he gets cancer of the cock.

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  37. dont do it Dot, we have lost enough of the tribe as it is with these brutal slayings. Brown is under the spotlight on that thread, his refusal to engage looks absolutely dreadful, the work is done Dot - he knows he's in the wrong and he knows it doesnt look good.

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  38. Jay
    You are a master of restraint, you really are mate.

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  39. AB doesn't seem to see that what he said - that crimonals don't have freedom of belief is appalling! Now he is trying to make out that what he meant was they didn't have the right to believe crime is OK! AS if...

    Couldn't reply politely to that! Its the sort of double think the jesuits used to use ffs!

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  40. "What a complete and utter sanctimonious bastard that guerning fuckpig is, I hope he gets cancer of the cock."

    I think that would guarantee a swift CIF death, though would go down in the hall of fame of CiF posts.

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  41. Bitterweed:

    "I must not comment
    I must not comment
    I must not comment
    I must not comment
    I must not comment

    What a complete and utter sanctimonious bastard that guerning fuckpig is, I hope he gets cancer of the cock."

    Thank you, I feel better now!

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  42. "Jay
    You are a master of restraint,"

    I think Ultima and Bidisha may disagree ;)

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  43. Jay
    Ha ha, LOL matey ! Hang in there. I must say whenever Bidisha posts an article the moderators get so fucking tense I can smell their paranoid, acrid sweat from ninety miles away, bless 'em
    Mad as fridge full of civet cats.

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  44. "Mad as fridge full of civet cats."

    Bidisha or the mods?

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  45. Gotta feel for the mods on a Biddy or Bindel thread, just think of their little faces dropping when they read the Barry George piece...

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  46. In case they wipe it... (I'm still shaking with rage)

    "The alcoholic has wrecked their life (and, in this story, their car as well). If they are not to do so again, they need to give up a lot of their most precious beliefs or attitudes towards the world. "

    Andrew, what therapy or otherwise - sexaholics anonymous ? - would you enforce on the thousands of paeodophile priest who have destroyed lives over the decades while hiding in the extralegal bowel of churches of many denominations ?

    For a drunk driver to believe they have done wrong they may or may not need God.

    For a perverted, narcisisitc, psychopathic child rapist who is a member of the clergy to believe they have done wrong... perhaps they need to face facts that their God has abondoned them completely to the same vast soulless expanse of hell on earth they have inflicted on the innocent rape victims, often for their mortal lives, and be banned for life from collective prayer or entry to your sanctified warehouses of anti-thought.

    Just a thought.

    There. I haven't been too rude have I moderators ?

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  47. He looks that a fat medieval Bishop contemplating the burning of a heretic. His face has self satisfaction written all over it. Ach y fu (Welsh term of disgust pr Uch u vee)

    Thats about as insulting as I get!

    Liked yours though esp 'guerning fukpig'!

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  48. "His face has self satisfaction written all over it"

    I cant argue there.

    Bitterweed - i give your post 16 minutes before deletion. Though perhaps considering the general mood the mods are going a bit easier at the minute.

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  49. Oh god he's such a huge arrogant bell end it makes me want to smack something

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  50. Hi Guys

    MaM's mostly dull and dumb (located in the What the fuck do those scientists know range)

    But being serious.

    My gripe is less the modding per se and more the lack of original thoughtful articles etc and the abscence of 'joined up thinking'.

    I tend to post on the belief stuff cos what the fuck is it all about? The MM on'selfishness' isn't linked to the one on 'just war' nor to Abs latest yet its all the same thing at base. Most comments just repeat the same names and sources and arguments. All of it is old hat.

    Anyhow.

    Pen

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  51. right, got to go, catch you later.

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  52. Dot
    Bidisha. Mad as cheese she is.
    By for now. x

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  53. Has anyone seen the latest "poll":

    Should speed limits be lowered?

    (tickbox) Yes, I love little fluffy hedgehogs and children and cats me!

    (tickbox) No, I'm an evil Jeremy Clarkson worshipping selfish petrol head, death to everyone!

    (I paraphrase, but the sentiments the same!)

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  54. Montana, I meant what 'anonymous' posted:

    "Let's face it, pronouncing it as a k makes it sound like they/we are all potheads and that can't be right."

    In Bitterweed's case (judging by the name only, mate) it might well be pronounced 'ki(e)ffers'.

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  55. Oh, TehranKid, good to see you. Did David Toube lobby to get you sacked? Is he a prick? Does the sun rise and set?

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  56. Wait... dude. What ?

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  57. BITTERWEED

    Long time no see...how's things?
    Been giving cif a bit of a wide berth meself. Every time I look in I'm totally uninspired. I really couldn't bring myself to post if I could other than "Who the fuck do you think you are, you thick twat?" at most contributors. Which kinda got me thinking when I read through this lot.

    Maybe we need our own poll. Thickest contributor...can't even decide myself...Brown, Bunting,Bindel Bidisha, Toynbee...there's so many to choose from.
    Contributor who's most 'up themself' ...hmmmm?...Brown, Bunting,Bindel, Bidisha, Toynbee...there's so many to choose from. There's a pattern emerging here.

    None of them really worth reading other than the entertainment value in following the thread. Why do they pay the useless tossers so much? Between them, Bunting and Toynbee earn more than the GDP of Costa Rica. (just thought I'd throw in a specious, unsupported assertion to help make my point...it's how you get to the top in blogging)

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  58. Kief Richard...

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  59. Hey monkeyfish, thought you'd gone underground. I agree. 1) the content has always been very variable, but that's no excuse
    2) my responses seem to get more along the lines of "sort it out you gargantuan fuckwit", as you say
    3) the moderators delete the most bizarre posts, which leads me to conclude that far from being junior Guardian interns, subs and arbiters of taste and reason, but without any basis in fact what ever, a gang of Venezualan attack baboons trained personally in a secret Polynesian camp by Bidisha.

    Thickest / Worst Contributor - good idea
    - Montana, can we get this one rolling please ? Clearly, it would call for evidence from the original CIF column, and an explanation,which I'm sure anyone here would be more than happy to provide !

    Anyways matey, been ok, managed to hang on to me new job since Jan after three months of aimless vodka-bothering and winter despair (which was nice).

    How's tricks ?

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  60. *Sigh* I've really lived a sheltered and un-fun life, haven't I? Sometimes I really do wish I could put my middle-aged brain in my 20 yr old body so that I could have been less of a prig.

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  61. Hi Bitterweed, good to see you, mate. My Friday nights aren't the same without a bit of youtube-duelling (-; Impressed that you've held the job down for 3 months. I'd be really impressed if you went in and did a full shift today though judging by the times of your posts on here.

    @olching - posed you a question over at the phonebooth...

