18 December 2010


Always go to other people's funerals, otherwise they won't come to yours.
-Yogi Berra


  1. If that monkey doesn't make you go, "Awwwww!", it's because you have no heart.

  2. It made me go, "That's the most unconvincing wig I've seen in a long time."

  3. It looks like Donald Trump. That's a primate comb-over if ever I saw one. Ask it if, when it sees a stunning vista of unspoiled tropical rainforest, does it immediately want to build a golf course or condominium there?

  4. Best monkeys ever...

    Wish I was quicker on my feet with my phone-cam this morning as there were two foxes running around and playing in the snow in my garden like nutters. By the time I got organised they had disappeared again. Husband had put some food out for them now, so they might be back...

  5. ok - two no hearts, sounds like a bridge bid...

    am with you, montana! awwwwwwwwww....

  6. BB - and other dessert fans - there was:

    proper dessert - meringue millefeuille of citrus fruits
    'gourmandises' -
    - glass of pear granita
    - poppyseed icecream lollypop
    - apricot cornet
    - mini madeleines
    - mini doughnut with jam dip
    - chocolate sandwich
    - meringue dipsticks
    - little caramelly-nutty tart thingies
    - pine kernel biscuit arrangements
    - little bag of passion fruit chocolates
    - little bag of pate de fruits

    was like a child on christmas morning. it was a bit like that scene in jurassic park, where the kids are finishing off the melting desserts. except without a velociraptor turning up.

  7. i know i should just not bother clicking on the links for iddlebid's articles, but...

    have you seen today's effort?

    don't know whether to throw up or throw something.

  8. Haven't ventured there yet, Phil... will it spoil my day? :p

  9. well....the article could be read as a lighthearted commentary on men in power, but, inevitably given the previous, it isn't being...

  10. Chocolate sandwich??

    Has my 'just wrap a snickers in a slice of bread and nuke it for a minute!' approach to cooking dessert finally caught on?

    Next time, I'm writing that shit down....

  11. not quite, james, but that still sounds pretty appealing.

  12. It's not bad actually. Tastishly speaking anyway, visually, not so much....!!

  13. That monkey is much better looking than Donald Trump, Eddie. Is he looking for a mistressdo you think?

    We always thought the US administration had no real belief in human rights - now we know.

    Leaked dispatches reveal diplomats' disdain for Council of Europe's stance against extraditions to US and secret renditions

    In a confidential cable from the US embassy in Strasbourg, US consul general Vincent Carver criticised the Council of Europe, the most authoritative human-rights body for European countries, for its stance against extraditions to America, as well as secret renditions and prisons used to hold terrorist suspects.

  14. I'm wondering if Thought For The Day shouldn't be more correctly titled First Bit Of Shit That Comes Into My Head. Will this be an ongoing series solely by Biddy or will the non-events in heads of a whole range of Graun hacks be shared with us?

    MacShane's Thought For The Day: Fraud. Is it really a crime?

  15. eddie - she seems to have a series of these. and the prevailing approach seems to be 'serious subject X - is there any way to find a light-hearted approach to this?'

    clearly they got the idea from austin mitchell's 'amusing' take on the expenses scandal. you know, the one with the £70 kettle. the one that went really well...

  16. Toynbee's Thought For The Day: Did Pasquilino clean the guttering out in the villa and will Maria remember to have a selection of artisan cheeses stocked up for us when we arrive for the New Year break?

  17. Morning folks.

    'Serious subject - is there any way to find a lighthearted approach to this?'

    More up Tanya Gold's street, I would have thought.

  18. Can I play?

    Seaton - 'Seriously, I wonder if anyone, ever, in the history of the world, ever, other than maybe Superman, has been such a damn fine specimen of health, strength, and vitality, and looked this freakin' good in Lycra'!?!?

  19. Andrew Brown:

    'Erm, if I don't know where my journalists handbook, ethics guide, and fact checker thingy are, do I still have to use them....?'

  20. Laurie Pennie:

    '*Theme from She-Ra*/Excerpts of dialogue from citizen smith/*Theme from A-Team*....'

  21. LOL - those are gooduns.

    Was trying to think of something witty but my brain is not so much puree as liquefied and coming out through my nose today. Can't seem to get it to work properly.



  22. My thought for the day? A special present for Dennis McShane...please, Santa...Delbert McClinton - In The Jailhouse Now

  23. Seamus Milne's Thought For The Day: Nepotism. Is it such a bad thing?

    Lindsay Mackie's Thought For The Day: I hear ya, bro.

    Laurie Penny's Thought For The Day: You say 'media ho' like it's a bad thing.

    Max Gogarty's Thought For The Day: Bastards, bastards, you're all bastards.

    John Harris's Thought For The Day: Why I find Ed Miliband's eyes quite dreamy and limpid and not like those of a silently seething axe murderer at all.

    David Mitchell's Thought For The Day: You say 'media ho' like it's a bad thing.

    Simon Jenkins's Thought For The Day: Will this do?

  24. stop it, james and eddie!

    just dropped sadnwich...

  25. awwww, captain beefheart has died...

  26. One more:

    Kettle: 'Cooo Eeee, Cameron, I'm over here. I just done wrote something really spesh about you! I mean, inspired by you, obviously, for I am just the vessel through which your true magnificence shines....'

  27. james

    [picks up remaining fragment of sandwich]

  28. Aw man.

    Just realised Captain Beefheart has died.

    Lunatic legend that he was.

    Sad now. :(

  29. have just picked up train tickets for journey 'home' on Monday.

    if everyone could touch wood / cross their fingers / chant / pray / exercise most appropriate luck-related superstition or practice that the trains don't get f***ed up by weather, would really appreciate it...

  30. Anyone seen the news about massive Europe-wide train fuck-ups for the next week?

  31. Julian Glover:

    'Did I ever tell you, you're my hero.....dodgy economic stats.....You're everything I would like to be.......Political Sciencey bit......I can fly higher than an eagle.....more dodgy economic stats and a bit of political sciencey stuff......dubious right-wing wisdom dressed up in Guardian-speak....Because you are the wind beneath my wings!!!'

  32. Definitely done now!!

    Good look Philippa.

    (I was quite lucky coming back, a day or two either way and I'd have had issues...)

  33. Just a joke, Philippa. Will keep my fingers crossed.

    Yesterday, we had a blizzard which took us from nothing to about two inches of snow in about ten minutes.

    This morning, we have had snow, some kind of new ice-splinter invention, sleet, hail, rain and skies which have gone from Armageddon black to riviera blue over the course of about half a cup of coffee.

