Thanks for the link to that petition. An obscene situation -- to ruin a woman's life because she was trying to give her children the best education she could. So many things wrong with the notion that what she did cost that school district in any way. Schools receive federal funds on a per capita basis -- so her children's attendance in their district brought them additonal federal money. Her father is a taxpayer within that district and, therefore, supports that school district financially, so they received as much local tax support from him as they do the parents of their other students.
Even if they felt the need to punish her in some way, I'm sure that they didn't have to give her a criminal record over it, thereby preventing her from ever becoming a teacher. This at a time when many people are leaving teaching and school districts are having a hard time finding qualified teachers.
Someone should publish the Collected Wisdom of His Grace.
We could ask bitey - chances are he'll have it all archived already.
Sadly my only quote from the 13thDuke was from December 2009, about his claim that I had a some kind of preferential treatment from the CiF moderators, after Hank was moaning that he's been banned and I hadn't.
I think you'll find that because BTH has defended Brooks, Barbara Ellen and the other crackpot feminist articles on CiF he has what in Monoply is termed a 'Get out of Jail free card.'
Sadly not the most reliable predictor of events. I was banned the same month.
It's interesting that Cameron and Osborne - a couple of sleek and pampered little mummies' boys - are trying to play the thuggish hard-men.
Could it be that they are trying to imitate the tough-as-old-boots charade of Mrs Thatcher to hide the fact that they "don't do" ideas or thinking?
When Mrs Thatcher sold off public utilities and operations in order that we could all pay more for a worse service, so that directors of the shiny new commercial companies could get rich quick, at least there was the pretence and clumsy hugger-mugger that it was a conventional transaction in which those entities changed hands for money.
In the Dave new world of the Three Stooges, business has gone topsy-turvey. It is now like going into your local corner-shop and taking a loaf, a newspaper and a bottle of milk from the shelves, going to the till and asking for forty fags and a bottle of whisky and the assistant saying:
"OK. That's £25...so, I'll give you...um...a tenner for the lot."
"Nah, sorry, mate. I can only take this lot off your hands for £18 and even then, I'm robbing myself."
"I could run to fifteen, but no more."
"All right, then. Give us your money, but only because I am in a rush."
PRIVATE health firms are set for a half-billion-pound “bung” from the Tory-led Government for taking work away from the NHS.
A report says they should get 14% more than health service providers – for giving patients the same treatment.
Critics suggest rewarding private health care bosses with taxpayers’ cash is a form of payback for the £750,000 they have poured into Tory party coffers.
The proposed increase would have been worth £478million extra to the private health care industry last year alone, as it picked up £3.4billion in public funds.
And news of it came as a Tory candidate confirmed what we all suspect and declared the NHS “will not recover”.
The Tory-led Government claims all it wants is for private firms and charities to be able to compete fairly.
RIP NHS
Not even flogged off in a dodgy deal.
Just handed over with a dowry to be gang-banged by Dave's mates.
"Similarly, given the structural changes, NHS staff may be less focused on patient care during the transition. As outlined within the costs section, some of this would be incurred anyway due to the reduction in the staff numbers associated with the reduction in administrative spending. However, those staff most affected are not those who are involved directly with patient care".
"The costs above are the redundancy and non-redundancy costs associated with the abolition of PCTs and SHAs. The costs vary according to the number of staff that transfer from PCTs and SHAs to GP consortia and the NHS Commissioning Board, as set out in the coordinating document".
'The costs above' are £949m (lowest estimate); £1465m (highest estimate) and £1201m (best estimate).
Tony Blair's evidence to the Chilcot Inquiry in full:
"I received information from an impeccable source, Mr White-Beardyman of Cloud. He said:
"'Everything thou thinketh ith the bithneth.'
"He wanted me to be a Prophet. Then, after successfully completing the training during a trial period, I would move up to the position of Messiah.
"Then he was going to adopt me.
"He told me. He said:
"'If I ruled the world, ev'ry day would be the first day of spring... If I ruled the world, ev'ry man would be as free as a bird, Ev'ry voice would be a voice to be heard.'
"Obviously, the voices to be heard could not include those of anyone in the Cabinet.
"Mr White-Beardyman told me to keep our special friendship a secret.
Council to ask bankers 'to give up bonuses to plug budget black hole'
A council is considering asking its wealthiest residents to part with five per cent of their annual bonuses to cover a £100 million spending gap.
Bankers and lawyers are believed to be high on the list of potential targets of a begging letter aiming to persuade them to make a donation.
The proposal, which is in its infancy, would help relieve some of the stress placed on council services and could mean some services which are currently facing the axe, such as libraries, survive.
Camden council in north London is proposing sending the open letter to selected residents. The scheme would be anonymous, completely voluntary and rely entirely on individuals’ generosity.
..........
Meanwhile, shares in Cap'n Hand, the traditional begging-bowl manufacturer, have soared by 300 percent since the ConDem regime clasped power.
Son, we live in a world that has creeps. And those creeps have to be guarded against by men with integrity. And who’s that? You? You, Lt Bitey? I have greater integrity than you can possibly fathom. You weep for your CiF banning and you curse women. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: your banning, while tragic, probably saved thousands of women BTLers from harassment.
And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves you from yourself...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want my integrity. You need my integrity.
There was a case during a Gulf war when the encryption and encoding devices failed to work.
Someone in the Gulf spoke Welsh, as did someone back here, so they communicated in the open on the assumption that nobody listening in was likely to speak Welsh.
There was also the vessel in distress in the English Channel, with a crew who only spoke Chinese. The coastguard could not make sense of them, nor they of him.
A man working in the local Chinese takeaway was sent for and everything went swimmingly thereafter.
Day before yesterday very good press-freedom demonstration in Budapest. Very impressive, peaceful, great people (several thousand). Last week's demo was ten-thousand people
I am no friend of Fortress Europe, nor have i any illusions about the EU not being primarily driven by huge economic interests.
Nevertheless i find the idea of French and German bureaucrats weaving their mining and steel industries together to such an extent that neither country would be able to produce a single tank without the other knowing, and thus avoiding another future horrible war, delightful.
I also think that the loads of different languages and attitudes will paradoxically turn out to be advantages in the long run.
Ek wonder of Duke and medve sal verstaan as ek in Afrikaans praat? Ek sal 'n eksperiment probeer. Ek verstaan Nederlands as dit geskryf is, maar sukkel om dit te praat, want die uitspreking is anders.
Bitey sal miskien nie die Nederlands verstaan nie, maar ek voorspel dat die Google Vertaal funksie sal hom uithelp.
O, ja, en ek gaan nie demo toe vandag nie. Nie omdat ek nie omgee nie, of ek iets meer belangrik doen nie, maar omdat ek net twintig pund in my bankrekening het. Is dit nie lekker om so middelklas te wees?
I kan Afrikaans makkelijk lezen. Relaxed gesprek kan ik volgen. Ik heb in Kaapstad en Maseru gewerkt in 2000. Uitgezonden door de fusie van de twee krachtigste anti-apartheid organisaties van Nederland.
Yes, you could be right that the EU, against all the odds, ends up achieving that for which it was notionally devised.
Strange that we drew straight lines on maps in the past, ignoring social and cultural affinities and divisions and histories, and now try to unify the most linguistically, culturally and geographically diverse region on earth into a universal Euroblend.
I always thought the primary purpose was for bureaucrats to filch public money collusively and with impunity and operate as the PR machine for political criminality but maybe it has other functions.
"Movodsholoss i gimd sho idoi og gdomch imd Godmim budoiucdiss doivimg shoid mimimg imd ssool imdussdios sogoshod so such im oxsoms shis moishod coumsdy dould bo iblo so pdoduco i simglo simk dishous sho oshod kmodimg, imd shus ivoidimg imoshod gusudo hoddiblo did, dolighsgul."
Ja, ek kan ook nederlands verstaan as die mense stadig praat. Ek dink ook dat my Deuts dit 'n bietjie makliker maak. 'n Ou nederlandse man wat ons geken het het altyd gese dat Akfrikaans net 'Kombuis Nederlands' was. Kaapstad is mooi, maar nooit so mooi soos KwaZulu Natal. :-)
Eek, dit was a goeie oefening om in Afrikaans te skryf. Ek het besef skielik hoe verroes my Afrikaans is! Ek moet meer praat, anders gaan ek vergeet!
Ik had vroeger een afschuw van Arikaans wegens het vooroordeel dat het "de taal van apartheid" was. In Kaapstad heb ik gezien dat het toch anders ligt. (gelukkig).
Medve, I'd better switch back to English as I guess I'm being a bit rude, indulging my need to speak a language so few people know. Afrikaans was definitely always seen as the language of apartheid, but it was always more complicated than that. It's spoken more fluently by most poorer black people than English is (although I think probably for most black Afrikans, English is emotionally the preferred western language). But as you've undoubtedly noticed in Cape Town, most of the 'Coloured' people of South Africa speak Afrikaans as a first language. I think there's a growing affection for the language in post-apartheid SA. It's got a fantastic gutteral quality, an earthiness that's about it being a lived language. there are things I want to say that just don't translate into English - like 'bevok' (never as rude in Afrikaans as 'fucked' is) 'verkramp' (now isn't that better than 'conservative'?), 'gatvol', 'eina' and 'lekker'. It's capacity to convey the texture of emotion is far better than English. I think this is why South African English is so littered with fragments of Afrikaans.
In other news, I have a pet theory that klavier was a major in a past life. And what happened to smtx? Did they spontaneously combust? Their profile appears to have been killed.
Sorry, I know this is all trivial. It's about the level my brain's reached this morning - a bit of gratuitous insult and a load of fluff.
I can understand all those posts, but it takes me ages to read them and for my brain to work them out. After nearly 3 decades I suppose that I am no longer bilingual! Though when really rattled I tend to swear in Afrikaans. I loved in District 9 when the "fokken bliksem" was uttered, I say that a lot!
I dunno about Klavier being a major, there's not quite the same sharpness? The subject matter, and style seem similar, but...
I always thought the primary purpose was for bureaucrats to filch public money collusively and with impunity and operate as the PR machine for political criminality but maybe it has other functions.
Sure. Like i said, huge economic interests. I haven't been in all 31 countries (EU-27 + Iceland, Lichtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland), but i have family and friends in about twelve different countries. From the point of view of personal contacts and travel things have improved over time, at the cost of soaring surveillance and draconian European Arrest Warrant type erosion of personal liberties and privacy.
Funny, I thought katie60 was the one with the Bracken touch. The same sesquipedalian sneering and identical ad homs.
I quote:
The surreal quality of the debate you're having with Cif's deluded browbeaters is par for the course on these pages.
The inability of supposedly smart individuals to distinguish between suicide bombers and professional soldiers is just flat-out stupid. The inability to distinguish between the actions and motives of suicide bombers and professional soldiers is flat-out pernicious.
And the combination of pseudo and ignorant comment, laced with the likes of meerkatjie's ridiculously laboured condescension and backtothepoint's infantile allegiance to communism, is flat-out blogging fuckwittery.
Sadly klavier4 has been banned from CiF, (was 'syntax' a hidden message to the mods BB?) so this exchange will need to continue here, rather than be completed there. Anyone interested in free speach might like to post a note informing WDYWTTA readers.
Montana wrote:
Are you deliberately twisting what she said or are you just too thick to understand her point? Which is not that serving soldiers would, could or should opt to stay at home with their needlepoint and/or knitting, but rather that if -- as you claimed --
the first intent of conventional military personnel was to survive
they never would have joined the military in the first place. She is trying to point out to you that people who join the military are aware when they sign up that they may die in service. That fact renders your assertion ludicrous.
Well I might be too thick to understand Montana so as a member of the teaching profession do you have a self-administered test I can do that might help us answer the question?
Spike It lacks the economy of cuntishness that I recognise. It does however convey a similar intent to hunt down and then maul a decent turn of phrase, in the name of free market fundamentalism.