    Evening monkeyfish, got your Wembley ticket sorted?

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  62. "a gang of Venezualan attack baboons trained personally in a secret Polynesian camp by Bidisha."

    Best description i have seen yet.

    "Thickest / Worst Contributor - good idea"

    Now, you're really asking two questions here, thick and worst are two different ballparks, though obviously heavily intertwined. For example, for me - Bindel is the thickest, but Bidisha is the worst.

    Having read the infamous Barry George piece, it would take something monumentally stupid to dislodge Julie from this special place in my heart, because that article just broke all known boundaries of idiocy. But 'worst' is a different matter.

    Bidisha is the 'worst' because she's just so childish, it is just common room angst dressed up in the most dismally Guardian'esque persona imaginable - an Asian, mono-named lesbian feminist with an asexual haircut. Either that or she is indeed Sacha Baron Cohen's new ruse. Her Lord of the Rings - "flaming vagina" comment was the starting point, and from then its just been downhill (in an Escher sort of way where it seems it shouldnt be able to sink any further). Finally, she called married women, "prostitutes", and casually told us that DV is the biggest killer of women in Britain - this might go down as CiF Porky of the Decade. She also once used the notorious "batphone" to warn PrimeRib that i was posting on her article - she gave me the deeply hurtful name of "the joker", as memory serves.

    Her contributions are astoundingly bad, but they are so bad that they are amusing - the whole CiF community swarms in for the fun. Should that exclude her from the award? Should i rethink? I dont think so - this strange reaction owes more to the good nature of the CiF mob than it does to her ability, so no, she is staying for me - "Worst CiF contributor".


    Am i wrong?

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  63. Can i make some more suggestions regarding worst contributor?

    Firstly i think its unfair to put Polly in there, i really do, even though she has been writing the same "last chance for NewLab" article for about a year now.

    I agree on all the others, superb selection, but can i suggest a few additions?

    Philippe Legrain - priest of neolib filth.

    Theo "the baby jesus" Hobson - surely?

    Julie Burchill?

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  64. Agreed, Jay, I wouldn't have Toynbee on there even though one of our fallen comrades described her recently as "the sacred cow of the pontificariat". If nothing else, she's good at flushing out the right-wing arsewipes.

    I'd like to put a big shout in for Inayat personally, almost entirely because of his blog last year calling for the abolition of Inheritance Tax. Smug middle class tosser uses the cover of the Left when it suits his identity politics agenda to do so and then spits on the idea of social justice if it's threatening to cost him a bit of money.

    In a way, he sums up all that's wrong with the Guardian/Islington liberal.

    Tatchell's always good for a laugh too. His Cornish Liberation Front piece (sorry Montana and Bitterweed) was one of the funniest things I've seen on here, right up there with Mike Read, and his constant interventions below the line added to the mirth.

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  65. LOL!! The tatchell cornish liberation thread is an all time comic great!!


    "the sacred cow of the pontificariat" -

    magnificent



    Inayats a good shout too, though he seems one of the few ATLs who bothers responding to my posts, so i have a small soft spot for the sneery little chap, and he recently stabbed a man 7 times, so dont anger him.

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  66. Not sure not read all of them!

    Do carry on if it amuses, not the sort of game I can be bothered playing!

    Not being po faced just can't summon up the energy somehow.

    Guess I'm just tired - long day and all that!

    Or maybe I've never quite liberated myself from my 50's upbringing - as in 'don't mock the afflicted' you know?

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  67. Hi annetan - agreed that it's a bit childish but not sure its "mocking the afflicted" so much as "afflicting the comfortable" though.

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  68. Kind of agree with Annetan myself. Toynbee really shouldn't be anywhere near that list. She offers standard newspaper commentary regardless of the slant.

    If we were to nominate the worst contributors, they'd have to be one-off ones (or close to one-offs) who presented a pile of faeces and (hardly ever) never returned (the guy who wanted smoking banned in private homes, Alan Dershowitz, the British Jew who told us all how anti-Semitic we are and how she's buggering off to NYC, ya? etc...).

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  69. Oliver Kamm has to get as medal, I think silver but I'd settle for bronze.

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  70. I can settle for Kamm...

    Welcome Lester!

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  71. Martin Jacques on Ian Wright, Match of the Day was hilarious. Astonishing.

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  72. This is a very tough call. I'll have to think very deeply about it. Consistent mediocrity and stupidity should be rewarded, but just as no-hopers like Everton can make the final (take that, monkeyfish!), so can the occasional bolt from the blue strike gold. (Note the very Guardianesque mixed metaphors here.) Occasionally an article stands out by virtue of its gob-smacking weirdness, and the disbelief that it elicits in innocent bystanders.

    I'm thinking, of course, of the wonderfully awful Obama piece "Fear and loving" by Anna Shapiro.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/08/barackobama-obama-administration

    And a recent rather queer newcomer, Silvia Posocco, also caught my eye with the densely packed post-modernist gobbledygook "Cool, queer white glasses". One to watch, I feel.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/apr/15/sexual-identity

    Anyway, my idea (already touched upon, I see) is a category for "Worst article Ever" which must not include the big guns who can do this sort of thing in their sleep (and frequently do). Let's honour some of the lesser known mirth-makers who somehow land a lucky punch with a piece of mad genius. I'll kick off the nominations with the two aforementioned, but there must be loads of others. Its always a pleasure to go back to such articles, if only to reassure oneself that it really happened and the whole thing wasn't imagined. Also looking forward to reading some classics that I missed first time around. (Remember links!)

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  73. Quiz question for you kids (olching, you'll have to sit this one out!):

    Which CiF fixture posted, inter alia, the following on today's Lerman blog - "thanks for such a churlish and useless response, rich with facetious remarks"; "what a bunch of fools there are on CiF"; "no offence but you appear to have learning difficulties"?

    They're still there 8/9 hours later.

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  74. Hej olching as we say in these here parts...

    Nice to see you plying your intelligent trade on another site...

    ...half time at Arsenal v liverpool...it's all going perfectly so far

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  75. Hank

    Matt Seaton?

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  76. Hej back Lester. CiF is crawling with unbearable trolls and junk, so I'm on 'sabbatical'. Feel free to stick around.

    Scherfig: I'll have to nominate Chris Hallam's 'Smoke out' thread. It's a shame his picture isn't still up on the article (just checked...couldn't remember his name), because it adds to the ambiance.

    Ed Husain's Poles are the new Muslims (or was it the other way around?) was pretty shite as well. I love Madpole's comment half way down ("Wow what is this actually article about?"); summed it up beautifully.

    God, there were so many....but those are my two nominations.