    I do believe in global warming...I do...I do

  34. Good luck, even!!

    Right, coffee......

  35. thanks lads - will be taking 'wolf hall' and a blanket with me, to be on the safe side...

  36. In a recent Diary I recounted how when Eddie was an intern at the Nation in the late 1980s or early 1990s, I asked the future leader what I asked all interns as a matter of form, “Eddie, is your hate pure?”

    He gaped at me in shock like Gussie Fink-Nottle watching one of his newts vanish down the plug hole in his bath. “I…I…don’t hate anyone, Alex.”

    As I wrote, it is all one needs to know about the Labor leader.

    My sneer that the future of capitalism would be safe in his hands drew a reproving note from a reader, K. Kraft:

    “Granted, it would be difficult to imagine anyone being PM at age 22 or 23, as E. Miliband must have been when you say you last saw him. That was 20 years ago. Some people grow and mature over time, and I think that Miliband is surely one of them. No one watching his conference speech would've been reminded of GF-N. Unlike you, I am pleased that he didn't ‘hate’ anyone, even as a very young man, and think that quality will make him a better leader than one blinded by hate. Hate degrades, and contracts vision, and leads one to seek vengeance (or revenge) rather than to find solutions to more pressing problems.

    “I would imagine that Miliband's parents--being themselves the objects of "pure hatred"--would raise their sons to have more humane qualities. Dysfunctional, abusive parents most often rear children who are themselves bullies and haters. I gather the Miliband family was a very loving, accepting one.”

    I responded thus to K. Kraft:

    “Well, he's already sold out, lovingly expressing his support for the Afghan war, lovingly putting up no resistance to Osborne's cuts, lovingly refusing to make nasty, hating Ed Balls Chancellor, the only man who could mount resistance to cuts lovingly administered to poor. The power of love! The Miliband parents lovingly raised two awful sons. Life isn't a loving playpen.”

    --Alexander Cockburn,counterpunch.org

  37. Love Mitch Benn...
    I've been avoiding all contact with the X Factor. it's not snobbery, people, I just like music too much...

  38. Heard on Radio 4 from a BBC correspondent reflecting on his time in the US. Apparently, a car-park attendant, handing BBC-Guy his ticket, urged him to ‘have an outstanding parking experience…’.

    He doesn’t say whether he did or not.

  39. 'But I don't hate anyone...'

    Sure as shit seems like he's not keen on us though, doesn't it!!?

  40. Thanks for the updates ModRocker. Labour's resistance to this savagery has been minimal. I presume they're just as mortified at the prospect of being out of power for decades as the Lib Dems. We are truly a nation cut adrift from politics.

  41. PhilippaB
    Oh hell yes. The X Factor has nothing to do with music... just look at that tone deaf fuckwit who won - it's all about maleable cretins and £££.

  42. I had an outstanding parking experience yesterday.

    Instead of aiming the car at an oblique angle to the pavement, as required by the local authority planning office, presumably, I simply parked parallel to the pavement, thereby hogging about three spaces.

    Luckily, the white lines in between which we are supposed to slot our vehicles were obliterated by snow and there were no other cars there, so I was able to cock a snook at authority without endangering other road users or small fluffy animals.

    I think I was still hyped up and "ready for some" (not quite sure what that means) after a meal occasion of four corned beef sandwiches.

    Obviously, the snow event was also a contributory factor in this short-lived and, I hope, unrecorded by CCTV rebellious outrage.

    I am now back on the straight and narrow and feeling both relieved and secure.

  43. Morning or afternoon or whatever...

    I was just wondering whose toy boy I would be, if I really, really, had to choose.

    I mean, Kelly Brooke wasn't a bit rubbish as a TV Presenter, and Mylene Klass did that deeply dubious attention seeking stunt claiming to have warded of an intruder with a knife, and Beyonce is American so presumably a God botherer.


    They would all make me feel sort of cheap and objectified really, if I had to be their sexual plaything.

    But I suppose if you put a gun to my head it would probably have to be Kate Silverton. The way she looks at me through the telly when she is reading the news tells me that she is a very dirty girl with all sorts of repressed fantasies, no doubt many of them spefically involving me.

    Pity I don't know how to twitter, really.

  44. Snowing fit to bust here; trains apparently already cringing in the warmest corner of the engine shed. I'm supposed to be collecting #2 child from Heathrow early am tomorrow, but travel of any sort doesn't seem to be looking too promising.

  45. I think I should just clarify my earlier statement, just in case this blog is read by some secret society of traffic-wardens.

    Firstly, I did not actually park. I remained in control of the car, did not switch off the engine and moved away - taking proper precautions and obeying the highway code - after about thirty seconds.

    Secondly, it was actually two corned beef sandwiches, each of which I cut in half, so I was not on some red meat high and out of my head, hell-bent on murdering someone.

    I am also a lot quieter today and have no intention of venturing out.

  46. good luck getting the brood together, shaz.

    spence - i'd go with kate adie, meself. class and backbone. unbeatable combination.

  47. Yeah Philippa, but she is a lesbian, so I doubt she would be after my body, unlike the rest of them.

  48. I am supposed to be going to a party in the far East of London this evening. Looking aout the window at roads that are rapidly becoming undrivable.

    Not at all sure if I will make it.


  49. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNGfD6i7ckQ

    Another quality bit of JB, nice electric piano.

    "but she is a lesbian, so I doubt she would be after my body, unlike the rest of them."

    My body is a thing of such refined beauty that even the dykes have to be warded off with a stick, Spencer. Thats why i had to leave Brighton in the end. Ravenous hordes of bull-dykes simply made life unlivable....

  50. It is rotten I know, but I have to admit it is sort of fun watching the cars slide around from my window.

  51. kate adie's gay?

    that was a very good guess on my part...

  52. Oops some bloke has just fallen flat on his back in the street.He don't look a happy bunny.In fact he's turning the air blue as i speak/type.!

  53. are you lot all just sitting at the window with a cup of tea and cackling as people come a cropper in the weather?


    i want to play too.

    (Montana - bolton not having a very happy afternoon. if you have access to a betting account, i'd go with it ending at least 2 players short...)

  54. Philippa, so I have been informed by some who ought to know.

  55. philippa. Yup. A car has got proper stuck now. Am considering going to lend a hand but they keep coming and turning just below my flat, and so if I do go and help I think I will be up and down the stairs for the rest of the day.

  56. And, in fact, he did get away but driving down hill instead of continuing to try to reverse up, and another car which was coming up the hill has just replaced as the stuck one!