I won't write in Dutch but that's really interesting seeing Afrikaans written down, I could understand you no problem at all. I've never really looked at Afrikaans, all I know is that it is "Old Dutch" and has a lot more similarities with Flemish than 'modern' Dutch.
Do you use the hard 'g' in Afrikaans? Or is it the softer Flemish version?
During last years world cup I was surprised to see that none of the Dutch reporters spoke Afrikaans with the South Africans they interviewed, it was always in English.
Perhaps if you showed a spark of comprehension there'd be no need to labour to explain such basic concepts to you.
Could you elaborate this soundbite with something that approximates reason and argument?
I'm sorry, but anyone who imagines war is not ideological is either a bit thick, a bit ignorant, or a bit disingenuous. Which is it in your case?
. I think I can manage them, bless their little socks, with or without the help of vitamins..
Do try to stick to debating what people actually say. I find it makes for more interesting discussion.
Look, all the little worms are crawling out of their holes?
But you'll forgive me for saying that, realistically, I don't really give a fuck what you think. .
It's called 'the internet'. You might have heard of it.
Could you keep your pig ignorant views to yourself, or take them somewhere where they're likely to be received with the approval you obviously crave?
And that's only in the last couple of days - there's a veritable treasure-chest of equally rational and reasoned 'interesting discussion' from meerkatje if you care to look. I finally understand why such a monotone and patronising poster is admired by so many here. Such wit and intellectual brilliance is a rare commodity. It's a shame about the total lack of substance.
If you have no idea of what context is, you too could keep your pig ignorance to yourself. I'd have no trouble producing a string of nasty little quotes from you, but frankly, I wouldn't waste my time.
A park. Meerkatjie sits on a blanket strewn with various picnic items. She is playing on a Nintendo DS. Klavier enters from stage right and sits on the blanket.
Meerkatjie: There is absolutely no difference between a suicide bomber and a member of any other armed force. You know why? Because if soldiers wanted to survive, they’d stay at home and do some knitting.
Klavier: Hmmmm...not really, because most armed forces go to great lengths to ensure that their soldiers don’t die. Soldiers may accept a risk of death, but they don’t set out with the intention of dying. So really they’re nothing like suicide bombers.
Meerkatjie: Look, clearly you’re incredibly thick, but bless you for trying to understand my argument about the knitting. I really appreciate your effort dearie, but perhaps we could talk about this when you have stopped being so incredibly thick? Thanks. Bye now.
Klavier: Hang on, wait a minute...
Katie60 walks on from stage left and sits on a nearby bench.
Katie60: Klavier, I wouldn’t bother. She won’t listen to you, she’ll just keep making random supercilious, insulting and condescending remarks until you get frustrated and leave.
Klavier: Ok, but...I was just saying...
Meerkatjie: Aw bless, Katie60 is saying stuff now! Look at her, saying words like a real person! Well, you two are just adorable, but I’m afraid I’m only interested in, you know, real debate and stuff? One day you’ll understand.
Audience [en masse]: Oh you cannot be fucking serious!
Anyway, I'm not going to let anyone spoil my mood. I've got the pizzas and booze in and mates are arriving later to see United smash the Scummers, so I'm anticipating a very pleasant evening.
Spike, when you refer to 'a string of nasty little quotes from you' I really hope you're not implying that meerkatje has ever been 'nasty' to her intellectual inferiors. That wasn't what I was implying at all - I was only giving a few recent examples of her inimitable rational 'debating' style.
Logic and reason are wonderful things and context is everything.
The surreal quality of the debate you're having with Cif's deluded browbeaters is par for the course on these pages.
The inability of supposedly smart individuals to distinguish between suicide bombers and professional soldiers is just flat-out stupid. The inability to distinguish between the actions and motives of suicide bombers and professional soldiers is flat-out pernicious.
And the combination of pseudo and ignorant comment, laced with the likes of meerkatjie's ridiculously laboured condescension and backtothepoint's infantile allegiance to communism, is flat-out blogging fuckwittery.
Oh look. Luke and Bitey playing really nicely together. It's good to find friends, boys. Kindred spirits, even.
"Logic and reason are wonderful things and context is everything."
Which in a nutshell is pretty much the point of every one of those quotes you've just chucked out there, Luke.
Do you have a day job? I know you're frightfully political and everything, but do you actually do anything other than sitting on the internet telling people like BB and I how crap we are?
And Bitey, Oz's post might have been funny if his premise was right. As it is, I didn't actually say the stuff he's claiming in his opening paragraph, which was also the substance of my query to Klavier, who had similarly decided that I'd said something I hadn't in fact said.
Montana's summary of that discussion is rather more accurate. Why don't you cut and paste that too, there's a good chap?
Good luck with the demo sheff and mschinIf you haven't already seen it you might want to read THIS BLOG.Direct action can have an impact and amongst other things has succeeded in getting an ATOS medical examination centre in Leeds closed down for the day.It's great that ATOS and A4E are being targetted this way.
Dunno what reputation the police in Sheffield have but hope you don't have any problems with them.Good luck!
SO bitey, you were Klavier. I had my suspicions. YOur new nick held for a while, there were no incidences of 'in February 2009 you said X'.
Other than that, all power to the people of Egypt, all power to the people demonstrating in the UK. I can't be inovlved in both becuase of OU work. Obviously I could never be involved in the Egyptian protsts, what I mean is I can't follow the liveblogs and updates. Call me old fashioned, but in some ways I prefer the fixed evening news reports, some of us just don't have the time to follow a story as it happens.
Languages- in addition to Russian I am somehwhat slowly learning German, which I hope will give me more flexibility in getting the hell out of Britain in the coming years.
I seem to have developed an intimate relationship with the spam folder.If anyone with admin privileges is about could they please retrieve my latest post.Cheers!
Are you deliberately twisting what she said or are you just too thick to understand her point? Which is not that serving soldiers would, could or should opt to stay at home with their needlepoint and/or knitting, but rather that if -- as you claimed --
the first intent of conventional military personnel was to survive
they never would have joined the military in the first place. She is trying to point out to you that people who join the military are aware when they sign up that they may die in service. That fact renders your assertion ludicrous.
And now Montana you really are showing your ignorance of the UK armed services. It might have been true in the days of conscription that the loss of life of the foot soldier and as recently as The Great War, of the Officer Class was considered of less importance to the most senior army personnel than it might have been, had they had more concern for the welfare of those who actually did the fighting.
However since the UK has had totally volunteer, professional armed services, a major stratregic concern has been to minimise casualties and it's a strategy that's been remarkably successful. Construction, agriculture and extraction industries all have higher fatality rates than the army despite the fact that these industies are covered by the Health and Safety at Work legislation.
Now this is hardly surprising given the need to make the armed services an attractive proposition to young men and women. So even before they join up, the idea that would be soldiers might stay at home with their knitting and needlepoint is as ridiculous and insulting as suggesting to would be bricklaying, quarrying and agricultural apprentices, "that they might die in service".
Of course if you opt for the fighting Corps, your risk of death and injury is higher, but so are the rewards of being part of some of the most effective combat units anywhere. And the potential for career progression is very good, so I'm told.
Well, bitey, if you didn't spend so much time with your head between your legs kissing your own arse, you might have noticed I'd already posted the katie60 drivel and commented on how Brackenesque it was. Smitten with the major as you are, I can understand you fawning and cooing over anything that looks like his work.
Do you have a day job? I know you're frightfully political and everything, but do you actually do anything other than sitting on the internet telling people like BB and I how crap we are?
In answer to your questions, meerkatje, yes and yes. I never post from work so I don't actually post during working hours. How do you manage to find the time to post so many comments telling everybody else how crap they are? You are quite impressively prolific - perhaps you don't have a day job?
By the way, you seem to be rather exercised about the affront to the professionalism of the British armed forces that you claim this is. Funny.
Because your claim that their first intent is their own survival sounds to me quite a bit like a statement that British soldiers are self-serving cowards who care more about their individual survival than they do about fighting for whatever cause they have been asked to fight for.
You might like to spend a little time examining the strategic and the tactical approaches to minimising casualties in military operations Montana. Then you might realise that while the former relies increasingly on advanced technology, intelligence and planning to minimize casualties, the latter relies on taking the fight to the enemy. This is why the highly trained British infantry units are capable, not only of defending themselves and minimising casualties but at the same time taking on and defeating numercially superior enemies, through a long standing tradition of courage in battle.
As such I think you might reconsider your accusation of "self-serving cowards", don't you think?
Now I know vitually nothing about military combat so I'm quite happy to be corrected on any of this by those who do. Shame Peter Bracken isn't around don't you think?
Brrrr...freezing on that demo. Not a bad turnout given so many have gone to Manchester and London. Have stuck a couple of pictures up. Some excellent tub thumping speeches that got the crowd whooping. Must thaw my feet out.
I have just been catching up with RapidEddie's link to the "On Being Called a Cunt by Laurie Penny" thread, where the comments have developed into pure comedy gold. And was that our own Montana joining in? See for yourself here.
Montana's summary of that discussion is rather more accurate. Why don't you cut and paste that too, there's a good chap?
Glad to have obliged and you may now explain why your jibe about knitting and needlepoint, was really being supportive of those young men and women who rather than spend their youth and young adulthood on the dole, are prepared to seek a career for themselves in the relative safety of our armed services.
And for the record, I have always treated you with the greatest respect.
And then you out yourself in your crap anagram identity of Reikval on Whaddya at 3.36. Who are you going to blame when Reikval gets banned, you muppet?
My basic dispute has been with the claim of primacy. I then got rather annoyed with Bitethehand / Klavier telling me I held views I hadn't expressed.
I really thought better of you Meerkatjie than to see you sink to the level of Tony Shallcross. I suppose you're going to claim the BeautifulBurnout defence of "please Miss Shallcross did it before me".
So I'm not surprised you're heading back to the sanctuary of your work.
You say in response to Fencewalker:
My basic dispute has been with the claim of primacy. I then got rather annoyed with Bitethehand / Klavier telling me I held views I hadn't expressed.
So let's dissect my original post, initially contesting Shallcross' refusal to recognise intent:
You display a stubborn insistence on refusing to recognise that the intent of the suicide bomber is quite different to that of conventional military personnel, whose first intent is to survive.
Now if you can't see that this is a statement of overall strategy for as others have pointed out, dead soldiers can no longer fight, their death is bad for morale, they are expensive, they make recruitment more difficult and most of all they are likely to leave wives and children fatherless. Individual soldiers on the other hand will have a variety of intentions ranging from the sacrifice of Private Martin Bell who defied his commanding officer, to others who might avoid risk whenever they can.
But I also went on to add the caveat about preventing soldiers and indeed politicians from taking any actions, particularly unlawful ones, that might improve their chances of survival:
And that survival means the possibility of facing international laws that govern military action and having to live with the consequences of their action. That goes for the humble foot soldier and the Commander in Chief. The war in Iraq has provided us with examples of the former and as we watch the outcome of Blair's appearances before Chilcot, to some extent even the latter.
So if you still stand by your statements about knitting and needlepoint, then I think you're the poorer for them.
Spike, you really are quite slow on the uptake sometimes.
Reikval was constructed merely as a means of completing the exchange that I started with my post to kizbot on 27 January and to point out that as klavier4 had been banned, the exchange would continue here.
As and when I want to post on CiF I'll go through the rather tedious process of constructing a new identity yet again.
No Bitey. If I had wanted to out you to the mods I would have said "Fuck off Bitey". "Syntax" was a "secret" message to you to let you know I knew who you were.
If you got yourself banned again it is prolly cost the mods have your posting style firmly imprinted on their minds, too. Your vast array of strawmen erected at every turn is hint enough.
I thought you were going to try and change it? You need to make more of an effort if you wish to passer inapercu, dear.
Britain's debt management industry was the subject of a crackdown yesterday, with 35 companies surrendering licences and a further 15 facing disciplinary action by the Office of Fair Trading.
The OFT took action after issuing warnings in September to 129 firms that offer advice to people struggling with debt. There has been mounting concern at the activities of the sector at a time when family finances are under pressure from economic turmoil, rising inflation and high levels of debt built up before the financial crisis.