    Lester: 1:1! Sorry to do this to do this to you mate... ;0)

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  77. Lester, good to see you here. Your answer was entertaining but ultimately unsuccessful. Much like your team (-;

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  78. Oops, curse of the commentator. Cracking goal from Arshavin. All gone quiet over in Bitterweed's corner...

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  79. Hank - Does she like ballroom dancing? What's my prize?

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  80. Blinkin heck! I only went off for a week and all hell's gone off... You just can't be trusted to be left on your own can you!
    It's taken me ages to read this site and the phonebooth and now I'm a wee bit scared to venture on to cif...Need a bit of dutch courage first... commonly known as a spliff and a G+T...
    ps Wildhack... you don't drink alone? fool... best way to drink!

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  81. There ought to be some sort of style rule at the Graun that any time they're doing a live feed of a match involving Liverpool, the accompanying photo must be of Fernando Torres. In fact, FT is so pretty, they should just bung up a nice piccie of him no matter who's playing.

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  82. Sorry folks, but fuck me, put me on the list...I've died of a heart attack...

    4 goals from the little Russian...4 from the others...I need CiF to calm down...

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  83. Cracking game, Lester, Arshavin and Walcott were immense.

    Best goal of the night?

    Cov's 94th min penalty equaliser v Barnsley.

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  84. I wanted a 5th (or rather 9th)...!

    Hank, thought you might have enjoyed Coventry's goal...

    I feel bad, though, for giving Brighton an escape route...

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  85. Welcome back, kiz. Good holiday?

    We've made a few changes while you've been away...)-:

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  86. "I'll kick off the nominations with the two aforementioned, but there must be loads of others."Sea kittens!

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  87. Welcome back, Kiz! Most of my family are tee-total or near to it (both my parents' surnames are Irish - where we went wrong, I'll never know) - not particularly for moral reasons that I'm aware of - certainly never got any lecturing about the demon rum or anything - but we're just not big drinkers. Somewhere along the line, I was given the notion that drinking was a social activity and doing it alone was somehow 'wrong'. I don't really believe that - but I still feel weird about doing it.

    So everyone's unhappy with the match result...

    ReplyDelete
  88. Yeh big result for Brighton, olching. Nothing against them but I'd like to see Crewe stay up. Had a couple of fun days out at Gresty Road. All glamour. Sure I saw brusselsexpat on the home terrace one time.

    ReplyDelete
  89. Hank - is the frownie face for something here or for all the craziness at CiF?

    ReplyDelete
  90. @Montana - a Crackerjack pencil is in the post! And a Fernando Torres key ring. You binned Kevin Davies off now then?

    ReplyDelete
  91. Arshavin is the best buy since Henry...

    ...still, I feel a bit like Gil Scott Heron and the drugs...you know you should give it up but ahhhhhh...

    ...Arshivins second Hank, it's got to be...

    ...has Brighton sigend Nicola Thomsan yet?

    ReplyDelete
  92. It's the craziness of CiF, Montana, nothing but fun over here (-:

    (Above post - your prize for spotting the untouchable poster...)

    ReplyDelete
  93. Right then, which team from Liverpool will be taking home a trophy this season? And who will be crying all the way home?

    ReplyDelete
  94. olching, ally (link please?), thx for the suggestions. Can't wait to read them, but will save for tomorrow.

    ReplyDelete
  95. Hank - Oh no. Kev's still right up there. As are about half the Trotters, actually. They might be mediocre at the actual game, but they make up for it in shaggability. It's just that Torres is so pretty he's on a different plateau, altogether. Note: I wouldn't shag him - even if someone gave him a drug that made him think I was the most beautiful woman on the planet, so I didn't have to feel self-conscious about my middle-aged body. My appreciation for Torres is much like one appreciates the beauty of a classical sculpture. I'd shag Davies senseless.

    ReplyDelete
  96. "I'd shag Davies senseless" - that wouldn't take long...

    ReplyDelete
  97. Scherfig, I've included links in the post above (underlined titles). The Hallam article was simply odious, but I must say - with hindsight - Husain's article is one of the most absurd things I've read on CiF. Lacks a thesis, coherence, anything; it's just a series of unconnected cliches. The comments that follow are savage.

    Hank, same here re Crewe; I've got a real soft spot for them and for some reason like their ground (some of the best pasties I've tried...). Still hoping Swine-town will drop...

    By the way, Montana, we haven't added LennyStone who has a long-time contributor but sadly passed away last year, too. It's a tragedy that I/we forget people like him, whereas bastards like Toube and JeremyHP are remembered (because they're such bastards).

    ReplyDelete
  98. BTW - going waay back up thread - is it just me or are 'Guerning Fuckpig' and 'Venezuelan Attack Baboons' both good names for a band?

    ReplyDelete
  99. Oi, Scorpio! Watch what you say about my Kev!

    ReplyDelete
  100. scherfig:

    Sea Kittens!In other business, if you want a flavour of just how wonderfully diverse the internetz can be, read Melissa McEwan's piece today and the comments below, and then read the comments on her own blog.

    Takes all sorts, I suppose.

    ReplyDelete
  101. I've been avoiding MMcE's thread, Ally. She's writes like she's still a uni student writing for the student paper.

    ReplyDelete
  102. I've been avoiding MMcE's thread, Ally. She's writes like she's still a uni student writing for the student paper.--

    In 1985.

    It's been a little bit 'fish in a barrel' truth be told. Worth reading just for the apoplectic explosion from the normally impeccably liberal, decent and polite GreenLake.

    ReplyDelete
  103. Budget day tomorrow, folks, and there's sure to be lots of informed debate on CiF. Anyone fancy doing me a favour and dropping this link in (it's about failed tax-avoidance schemes in the US and very funny)?

    http://digg.com/d1om4w

    ReplyDelete
  104. Oh, just read the McEwan thread. This comment...

    "I've given you a gold star, that's the Tanya Gold star for crapicity."

    Brilliant.

    ReplyDelete
  105. Oh what a fucking surprise. Nine of the eleven Pakistani students arrested have been released without charge but are being deported. If they were plotting as alleged, put the behind bars. If not, well, cheers for fucking up their lives.

    ReplyDelete
  106. Welcome back Kiz, you've missed all sorts of action. Not in the fun sense, like the good old days, but in the new CiF sense - the most action you can expect is for an old stalwart to find themselves banned.

    ReplyDelete
  107. Bindel Alert!!!!!

    Bindel talking about BoJo - my god i'm excited. Come on down folks.

    ReplyDelete
  108. Saw it Jay and couldn't bring myself to engage!

    ReplyDelete
  109. I wouldn bother Annetan, like most of CIF these days, its nothing new, the only actual new material and ideas comes from below the line, and even thats rare.

