It is of interest to note that while some dolphins are reported to have learned English -- up to fifty words used in correct context -- no human being has been reported to have learned dolphinese.
moonwave - glad to see that you had worked out that you weren't being moderated the other night. As you probably read you fell foul of the spam bin and Montana (our site hostess) resurrected you the next morning.
Must be confusing to find a site and then find yourself disappeared!
Your comment last night:
"deano & Leni & others -
re:Atos
I don’t think reporting the doctors, while a nice notion, would work, because it isn’t the doctors who produce the reports.
The doctors only enter the data into the computer – that is their main focus there. The report is produced by someone else in some office somewhere, who knows nothing about it, using the entered responses to the LIMA software, which nobody is allow to peruse – the excuse given is that it’s the copyright of the DWP which has licensed it for the exclusive use of this third party alone.
So it’s not the fault of the person who produces the report, as they only use the data they’re given; and it’s not the fault of the doctor, as they only input the data.
The doctor can interrupt the claimants’ responses as s/he likes – the person who puts together the report can interrupt the computer inputs as they like – and LIMA is either a poor piece of programming or it’s programmed to produce poor results. This is why it often comes out like alice-through-the-looking-glass stuff – all back-to-front and not making much sense.
It is not just that they are pushing the bars increasingly and more impossibly high, but that they can put whatever they like, and it’s their word against the claimants’ account. Patient has a discussion with the doctor about their problems – report comes back stating that the patient doesn’t have those problems. What can you do?
The government have made it known that they intend to to have a million less on any sort of Incapacity benefit, and they are the source of Atos Healthcare's revenue stream - who find that it can't honestly be done.
While the report will often say that things happened which didn’t happen – that things were said which weren’t said - and every which ways around – knowing that at each stage they can knock out some percentage of claimants who won’t know how to defend themselves. (JSA can then also be refused if someone can’t manage to appear fit to work.) What happens to them? Doesn’t matter.
This is Alice-Kafka-land medicine, where many conditions become imaginary as soon as someone becomes a claimant; and officialdom always has a good nonsensical doesn’t-link-up-with-reality explanation for - anything that suits them.
25 September, 2010 01:47"
made some interesting points which are worth a wider readership.
The Incapacity/ATOS topic is of particular interest to one or two UT's. (who may have missed you tucked away on page2 of a Friday night.) - some UT readers of a delicate disposition occasionally avoid the late Friday/early Saturday am as it can sometimes be messy.....
What you say is certainly supported by my web reading and the following (interesting and valuable) site:
I'm still developing a more detailed understanding and the above site has a lot to say which is helpful to those with a an Incapacity problem or who are helping/advising friends and neighbours!
Thus far the clear advice is:
Do not even think about filling in the health questionnaire or attending for a health examination until you have read about and understood the pitfalls and trickery facing you
There is a mass of info on the above free site which mirrors a lot on the site which I subscribed to recently.
Morning Spike -- just off the cuff, no time to read more than a roundup of headlines this am, but maybe we are being 'prepared' for something . Or other . Can't think of any new jobs coming up tho .
Remember how the Public was Prepared, the Press was Squared, on Blair to be "President of Europe" ? ( European Council, whatever.
moonwave - I've tried several times this morning to respond to your post of last night....fucking system has the gremlins on long posts with links this morn!!
I've saved it and will try again later. What you were saying is well supported by my developing reading on the web...
Regarding the Kinnocks, Neil's son Stephen is married to the leader of the Social Democrats here, and he's been very naughty with paying his tax in Denmark (or not paying for years, actually). It's totally fucked the ratings for the party and a considerable number of voters think that Helle Thorning-Schmidt should now stand down due to her repeated lies, evasions and non-disclosure about her tax situation, sending her kid to private school etc etc.
Same old, same old - so-called 'socialists' who are total hypocrites and money-grubbing careerists.
Spike three bottles of wine a night is plainly not good for you.
My drinking habits are like yours, several or loads or non. (non at the minute) You ought to take four at least and then when you get to the stature of finally retired you will be able to take them by the half dozen ...or so.
moonwave - glad to see that you had worked out that you weren't being moderated the other night. As you probably read you fell foul of the spam bin and Montana (our site hostess) resurrected you the next morning.
Must be confusing to find a site and then find yourself disappeared!
Your comment last night:
"deano & Leni & others -
re:Atos
I don’t think reporting the doctors, while a nice notion, would work, because it isn’t the doctors who produce the reports.
The doctors only enter the data into the computer – that is their main focus there. The report is produced by someone else in some office somewhere, who knows nothing about it, using the entered responses to the LIMA software, which nobody is allow to peruse – the excuse given is that it’s the copyright of the DWP which has licensed it for the exclusive use of this third party alone.
So it’s not the fault of the person who produces the report, as they only use the data they’re given; and it’s not the fault of the doctor, as they only input the data.
The doctor can interrupt the claimants’ responses as s/he likes – the person who puts together the report can interrupt the computer inputs as they like – and LIMA is either a poor piece of programming or it’s programmed to produce poor results. This is why it often comes out like alice-through-the-looking-glass stuff – all back-to-front and not making much sense.
It is not just that they are pushing the bars increasingly and more impossibly high, but that they can put whatever they like, and it’s their word against the claimants’ account. Patient has a discussion with the doctor about their problems – report comes back stating that the patient doesn’t have those problems. What can you do?
The government have made it known that they intend to to have a million less on any sort of Incapacity benefit, and they are the source of Atos Healthcare's revenue stream - who find that it can't honestly be done.
While the report will often say that things happened which didn’t happen – that things were said which weren’t said - and every which ways around – knowing that at each stage they can knock out some percentage of claimants who won’t know how to defend themselves. (JSA can then also be refused if someone can’t manage to appear fit to work.) What happens to them? Doesn’t matter.
This is Alice-Kafka-land medicine, where many conditions become imaginary as soon as someone becomes a claimant; and officialdom always has a good nonsensical doesn’t-link-up-with-reality explanation for - anything that suits them.
25 September, 2010 01:47"
made some interesting points which are worth a wider readership.
The Incapacity/ATOS topic is of particular interest to one or two UT's. (who may have missed you tucked away on page2 of a Friday night.) - some UT readers of a delicate disposition occasionally avoid the late Friday/early Saturday am as it can sometimes be messy.....
What you say is certainly supported by my web reading and the following (interesting and valuable) site:
I'm still developing a more detailed understanding and the above site has a lot to say which is helpful to those with a an Incapacity problem or who are helping/advising friends and neighbours!
Thus far the clear advice is:
Do not even think about filling in the health questionnaire or attending for a health examination until you have read about and understood the pitfalls and trickery facing you
There is a mass of info on the above free site which mirrors a lot on the site which I subscribed to recently.
So Kinnock junior has married into Danish politics - didn't know that. Fancies being a prince of Denmark possibly? Can he stand in his own right? No surprises with the tax business. What a bunch of self serving tossers these people are.
Right..off to a demo to support a Biafran family in danger of deportation. the children's school is doing a fantastic job supporting them. Little local acts of solidarity can mount up. Maybe there is some hope after all....
An interesting post from you.I do however question the ethics of those doctors and nurses working for ATOS who are conducting these inhumane medicals.For they must be aware they are fundamentally flawed and the wrong outcome has the potential to cause untold distress to people who are already genuinely sick or disabled.Already there are has been one suicide and several suicide attempts by sick and disabled people as a direct consequence of them losing their benefits after being examned by ATOS.And that IMO makes the medical profession guilty by association because so far organisations like the GMC etc haven't spoken out against their members paticipating in these medicals.
I had intended to make the following link before I became bogged down with the spam issue so I'll make it now before I'm away for the day.
Many/most of us like us dolphins me included but the campaigns to save them by being caught in fishing nets encouraged more long line fishing...........with fucking god awful results for the majestic 50 million year old Albatrosses.
Next time your at the supermarket ask the manager about the company policy on long line fishing and supporting the preservation of the Albatrosses - if they don't have one complain.
The problem is easily solved and makes good economic sense. It only costs a few quid to fly bird scarers behind fishing boats , they keep the birds away long enough for the baited hooks to sink before the birds go for them. Makes sense for the fishermen - why waste your bait and hook on a drowned seabird?
We've just kicked off in our away game with West Ham.In theory we should thrash the bastards but in reality this is my beloved Spurs we're talking about.I'll weep if we lose this one-seriously!
Oh dear. My sympathies, Paul. I quite like Spurs - although I can't abide Harry Redknapp. What's he's done to the Pompey fans twice doesn't bear thinking about.
Just back from dropping my lad round at his friends. Where "dropping round" means him, his guitar, his Marshall head and a speaker, and picking his mate up on the way with his bass, speaker and mic stand... I didn't realise I had requalified as a roadie. Why doesn't he get a normal teenage activity like glue sniffing instead? Less to carry!
As a Liverpool fan, I am saying nowt about the footeh. Period.
So there was a difference of 1.3% in the vote which probably means that it was so close that David will hang about like a bad smell for the next few years with his cronies ready to start takeover attempts whenever Ed gets a bit of bad press, it's a pretty bad result for the Labour party as a whole. (Says me with my extensive political nous ;) ).
"5.00pm: Here are some more details on the voting figures:
David Miliband won the first round with 37.78% to Ed Miliband's 34.33% - Diane Abbott was knocked out, and the second preferences of her voters redistributed.