Above from Indy
the debt Counselling vultures finally being taken to task ? i hope some of them go to prison - I know of a family in desperate straits after guy lost his job who responded to unsolicited phone call claiming to be from gvt. department who lost everything including their home. Finished up 'owing' so called counsellors thousands.
Bidisha thread is closed now? The mods took pity on us then.
Definitely been a funny day or so on CiF but nothing we haven't seen before - posts deleted and posters banished to the interweb wilderness that is not CiF.
Indeed, Spence - comment is free but facts are erm, sacred-ish.
Leni
Been over to the Indy but can't find the crack down to which you refer. Terrible about what happened to your friend & his family. Just one question: what took the OFT so bloody long?
The Egyptian military are hanging back. They would have acted by now, if they were going to. Maybe they've still got a spirit of Nasser about them... After all, Mubarak has made himself into a King Farouk wannabe... fingers crossed.
And that's not good for the Muslim Brotherhood, if it is the case. (They are not nice people.)
i am cautiously heartened by the behaviour of the Egyptian army - still at fingers crossed stage. Too many dead and injured people already but the Egyptian people are behaving courageously.
Some suggestion that elements in the police are responsible for the trashing and looting of police stations. The picture is not clear.
the one thing certain is that Mubarak must go - his western backers must not add to the confusion.
I think Suleiman knows Mubaraks secrets...he needs to be kept close. Have hopes that the army will stick with the people...but still got everything crossed. There are powerful vested interests who will be very unhappy bunnies right now. And what the fuck are the police and security services up to?
It is interesting that Netanyu has forbidden his cabinet to comment on Egypt. Is he simply afraid of supporting the guy who may be the loser - keeping his options open or is there more to it ?
Israel stands to lose a lot here - the ordinary Israelis would be the losers if Israel was left stranded with no local allies - particularly if Gaza was opened up at Egyptian end.
so many millions of victims from repressive policies. Change is in the air - next chapter unknown.
Could be very big changes - the Israeli angle is a concern - they wouldn't be at all happy about a more open Gaza border with Egypt if that should transpire. So many powerful interests have a big stake in what's unfolding - the lives and well being of so many people hanging in the balance. Very dangerous times.
Apparently the carbon paw print of medium sized dog is the equivalent of 2 gas guzzling 4x4s - based on amount of meat they consume. Two hamsters = one large plasma screen.
Dogge will have to start getting into recycling or sumatt to offset this.
BTW: I've flagged this up before but it's well worth a read if you have a stomach for the consequences. ("The Silent State" by Heather Brooke)
The sheer scale and weight of bureaucracy behind which all sorts of public and private organizations hide to avoid divulging information and data which has been paid for by the tax payer is truly Kafkaesque.
Not to mention the amount of money it wastes and that's just in the UK. God knows how much dosh the EU gobbles up in Brussels.
PeterJ, "Sorry, rethink; comment needs more consideration."
We should all think that way, more often.
Perhaps the Turkish military recognised that the will of the people was demonstrated in "fair as possible elections".
I don't think Hosni Mubarak has ever bothered with more than an international PR game to prove otherwise. His friends, who are slowly deserting him now, never complained much when he rigged elections during the last thirty years.
What a great moment in human history. The neocons are being ousted. This is a time to be political. In that sense, Hank was entirely right as so often. This is not a moment for chit chat but for action of *any* kind (and we live in such a different world to 20 years ago, my goodness).
We might end up having to thank Tunisia (once again, since 'they' helped cause the downfall of the Roman Empire) for challenging what are conventionally as the neocons in post-colonial Africa and the ME and hopefully here, too, if we can make this work.
Hank, you are half-right as to why I stopped posting here nearly two years ago. Partly because of the banality of it all, partly because of personal reasons to posters (which now seem irrelevant and uninteresting).
This place stands and falls by its actions. This is a moment of action and I'm afraid to say supporters of neocons (for want of a better word) should not be welcomed as equally relevant.
Let's face it, if this were Egypt your PeterBrackens would be ordering the battering of us all with batons, carried out by your Pauls and NapKaramazovs.
"Let's face it, if this were Egypt your PeterBrackens would be ordering the battering of us all with batons, carried out by your Pauls and NapKaramazovs. "
I'm sorry Olching, is this the pinnacle of the intellectual left, baseless ad homs.
Have you ever thought about those policemen who are on the wrong side of such revolutions? It's you guys who defend the establishment and ask 'contrarian' questions on Israel 'right to be exist'. Someone does the battering in such countries and the pendant to them are amongst us - always.
@Olching: "Let's face it, if this were Egypt your PeterBrackens would be ordering the battering of us all with batons, carried out by your Pauls and NapKaramazovs"
Oh shit I really do make a point of not getting involved in other people's spats for the simple reason that anyone on this site is more than capable of defending themselves but that is out of order Olching. You may have a point about Bracken but not Paul or Nap.
"The regime dies, however, if Tank Commander refuses to run over Tank Man."
Well, either the world is moving forward, or there are still isolated cases of heroic humanitariansim.
"Those who think that there is nothing for dictators to gain from the Web because they shut it down during protests have a naive view of modern authoritarianism."
Yeah, best for them that they figured out you can't really shut down the web - ways and means to pass information will always be faster than any government can prevent, as they were in 1789.
I don't prove myself to Hank; he is a friend of mine.
NapK put a lot of effort into arguing some neocon pro-Israeli nonsense. He is the policeman to PeterBracken's ideology.
On Paul, I am happy to be called out. I was just googling for evidence of my vociferous assertions and find none. I must be mistaking him with someone else.
I apologise, in that case, unreservedly, but will leave my posts up as half of them are right (vis-a-vis PB and NapK).
As I said, apologies to Paul. A bad mistake. The rest stands.
"This is not a moment for chit chat but for action of *any* kind"
Damn straight.
Just got of the phone to my buddy in Cairo. His sister's upstairs, while him and groups of twenty-five or so neighbours litter the street outside, every few hundred yards. waiting til dawn, armed with iron bars and rocks to prevent that great function of social upeaval - looting - inflicting on their loved ones, their safety and their possessions.
The army are finally getting near their part of town, but they've heard gunshots, very near-by, all night. It's about 2 in the morning.
I'm out a lot engaged in "activism" these days. Whence - and WTF - attacking Paul, Olching ? What the FUCK was that bullshit.
"Action of any kind" that doesn't involve solidarity with people a fucking rizlas difference to you on 99% of issues eh ? Fucking ego-wank that is. Olching smashed it. Oh how cool. Get fucking out of here you waste of space. Oh I'm too cool for the fucking Untrusted. Oh oh oh oh oh. Get over youself ya big tube.
Neocon my fucjking arse. All I ever wanted to say that the first step in any peace process would be to recognise a state whose existence is mandated by the UN. But that is not important.
How fucking dare you though, accuse me of being a neocon. The developments in Egypt are a positive situation, not the bloodhshed obviously, but the chance that the people might choose to have control over their affairs and be rid of the kleptocracy running their country.
I have always made my voice known against the machinations of the neocons, in Ukraine, in Georgia, with their installed puppets and astroturf revolutions I have been critiscing, on the Iraq and Afghan crusades I have been critiscing them, I have always been critiscing the US political/oligarchic setup where there are two political parties that are 95% similar in thrall to vested interests.
Yes, Bitters and Paul completely fucked myself, so yet again muchos apologies...but then Paul and Peter..so similar in name but not in opinion. Sorry, Paul. That was uncalled for and simply ludicrous on my behalf.
Anyway, let me continue my rant: What's your opinion on this ME development?
NapK, I wouldn't dare call you a neocon. I called you the pliceman's baton to PeterBracken's neocon ideology (not even the policeman!), which is far more humiliating.
Olching; if you refer to Egypt, then my opinion is that if Mubarak is not on the next plane out, then he should be. Accompanied by the heads of the secret police. For the rest, I don't know enough about Egyptian politics to suggest what form of Government will emerge in the short term. I hope that the Egyptian people get the outcome they need.
The US and Israel should keep well out of it; Obama's already made a false step in response to Mubarak's TV address, and Netanyahu's been wise in ordering his ministers to shut up after one of the nutters in the cabinet (no shortage there) told Time that the Arabs wouldn't be ready for democracy for another generation.
Is that enough for now, or can I just start batoning you right away?
Bitters, by the way, I too know people in Cairo, but haven't been able to get in touch with them. Worried but at the same time exhilarated.
Leni, ElBaradei will not take over, even though he is crucial for getting Mubarak out. It might be something/someone new and not of the Islamist kind predicted by neocons (if the Muslim Brotherhood have a say in the matter it will be as a representative body in a coalition of sorts, if at all).
And yes Leni, let's hope they end the crime that is Gaza.
PeterJ, the US should of course make a clear statement against this dictator, but they won't as he is still their mate (but only just). In the same way, he is also Israel's mate (but only just).
My hope is that this revolution spreads to Israel and ousts the Zionist right-wingers. One can only hope.
Paul, just reading through my first two comments. Knowing I didn't mean those comments for you makes me doubly embarrassed (but at least my mate NapK got to read them!).
i have no expectation of the MB taking power - no evidence to suggest the people want them. They are being portrayed as the ghost at the feast by some to try to strengthen opposition to the revolution.
All the signs are that the army will support the people - Mubarak will go.
Don't worry about it.I'll delete my posts so it will like the exchange never happened.Misunderstandings are a fact of life online and as far as i'm concerned we're cool.
@Olching: you would get respect on this site for admitting you fucked up with your arguements. Nowt wrong with that..we all make a tit of ourselves sometimes....the trick is to stop digging!
Olching, I hope you're right about the US doing the right thing in the end. One possibility I read from a US source is that there's behind-the-scenes US pressure on the Egyptian army top brass to stay out of it, using the military aid as a lever. There's a lot of bet hedging going on, but if Mubarak flies out I don't think that the US won't call for his reinstatement.
My own preference in Israel would be for an election to get the right wingers out, but a few street mobilisations couldn't hurt their either.
I won't delete my posts, so no need to delete yours. The resolution is apparent.
Checkhov, please read my posts. My arguments stand, it's just that I got the wrong name (Paul) on PeterB and NapK I feel I am absolutely right, or are you going to surprise us with neocon aboutface? Thought not.
@PeterJ
Excellent. Stay on *that* side of the argument vis-a-vis Israel. No need to defend its genocidal policies as in the past. It's about humanity and you seem articulate enough to comprehend this.
Olching, I very much doubt that I've defended 'genocidal policies' of any kind, anywhere. Perhaps we could have a debate about Israel from first principles sometime.
There is still a Left in Israel - currently silenced and under pressure.
The fall of Mubarak will shake things up in Israel and possibly bring the Right down. It will be interesting to see Obama's reaction to things in Israel in relation to changes in Egypt.
Some unrest in Jordan too - will this escalate is next thing to watch.
@Olching: "Checkhov, please read my posts. My arguments stand, it's just that I got the wrong name (Paul) on PeterB and NapK I feel I am absolutely right, or are you going to surprise us with neocon aboutface? Thought not. "
Err...so I'm a "neo-con" am I? Where on earth did you get that notion from?
The Israeli left isn't silenced - silencing an Israeli is never easy! - but yes, it's under pressure and politically weak in Knesset terms after the near collapse of the Labour party. There are still enough balances in the system to stop the crazier law proposals being enacted, though.
"The fall of Mubarak will shake things up in Israel and possibly bring the Right down."
He's been their ally for thirty years, Leni. I hope I'm wrong, but I honestly can't see how if the Egyptians get a truly elected voice, it will be one to please the Israeli government.
Olching, I always thought you were a total gent and was surpised to se you laying in to Paul like that. No-one does that shit. Anyways, all squared away.
What part of town are your pals ? Mine's in heleopolis, where his family's lived for twenty years or so, but are Cairo born and bred.