    ReplyDelete
  110. Brian Whitaker22 April, 2009 10:43

    scherfig:

    As I said, "Regardless of the opinions commenters may hold, we don't want personal abuse in the threads."

    We try to prevent it. The fact that the mods may not always spot it and delete it is another matter, but that doesn't legitimise personal abuse.

    ReplyDelete
  111. Point taken, Brian. I also strongly believe that there is no place for personal abuse and realize the difficulties involved in policing this. However, the inconsistency of the moderation is still worrying (mentioning no names here).

    btw I cannot in all conscience put your name forward for "worst article ever". Sorry. Perhaps you should try harder. :o)

    ReplyDelete
  112. Jay, check out the phonebooth.

    ReplyDelete
  113. I'm going to keep calm.... deep breaths... deep breaths....

    ReplyDelete
  114. Cone ON Portsmouth !
    (Sob...)

    ReplyDelete
  115. Hi & Salaam BrianW

    Isn't time for an amnesty for the unfairly banned posters!? :-)

    I do not understand why CIF mods/editors are so sensitive over my name or my banning (the banning was organized and orchestrated by the usual mob including David Toube & PetraMB (CIF contibutors) as soon as I started contributing and not while I was posting comments).

    Whenever someone mentions Soraya Tehrani/Tehrankid77 (a banned poster) their posts get removed almost immediately but when others mention other banned posters their posts remain, why is there so much sensitivity & hypocrisy when it comes to an Iranian poster? An honest respond will be very much appreciated.

    btw: I had the understanding from CIF staff and editor MattS that because they decided to ban me over my very-old-and not-that-offensive posts (regrettably, perhaps one of them was), I get automatically banned from contributing articles, but I have noticed this is not the case for some other banned posters who are also contributors (no name mentioned), pls explain this hypocrisy too if you can.


    ta!
    TK77

    p.s I hope other posters here do not mind me leaving this post for BrianW as I am unable to put this question to him on CIF.
    ~~

    Hi olching! long story! Hope is well with you x

    ReplyDelete
  116. How can I edit/correct my post here? Is it allowed?
    .

    ReplyDelete
  117. Hi Tehrankid, you're welcome here. Unfortunately you cannot amend posts. The only way is to insert correction later or repost it (and delete the previous one).

    When you have time, do tell me the story.

    ReplyDelete
  118. Copy your whole post, delete it, paste back into comment box and edit.

    ReplyDelete
  119. Hi, TK77. This is an open forum - no deletions. Post here if you want. I look forward to it.

    ReplyDelete
  120. oh, the poll doesn't let me vote for 'The Banned and The Dead' - which, being a bookophile, is the best title eva - so, this is an off-margin vote for 'The Banned and The Dead'. cheers.

    ReplyDelete
  121. Jay what did you say that got you deleted?

    ReplyDelete
  122. Just found this blog. Nice to see some of the best of the CiF posters here (Amnnetan, Olching, HankS being some favorites of mine). Lots of interesting things to pick up on but my vote for worst above the line person might be Harry Phibbs, who has nothing to say in my view and any time they put up Eammonn Butler of the Adam Smith Institute or Ruth Lea I cringe.

    Anyway, I'm off CiF at the moment - far too right-wing for me and far too often going over the same old arguments.

    ReplyDelete
  123. Oh by the way, Peter in the above post is PeterGuillam in cifland

    ReplyDelete
  124. Hi Peter, nice to see you and welcome. I agree that CiF has shifted quite noticeably to the right; perhaps, sadly, an indication of society in general.

    Yes, Phibbs is as vacuous as it gets, though Lester named Oliver Kamm earlier, which is a very good nomination.

    ReplyDelete
  125. Hi Olching, good to see you too. It was Lester who put me on to this blog BTW. Yes, Kamm is a good nomination but not on CiF so often now thank god. Anyway, it's the below the line posters who really irritate me. Nominations for the worst there, from a long, long list would be zdenkev, MoveanyMountain and, the winner by a short head, Waltz - the latter seeming to epitomise narrow, spiteful vindicativeness. These posters irritate it me far more than the verpresent idiots like earlofsuave or presidentD in that they are clearly not stupid in a functional sense, but woefully misuse their intelligence. But beyond these prolific posters there just seem to be an endless parade of occasional, low-grade nasties.

    ReplyDelete
  126. Annetan - nothing out the ordinary, but neither worth repeating, i cant even remember them exactly, my usual patter but certainly no abuse and nothing that wasnt concerned with domestic violence. The modding on that thread is just crazy. I cant recall such an overt display of partisan modding, ever.

    Kamm is completely revolting. I saw him at a debate once at PressTv, discussing Islam, now i am not a major fan of Islam but that little man is certainly the most repulsive i have ever seen in the flesh. For anyone who loathes him now, please go and see him debate, you will discover levels of hatred you never knew you had. Truly horrendous man.

    ReplyDelete
  127. I think as well, Annetan and Kiz - i have discovered the basis of ultimas latest rants and lunarcy - she thinks the abuse cath Elliott quoted on her blog was from me.

    - Caths article listing the abuse was partly directed at me because it was a response to my claim that cif wasnt abusive, ultima obviously misunderstood because it was only a few days later she said something about me "terribly abusing" Cath, she told you two off for joining in and giggling like girls, i presume she meant kiz's light hearted involvement in that whole big row thing (and i guess with you annetan she just made a mistake, as per usual). Also, in her recent smear, she claims to have seen my "flagged comments" - she is clearly thinking of the ones cath quotes which were indeed deleted.

    Im 99% this is correct, it explains these 3 various bizarre attacks of hers. I thought my tolerance for that woman hit rock bottom after her smear campaign a few months back, but this really is a new level.

    Hi Peter - as i remember we didnt always see eye to eye but welcome aboard.

    ReplyDelete
  128. Peter, yes, those three do spring to mind; and you're right: They are (fairly) intelligently nasty, which is far more worrying than vegetables such as EoS, StrifeZ (is he still around?) or Metatarsal.

    And to be sure: They are just nasty. I mean, WheatFromChaff (why hasn't he turned up here yet), PatDavers or even EvilTory are right-wing, but not nasty (a couple of those are in fact really good value!). Waltz, MaM, Zdenek and a few other are just vile.

    Read Inayat's article on the Pakistani students to witness yet again the bile Waltz and her entourage spew out on CiF.

    Jay, I've seen Oliver Kamm on Newsnight, which was one of the most laughable performances I've seen. The guy's a cretin.

    ReplyDelete
  129. WheatfromChaffs writes some good stuff, StrifeZ is just a loon.