  57. Phillipa

    Heard a story once about Kate Adie freaking out in the middle of a war zone because she'd lost an ear-ring.

  58. Fingers x'd for for trains to Manchester and airport being in working order on Tuesday. If i can't get out of this shitty little country for a short while think I'll go nuts! Flying sleazyjet so may well have to wind up the engine and de-ice the plane ourselves - then pay for the privilege.

    Shaz - hope No2 offspring makes it home in one piece.

  59. Ha ha, a Chelsea tractor just insociantly pulled past two stuck cars and their drivers who are hacking at the snow in the road.

    The 4X4 driver shouting, see, not such a bloody silly idea after all, is it?

    OK I made the last bit up.

  60. Montana

    If that monkey doesn't make you go, "Awwwww!", it's because you have no heart

    I'm afraid in my neighbourhood it would make some people go 'yum yum'.Seriously!

  61. Thanks for the good wishes - best of luck to anyone travelling in the next few days. On the far side of insanity, #1 child is heading to London for all-night sesh for friend's 21st. Have mentioned cringing trains, but she reckons they'll make it... on the plus side, they've already spoken to friend with house in London with plenty of floor space.
    Van stuck outside window...

  62. Some kid's just lobbed a snowball at this bloke who ain't very happy.And as he was cussing at him he went arse over tit.I'm sure wars can start this way!

  63. This morning, I attended Patient A. After a brief examination, I asked Patient A. how he was feeling:

    ...it's cool. I'm not really bothered....duh...snigger....I'm used to it and just don't care....My kids were told they were not english...See you guys...Back from shopping...got to cook and clean.

    The symptoms are unmistakable--the palsied step, the drooling, the constant repetition, the bed-wetting, the loss of social skills...

    Speaking as a bogus doctor, my diagnosis is tertiary Cifyllis--prognosis: not good.

    I expect his nose will fall off over Christmas, probably while the bugger's out shopping. This will be followed by full-blown dementia praecox, whereupon, The Guardian will offer him a position as a Moderator.

  64. at least the numerous footy-related cancellations mean i don't have to deal with having to explain why i want to spend my last day in france in the pub rather than with oisette...

    wonder how long blackburn v west ham will keep my attention...hmmmmm....

  65. Jay

    Re yesterdays discussion there is to my knowledge no research concluding that Black women in Britain now earn more than average than White men.There is some research however from the Policy Studies Institute,the TUC and the Labour Force Survey -which was referred to in a Sunday Times article HERE which concludes that Black Caribbean women-as opposed to all Black women-earn more on average than White women.BUT there are several factors that need to be taken into consideration-eg the 'london effect'-before using this research as gospel.And Black Caribbean women also still suffer from higher levels of unemployment than White women.

    To my knowledge the only ethnic minority group that earn more on average than White men are Indian men who are Hindis.Indian men who are either Sikh or Muslim earn less on average.

  66. tertiary Cifyllis

    heh..heh..heh..!! Can I pinch that Mods?

  67. ooh, 'the wild rover'!

    good choice of music there, blackburn

  68. Right, all boats booked so this snow business had better stop by next Wednesday or there's going to be trouble.

    Why is it that Wightlink and Red Funnel get a free pass from the Monopolies Commission or whatever it's now called to make the Solent probably the most expensive bit of water to cross in the world? My Super Saver 2-night short stay ferry ticket is 52 quid. Thieving toerags.

  69. Well that was fun. Total gridlock for a bit with a lorry trying to come one way, a van the other, and a bus getting stuck trying to come up the hill to the junction. Fuck knows why, they are not allowed to use that road.

    And various cars. All jammed up for a bout fifteen minutes but they finally sorted it out, with some police support officers trying to push the bus uphill!

    I somehow don't think that is what did it. Has stopped snowing here anyway.

  70. Could someone please rescue my post from the spam folder.Cheers!


    Nice one !

  71. ah, actually, they've switched the pogues off, and it's all got a bit MOR. hmmmm.

  72. Put a couple of pics up. I decided in the end that my time would be more constructively used taking photos and laughing than going down into the cold to help. http://www.flickr.com/photos/theuntrusted/5270771657/

  73. Spencer

    I like the black car on its own in the middle of the road.

    It has the look of a dog which knows it shouldn't be outside on its own and is crouched ready to make a mad dash as soon as anyone gets too close, with flailing limbs and wagging tail and a clattering trail of wreckage as it flies with pink jowls flapping over clenched and almost smiling teeth.

    Obviously, I do know it is just a car...

  74. Argh, part of the Northern Line is out. I think my best bet is Northern Line and then Victoria Line. They were about the only lines working well.

    It has stopped snowing here though so there is hope.

  75. stream has switched to the darts for half time

    there's enough crazy similes* in the commentary to paper a decent sized detached house.

    'e's like a man with a new ferret doon 'is troosers being a possible front-runner so far...

  76. Just had a massive snowball fight with the local hoodies. Got totally splattered, but it ended in big grins all round.

  77. Right, apologies for any breaches of netiquette, but I'm a bit stuck on this thingy I've been playing with:

    The Political Thesaurus

    Turns out I'm not as funny, intelligent or satirical as I thought I was (I'm more of an ideas man, me!), so any or all contributions, criticisms, suggestions will be gratefully received!!

  78. ooh, james - good game to play on epic train journey, think! heheheheheheh.

    (will get back to you)

  79. Like your site, James, couldn't figure out how to post there.

    Contribution for your thesaurus from Sarah Palin:
    "But obviously, we've got to stand with our North Korean allies." =
    "Yes, I really am that thick."

  80. perhaps Penguin can help me out with some 5th level / esoteric definitions of words...i'd ask him now, but he's watching the football hoping to get a glimpse of the snow-covered sidelines...

  81. heyhabib - think someone has told Palin that 'obviously' really means something else entirely...

  82. Ooh, sussed it now, you click on "comments" - I really am that thick.

  83. Cheers, Philippa - I figure there's a lot of mileage, only limited by my own shortcomings...

    Haha habib,

    I just changed it so anyone can comment (including anonymous), might change it back if it's not needed.

  84. Hello everyone: here's the link to a good article in yesterday's Indie by Johann Hari.


  85. Cheers BB.

    And a whopping great kiss to you chekhov (I've just been looking for that very same article!)

  86. Hmmm now it is getting dark it is getting a bit strange outside.

    I just came back to the window and 3 Chinese cooks (they had aprons and chef's hats on) were pushing a stuck car up the hill.