The big news, which is being kept totally out of international reporting as far as I can see, is that "New Cairo" the gated city several miles East into the desert and connected by a new motorway and has dedicated armed guards at evey entrance point, and has billions of tons of Nile water diverted to it (from Cairo) every year so that the ex-pat middle classes may have lawns and US style shopping mals, is under siege. Many inghabitants have left in the last 48 hrs, and plasma tvs etc are being trucked away...
You have to bear in mind that Cairo only has the infrastructure to support 1, maybe 1.5million people, yet has 20million inhabitants, and it is widely acknowledged there that street kids are abducted as part of the live human organ industry...
You only have to go there and drive around the city orbital at dusk to see what a chronically, truly gargantuan enterprise their economy is, but based on inhuman hours, less than subsistance wages, and with absolutely jack shit safeguarding. They try to make nothing into something; while Mubarak and his lackeys have thrust in their faces for decades an insistance on paying a fiver just to get through a pointless road block; an unecessary checkpoint, a ruthless beating up for the insoussiance of going to the shops... every single day of their lives... no wonder they're going fucking mental. The whole regime has been untenable for years. And what do we get on CiF ? Why the "tipping culture" is letting the place down. Assholes.
Chekhov strikes me as a totally sound bloke and i think i can safely say there's absolutely nothing neo-con about him.Ditto Peter Jackson.And as far as charlie is concerned i personally believe people should make some allowance for the fact he's 22.Others here disagree with me on that but that's what i think!
I just heard one of those expats interviewed on the radio, saying that she hoped that nice Mr Mubarak would stay in charge, because he was such a man of peace.
Then they interviewed a guy on the street with his neighbours, defending their houses from looters and, he said, prisoners released from the jails.
"Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than when they are convinced beyond doubt that they are right"
See below! and above!
"Checkhov, please read my posts. My arguments stand, it's just that I got the wrong name (Paul) on PeterB and NapK I feel I am absolutely right, or are you going to surprise us with neocon aboutface? Thought not."
My thoughts on anything move from the premise that I know fuck all and neither does anyone else! It might be a flawed stratgegy but it works for me!
there are certainly some on the Left in Israel who feel they are being silenced - the pressure to conform to the right wing expectations is very strong.
Yes, they do feel that they're being silenced. And they make a great deal of noise about the silencing, from the pages of Ha'aretz via the offices of their NGOs to the wider world. If it wasn't for all the shouting about being silenced, we wouldn't even know about it!
Peter, some confusion over my term "ex-pat". I meant, middle class Egyptians who have moved to the gated city.
Not "foreigners".
(I see where this may have caused some confusion - being as I are, half Cornish, I call half the cunts who live In Cronwall "ex-pats" because they arrived from the big cities beyond the county; we are all, of course "English")
Paul An unexpected delight. I have spent half my adult life acively hating the Beutiful South; the nagging doubt was that along the line there may have been something useful amongst the middle class drek. Point scoreD, and I salute you.
Ah, OK, got it now. The only British expats I used to know who lived in Cairo were in Heliopolis, I think - is there a particular area for non-Egyptian ex-pats?
PeterJ Expats ? Yeh, sure - riverside, near the big hotels. Two or three districts.
I mean, the life you can have in that city is amazing if you have no scruples. And another part of WHAT WE DON'T HEAR -is that the ruling elite have been for years engaging people in sex-parties the like of which if you google it you would be underinformed.
I mean FULL. FUCKING. ON. PISS-ON-CALIFORNIAN PORN.
But then so is the Middle East rife with such stuff.
This is where I find it so hilarious when relitavists parp out about the "protection" Islamist dress codes offer their bitches. Give me a FUCKING BREAK. There is more filth, porn and total degradation going on in mainstream Middle Eastern countries than we dare believe possible in blighty. They love the porn, the whoring and the shut-the-fuck-up, it's aman thing. THEY. LOVE. IT.
@Sheff:
ReplyDeleteThanks for the link to that petition. An obscene situation -- to ruin a woman's life because she was trying to give her children the best education she could. So many things wrong with the notion that what she did cost that school district in any way. Schools receive federal funds on a per capita basis -- so her children's attendance in their district brought them additonal federal money. Her father is a taxpayer within that district and, therefore, supports that school district financially, so they received as much local tax support from him as they do the parents of their other students.
Even if they felt the need to punish her in some way, I'm sure that they didn't have to give her a criminal record over it, thereby preventing her from ever becoming a teacher. This at a time when many people are leaving teaching and school districts are having a hard time finding qualified teachers.
Sickening. Just fucking sickening.
Sheffpixie said...
ReplyDeleteSomeone should publish the Collected Wisdom of His Grace.
We could ask bitey - chances are he'll have it all archived already.
Sadly my only quote from the 13thDuke was from December 2009, about his claim that I had a some kind of preferential treatment from the CiF moderators, after Hank was moaning that he's been banned and I hadn't.
I think you'll find that because BTH has defended Brooks, Barbara Ellen and the other crackpot feminist articles on CiF he has what in Monoply is termed a 'Get out of Jail free card.'
Sadly not the most reliable predictor of events. I was banned the same month.
But then some of you will be well aware of that.
It's interesting that Cameron and Osborne - a couple of sleek and pampered little mummies' boys - are trying to play the thuggish hard-men.
ReplyDeleteCould it be that they are trying to imitate the tough-as-old-boots charade of Mrs Thatcher to hide the fact that they "don't do" ideas or thinking?
When Mrs Thatcher sold off public utilities and operations in order that we could all pay more for a worse service, so that directors of the shiny new commercial companies could get rich quick, at least there was the pretence and clumsy hugger-mugger that it was a conventional transaction in which those entities changed hands for money.
In the Dave new world of the Three Stooges, business has gone topsy-turvey. It is now like going into your local corner-shop and taking a loaf, a newspaper and a bottle of milk from the shelves, going to the till and asking for forty fags and a bottle of whisky and the assistant saying:
"OK. That's £25...so, I'll give you...um...a tenner for the lot."
"Nah, sorry, mate. I can only take this lot off your hands for £18 and even then, I'm robbing myself."
"I could run to fifteen, but no more."
"All right, then. Give us your money, but only because I am in a rush."
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/2011/01/28/tories-to-offer-private-health-care-firms-500m-bung-for-nhs-work-115875-22880671/
PRIVATE health firms are set for a half-billion-pound “bung” from the Tory-led Government for taking work away from the NHS.
A report says they should get 14% more than health service providers – for giving patients the same treatment.
Critics suggest rewarding private health care bosses with taxpayers’ cash is a form of payback for the £750,000 they have poured into Tory party coffers.
The proposed increase would have been worth £478million extra to the private health care industry last year alone, as it picked up £3.4billion in public funds.
And news of it came as a Tory candidate confirmed what we all suspect and declared the NHS “will not recover”.
The Tory-led Government claims all it wants is for private firms and charities to be able to compete fairly.
RIP NHS
Not even flogged off in a dodgy deal.
Just handed over with a dowry to be gang-banged by Dave's mates.
Just another perk of the free market, though, eh?
Atoms
ReplyDeleteChuffin' 'ell, that's unbelievable. Haven't got time this morning to go through the impact impact assessment docs which are here, but here's a snippet:
"Similarly, given the structural changes, NHS staff may be less focused on patient care during the transition. As outlined within the costs section, some of this would be incurred anyway due to the reduction in the staff numbers associated with the reduction in administrative spending. However, those staff most affected are not those who are involved directly with patient care".
And:
ReplyDelete"The costs above are the redundancy and non-redundancy costs associated with the abolition of PCTs and SHAs. The costs vary according to the number of staff that transfer from PCTs and SHAs to GP consortia and the NHS Commissioning Board, as set out in the coordinating document".
'The costs above' are £949m (lowest estimate); £1465m (highest estimate) and £1201m (best estimate).
Gulp ....
Tony Blair's evidence to the Chilcot Inquiry in full:
ReplyDelete"I received information from an impeccable source, Mr White-Beardyman of Cloud. He said:
"'Everything thou thinketh ith the bithneth.'
"He wanted me to be a Prophet. Then, after successfully completing the training during a trial period, I would move up to the position of Messiah.
"Then he was going to adopt me.
"He told me. He said:
"'If I ruled the world, ev'ry day would be the first day of spring...
If I ruled the world, ev'ry man would be as free as a bird,
Ev'ry voice would be a voice to be heard.'
"Obviously, the voices to be heard could not include those of anyone in the Cabinet.
"Mr White-Beardyman told me to keep our special friendship a secret.
"Er, that's it.
Oh, look, I've got to go.
It's Tony's tan top-up time."
Thanks, MsChin.
ReplyDeleteI should get on, too.
Just time for this:
ReplyDeletehttp://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/banksandfinance/8289978/Council-to-ask-bankers-to-give-up-bonuses-to-plug-budget-black-hole.html
Council to ask bankers 'to give up bonuses to plug budget black hole'
A council is considering asking its wealthiest residents to part with five per cent of their annual bonuses to cover a £100 million spending gap.
Bankers and lawyers are believed to be high on the list of potential targets of a begging letter aiming to persuade them to make a donation.
The proposal, which is in its infancy, would help relieve some of the stress placed on council services and could mean some services which are currently facing the axe, such as libraries, survive.
Camden council in north London is proposing sending the open letter to selected residents. The scheme would be anonymous, completely voluntary and rely entirely on individuals’ generosity.
..........
Meanwhile, shares in Cap'n Hand, the traditional begging-bowl manufacturer, have soared by 300 percent since the ConDem regime clasped power.
You want the evidence Lieutenant Bitey?
ReplyDeleteYou want the truth? YOU CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
Son, we live in a world that has creeps. And those creeps have to be guarded against by men with integrity. And who’s that? You? You, Lt Bitey? I have greater integrity than you can possibly fathom. You weep for your CiF banning and you curse women. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know: your banning, while tragic, probably saved thousands of women BTLers from harassment.
And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves you from yourself...You don't want the truth. Because deep down, in places you don't talk about at parties, you want my integrity. You need my integrity.
Atoms
ReplyDeleteThanks for the daily digest of doom.
Your Grace
Ik neem aan dat onze huis-sukkel geen Nederlands kent.
Ik zei gisteren op de thread dat hij is angrily wanking en plein public, een uitdrukking die wij aan U te danken hebben. Daarna was hij weg.
Ik voeg nog toe dat ik altijd met veel interesse kennis neem van Uw berichten.
Hi folks. for anyone interested in Egypt, the rolling coverage on Al Jazeera is excellent.
ReplyDeletelink
Graag gedaan medve.
ReplyDeleteMet bitey het is zo makkeljk maar hij is een draaideurcriminal. Toen ik hem las, ik geloof dat ik een misselijk wordt...
Beste wensen aan u en jij familie in Hongarije.
Scherfig thanks for that, I've got it on now.
Er zijn internet vertaalhulpmiddelen ...
ReplyDeleteAtoms
ReplyDeleteJawel, ik weet echter zeker dat de nuance van Defiant Social Engineering Laboratories uitingen niet wordt doorgegeven via dergelijke hulpmiddelen.
(UT-compatible English translation provided on request)
Scherf - have been following Al Jazeera - much the best coverage and you get to hear more voices from the region.
ReplyDeleteRight - must get boots on and get off to the cuts demo....Egypt it ain't...but one must do one's duty.
medve/Your Grace
ReplyDeleteعرض فقط من هنا
medve
ReplyDeleteThere was a case during a Gulf war when the encryption and encoding devices failed to work.
Someone in the Gulf spoke Welsh, as did someone back here, so they communicated in the open on the assumption that nobody listening in was likely to speak Welsh.
There was also the vessel in distress in the English Channel, with a crew who only spoke Chinese. The coastguard could not make sense of them, nor they of him.
A man working in the local Chinese takeaway was sent for and everything went swimmingly thereafter.
Sheff Good luck at the demo.
ReplyDeleteDay before yesterday very good press-freedom demonstration in Budapest. Very impressive, peaceful, great people (several thousand). Last week's demo was ten-thousand people
attended by
ReplyDelete염소에 응시 남자
ReplyDeleteAtoms
ReplyDeleteEU languages
I am no friend of Fortress Europe, nor have i any illusions about the EU not being primarily driven by huge economic interests.
