Johann Hari "Protest works. Just look at the proof." If seventy enraged twitterers can shut down Vodafone in Oxford Street, what cannot be done to Atos and A4e and Co?
Make sure and get a taste of the poteen Peter, real 'rubber leg' stuff!
Hope the hang overs aren't too bad! Had to laugh at "2hrs to go 50 miles" This morn it took me 1hr 40mins to go 15 miles (£8 return) on public transport. If you haven't had to rely on rural PT you'd have no idea. If I had to do it every day, it wouldn't be worth doing the job...
And I'd like to appologise for my comment last night about Mrs.T, I was steaming drunk, but that's no excuse for the terrible slander, to alcholics. ; )
I was very abstemious last night - just the five pints and a Côtes du Rhone nightcap when I got home - so I'm bright-eyed and bushy-tailed this morning.
As I said, it was a really great evening last night and we must do it again in France sometime.
Great to meet everyone there last night. We of course left early to have an easy drive home - La Rit - you would not have believed the even more intense hassle of getting outta that place, as compared to the frustration of getting there !.
Apologies in advance to all you Londonite dwellers, but you are all fecking mad !.
Note to self: 'Don't ever volunteer to drive into the heart of London again'. Re: Blood pressure, stress, Road rage, Traffic Jams, Traffic lights every 25 yards, Push bikes, pedestrians, taxi drivers, Road works..... Aahhhhhh !!!!
Left @ 10.30, got home 12:45. Once you get to the M40. 50 mins to home with your boot down.. Nearly 1.5 hours to escape from the centre..
All well worth it though, just for the chance to meet up !
I have to stop drinking. Last night 8 pints of cider, well 5 pints and 3 cans of 6% stuff. 17-18 units. Thats average. I didn't have a drink for three weeks in March, to see if I could do it, and seee if I had the DT's (Didn't) But with that brief period excepted, I drink 10-20 units every day.
GF is 'seriously worried'.
Job finishes this weekend, so won't be able to aford it soon. Keep telling myself, if I stop taking massive quantities of a depressant, perhaps I'll be less deprressed...
You are so right about London, I can see the benefits of living there, re jobs and the like but it is a hellish place to travel in.
Whenever I visit my sister, who lives in Rickmansworth, I have to go to London first.
I normally try to get there very early in the morning to avoid the worst of the rush but whenever I have had to get there later the sheer madness of it has left me angry and frustrated.
It takes hours to get from the outskirts to the centre (this is on the bus)and the tube is horrendous at rush hour.
The idea of living with that every day does not appeal at all, I know public transport in the provinces is bad but the worst we have to put up with is being late, I have never feared for my life like I did when I was caught up in the mob travelling on the circle line in the rush hour, it's scary and horrible.
Indeed, it's like one of those nightmares where some terrible beast with horrible breath is trying to suck you into its gigantic gaping maw and the only thing you can use to climb away is a roll of cheap toilet paper....
I'm interested to see how my body would react now.
Might be time for a little 'experiment'!!*
Turm,
I used to drink shedloads, but I just sort of stopped. It wasn't really for any reason, and to be honest, I'm not sure I feel any 'better' for it. Each to their own and all that. (I still smoke loads...)
* If at any point in the near future, I start posting 'I fucking love you guys', shortly followed by, 'What's the fucking point, it's all shit...', ye shall know it hath begun(eth)!
Cheers James. I quit tobacco 10 years ago, but still like a smoke, I know my personality and thus avoid the bookies.
I went for a scan last year and my liver has fatty deposits, (I'm also over weight) which are attributable to the sauce.
Can't seem to cut down, because after five pints another drink always seems like a good idea & a couple or three whiskys. it'll have to be cold turkey I reckon...
I hope that you are ok and I can understand why you (and GF) are worried, it is so easy for drinking levels to sneak up to dangerous levels.
I worry about my own drinking but like you said not having any money will soon help you to give your liver a break.
I've got to say though that stopping drinking to see if you get the DTs is a pointless exercise, my dad and one of my exs were both alcohol dependent, I don't know much about what my dad went through when he tried to stop but from living with the ex I do know that DTs are not something that happen to many people.
Sweating, shaking, vomiting, depression (sometimes suicidal) and anxiety are all common withdrawal symptoms but the DTs are not.
With him the symptoms he got only lasted, at most, a week, after which he felt great and of course led to him thinking that he wasn't an alcoholic and so back to the drink.
It is something that has had a big effect on my life so sorry if I am going on.
I had a shitty break up in 2001, the booze crept up then, and despite being very happy relationshipwise the last 4 years (my liking for)the booze hasn't gone away.
I had no symptoms whatsoever when I stopped, and like you say felt great and of course led to him thinking that he wasn't an alcoholic and so back to the drink.
My name is Paz, I am an alcholic, and a stoner. But I'm going cold turkey with Cif.
Also Turm, cold turkey without a bit of medical intervention is not a great idea, it can turn bad very quickly.
From my experience doctors are worse than useless at dealing with alcohol problems in the long term but a few tranquilizers when you are detoxing can be a life saver.
turm they don't just hand you a fistful of tranqs anymore, they will start you off with a high dose and reduce it quickly over a period of one to two weeks, like I said I am not impressed by the way alcohol dependant people are treated by the medical profession but they have the detox stuff down to a fine art.
Once you are clean they will tell you to go to AA or offer counselling, with someone who has no expertise in addiction.
At least that was my experience.
Don't get me started on the religious cult that is AA.
AA = transfered dependance. I'll steer well clear.
I mostly post from work, and that's finished on sunday, so I'm gonna have less idle time with a fast internet connection. Am pretty bored with cif, but I like it here and will try to pop by as much as possible.
'I fucking love you guys' but 'What's the fucking point, it's all shit.. ; )
1 post...instant deletion and ban...and Jess whatsherface called me a 'troll'...all within 8 minutes...brilliant work CIF
from "ThatsTheWayIRoll"
It's an editorial decision we always struggle with: do we run a perfectly fine piece, knowing the thread will be full of abuse
You don't know it will be full of abuse; you know it will contain many comments which you and the rest of the editorial team don't agree with; anything which is clearly abusive or racist can be deleted. It's the other stuff..the stuff which wouldn't ever be voiced at your average Islington dinner party you've got problems with...the fact that you lump it all together under the blanket term of abuse and, as you hint, "struggle" with the decision to publish or not rather hints at the fact that in pursuing your editorial line you're actually following an agenda...which is cool...it's your ball after all...and so you can decide who gets to play...but then why not just make it clear what the agenda is and then everyone knows where they stand?
The notion that you should veer away from certain topics because some other people have opinions on said topic which you find distasteful is pitiful. Just what kind of a news organisation can you claim to be when you remain silent on matters which arouse passionate (if unfortunate) points of view? If you really only want to provoke debate in areas where, to all intents and purposes, there is already a consensus then you're not really hosting a medium for debate at all...just a site for reinforcing the Guardian's own position..however shaky and unfounded that position may be.
For instance, on immigration, does the Guardian believe that an open door policy is the best option? The thing is you'll never say. You want the option of hinting that anybody who points out the negative consequences of immigration is probably a touch 'unreconstructed' or xenophobic but at the same time, you can't actually deny that many people...mainly working class, obviously...have been severely impacted by immigration both in terms of employment opportunities, earnings and public services...you just seem to want the option of coming over all superior and egalitarian whenever anybody complains too much...which is a spineless, chickenshit intellectual cop-out as per..
Or feminism...the is a very strong relativistic streak at CIF which seems to accept the existence of feminist 'narratives' and indeed, a feminist 'epistemology'. Now, it's not unreasonable...certainly not misogynistic to claim feminist epistemology as an oxymoron...after all epistemology has as its raw material, knowledge. The very idea that feminist knowledge is different to knowledge totally devalues the term knowledge-not to mention truth. Rather feminist epistemology is the collective term for feminist opinion...there is, however, an insidious tendency to support any claims (some wide-sweeping and so ubiquitous that we might even call them "feminist truisms") made by feminist writers with links to studies carried out by other groups of feminists (no doubt utilising all the proven techniques of feminist statistics and feminist sampling) which purport to back them. You seem quite happy on such occasion to allow posters disputing the findings of these studies to be labelled "misogynist"...not for any statement demeaning women..but often for making salient technical points...the unrepresentative nature of the sample or the reliance on self-identification etc. Again..this is unfair and unworthy.
My main gripe, however, is the Guardian's continued denial of class as a social reality. Your choice of the wife of Boris Johnson's old Etonian, ex-merchant banker, Tory MP brother to investigate long term unemployment in one of the poorest and bleakest areas in the country is a case in point. I'm sure in a world where class, class consciousness and class differences no longer exist, such a choice would make perfect sense...but in the world where the rest of us live, where disparity grows daily and there is a virtual chasm between the lives of the people in the article and the lives of the liberal media bubble, it felt like an artless, graceless attempt to push the "we're all in this together" hymn-sheet...in fact, it felt like a smack in the face to anyone interested in equality. ------------------------------------------------
Thank god they got it taken down so soon before the vicious lies and abuse corrupted someone
Hi turm - cutting down or even cutting it out for a wee while does sound a good idea.
do you mind me asking. When the docs told you about your fatty liver did they tell you to stop drinking or to cut down? Or didn't they say anything re that at all?
Glad to hear that everyone had a good time last night.
No school today, as parent-teacher conferences were yesterday. I heard the same thing I always hear: "He's a very bright boy and so capable of doing the work, but he just doesn't get things done." I'm trying to spare you a rant here about how I told her before school started that she would have to keep close tabs on him or he'd get behind, because he gets bored with lots of writing assignments & worksheets. But I want to fucking scream. She didn't realise until grades hat to be turned in last week that he'd hardly turned anything in! So, the times when I asked her how he was doing, and she told me that he was doing just fine -- she actually didn't have a clue.
In a perverse sort of way i'd take it as a compliment that the post was zapped so quickly even though it wasn't breaking any rules.But something tells me it's likely to be 'reincarnated' at some stage :-)
is it because they know who you are and just delete anything you put up?
Hmm. I think it would be an interesting experiment for a banned poster to come back with two new identities at the same time. One identity would be a Waddaya luvvie, one would post things like what MF did above. See how long each of the IDs lasted. If they were both banned equally quickly, we'd know that the moderators were being even-handed and consistent.
They seem to have a new system, which is perhaps either flagging up for consideration or automatically logging and deleting IP addresses.
You could try using a proxy server for registration, which would then hide you behind a different IP address.
Obviously, it tends to show where they are putting their resources and probably shows how empty the whole "What do you think of moderation?" malarkey really was, other than allowing the obsequious element to make little waves and signals, squealing "Ooh, pick me, pick me! I'll do exactly as I am told and tell everyone how wonderful CiF is. I'll even get me mates to join if your wonderfulnesses slip me a couple of quid."
So, if you have spent several years doing very little other than ensuring that you can control your users and peddle an ideological line at the same time as pretending that you are hosting an open debate and then you find they don't like it, what would be your next move?
Would you:
A. Relax the control and risk opening the site to various opinions, allowing your star posters and key demographic to be confronted with ideas they do not like?
B. Crack down even harder on dissent and turn your brainwashed users into bounty-hunters to assist you in silencing voices which contradict your ideology?