    Kamm is so vile he's like a cartoon character. Anyone remember his CIF article where he got torn to pieces without about 1000 comments? It was one of those major cif articles where everyone gets involved, all the regulars, loads of one post wonders, loads of random yanks, it was a classic brawl -

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/jun/17/georgebush.terrorism

    ReplyDelete
  130. Hi PeterG and welcome to the site. Haven't seen much of you on CiF lately so guessed you'd succumbed to the same affliction as olching - nausea at the increasingly right-wing stench from beneath the line.

    Polly could kickstart the economy singlehanded selling her branded nosepegs to authentic Guardian readers of the opinions their site now hosts.

    But then where's the incentive for any thrusting entrepreneur with a good idea, plenty of drive and the willingness to put their Tuscan homes on the line now that the politics of envy has resurfaced in the shape of this socialistic 50% tax rate...(cont'd p.94 of Iain Dale's blog)

    ReplyDelete
  131. Hi Jay - you are right we have clashed in the distant past but in a 'good' way I think (hope!) though I can't recall the details now.

    I agree, Olching, about there being some good value rightwingers including those you name (I'd add federalexpress and, sometimes, fridah). What pisses me off is the people who turn up for a few days, spray around comments along the lines of 'hmm, so you're in favour of Stalin's Russia/North Korea/Pol Pot then' and think they've said something dazzlingly insightful and original. The problem isn't so much that I find them boring as that I bore myself when I reply to them. And when you start to be boring even to yourself .... it's time to take a break.

    Anyway, CiF has never quite recovered from the clunky new interface in my opinion, plus the moderation now is awful. It never used to bother me - I had the odd comment deleted and often I deserved it for being abusive in the heat of the moment (sometimes pleased to see my more, ahem, self-medicated comments gone the next morning), other times it seemed a bit unfair but no big deal. But now the moderation seems quite random and I have posts pulled which are innocuous by any standards (and see others having the same experience). Yet when this is raised with Matt Seaton (who I think has been a disaster) he completely fails to engage with it and dismisses it. Yet I am sure it alienating core posters. Still, I don't think they really care about core posters: it is presumably just about getting a certain number of hits in order to sell the now omnipresent ads.

    ReplyDelete
  132. @Brian Whittaker - genuine question for you, and you can choose not to reply given that I'm now persona non grata with you and yours - do the mods actually monitor the fora or do they simply respond to reports of abuse?

    And, a second question if I may, is there a sliding scale of infractions? Is personal abuse directed at an ATL writer regarded as more heinous a crime than personal abuse against a fellow pleb? Is hate speech seen as less serious an offence than personal abuse? Is trolling simply a minor misdemeanour?

    I'm sure a lot of us on here would like answers to these questions as it seems that your modding ("untrusting") policy is spectacularly misfiring if the Islamophobes and BNP sympathisers are allowed to get away with posting their crap time and time again while those who take issue with them, abusively at times (I'll concede), get pre-modded and/or banned.

    ReplyDelete
  133. Ah Hank, I'm sorry you've been banned. And I've just realised that many of the posters alienated by CiF (you, me, Olching) are also the smokers. It's a conspiracy, surely (draws deeply on tab ...).

    Olching, Jay - you've reminded me of StifeZ just when I thought I had forgotten.

    ReplyDelete
  134. By the way, what's this phone box blog? Any way I can get access?

    ReplyDelete
  135. " I mean, WheatFromChaff (why hasn't he turned up here yet), PatDavers or even EvilTory are right-wing, but not nasty (a couple of those are in fact really good value!)."

    Hi Olching,

    I reckon one backhanded compliment deserves another ;-)

    I'm not posting much at the mo as I'm at the in-laws', out in that neo-liberal paradise that is Hungary.

    Weird goings on at CiF indeed. Woolly banned eh? Although I don't really approve of bannings I reckon he must have had a bit of a death wish CiF-wise the way he carried on sometimes.

    Anyway, at the end of the day though CiF is just a load of folk on the internet talking about stuff and a sense of persepective is useful here.

    Right. I'm noff for a pre-prandial palinka, or mabe even an unicum (I haven't made my mind up yet).

    Egeszsegedre!
    PatD

    ReplyDelete
  136. Peter - yes i dont think we ever became "uncivil", to use the great Andrew Browns phrase.

    I dont know if you saw it Peter but Seaton came onto the boards a few months back responded to posts about modding by saying the subject "bored" him - really did sum up Cifs attitude to modding and dialogue perfectly.

    I had a very lengthy exchange with a staff member on email, about modding, perhaps i should post it - he does actually give quite good answers and i think it explains quite a lot of FAQs on modding.

    ReplyDelete
  137. Ah, you see, I knew PatDavers was watching (and I can feel the eyes of Wheatie upon us)...glad to pay a compliment ;0)

    Enjoy the Palinka; I quite like it, but Unicum...? Brrr....

    Peter, you have to email MontanaWildhack (click on her profile above and find the email address there) about the 'phonebooth'. She holds the key, so email her.

    And yes, it must be an anti-smoker conspiracy. They also don't commission Neil Clark's articles anymore, and he's a smoker, too.

    ReplyDelete
  138. @Peter and olching - Yeh, I reckon it's an anti-smoker conspiracy too. Why couldn't they show a little patience? We'll all be dead soon.

    On the subject of BTL posters, there's a new kid on the block, FuriusCamillus, whose staking a claim for most obnoxious. Worriedblueeyes is a hardy perennial, and I agree, and have said so on here before, that both Wheatie and EvilTory would be most welcome. Always happy to debate with them. Or I was )-:

    @Jay - you and Ultima eh? Stop fighting it, you know you want to. I'd be quite tempted if I were you to report her post on the "What do you want to talk about?" thread for abuse. Much good it will do, I guess.

    ReplyDelete
  139. Jay, yes I did see that Seaton remark about being bored by discussions of moderation, and it infuriated me at the time. It's always going to be tricky, of course, but that doesn't mean that they can just bin any discussion of it so dismissively.

    Olching - thanks for info re phonebox. On the anti-smoker 'conspiracy' it occurs to me that WML is very much anti-smoking and so the theory falls to the ground there ....

    Well I'm off now.

    ReplyDelete
  140. Easy, hank. The jay/ultima scenario is touchy - see my comment in the phonebooth and check out Mr Reilly's response. WAAAAAAAAH!

    ReplyDelete
  141. He's like a lovestruck adolescent expressing his love by pulling the pigtails of his beloved, scherfig.

    ReplyDelete
  142. Can you blame Jay when ultima says such wonderfully weird things as "Only cheap people enjoy verbal violence"?

    Apologies but keeping anon but a) I'm not a regular Cif poster so not deleted so far & b) I'm a smoker ...

    ReplyDelete
  143. Careful now, hank, if jay gets hold of you in the playground tomorrow, you'll be sorry!