Nevertheless i find the idea of French and German bureaucrats weaving their mining and steel industries together to such an extent that neither country would be able to produce a single tank without the other knowing, and thus avoiding another future horrible war, delightful.
I also think that the loads of different languages and attitudes will paradoxically turn out to be advantages in the long run.
dream on medve.
Ek wonder of Duke and medve sal verstaan as ek in Afrikaans praat? Ek sal 'n eksperiment probeer. Ek verstaan Nederlands as dit geskryf is, maar sukkel om dit te praat, want die uitspreking is anders.
ReplyDeleteBitey sal miskien nie die Nederlands verstaan nie, maar ek voorspel dat die Google Vertaal funksie sal hom uithelp.
O, ja, en ek gaan nie demo toe vandag nie. Nie omdat ek nie omgee nie, of ek iets meer belangrik doen nie, maar omdat ek net twintig pund in my bankrekening het. Is dit nie lekker om so middelklas te wees?
ReplyDeleteMeerkatjie
ReplyDeleteI kan Afrikaans makkelijk lezen. Relaxed gesprek kan ik volgen. Ik heb in Kaapstad en Maseru gewerkt in 2000. Uitgezonden door de fusie van de twee krachtigste anti-apartheid organisaties van Nederland.
Atoms
ReplyDeleteBook or film? Perchance drama or charades?
medve
ReplyDeleteYes, you could be right that the EU, against all the odds, ends up achieving that for which it was notionally devised.
Strange that we drew straight lines on maps in the past, ignoring social and cultural affinities and divisions and histories, and now try to unify the most linguistically, culturally and geographically diverse region on earth into a universal Euroblend.
I always thought the primary purpose was for bureaucrats to filch public money collusively and with impunity and operate as the PR machine for political criminality but maybe it has other functions.
"Movodsholoss i gimd sho idoi og gdomch imd Godmim budoiucdiss doivimg shoid mimimg imd ssool imdussdios sogoshod so such im oxsoms shis moishod coumsdy dould bo iblo so pdoduco i simglo simk dishous sho oshod kmodimg, imd shus ivoidimg imoshod gusudo hoddiblo did, dolighsgul."
Ja, ek kan ook nederlands verstaan as die mense stadig praat. Ek dink ook dat my Deuts dit 'n bietjie makliker maak. 'n Ou nederlandse man wat ons geken het het altyd gese dat Akfrikaans net 'Kombuis Nederlands' was. Kaapstad is mooi, maar nooit so mooi soos KwaZulu Natal. :-)
ReplyDeleteEek, dit was a goeie oefening om in Afrikaans te skryf. Ek het besef skielik hoe verroes my Afrikaans is! Ek moet meer praat, anders gaan ek vergeet!
Atoms
ReplyDelete;-)
Your ability to produce copious quantities of quality text never ceases to amaze me.
medve
ReplyDeleteCharades, definitely.
Meerkatjie
ReplyDeleteIk had vroeger een afschuw van Arikaans wegens het vooroordeel dat het "de taal van apartheid" was. In Kaapstad heb ik gezien dat het toch anders ligt. (gelukkig).
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMedve, I'd better switch back to English as I guess I'm being a bit rude, indulging my need to speak a language so few people know. Afrikaans was definitely always seen as the language of apartheid, but it was always more complicated than that. It's spoken more fluently by most poorer black people than English is (although I think probably for most black Afrikans, English is emotionally the preferred western language). But as you've undoubtedly noticed in Cape Town, most of the 'Coloured' people of South Africa speak Afrikaans as a first language. I think there's a growing affection for the language in post-apartheid SA. It's got a fantastic gutteral quality, an earthiness that's about it being a lived language. there are things I want to say that just don't translate into English - like 'bevok' (never as rude in Afrikaans as 'fucked' is) 'verkramp' (now isn't that better than 'conservative'?), 'gatvol', 'eina' and 'lekker'. It's capacity to convey the texture of emotion is far better than English. I think this is why South African English is so littered with fragments of Afrikaans.
ReplyDeleteIn other news, I have a pet theory that klavier was a major in a past life.
And what happened to smtx? Did they spontaneously combust? Their profile appears to have been killed.
Sorry, I know this is all trivial. It's about the level my brain's reached this morning - a bit of gratuitous insult and a load of fluff.
Atomboy, I did very much love your earlier post.
I can understand all those posts, but it takes me ages to read them and for my brain to work them out. After nearly 3 decades I suppose that I am no longer bilingual! Though when really rattled I tend to swear in Afrikaans. I loved in District 9 when the "fokken bliksem" was uttered, I say that a lot!
ReplyDeleteI dunno about Klavier being a major, there's not quite the same sharpness? The subject matter, and style seem similar, but...
Atoms
ReplyDeleteI always thought the primary purpose was for bureaucrats to filch public money collusively and with impunity and operate as the PR machine for political criminality but maybe it has other functions.
Sure. Like i said, huge economic interests. I haven't been in all 31 countries (EU-27 + Iceland, Lichtenstein, Norway, and Switzerland), but i have family and friends in about twelve different countries. From the point of view of personal contacts and travel things have improved over time, at the cost of soaring surveillance and draconian European Arrest Warrant type erosion of personal liberties and privacy.
dream on medve
Meerkatije
ReplyDeleteVery true. Quote from such a "coloured" person:
We, who have had no history since the seventeenth century, will have one now, spoken in Afrikaans
Mamamamamamama-maaa-maaa, ik ben verlieft op John Travolta!
ReplyDelete(Yeah, well, I only spent two months in Terneuzen back in '79, working in the Dow Chemical plant)
Een frikandel speciaal en een frites met mayonnaise, alsjeblieft. En een pils.
timboktutu
ReplyDeleteUse it or lose it i'm afraid.
Fokken in Dutch is breed as in animal husbandry, but opgefokt is very upset and aggressive. As a noun it would be foresails in the plural.
Spike
ReplyDeleteOh for gawd's sake! It's getting frightfully common to be able to do the dutch here ;-)
En proost voor die pils
ReplyDeleteFunny, I thought katie60 was the one with the Bracken touch. The same sesquipedalian sneering and identical ad homs.
ReplyDeleteI quote:
The surreal quality of the debate you're having with Cif's deluded browbeaters is par for the course on these pages.
The inability of supposedly smart individuals to distinguish between suicide bombers and professional soldiers is just flat-out stupid. The inability to distinguish between the actions and motives of suicide bombers and professional soldiers is flat-out pernicious.
And the combination of pseudo and ignorant comment, laced with the likes of meerkatjie's ridiculously laboured condescension and backtothepoint's infantile allegiance to communism, is flat-out blogging fuckwittery.
Now doesn't that sound Brackish?
it's opgevok in Afrikaans - but that's more like 'fucked up' in English - messed up.
ReplyDeleteMeerkatjie
ReplyDeleteFikken, fokken, fukken; usually clear from the context.
It has been said that fuck may have been a frisian influence in English, likewise cheese and yacht.
Watching Al Jazeera English - Incredible pictures protesters shaking hands with soldiers.
ReplyDeletesome very good interviews.
Need to watch the BBC news now!
BBC 'The violence continues' while showing people peacefully walking along the road and chatting to the soldiers!
ReplyDeleteMontanaWildhack
ReplyDeleteSadly klavier4 has been banned from CiF, (was 'syntax' a hidden message to the mods BB?) so this exchange will need to continue here, rather than be completed there. Anyone interested in free speach might like to post a note informing WDYWTTA readers.
Montana wrote:
Are you deliberately twisting what she said or are you just too thick to understand her point? Which is not that serving soldiers would, could or should opt to stay at home with their needlepoint and/or knitting, but rather that if -- as you claimed --
the first intent of conventional military personnel was to survive
they never would have joined the military in the first place. She is trying to point out to you that people who join the military are aware when they sign up that they may die in service. That fact renders your assertion ludicrous.
Well I might be too thick to understand Montana so as a member of the teaching profession do you have a self-administered test I can do that might help us answer the question?
Spike
ReplyDeleteIt lacks the economy of cuntishness that I recognise. It does however convey a similar intent to hunt down and then maul a decent turn of phrase, in the name of free market fundamentalism.
Meerkatjie,
ReplyDeleteI won't write in Dutch but that's really interesting seeing Afrikaans written down, I could understand you no problem at all. I've never really looked at Afrikaans, all I know is that it is "Old Dutch" and has a lot more similarities with Flemish than 'modern' Dutch.
Do you use the hard 'g' in Afrikaans? Or is it the softer Flemish version?
During last years world cup I was surprised to see that none of the Dutch reporters spoke Afrikaans with the South Africans they interviewed, it was always in English.
The best of meerkatje:
ReplyDeletePerhaps if you showed a spark of comprehension there'd be no need to labour to explain such basic concepts to you.
Could you elaborate this soundbite with something that approximates reason and argument?
I'm sorry, but anyone who imagines war is not ideological is either a bit thick, a bit ignorant, or a bit disingenuous. Which is it in your case?
. I think I can manage them, bless their little socks, with or without the help of vitamins..
Do try to stick to debating what people actually say. I find it makes for more interesting discussion.
Look, all the little worms are crawling out of their holes?
But you'll forgive me for saying that, realistically, I don't really give a fuck what you think. .
It's called 'the internet'. You might have heard of it.
Could you keep your pig ignorant views to yourself, or take them somewhere where they're likely to be received with the approval you obviously crave?
And that's only in the last couple of days - there's a veritable treasure-chest of equally rational and reasoned 'interesting discussion' from meerkatje if you care to look. I finally understand why such a monotone and patronising poster is admired by so many here. Such wit and intellectual brilliance is a rare commodity. It's a shame about the total lack of substance.
And this tickled me.
ReplyDeletein last week's Highland league football fixture between Brora Rangers and Keith, Keith won 3-0.
The goalscorers were Sean Keith (x2) and Cammy Keith.
@Luke
ReplyDeleteIf you have no idea of what context is, you too could keep your pig ignorance to yourself. I'd have no trouble producing a string of nasty little quotes from you, but frankly, I wouldn't waste my time.
Brilliant post from OZKT29B, worth posting here:
ReplyDeleteA park. Meerkatjie sits on a blanket strewn with various picnic items. She is playing on a Nintendo DS. Klavier enters from stage right and sits on the blanket.
Meerkatjie: There is absolutely no difference between a suicide bomber and a member of any other armed force. You know why? Because if soldiers wanted to survive, they’d stay at home and do some knitting.
Klavier: Hmmmm...not really, because most armed forces go to great lengths to ensure that their soldiers don’t die. Soldiers may accept a risk of death, but they don’t set out with the intention of dying. So really they’re nothing like suicide bombers.
Meerkatjie: Look, clearly you’re incredibly thick, but bless you for trying to understand my argument about the knitting. I really appreciate your effort dearie, but perhaps we could talk about this when you have stopped being so incredibly thick? Thanks. Bye now.
Klavier: Hang on, wait a minute...
Katie60 walks on from stage left and sits on a nearby bench.
Katie60: Klavier, I wouldn’t bother. She won’t listen to you, she’ll just keep making random supercilious, insulting and condescending remarks until you get frustrated and leave.
Klavier: Ok, but...I was just saying...
Meerkatjie: Aw bless, Katie60 is saying stuff now! Look at her, saying words like a real person! Well, you two are just adorable, but I’m afraid I’m only interested in, you know, real debate and stuff? One day you’ll understand.
Audience [en masse]: Oh you cannot be fucking serious!
Anyway, I'm not going to let anyone spoil my mood. I've got the pizzas and booze in and mates are arriving later to see United smash the Scummers, so I'm anticipating a very pleasant evening.
ReplyDelete@Spike.
ReplyDeleteMade I chuckle.
Spike, when you refer to 'a string of nasty little quotes from you' I really hope you're not implying that meerkatje has ever been 'nasty' to her intellectual inferiors. That wasn't what I was implying at all - I was only giving a few recent examples of her inimitable rational 'debating' style.