Now, given the way CiF and The Guardian have behaved in the past and that this really presents Natalie Hanman with a chance to show that she could at least attempt to change things for the better, which way will they jump?
Tricky one, isn't it?
So, that'll be stifling debate, deleting opinions you don't like and more rapid and effective banning.
I was recently banned under one name and thought I would use an unused name which I had set up about the same time.
I was banned before I had even used it, which would tend to indicate a link to IP noting, at least.
Dotterel
I think I have run out and have not, so far, bothered to register a new one.
I'll be interested to see whether Hanman attempts to lie her way out of the moderation/banning business or if she just says they will do what they like and fuck their users.
Also the haters give themelsves away-- they sign up for Cif, and go straight onto WADDYA to hurl abuse and ad homs. They are not being banned becuase of who they were, but because of what they say.
However, as OZKTB29 or whatever his name is said, essentially:
It's not what you say that causes the problems, it's the fact that we don't like the tone with which you say it
Since your entire posting oeuvre seems motivated by a grievance: namely wherever you go people think you're a dick...and this leads you to conclude you're a genius who just isn't properly appreciated, I'd like to offer this piece of advice as balance: maybe you are actually a dick.
Note to Martyn
"That's a hell of a lot of words to simply ask if Cif can be like something completely different."
But Martyn..it was deleted...and then there was a banning...and it's still the topic of discussion. That's how to post Martyn.
18000 plus posts of uniform forgettability which are all either paraphrased from wikipedia or just your basic "Look at me, Jess" are never going to achieve this. And since you're clearly such a silly spineless little man who only runs up and sticks the boot in once the victim's laid out on the floor helpless...don't bother sunshine...it just makes you look even more pathetic.
"They seem to have a new system, which is perhaps either flagging up for consideration or automatically logging and deleting IP addresses."
They're definitely doing something different. They've just banned me before my first post...I was "Text Me Ishmael"...a name that was unfortunately still-born. Maybe they took advice from ShitForBrains in Europe or EnglishFuckwit..who know's?..but it seems very important to them that I'm not allowed to post anything.
Haha, hadn't seen dotterels & Atomboy's posts when I did that. I wouldn't normally repost deleted comments, but once Jess had signified that it was the messenger rather than the message that was at fault, they'd have looked pretty daft if they'd deleted it again.
I think that comment from OZK is broadly correct:
"It's not what you say that causes the problems, it's the fact that we don't like the tone with which you say it "
Added to two other things:
1. Cif will let a hell of a lot of ugly posts stand, but are ludicrously sensitive to criticism. If "ThatsTheWayIRoll" had had any other target, I doubt he would have been zapped.
2. Don't want to jab a stick in a hornets nest, but some of the shit that has gone down on WDYWTTA since the days of Melissa and Mavis has been seriously fucking unpleasant for everyone involved. In the same way that the mods and their narks are on constant hairtrigger lookout for Giyus, they're now also on a hair-trigger for anyone with a particular style of comment and opinion. Pen probably voiced what they're thinking, when he said something like "yes, that post was reasonable but you just wonder what's coming next"
And of course that's a piss poor way to moderate a comment site, but I suspect it is the way things are.
Fab time yesterday evening - what a fantastic bunch! I was a real feckin lightweight though and snuck off about 10is as I had serious school this morning.
So nice to meet everyone IRL and realise they are just as brill if not briller.
Looking forward to Leam now...
Anyhoo, it's Friday night, my day has been shit-on-a-stick (although the prosecutor was feeling as bad I was too, so we were doing formation coughing throughout).
Feet up, browsing Cif, glass of wine... sorted....
I'll just make a minor correction, although I hate to be picky.
The, "It's not what you say..." quote above is me.
OZKT29B said on WADDYA:
"The antagonistic tone aside, those two points deserve separate threads to themselves."
The other evening on this site, he complained about "the obnoxious tone" - from memory - which meant that posts could hardly expect to be allowed to stand, if they could not tug their forelock and give a little bow of servitude, when in the presence of magnificent posters on CiF.
You mention "seriously fucking unpleasant" episodes on WADDYA. I have not seen them and the problem I have is when people there just assume that anyone who posts there who they do not like MUST come from here - or, more simply and just as inaccurately, be GIYUS.
You picked up on translated saying that anyone mentioning Islington dinner-parties should expect to be banned.
It seems to have got to the stage where people are no longer aware of what constitutes a good reason for deletion or banning.
the problem I have is when people there just assume that anyone who posts there who they do not like MUST come from here - or, more simply and just as inaccurately, be GIYUS.
The other evening on this site, he complained about "the obnoxious tone" - from memory - which meant that posts could hardly expect to be allowed to stand, if they could not tug their forelock and give a little bow of servitude, when in the presence of magnificent posters on CiF.
There's some distance between tugging your forelock and simply not-acting-like-an-arse.
People self-police arseholish behaviour in real life - for instance, the other night your charming mate heyhabib calls me a twat, out of the blue. If we were in a pub, he'd keep that to himself, or say it and risk getting a slap. Or another real-life parallel - if we were sat in my living room and someone starts a caustic and amusing personal attack on other people present, I'd ask them to leave. I bet you would as well.
Thankfully for habib and others, there's lots of unmoderated spaces on-line where you can unleash your inner arsehole unchecked. I'm glad that Cif isn't one of them, and that's got nothing to do with 'inconvenient' ideas and everything to do with avoiding people who act like arseholes, just like you would in real life.
That's why I think the tone of your posts matters, and why I don't buy the idea that you and MF are martyrs who dared to speak the truth.
GOLEMXIV also on an angry roll here . On the whole idea of UK PLC, what the Hell IS a 'Stakeholder',while millions of ordinary citizens lose their jobs, everyone sees their country sold out from under their feet, to pay off 'bondholders. That is slowly and belatedly changing, with Germany now refusing to continue EuroState bail-outs for them. Ambrose E-P, Torygraph.
The problem with this is that style or tone can appeal or not on a personal level in much the way that the style of a novelist may seem to resonate at a personal level with some people and actually seem quite repulsive to others.
The most obvious element of style which is frequently missed or misinterpreted online is irony - or so people frequently say.
Just because you don't like the way someone says something does not mean you are in a position to act as arbiter or judge for others, which is why we say play the comment, not the person making it.
I have been accused of making nasty ad hominem attacks on WADDYA and this has been used as justification for reporting me. The problem is, I have not done this, so someone is simply guessing - and guessing wrongly.
Sheffpixie posted a comment here some weeks ago about a person playing the violin in a New York subway, the case placed open for people to drop change into as they passed.
Mothers were seen to drag their small children past the violinist, despite the fact they wanted to listen. Adults scurried and tripped past, looking the other way or ostentatiously starting loud jabbering conversations in order to blot out the music and the man playing.
The violinist was an internationally acclaimed virtuoso and the piece he played was notoriously considered to be virtually impossible to play.
It depends how we look at things.
There are a lot of people I think are arseholes, as you put it.
Sometimes, I just pass over what they have written and sometimes I read it and use it to ponder whether they are actually arseholes or if it might just be me.
What I do not think is that they should be deleted, censored or banned just because I do not like their style or tone or the fact that I disagree with what they say.
Since your entire posting oeuvre seems motivated by a grievance: namely wherever you go people think you're a dick...and this leads you to conclude you're a genius who just isn't properly appreciated, I'd like to offer this piece of advice as balance: maybe you are actually a dick.
A point you might like to consider, MF, is that napoleon has said many dickish things, being young confused etc, but that he is not necessarily for ever more , a 'dick'?
Not everyone evolves, but quite a lot do! The power of the net is that youthful misperceptions and arrogances are displayed for all to see. If irrc Nap gave an example of a plant in Stornoway recruiting directly in Estonia, that's the real Biz ? Free movement of Labour, and even more so Capital , is one of the real problems.
I am just going to drop these here without comment.
NapoleonKaramazov 29 October 2010 7:09PM
I'm sorry Ally, but your long post certainly did constitutse personal abuse. The talk o the journalist whose husband is a Tory MP, therefore the banned posted implying that she is in no postion to do her job.
I would guess that the banned poster is from a website where they love to make a big thing about not having a moderation system, but oh surprise, *some people* should be 'moderated' from writing for a national newspaper.
The offending piece...
My main gripe, however, is the Guardian's continued denial of class as a social reality. Your choice of the wife of Boris Johnson's old Etonian, ex-merchant banker, Tory MP brother to investigate long term unemployment in one of the poorest and bleakest areas in the country is a case in point. I'm sure in a world where class, class consciousness and class differences no longer exist, such a choice would make perfect sense...but in the world where the rest of us live, where disparity grows daily and there is a virtual chasm between the lives of the people in the article and the lives of the liberal media bubble, it felt like an artless, graceless attempt to push the "we're all in this together" hymn-sheet...in fact, it felt like a smack in the face to anyone interested in equality.
And I didn't bother to even read the rest so who knows what other things there might be. It refers to Amelia Gentleman, who is a top class journalist and writer, here piece I believe she referred to was excellent. Her works are generally excellent, and if you look back to last year when she did a piece about the Zurich suicide clinics and the people who work there, I said that it ought to be awarded the best article of the year (this post go the most recommends). But of course to some people only their personal situations count. Why is she not allowed to report on poverty if she has a Tory MP?
AllyF 29 October 2010 7:24PM
Napoleon
I'm sorry Ally, but your long post certainly did constitutse personal abuse. The talk o the journalist whose husband is a Tory MP, therefore the banned posted implying that she is in no postion to do her job.
You have a very strange definition of personal abuse. Fair enough, you can disagree with the post (and for that matter with me) about the appropriateness of using Amelia Gentleman to write a profile of people's lives in South Bank, Middlesbrough, but it is utter bobbins to describe that opinion as abuse. If that is abuse, then just about every post on Cif should be deleted.
"And I didn't bother to even read the rest so who knows what other things there might be. It refers to Amelia Gentleman, who is a top class journalist and writer, here piece I believe she referred to was excellent. Her works are generally excellent, and if you look back to last year when she did a piece about the Zurich suicide clinics and the people who work there, I said that it ought to be awarded the best article of the year (this post go the most recommends). But of course to some people only their personal situations count. Why is she not allowed to report on poverty if she has a Tory MP?"
Personally I think it is tactless, it smacks of sending an anthropologist to look at the poor people in a funny part of a distant land. I also thought the article was weak and patronising, but I accept that is a judgement call.
I have no problem with you or others disagreeing with that post. But just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it should be deleted. Strewth.
NapoleonKaramazov 29 October 2010 7:37PM
It was still a low shot Ally, below the belt. Anyway, Friday night beckons..
The problem for many of us who have been banned and were actually around from the very early days is that the impression in many cases is that CiF actually wants, as a matter of policy, to moderate on the "intellectual" level of the above.
This is why I have said that we probably have the reputation and functionality of CiF more in mind than those people who have the authority to debase and ruin it and seem to be hell-bent on doing so.
CiF at the moment seems to be like a drunken trapeze artist, lurching and wobbling between falling from the wire into the pit filled with klaxons and whoopie-cushions labelled "Laughing Stock" and the slimy pond bubbling with frog-spawn and excrement signposted "Gutter Press."
It could try to get to the other side, where it could stand safely on the platform marked "Intellectual Rigour and Integrity."
So, will it be a sticky splash or a series of bouncy honks and parps?