    They managed it, the car drove off and the three cooks trooped off back towards the Chines takeway around the corner (well, I am guessing that is where they were going as it is in that direction)

  87. BB

    Just seen your post on waddya re. food vouchers being trialed - national roll out to follow.
    I first posted about this about 2 months ago when Welsh churches started collecting food. No response from Cif.

    Wreally need to push this one - it is beyond a disgrace.

  88. Just watched When did you last see your father - a film adapted from Blake Morrison's Memoir about his relationship with his father.

    Beautiful, moving film about a father/son relationship complicated by all the exasperations, confusions and secrets that get between a parent and child. Big recommend

  89. "a father/son relationship complicated by all the exasperations, confusions and secrets that get between a parent and child"

    Aye, here's for my little boy.

  90. Nice one Habib

    Jungle Book is the first disney cartoon I can remember seeing at the pictures when I was a kid.

  91. Just had the first half a pint of our patent home brew - Yorkshire Bitter-esque. Needs to settle for another week I reckon as still a bit cloudy. Very nice, though I say so messen.

    Perhaps if work gets dodgy we could start up a micro-brewery. Burnout Bitter. Mmmm...

  92. By some sort of minor miracle, the Transport for London website is now claiming good service for only two tube lines. The Victoria and the Northern, with minor delays on the District and mayhem on all the others, and the overground.

    Fortunately for me, the Victoria and the Northern are the two lines I need to get to the party (as it has been moved from its original venue, a gigantic snow drift on the edge of Epping Forest).

    So it seems I shall go to the ball.

    Hope your child can get to where they need to on those lines, Shaz. Looks pretty dodgy on the rest and I am not expecting to find many bus routes in operation when I sally forth.

  93. BB-- "Perhaps if work gets dodgy we could start up a micro-brewery. Burnout Bitter. Mmmm.."

    We already have the Frog2 Craft Cider Making tied up .

  94. Have to admit to my reading my first laugh-out-loud post of the day, from Fencewalker on Waddya in relation to Biddy's mistresses article: Did you get rid of JayReilly specifically so you could run that guff, cos he'd have destroyed it and everything else within a five mile radius in nothing flat.

  95. I too have been watching people struggling to get their cars going! One guy has given up - car still on the roadway to flat's car park underneath my window.

    First of three Xmas orders cancelled today. Fully expect the others to be :( Goose I ordered from mid Wales is MOST unlikely to arrive.

    I do have a large(ish) beef joint in freezer and a small Turkey crown. But I'm running out of potatoes and onions. The only veg I've got are carrots and frozen peas, Oh and baked beans canned tomatoes and sweet corn.

    But I wont starve I suppose and I do have Xmas cake, the makings of mince pies and four individual M&S Xmas puds.

    Daughter faces walking into work you don't stay home unless its totally impossible when you are a nurse. So it could be worse.

    Lets face it many won't be affording a Xmas this year, many have relied on charity even for Xmas dinner for years. This is going to increase.

    So all in all although it wont be my usual Xmas blow out what I've got seems pretty sumptuous.

    I am after all warm and comfortable just getting a bit stir crazy as I fear falling if I go out.

    But I hate the winter!

  96. Habib

    Nice one! Haven't heard that for ages.

  97. Annetan stop that ! making me hungrier.

    Roads here are completely iced on snow but I'm thinking of venturing 8ks to the bestpubitw. 36 hours snowed in is enough !

  98. Anne,

    is it are they the orange-in-the-middle Christmas puds?

  99. is it, or are they.

    Just pick one. Whichever you prefer...

  100. Hi @Sheffpixie, this one is for you, I had a LOL moment in my local library as there was a poster there using your avatar complete with the Russian Cyrillic text but 'Art' as the shouty bit in Roman! Perhaps you have a secret admirer here in the South?

  101. ellis 18 December 2010 4:29PM

    This really is a putrid parody of rational argument: a long essay into guilt by association, in which even the "guilt" of the associates, in this case Shamir and son, only consists of associating with "holocaust deniers" etc.

    That was to Andrew Brown, first time I've read one of his. Highly dangerous ATL person, I'm now in Pre-Mod for the very first time, hehe!

  102. Hi Annetan! Hope you are keeping well and warm xx

    Dave - we should start up a booze co-operative.

    Also, watch out for Andrew Brown - he once announced on one of his articles that he personally reported people to the mods if he didn't like what they said. I can imagine that leads to immediate sin-binning.

  103. Hi All

    Just tried to post reply to BB Eva on waddya. I am no longe registered althgh I posted earlier.

    Tried to sign in again - no can do .

    Anybody going on waddya feel free to send rude message as suits.

  104. Leni

    Try emptying your cookies and temporary files? Might have got stuck in a loop?

  105. Your profile is still active, leni...

  106. 'ning all

    having survived snow in rome (in rome!),torrential rain and works do italian style....pizza and 5 bottles of beer for 25 people......I am now in peace.......having eaten an entire toblerone in less than 5 mins.....oh and my dog tried suiciding himself with a bone yesterday......

  107. Thanks BB

    Will try later - not too bothered 'cept the food vouchers, ATOS and cuts in general need as many as poss to make a noise.

  108. BB "Also, watch out for Andrew Brown - he once announced on one of his articles that he personally reported people to the mods if he didn't like what they said. I can imagine that leads to immediate sin-binning."

    He might not have liked this then --

    "I read the article again just now. It is really the most apalling attempted smear-job I've seen for quite some time. This Brown chap is obviously a beginner at it. The GIYUS squad is here rabbiting along its usual stuff, what utter boredom.
    Just look again at this attack-job that Brown writes on the son --

    "The magazine was forced to retract and to apologise for a story he wrote in 2005 about supposed Israeli control of the Swedish media, which contained quotes attributed to three other journalists, which they denied ever making."

    I suppose Brown is some sort of professional 'Comment' writer, because he's certainly not got any of the qualities of an investigative journalist. It wouldn't surprise me for a second if those other three journalists made a choice between standing by what they said and losing their jobs."

  109. Nope, he will have reported you for that, dave, for sure. He frequently comes BTL to have a little hissy fit too, which is why I really never go near his threads.

    He also completely plagiarised a discussion we were having here, based on a link from Monkeyfish I think, about the Gog and Magog conversation Bush was supposed to have had with Chirac at the time of the Iraq invasion - I won't say it was word for word what we were saying, but it was pretty close. Considering it was something that had completely snuck under the radar til then, it was mighty coincidental that he should strangely pick it up a mere day or two after Monkeyfish did...

  110. Leni

    Your account with CIF is still active.Obviously nothing more than a glitch in the system.