ReplyDeleteLogic and reason are wonderful things and context is everything.
And this one from Katie60
ReplyDeleteKlavier
The surreal quality of the debate you're having with Cif's deluded browbeaters is par for the course on these pages.
The inability of supposedly smart individuals to distinguish between suicide bombers and professional soldiers is just flat-out stupid. The inability to distinguish between the actions and motives of suicide bombers and professional soldiers is flat-out pernicious.
And the combination of pseudo and ignorant comment, laced with the likes of meerkatjie's ridiculously laboured condescension and backtothepoint's infantile allegiance to communism, is flat-out blogging fuckwittery.
Flat out pernicious - I do like that sentiment.
Oh look. Luke and Bitey playing really nicely together. It's good to find friends, boys. Kindred spirits, even.
ReplyDelete"Logic and reason are wonderful things and context is everything."
Which in a nutshell is pretty much the point of every one of those quotes you've just chucked out there, Luke.
Do you have a day job? I know you're frightfully political and everything, but do you actually do anything other than sitting on the internet telling people like BB and I how crap we are?
And Bitey, Oz's post might have been funny if his premise was right. As it is, I didn't actually say the stuff he's claiming in his opening paragraph, which was also the substance of my query to Klavier, who had similarly decided that I'd said something I hadn't in fact said.
ReplyDeleteMontana's summary of that discussion is rather more accurate. Why don't you cut and paste that too, there's a good chap?
Duke, the g in Afrikaans is a bit like the 'ch' in loch lomond, but slightly harder, a bit less sibilant. More like clearing your throat.
ReplyDeleteGood luck with the demo sheff and mschinIf you haven't already seen it you might want to read THIS BLOG.Direct action can have an impact and amongst other things has succeeded in getting an ATOS medical examination centre in Leeds closed down for the day.It's great that ATOS and A4E are being targetted this way.
ReplyDeleteDunno what reputation the police in Sheffield have but hope you don't have any problems with them.Good luck!
SO bitey, you were Klavier. I had my suspicions. YOur new nick held for a while, there were no incidences of 'in February 2009 you said X'.
ReplyDeleteOther than that, all power to the people of Egypt, all power to the people demonstrating in the UK.
I can't be inovlved in both becuase of OU work. Obviously I could never be involved in the Egyptian protsts, what I mean is I can't follow the liveblogs and updates. Call me old fashioned, but in some ways I prefer the fixed evening news reports, some of us just don't have the time to follow a story as it happens.
Languages- in addition to Russian I am somehwhat slowly learning German, which I hope will give me more flexibility in getting the hell out of Britain in the coming years.
Meerkatjie
ReplyDeleteBut without spitting on the other party.
I seem to have developed an intimate relationship with the spam folder.If anyone with admin privileges is about could they please retrieve my latest post.Cheers!
ReplyDeleteMontanaWildhack wrote:
ReplyDeleteAre you deliberately twisting what she said or are you just too thick to understand her point? Which is not that serving soldiers would, could or should opt to stay at home with their needlepoint and/or knitting, but rather that if -- as you claimed --
the first intent of conventional military personnel was to survive
they never would have joined the military in the first place. She is trying to point out to you that people who join the military are aware when they sign up that they may die in service. That fact renders your assertion ludicrous.
And now Montana you really are showing your ignorance of the UK armed services. It might have been true in the days of conscription that the loss of life of the foot soldier and as recently as The Great War, of the Officer Class was considered of less importance to the most senior army personnel than it might have been, had they had more concern for the welfare of those who actually did the fighting.
However since the UK has had totally volunteer, professional armed services, a major stratregic concern has been to minimise casualties and it's a strategy that's been remarkably successful. Construction, agriculture and extraction industries all have higher fatality rates than the army despite the fact that these industies are covered by the Health and Safety at Work legislation.
Now this is hardly surprising given the need to make the armed services an attractive proposition to young men and women. So even before they join up, the idea that would be soldiers might stay at home with their knitting and needlepoint is as ridiculous and insulting as suggesting to would be bricklaying, quarrying and agricultural apprentices, "that they might die in service".
Of course if you opt for the fighting Corps, your risk of death and injury is higher, but so are the rewards of being part of some of the most effective combat units anywhere. And the potential for career progression is very good, so I'm told.
As opposed to "a bit pernicious" Bitey ?
ReplyDeleteSuperfluity ate my hamster.
She uses the phrase 'flat out' a lot. Needs a good copy editor.
ReplyDeleteOr a copy editor.
ReplyDeleteBitey, could you support your claims about death rates in the military vs civilian industry with recent stats please?
ReplyDeleteWell, bitey, if you didn't spend so much time with your head between your legs kissing your own arse, you might have noticed I'd already posted the katie60 drivel and commented on how Brackenesque it was. Smitten with the major as you are, I can understand you fawning and cooing over anything that looks like his work.
ReplyDeleteDo you have a day job? I know you're frightfully political and everything, but do you actually do anything other than sitting on the internet telling people like BB and I how crap we are?
ReplyDeleteIn answer to your questions, meerkatje, yes and yes. I never post from work so I don't actually post during working hours. How do you manage to find the time to post so many comments telling everybody else how crap they are? You are quite impressively prolific - perhaps you don't have a day job?
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDelete@Duke
ReplyDeleteThank for the league updates. Welcome antidote to some rather uninspired and general uptightery.
MontanaWildhack
ReplyDeleteBy the way, you seem to be rather exercised about the affront to the professionalism of the British armed forces that you claim this is. Funny.
Because your claim that their first intent is their own survival sounds to me quite a bit like a statement that British soldiers are self-serving cowards who care more about their individual survival than they do about fighting for whatever cause they have been asked to fight for.
You might like to spend a little time examining the strategic and the tactical approaches to minimising casualties in military operations Montana. Then you might realise that while the former relies increasingly on advanced technology, intelligence and planning to minimize casualties, the latter relies on taking the fight to the enemy. This is why the highly trained British infantry units are capable, not only of defending themselves and minimising casualties but at the same time taking on and defeating numercially superior enemies, through a long standing tradition of courage in battle.
As such I think you might reconsider your accusation of "self-serving cowards", don't you think?
Now I know vitually nothing about military combat so I'm quite happy to be corrected on any of this by those who do. Shame Peter Bracken isn't around don't you think?
Brrrr...freezing on that demo. Not a bad turnout given so many have gone to Manchester and London. Have stuck a couple of pictures up. Some excellent tub thumping speeches that got the crowd whooping. Must thaw my feet out.
ReplyDeleteI have just been catching up with RapidEddie's link to the "On Being Called a Cunt by Laurie Penny" thread, where the comments have developed into pure comedy gold. And was that our own Montana joining in? See for yourself here.
ReplyDeleteMeerkatjie
ReplyDeleteMontana's summary of that discussion is rather more accurate. Why don't you cut and paste that too, there's a good chap?
Glad to have obliged and you may now explain why your jibe about knitting and needlepoint, was really being supportive of those young men and women who rather than spend their youth and young adulthood on the dole, are prepared to seek a career for themselves in the relative safety of our armed services.
And for the record, I have always treated you with the greatest respect.
peterJ
ReplyDeleteHehehe...some things never change!
BacktothePoint
ReplyDeleteStill, it's very courageous of you to stand up for bitethehand. Is it the beginning of a beautiful friendship?
And equally courageous of you BTTP to continue being the moderators friend and stool pigeon in chief.
And then you out yourself in your crap anagram identity of Reikval on Whaddya at 3.36. Who are you going to blame when Reikval gets banned, you muppet?
ReplyDeleteMeerkatjie
ReplyDeleteMy basic dispute has been with the claim of primacy. I then got rather annoyed with Bitethehand / Klavier telling me I held views I hadn't expressed.
I really thought better of you Meerkatjie than to see you sink to the level of Tony Shallcross. I suppose you're going to claim the BeautifulBurnout defence of "please Miss Shallcross did it before me".
So I'm not surprised you're heading back to the sanctuary of your work.
You say in response to Fencewalker:
My basic dispute has been with the claim of primacy. I then got rather annoyed with Bitethehand / Klavier telling me I held views I hadn't expressed.
So let's dissect my original post, initially contesting Shallcross' refusal to recognise intent:
You display a stubborn insistence on refusing to recognise that the intent of the suicide bomber is quite different to that of conventional military personnel, whose first intent is to survive.
Now if you can't see that this is a statement of overall strategy for as others have pointed out, dead soldiers can no longer fight, their death is bad for morale, they are expensive, they make recruitment more difficult and most of all they are likely to leave wives and children fatherless. Individual soldiers on the other hand will have a variety of intentions ranging from the sacrifice of Private Martin Bell who defied his commanding officer, to others who might avoid risk whenever they can.
But I also went on to add the caveat about preventing soldiers and indeed politicians from taking any actions, particularly unlawful ones, that might improve their chances of survival:
And that survival means the possibility of facing international laws that govern military action and having to live with the consequences of their action. That goes for the humble foot soldier and the Commander in Chief. The war in Iraq has provided us with examples of the former and as we watch the outcome of Blair's appearances before Chilcot, to some extent even the latter.
So if you still stand by your statements about knitting and needlepoint, then I think you're the poorer for them.
Spike, you really are quite slow on the uptake sometimes.
ReplyDeleteReikval was constructed merely as a means of completing the exchange that I started with my post to kizbot on 27 January and to point out that as klavier4 had been banned, the exchange would continue here.
As and when I want to post on CiF I'll go through the rather tedious process of constructing a new identity yet again.
Afternoon all.
ReplyDeleteNo Bitey. If I had wanted to out you to the mods I would have said "Fuck off Bitey". "Syntax" was a "secret" message to you to let you know I knew who you were.
If you got yourself banned again it is prolly cost the mods have your posting style firmly imprinted on their minds, too. Your vast array of strawmen erected at every turn is hint enough.
I thought you were going to try and change it? You need to make more of an effort if you wish to passer inapercu, dear.
No hurry, bitey, no hurry. There are no anxious crowds scanning the threads, desperate for signs of their favourite poisonous little stalker.
ReplyDeleteMeerkatjie
ReplyDeleteYou asked for some stats which I have and will gladly post later today. It's 1.04am here and it'll take too long tonight to dig out the references.
passer inapercu? not me I'm totally à l'air libre
ReplyDeleteBritain's debt management industry was the subject of a crackdown yesterday, with 35 companies surrendering licences and a further 15 facing disciplinary action by the Office of Fair Trading.
ReplyDeleteThe OFT took action after issuing warnings in September to 129 firms that offer advice to people struggling with debt. There has been mounting concern at the activities of the sector at a time when family finances are under pressure from economic turmoil, rising inflation and high levels of debt built up before the financial crisis.
Above from Indy
the debt Counselling vultures finally being taken to task ? i hope some of them go to prison - I know of a family in desperate straits after guy lost his job who responded to unsolicited phone call claiming to be from gvt. department who lost everything including their home. Finished up 'owing' so called counsellors thousands.
Evening folks.
ReplyDeleteWell a funny day on CIF to be sure. Bidisha's latest rant is off the charts in stupidity, even for her.
They closed the comments at about 7.00 I guess to try and stop the shellacking she was getting.
Evening Spence.
ReplyDeleteBidisha thread is closed now? The mods took pity on us then.
Definitely been a funny day or so on CiF but nothing we haven't seen before - posts deleted and posters banished to the interweb wilderness that is not CiF.
Indeed. I can't believe they deleted my post just for calling Bidisha a grumpy wee sausage.
ReplyDeleteSurely that is nothing but verifiable fact?
Indeed, Spence - comment is free but facts are erm, sacred-ish.
ReplyDeleteLeni
Been over to the Indy but can't find the crack down to which you refer. Terrible about what happened to your friend & his family. Just one question: what took the OFT so bloody long?
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/fifty-debt-firms-to-go-as-oft-launches-crackdown-2197815.html#
ReplyDeleteMsChin
hope link works.