    ReplyDelete
  144. Hank - i occasionally feel tempted to report abuse with ultima, and she is the only poster where it ever even crosses my mind, but have so far managed to stop myself ever doing it even with her. I cant stand the thought of breaking a principle for someone like ultima. I get so many posts deleted myself, and moan about it so much, i just cant bring myself to ever report posts.

    Peter - agreed, modding is a tricky business, but the sneery dismissal really just didnt come over well. I think Matt could work on his presentation a bit.

    I would like Scherfig banned from the entire world wide web, not just here, for his comment in the phone box. Truly, truly scandalous...

    ReplyDelete
  145. Jay, I'll take one for the team. Since I have no principles and am going to be world-wide banned anyway, I'll take her with me. (Imagine Slim Pickens whoopin' it up as he rides the A-bomb to oblivion.)

    ReplyDelete
  146. "He's like a lovestruck adolescent expressing his love by pulling the pigtails of his beloved, scherfig."

    Oh god, others are joining in now.. Scherfig!!

    Kizbot? Shoo these mongrels away...


    "Only cheap people enjoy verbal violence"
    - classic Ultima...

    ReplyDelete
  147. Hermine is still alive and kicking. Glad to see you all here. Salaaaaam TK!!!!

    ReplyDelete
  148. Sorry, jay, but hey, don't shoot the messenger!

    ReplyDelete
  149. @olching - just read the Inayat post in its entirety (or the modded version anyway). Your post at 12.36 was a belter, and the whole team (daniel17, MartyninEurope, BB, SameTurn, Orthus when he came off the bench) played a blinder.

    Waltz got a right kicking there. Quite heartening to see that there are still some out there prepared to stand up to the neo-liberal war on decency.

    @Jay - on reporting abuse. Yeh, I never used to do it either. My view was always that if you could dish it out then you should be able to take it. In the dying days of my time in pre-mod, when I couldn't get a post published for hours at a time, I would amuse myself by reporting posters who were abusive of others or of the "TALK POLICY" (whatever it happened to be that week) and if I had been able to report abuse this week, I'd have reported just about everything Waltz said on the Lerman thread yesterday.

    ReplyDelete
  150. Jay, I too have always suspected that if you and Ultima were ever to meet, it would result in a steamy night of hot sex.

    Hermine: Hello there! What happened? Why were you killed off?

    This place is turning into a hilarious refuge/bar/tea house.

    Peter, forgot about WML being anti-smoking; but in general it's safe to say that smoking is banned at CiF Central. Here, we are free to smoke....''''aaaaahhhh...

    Hank, I've seen him (FuriusC), too. Not impressed.

    ReplyDelete
  151. Thanks, Hank; it was a team effort and I feel it was a comfortable victory...

    ReplyDelete
  152. The thing about BB is, she's the solid dependable defensive midfielder. She's like a Claude Makelele, Patrick Vieira, Danny Murphy style player.

    That could be another thread. What kind of player would each Ciffer be?

    EarlOfSuave would be Dennis Wise: An annoying little cunt.

    ReplyDelete
  153. Danny Murphy?!

    Waltz would be Becks - only comfortable on the right-wing, vastly overrated and lives with a woman of sorts (Annetan's gonna hate this turn of events, sorry Anne(-:)

    Start it as a new thread in the phonebooth, otherwise I can see Messrs Carter Ruck might get interested.

    ReplyDelete
  154. Hank

    I'd say Vinnie Jones was a closer fit, aggressive, mindless and preferred to play the man rather than the ball...

    ReplyDelete
  155. Oh btw, re The Roll of Honour, parallax mentioned above that as a bookophile they'd prefer the Banned and the Dead.

    Well, as a bibliophile (ahem, I've got a library card) a cinephile, and someone who owes some of his happiest memories to Brian Clough, I'd vote for The Banned United.

    But I'd accept any of the above as long as it's not The Nevermores. Queen, olching? Queen?! I'd rather listen to Terry Hall talking me through his teenage holidays than listen to anything by Queen.

    ReplyDelete
  156. Nah, sorry Lester, Waltz isn't mindless or stupid (so maybe my Becks suggestion is misplaced!). She's very adroit at hitting all the right notes for the Mail/Express crowd who pile on to Cif for god knows what reason.

    And on that point, there's a blog tonight on CiF about a black poet laureate. This is the sort of thing that drives me mad about the Graun, the affirmative action, identity politics bollix. But what bugs me as much is the fact that there are so many right-wingers who jump right in with their bilious crap.

    Why the hell do people who are so antipathetic to the Guardian's ideals troll CiF so doggedly? I hate pretty much everything the Mail stands for so I've never bothered to sign up to their site. Why do these wankers choose to get so outraged by CiF so often? And why does Seaton choose to host their prejudices? Other than the money of course.

    It gets more nauseating by the day. How long do you reckon it will be before Matt is poached by the Telegraph to revamp their website and boost their ad revenues?

    ReplyDelete
  157. Let's not forget freewoman when we talk of lovable BTL posters. Beneath the facade of "feminism", concern for women, (and frequent psychobabble often linked to obscure research on the hippocampus) lies a very poorly concealed little Englander with a burning hatred of Islam, the working class, sex, large families (immigrants mostly, doncha know) .... the list goes on.

    In her defence, I would say that she might well be quite mad. Putting "rape" notes on men's cars was a weird suggestion but what about this one to combat piracy:
    "The mind boggles but I can imagine the usefulness of something soapy that would make it impossible for attackers to keep their feet in their boat. I can also imagine the usefulness of something that glows in the dark. Marking attacking boats so they could be sorted from any ordinary vessel. If it glows in the dark sink it."

    I'd feel sorry for her if she wasn't so fucking hateful towards others. And I've never seen any of her posts deleted.

    ReplyDelete
  158. Cheers Olching. For what it's worth I usually enjoyed reading your posts and those of others such as PeterG and Questionnaire (where he?) as they tended at least to be erudite and thought provoking and showed a certain understanding of the world (insofar as it is possible for those on the left!) and to an extent I can see why you are rather down on some of the other "right wing" posters on CiF (although I wouldn't be quite as critical as you lefties are). The dominant political philosophy of the world in general and CiF in particular is of course liberalism (whether in it be in its so-called "left" and "right" wing variants) and it was interesting for me to discover that critiques of the prevailing orthodoxy from the collectivist left bore remarkable similarities to those from the Burkean right (where I would place myself). Is there a new political realignment in the offing, or are the differences still be too great to overcome? Who knows?

    More palinka!

    ReplyDelete
  159. Last minute suggestions for the the roll of honour name:
    The Bombed?
    The Catch 22'd?