    Sorry to hear you're in pre-mod.

  111. @frog2

    Have you actually read anything that Israel Shamir has written? Have a look round his site here if you haven't. It goes a bit deeper than Ellis' "associating with Holocaust deniers".

  112. Paul -- strange feeling for one with only a few dozen moddings and 'disappearances' in four years ;-) You never think it'll happen to you.

    What's best to do, mail 'em and ask length of sentence? Because a glance at my history --most is on finance/economics and latterly disability threads .

    BB enjoyed that comment! Off to read the article ... My mate halgeel there too, we used to cooperate on Somalia threads way back.

  113. Dave

    The thing to do is e-mail the mods and ask them to explain why you're in pre-mod and for how long.If you're don't hear from them within a couple of days then e-mail them again.You should be out within a few days.

    IMO it's best to contact mods if you want to sort things out quickly.You haven't been banned so you shouldn't have any problems.Good luck!

  114. did anyone hear the story of the twitter fiasco? yesterday at a european meeting attended by dear ol' berlusco there was a giant unmodded twitter feed screen.....soon was filled up by people sending messages in the guise of "f@*k berlusconi you crimminal mafiosa" and alike...nice scrolling behind the great leader....

  115. PeterJ-- read some once, nothing outrageous on the front page of his site ?

    Brown quotes this" I agree with Joseph Sobran, who said that an anti-semite is not someone who hates Jews, but someone whom the Jews hate." which I thought was rather neat . Joe Sobran died in september .

    Article in Counterpunch on Israel's Racist Rabbis by Jonathan Cook that is more important ?

  116. Gandolfo,

    Saw something about that.

    (Wouldn't it be great if all our politicians had to always be under one of those LED scrolling banners....??)

  117. @dave

    What's 'rather neat' about it?

    And yes, I know all about the racist rabbis. It's disgusting stuff, which I trust will be dealt with by the Israeli government and supreme court.

  118. james

    someone tweeted quotes from the comeback kid , this is a particular gem, i imagine to highlight berlsco's "insanity" well at least I hope that was the objective:

    "Mussolini never killed anyone. Mussolini used to send people on vacation in internal exile,"

  119. Gandolfo,

    Did I imagine/dream it, or is Mussolini's neice(?) not a TV presenter there, who keeps banging on about how great he was, and suggesting that Italy needs to bring more of that shit back!?

  120. gandolfo

    Lol! I hadn't heard about that!Would love to have seen it.Bet Italy's 'finest' wasn't best pleased.

  121. Apropos of nowt, just turned on bloomberg, and was greeted by Gordon Browns massive head!!

    Still, good to see he's still working.....

  122. James

    and was greeted by Gordon Browns massive head!!

    Was he exposing himself?

  123. PeterJ: "...the racist rabbis. It's disgusting stuff, which I trust will be dealt with by the Israeli government...".

    Bit of a trusting sort aren't you? You mean you trust that the Israeli govt will stop funding the racist scumbags?

    I won't hold my breath and neither will anyone else who's been following the behaviour of the Israeli govt for the last 50 years.

    Andrew Brown is a dishonest, petulant, spiteful jizzbucket, whose contempt for free and open debate makes him a perfect fit on CiF.

    Pity, really, because he wrote a very good book about Sweden (a subject he actually knows, as opposed to comparative religion) called Fishing In Utopia. Recommended, unlike his clueless sneaking-God-in-through-the-back-door CiF chin-music.

  124. haha, Paul - It was the one he uses for doing maths and stuff!!

    Oh, hang on a minute......!!

  125. james

    do you mean alessandra mussolini...daughter of one of benito's sons, her mother is the younger sister of sophia loren........if you are then she is a member of berlusco's party.......again, she left slagged him off for a couple of years whilst he was out of government and surprise surprise went back to PdL......she is a big gob, islamophobic, generally offensive, "backbencher" who make me want to vom everytime i see her botoxed, silicone inflated face oh she's not a tv presenter but she might as well be one as she spends more time on tv being offensive than in parliament.....but even worse is daniela santanche....truely a vicious ol trout who got where she is using her mouth...in more ways than one......

    right that's off me chest.......

  126. Whoops, what have I unleashed...??

    (Good to know I hadn't totally dreamed it all though!)

  127. Newtonian



  128. i'm actually being quite calm james cos i'm knackered, you should hear me shouting abuse at the telly...something i learnt from my partner...just as well we have good neighbours!!

    not sure whether i have heard her say it would be goood to have a benito figure back though,but then again can hear what she' saying because there's stereo abuse going on,,,,,

  129. apparently alessandra muss did have a brief tv career in the early 80's co presenting one of the tragic sunday variety progs that still are shown here,,

  130. It was a few years ago, but my 'translator' informed me that she was bigging up his "achievements", suggested that he was good for Italy, while, get this, people in the audience applauded!!

    (That was, coincidentally, about the time I started to feel a bit more uncomfortable when I was there.....)

  131. (it wasn't that long ago - she was probably a guest on someone else's show)!

  132. Was it Eurotrash?

    btw James are you now back in Brazil?

  133. @Mods

    Trusting? Yeah, on this one, up to a point. There's already a growing campaign against the racists, and moves to get those paid by the state disciplined by the Chief Rabbinate; the campaign includes a condemnatory petition signed by 600 other rabbis. I don't think such a blatant move against the 1948 Declaration can be allowed to stand.

  134. Yeah Paul, I am!

    (And gutted I gave up on a white Christmas by the looks of it)!

  135. James

    For some reason i thought you were back in blighty for good.Re the White Xmas i think it's more likely to be a grey slushy one in London.

  136. James / Gandolfo.
    Why the fuck do we put up with this shit ? People keep banging on about the EU being the entry to grace that ascending countries need, while we sit under reams of endless pointless legislation which only seems to serve a plutocracy of bankers and their economsts, and single-issue politicians who have lost all their support from the ground. I was a student of European Politics at the time of the tangentopoli scandals - the only way out for Belusconi and his evil band of shitbag pals was up. Special taxation rules for entry to the Euro ? Tick. Administration by and for the people ? No, you don't know what you want...Place looks more and more like Egypt every day.

  137. No, I'm sort of committed here for at least another two years now.

    London may be grey and slushy, but by the sounds of it, oop norf's going to be a full on Christmas Card type scenario!

    (To be fair, I did get a one last year, so I can't complain too much....)