Montana - I am just kinda hoping he will grow out of it. I was a dipshit at 22 as well. And, as you say, the correlary of that is, of course, that what he says can't be taken too seriously right now. He has some hard knocks to come.
Sorry about the stories concerning the American Marines.
Just to make matters worse, Clive Stafford Smith said that America is happy to go to war, as long as it is with the implied assurance that no American gets hurt in the process.
Actually Nap really did say, on the thread about the Romanian children being found doing harvesting, that fit and healthy young men should travel the country, living in caravans, picking spuds because it would be like a Thomas Hardy novel.
The bankers have engaged in what amounts to a massive fraud, not necessarily because they started out with criminal intent (although that cannot be ruled out), but because they have been required to in order to come up with the commodities (in this case real estate) to back their loans. It is the way our system is set up: The banks are not really creating credit and advancing it to us, counting on our future productivity to pay it off, the way they once did under the deceptive but functional façade of fractional reserve lending.
Instead, they are vacuuming up our money and lending it back to us at higher rates. In the shadow banking system, they are sucking up our real estate and lending it back to our pension funds and mutual funds at compound interest. The result is a mathematically impossible pyramid scheme, which is inherently prone to systemic failure.
glad everyone that went had a good time down the pub......
montana
you have my support on the nap thang him and muttonineurope really are a waste of e space tbh....but fit nicely into the spineless, brown-nosing commentators of the year category
the hypocrisy of the graun is reaching a historical high, the majority of articles bland at the best and at the worst offensive revisionism cite peter preston: "pinochet was an ok bloke really" as example.......
anyway holiday weekend here and berlusconi scandal again (*sighs, mumbles profanities and reaches for a glass of grappa*) ........young Moroccan girl: abuse of power, underage prostitution and basically being a complete dickhead bastard.......so nowt new there......
Like a Thomas Hardy novel, I am still shocked that anyone with a functioning brain could say that like it is a good thing.
Has he actually read a Hardy novel, daft old git that he was but he never backed down from describing life for the poor like it was, brutal and nasty.
I honestly despair, the working class young are, in a lot of cases, uncaring about politics and the middle class youth are pining for hard labour and caravans.
For what it's worth, I'm giving The Indy most of my time and page hits now, because I think the G's got one, maybe two years left before Mr Rushbridger is seen trying to fend off the bailifs with a fair-trade, organic muffin and an imaginary forcefield made out of progressiveness and former glories...
Unless of course, they do get the job as official mouthpiece for the administration, although I'm pretty sure the Daily Mail's got that one in the bag!!
"Me too, thankfully I didn't have the net to broadcast it ! "
I know. It was only my immediate entourage that ever knew what an inconsequential airhead I was. It still slips through from time to time now, too (shut up, Scherfig! :p)
And the trouble with the internet is that you can say the most amazingly profound thing at 2am and think that you are awesome, and half a gazillion people have already seen it, commented on it and called you an eejet by the time you read it in the cold light of day the next morning....
Bon soir,tout le monde: crikey, you southerners are such a bunch of woosies. That was like going out on the "lash" with the bloody "Temperence Society"!
BB and Spike spent the whole evening talking common sense, (quite where they think that will get us I've no idea)
That Phillipa girl is way too smart for her own good (I'll try and find the number for the helpline)
Tascia had to take Thauma home early 'coz she kept falling over.
@Shazz;flattery will get you everywhere (with me at least!)
As for La Rit: clearly certifiable, the girl is stark raving bonkers. Mind you, it's a prerequisite of living in London that you have to be a couple of sandwiches short of a pic-nic
Oh and BTW I didn't bargain on having to re-mortgage my house to pay for a round of drinks!
Seriously though, top night out and great company and thanks to La Rit for putting me up.
Have learned through my meeja contacts (heh..heh..) there are concerns that Thatcher may be pegging out. Of course they could be wrong but we can live in hope!
Back from work not 30 mins and just wanted to say how much I enjoyed last night So just swinging by to say an evening 'hiya'all and esp....BB, Spike, Tascia, Thauma, Shaz (heloooo??? did you get home safely?) n Chekhov too... a long trip home :)
Tascia - Spent the day in Catford today (very, very deprived area with high unemployment - but very nice people) and it's occurred to me just how damaging heavy traffic is to people - many parts of S.London, with high poverty concentrations, are dominated by very busy roads.... In this day and age, we should be thinking of how to separate people from traffic - it should be a human right not to have to suffer that every day ;(
"Cllr Anderson, a grandmother who led the Eppleton Area Miners' Wives Support Group during the strike, also flatly refused to retract her comments about the former Conservative leader.
"I'm a miner's widow," she said. "I remember 84/85 as if it was yesterday.
"I hate Thatcher for what she did to my community, what she did to the ordinary people who live here."
She added: "I stand by what I said."
The comment was made during an exchange with Dominic McDonough, 21, who stood for the Conservatives in May’s council elections.
In response to his comment about his adoration for Baroness Thatcher, Cllr Anderson wrote: "Well dear Dominic, you can delete me from your page but you can't delete me from here, haha, I hope she BURNS IN HELL."
says it nicely......but hell seems an easy option....
It was a bloody school night! Well, except for Shaz and Philibee who were on their hols...
I will endeavour to drink more than two and a half pints next time.
And yes, you do need a bloody second mortgage in London pubs... bastards.
LaRit - south east London is pretty grim. When Phil first said about the meet I thought she had said "Camberwell Green" not Clerkenwell,and my first thought was "shit, I'm not going out there at night on me own". I have spent more than my fair share in the mags and youth courts there and it's really depressing.
That was where I had a charming young 13 yr old tell me to "Fuck off, you fat cow". And I was representing him.
Relax habib, in reality I am a bit of a twat. It just stung that you had me pegged so quickly.
The treatment being meted out to NapK gives a perfect example of why moderation is a good thing. Again, imagine all of us in a room, and all of you rounding on the youngest one there and giving him all this bile, in person. Do your live through scenes like that in your day-to-day lives? No? Then why do it on-line?
If you're around, re: drinking and the fatty deposits on the liver - I'm supposed to have some blood tests and I'm terrified because I drink too much. It is better to know though, so I will get them done next week - you've spurred me on ;)
It goes in cycles with me and I have been able to give up completely for long periods of time and also drink in moderation. I had an alcoholic ex and I think that he changed my drinking habits, then my Dad dying was the clincher - it went out of control. I tried AA (they're nutjobs and not to be messed with and they don't deal with the real issues - it's like shaming people into not drinking and people frequently lapse)
The best thing I found was a local, drop in support group called Crossroads - you didn't have to stop drinking to attend and be treated sympathetically and with respect(although many chronic drinkers who attended had successfully managed it) It was a completely non-judgemental environment and I think that is the main reason it was so successful. They offered free ear acupuncture (proven to help with addiction), detox tea, shiatsu massage.... and sanctuary ;)
It really, really helped me and it was the maddest collection of people you'd ever wish to meet - little old West Indian grannies, white middle class 20 somethings, middle aged Irish fellas, street drinkers, ex-junkies and crack addicts who had turned to drink to deal with the abstention from very, very tough addictions - you name it, they were there.
But everyone helped and supported each other - it was a leveller and if it hadn't been for that, I think I would never have reached an equilibrium as it helped to diminish my anger and rage as well as my dependence on alcohol.
The trouble for me is, it's the easiest thing to turn to in a crisis and these last 4 years have seen both my anger and my drinking increase - reasons being living in such precarious circumstances. I'm hoping that now I've finally found work,(and that MrLarit is in steady employment after 4 years of uncertainty because of his health and nearly 18 months unemployed) work that suits me and that I enjoy and I feel respected in, that leaves me time to do my own thing, I will now have the strength to diminish my need to drink to excess as frequently and help me to start being more creative and productive.
Your work situation is a very negative and difficult one (I was really hoping you'd managed to find something) but please, please, don't lose heart and don't beat yourself up about the booze......but do look after yourself and take the warning about your liver seriously.
I think volunteer-run support groups like Crossroads are all over the country - some investigation might well bear fruit and if you are going to be unemployed for a little while, it's a good time to do it, they are always free and there are some very, very kind souls out there who will respect you first as a human being but never as a 'problem drinker' and who will not judge.
(PS In my experience, GP's are worse than useless, very many they do not understand how to tackle a drinking problem in a positive way)
You are talking rubbish, of course we would not round on the youngest person if we were all in the same room.
Unless of course that youngest person spouted absolute elitist shit.
Using Nap as an example is just not going to fly,he was given a bit of leeway because of his age but if he had come in here spouting his gibberish he would have been dismissed even quicker if nobody knew his age.
I am a bit of an idiot and when I started commenting here I got it in the neck from Scherfig and others (it was probably deserved) but I can see that if you come in here with something to say you will be treated well.
On the other hand if you come in here to insult a well liked member (you and Atomboy) then you might get called a twat.
I to the Vizzo "It just stung that you had me pegged so quickly." I didn't and I never meant to cause you offence, that I did is my fault and I apologise.
Hello, everyone and fellow-drinkers: seriously good evening, and lovely to meet you guys - dead impressed by Chekhov making it - (note to self - more food next time: Marmite sarnies not enough to base an evening's drinking on)
Saw Nap's comment re agricultural labour - didn't notice him extolling its virtues when he was jobhunting...
I to the Vizzo--Hi. I think young Nap has invited some derision in what he posts. He has gotten doses of bile from some corners, but he has received some constructive suggestions as well. As you are hopefully realising, we are not all of the same opinion here, and that to me is damn good.
Something a bit quicker. Maybe should have offered this last night for those in 'town.'
Again, imagine all of us in a room, and all of you rounding on the youngest one there and giving him all this bile, in person. Do your live through scenes like that in your day-to-day lives? No? Then why do it on-line?
Well, maybe this is where I earn my stripes as a raging bitch, but if anyone spouted the bollocks he does, I wouldn't have any problem telling him to his face everything that I've said to him online.
"Again, imagine all of us in a room, and all of you rounding on the youngest one there and giving him all this bile, in person."
I've had a think about that and to be honest, in most of the locals I've had around the country the poor sod wouldn't have lasted the length of his first pint.
I think you are coming in at the end of a conversation and missing all that went before. I'd give it a rest in all honesty. NapK can be very sweet and make some very good points, but he can also be incredibly naive and, sometimes, downright offensive with his premises (as can we all, I suppose).
I wish him well, though, because I know a few years will make him a different person.
You think that's mad - you're lucky MrLaRit hid the cartridges for the turntables.... he knoweth me too well when I'm steaming ;) It would have been the Disco tunes.....Glad he looked after you though - Yorkshire Gold loose tea - unbeatable, although as Jen says..... the water is all wrong here - far too hard (even for us Southern Shandy drinkers)
BB
The 'Fuck off you fat cow' quote from the kid you were representing - what a little gobshite... but it did make me LOL!!! but yep, Lewisham, there's a different level of grinding poverty there - today it felt like I'd gone back in time to the 70's to where my Nanna used to live in Liverpool.
PS - you are a lovely person ;) I'll remember to bring plazzie bags with me next time - just in case!
I hope Ms PhilippaB managed to retrieve her partner from the Thrash gig in Old Street :) as Chekhov says - she is outrageously intelligent and very funny ;)
@Ally - you used to post some interesting stuff on the politics threads. I always had a lot of time for you. You also showed guts when you spoke up for those who'd been banned and, in doing so, jeopardised your ATL rights.