What took them so long is indeed the question.
there is a boost in there for the CAB debt advisory service . It is to be hoped this might help to save CAB funding - currently being eroded.
sheff
ReplyDeleteHere's your friend Mozaz: http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2011/01/472630.html
Thanks Leni
ReplyDeleteCABs are badly affected by the cuts in many areas, so yes, they may benefit from action taken against these debt sharks.
The Tories are very unhappy bunnies about the fact that so many of them went public schools is getting so much press coverage.
ReplyDeleteHello, all.
ReplyDeleteThe Egyptian military are hanging back. They would have acted by now, if they were going to. Maybe they've still got a spirit of Nasser about them... After all, Mubarak has made himself into a King Farouk wannabe... fingers crossed.
And that's not good for the Muslim Brotherhood, if it is the case. (They are not nice people.)
MsChin
ReplyDeleteGood for you for spreading out the coverage!
Habib
ReplyDeleteMubarak has appointed secret police chief as vice-president. An ominous warning. Fingers crossed for the people of Egypt.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteSorry, rethink; comment needs more consideration.
ReplyDeleteHabib
ReplyDeletei am cautiously heartened by the behaviour of the Egyptian army - still at fingers crossed stage. Too many dead and injured people already but the Egyptian people are behaving courageously.
Some suggestion that elements in the police are responsible for the trashing and looting of police stations. The picture is not clear.
the one thing certain is that Mubarak must go - his western backers must not add to the confusion.
Good piece here from MERP
ReplyDeleteDead-Enders on the Potomac
Medve
I think Suleiman knows Mubaraks secrets...he needs to be kept close. Have hopes that the army will stick with the people...but still got everything crossed. There are powerful vested interests who will be very unhappy bunnies right now. And what the fuck are the police and security services up to?
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ReplyDeleteAvaaz have got this going if you fancy signing up to it:
ReplyDeleteStand with the people of Egypt
Sheff
ReplyDeleteHave signed up for Avaaz.
It is interesting that Netanyu has forbidden his cabinet to comment on Egypt. Is he simply afraid of supporting the guy who may be the loser - keeping his options open or is there more to it ?
Israel stands to lose a lot here - the ordinary Israelis would be the losers if Israel was left stranded with no local allies - particularly if Gaza was opened up at Egyptian end.
so many millions of victims from repressive policies. Change is in the air - next chapter unknown.
Me is an extra happy man - older son and wife announced they is pregnant wi first kid......
ReplyDelete......................
I think it it is called fuck
ng chuffed
me is to be a granddad agin
it goes without saying I abandondend me 7 month booze free encounter
I am well happy ................
and a new dog on Monday
i've no basis for complaint
Leni
ReplyDeleteCould be very big changes - the Israeli angle is a concern - they wouldn't be at all happy about a more open Gaza border with Egypt if that should transpire. So many powerful interests have a big stake in what's unfolding - the lives and well being of so many people hanging in the balance. Very dangerous times.
Congratulations to the parents-to-be and the proud grandparents-to-be, deano.
ReplyDeleteAnd get back on that wagon tomorrow, you bad lad! What will Miss Heidi think if you roll up drunk?
Cheers for the good news deano
ReplyDeleteCongratulations Deano to will be parents and Grandad.
ReplyDeleteChin - I wish it was not the fact that I liked you & Sheff and PCC....
ReplyDeletebut the fact of the matter is that I do.
There are few lasses, civilised or not, that I would raise my view
but for you three
I would.
xxx.
Watched part of QI earlier.
ReplyDeleteApparently the carbon paw print of medium sized dog is the equivalent of 2 gas guzzling 4x4s - based on amount of meat they consume. Two hamsters = one large plasma screen.
Dogge will have to start getting into recycling or sumatt to offset this.
Hey Deano, congats mate.
ReplyDeleteSigned up at Avaaz. Not sure what good it will do but I'm all for solidarity with the Egyptians.
Let's just hope they don't end up with the fucking sham of a "democracy" we have to put up with.
@deano:
ReplyDeleteCONGRATULATIONS!!!!!
deano
ReplyDeletexxx
Leni
You mean that dogs are not environmentally-friendly? Dear me, what ever next ...
Thank you my young comrades - fact is I am really happy.
ReplyDeleteAnd even more so 'cos of your warm wishes.
xxxxxxxxx deano30
Good news, Deano. Cheers.
ReplyDeletemazal tov, Deano, great news in these times. Best wishes for mum, dad and little'un to be.
ReplyDeleteBTW: I've flagged this up before but it's well worth a read if you have a stomach for the consequences. ("The Silent State" by Heather Brooke)
ReplyDeleteThe sheer scale and weight of bureaucracy behind which all sorts of public and private organizations hide to avoid divulging information and data which has been paid for by the tax payer is truly Kafkaesque.
Not to mention the amount of money it wastes and that's just in the UK. God knows how much dosh the EU gobbles up in Brussels.
PeterJ,
ReplyDelete"Sorry, rethink; comment needs more consideration."
We should all think that way, more often.
Perhaps the Turkish military recognised that the will of the people was demonstrated in "fair as possible elections".
I don't think Hosni Mubarak has ever bothered with more than an international PR game to prove otherwise. His friends, who are slowly deserting him now, never complained much when he rigged elections during the last thirty years.
The reported arrival of Mubarak's sons in London - also possibly his wife - does that mean we will give him refuge sometime next week?
ReplyDelete"Maybe they've still got a spirit of Nasser about them"
ReplyDeleteRoll of a dice at the moment. Had a long chat with my pal over there earlier. Much to tell, back later to do so.
@Leni
ReplyDeleteAs long as we're not giving them dole money eh ?
Leni
ReplyDeleteWill the UK play host to Mubarak? I bloody well hope not.
Hey,
ReplyDeleteWhat a great moment in human history. The neocons are being ousted. This is a time to be political. In that sense, Hank was entirely right as so often. This is not a moment for chit chat but for action of *any* kind (and we live in such a different world to 20 years ago, my goodness).
We might end up having to thank Tunisia (once again, since 'they' helped cause the downfall of the Roman Empire) for challenging what are conventionally as the neocons in post-colonial Africa and the ME and hopefully here, too, if we can make this work.
Hank, you are half-right as to why I stopped posting here nearly two years ago. Partly because of the banality of it all, partly because of personal reasons to posters (which now seem irrelevant and uninteresting).
This place stands and falls by its actions. This is a moment of action and I'm afraid to say supporters of neocons (for want of a better word) should not be welcomed as equally relevant.
Let's face it, if this were Egypt your PeterBrackens would be ordering the battering of us all with batons, carried out by your Pauls and NapKaramazovs.
Now where on earth did Idi Amin go... hmmm...
ReplyDelete19 private planes with business people associated with Mubarak's govt have landed in Dubai ... as habib says, his 'friends' are offski.
ReplyDeleteolching
What a great moment - yes! We live in interesting times, as they say.
@Habib
ReplyDeleteThere's a piece here that seems relevant to what I've been thinking about.
I wish it was not the case ......fact is I was so pissed I fell of me intended sentence.
ReplyDeleteelse I have to say I like this space
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzdeano
And another relevant piece, I think, here.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletePeterJ
ReplyDelete'the key is to convince Tank Commander not to shoot'
Let us hope that the military do not open fire on the protesters tomorrow, as some in Egypt are suggesting.
Paul,
ReplyDeleteBlah blah blah, just keep on masturbating over Israel's bible stories.
"Let's face it, if this were Egypt your PeterBrackens would be ordering the battering of us all with batons, carried out by your Pauls and NapKaramazovs. "
ReplyDeleteI'm sorry Olching, is this the pinnacle of the intellectual left, baseless ad homs.
Well said Paul. Damn fucking straight.
ReplyDeleteAnd Olching I've supported the aspirations of the protestors in Egypt, as you can see in the post I made this afternoon.
'the key is to convince Tank Commander not to shoot'
ReplyDeleteNN
Who cares?
ReplyDeleteHave you ever thought about those policemen who are on the wrong side of such revolutions? It's you guys who defend the establishment and ask 'contrarian' questions on Israel 'right to be exist'. Someone does the battering in such countries and the pendant to them are amongst us - always.
@Olching: "Let's face it, if this were Egypt your PeterBrackens would be ordering the battering of us all with batons, carried out by your Pauls and NapKaramazovs"
ReplyDeleteOh shit I really do make a point of not getting involved in other people's spats for the simple reason that anyone on this site is more than capable of defending themselves but that is out of order Olching. You may have a point about Bracken but not Paul or Nap.
Great links, PeterJ
ReplyDelete"The regime dies, however, if Tank Commander refuses to run over Tank Man."
Well, either the world is moving forward, or there are still isolated cases of heroic humanitariansim.
"Those who think that there is nothing for dictators to gain from the Web because they shut it down during protests have a naive view of modern authoritarianism."
Yeah, best for them that they figured out you can't really shut down the web - ways and means to pass information will always be faster than any government can prevent, as they were in 1789.
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteolching, you've fallen into the trap of proving yourself to hank. How sad. How wrong.
ReplyDeleteHeyhabib,
ReplyDeleteI don't prove myself to Hank; he is a friend of mine.
NapK put a lot of effort into arguing some neocon pro-Israeli nonsense. He is the policeman to PeterBracken's ideology.
On Paul, I am happy to be called out. I was just googling for evidence of my vociferous assertions and find none. I must be mistaking him with someone else.
I apologise, in that case, unreservedly, but will leave my posts up as half of them are right (vis-a-vis PB and NapK).
As I said, apologies to Paul. A bad mistake. The rest stands.
Who have I mistaken Paul for?
ReplyDeleteBy the way, Paul, what are you views on ME developments?
ReplyDeleteolching
ReplyDeleteApology accepted and i also apologise for what i've said to you.We don't know each other yet so let's start again with a clean slate.:-)
"This is not a moment for chit chat but for action of *any* kind"
ReplyDeleteDamn straight.
Just got of the phone to my buddy in Cairo. His sister's upstairs, while him and groups of twenty-five or so neighbours litter the street outside, every few hundred yards. waiting til dawn, armed with iron bars and rocks to prevent that great function of social upeaval - looting - inflicting on their loved ones, their safety and their possessions.
The army are finally getting near their part of town, but they've heard gunshots, very near-by, all night. It's about 2 in the morning.
I'm out a lot engaged in "activism" these days.
Whence - and WTF - attacking Paul, Olching ? What the FUCK was that bullshit.
"Action of any kind" that doesn't involve solidarity with people a fucking rizlas difference to you on 99% of issues eh ? Fucking ego-wank that is. Olching smashed it. Oh how cool. Get fucking out of here you waste of space. Oh I'm too cool for the fucking Untrusted. Oh oh oh oh oh. Get over youself ya big tube.
Hah, just got your retraction; kind of fuckks the second part of my rant.
ReplyDeleteOK ?
Olching,
ReplyDelete"I don't prove myself to Hank; he is a friend of mine."
I, too, felt that honour, before it became a nonsense.
It was probably me, Olching. Perhaps you should Google that.
ReplyDeleteNeocon my fucjking arse. All I ever wanted to say that the first step in any peace process would be to recognise a state whose existence is mandated by the UN. But that is not important.
ReplyDeleteHow fucking dare you though, accuse me of being a neocon. The developments in Egypt are a positive situation, not the bloodhshed obviously, but the chance that the people might choose to have control over their affairs and be rid of the kleptocracy running their country.
I have always made my voice known against the machinations of the neocons, in Ukraine, in Georgia, with their installed puppets and astroturf revolutions I have been critiscing, on the Iraq and Afghan crusades I have been critiscing them, I have always been critiscing the US political/oligarchic setup where there are two political parties that are 95% similar in thrall to vested interests.
You don't speak for me.
And with that said I'm going to bed.
ReplyDeleteYes, it was you PeterJ. Cheers.
ReplyDeleteYes, Bitters and Paul completely fucked myself, so yet again muchos apologies...but then Paul and Peter..so similar in name but not in opinion. Sorry, Paul. That was uncalled for and simply ludicrous on my behalf.
Anyway, let me continue my rant: What's your opinion on this ME development?