In the second round, David won again, with 38.89%. Ed got 37.47%. Andy Burnham was knocked out and his votes redistributed.
In the third round, David won with 42.72% to Ed's 41.26%. Ed Balls was knocked out and his votes redistributed, leaving only two candidates.
In the final round David fell behind with 49.35%. Ed won with 50.65%"
Looks like he made it on Balls redistributed vote - that would make David as Shadow Chancellor an interesting choice....
The word 'finally' should have been in in the above...he plainly picked up a higher proportion of second choice votes from all the eliminated candidates!
This election has been good for the Labour party - it has been conducted in a constructive spirit and thousands of members have been able to take an active part of the debate. David Miliband is a worthy winner and has my full support as a new generation takes Labour forward and makes this coalition a one-term government."
I've come to the conclusion that the spam filter decides that a few posts in a short time from the same IP = spam. My hope is that once comments from the same IP get approved often enough, it will figure out that that IP is okay.
I'd like to request that other admins please remember to check the folder from time to time, especially during the work week when I can't be on while most of the rest of you are.
Thanks!
I don't suppose there's a snowball's chance in hell of my Trotters pulling one out tomorrow. :-( Fucking Utd. Fucking Berbatov. :-P
This election has been good for the Labour party - it has been conducted in a constructive spirit and thousands of members have been able to take an active part of the debate. David Miliband is a worthy winner and has my full support as a new generation takes Labour forward and makes this coalition a one-term government.
If you haven't noticed the links on Incapacity Benefit bookmark the one above at 11:16 and come back to it when your less busy.
You may already know all that the site is offering by way of helpful info. I didn't and thought it might be helpful. It certainly pays a read for anyone not sure what is directly involved in the ATOS "interrogations".
Thanks Deano, I bookmarked it earlier and I am sure it will come in very handy when I have my next medical, not sure when that will be and obviously the uncertainty adds to the stress of it all.
Oh sorry Spike, the courses title is Biology: Uniformity and Diversity which is basically a nice little hook to hang basic biological theories on.
Not sure that I like the idea of agreeing in any way with Peter Bracken but I have really found the course (level 2) a bit disappointing.
Sounds a bit of a daft thing to say considering that I am worried about passing the exam but considering I have put very little work into it that is completely my own fault.
I actually found the level one course I did last year more taxing.
I found his speech cringingly embarrassing, what was with all the 'I Believe' stuff, I half expect him to say 'I believe the children are our future', which to be fair would have been amusing.
Cheers Montana - interesting theory, but it was as you can now see my first post of the day at 10.36 (now resurrected) that got spammed, and it did so before the other posts followed. From my end I was aware that it wouldn't load..hence my 'testing' comment that followed
In the event why would it then allow the subsequent (shorter) posts?
My reading around the net suggests that spam box is a problem that is now affecting lots of blogs and some think it may be triggered by including links (or the way they are formulated) to other sites that sets off the 'bin' mechanism...?
It might be worth a note for new/returning members in the UT header...to the effect... that regrettably some posts may temporarily 'disappear' for reasons beyond the control of UT but they will be 'rescued' ASAP.
25 September, 2010 18:02 ..... rewritten to make sense..original deleted.
Jenn - don't want to distract you at the minute but note the advice I'm reading is telling people to start to become aware of the pitfalls before you next fill in the questionnaire which precedes the medical.
You aren't distracting me Deano, I am having a night off and you are right I really should look into it a bit harder and get myself ready because I am acting a bit head in the sand at the moment.
As far as I am aware I am not due for another medical until the end of next year but I think that the reforms (started by New fecking Labour lets not forget) mean I could be called in at any time.
If the forms and medical were the ones I did last time then there would be no problem, but with these new ones I have zero doubt that I will end up on JSA, I have almost become resigned to it.
Sheff - I will forward the email to you with the login and password.
BTW, was watching a mini-series today from 97 written by Fay Weldon called Big Women, which tracked the feminist movement from the early 70s via a publishing house called Medusa (no, really not Virago at all! :p ) It was really rather good if a bit corny. It is on Virgin cable at the moment.
Just wanted to say i agree wwith deano that when you do get your ESA50 form from the DWP which precedes the ATOS medical you must be careful how you answer the questions.There are some good websites about which can give you much better advice than me.Also it might be an idea not to let on to the DWP/Atos that you're doing an OU degree.It might sound over-cautious but from what i,m hearing people who are clearly sick/disabled are being declared 'Fit for work' just for admitting they have good days and bad days.:-)
Thanks for for that, I do know about some of the things you are and are not supposed to say, the fact that you can't just tell them your real situation and expect a fair hearing is so disgusting.
I was talking to my Dr recently about it and he gave me the same advice (he knows exactly how unfit I am for work).
He told me to avoid eye contact, not to tell them how I am trying to make myself more attractive to employers (the OU degree), to dress down and to really emphasise the physical aspects of my illness.
Like me he thinks that I will be declared fit for work simply because I am perfectly physically well.
He is not trying to help me cheat the system but he is aware that I may well be seen by someone who has no experience with mental health issues.
The reports from specialist psych drs will not be taken into account and that basically means I don't have a leg to stand on (in a metaphorical way). ;)
Nice picture Sheff - always good to see people working together to try to change things.
I was trying to remember how to load the pictures when BB posted.
I'm not sure how I did it. When I had to get a laptop a few months ago it came with Norton 360 which saves all the log on details and passwords and automatically loads them when I revisit the sites. Trouble is the passwords are now coded and don't appear so I couldn't work out what it was!
Me fiddling about trying to work out how I did it has put another picture of Mungo up...
I think I may have mentioned this before but my sister, who works to get people with extreme special needs into work, went to an ATOS medical with one of her 'clients', he basically could not communicate with the interviewer, she was there to explain his situation and to tell the Dr what he was saying.
To all intents and purposes this poor guy is unintelligable.
Found fit to work? You bet he was, he didn't get a single point.
She lost her faith in the welfare system right there and then despite her formerly being one of those people who thinks you only have to really try to get on in life.
The mental health questions and the tricks ATOS use to try to manipulate the scoring system against applicants are all out there.
The site I paid to join has some very useful material that I'll make sure that you have a copy of in due course.
Your specialist Dr's opinions do matter - but it is a case that you have to make sure that they are brought into play at the right time so that you can rely on them at any appeal which may be necessary.
Don't worry at this point - your exams are more important right now.
Sounds like you've got things under control and if you're not due to be examined until the end of next year it's unlikely they'll call you in beforehand.There's already too many people in the system and if they try and speed things up any more it will break down altogether-which come to think of it wouldn't be a bad thing.My advice would be to try and forget about it,get your OU exam out the way and have a bloody good Xmas.Summer's only just ended and already i've seen Xmas crackers for sale.Madness!
Don't mind me:just checking the google blog connection in case I want to post later. It has annoying habit of giving me the "503 Error" when I've gone to a lot of trouble to post some links.
I,ve got a message for you from Leni.She's having trouble getting through here so she asked me to tell you that she wishes you all the best plus a couple of xx.
@Jen: Argos are not taking on staff. They are taking on robots to replace them. Instead of placing an order with a human being you have to type your order into an automated machine.
I've spent many hours over the last few months re-fitting Argos stores all over the country.
Humans are too expensive and expendable. Much easier and cheaper to get the customers to do the work themselves.
I'm told it's called "progress"!
All very depressing really but an inevitable consequence of falling for "The American Dream" hook, line and sinker.
This is an attempt to see if I still exist or not. Having spent the day alone, unable to contact utters I think perhaps I have become a figment of my imagination.
Waddya recognises me but that is so far removed from reality I doubt it is a guarantee of my continued corporeal being.
I should consider my self fortunate since no one as yet has designed a robot to replicate what I do for a living but even that proviso doesn't guarantee me any work.
We have seasonal jobs here - many who work in tourism look to the Christmas season to tide them over the winter months until touristy places open again at Easter.
Hard times for many families - people will borrow to pay for Christmas and then be in an even bigger mess.
Mungo is a splendid chap - I will have to post pics of Dogge. Not so handsome as Mungo but he does sport a silly grin.
I have a pic of a yorks. wheat field - taken during my return journey after headlong dash to Newcastle to recue my young Indian friend from deportation. Yorkshire has some wonderful skies.
I checked early this morning and my message hadn’t appeared, while I now find that I have since shot from obscurity to fame.
Deano Appreciated, and for so well illustrating the confusions of the spam box. I now know that if I end up with a message telling me that blogger couldn’t perform my request, that it’s gone into the spam box, and it should appear at some point. I do realise that it's not ideal when it ‘suddenly’ appears in the midst of an early-hours chat session, but it’s a matter of when I can get to it – apologies ahead for any oddities in my transmissions while I wait for blogger to accept me. The spam-larks definitely add to the confusions of the newbie!
Paul I agree with you completely – to be an Atos practitioner passes the point of any sort of decency, as by now nobody involved should be in any doubt as to the damage that is being done to many of its claimants.
I was just pointing out why I don’t think it would be possible to pin them down individually – while personally I feel that the whole outfit should be on human-rights-violations charges.
This is exasperated by the policy of the DWP of sending someone a letter, without warning, informing them that they are now fit and their income will now cease – the date given for the ceasing of all income is usually the previous week – which is enough to make most anyone feel suicidal.