    ReplyDelete
  160. Yes, Hank, Queen. You got a problem with that? ;0)

    Bitterweed and Montana, by the way, agree with me. A grrreat band. I'll send you a 'reading(listening) list' of songs you've never heard, but (unless you hate music) will like. Watch this space.

    Isn't Waltz simply Paolo di Canio or Sinisa Mihajlovich?

    Lester, I thought for a second you meant Hank was Vinnie J...........

    Hi Pat, there is of course that critique too (liberalism) and I agree questionnaire is most exquisite in his criticisms. I haven't seen him for a while on CiF, which is a mighty shame, though I did see him post a couple of times on Neil Clark's blog.

    ReplyDelete
  161. Hank

    It's weird, but I think a lot of them do it because reducing everything down to intensely simplistic terms makes them feel like they have a position, but more importantly it makes them feel comfortable...so, the any regulation equals Stalinist totalitarianism reduction is comforting to them because they get to articulate some of the mantras...and repeating the mantras is confirming and comforting...

    ...there's never any intention to explore issues, but instead find a platform where the repetition of mantras is reassuring...

    I'm not referring to you Pat, nor others who try to engage.

    Hi Peter

    Olching

    I posted a long post about your ideas on Dawkinsian atheism but it got chewed up in the system...too late now but I must bring it up again sometime...

    ReplyDelete
  162. Na..not Hank, he's more of a Arshivin, a few touches but all spot on...

    ...completely agree that CiF is thinner without questionnaire

    ReplyDelete
  163. @PatDavers - "...critiques of the prevailing orthodoxy from the collectivist left bore remarkable similarities to those from the Burkean right...

    More palinka!"

    Hmm, I'd say you've had quite enough palinka already, Pat.

    Good point about questionnaire though. Not seen him/her around for a while. Good poster.

    ReplyDelete
  164. Jay - Do you think Ultima thought all those nasty posts Cath quoted were yours? How funny! That would explain a lot...That's really tickled me... You should be banned!
    As an aside folks... If I report someone (rare) I always tell them I've done it... usually accompanied with some sort of heavily abusive comment (the Lout has had a few)as I know that replies to removed comments will get deleted anyways... So I don't see why I shouldn't take the opportunity to be a bit choice in my own words...

    ReplyDelete
  165. Ooohhh.. And what player would I be..? and can I have a cricketer rather than a footballer, please?

    ReplyDelete
  166. @olching - so Montana backs you up on the Queen issue, does she? Hmm, she was waxing lyrical about Dancing in the City the other day.

    Dear oh dear.

    @Lester - Arshavin? You're too kind. I see myself as more of a Deschamps to olching's Cantona (-; I think M. Cantona was casting me as Vinnie on the basis of the time I spend up before the disciplinary committee.

    Incidentally, I'd like to hear who Montana sees as the Torres and Kevin Davies of Cif...

    ReplyDelete
  167. @kiz - you're Geoffrey Boycott. Steady, reliable, northern, likes a pie and a cup of tea.

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  168. Hank - you must really hate Queen. I mean, I could quite happily listen to Terry reading the phone book, but at least one of his youthful holidays (not sure he was quite a teenager) would be very unpleasant to hear about.

    Agree with you completely about the Mail-type trolls. One of the things that I've always liked about European newspapers over American papers is that you know going into it what their 'bent' is - so you can use that to filter the information. American newspapers all claim to be impartial reporters of the truth, when we all know that that's not true. What is especially troubling about it these days (and has been since at least the Reagan era), is that their editorials are usually supportive of liberal/progressive views, but the pieces that masquerade as unbiased reportage have a definite right-wing bias. The Columbia Journalism Review and Media Matters for America are both really good at pointing it out. But Joe Sixpack has heard Rush Limbaugh going on about the pinko journalists and he sees that the editorials are all pretty pinko sounding, so he buys into the notion that they're tools of this liberal elite that all the right-wing bobble heads are always on about.

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  169. NOOoo! Not Geoffrey.. He's a boring bastard! batting defensively with the same damned stroke for eons on end! And.... He's from yorkshire! You can't compare me to a tyke...
    Not havin it.. try again...

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  170. Not just Montana, Bitterweed, too...and Bitterweed has taste!

    Me as Cantona? You're joking. I was thinking more Trifon Ivanov (remember him? No resemblance whatsoever, I just want that emphasised) or Edmundo. Mind you, I could kung-fu kick MaM into touch.

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  171. Fair enough, kiz, David Lloyd aka Bumble. A Lancastrian, an entertainer, a bit mad, likes a cup of tea, and talks a bit of sense. Sometimes. If you're really patient and attentive (-:

    @montana - yeh, I do really hate Queen. Bloody awful limp-cock-rock. (You did say that nobody gets banned, didn't you?)

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  172. Hank - if it hadn't been for Queen, I'd have never survived adolescence. While some of you were drinking & lighting up spliffs to deal with the angst and raging hormones, I was dealing with it by blasting Queen in my headphones. If you can not get lost in the glories of "The Seven Seas of Rhye", if "Teo Torriatte" doesn't move you - you have no soul. Oddly, I was not one of those girls with misplaced affections for Freddie - I was convinced that Brian May was my soul mate. That said, I did end up dropping them fairly quickly once I started hearing stuff like the Ramones, the Specials, the Clash... Had kind of put Queen on a shelf in my mind until Olching & Bitterweed reminded me just how good they were on a music thread (was it in February, Olching?)

    Mmm. The Torres & Davies of CiF. That's gonna take some thinking... (Shall I pick an Elmander, too?)

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  173. Nobody gets banned, Hank. Not even for musical ignorance.

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  174. kiz - Ian Botham? Big hitter, savage bowler, liked a beer and a bit of a laugh, always in trouble, everybody liked him anyway.

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  175. Some of these comments are cracking me up a treat, cif really does cultivate a very fine level of banter. But some things are just too awful to bear repeating (but i will anyway) -

    "Jay, I too have always suspected that if you and Ultima were ever to meet, it would result in a steamy night of hot sex."

    I dont deserve these attacks on my sensibilities, the fleeting moment of imagery in my mind as i process the words is really more than i should have to put up with. I have no idea what ultima looks like, but these comments are quite chilling to the blood.

    Hank - "My view was always that if you could dish it out then you should be able to take it."

    Precisely, i'm no angel on CiF so cant really try to censor others.

    "This is the sort of thing that drives me mad about the Graun, the affirmative action, identity politics bollix."

    Agreed - if you want to turn people into foaming Mailers - the Graun is actually a really good place to send them, the innane identity drivel is just agonising, and i think it actually drives quite a lot of the right wingery on CiF - stupidity makes people angry.