  138. paul and james

    she's everywhere on Tv like her sidekick santanche...strangly there is a lot of people that actually believe that mussolini was good for Italy, obviously they are the deluded minority i guess the same that pant after berlusco, but even some of the old fascist guard have all but abandoned him.......

    santanche looks like a botoxed thatcher......shudders

  139. Bitterweed,

    (Without wanting to upset or offend Gandolfo) Italy scares me. It's pretty much balanced on a knife-edge, in alot of respects, and I'm not convinced it's going to go the right way!

    If it doesn't, I'm not hopeful about our prospects afterwards....

  140. bitters

    tangentopoli was the investigation that focussed on the socialist party of Craxi and Christian democrats, berlusconi was a friend of craxi and started his political career aligning himself with him.

    Berlusconi emerged from the ashes after the burning of the SP and CD parties who had previously dominated italian politics, the so called 1st republic. People thought that after the mani pulite investigations that politics had been cleaned up, berlusco represented at that time a new face in the political panorama, of course he was already colluding with the mafia. Alas mani pulite never cleaned up politics and left the door wide-open for berlsco types. IMO the problem isn't berlusconi it's the whole political system in italy that is corrupt, the 2nd republic is turning out to be far far worse than the 1st...

    as far as europe goes the only plus here is tat they actually control quite intensly any EU funds coming into italy, lest they fall into the wrong hands.
    I plead total ignorance on the functioning of the EU but many italians are happy that Italy is in it because, despite all its failure it keeps an eye on the sham that italy is now.....but that's all they do at the end of the day...

  141. james

    why would you offend me its where i live at the moment!! they'll most probably start deporting persona non grata soon!!!! It scares me as well as it does loads of italians,,,,,,,,

  142. Aye, Gandolfo, but my experience is somewhat limited (and I'm generally a bit of a div), and I know I can get quite offended when people lay into Brazil without really knowing what they're on about.

    I think you'll be OK though - it's them 'bloody extra-communitaires' that need to watch out though....


  143. gandolfo/James/BW

    Political instability and corruption and a massively ineffectual public sector have been a fact of life in Italy for years.Compensated in part by a thriving private sector,a booming informal economy and what some would say is a superior quality of life for many compared to the UK.Might be wrong but a certain close to the edge volatility is an omnipresent fact of life in Italy.And i agree with James insofar as history has shown how this 'cocktail'can tip over into something really nasty.

    I'm no expert on Italian politics but isn't there a clear north/south divide with the more prosperous north pulling in a different direction to the south?Or isn't it as simplistic as that?

  144. james

    i reckon this will happen (just call me nostradamus or Fatima!) :

    1.election at easter
    2.berlusconi wins cos bought more votes
    3.full impact of crisis starts to hit middle class and public employees really hard
    4.small medium businesses the backbone of the italian economy crumble even more
    5.huge violent protests
    6. super crackdown on protests and draconian legislation imposed
    7.immigrants get crapped on even more (is that possible in italy? oh yes)
    8.berlusco's main political activity passing laws to protect him and his interests
    9. extremist groups such as brigate rosse start to appear again

  145. Paul, I'll let gandolfo answer properly, but in my (again, limited) experience, The North/South divide in Italy is quite astonishing....

    (some parts of Naples reminded me of the fevelas here in Sao Paulo!)

  146. Interesting Gandolfo, I did a paper on the differences and appealing similarities between Italy and Japan, in 1995. Then, the 1953 system worked in Japan for reasons of gangsterism and clientism. A similar system worked (in a similarly dysfunctional form of patronage) in the single party state that was Italy. I could never get my head around arguments for proportional representation or FPTP in both countrties. To me they were academic arguments; the IMF owned both and the US needed one more than the other on occasion. Simple facts of geopolitics prevented either from descending into further bloodbaths. But the IMF cannot control now what is, ostensibly at least, an Italy in the domain of Brussels. No one voted for this outcome, ever.

  147. gandolfo - I'd broadly agree with that, although I'm more worried about the proliferation of the far right groups, and the extension of the whole 'citizen police' things that seem to be gaining in popularity.

    Then, once the lines are drawn, they'll be co-opted into the political right, and then, bada-bing, Italy provides a model for the UK, Spain, and, eventually, the rest of Europe, to emulate!!

  148. paul

    booming informal sector? mm if you mean exploiting immigrants and young italians yes, if not i don't know what you mean! Thriving public sector in what sense?

    the public debt is 125% roughly of GDP the highest in europe and the public sector is inefficient in many regards because jobs were created there during the 70s to reduce unemployment and the effect is still felt today the resources are misdirected, the level of actually public spending is concentrated in the payment of pension which is actually quite high. Why is it high because you have to pay for almost everything on top of a a taxation of 43%, believe me the health, education and social services here are pitiful compared to the UK. The problem with high pensions is simple there aren't enough young people to sustain them, italy has a very low almost negative birth rate. So what happens is they raise the age for retirement older people stay i their jobs and young people can't get work (second highest in europe)
    The north south divide is a divide because there is not real infrastructure in the south which discourages business investment, and there is organised crime which further impedes investment.

    Put all these factors together and bob's your uncle the whole thing no doubt will explode or just implode.


    for sure i'm lucky...but they are introducing legislation to throw out eu citizens that can sustain themselves already i'm not entitled to health care because surprise surprise i don't have a contract of work...like about 30% of the population......

  149. Jesus, I hadn't realised it was that bad!

    (So much for my remaining optimism that EU rules and legislation would go some way towards mitigating the situation...)


  150. bitters
    very interesting about the japan comparison i can see that, i have always compared italy with india for a number of reasons...religious "cults",male patronage, concept and alleged importance of family and kinship, corruption, organised crime and north-south divide.......

    the "ronde" were politically a failure especially in the north, apart from a few disperate groups......they have kind of disappeared off the radar....at the moment anyway but sure that's another worry among many! i used brigate rosse as an example just happened to be left wing, i should have said also a rise in right wing groups as there were in the 70s and 80s.

  151. gandolfo

    What i said was that Italy had a MASSIVELY INEFFECTUAL PUBLIC SECTOR.Compensated by a thriving private sector and booming informal sector.Italy's Black economy is massive or so i thought.But of course exploitation occurs in it just as it does here in the UK.No question about that.

    Not quite sure what your point is.Without it's private and informal sector Italy would be significantly worse off than it actually is.I said there was real potential for things to turn nasty and i made a point about the North-South divide.We're more or less in agreement,no?