How can they pretend that this helps anyone?! Of course the junk-theory – created by millionaires – is that then they will be forced to go onto JSA to get some money and so into finding that good job – in fact, the even-more-junk-theory was that removing these people’s income would bring about a nation of disabled entrepeneurs.
This of course presumes that most claimants are putting it on or imagining their conditions, and so they only need to be pushed towards that wonderful just-waiting-for-them job – which in most places doesn’t exist, and where it does is isn't at all wonderful, and generally so low-wage as not to improve anything; and will almost certainly go to someone fitter. But why let the details of reality get in the way of a their media fantasy?
I receieved a letter today from the Financial Ombudsman informing me that it had found in my favour of my claim to get LloydsTSB to refund the the fucking rip off they sold me as a "PPI":"Payment Protection Insurance" Protection insurance, my arse, protection racket more like! I've already took LloydsTSB to court and they have stumpted up over two thousand quid into my bank account because they knew fine well they were running a scam.
BTW; if anyone else is being conned it's not that difficult to reclaim the money that you have been conned out of.
Leni roughly translated he appeared to be saying it is wrong to take a little bit from the rich just so they will have less - so let's take it from the poor instead.
the usual excuses about the rich needing incentives to work harder - if we took most of their money of them they would have to work even harder over longer hours to try to maintain their living standards.
In the Alice-Kafka-land we now inhabit, there seems to be no problem with the reasoning that the rich need to be given more to encourage them to work, and the poor need to have more taken away from them to encourage them to work.
While - it is now the wealthy who are getting together to protest - about any hint of cuts to their lifestyle - of continuing to amass even more – and to fight for their rights – to campaign against the poor having any rights.
Good luck to everyone else too , Jen & Jay for revision, Sheffpixie for demonstrating, Leni for researching night an day , and all others . Keeping a low profile for the mom, XX
In memory of all those people, and for the future of all those in Wales. I think full independence for Wales, Cymru (how horrid is the name of simply foreigner), for all people in Wales.
The Welsh are not natural capitalists, not by genes, but by culture, and it's time we stated that, and made a difference.
Que? The Welsh have consistantly shown no wish to break away from the Union.Devolved power yes but full independence no way.And on what basis have you decided the Welsh are not natural capitalists?I take it you're aware that socialism and social democracy can underpin a society within the capitalist system.The problem in Wales as in the rest of the country is there currently isn't the political will for that.Plus there isn't the upward pressure from the people.Although hopefully sooner rather than later the introduction of PR will ensure that those of us on the Democratic Left will be better represented especially in England which politically is a horrible shade of blue at the moment.
Things hopefully will change but if you were suggesting that the Welsh are somehow genetically programmed to becoming an independent Marxist state then where's your evidence?
I'm actually genuinely shocked by Martyn's outburst both here and on waddya.The bit above in bold is Martyn's post and the bit in italics is my response.Wow !
Apart from a bit of gentle banter what have i done to you that warrants such a venomous outburst?Yesterday you had me moderated on waddya for jokingly suggesting that one of the many avatars you paraded made you look like a disgraced relative of Hermione,s And today you've had me moderated again for pointing out your hypocrisy in suggesting that Ed Milliband looked like Russ Abbott.Please explain what else i've done to you and more importantly how you justify your double standards.
It's alright mate i,ve dealt with him.If he apologizes i'll accept it but i'm not expecting him too as he didn't when he crossed the line with monkeyfish.Losing 1-0 at West Ham as well .It ain't been my day.Hope you're well.Here's a tune from Nina Simone to get things chilled here.
we keep missing each other. I got involved in Martyn's posts about Wales on waddya.
The ATOS thing - and Unum - concern me deeply- not cos I draw benefits and stand to lose out but because of what they represent.
There is aviciouness inherent in the philosophy which drives them. The rich have entitlement whereas as the poor have none.
Sickness in the poor has been redefined as a psychsocial complaint having no basis in physical fact. The rich still fall prey to bodily ills but the private hospitals exist for them.
Any doctor who works for ATOS can read the forms and instantly recognise that a terminally ill patient who can lift his arm above his head is not necessarily able to withstand the rigours of an 8 hour working day. Doctors who work for ATOS - as their agents - are guilty of depriving the sick and disabled of both financial support and the professional standard of care they are entitled to from a doctor.
My ATOS comments were not against people who are against the government and this ATOS shit, I am in message there.
My concern was that The G would be fucked off with all this .. The G ain't doing enough .. shtick.
I suggest a softly softly approach for the G, build it up, make it a reportable issue, campaign etc. and I am blasted as being a twat against the cause, like as if I was to the right of Glover. That is a sort of nasty place to be.
If people don't know where I am at, read the fucking comments I have made on CiF.
Definitely anyone who needs to go through that process should read everything they can find out about it, now that we know that every part of the process is set up in order to trick the claimant in some way. Although even if you do make sure you’ve got the right amount of points, they seem to be able to overlook the forms anyway.
The government are saying they want to re-test everyone next year whatever - although there’s always the hope that it’ll cause the whole system to crash. The appeals system is already overwhelmed, and all who give advice to those on benefits – although I've seen suggestions about making cuts to benefits advice.
From the minute someone comes to the entrance of the assessment centre, everything will be watched and noted – how they enter – how they sit in the waiting room and for how long – how they react to anything that happens… The assessment room will always be a small walk away, and it will be noted that the claimant managed to walk such-and-such a distance all right. The chair provided will be of a certain type – fairly low and without arms - and situated at an angle to them, to observe how the claimant deals with it. What the claimant is carrying and how they are carrying it will be noted, and how they took off any garment… and soforth. When it suits, these notes will be invented.
It is suggested that those with mental-health problems should act like they’re mental. The reality is that nobody who goes in and doesn’t fully enact their condition hasn’t a chance, and quite often not even then – which is ridiculous really. How can a complete stranger assess complex medical problems in so-many minutes, with no medical evidence being accepted? Even more so, talking of machines taking over from people, how can a piece of software programming do it?
(I saw a comment once – I spent years trying to prove I wasn’t insane, and now I’m having to try to prove that I am.)
Often the assessor will actually act sympathetically, as if they are there to help and advise, so lulling the claimant into a false sense of this person caring about their well being – only to find afterwards that they’ve been thoroughly stitched up. It’s all webs of deceipt – the sole purpose being to fail the claimant whatever their condition.
Definitely never tell them you’re doing anything educational - or anything at all really - this means you can obviously do a forty-hour-a-week job without problems (besides finding one).
While many appeals are succeeding – and there the doctor’s evidence is taken into account – it’s a long, stressful process on a minimal income, and the DWP can quite happily not worry about taking a few weeks to get around to supplying that minimal income meanwhile; and the process is getting longer as the appeals system gets increasingly clogged up.
But - there’s always hope.
Also – good luck to all OU students here – I did many of their science courses over some years – assignments through the summer and exams as the clocks changed – horrible – and there was always too much real life going on to concentrate properly.– but I still keep in touch with a few of the characters I met at some wild OU summer schools (over which a veil shall be drawn).
I,m probably feeling now what you did when i had my meltdown a few months ago.I know we've disagreed about what was said exactly etc and i'm glad you've accepted my apology.However from one Black man to another i can now appreciate that i may not have acknowledged in my apology just how deep certain words can hurt and for that i'm sorry.Wherever you're are right now there's a big online fraternal manhug coming your way.Big respect to you.
>> in all the years we have chatted on Cif I >> have never known you to be racist.
I'm defintely not. But I will throw racism back in the face of racists, even recondite racists. Especially a sniping person who makes personal comments rather than attack my POV.
My ATOS comments were coincidental with me coming here. I was invited by Frog.
Some people interpreted that wrongly. As some sort of gloating.
Yes, maybe I am pissed off when armchair critics get all high and mighty.
The Guardian? Who the fuck thinks that The Guardian - the liberal grain - will all of a sudden go radical and support a proletarian cause? a meaningful left wing campaign? I mean, FFS, be feckin realistic here.
@ Paul: so you are a black guy. I wouldn't have guessed.I don't give a stuff whatever "flavour" you are, I'm just happy that you are accommodated on this website and I'm genuinely interested in your posts.
Bloody Hell, I'm getting all of a guilt feeling for making in appropriate remarks about Black people. Still, I suppose some one somewhere will get hold of the wrong end of the stick!
It's a sorry world where the colour of the wrapping paper is deemed by some to be more important than the gift within.
I don't think your comment can be taken amiss in any way..
Someone one waddya just called me a 'taff' - my response is 'what the hell'. Racists are deliberately destructive, largely ignorant and thoroughly despicable.
Martyn was certainly out of order - he genuinely seems to have felt that Paul attacked his Welshness and so retaliated- wrongly.
Martyn. You're a puffed up fat welsh tart who is beyond parody.
How the city of Cordoba has accepted you into her most sylph like and yet brilliantine heart is beyond me; yet there's that other big fat fucking poove living in Brussels too. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, and the whole world is a re-run of it's a knock-out and I’m Stuart Hall.
Stranger things have happened.
The other thing, while we’re at it, and while you’ve broadcast it all over the internet, your music is shite. Abysmal.