    Scherfig - after your post on freewoman all is forgiven. I often feel she means well, but as you say, is a little off her rocker. The quote about boats is one of the funniest things i have read. Whats her other big thing, abortion? Isnt she a raging pro lifer?

    Kiz - she DEFINITELY thought those quotes were mine, as soon as i thought about it everything made sense. The tell tale bit (i am something of a poirot) was the talk of seeing my "flagged comments" and saying my filth was "on another level to personal abuse", and it just clicked. I would bet my mortgage on it (if i had one). Remember her comments about you and annetan? Something about you two joining in when i was horrifically abusing Cath - it all makes sense, im certain of it. Its a comic blunder, but so typically ultima. The idea that cif wouldnt have banned me if i had said all those things...

    You can be Phil Tufnell, Kiz - laid back, jovial, boozey and deceptively effective. Boycott is a good shout but a touch dreary for the tricksy Greek, i feel.

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  176. montana, drinking AND lighting up a spliff AND Seven Seas of Rhye might also have worked. A sort of broad-spectrum antibiotic for angst and hormones.

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  177. Botham... I've always had a soft spot for.. Tufnell? Hmmm?
    I was thinking along the affable lines of Graeme Fowler myself...

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  178. scherfig - well, we've already determined that I was way too 'good' for my own good back then. And nowadays, there's just no opportunity...

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  179. @Montana - ok, I'll give you Seven Seas of Rhye, maybe Fat Bottomed Girls but..now the Clash, that's a different story.

    And don't rely on Bitterweed as any sort of musical authority. He keeps on trying to twist my melon, man, with Neil Young whinefests on youtube. Should be banned tbh. Neil Young and Bitterweed. Let's put a bid in for Waltz, I bet she's got great taste in music. We Are The Champions, for instance...

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  180. Jay, you know I don't mean it, but the picture of Ignatius and Myrna just seemed to fit and I couldn't resist.:o) And it might encourage others to read "A Confederacy of Dunces" which would certainly help to put Cif into perspective. Oh, Fortuna!
    I also have it on reliable authority that much of the data used in the many recent lap-dancing articles was obtained by interviewing patrons of Lana Lee's French Quarter strip club, the "Night Of Joy"

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  181. Hank thanks for thinking of me! Its just that i don't understand what you are all talking about - but hey please talk about footie if you want to ! Just not my thing!

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  182. Scherfig - if your cruel mockery encouraged even one person to read Dunces i would be fully in favour. The book is in my top 3 all time books, and the funniest by 7 country miles.

    I just read that Erin Pizzeys dog was killed by militant fems, is this true? There really wouldnt be any torture so severe that i wouldnt gladly see it doled out to scum that kill animals, waterboarding would be the least of their worries if i had my way.

    I need to go to bed, this damn cifrefugee site means i now spend all day at work on cif and here, and now i've spent most of my bloody evening here too, this isnt healthy...

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  183. The thing about Queen, Hank, is that when they produced crap songs, they were incredibly crap (A Kind of Magic, Friends will be Friends etc...), and for some reason they were released as singles in the evil decade. But the majority of their songs were incredible, and sadly largely unknown, especially the 70s stuff (which is when they produced most music).

    Teo Torriatte is great, Montana, as is Millionaire's Waltz (suited to BruExpat or Herionegingold); Nevermore's immense (as is that whole album, Sheer Heart Attack), and how about Good Company or really late stuff from Innuendo (Bijou, These were the Days).

    Bizarrely, I listened to quite political music when growing up (quite different to Queen), but for some reason, there was always Queen to wow me with the diverseness and beauty of their music. I guess you can't really describe that connection you make in your youth with particular bands. It's just like Led Zep fans; I've never understood or liked Led Zep yet know people who loved them when growing up. I never 'got it' and suspect I never will.

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  184. Latest score: England 474 for 8 (Boycott 11 n.o.)

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  185. Ha ha, all eight wickets fallen to run outs, scherfig?

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  186. Only seven, hank. When the nightwatchman had to partner Boycott the next day, he threw himself onto his stumps.

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  187. Jay just replied to your comment amount Erin Pizzey's dog Iam afraid it might get deleted sohere it is
    "Jay as the owner of a rescue cat that was born on a rubbish tip. I'm tempted to agree.

    Anyone who kills an innocent animal because they disagree with the owner needs to be in Broadmore imho.

    Its ironic really. I'm not saying all radfems are like that but you cannot make a sensible case against any sort of violence if you do that.

    Its like right to lifers who murder abortion doctors.

    You can't campaign against violence by being violent.

    Makes you wonder why that wing of the feminist movement gained the ascendancy - or does it?

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  188. Save your imperialist nonsense for the Cultural Reeducation Tribunal, comrade olching(-;

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  189. Hi annetan, we've moved on from football to cricket and "popular" music now. It's all go.

    What thread are you and Jay on?

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  191. The reeducation programme has already started, Hank...

    By the way, have you seen that reptile topsecret posting on Inayat's thread? This is latest offering (justifying the arrests):

    "In my opinion, any threat needs arrests under the law. One day you may be thankful (though somehow I doubt it)."Haha! Fucking hilarious...'this will hurt me more than you'.

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  192. 70's rock - hard to beat Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers's first album.

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  193. We've been on Bindel's thread...
    And me and Jay have also been joshing on the 'tell us what you want to talk about as long as it's nothing to do with modding, pre-modding (apparently newspeaked as 'untrusted') or getting banned for no real reason' thread

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  194. 70s rock - Elvis C's My Aim is True or, for a country-rock classic, Gilded Palace of Sin by the Flying Burritos.

    Olching and kiz - I'll have a look tomorrow. Or skyplus it, or something. Just not the same when you can only press your nose against the window. And, no offence, kiz, but I did read your comments on the "talk about" thread and thought the stuff about "walking away whistling" was rubbing others' noses in it tbh.

    As I said, no offence, and I know I've only got myself to blame etc, but it's amazing how indignant people were a few days ago about this, and now well, it's a bit of a joke innit?!

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  195. Good call on the Burritos. My brother has just been on Mastermind - specialist subject Gram Parsons. Whatsisface (Humphreys?) the presenter had never heard of Parsons, and made a big point out of who the fuck was he? Small world, innit?

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  196. Oh and just to expand on my comment above, olching you've been a star. I wouldn't fancy Lord (flouncing off in a huff for 20 minutes) Summerisle or HermioneGingold (bring back Woolly/no, sorry, CiF's great) on my side in the trenches though.

    Liberals eh? Never found a fence they weren't happy to sit on.

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  197. Fan of Gram, scherfig? Along with Gilded Palace, he also made two very good solo albums and introduced Emmylou Harris to a grateful public.

    Return of the Grievous Angel is a helluva song.

    How did your brother get on?

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