NapK, I wouldn't dare call you a neocon. I called you the pliceman's baton to PeterBracken's neocon ideology (not even the policeman!), which is far more humiliating.
That question on ME development is directed at PeterJ.
ReplyDeleteWhat chance of el Baredei taking over ? who else is a popular possibility in Egyptian opposition ?
ReplyDeleteKSA may well take in Mubarak. Whatever happens the US control of the region is over. Israel is running out of 'allies' in the region.
Sheff
I hope the Rafah crossing is opened soon - break the stranglehold on Gaza.
Looking ahead I hope the gas off Gazan coast can be used to help Gazan people - it could be brought ashore at Egyptian hub port.
Olching; if you refer to Egypt, then my opinion is that if Mubarak is not on the next plane out, then he should be. Accompanied by the heads of the secret police. For the rest, I don't know enough about Egyptian politics to suggest what form of Government will emerge in the short term. I hope that the Egyptian people get the outcome they need.
ReplyDeleteThe US and Israel should keep well out of it; Obama's already made a false step in response to Mubarak's TV address, and Netanyahu's been wise in ordering his ministers to shut up after one of the nutters in the cabinet (no shortage there) told Time that the Arabs wouldn't be ready for democracy for another generation.
Is that enough for now, or can I just start batoning you right away?
Bitters, by the way, I too know people in Cairo, but haven't been able to get in touch with them. Worried but at the same time exhilarated.
ReplyDeleteLeni, ElBaradei will not take over, even though he is crucial for getting Mubarak out. It might be something/someone new and not of the Islamist kind predicted by neocons (if the Muslim Brotherhood have a say in the matter it will be as a representative body in a coalition of sorts, if at all).
And yes Leni, let's hope they end the crime that is Gaza.
ReplyDeletePeterJ, the US should of course make a clear statement against this dictator, but they won't as he is still their mate (but only just). In the same way, he is also Israel's mate (but only just).
My hope is that this revolution spreads to Israel and ousts the Zionist right-wingers. One can only hope.
Paul, just reading through my first two comments. Knowing I didn't mean those comments for you makes me doubly embarrassed (but at least my mate NapK got to read them!).
Olching
ReplyDeletei have no expectation of the MB taking power - no evidence to suggest the people want them. They are being portrayed as the ghost at the feast by some to try to strengthen opposition to the revolution.
All the signs are that the army will support the people - Mubarak will go.
olching
ReplyDeleteDon't worry about it.I'll delete my posts so it will like the exchange never happened.Misunderstandings are a fact of life online and as far as i'm concerned we're cool.
@Olching: you would get respect on this site for admitting you fucked up with your arguements.
ReplyDeleteNowt wrong with that..we all make a tit of ourselves sometimes....the trick is to stop digging!
Olching, I hope you're right about the US doing the right thing in the end. One possibility I read from a US source is that there's behind-the-scenes US pressure on the Egyptian army top brass to stay out of it, using the military aid as a lever. There's a lot of bet hedging going on, but if Mubarak flies out I don't think that the US won't call for his reinstatement.
ReplyDeleteMy own preference in Israel would be for an election to get the right wingers out, but a few street mobilisations couldn't hurt their either.
Whoops; that should be "I don't think that the US will call for his reinstatement".
ReplyDeletePaul,
ReplyDeleteI won't delete my posts, so no need to delete yours. The resolution is apparent.
Checkhov, please read my posts. My arguments stand, it's just that I got the wrong name (Paul) on PeterB and NapK I feel I am absolutely right, or are you going to surprise us with neocon aboutface? Thought not.
@PeterJ
Excellent. Stay on *that* side of the argument vis-a-vis Israel. No need to defend its genocidal policies as in the past. It's about humanity and you seem articulate enough to comprehend this.
Olching, I very much doubt that I've defended 'genocidal policies' of any kind, anywhere. Perhaps we could have a debate about Israel from first principles sometime.
ReplyDeleteOlching + Peter
ReplyDeleteThere is still a Left in Israel - currently silenced and under pressure.
The fall of Mubarak will shake things up in Israel and possibly bring the Right down. It will be interesting to see Obama's reaction to things in Israel in relation to changes in Egypt.
Some unrest in Jordan too - will this escalate is next thing to watch.
@Olching: "Checkhov, please read my posts. My arguments stand, it's just that I got the wrong name (Paul) on PeterB and NapK I feel I am absolutely right, or are you going to surprise us with neocon aboutface? Thought not. "
ReplyDeleteErr...so I'm a "neo-con" am I? Where on earth did you get that notion from?
@Leni
ReplyDeleteThe Israeli left isn't silenced - silencing an Israeli is never easy! - but yes, it's under pressure and politically weak in Knesset terms after the near collapse of the Labour party. There are still enough balances in the system to stop the crazier law proposals being enacted, though.
"The fall of Mubarak will shake things up in Israel and possibly bring the Right down."
ReplyDeleteHe's been their ally for thirty years, Leni. I hope I'm wrong, but I honestly can't see how if the Egyptians get a truly elected voice, it will be one to please the Israeli government.
Olching, I always thought you were a total gent and was surpised to se you laying in to Paul like that. No-one does that shit. Anyways, all squared away.
ReplyDeleteWhat part of town are your pals ? Mine's in heleopolis, where his family's lived for twenty years or so, but are Cairo born and bred.
The big news, which is being kept totally out of international reporting as far as I can see, is that "New Cairo" the gated city several miles East into the desert and connected by a new motorway and has dedicated armed guards at evey entrance point, and has billions of tons of Nile water diverted to it (from Cairo) every year so that the ex-pat middle classes may have lawns and US style shopping mals, is under siege. Many inghabitants have left in the last 48 hrs, and plasma tvs etc are being trucked away...
You have to bear in mind that Cairo only has the infrastructure to support 1, maybe 1.5million people, yet has 20million inhabitants, and it is widely acknowledged there that street kids are abducted as part of the live human organ industry...
You only have to go there and drive around the city orbital at dusk to see what a chronically, truly gargantuan enterprise their economy is, but based on inhuman hours, less than subsistance wages, and with absolutely jack shit safeguarding. They try to make nothing into something; while Mubarak and his lackeys have thrust in their faces for decades an insistance on paying a fiver just to get through a pointless road block; an unecessary checkpoint, a ruthless beating up for the insoussiance of going to the shops... every single day of their lives... no wonder they're going fucking mental. The whole regime has been untenable for years. And what do we get on CiF ? Why the "tipping culture" is letting the place down. Assholes.
OK
olching
ReplyDeleteChekhov strikes me as a totally sound bloke and i think i can safely say there's absolutely nothing neo-con about him.Ditto Peter Jackson.And as far as charlie is concerned i personally believe people should make some allowance for the fact he's 22.Others here disagree with me on that but that's what i think!
@Hi Leni/Bitterweed and anyone else still up.
@BW
ReplyDeleteI just heard one of those expats interviewed on the radio, saying that she hoped that nice Mr Mubarak would stay in charge, because he was such a man of peace.
Then they interviewed a guy on the street with his neighbours, defending their houses from looters and, he said, prisoners released from the jails.
chekhov,
ReplyDelete"Err...so I'm a "neo-con" am I? Where on earth did you get that notion from?"
you're a bloody fascist and you know it!
Especially if respected posters tell you that you are!
Honestly, I'm disgusted with myself for thinking what a genuinely warm hearted, intelligent, funny, damn good human being you appear to be.
"Human beings are perhaps never more frightening than when they are convinced beyond doubt that they are right"
ReplyDeleteSee below! and above!
"Checkhov, please read my posts. My arguments stand, it's just that I got the wrong name (Paul) on PeterB and NapK I feel I am absolutely right, or are you going to surprise us with neocon aboutface? Thought not."
My thoughts on anything move from the premise that I know fuck all and neither does anyone else!
It might be a flawed stratgegy but it works for me!
Peter
ReplyDeletethere are certainly some on the Left in Israel who feel they are being silenced - the pressure to conform to the right wing expectations is very strong.
Stratgegy! Doh! Stratgedy even!
ReplyDelete@Leni
ReplyDeleteYes, they do feel that they're being silenced. And they make a great deal of noise about the silencing, from the pages of Ha'aretz via the offices of their NGOs to the wider world. If it wasn't for all the shouting about being silenced, we wouldn't even know about it!
PeterJ - I heard that too. My friends aren't expats, they're Egyptian. In case there was any confusion
ReplyDeletePaul.
Tune ?
This one's for Laurie fuckwit Penis
The Grey Album
Yeah I got tune.
PS I just had to turn down a gig at Ronnie Scotts tomorrow don't give me no bullshit tunes. No apologies either. %-)
ReplyDeleteChekhov
ReplyDeleteYou could never make even a toenail full of a neocon - you have too much ruth.
@Heyhabib: He he...glad someone manages to keep their sense of humour!
ReplyDeleteHow I still love this young woman...
ReplyDelete"too much ruth." Very Old Testament, that one. like it, centurion.
Of all the word artists on here I think Bitters wins the laurels.
ReplyDeleteanyway - I'm trying for an early night so NN all. x
Has anyone else got it like that ???
ReplyDeleteMmm hmm. Like how ? Like that.
Itchy.
Good night Leni.
ReplyDeleteStuff
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7pESuX9E24
Bitterweed
ReplyDeleteHere's a track from Beautiful South Crap video but great tune.
I used to go Ronnie Scotts.Mainly upstairs mind!
@You alright habib? Wish i could do more of that laid back,piss taking couldn't give a fuck thing you do.:-)
Peter, some confusion over my term "ex-pat". I meant, middle class Egyptians who have moved to the gated city.
ReplyDeleteNot "foreigners".
(I see where this may have caused some confusion - being as I are, half Cornish, I call half the cunts who live In Cronwall "ex-pats" because they arrived from the big cities beyond the county; we are all, of course "English")
Lisa Shaw
ReplyDeletePaul
ReplyDeleteAn unexpected delight. I have spent half my adult life acively hating the Beutiful South; the nagging doubt was that along the line there may have been something useful amongst the middle class drek. Point scoreD, and I salute you.
On the other channel, THIS IS FUCKING FABULOUS
(Play it very loud for full effect)
Luvin the Gonzales navro.
ReplyDelete@BW
ReplyDeleteAh, OK, got it now. The only British expats I used to know who lived in Cairo were in Heliopolis, I think - is there a particular area for non-Egyptian ex-pats?
Here's one from Marian Montgomery and Dudley Moore
ReplyDeleteBTW i liked the Chines New Year song BW.
ReplyDeleteChinese even!
ReplyDeleteAnd here's something I hadn't heard for a very long time.
ReplyDeleteTosh
PeterJ
ReplyDeleteExpats ? Yeh, sure - riverside, near the big hotels. Two or three districts.
I mean, the life you can have in that city is amazing if you have no scruples. And another part of WHAT WE DON'T HEAR -is that the ruling elite have been for years engaging people in sex-parties the like of which if you google it you would be underinformed.
I mean FULL. FUCKING. ON. PISS-ON-CALIFORNIAN PORN.
But then so is the Middle East rife with such stuff.
This is where I find it so hilarious when relitavists parp out about the "protection" Islamist dress codes offer their bitches. Give me a FUCKING BREAK. There is more filth, porn and total degradation going on in mainstream Middle Eastern countries than we dare believe possible in blighty. They love the porn, the whoring and the shut-the-fuck-up, it's aman thing. THEY. LOVE. IT.
Tricky ain't it ?
Heh...
More stuff
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCFSTQFlbgY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWvurnpKjE4
ReplyDeleteI'm sure the yids are at it too, off course.
ReplyDeleteNews flash from Haaretz
ReplyDeletemubarak said to have fled Cairo- now in Sharm el Sheikh.
I didn't go to bed - started reading.
NN
In my experience, BW, most people are at it to some degree. Why, even here in Brighton...
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, there's this.
Spanish prog.
ReplyDeleteCan't be right. Emerson, Lake and Franco.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv-8cwpZOCM&feature=player_embedded#