I can only imagine Moroccans and Tunisians flooding to the shores of Spain and Portugal in the early eighties only to encounter the daytime TV soaps; the soundtracks of which your infinitesimally unpleasant twiddling would properly match – these could only drive them back onto the boat and rediscover everything from John Lee hooker to Hendrix Sorry fat boy but these are the facts. Stick to the city, cos you sure don’t make it in music and you sure don’t make it on paper. OK.
Hooray! Is that a happy-clappy dolphin?
ReplyDeleteThey are not as good at it as seals, but higher up the food-chain than those loathsome sucker-fish.
Is it just me or is the Welsh Windbag suddenly popping up all over the place? Why this sudden outbreak of Kinnock?
ReplyDeletemoonwave - glad to see that you had worked out that you weren't being moderated the other night. As you probably read you fell foul of the spam bin and Montana (our site hostess) resurrected you the next morning.
ReplyDeleteMust be confusing to find a site and then find yourself disappeared!
Your comment last night:
"deano & Leni & others -
re:Atos
I don’t think reporting the doctors, while a nice notion, would work, because it isn’t the doctors who produce the reports.
The doctors only enter the data into the computer – that is their main focus there. The report is produced by someone else in some office somewhere, who knows nothing about it, using the entered responses to the LIMA software, which nobody is allow to peruse – the excuse given is that it’s the copyright of the DWP which has licensed it for the exclusive use of this third party alone.
So it’s not the fault of the person who produces the report, as they only use the data they’re given; and it’s not the fault of the doctor, as they only input the data.
The doctor can interrupt the claimants’ responses as s/he likes – the person who puts together the report can interrupt the computer inputs as they like – and LIMA is either a poor piece of programming or it’s programmed to produce poor results. This is why it often comes out like alice-through-the-looking-glass stuff – all back-to-front and not making much sense.
It is not just that they are pushing the bars increasingly and more impossibly high, but that they can put whatever they like, and it’s their word against the claimants’ account. Patient has a discussion with the doctor about their problems – report comes back stating that the patient doesn’t have those problems. What can you do?
The government have made it known that they intend to to have a million less on any sort of Incapacity benefit, and they are the source of Atos Healthcare's revenue stream - who find that it can't honestly be done.
While the report will often say that things happened which didn’t happen – that things were said which weren’t said - and every which ways around – knowing that at each stage they can knock out some percentage of claimants who won’t know how to defend themselves. (JSA can then also be refused if someone can’t manage to appear fit to work.) What happens to them? Doesn’t matter.
This is Alice-Kafka-land medicine, where many conditions become imaginary as soon as someone becomes a claimant; and officialdom always has a good nonsensical doesn’t-link-up-with-reality explanation for - anything that suits them.
25 September, 2010 01:47"
made some interesting points which are worth a wider readership.
The Incapacity/ATOS topic is of particular interest to one or two UT's. (who may have missed you tucked away on page2 of a Friday night.) - some UT readers of a delicate disposition occasionally avoid the late Friday/early Saturday am as it can sometimes be messy.....
What you say is certainly supported by my web reading and the following (interesting and valuable) site:
Link to DWP/Incapacity site of practical value and experience
I'm still developing a more detailed understanding and the above site has a lot to say which is helpful to those with a an Incapacity problem or who are helping/advising friends and neighbours!
Thus far the clear advice is:
Do not even think about filling in the health questionnaire or attending for a health examination until you have read about and understood the pitfalls and trickery facing you
There is a mass of info on the above free site which mirrors a lot on the site which I subscribed to recently.
Regards.
Morning Spike -- just off the cuff, no time to read more than a roundup of headlines this am, but maybe we are being 'prepared' for something . Or other . Can't think of any new jobs coming up tho .
ReplyDeleteRemember how the Public was Prepared, the Press was Squared, on Blair to be "President of Europe" ? ( European Council, whatever.
I'll get me tinfoil hat ...
Mornin'
ReplyDeleteUgh! I knew we shouldn't have opened that final bottle last night. I have an idea I might have posted some terrible music but daren't look.
Spike
Simply cant face anything Kinnockian on what looks like, through the blear, to be a beautiful day.
I didn't know Dolphins spoke English and at least 45 more words of it than I can manage this morning.
moonwave - I've tried several times this morning to respond to your post of last night....fucking system has the gremlins on long posts with links this morn!!
ReplyDeleteI've saved it and will try again later. What you were saying is well supported by my developing reading on the web...
Regards
And it's now dissappeared back into the ether again!
ReplyDeleteSpam box key anybody??
Hello visitor from Singapore - all welcome to comment here.
ReplyDeleteRegarding the Kinnocks, Neil's son Stephen is married to the leader of the Social Democrats here, and he's been very naughty with paying his tax in Denmark (or not paying for years, actually). It's totally fucked the ratings for the party and a considerable number of voters think that Helle Thorning-Schmidt should now stand down due to her repeated lies, evasions and non-disclosure about her tax situation, sending her kid to private school etc etc.
ReplyDeleteSame old, same old - so-called 'socialists' who are total hypocrites and money-grubbing careerists.
"..Why this sudden outbreak of Kinnock? ..
ReplyDeleteConference - leadership result day.
Spike three bottles of wine a night is plainly not good for you.
My drinking habits are like yours, several or loads or non. (non at the minute) You ought to take four at least and then when you get to the stature of finally retired you will be able to take them by the half dozen ...or so.
Regards
Deano
ReplyDeleteSheff my lips are sealed
Oh God...it was that bad!...oh well.
Interesting tit-bit Scherf thanks.
ReplyDeletemoonwave - glad to see that you had worked out that you weren't being moderated the other night. As you probably read you fell foul of the spam bin and Montana (our site hostess) resurrected you the next morning.
ReplyDeleteMust be confusing to find a site and then find yourself disappeared!
Your comment last night:
"deano & Leni & others -
re:Atos
I don’t think reporting the doctors, while a nice notion, would work, because it isn’t the doctors who produce the reports.
The doctors only enter the data into the computer – that is their main focus there. The report is produced by someone else in some office somewhere, who knows nothing about it, using the entered responses to the LIMA software, which nobody is allow to peruse – the excuse given is that it’s the copyright of the DWP which has licensed it for the exclusive use of this third party alone.
So it’s not the fault of the person who produces the report, as they only use the data they’re given; and it’s not the fault of the doctor, as they only input the data.
The doctor can interrupt the claimants’ responses as s/he likes – the person who puts together the report can interrupt the computer inputs as they like – and LIMA is either a poor piece of programming or it’s programmed to produce poor results. This is why it often comes out like alice-through-the-looking-glass stuff – all back-to-front and not making much sense.
It is not just that they are pushing the bars increasingly and more impossibly high, but that they can put whatever they like, and it’s their word against the claimants’ account. Patient has a discussion with the doctor about their problems – report comes back stating that the patient doesn’t have those problems. What can you do?
The government have made it known that they intend to to have a million less on any sort of Incapacity benefit, and they are the source of Atos Healthcare's revenue stream - who find that it can't honestly be done.
While the report will often say that things happened which didn’t happen – that things were said which weren’t said - and every which ways around – knowing that at each stage they can knock out some percentage of claimants who won’t know how to defend themselves. (JSA can then also be refused if someone can’t manage to appear fit to work.) What happens to them? Doesn’t matter.
This is Alice-Kafka-land medicine, where many conditions become imaginary as soon as someone becomes a claimant; and officialdom always has a good nonsensical doesn’t-link-up-with-reality explanation for - anything that suits them.
25 September, 2010 01:47"
made some interesting points which are worth a wider readership.
The Incapacity/ATOS topic is of particular interest to one or two UT's. (who may have missed you tucked away on page2 of a Friday night.) - some UT readers of a delicate disposition occasionally avoid the late Friday/early Saturday am as it can sometimes be messy.....
What you say is certainly supported by my web reading and the following (interesting and valuable) site:
Link to DWP/Incapacity site of practical value and experience
I'm still developing a more detailed understanding and the above site has a lot to say which is helpful to those with a an Incapacity problem or who are helping/advising friends and neighbours!
Thus far the clear advice is:
Do not even think about filling in the health questionnaire or attending for a health examination until you have read about and understood the pitfalls and trickery facing you
There is a mass of info on the above free site which mirrors a lot on the site which I subscribed to recently.
Regards
appeared again at 11.06 after a repeated reposting effort.
ReplyDeleteWill it stay or will it go (to spam)?
should have read 11.16 - disappeared again now??
ReplyDeleteSo Kinnock junior has married into Danish politics - didn't know that. Fancies being a prince of Denmark possibly? Can he stand in his own right? No surprises with the tax business. What a bunch of self serving tossers these people are.
ReplyDeleteRight..off to a demo to support a Biafran family in danger of deportation. the children's school is doing a fantastic job supporting them. Little local acts of solidarity can mount up. Maybe there is some hope after all....
ReplyDeletemoonwave et al me post finally seems to have come out of spam and repositioned itself above at 11:16.
ReplyDeleteCheers Sheff your indefatigability is both worthy of salute and admirable. You is a star young miss.
For the record (and for research) did anyone get me out of spam or did the system work out itself that I am an innocent?
ReplyDelete"some UT readers of a delicate disposition occasionally avoid the late Friday/early Saturday am as it can sometimes be messy....."
ReplyDeleteOh it's never really that bad, Deano. You just have to hang up your dignity at the door and remember to pick it back up again on the way out.