  152. Indeed Galndolfo, and what exactly are India now ? A state that has volunteered democracy with cunning alacraty in the 1950s, yet to date have a worse poverty rate than all of the failed African states put together. We all know where this is heading - the Chinese millenium. They own everything from Chilean infrastructure to the South African World Cup stadia. The most captalist friendly, turbo charged cash vendor the world has ever known. Do you think they give a shit about stupid little regional Italy, and its fat, fretful and bent little mates in Belgium ? Come off it. Italy's fucked.

  153. james

    i do some work with a government agency that is trying to establish businesses from italy and abroad in the south of italy as well as areas where old industries have closed down. They have millions of euro from the EU, however the EU has a one for all rule on the utlisation of these funds so from what i understand don't take into consideration local diversity. In italy there is so much bureaucracy and political differences between provincial, regional and local levels that often projects don't get off the drawing board which means that eu funds that aren't used aren't given again..........they go back to the brussels piggybank

  154. @Peter, there are brave and decent Israelis, just as there are brave and decent people everywhere. These include the many young Israelis who flatly refuse to serve in the Occupied Territories (where, funnily enough, the most bigoted and violent 'settlers' seem to be Americans).

    The fact that they are abused as 'self-hating Jews', 'traitors' and 'Arab-lovers' etc etc ad nauseum makes their stand even more laudable. However, the behaviour of the state gives me no cause to be sanguine.

    Recently de-classified South African documents reveal that in a Nov. 22, 1974 letter to the South African defense ministry, Shimon Peres (Current Israeli President, then Defence Minister) wrote about the importance of co-operation between Tel Aviv and Pretoria.

    “This co-operation is based not only on common interests and on the determination to resist equally our enemies, but also on the unshakable foundations of our common hatred of injustice and our refusal to submit to it.”

    Do you believe, viewing the evidence (the appointment of these same racist rabbis as 'religious advisors' to the IDF, for example; the repeated and blatant racism of former Russian nightclub bouncer and current Foreign Miniser, Avigdor Lieberman; the continued expansion onto Palestinian land), that Peres and the Israeli state in general has changed its views?

    On the contrary, the evidence suggests that the Israeli government's '...hatred of injustice..' is of exactly the same quality as it was when they shared it with apartheid S. Africa.

  155. bitters

    don't need to tell me mate i know its fucked

  156. The RAC have had their Incident Support Team pulled of the road for sensitivity training. HR heard they were racist...

  157. @gandolfo, so is UKPLC - I'm none the wiser, I assure you. Where do we go from here ?

  158. Hi. Poking head round door to see if it's safe to enter. Nine hours since a new thread on Cif & nobody's posting on Waddya, so - here I am. That is if this works, as I think I've just set up a Google account, but knowing the wonders of capitalism & my rather pissed state, I may have just aimed missiles at North Korea for all I know. We can only wait & see I suppose... What you talking about?

    Just saw preview & I reckon I should say - this is xenium1 for anyone who knows or cares...

  159. paul what is the private sector compensating exactly in the public sector give me an example because i know i'm a bit thick but i can't agree or disagree with you if i'm not sure what you are talking about!
    "Without it's private and informal sector Italy would be significantly worse off than it actually is"
    who in italy would be worse off exactly with out the informal sector? the owners of tomato fields that instead of paying a formal worker €6 euro an hour pay €20 a day (11hour day) Paul by having informal workers the emloyers don't pay taxes and NI and therefore actually create more poverty for the country...think about it!

    the north south divide alone will not cause upheaval in italy it will be the combination of factor, add into the equation that organise crime is in the south and has no real intention of allowing it to develop, nor has it any intention of allowing social unrest, that is unless it benefits from it

  160. Hi xenium, never met you before in my life. I'm an irascible old cunt with a blues habit and a Korean emanuensis. You ?

  161. bitters

    if i knew the answer to that question i'd be a pretty happy bunny......smash it

  162. Hi Bitterweed, just as irascible, just as cuntish, possibly older, but prefer soul - & early punk/new wave...

  163. @Mods

    Of course I wouldn't defend the Israeli co-operation with South Africa in the 70s. I could concoct something about international pariahs finding alliances where they could, but it wouldn't make it any better.

    Nor would I defend the barmier declarations of Avigdor Lieberman; his position is down to pure politics in a rocky coalition, and his statements are equally politically aimed at the dodgier part of his support.

    However, there are signs that the split between the politicians and the religious establishment is growing. This is demonstrated by the reaction of Israelis and the non-barmy sections of the government to the IDF rabbis and the recent racist proclamation. There is something of a power struggle going on, which the constitutionalists should win.

    I don't think that Peres' 70s statement represents a fundamental racism at the heart of the Israeli state or people as a whole. As you say, there are too many good people involved in the country for that to be true.

  164. Hi, xenium. Think we may have exchanged tunes in the past?

  165. Haha, thanks for that xen. I went to see the Blockheads the other week, first time I'd seen them since 83, when coincidentally, I was in a band and "on tour" with the very brilliant producer of this.

    Please pass it on.

    For many years I strove to be a good citizen in this participant democracy of ours. I felt I had an obligation to the brave men and woman who throughout history have made enormous sacrifices in order to improve my chances of living in a truly democratic society – an egalitariian and just society which would emerge and prevail against tyranny. Dutifully, I joined a political party with supposed functioning grassroots and a trade union with more of the same. I earnestly did the footwork that comes with the territory, giving up large chunks of my life to assist others to achieve high office. Even more earnestly I crafted policy and resolutions so that when these people achieved high office they would know what we, the lumpen footsoldiers, expected of them.

    However, with the passage of time, I began to notice a curious tendency on the parts of these people we promoted to high office. Suddenly, they became "leaders". Suddenly they knew more about everything than we did. Suddenly they were smarter. Suddenly they knew better than us. And successions of them began to take the liberty of telling entire branches, entire constituencies, entire regions, even entire conferences that they, the "leaders", knew best and that they would be disregarding our guidance despite its democratic origins.

    To old hands, this was apparently not surprising. To novices and initiates like myself, this was a profound insult to my intelligence, to my commitment, and to the large portions of my life devoted to the cause.

    When, eventually, on the backs of a famous victory of monumental proportions, the "leaders" proved to be such a bunch of rootless kiss-asses that I could no longer bear to be associated with them, I felt an enormous weight lift from my shoulders. Suddenly, I had all this free time. Suddenly substantial elements of my social life came back into being. Suddenly I was laughing more and worrying less.

    This couldn’t be right. I still held a nagging feeling that I had abandoned the brave men and women of history who had been tortured and killed in the cause of people like me having my say in a free and open society. Whilst I had plain, firsthand evidence that our current political processes simply throw up the donkeys most likely to abandon principle and kiss-ass, and that in any event none of these processes were ever intended to impinge on the real power forces at play – the underlying economics, I felt I must do something other than be a simple passive observer to the ruination of the dreams of the historically brave men and women.