It's all a long time ago though, isn't it?
These days you're just another Waddya fanboy. Who gives a shit if things got "unpleasant" on Waddya in the wake of the Mavis posts? Mavis was telling the truth. Waddya had become a travesty of what it should have been, jammed full of vacuous liberal idiots who sucked up to Jess and Bella and got ATL gigs to share the contents of their tiny minds.
Waddya doesn't need defending; it needs destroying.
Montana--Earn your stripes? Always pictured you with a general's stars. (-:
I'm going with Habib on his last. In the pubs and legions that I frequent, when one spouts bullshit he/she will be pulled up quickly, and rightfully so.
Ahh... you got home safely... see, you were wise - sticking to the Ale and not drinking your own bodyweight in red wine and convincing yourself you were errmmm... semi-sober ;)
MonkeyFish
That was a crime to remove that post..... but comfort yourself with the fact that the fabled Iron Lady is lying in a hospital somewhere wearing a pair of incontinence knickers. :)
Jen:
The ear stuff really worked for me - but it's not for everyone - have you tried religion? (to be said in the style of.."have you been to a Harvester before".....
NapK is a young lad who's read a lot of books but has never lived or spoken to people. He's insufferably pompous, like a lot of us were when we were as young as him.
I'm happy to cut him some slack at the same time as I don't take him seriously.
Waddya had become a travesty of what it should have been, jammed full of vacuous liberal idiots who sucked up to Jess and Bella and got ATL gigs to share the contents of their tiny minds.
Waddya doesn't need defending; it needs destroying
I would like to add that after they put needles in my ears (in my ears, in my fucking ears) they left me alone for an hour or so, to relax.
How the hell are you supposed to relax with needles in your ears.
But there was nothing in the room to read except the Dean Koonz novel I found down the back of the sofa.
What an excellent book it was, it was called the Taking, an hilarious take on American culture, not sure he meant it to be taken that way but it was how I took it.
@BB: I haven't come across an "emoticon" or otherwise compilation of punctuation marks to express what is in effect a "tongue in cheek" remark. I therefore propose that, along the lines of "LOL" and "ROTFL" we might add "TFIC"=!"tongue firmly in cheek" otherwise my warped sense of humour will be perpetually construed as the diametric opposite of it's original intent!
Interesting that WinstonRed's posts got so many reccs and yet got deleted on the great moderation thread.
Speaks volumes really about Cif. It's Alice in wonderland stuff. Free speech is what we say it is. And we're liberal enough to give free rein to fascists and "kill the poor" coalitionists, but we draw the line at those who expose our star writers as hypocrites, or throw rocks at the mimsy wankers who spend their working days gossipping with the daughter's editor and her best mate.
What do I want to talk about?
I'd like to commission one of the timewasting fucking airheads on waddya to write a piece on their part in Greece's downfall.
Thanks! I caused a bit of a ruckus in the staff lounge at school 2 years ago (prior to the 2008 election), when one of the teachers started in about Obama being a socialist who was out to destroy the country. I told her that was one of the most idiotic things I'd ever heard and that she knew absolutely nothing about socialism if she truly believed that.
The only time I really hesitate is when it might affect my son. Like, he's been in trouble twice this year about the Pledge of Allegiance. I'd like to tell his teacher that I find the PoA offensive and don't want my son saying it, but I don't want him to be singled out in any way, so I keep shtum.
NapK is a young lad who's read a lot of books but has never lived or spoken to people. He's insufferably pompous, like a lot of us were when we were as young as him.
I'm happy to cut him some slack at the same time as I don't take him seriously.
29 October, 2010 22:17 Well said Hank. I don't like to speak for anyone else but I was a stupid twat when I was 24 years old. It could be argued that I'm still a stupid twat at 51 but at least I have the experience to stand my corner (right or wrong) and know how to argue my case and hopefully do it without looking like a total knobhead. Fair play to you for giving Nap the benefit of the doubt. However that means he has to "up his game" which is good.
It also means I have to up mine, which is bad!
Just kidding! I do try to keep up but to be honest I'm one lazy fucker!
I must admit, I do occasionally feel the odd tinge of regret when laying into young master Napoleon...then I see this kinda thing..
"So we need a 'free Zimbabwe army'. From now on, all Zimbabweans who arrive here claiming refugee status should be sent to a training facility in the Highlands of Scotland and trained up in the ways of war, We will then arm them and parachute them back into Zimbabwe and they will march on Harare and overthrow the beast. Then there would be no refugee crisis."
...and I think "fuck me..if only Dostoevsky hadn't been such a lazy fucker"..clearly he's finished The Idiot and he's moved onto Frederick Forsythe...it's a fuckin Dogs of War/Wild Geese mash up with young Narodnik Bonaparte playing Richard Burton.
Expect a few posts on life in the bush, "Jambo" and how they "don't like it up 'em Mr Mainwaring"...sorry but the kid's a deluded fantasist...probably best just to play along.
I'm very well thanks Hank - hope you are too - am still a bit ruff around the edges from last nights meet up, so booze-free night for me.... back to Catford in the morning to work at 10 (polishes halo);)
we're liberal enough to give free rein to fascists and "kill the poor" coalitionists, but we draw the line at those who expose our star writers as hypocrites, or throw rocks at the mimsy wankers who spend their working days gossipping with the daughter's editor and her best mate
CiF has sunk to new lows - it is the sheer hypocrisy of it all, the coddling of brain-dead, clever-dick halfwits like Glover who believe their own publicity, the flattery of their Oxford dons and their mediaborewhore boyfriend Parris - himself a smug self-satisfied, clever-dick who specialises in a superiority complex.
What's made me spit with rage is that they are tacitly qualifying the the BTL facists and "kill the poor" coalitionists' by giving the lifeblood of publicity to the Tory Party's mouthpiece in the form of Tim Montgomerie.
(I missed the WinstonRed's comment - I was losing the will to live reading the moderation thread)
As for potato picking, it probably sounds nice in a Thomas Hardy novel and looks nice in a Van Gogh sketch, but it might actually be hard work for little money.
If you are going to wish that on someone, why not go for Chuck Palahniuk's Survivor?
Then you could be part of a death-cult which sends its members out as servants to the stupid rich and who have to send their wages back to the cult management team.
Sorry, all this stuff around NapK is total nonsense. He sounds like any first or second year student to me, and if I hear two of them holding forth on the bus I might roll my eyes or whatever, but I'm not going to stomp over there and call them cunts. The point is, neither would any of you, because in the real world you moderate yourselves. You only do this sort of thing here because all the consequences (to yourself) have been removed by the anonymity, distance and text-on-the-screen interface.
Cif basically provides a space that is halfway between real life situations and internet space - the moderation means that it can't all descend into Lord of the Flies territory like this thing here with Napk.
...see I could go on there and say "we need a media which is either representative of the entire population or at least one which is open about its influences and allegiances..." and justifiably get wiped out for being offside or mooching in a mooch free zone or whichever guideline I'd be breaching...but any 'civilised' decent poster who just happens to be channelling Mad Mike Hoare's earth-bound spirit can put up any old fuckin plans for any old coup d'etat they fancy...
"I might roll my eyes or whatever, but I'm not going to stomp over there and call them cunts. The point is, neither would any of you, because in the real world you moderate yourselves. You only do this sort of thing here because all the consequences (to yourself) have been removed by the anonymity, distance and text-on-the-screen interface."
sorry..no...as soon as one of them started having a go and clearly identified me as the target they'd get a right mouthful
Sorry, all this stuff around NapK is total nonsense. He sounds like any first or second year student to me, and if I hear two of them holding forth on the bus I might roll my eyes or whatever, but I'm not going to stomp over there and call them cunts. The point is, neither would any of you, because in the real world you moderate yourselves.
The problem is that in the example you have given, the reason not to intrude is that the people are in their private space having a private conversation.
What they are saying is nothing to do with you, even if the physical surrounding permit you to hear it by accident.
On the internet - in discussion threads anyway - your comment becomes public and people are entitled to challenge it and if you do not like that, you have the choice not to post.
You also seem quite sure that people would not say in the real world what they say online.
I can assure you that if you work in some industries or even go into certain pubs, people will talk very "openly and directly".
The idea that the real world is more polite and constrained and we would not say there what we say here may apply in your case but will not necessarily be true of others.
Carry on guys, off to the legion, where my bullshit meter will be on and set to maximum. Some of those loggers can pile the shit pretty high. They don't know much about Zimbabwe either.
Oh, by the way, CiF and WADDYA also "belong" to The Guardian and it is up to GMG how it chooses to run and operate its site.
You may think you have an insight or interpretation of how things should go there, but it has no more validity than whatever is concocted by anyone else.
You may think you are a gatekeeper maintaining the purity of the brand but you are probably as out of step with what the business wants as anyone else.
All you can actually say is "I think" and hope you might be right - unless you are privy to the thoughts of those who actually run the show.
and if I hear two of them holding forth on the bus I might roll my eyes or whatever, but I'm not going to stomp over there and call them cunts.
No, I wouldn't walk up to complete strangers and call them cunts any more than I would walk up to them and say, "Agree completely". But if someone I know spouts bollocks within my earshot, I have no problem calling them on it.
I don't think I have any special insight into how Cif is, and I certainly don't see myself as any sort of gatekeeper or whatever. I was just describing how I find it as a user. And also where I think the benefits are of it being a moderated space.
You forgot "you-can't-delete-my-trite-and-recycled-liberal-leftie-social-worker-angst-I've-got-a-"C"-you-bastards-that-I've-shared-a-dinner-table-with"...
Cheers for that, Hank mate. I still post there. As do others here.
@Chekhov
Glad to hear you got back OK. See you soon in France, I hope.
@La Rit
Shaz only got home safely because I was there to stop her assaulting a platoon of London Transport police with a traffic cone. At her destination, she staggered off down the tunnel brandishing a ticket machine ripped from the hands of the guard, now slumped senseless in the aisle, and singing, "Come an' 'ave a go if you think you're 'ard enough," as I waited for the milk train. I wouldn't cross her...
Hank, don't take it too hard mate, Ally probably just couldn't see past the huge, dense cloud of hubris and melodrama that emanated from that post you wrote. You're probably right, the world just isn't ready for the truth - most messiahs were marginalised in their own time, if that's any comfort.
Oh blimey, just reading down the "moderation" thread on Cif the other day.
Some good posts from thauma, but the whole BB v Bitey/yanquapin thing...?
Jeez, could you be any more self-absorbed, BB?
Let it fucking go, for Christ's sake.
Bitey's banned. As has been Bitey 2, 3, 4 and 5, and yet you're still there, BB, getting all self-righteous about the fact that Bitey 1 gave you a hard time.
You've never been banned, BB, but you spend so much time getting so worked up about a guy who has got banned.
Do you ever sit back and think that you might be a bit precious?
Jeezus.
It strikes me as fucking typical of a middle class barrister living in Surrey that she should regard herself as a victim when she really isn't a victim.
Oh, I didn't take offence. Just thought there wasn't much point talking to you while you were ranting. I watched the last episode of Spooks instead. Gripping stuff.