Sheff, there's always hope when good people do good things. Hat off to yer!
I suppose it could have been my enthusiasm for Busby Berkeley that got me spammed.
ReplyDeleteFucking lawyers....... see where that BB mislead me to. It's all her fault.
Wild dancing hippy lawyers and (Busby Berkely) Google Blogger mnay have deduced that I am an out of work Asian porn star on the make.....
Is there no end to the tribulations of posting on UT?
Any news from Blogger on the spam issue Montana?
Well it hasn't picked me out(spammed me)for being unintentionally racist.
ReplyDeleteI didn't of course wish to imply that it it's only out of work 'Asian' porn stars that Blogger might target.
I just read something on the net that said that Blogger had introduced the spam filter 'cos of intrusions by Asian based porn sites...??
True dat habib - UT is no place for the overly dignified! Glad to read that no real employment problems for you.
Hey Deano, when you're good with a knife and have no scruples, employment is easy to find...
ReplyDelete(I make the best sandwiches in town)
ReplyDeleteMoonwave
ReplyDeleteAn interesting post from you.I do however question the ethics of those doctors and nurses working for ATOS who are conducting these inhumane medicals.For they must be aware they are fundamentally flawed and the wrong outcome has the potential to cause untold distress to people who are already genuinely sick or disabled.Already there are has been one suicide and several suicide attempts by sick and disabled people as a direct consequence of them losing their benefits after being examned by ATOS.And that IMO makes the medical profession guilty by association because so far organisations like the GMC etc haven't spoken out against their members paticipating in these medicals.
I had intended to make the following link before I became bogged down with the spam issue so I'll make it now before I'm away for the day.
ReplyDeleteMany/most of us like us dolphins me included but the campaigns to save them by being caught in fishing nets encouraged more long line fishing...........with fucking god awful results for the majestic 50 million year old Albatrosses.
If you are unaware of the problem look in on the following link Think again about the price of long line caught tuna and then click on the video link therein.
Next time your at the supermarket ask the manager about the company policy on long line fishing and supporting the preservation of the Albatrosses - if they don't have one complain.
The problem is easily solved and makes good economic sense. It only costs a few quid to fly bird scarers behind fishing boats , they keep the birds away long enough for the baited hooks to sink before the birds go for them. Makes sense for the fishermen - why waste your bait and hook on a drowned seabird?
@Sheff
ReplyDeleteGood on you. Keep up the good work.
And whatever you posted last night, it can't be nearly as awful as my single contribution. :-)
Congratulations to PeterJ and PhilippaB.
ReplyDelete(Bastards...)
Yey City!
ReplyDeleteWe've just kicked off in our away game with West Ham.In theory we should thrash the bastards but in reality this is my beloved Spurs we're talking about.I'll weep if we lose this one-seriously!
ReplyDeleteWe are already 2-0 down.
ReplyDeletePaul, if you can't be the Hammers, there are probs. Northampton beat us, mind. :-(
ReplyDeleteYes! City beat Chelski. A win against Bolton tomorrow would take United to one point from the top.
ReplyDeleteAnd Alex believes his team can win the Premiership, unlike some...
Before their game this lunchtime, Man City's Roberto Mancini has tipped Chelsea to run away with the league this season
Heheh. Must be lovely for the City players that their boss has so much faith in them.
Jen... Watford, hate 'em. Come on, the boro!
ReplyDelete3-0 nil habib Diane Abbott has got more chance of winning than us.
ReplyDeleteNow come on you Baggies!
ReplyDeleteI'm afraid, Habib, that Bent will score at least three goals this week.
ReplyDeleteI know this because I transferred him out of my fantasy team yesterday!
I think it's time for a pint, Paul. (though I'm stuck on the alcohol free ones.)
ReplyDeleteIt's your fault then, James! :-)
ReplyDeleteOh dear. My sympathies, Paul. I quite like Spurs - although I can't abide Harry Redknapp. What's he's done to the Pompey fans twice doesn't bear thinking about.
ReplyDeleteYup, Habib.
ReplyDelete'Fraid so!
I also made Arshavin my captain and he just hit the post twice in the space of 30 seconds.
(I never have Man U players in my team, but thinking about it, I probably should......)
@Spike
ReplyDeleteTypical one-eyed bombast from a Red. When Ferguson does it, it's 'mind games'; if it's Mancini, not.
Still, good (if boring) stuff from the lads.
It's early days guys,early days!
ReplyDeleteYeah, Paul, but the bad news for you is that Bale's also in my team, and no West Ham players are.....
ReplyDeleteSorry 'bout that!!
@PeterJ
ReplyDeleteI tell you what, hold on to that post. You can use it on the day when Ferguson says another team will walk away with the Premiership. ;-)
* * *
Brunt. What a wanker.
Afternoon, cuddly fuckwits.
ReplyDeleteJust back from dropping my lad round at his friends. Where "dropping round" means him, his guitar, his Marshall head and a speaker, and picking his mate up on the way with his bass, speaker and mic stand... I didn't realise I had requalified as a roadie. Why doesn't he get a normal teenage activity like glue sniffing instead? Less to carry!
As a Liverpool fan, I am saying nowt about the footeh. Period.
@bb
ReplyDeleteI've always liked you.
So how can you possibly be a Liverpool fan? :-o
BB
ReplyDeleteYou'll get used to the roadie thing.
But probably not the football.
As a Northamptonian all I can say is WTF ?!!!
NOWT! Not a word! :p
ReplyDeleteHabib - that's two!!
ReplyDeleteAnd the Baggies go ahead!
ReplyDeleteHello visitor from Morocco - that you Dan?
ReplyDeleteSpike I used to like you, too. Bloody foreign manc! It looks like I might be in the mood for a nasty fight, tonight...
ReplyDeleteWant to swap owners, Habib?
ReplyDeleteI think ours are inept but not corrupt, Spike, much like our manager. Bebe? Ha ha ha ha ha
ReplyDeleteAnything's better than Glazers. Bebe? We'll see. Berbatov looked like a waste of £30m at one time, but not on Sunday.
ReplyDeleteNo, nice of him to turn up for one game. Well worth the money.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe West Brom are doing Arsenal at the Emirates.
Ah, with hindsight... They were offering 12-1 on a Baggies win before the match.
ReplyDeleteA City fan talking about wasting money? Pot and kettle?
ReplyDeleteNext week I'll publish my starting 11 here on Friday, and then you can all make your bets accordingly!!
ReplyDeleteAnyone watching the labour leadership thing on BBC, god they are dragging it out.
ReplyDelete@Jenn
ReplyDeleteNo. Have they got Simon Cowell going:
And the winner is... (14-minute pause) ?
4.45pm: If David Miliband hasn't won, I'll be amazed, for the look on his face.
ReplyDelete4.44pm: Ed Miliband looks as if he's lost. Seriously.
If he hasn't lost, he must be mighty good at poker.
4.43pm: Ann Black, chair of the NEC, invites the candidates on stage.
David Miliband looks very pleased with himself. I haven't seen Ed Miliband yet.
from Guard live blog
Well it's the junior slimeball then.
ReplyDeleteEd Milliband has squeaked in... and is new leader of Labour!! He won on the union votes apparently.
ReplyDeleteThat is one weird election process though.
ReplyDelete4.50pm: Ed Miliband has won. He is the new Labour leader
ReplyDelete@Sheff
ReplyDeleteThat'll endear him to the Blarites.
Circular firing squad! Ready... aim...
The Guard live blog has the voting details
ReplyDeleteSpike, "A City fan talking about wasting money? Pot and kettle?"
ReplyDeleteI sincerely hope you weren't talking about me. Good luck Bolton, because everyone hates United.
Voting details:
ReplyDeletePLP can do what the fuck they like, regardless of what the wider labour party want.
The end!!
4.53pm: So I was wrong.
ReplyDeleteLesson 1: Ed Miliband is leader of the Labour party.
Lesson 2: Don't play him at poker. He made a good job of hiding that........
I wish him well and hope he doesn't disappoint his supporters too quickly...
Judging by the junior millipede's speech so far - this is definitely going to be a charisma free zone.
ReplyDelete@habib
ReplyDeleteYep. The last time everyone didn't hate us was in 74.
So there was a difference of 1.3% in the vote which probably means that it was so close that David will hang about like a bad smell for the next few years with his cronies ready to start takeover attempts whenever Ed gets a bit of bad press, it's a pretty bad result for the Labour party as a whole. (Says me with my extensive political nous ;) ).
ReplyDeleteWill dave boy now disappear from the public stage - or become shadow chancellor?
ReplyDeleteIt's a non-result, Jen!!
ReplyDelete(If a cock-knocker beats four other cock-knockers in a neo-liberal vacuum, does anyone even care??)
"5.00pm: Here are some more details on the voting figures:
ReplyDeleteDavid Miliband won the first round with 37.78% to Ed Miliband's 34.33% - Diane Abbott was knocked out, and the second preferences of her voters redistributed.
In the second round, David won again, with 38.89%. Ed got 37.47%. Andy Burnham was knocked out and his votes redistributed.
In the third round, David won with 42.72% to Ed's 41.26%. Ed Balls was knocked out and his votes redistributed, leaving only two candidates.
In the final round David fell behind with 49.35%. Ed won with 50.65%"
Looks like he made it on Balls redistributed vote - that would make David as Shadow Chancellor an interesting choice....