    So, here posted, in three following articles, is my advice on government if any of those donkey kiss-asses should ever take the trouble to read it. In writing this, my job is done. I shan’t be toiling for any of your betrayed grassroots. I shan’t be voting for you in tosspot elections. I shall simply be leaving this where, if you have any luck, you may find it and, if you have any brains, you may heed it. If you have neither luck nor brains, then carry on "leading" this democratic society to oblivion, you bunch of sickening putzes.

    ps: Note for citizens. ALWAYS VOTE, even if only to spoil your ballot paper. Too many men and women suffered and died to bring you this limited but rare and special privilege.


  166. Paul
    oh and 8% of gdp in italy is created by the mafia...they're not gonna wipe that out are they.. and that's from informal/private businesses centralised in the south of italy but increasingly in the north.. they operate as legitimate businesses in the private and public sector.........providing substandard health care,building in the public sector using dodgy materials etc etc

  167. We sure have, Shaz. (Sat nights when you're addicted to Cif can be a right pisser!) Maybe I sat behind you in Latin? (I think that's how it went) Can't be arsed to find links to tunes just now, but am listening to ATV doing "Life" & next up is The Pogues with "I'm A Man You Don't Meet Every Day".

  168. Right, that's me done for the day!

    Have a good night folks.....

  169. paul what is the private sector compensating exactly in the public sector give me an example because i know i'm a bit thick but i can't agree or disagree with you if i'm not sure what you are talking about!
    "Without it's private and informal sector Italy would be significantly worse off than it actually is"
    who in italy would be worse off exactly with out the informal sector? the owners of tomato fields that instead of paying a formal worker €6 euro an hour pay €20 a day (11hour day) Paul by having informal workers the emloyers don't pay taxes and NI and therefore actually create more poverty for the country...think about it!

    Again i'm not sure what your point is.I,m not disagreeing with you and i certainly don't need any lectures on the appalling exploitation that takes place in the informal economy.I'm well aware of that !

    What i said in my original post was that Italy had a massively ineffectual public sector combined with problems of political instability and corruption.So i can assume we agree on that.
    It also has a thriving private sector and a large informal sector which compensate for the other problems insofar as Italy would be worse off without them.I'm not suggesting that there aren't problems in the private sector which i understand has a high % of small companies as well as the big co's like Fiat.And i repeat what i said before the exploitation and abuse in the large informal sector is absolutely unacceptable.But without it's private sector and large informal sector where would Italy be?Think about that.

    And if things do totally break down in Italy what's likely to replace it.

    I'm agreeing with you.The situation in Italy has all the signs of going from bad to worse.

  170. Ha! The Latin class! Am watching the Eddie Izzard thing on BBC2 atm & waiting to hear if my son has managed to get himself onto a replacement flight from NY...

  171. The above post is for gandolfo.And yes i,m also aware of the stake organised crime has in the Italian economy.

    Hi afowlis

  172. Unfortunately, Peter, the good people seem to be outnumbered by the pricks, as recent public surveys on Israeli attitudes reflect.

    As to whether the constitutionalists win or not, it won't materially change a damn thing on the ground for the 2 million-odd Palestinians in the Occupied West Bank, living under martial law and the guns of the IDF and the racist thugs who pass for 'settlers' these days.

    Israel cannot be a secular democracy and an occupying, expansionist colonial enterprise, all at the expense of a disenfranchised and powerless people. That kind of thing rarely ends well.

    ...but on to more weather-related news: a woolly mammoth trod on my foot today...fucking queue-jumping Siberians, coming here taking our jobs at the pachyderm-plant; making time with our female woolly mammoths. Bastards....mind you, perhaps that absinthe (with wormwood) was stronger than I thought..

    Never mind...this got my toes tapping again...Buddy Guy & Jr Wells - A Man Of Many Words

  173. Gandolfo

    One more thing.The level of corruption,criminality,political instability and incompetence in the public sector surely means that Italian society doesn't currently have the mechanisms or the will to effectively tackle its many problems-including the exploitation that takes place in the informal sector.

  174. Hi Paul. Like your style.

    Shaz. Hope your son makes it. Friends bought me the 3 Ricky Gervais live dvds last Xmas. I'm amazed how perfect his stand-up is. Fucking funny, but I sometimes feel it is just too perfect - much like I felt when I bought the Stone Roses first album - too polished for people to really care about... Eddie is funny, but then I find his constant hesitating/repitition/losing it a little tiresome & even (can I say?) affected. There's no winning -maybe I'm just a contrary sod...

  175. paul
    I certainly wasn't lecturing you i am trying to clarify what you mean exactly.
    maybe i was misunderstanding your point, i read it as private sector was replacing the public sector,and if italy hadn't followed this policy then it would be further in the shit than it is already...i don't really agree about that TBH

  176. Have you never read Orwell, Paul?

    Never use six words when one would do.

  177. @Mods

    The settlement policy was always crazy. And the rejectionism of the extremists both in Israel and among the Palestinian leadership doesn't point to anything good.

    Bloody mammoths, eh?

  178. paul

    that is a huge simplification of a huge problem...frankly i'm really too tired to go into it now, of course there is no political will to do anything apart from line their own pockets and protect their friends.....same old story just in italy it's in your face...no hiding..really

  179. Israel cannot be a secular democracy and an occupying, expansionist colonial enterprise, all at the expense of a disenfranchised and powerless people. That kind of thing rarely ends well.

    Put well...

  180. Hi Peter J - I suppose that's what it's like for all the new arrivals. Very welcoming. Hi to everyone. There, you're all covered with love & kisses on my part...
    Right, I've got Japan, Jilted John, Costello, Penetration, The Slits & Gang Of Four left on my playlist, then it's my pit. (It's gone 1 here!)

  181. gandolfo

    Fair enough.


    Never use six words when one would do.

    Maybe being a bit verbose is the one thing you and me have in common.How are you anyway?Long time no see.

    @A classy tune for everyone from Bobby Paterson

  182. xen - speaking as a confirmed contrary sod, I love that inconsequential, stream-of-consciousness stuff :o)

  183. @gandolfo
    Just looked at your 23.23 post. Great...

  184. Sign in
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    I am resigning due to stupidity.

    the above sign in for cif allows me only to use afancdogge as password - originally it was intended as such but became my user name.

    No place for user nsme and nowhere to go once I have put in email and password.

    So I am an exciffer unless I use another email account.