Hi Bitters--Looks like you and me left. That B.B.King from Paul was excellent. So good that I get to see him live in Vancouver on Nov.5. I'm pumped to see him. 85, schmateyfive, the man has his own lovely style and tone, and he really enjoys himself. Cool.
Boudican Here's a fucking funny story... When I was just turned eighteen I INSISTED my GF at the time attended BB King in London, she said why, I said " Cos he's *old* - could die anytime soon". That was 1980.
Bitterweed, I liked those lyrics you removed, here have some more:
Because the world is cruel and Promises are broken Don't try to tell me Anything don't try to tell me You'll be true to me you know the Real truth is never spoken And I know the world is cold but If you hold on tight to what you Find you might not mind too much though Even this must pass away and Memories may last for years but Names are just for souvenirs
YOU LOT AREN'T HUNGOVER ARE YOU???
ReplyDelete;-)
Hope a good time was had by all!
Hi all, I was wondering that as well Dotteral.
ReplyDeleteIt must have been some party, just gone 9 and no sign of life at all!
Did they all find their way home?
Morning and morning after, all...
ReplyDeleteJust off to Ireland - take care of the place while I'm gone!
Dotterell -- shhhh , they're still recovering .
ReplyDeleteJohann Hari "Protest works. Just look at the proof."
If seventy enraged twitterers can shut down Vodafone in Oxford Street, what cannot be done to Atos and A4e and Co?
Please keep your voices down!
ReplyDeleteAbsofuckinglutely brilliant company last night.
Have fun in Ireland, Peter, and don't underdo it on the soda farls.
Make sure and get a taste of the poteen Peter, real 'rubber leg' stuff!
ReplyDeleteHope the hang overs aren't too bad! Had to laugh at "2hrs to go 50 miles" This morn it took me 1hr 40mins to go 15 miles (£8 return) on public transport. If you haven't had to rely on rural PT you'd have no idea. If I had to do it every day, it wouldn't be worth doing the job...
And I'd like to appologise for my comment last night about Mrs.T, I was steaming drunk, but that's no excuse for the terrible slander, to alcholics. ; )
LaRit here! Reporting for duty!
ReplyDeleteYes, Dott - don't shout too much, am in sore need of a fry up and more sleep ;( Thank god I can start werk later.
What a great night and what luvverly company - I can see Thauma made it back in one piece!!!!
Mr Chekhov came to stay in Brixton and Mr LaRit looked after him this morning before he beamed back up to the Enterprise ;)
My local radio station was playing Chesney Hawkes greatest hit this morning, I have an urge to sing it at the top of my voice.....
ReplyDeleteThanx Dave good Johan Hari article, restores faith in humanity, then follow this link, to have it all dashed away...
ReplyDelete@Dotterel
ReplyDeleteYou do that, I'll put sugar in your petrol tank.
ok.
@turminder
"I was steaming drunk, but that's no excuse for the terrible slander, to alcholics. ; ) "
Right on bro.
BW,
ReplyDeleteIf you can find my petrol tank....
"I am the...."
Talking about alcoholics, I can't believe what I have just seen on the Trisha show.
ReplyDeleteThey have two families on who are in bits because of the dads drinking and they have actually just awarded one of the dads a free detox and rehab.
They made a competition out of it!
What has the world come to?
Jen
ReplyDeleteFollowing yesterdays thread i thought you might like to see THIS CLIP OF Maggie Thatch getting all tired and emotional-allegedly!
Paul
ReplyDeleteNice one, I don't know why but the sound effects make it, I wonder if I will ever grow up enough to not find fart jokes funny. ;)
Morning, La Rit, Thaum et al.
ReplyDeleteI was very abstemious last night - just the five pints and a Côtes du Rhone nightcap when I got home - so I'm bright-eyed and bushy-tailed this morning.
As I said, it was a really great evening last night and we must do it again in France sometime.
Great idea, Spike! Mm, French food and wine....
ReplyDeleteAre there no photos then?
ReplyDeleteJust five pints Spike?
Doesn't sound that abstemious to me but I am a famous lightweight when it comes to drinking.
After 5 pints, I'd either be asleep, or dead, I reckon!!
ReplyDeleteJames
ReplyDeleteI could (and have) drink five pints easily but I would be very drunk at the end of it.
I certainly wouldn't be chipper the next day but that might be because after five pints another drink always seems like a good idea. ;)
Jen - Phillipa may have some photo's to post.
ReplyDeleteGreat to meet everyone there last night. We of course left early to have an easy drive home - La Rit - you would not have believed the even more intense hassle of getting outta that place, as compared to the frustration of getting there !.
Apologies in advance to all you Londonite dwellers, but you are all fecking mad !.
Note to self: 'Don't ever volunteer to drive into the heart of London again'. Re: Blood pressure, stress, Road rage, Traffic Jams, Traffic lights every 25 yards, Push bikes, pedestrians, taxi drivers, Road works..... Aahhhhhh !!!!
Left @ 10.30, got home 12:45. Once you get to the M40. 50 mins to home with your boot down.. Nearly 1.5 hours to escape from the centre..
All well worth it though, just for the chance to meet up !
I have to stop drinking. Last night 8 pints of cider, well 5 pints and 3 cans of 6% stuff. 17-18 units. Thats average. I didn't have a drink for three weeks in March, to see if I could do it, and seee if I had the DT's (Didn't) But with that brief period excepted, I drink 10-20 units every day.
ReplyDeleteGF is 'seriously worried'.
Job finishes this weekend, so won't be able to aford it soon. Keep telling myself, if I stop taking massive quantities of a depressant, perhaps I'll be less deprressed...
tascia
ReplyDeleteYou are so right about London, I can see the benefits of living there, re jobs and the like but it is a hellish place to travel in.
Whenever I visit my sister, who lives in Rickmansworth, I have to go to London first.
I normally try to get there very early in the morning to avoid the worst of the rush but whenever I have had to get there later the sheer madness of it has left me angry and frustrated.
It takes hours to get from the outskirts to the centre (this is on the bus)and the tube is horrendous at rush hour.
The idea of living with that every day does not appeal at all, I know public transport in the provinces is bad but the worst we have to put up with is being late, I have never feared for my life like I did when I was caught up in the mob travelling on the circle line in the rush hour, it's scary and horrible.
tascia
ReplyDeleteIndeed, it's like one of those nightmares where some terrible beast with horrible breath is trying to suck you into its gigantic gaping maw and the only thing you can use to climb away is a roll of cheap toilet paper....
Jen,
ReplyDeleteI'm interested to see how my body would react now.
Might be time for a little 'experiment'!!*
Turm,
I used to drink shedloads, but I just sort of stopped.
It wasn't really for any reason, and to be honest, I'm not sure I feel any 'better' for it.
Each to their own and all that. (I still smoke loads...)
* If at any point in the near future, I start posting 'I fucking love you guys', shortly followed by, 'What's the fucking point, it's all shit...', ye shall know it hath begun(eth)!
Cheers James. I quit tobacco 10 years ago, but still like a smoke, I know my personality and thus avoid the bookies.
ReplyDeleteI went for a scan last year and my liver has fatty deposits, (I'm also over weight) which are attributable to the sauce.
Can't seem to cut down, because after five pints another drink always seems like a good idea & a couple or three whiskys. it'll have to be cold turkey I reckon...
Turm
ReplyDeleteI hope that you are ok and I can understand why you (and GF) are worried, it is so easy for drinking levels to sneak up to dangerous levels.
I worry about my own drinking but like you said not having any money will soon help you to give your liver a break.
I've got to say though that stopping drinking to see if you get the DTs is a pointless exercise, my dad and one of my exs were both alcohol dependent, I don't know much about what my dad went through when he tried to stop but from living with the ex I do know that DTs are not something that happen to many people.
Sweating, shaking, vomiting, depression (sometimes suicidal) and anxiety are all common withdrawal symptoms but the DTs are not.
With him the symptoms he got only lasted, at most, a week, after which he felt great and of course led to him thinking that he wasn't an alcoholic and so back to the drink.
It is something that has had a big effect on my life so sorry if I am going on.
Turm,
ReplyDeleteYeah, that doesn't sound good!!
Fingers crossed for you...
AFK for a bit, have a good afternoon all...
>>so sorry if I am going on.
ReplyDeleteNot at all Jenn, tis good to talk...
I had a shitty break up in 2001, the booze crept up then, and despite being very happy relationshipwise the last 4 years (my liking for)the booze hasn't gone away.
I had no symptoms whatsoever when I stopped, and like you say felt great and of course led to him thinking that he wasn't an alcoholic and so back to the drink.
My name is Paz, I am an alcholic, and a stoner. But I'm going cold turkey with Cif.
Also Turm, cold turkey without a bit of medical intervention is not a great idea, it can turn bad very quickly.
ReplyDeleteFrom my experience doctors are worse than useless at dealing with alcohol problems in the long term but a few tranquilizers when you are detoxing can be a life saver.
Will think about that Jenn, my ex was known as the solpadine queen, (five 12 pks a week) so reluctant to start taking something else...
ReplyDeleteI'll mebee speak to the quack, but reckon I'll just stop... til xmas.
turm they don't just hand you a fistful of tranqs anymore, they will start you off with a high dose and reduce it quickly over a period of one to two weeks, like I said I am not impressed by the way alcohol dependant people are treated by the medical profession but they have the detox stuff down to a fine art.
ReplyDeleteOnce you are clean they will tell you to go to AA or offer counselling, with someone who has no expertise in addiction.
At least that was my experience.
Don't get me started on the religious cult that is AA.
AA = transfered dependance. I'll steer well clear.
ReplyDeleteI mostly post from work, and that's finished on sunday, so I'm gonna have less idle time with a fast internet connection. Am pretty bored with cif, but I like it here and will try to pop by as much as possible.
'I fucking love you guys' but 'What's the fucking point, it's all shit.. ; )
Turm
ReplyDeleteVery funny. ;)
Don't disappear though, that would be really worrying.
I hope one of your jobs comes up, but if they don't spend the winter looking after yourself.
x
Oh and if you ever want to talk Turm get my email from Montana.
ReplyDeleteThanx Jenn, I ain't going anywhere soon : )
ReplyDeleteJust read the indie article about 'A Simples Life' - Says something rather uncomplimentary about 'Western Civilisation' doesn't it?
ReplyDeleteWE really are amusing ourselves to death No?
Glad you had a good nite out last night!
When's the next one?
New record
ReplyDelete1 post...instant deletion and ban...and Jess whatsherface called me a 'troll'...all within 8 minutes...brilliant work CIF
from "ThatsTheWayIRoll"
It's an editorial decision we always struggle with: do we run a perfectly fine piece, knowing the thread will be full of abuse
You don't know it will be full of abuse; you know it will contain many comments which you and the rest of the editorial team don't agree with; anything which is clearly abusive or racist can be deleted. It's the other stuff..the stuff which wouldn't ever be voiced at your average Islington dinner party you've got problems with...the fact that you lump it all together under the blanket term of abuse and, as you hint, "struggle" with the decision to publish or not rather hints at the fact that in pursuing your editorial line you're actually following an agenda...which is cool...it's your ball after all...and so you can decide who gets to play...but then why not just make it clear what the agenda is and then everyone knows where they stand?