The word 'finally' should have been in in the above...he plainly picked up a higher proportion of second choice votes from all the eliminated candidates!
ReplyDelete"(If a cock-knocker beats four other cock-knockers in a neo-liberal vacuum, does anyone even care??)
ReplyDeleteNice turn of phrase James - it has a ring of wisdom about it.
Cheers Deano.
ReplyDeleteIt's mainly because I've yet to find a more apt description for that shower...
Hopefully the Labour party will lick their Balls into shape, whichever one is favoured.
ReplyDeleteHeard about Gordon's declaration of full support for whoever wins, saying he wouldn't even think of doing what Blair did to him. Heheh.
ReplyDeleteThanks to those who wished me well with my exam, it isn't until the 13th October but the revision is really kicking my arse.
ReplyDeleteServes me right for not working hard enough earlier in the course.
Blimey, that was a close result... on the whole though, I'm with James on the cock-knocker front... so to speak...
ReplyDelete@Jenn
ReplyDeleteWhat are you studying?
WTF - the Guard reports:
ReplyDelete"5.13pm: Andy Burnham has issued this statement.
This election has been good for the Labour party - it has been conducted in a constructive spirit and thousands of members have been able to take an active part of the debate. David Miliband is a worthy winner and has my full support as a new generation takes Labour forward and makes this coalition a one-term government."
What a paper , what a Party!
I'm doing an OU course Spike although after Peter Bs outburst I may chuck it in and do something worthwhile. ;)
ReplyDeleteI've come to the conclusion that the spam filter decides that a few posts in a short time from the same IP = spam. My hope is that once comments from the same IP get approved often enough, it will figure out that that IP is okay.
ReplyDeleteI'd like to request that other admins please remember to check the folder from time to time, especially during the work week when I can't be on while most of the rest of you are.
Thanks!
I don't suppose there's a snowball's chance in hell of my Trotters pulling one out tomorrow. :-( Fucking Utd. Fucking Berbatov. :-P
From Andrew Sparrow's blog:
ReplyDelete5.13pm: Andy Burnham has issued this statement.
This election has been good for the Labour party - it has been conducted in a constructive spirit and thousands of members have been able to take an active part of the debate. David Miliband is a worthy winner and has my full support as a new generation takes Labour forward and makes this coalition a one-term government.
Typo? or is Andy Burnham really that confused?
Sorry deano! You beat me to it! :o)
ReplyDelete@jenn
ReplyDeleteI meant what OU course are you taking?
Jenn - guessed you were busy revising.
ReplyDeleteIf you haven't noticed the links on Incapacity Benefit bookmark the one above at 11:16 and come back to it when your less busy.
You may already know all that the site is offering by way of helpful info. I didn't and thought it might be helpful. It certainly pays a read for anyone not sure what is directly involved in the ATOS "interrogations".
Regards and best wishes with the exams
Back shortly. Just realised supermarket is nearly closed.
ReplyDeleteDeano/Shaz,
ReplyDeleteSee, it really doesn't matter who wins!!
Nobody can even be arsed to think before saying a name, any name, it's *that* immaterial!!
Still, this is an important and historic moment for the labour party, and all that jazz....
Thanks Deano, I bookmarked it earlier and I am sure it will come in very handy when I have my next medical, not sure when that will be and obviously the uncertainty adds to the stress of it all.
ReplyDeleteOh sorry Spike, the courses title is Biology: Uniformity and Diversity which is basically a nice little hook to hang basic biological theories on.
Not sure that I like the idea of agreeing in any way with Peter Bracken but I have really found the course (level 2) a bit disappointing.
Sounds a bit of a daft thing to say considering that I am worried about passing the exam but considering I have put very little work into it that is completely my own fault.
I actually found the level one course I did last year more taxing.
To be fair, Ed is probably better than David, but then only in a kind of Malaria is probably 'better' than e-bola kind of way.......
ReplyDeleteJames
ReplyDeleteI found his speech cringingly embarrassing, what was with all the 'I Believe' stuff, I half expect him to say 'I believe the children are our future', which to be fair would have been amusing.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteCheers Montana - interesting theory, but it was as you can now see my first post of the day at 10.36 (now resurrected) that got spammed, and it did so before the other posts followed. From my end I was aware that it wouldn't load..hence my 'testing' comment that followed
ReplyDeleteIn the event why would it then allow the subsequent (shorter) posts?
My reading around the net suggests that spam box is a problem that is now affecting lots of blogs and some think it may be triggered by including links (or the way they are formulated) to other sites that sets off the 'bin' mechanism...?
It might be worth a note for new/returning members in the UT header...to the effect... that regrettably some posts may temporarily 'disappear' for reasons beyond the control of UT but they will be 'rescued' ASAP.
25 September, 2010 18:02 ..... rewritten to make sense..original deleted.
Jen,
ReplyDeleteaye, if it's motivational speaking by numbers we have to listen to, we may as well at least get a few show tunes out of it!!
Obviously though, Ed was too overcome by the gravity of the moment to really grasp it....
So EdMili is the man AKA Red Ed. How long before the Murduch press have the line something like this: 'Sickening lurch to the left'
ReplyDeleteI see Red Ken's got the Labour mayoral nomination.
ReplyDeleteJenn - don't want to distract you at the minute but note the advice I'm reading is telling people to start to become aware of the pitfalls before you next fill in the questionnaire which precedes the medical.
ReplyDeleteIanG - I'm guessing tomorrow morning.
ReplyDeleteYou aren't distracting me Deano, I am having a night off and you are right I really should look into it a bit harder and get myself ready because I am acting a bit head in the sand at the moment.
ReplyDeleteAs far as I am aware I am not due for another medical until the end of next year but I think that the reforms (started by New fecking Labour lets not forget) mean I could be called in at any time.
If the forms and medical were the ones I did last time then there would be no problem, but with these new ones I have zero doubt that I will end up on JSA, I have almost become resigned to it.
Your help is much appreciated. x
Bloody hell, that was quick. I just got an email from Sayeeda Warsi slagging Ed Miliband off.
ReplyDeleteI seem to have lost the right to put up pics in the gallery. Anyone know how to get me back in?
ReplyDeleteSheff - I will forward the email to you with the login and password.
ReplyDeleteBTW, was watching a mini-series today from 97 written by Fay Weldon called Big Women, which tracked the feminist movement from the early 70s via a publishing house called Medusa (no, really not Virago at all! :p ) It was really rather good if a bit corny. It is on Virgin cable at the moment.
thanks BB - got it.
ReplyDeleteJen
ReplyDeleteJust wanted to say i agree wwith deano that when you do get your ESA50 form from the DWP which precedes the ATOS medical you must be careful how you answer the questions.There are some good websites about which can give you much better advice than me.Also it might be an idea not to let on to the DWP/Atos that you're doing an OU degree.It might sound over-cautious but from what i,m hearing people who are clearly sick/disabled are being declared 'Fit for work' just for admitting they have good days and bad days.:-)
Paul
ReplyDeleteThanks for for that, I do know about some of the things you are and are not supposed to say, the fact that you can't just tell them your real situation and expect a fair hearing is so disgusting.
I was talking to my Dr recently about it and he gave me the same advice (he knows exactly how unfit I am for work).
He told me to avoid eye contact, not to tell them how I am trying to make myself more attractive to employers (the OU degree), to dress down and to really emphasise the physical aspects of my illness.
Like me he thinks that I will be declared fit for work simply because I am perfectly physically well.
He is not trying to help me cheat the system but he is aware that I may well be seen by someone who has no experience with mental health issues.
The reports from specialist psych drs will not be taken into account and that basically means I don't have a leg to stand on (in a metaphorical way). ;)
Nice picture Sheff - always good to see people working together to try to change things.
ReplyDeleteI was trying to remember how to load the pictures when BB posted.
I'm not sure how I did it. When I had to get a laptop a few months ago it came with Norton 360 which saves all the log on details and passwords and automatically loads them when I revisit the sites. Trouble is the passwords are now coded and don't appear so I couldn't work out what it was!
Me fiddling about trying to work out how I did it has put another picture of Mungo up...
I think I may have mentioned this before but my sister, who works to get people with extreme special needs into work, went to an ATOS medical with one of her 'clients', he basically could not communicate with the interviewer, she was there to explain his situation and to tell the Dr what he was saying.
ReplyDeleteTo all intents and purposes this poor guy is unintelligable.
Found fit to work? You bet he was, he didn't get a single point.
She lost her faith in the welfare system right there and then despite her formerly being one of those people who thinks you only have to really try to get on in life.
Don't be discouraged Jen.
ReplyDeleteThe mental health questions and the tricks ATOS use to try to manipulate the scoring system against applicants are all out there.
The site I paid to join has some very useful material that I'll make sure that you have a copy of in due course.
Your specialist Dr's opinions do matter - but it is a case that you have to make sure that they are brought into play at the right time so that you can rely on them at any appeal which may be necessary.
Don't worry at this point - your exams are more important right now.
Jen The statistics are that of those who are prepared and do attend an appeal - about 50% win and that rises to 70% if they have representation.
ReplyDeleteToo many are giving up because of the humiliation and discomforting treatment they are getting.
More people need to be helped to understand how to increase the odds in their favour and to appeal.
Jen
ReplyDeleteSounds like you've got things under control and if you're not due to be examined until the end of next year it's unlikely they'll call you in beforehand.There's already too many people in the system and if they try and speed things up any more it will break down altogether-which come to think of it wouldn't be a bad thing.My advice would be to try and forget about it,get your OU exam out the way and have a bloody good Xmas.Summer's only just ended and already i've seen Xmas crackers for sale.Madness!
Hi deano
Hi Paul - nipping out so will catch you later.
ReplyDeleteFucking cold Northerly wind here in Yorkshire tonight. I don't normally put the heating on till October but might have to make an exception this year.
Must be that chill wind that leni had the other day...
laters.
Again, news from my sister who spends all day every day trying to find job vacancies, Wilkinsons and TK Maxx are not taking on staff.
ReplyDeleteThey are not even recruiting for Christmas staff.
In the current financial situation they really don't feel that extra staff are needed.
We are fecking doomed.
All we need is for Argos to say they don't need Xmas staff and we might as well give up.
Don't mind me:just checking the google blog connection in case I want to post later. It has annoying habit of giving me the "503 Error" when I've gone to a lot of trouble to post some links.
ReplyDeleteJen
ReplyDeleteI,ve got a message for you from Leni.She's having trouble getting through here so she asked me to tell you that she wishes you all the best plus a couple of xx.
Thanks Paul.
ReplyDeleteOh and thanks to Leni as well.
ReplyDeleteJen
ReplyDeleteOh and all the best for your exam from me as wellx
@Jen: Argos are not taking on staff. They are taking on robots to replace them. Instead of placing an order with a human being you have to type your order into an automated machine.
ReplyDeleteI've spent many hours over the last few months re-fitting Argos stores all over the country.
Humans are too expensive and expendable. Much easier and cheaper to get the customers to do the work themselves.
I'm told it's called "progress"!
All very depressing really but an inevitable consequence of falling for "The American Dream" hook, line and sinker.
It is very sad Chekhov, and what is sadder is that they will not take you on unless you will accept a 16 (or less) hour contract.
ReplyDeleteBTW:has anyone else noticed that "Poundland" has taken up a lot of old "Woolworths" premises.
ReplyDeleteThey just sell the same old shit but have re-branded it!
This is an attempt to see if I still exist or not. Having spent the day alone, unable to contact utters I think perhaps I have become a figment of my imagination.
ReplyDeleteWaddya recognises me but that is so far removed from reality I doubt it is a guarantee of my continued corporeal being.
Ah ha ! - I am!!
ReplyDeleteJenni and chekhov
Argus now employing robots ?
So if people can only work less than 16 hs will they still qualify for some benefits ?
this complicity of business with the rotten system has to end.
"this complicity of business with the rotten system has to end."
ReplyDeleteErr, I think you got that the wrong way around Leni:
May I suggest:"|The complicity of the rotten system to get into bed with big business"?
I should consider my self fortunate since no one as yet has designed a robot to replicate what I do for a living but even that proviso doesn't guarantee me any work.
ReplyDeletechekhov
ReplyDeleteYou are right - 2 sides of the same coin.
We have seasonal jobs here - many who work in tourism look to the Christmas season to tide them over the winter months until touristy places open again at Easter.
Hard times for many families - people will borrow to pay for Christmas and then be in an even bigger mess.
Jen
ReplyDeleteHope all goes well for you.
Deano
Mungo looks very heroic in your pic - did he harvest that field all by himself?
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ReplyDeleteIts International Peace day and just had a missive from I/P about an event at An Nabi Salih which I've stuck up on UT2 for anyone interested.
ReplyDeleteDeano
ReplyDeleteMungo is a splendid chap - I will have to post pics of Dogge. Not so handsome as Mungo but he does sport a silly grin.
I have a pic of a yorks. wheat field - taken during my return journey after headlong dash to Newcastle to recue my young Indian friend from deportation. Yorkshire has some wonderful skies.
I checked early this morning and my message hadn’t appeared, while I now find that I have since shot from obscurity to fame.
ReplyDeleteDeano
Appreciated, and for so well illustrating the confusions of the spam box.
I now know that if I end up with a message telling me that blogger couldn’t perform my request, that it’s gone into the spam box, and it should appear at some point.
I do realise that it's not ideal when it ‘suddenly’ appears in the midst of an early-hours chat session, but it’s a matter of when I can get to it – apologies ahead for any oddities in my transmissions while I wait for blogger to accept me.
The spam-larks definitely add to the confusions of the newbie!
Paul
I agree with you completely – to be an Atos practitioner passes the point of any sort of decency, as by now nobody involved should be in any doubt as to the damage that is being done to many of its claimants.
I was just pointing out why I don’t think it would be possible to pin them down individually – while personally I feel that the whole outfit should be on human-rights-violations charges.
This is exasperated by the policy of the DWP of sending someone a letter, without warning, informing them that they are now fit and their income will now cease – the date given for the ceasing of all income is usually the previous week – which is enough to make most anyone feel suicidal.
How can they pretend that this helps anyone?! Of course the junk-theory – created by millionaires – is that then they will be forced to go onto JSA to get some money and so into finding that good job – in fact, the even-more-junk-theory was that removing these people’s income would bring about a nation of disabled entrepeneurs.
This of course presumes that most claimants are putting it on or imagining their conditions, and so they only need to be pushed towards that wonderful just-waiting-for-them job – which in most places doesn’t exist, and where it does is isn't at all wonderful, and generally so low-wage as not to improve anything; and will almost certainly go to someone fitter. But why let the details of reality get in the way of a their media fantasy?
The problem is that most claimants are genuine.
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ReplyDeleteI receieved a letter today from the Financial Ombudsman informing me that it had found in my favour of my claim to get LloydsTSB to refund the the fucking rip off they sold me as a "PPI":"Payment Protection Insurance"
ReplyDeleteProtection insurance, my arse, protection racket more like!
I've already took LloydsTSB to court and they have stumpted up over two thousand quid into my bank account because they knew fine well they were running a scam.
BTW; if anyone else is being conned it's not that difficult to reclaim the money that you have been conned out of.
Leni
ReplyDeleteroughly translated he appeared to be saying it is wrong to take a little bit from the rich just so they will have less - so let's take it from the poor instead.
the usual excuses about the rich needing incentives to work harder - if we took most of their money of them they would have to work even harder over longer hours to try to maintain their living standards.
In the Alice-Kafka-land we now inhabit, there seems to be no problem with the reasoning that the rich need to be given more to encourage them to work, and the poor need to have more taken away from them to encourage them to work.
While - it is now the wealthy who are getting together to protest - about any hint of cuts to their lifestyle - of continuing to amass even more – and to fight for their rights – to campaign against the poor having any rights.
Suggest those online just note what Martyn Richard Jones has put a couple of posts above - in case he decides to delete it.
ReplyDeleteYou could also pop over to WADDYA and see whether this seems reasonable or proportionate - or just shows the character of MRJ for what it is.
Nighty night.
chekhov-- excellent news !
ReplyDeleteGood luck to everyone else too , Jen & Jay for revision, Sheffpixie for demonstrating, Leni for researching night an day , and all others . Keeping a low profile for the mom,
XX
MartyninEurope
ReplyDeleteIn memory of all those people, and for the future of all those in Wales. I think full independence for Wales, Cymru (how horrid is the name of simply foreigner), for all people in Wales.
The Welsh are not natural capitalists, not by genes, but by culture, and it's time we stated that, and made a difference.
Que? The Welsh have consistantly shown no wish to break away from the Union.Devolved power yes but full independence no way.And on what basis have you decided the Welsh are not natural capitalists?I take it you're aware that socialism and social democracy can underpin a society within the capitalist system.The problem in Wales as in the rest of the country is there currently isn't the political will for that.Plus there isn't the upward pressure from the people.Although hopefully sooner rather than later the introduction of PR will ensure that those of us on the Democratic Left will be better represented especially in England which politically is a horrible shade of blue at the moment.
Things hopefully will change but if you were suggesting that the Welsh are somehow genetically programmed to becoming an independent Marxist state then where's your evidence?
I'm actually genuinely shocked by Martyn's outburst both here and on waddya.The bit above in bold is Martyn's post and the bit in italics is my response.Wow !
Paul, no, you are bang out of order, again, again and again.
ReplyDeleteIf you can't address my politics and my comments, what the feck are you doing? Perpetuating a myth that I'm not legit?
Address my comments, address my politics, anything else is just BS
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ReplyDeleteMartyn
ReplyDeleteApart from a bit of gentle banter what have i done to you that warrants such a venomous outburst?Yesterday you had me moderated on waddya for jokingly suggesting that one of the many avatars you paraded made you look like a disgraced relative of Hermione,s And today you've had me moderated again for pointing out your hypocrisy in suggesting that Ed Milliband looked like Russ Abbott.Please explain what else i've done to you and more importantly how you justify your double standards.
martyn
ReplyDeleteOh joy, assaulted by a black gay dead sheep.
I'm not gay but your above comment is still homophobic as well as racist.
Hi All-Been in and out, so not posting regularly.
ReplyDeleteMartyn--I think those terms of abuse about Paul are uncalled for.