The notion that you should veer away from certain topics because some other people have opinions on said topic which you find distasteful is pitiful. Just what kind of a news organisation can you claim to be when you remain silent on matters which arouse passionate (if unfortunate) points of view? If you really only want to provoke debate in areas where, to all intents and purposes, there is already a consensus then you're not really hosting a medium for debate at all...just a site for reinforcing the Guardian's own position..however shaky and unfounded that position may be.
For instance, on immigration, does the Guardian believe that an open door policy is the best option? The thing is you'll never say. You want the option of hinting that anybody who points out the negative consequences of immigration is probably a touch 'unreconstructed' or xenophobic but at the same time, you can't actually deny that many people...mainly working class, obviously...have been severely impacted by immigration both in terms of employment opportunities, earnings and public services...you just seem to want the option of coming over all superior and egalitarian whenever anybody complains too much...which is a spineless, chickenshit intellectual cop-out as per..
continued...
ReplyDeleteOr feminism...the is a very strong relativistic streak at CIF which seems to accept the existence of feminist 'narratives' and indeed, a feminist 'epistemology'. Now, it's not unreasonable...certainly not misogynistic to claim feminist epistemology as an oxymoron...after all epistemology has as its raw material, knowledge. The very idea that feminist knowledge is different to knowledge totally devalues the term knowledge-not to mention truth. Rather feminist epistemology is the collective term for feminist opinion...there is, however, an insidious tendency to support any claims (some wide-sweeping and so ubiquitous that we might even call them "feminist truisms") made by feminist writers with links to studies carried out by other groups of feminists (no doubt utilising all the proven techniques of feminist statistics and feminist sampling) which purport to back them. You seem quite happy on such occasion to allow posters disputing the findings of these studies to be labelled "misogynist"...not for any statement demeaning women..but often for making salient technical points...the unrepresentative nature of the sample or the reliance on self-identification etc.
Again..this is unfair and unworthy.
My main gripe, however, is the Guardian's continued denial of class as a social reality. Your choice of the wife of Boris Johnson's old Etonian, ex-merchant banker, Tory MP brother to investigate long term unemployment in one of the poorest and bleakest areas in the country is a case in point. I'm sure in a world where class, class consciousness and class differences no longer exist, such a choice would make perfect sense...but in the world where the rest of us live, where disparity grows daily and there is a virtual chasm between the lives of the people in the article and the lives of the liberal media bubble, it felt like an artless, graceless attempt to push the "we're all in this together" hymn-sheet...in fact, it felt like a smack in the face to anyone interested in equality.
------------------------------------------------
Thank god they got it taken down so soon before the vicious lies and abuse corrupted someone
btw
ReplyDeleteJess whoever..
since you're now trying little humorous quips and digs at my expense, how about you nip over here and try it..without the safety net?
Afternoon lovelies.
ReplyDeleteJust popped by to congratulate ThatsTheWayIRoll on the fastest banning in Cif history. That was awesome.
Giyus will be green with envy.
Hi turm - cutting down or even cutting it out for a wee while does sound a good idea.
ReplyDeletedo you mind me asking. When the docs told you about your fatty liver did they tell you to stop drinking or to cut down? Or didn't they say anything re that at all?
Well done Monkeyfish.
ReplyDeleteNice one monkeyfish.Talk about gone in a flash!
ReplyDeleteI can't understand why that post was taken down MF? Nothing abusive there.
ReplyDeleteGood points raised too.
I think the examples given are worthy of debate not deletion.
is it because they know who you are and just delete anything you put up? (Although how could they?)
Glad to hear that everyone had a good time last night.
ReplyDeleteNo school today, as parent-teacher conferences were yesterday. I heard the same thing I always hear: "He's a very bright boy and so capable of doing the work, but he just doesn't get things done." I'm trying to spare you a rant here about how I told her before school started that she would have to keep close tabs on him or he'd get behind, because he gets bored with lots of writing assignments & worksheets. But I want to fucking scream. She didn't realise until grades hat to be turned in last week that he'd hardly turned anything in! So, the times when I asked her how he was doing, and she told me that he was doing just fine -- she actually didn't have a clue.
AAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHH!
MF
ReplyDeleteIf you were to wipe the smug self satisfied grin off her face you would be my hero forever!
MF/Princess
ReplyDeleteIn a perverse sort of way i'd take it as a compliment that the post was zapped so quickly even though it wasn't breaking any rules.But something tells me it's likely to be 'reincarnated' at some stage :-)
is it because they know who you are and just delete anything you put up?
ReplyDeleteHmm. I think it would be an interesting experiment for a banned poster to come back with two new identities at the same time. One identity would be a Waddaya luvvie, one would post things like what MF did above. See how long each of the IDs lasted. If they were both banned equally quickly, we'd know that the moderators were being even-handed and consistent.
Anyone want to take bets on the likelihood?
Another interesting experiment would be for one of us who only has one, non banned, identity to repost it,
ReplyDeletenot sure I've got the cajones...
monkeyfish
ReplyDeleteThey seem to have a new system, which is perhaps either flagging up for consideration or automatically logging and deleting IP addresses.
You could try using a proxy server for registration, which would then hide you behind a different IP address.
Obviously, it tends to show where they are putting their resources and probably shows how empty the whole "What do you think of moderation?" malarkey really was, other than allowing the obsequious element to make little waves and signals, squealing "Ooh, pick me, pick me! I'll do exactly as I am told and tell everyone how wonderful CiF is. I'll even get me mates to join if your wonderfulnesses slip me a couple of quid."
So, if you have spent several years doing very little other than ensuring that you can control your users and peddle an ideological line at the same time as pretending that you are hosting an open debate and then you find they don't like it, what would be your next move?
Would you:
A. Relax the control and risk opening the site to various opinions, allowing your star posters and key demographic to be confronted with ideas they do not like?
B. Crack down even harder on dissent and turn your brainwashed users into bounty-hunters to assist you in silencing voices which contradict your ideology?
Now, given the way CiF and The Guardian have behaved in the past and that this really presents Natalie Hanman with a chance to show that she could at least attempt to change things for the better, which way will they jump?
Tricky one, isn't it?
So, that'll be stifling debate, deleting opinions you don't like and more rapid and effective banning.
Montana
ReplyDeleteI was recently banned under one name and thought I would use an unused name which I had set up about the same time.
I was banned before I had even used it, which would tend to indicate a link to IP noting, at least.
Dotterel
I think I have run out and have not, so far, bothered to register a new one.
I'll be interested to see whether Hanman attempts to lie her way out of the moderation/banning business or if she just says they will do what they like and fuck their users.
AB
ReplyDeleteI meant someone who'd never been banned, under any username, like me...
Go Ally!
ReplyDeleteDotterel
ReplyDeleteYes, I knew what you meant. I was just saying I couldn't do it.
Someone could give it a go, perhaps with a preface of:
I saw this post was deleted but thought it was a point worth making and discussing.
That would have to be up to the individual. Some may not want to blot their copybook.
Yes, well done AllyF.
ReplyDeleteAlso, nice to see NapKar keeping truth alive:
Also the haters give themelsves away-- they sign up for Cif, and go straight onto WADDYA to hurl abuse and ad homs. They are not being banned becuase of who they were, but because of what they say.
However, as OZKTB29 or whatever his name is said, essentially:
It's not what you say that causes the problems, it's the fact that we don't like the tone with which you say it
On a slightly related note, apparently some fella's just been *jailed* for being an Internet troll....
ReplyDeleteHe was pretty offensive by the sounds of it, but still, slippery slope, anyone??
Erm, as you were....
ReplyDeleteQuick note to Napoleon
ReplyDeleteSince your entire posting oeuvre seems motivated by a grievance: namely wherever you go people think you're a dick...and this leads you to conclude you're a genius who just isn't properly appreciated, I'd like to offer this piece of advice as balance: maybe you are actually a dick.
Note to Martyn
"That's a hell of a lot of words to simply ask if Cif can be like something completely different."
But Martyn..it was deleted...and then there was a banning...and it's still the topic of discussion. That's how to post Martyn.
18000 plus posts of uniform forgettability which are all either paraphrased from wikipedia or just your basic "Look at me, Jess" are never going to achieve this. And since you're clearly such a silly spineless little man who only runs up and sticks the boot in once the victim's laid out on the floor helpless...don't bother sunshine...it just makes you look even more pathetic.
Atomboy
ReplyDelete"They seem to have a new system, which is perhaps either flagging up for consideration or automatically logging and deleting IP addresses."
They're definitely doing something different. They've just banned me before my first post...I was "Text Me Ishmael"...a name that was unfortunately still-born. Maybe they took advice from ShitForBrains in Europe or EnglishFuckwit..who know's?..but it seems very important to them that I'm not allowed to post anything.
Haha, hadn't seen dotterels & Atomboy's posts when I did that. I wouldn't normally repost deleted comments, but once Jess had signified that it was the messenger rather than the message that was at fault, they'd have looked pretty daft if they'd deleted it again.
ReplyDeleteI think that comment from OZK is broadly correct:
"It's not what you say that causes the problems, it's the fact that we don't like the tone with which you say it "
Added to two other things:
1. Cif will let a hell of a lot of ugly posts stand, but are ludicrously sensitive to criticism. If "ThatsTheWayIRoll" had had any other target, I doubt he would have been zapped.
2. Don't want to jab a stick in a hornets nest, but some of the shit that has gone down on WDYWTTA since the days of Melissa and Mavis has been seriously fucking unpleasant for everyone involved. In the same way that the mods and their narks are on constant hairtrigger lookout for Giyus, they're now also on a hair-trigger for anyone with a particular style of comment and opinion. Pen probably voiced what they're thinking, when he said something like "yes, that post was reasonable but you just wonder what's coming next"
And of course that's a piss poor way to moderate a comment site, but I suspect it is the way things are.
Evening all
ReplyDeleteFab time yesterday evening - what a fantastic bunch! I was a real feckin lightweight though and snuck off about 10is as I had serious school this morning.
So nice to meet everyone IRL and realise they are just as brill if not briller.
Looking forward to Leam now...
Anyhoo, it's Friday night, my day has been shit-on-a-stick (although the prosecutor was feeling as bad I was too, so we were doing formation coughing throughout).
Feet up, browsing Cif, glass of wine... sorted....
Hi Ally [waves]
ReplyDeleteGreat post MF, glad its parked here.
PCC Quack said nothing about cutting down etc. Was very 'neutral'
Am off to works nite out, but have last two shifts Sat & Sun, so can't go for a good kick at the ball.
Catch youse all tmra.
P x
AllyF
ReplyDeleteI'll just make a minor correction, although I hate to be picky.
The, "It's not what you say..." quote above is me.
OZKT29B said on WADDYA:
"The antagonistic tone aside, those two points deserve separate threads to themselves."
The other evening on this site, he complained about "the obnoxious tone" - from memory - which meant that posts could hardly expect to be allowed to stand, if they could not tug their forelock and give a little bow of servitude, when in the presence of magnificent posters on CiF.
You mention "seriously fucking unpleasant" episodes on WADDYA. I have not seen them and the problem I have is when people there just assume that anyone who posts there who they do not like MUST come from here - or, more simply and just as inaccurately, be GIYUS.
You picked up on translated saying that anyone mentioning Islington dinner-parties should expect to be banned.
It seems to have got to the stage where people are no longer aware of what constitutes a good reason for deletion or banning.