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ReplyDeleteBoudican
ReplyDeleteIt's alright mate i,ve dealt with him.If he apologizes i'll accept it but i'm not expecting him too as he didn't when he crossed the line with monkeyfish.Losing 1-0 at West Ham as well .It ain't been my day.Hope you're well.Here's a tune from Nina Simone to get things chilled here.
Moonwave
ReplyDeletewe keep missing each other. I got involved in Martyn's posts about Wales on waddya.
The ATOS thing - and Unum - concern me deeply- not cos I draw benefits and stand to lose out but because of what they represent.
There is aviciouness inherent in the philosophy which drives them. The rich have entitlement whereas as the poor have none.
Sickness in the poor has been redefined as a psychsocial complaint having no basis in physical fact. The rich still fall prey to bodily ills but the private hospitals exist for them.
Any doctor who works for ATOS can read the forms and instantly recognise that a terminally ill patient who can lift his arm above his head is not necessarily able to withstand the rigours of an 8 hour working day. Doctors who work for ATOS - as their agents - are guilty of depriving the sick and disabled of both financial support and the professional standard of care they are entitled to from a doctor.
Paul, you abuse me as being Welsh, I abuse you in return. No problem!
ReplyDeleteMartyn
ReplyDeletein all the years we have chatted on Cif I have never known you to be racist.
Disagree with Paul by all means - but don't abuse him in that way.
Leni:
ReplyDeleteMy ATOS comments were not against people who are against the government and this ATOS shit, I am in message there.
My concern was that The G would be fucked off with all this .. The G ain't doing enough .. shtick.
I suggest a softly softly approach for the G, build it up, make it a reportable issue, campaign etc. and I am blasted as being a twat against the cause, like as if I was to the right of Glover. That is a sort of nasty place to be.
If people don't know where I am at, read the fucking comments I have made on CiF.
Jen
ReplyDeleteNo need to worry this year at least.
Definitely anyone who needs to go through that process should read everything they can find out about it, now that we know that every part of the process is set up in order to trick the claimant in some way. Although even if you do make sure you’ve got the right amount of points, they seem to be able to overlook the forms anyway.
The government are saying they want to re-test everyone next year whatever - although there’s always the hope that it’ll cause the whole system to crash. The appeals system is already overwhelmed, and all who give advice to those on benefits – although I've seen suggestions about making cuts to benefits advice.
From the minute someone comes to the entrance of the assessment centre, everything will be watched and noted – how they enter – how they sit in the waiting room and for how long – how they react to anything that happens… The assessment room will always be a small walk away, and it will be noted that the claimant managed to walk such-and-such a distance all right. The chair provided will be of a certain type – fairly low and without arms - and situated at an angle to them, to observe how the claimant deals with it. What the claimant is carrying and how they are carrying it will be noted, and how they took off any garment… and soforth. When it suits, these notes will be invented.
It is suggested that those with mental-health problems should act like they’re mental. The reality is that nobody who goes in and doesn’t fully enact their condition hasn’t a chance, and quite often not even then – which is ridiculous really. How can a complete stranger assess complex medical problems in so-many minutes, with no medical evidence being accepted? Even more so, talking of machines taking over from people, how can a piece of software programming do it?
(I saw a comment once – I spent years trying to prove I wasn’t insane, and now I’m having to try to prove that I am.)
Often the assessor will actually act sympathetically, as if they are there to help and advise, so lulling the claimant into a false sense of this person caring about their well being – only to find afterwards that they’ve been thoroughly stitched up. It’s all webs of deceipt – the sole purpose being to fail the claimant whatever their condition.
Definitely never tell them you’re doing anything educational - or anything at all really - this means you can obviously do a forty-hour-a-week job without problems (besides finding one).
While many appeals are succeeding – and there the doctor’s evidence is taken into account – it’s a long, stressful process on a minimal income, and the DWP can quite happily not worry about taking a few weeks to get around to supplying that minimal income meanwhile; and the process is getting longer as the appeals system gets increasingly clogged up.
But - there’s always hope.
Also – good luck to all OU students here – I did many of their science courses over some years – assignments through the summer and exams as the clocks changed – horrible – and there was always too much real life going on to concentrate properly.– but I still keep in touch with a few of the characters I met at some wild OU summer schools (over which a veil shall be drawn).
Leni:
ReplyDeleteYes, racism against the Welsh is okay, I suppose.
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ReplyDeleteMartyn
ReplyDeletei am getting muddled now. When have I ever suggested you are a supporter of ATOS - I don't think you and I have ever discussed it.
I have no quarrel with you other than your using the colour of Paul's skin to abuse him.
Martyn
ReplyDeleteNo racism against the Welsh - or anybody else - is not acceptable.
For the uninitiated, heres the Burritos
ReplyDeleteThat's alrite.
habib
ReplyDeleteI,m probably feeling now what you did when i had my meltdown a few months ago.I know we've disagreed about what was said exactly etc and i'm glad you've accepted my apology.However from one Black man to another i can now appreciate that i may not have acknowledged in my apology just how deep certain words can hurt and for that i'm sorry.Wherever you're are right now there's a big online fraternal manhug coming your way.Big respect to you.
No, Martyn. Just no.
ReplyDeleteLeni said...
ReplyDelete>> Martyn
>> in all the years we have chatted on Cif I >> have never known you to be racist.
I'm defintely not. But I will throw racism back in the face of racists, even recondite racists. Especially a sniping person who makes personal comments rather than attack my POV.
Bitterweed--Sound advice and a damn fine tune as well. Hope you all have a blast at the meetup, would love to partake one day.
ReplyDeleteSome good Heat;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPOszzUpKGI&feature=related
Leni:
ReplyDeleteMy ATOS comments were coincidental with me coming here. I was invited by Frog.
Some people interpreted that wrongly. As some sort of gloating.
Yes, maybe I am pissed off when armchair critics get all high and mighty.
The Guardian? Who the fuck thinks that The Guardian - the liberal grain - will all of a sudden go radical and support a proletarian cause? a meaningful left wing campaign? I mean, FFS, be feckin realistic here.
That's what was I was saying.
@ Paul: so you are a black guy. I wouldn't have guessed.I don't give a stuff whatever "flavour" you are, I'm just happy that you are accommodated on this website and I'm genuinely interested in your posts.
ReplyDeleteBloody Hell, I'm getting all of a guilt feeling for making in appropriate remarks about Black people.
ReplyDeleteStill, I suppose some one somewhere will get hold of the wrong end of the stick!
Thats some kind of tune Bouidican
ReplyDeleteCheers banana !
x
x
x
Check
ReplyDeleteYou coming down next weekend ?
chekhov--I think your sentiments are spot on.
ReplyDeleteSlainte to you Bitterweed, I'm going to hoist a couple.
Night All-Must be away.
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ReplyDeletechekhov
ReplyDeleteIt's a sorry world where the colour of the wrapping paper is deemed by some to be more important than the gift within.
I don't think your comment can be taken amiss in any way..
Someone one waddya just called me a 'taff' - my response is 'what the hell'. Racists are deliberately destructive, largely ignorant and thoroughly despicable.
Martyn was certainly out of order - he genuinely seems to have felt that Paul attacked his Welshness and so retaliated- wrongly.
Hello Boudi
ReplyDeleteLong time no chat.
night x
I self abuse, I throw it back. Simple.
ReplyDeleteThat beer's already in the til, mate. Shame you can't come. Meantime, here's King Curtis
ReplyDeleteWhiter than white...
We have somebody from Serbia with us - will they talk to us or have we frightened them?
ReplyDeleteHello Serbia.
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMartyn
ReplyDeletei am not running with the pack - I am expressing my own opinion. I think you were wrong .
you apologised to Paul - now you are starting it all off again.
if you felt that Paul had attacked you for being Welsh you should have pointed this out to him.
Starting another long running feud is self defeating.
You and I have never quarreled before - I say as a friend -you were wrong.
an we leave it at that please?
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ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMartyn
ReplyDeletei'm sorry you see it that way. Take care.
Martyn. You're a puffed up fat welsh tart who is beyond parody.
ReplyDeleteHow the city of Cordoba has accepted you into her most sylph like and yet brilliantine heart is beyond me; yet there's that other big fat fucking poove living in Brussels too. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong, and the whole world is a re-run of it's a knock-out and I’m Stuart Hall.
Stranger things have happened.
The other thing, while we’re at it, and while you’ve broadcast it all over the internet, your music is shite. Abysmal.
I can only imagine Moroccans and Tunisians flooding to the shores of Spain and Portugal in the early eighties only to encounter the daytime TV soaps; the soundtracks of which your infinitesimally unpleasant twiddling would properly match – these could only drive them back onto the boat and rediscover everything from John Lee hooker to Hendrix
Sorry fat boy but these are the facts. Stick to the city, cos you sure don’t make it in music and you sure don’t make it on paper.
OK.
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ReplyDeletePaul.
ReplyDeleteRight place
Right time
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct4sVVqeoUE
Thats my kinda shit....
x x x x x x x x x x x x x
Been two years dad...
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDVFaheqQAg
For Blue Eyes....
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H7vaYOIKWYY
Hey fucko. This is how it's done.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPH9gYPCWGU&feature=fvst
OK.
Compare and contrast
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9PpEz1eKV0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZaZqx9v3dU
Heh...
Har har.
ReplyDeleteThis pirate's off to bed then.
Cocks.
%-)
Heh.
ReplyDelete