It now seems to be simply:
If I don't like what you say.
Anyway, in a rush but back later.
AB
ReplyDeleteSorry for the misattribution!
the problem I have is when people there just assume that anyone who posts there who they do not like MUST come from here - or, more simply and just as inaccurately, be GIYUS.
I agree.
Agree with the rest too.
Wotcha ally!
ReplyDeleteA video you might like....
Thaum was relieved to find out last night that my other half has no truck with my bizarre music tastes and is more on her side of the scale :o)
@Atomboy
ReplyDeleteThe other evening on this site, he complained about "the obnoxious tone" - from memory - which meant that posts could hardly expect to be allowed to stand, if they could not tug their forelock and give a little bow of servitude, when in the presence of magnificent posters on CiF.
There's some distance between tugging your forelock and simply not-acting-like-an-arse.
People self-police arseholish behaviour in real life - for instance, the other night your charming mate heyhabib calls me a twat, out of the blue. If we were in a pub, he'd keep that to himself, or say it and risk getting a slap. Or another real-life parallel - if we were sat in my living room and someone starts a caustic and amusing personal attack on other people present, I'd ask them to leave. I bet you would as well.
Thankfully for habib and others, there's lots of unmoderated spaces on-line where you can unleash your inner arsehole unchecked. I'm glad that Cif isn't one of them, and that's got nothing to do with 'inconvenient' ideas and everything to do with avoiding people who act like arseholes, just like you would in real life.
That's why I think the tone of your posts matters, and why I don't buy the idea that you and MF are martyrs who dared to speak the truth.
...although MF - that post was great, and the subsequent banning probably made half your point for you.
ReplyDeleteGOLEMXIV also on an angry roll here . On the whole idea of UK PLC, what the Hell IS a 'Stakeholder',while millions of ordinary citizens lose their jobs, everyone sees their country sold out from under their feet, to pay off 'bondholders. That is slowly and belatedly changing, with Germany now refusing to continue EuroState bail-outs for them. Ambrose E-P, Torygraph.
ReplyDeleteI to the Vizzo
ReplyDeleteThe problem with this is that style or tone can appeal or not on a personal level in much the way that the style of a novelist may seem to resonate at a personal level with some people and actually seem quite repulsive to others.
The most obvious element of style which is frequently missed or misinterpreted online is irony - or so people frequently say.
Just because you don't like the way someone says something does not mean you are in a position to act as arbiter or judge for others, which is why we say play the comment, not the person making it.
I have been accused of making nasty ad hominem attacks on WADDYA and this has been used as justification for reporting me. The problem is, I have not done this, so someone is simply guessing - and guessing wrongly.
Sheffpixie posted a comment here some weeks ago about a person playing the violin in a New York subway, the case placed open for people to drop change into as they passed.
Mothers were seen to drag their small children past the violinist, despite the fact they wanted to listen. Adults scurried and tripped past, looking the other way or ostentatiously starting loud jabbering conversations in order to blot out the music and the man playing.
The violinist was an internationally acclaimed virtuoso and the piece he played was notoriously considered to be virtually impossible to play.
It depends how we look at things.
There are a lot of people I think are arseholes, as you put it.
Sometimes, I just pass over what they have written and sometimes I read it and use it to ponder whether they are actually arseholes or if it might just be me.
What I do not think is that they should be deleted, censored or banned just because I do not like their style or tone or the fact that I disagree with what they say.
monkeyfish 17.51 said...
ReplyDeleteQuick note to Napoleon
Since your entire posting oeuvre seems motivated by a grievance: namely wherever you go people think you're a dick...and this leads you to conclude you're a genius who just isn't properly appreciated, I'd like to offer this piece of advice as balance: maybe you are actually a dick.
A point you might like to consider, MF, is that napoleon has said many dickish things, being young confused etc, but that he is not necessarily for ever more , a 'dick'?
Not everyone evolves, but quite a lot do! The power of the net is that youthful misperceptions and arrogances are displayed for all to see. If irrc Nap gave an example of a plant in Stornoway recruiting directly in Estonia, that's the real Biz ? Free movement of Labour, and even more so Capital , is one of the real problems.
I am just going to drop these here without comment.
ReplyDeleteNapoleonKaramazov
29 October 2010 7:09PM
I'm sorry Ally, but your long post certainly did constitutse personal abuse. The talk o the journalist whose husband is a Tory MP, therefore the banned posted implying that she is in no postion to do her job.
I would guess that the banned poster is from a website where they love to make a big thing about not having a moderation system, but oh surprise, *some people* should be 'moderated' from writing for a national newspaper.
The offending piece...
My main gripe, however, is the Guardian's continued denial of class as a social reality. Your choice of the wife of Boris Johnson's old Etonian, ex-merchant banker, Tory MP brother to investigate long term unemployment in one of the poorest and bleakest areas in the country is a case in point. I'm sure in a world where class, class consciousness and class differences no longer exist, such a choice would make perfect sense...but in the world where the rest of us live, where disparity grows daily and there is a virtual chasm between the lives of the people in the article and the lives of the liberal media bubble, it felt like an artless, graceless attempt to push the "we're all in this together" hymn-sheet...in fact, it felt like a smack in the face to anyone interested in equality.
And I didn't bother to even read the rest so who knows what other things there might be. It refers to Amelia Gentleman, who is a top class journalist and writer, here piece I believe she referred to was excellent. Her works are generally excellent, and if you look back to last year when she did a piece about the Zurich suicide clinics and the people who work there, I said that it ought to be awarded the best article of the year (this post go the most recommends). But of course to some people only their personal situations count. Why is she not allowed to report on poverty if she has a Tory MP?
AllyF
29 October 2010 7:24PM
Napoleon
I'm sorry Ally, but your long post certainly did constitutse personal abuse. The talk o the journalist whose husband is a Tory MP, therefore the banned posted implying that she is in no postion to do her job.
You have a very strange definition of personal abuse. Fair enough, you can disagree with the post (and for that matter with me) about the appropriateness of using Amelia Gentleman to write a profile of people's lives in South Bank, Middlesbrough, but it is utter bobbins to describe that opinion as abuse. If that is abuse, then just about every post on Cif should be deleted.
"And I didn't bother to even read the rest so who knows what other things there might be. It refers to Amelia Gentleman, who is a top class journalist and writer, here piece I believe she referred to was excellent. Her works are generally excellent, and if you look back to last year when she did a piece about the Zurich suicide clinics and the people who work there, I said that it ought to be awarded the best article of the year (this post go the most recommends). But of course to some people only their personal situations count. Why is she not allowed to report on poverty if she has a Tory MP?"
Personally I think it is tactless, it smacks of sending an anthropologist to look at the poor people in a funny part of a distant land. I also thought the article was weak and patronising, but I accept that is a judgement call.
I have no problem with you or others disagreeing with that post. But just because you disagree with it doesn't mean it should be deleted. Strewth.
NapoleonKaramazov
29 October 2010 7:37PM
It was still a low shot Ally, below the belt. Anyway, Friday night beckons..
Evening all.
ReplyDeleteGlad to hear that a good time was had by those at the meet up last night, and only a little rabidly jealous!
Rather enjoying Fripp (on Radio 2 now) whilst catching up with the latest in the banning saga.
Fripp?! I mean Robert Plant of course.
ReplyDeleteThe problem for many of us who have been banned and were actually around from the very early days is that the impression in many cases is that CiF actually wants, as a matter of policy, to moderate on the "intellectual" level of the above.
ReplyDeleteThis is why I have said that we probably have the reputation and functionality of CiF more in mind than those people who have the authority to debase and ruin it and seem to be hell-bent on doing so.
CiF at the moment seems to be like a drunken trapeze artist, lurching and wobbling between falling from the wire into the pit filled with klaxons and whoopie-cushions labelled "Laughing Stock" and the slimy pond bubbling with frog-spawn and excrement signposted "Gutter Press."
It could try to get to the other side, where it could stand safely on the platform marked "Intellectual Rigour and Integrity."
So, will it be a sticky splash or a series of bouncy honks and parps?
Spot on Jenn (and Ally).
ReplyDeleteMontana - I am just kinda hoping he will grow out of it. I was a dipshit at 22 as well. And, as you say, the correlary of that is, of course, that what he says can't be taken too seriously right now. He has some hard knocks to come.
Montana
ReplyDeleteI am not angry with you.
Sorry about the stories concerning the American Marines.
Just to make matters worse, Clive Stafford Smith said that America is happy to go to war, as long as it is with the implied assurance that no American gets hurt in the process.
BB I am still a dipshit but I have never been daft enough to parrot the 'immigrants, 20 to a room, stealing all our jobs' line.
ReplyDeleteIf you are reading this Nap then you really need to get a grip.
Actually Nap really did say, on the thread about the Romanian children being found doing harvesting, that fit and healthy young men should travel the country, living in caravans, picking spuds because it would be like a Thomas Hardy novel.
ReplyDeleteSome gibberish should not be excused.
Glad good time was had by all last night. Given what a polemical lot most of us are it's amazing we all get on so well when we meet up!
ReplyDeleteInteresting article from Countercurrents
By understanding that money is simply credit, we unleash it as a powerful tool for our communities
The bankers have engaged in what amounts to a massive fraud, not necessarily because they started out with criminal intent (although that cannot be ruled out), but because they have been required to in order to come up with the commodities (in this case real estate) to back their loans. It is the way our system is set up: The banks are not really creating credit and advancing it to us, counting on our future productivity to pay it off, the way they once did under the deceptive but functional façade of fractional reserve lending.
Instead, they are vacuuming up our money and lending it back to us at higher rates. In the shadow banking system, they are sucking up our real estate and lending it back to our pension funds and mutual funds at compound interest. The result is a mathematically impossible pyramid scheme, which is inherently prone to systemic failure.
'ning all
ReplyDeleteglad everyone that went had a good time down the pub......
montana
you have my support on the nap thang him and muttonineurope really are a waste of e space tbh....but fit nicely into the spineless, brown-nosing commentators of the year category
the hypocrisy of the graun is reaching a historical high, the majority of articles bland at the best and at the worst offensive revisionism cite peter preston: "pinochet was an ok bloke really" as example.......
anyway holiday weekend here and berlusconi scandal again (*sighs, mumbles profanities and reaches for a glass of grappa*) ........young Moroccan girl: abuse of power, underage prostitution and basically being a complete dickhead bastard.......so nowt new there......
@Atomboy:
ReplyDeleteOh, I never thought you were and certainly wasn't offended by any of the stories about the US military the other day. Remeber, I'm a self-hating Yank.
I to the Vizzo
ReplyDelete"the other night your charming mate heyhabib calls me a twat"
Three things; you're a big cry-baby, no I didn't and I think you are one, now.
A few days ago you came on here to attack Atomboy: "That’s compared to the towering figure carved from pure integrity that you represent, presumably?"
I laughed at your motivation.
You asked "What's my motivation?" a familiar question when directing actors.
I replied: "Feel the emotion, Vizzo, believe you are a twat and you will be one, Come on! Take two... and... action!"
Up until now, I would suggest, it was only your self awareness that considered you to be a twat. A fine attribute, if you welcome it's honesty.
Like a Thomas Hardy novel, I am still shocked that anyone with a functioning brain could say that like it is a good thing.
ReplyDeleteHas he actually read a Hardy novel, daft old git that he was but he never backed down from describing life for the poor like it was, brutal and nasty.
I honestly despair, the working class young are, in a lot of cases, uncaring about politics and the middle class youth are pining for hard labour and caravans.
We are doomed.
BB " I was a dipshit at 22 as well."
ReplyDeleteMe too, thankfully I didn't have the net to broadcast it !
NN all -- goin to watch a vid to numb my brain against this increasingly difficult- to- support world . XX !
For what it's worth, I'm giving The Indy most of my time and page hits now, because I think the G's got one, maybe two years left before Mr Rushbridger is seen trying to fend off the bailifs with a fair-trade, organic muffin and an imaginary forcefield made out of progressiveness and former glories...
ReplyDeleteUnless of course, they do get the job as official mouthpiece for the administration, although I'm pretty sure the Daily Mail's got that one in the bag!!
Night Dave, it is great to see you back, I hope the problems you were having have worked themselves out. x
ReplyDeleteDave
ReplyDelete"Me too, thankfully I didn't have the net to broadcast it ! "
I know. It was only my immediate entourage that ever knew what an inconsequential airhead I was. It still slips through from time to time now, too (shut up, Scherfig! :p)
And the trouble with the internet is that you can say the most amazingly profound thing at 2am and think that you are awesome, and half a gazillion people have already seen it, commented on it and called you an eejet by the time you read it in the cold light of day the next morning....
Bon soir,tout le monde:
ReplyDeletecrikey, you southerners are such a bunch of woosies. That was like going out on the "lash" with the bloody "Temperence Society"!
BB and Spike spent the whole evening talking common sense, (quite where they think that will get us I've no idea)
That Phillipa girl is way too smart for her own good (I'll try and find the number for the helpline)
Tascia had to take Thauma home early 'coz she kept falling over.
@Shazz;flattery will get you everywhere (with me at least!)
As for La Rit: clearly certifiable, the girl is stark raving bonkers. Mind you, it's a prerequisite of living in London that you have to be a couple of sandwiches short of a pic-nic
Oh and BTW I didn't bargain on having to re-mortgage my house to pay for a round of drinks!
Seriously though, top night out and great company and thanks to La Rit for putting me up.
Ps: Mr La Rit makes a wicked cup of tea.
Have learned through my meeja contacts (heh..heh..) there are concerns that Thatcher may be pegging out. Of course they could be wrong but we can live in hope!
ReplyDeleteChekhov
ReplyDeleteYou can't have a decent cup of tea down south, the water is all wrong. ;)
Back from work not 30 mins and just wanted to say how much I enjoyed last night So just swinging by to say an evening 'hiya'all and esp....BB, Spike, Tascia, Thauma, Shaz (heloooo??? did you get home safely?) n Chekhov too... a long trip home :)
ReplyDeleteTascia - Spent the day in Catford today (very, very deprived area with high unemployment - but very nice people) and it's occurred to me just how damaging heavy traffic is to people - many parts of S.London, with high poverty concentrations, are dominated by very busy roads.... In this day and age, we should be thinking of how to separate people from traffic - it should be a human right not to have to suffer that every day ;(
BTW:Jenn, I didn't take the car down but if I'm planning to drive to another UT gig I'll give you a shout.
ReplyDeleteOh...and I was a complete twat at 22...thank christ indeed there was no internet for me to broadcast my idiocy all over!
ReplyDeleteThatcher dying? Tell me it's true.
ReplyDeleteJust kidding, I don't wish her dead, I want her to live for a long long time with her Alzhiemers letting up enough for her to really feel the pain.
I want her to suffer.
It makes me feel dirty to wish real pain on someone but I will learn to live with it.
Sheff for you......
ReplyDelete"Cllr Anderson, a grandmother who led the Eppleton Area Miners' Wives Support Group during the strike, also flatly refused to retract her comments about the former Conservative leader.
"I'm a miner's widow," she said. "I remember 84/85 as if it was yesterday.
"I hate Thatcher for what she did to my community, what she did to the ordinary people who live here."
She added: "I stand by what I said."
The comment was made during an exchange with Dominic McDonough, 21, who stood for the Conservatives in May’s council elections.
In response to his comment about his adoration for Baroness Thatcher, Cllr Anderson wrote: "Well dear Dominic, you can delete me from your page but you can't delete me from here, haha, I hope she BURNS IN HELL."
says it nicely......but hell seems an easy option....
Chekov
ReplyDeleteIt was a bloody school night! Well, except for Shaz and Philibee who were on their hols...
I will endeavour to drink more than two and a half pints next time.
And yes, you do need a bloody second mortgage in London pubs... bastards.
LaRit - south east London is pretty grim. When Phil first said about the meet I thought she had said "Camberwell Green" not Clerkenwell,and my first thought was "shit, I'm not going out there at night on me own". I have spent more than my fair share in the mags and youth courts there and it's really depressing.
That was where I had a charming young 13 yr old tell me to "Fuck off, you fat cow". And I was representing him.
Sheff but at 22 did you even think, never mind post, that we should be aiming to live in a Thomas Hardy novel?
ReplyDeleteI know I didn't, even at that age I knew that the idea of the happy peasant was stupid.
True dat, Jenn
ReplyDeleteRelax habib, in reality I am a bit of a twat. It just stung that you had me pegged so quickly.
ReplyDeleteThe treatment being meted out to NapK gives a perfect example of why moderation is a good thing. Again, imagine all of us in a room, and all of you rounding on the youngest one there and giving him all this bile, in person. Do your live through scenes like that in your day-to-day lives? No? Then why do it on-line?
Jenn
ReplyDeleteI wouldn't have minded being called Bathsheba Everdene.....
TurminderX
ReplyDeleteIf you're around, re: drinking and the fatty deposits on the liver - I'm supposed to have some blood tests and I'm terrified because I drink too much. It is better to know though, so I will get them done next week - you've spurred me on ;)
It goes in cycles with me and I have been able to give up completely for long periods of time and also drink in moderation. I had an alcoholic ex and I think that he changed my drinking habits, then my Dad dying was the clincher - it went out of control. I tried AA (they're nutjobs and not to be messed with and they don't deal with the real issues - it's like shaming people into not drinking and people frequently lapse)
The best thing I found was a local, drop in support group called Crossroads - you didn't have to stop drinking to attend and be treated sympathetically and with respect(although many chronic drinkers who attended had successfully managed it) It was a completely non-judgemental environment and I think that is the main reason it was so successful. They offered free ear acupuncture (proven to help with addiction), detox tea, shiatsu massage.... and sanctuary ;)
It really, really helped me and it was the maddest collection of people you'd ever wish to meet - little old West Indian grannies, white middle class 20 somethings, middle aged Irish fellas, street drinkers, ex-junkies and crack addicts who had turned to drink to deal with the abstention from very, very tough addictions - you name it, they were there.
But everyone helped and supported each other - it was a leveller and if it hadn't been for that, I think I would never have reached an equilibrium as it helped to diminish my anger and rage as well as my dependence on alcohol.
The trouble for me is, it's the easiest thing to turn to in a crisis and these last 4 years have seen both my anger and my drinking increase - reasons being living in such precarious circumstances. I'm hoping that now I've finally found work,(and that MrLarit is in steady employment after 4 years of uncertainty because of his health and nearly 18 months unemployed) work that suits me and that I enjoy and I feel respected in, that leaves me time to do my own thing, I will now have the strength to diminish my need to drink to excess as frequently and help me to start being more creative and productive.
Your work situation is a very negative and difficult one (I was really hoping you'd managed to find something) but please, please, don't lose heart and don't beat yourself up about the booze......but do look after yourself and take the warning about your liver seriously.
I think volunteer-run support groups like Crossroads are all over the country - some investigation might well bear fruit and if you are going to be unemployed for a little while, it's a good time to do it, they are always free and there are some very, very kind souls out there who will respect you first as a human being but never as a 'problem drinker' and who will not judge.
(PS In my experience, GP's are worse than useless, very many they do not understand how to tackle a drinking problem in a positive way)
Hi All
ReplyDeleteHappy that the meetup/debauchery went well, with no arrests. Apparently.
Very good post from monkeyfish/ThatsTheWayIRoll. They wanted no part of it, and the truth, sad to say, will not set them free.
I was a twat at 21, by 22 knew everything, most of which I've forgotten now.(-:
Friday jam anyone? Here's a lady that went far too soon.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHWeK8Vheak&feature=related
Vizzo
ReplyDeleteYou are talking rubbish, of course we would not round on the youngest person if we were all in the same room.
Unless of course that youngest person spouted absolute elitist shit.
Using Nap as an example is just not going to fly,he was given a bit of leeway because of his age but if he had come in here spouting his gibberish he would have been dismissed even quicker if nobody knew his age.
I am a bit of an idiot and when I started commenting here I got it in the neck from Scherfig and others (it was probably deserved) but I can see that if you come in here with something to say you will be treated well.
On the other hand if you come in here to insult a well liked member (you and Atomboy) then you might get called a twat.
I to the Vizzo
ReplyDelete"It just stung that you had me pegged so quickly."
I didn't and I never meant to cause you offence, that I did is my fault and I apologise.
Hello, everyone and fellow-drinkers: seriously good evening, and lovely to meet you guys - dead impressed by Chekhov making it - (note to self - more food next time: Marmite sarnies not enough to base an evening's drinking on)
ReplyDeleteSaw Nap's comment re agricultural labour - didn't notice him extolling its virtues when he was jobhunting...
Hee hee La Rit
ReplyDeleteLast year I went to a group to talk about how drinking (mine and others) had affected my life and they offered ear acupuncture.
I gave it a go and what a waste of an hour it was, it might make you calmer if you don't get a lot of time on your own but god it was irritating.
I literally couldn't leave the needles alone, they put needles in my ears for gods sake, needles in my ears!
Not for me. ;)
I to the Vizzo--Hi. I think young Nap has invited some derision in what he posts. He has gotten doses of bile from some corners, but he has received some constructive suggestions as well. As you are hopefully realising, we are not all of the same opinion here, and that to me is damn good.
ReplyDeleteSomething a bit quicker. Maybe should have offered this last night for those in 'town.'
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQbmVYDwzA&feature=related
Again, imagine all of us in a room, and all of you rounding on the youngest one there and giving him all this bile, in person. Do your live through scenes like that in your day-to-day lives? No? Then why do it on-line?
ReplyDeleteWell, maybe this is where I earn my stripes as a raging bitch, but if anyone spouted the bollocks he does, I wouldn't have any problem telling him to his face everything that I've said to him online.
I to the Vizzo
ReplyDelete"Again, imagine all of us in a room, and all of you rounding on the youngest one there and giving him all this bile, in person."
I've had a think about that and to be honest, in most of the locals I've had around the country the poor sod wouldn't have lasted the length of his first pint.
Hey Shaz!
ReplyDeleteTwas a good night. Shame you were forced to drink Kent beer though! :o)
'scuse me for interrupting here, but ...
ReplyDelete***princesschipchops
This looks interesting:
Housing benefit cuts: study undermines government claims
And here's the research paper:
Low income working households in the private rented sector
Vizzo
ReplyDeleteI think you are coming in at the end of a conversation and missing all that went before. I'd give it a rest in all honesty. NapK can be very sweet and make some very good points, but he can also be incredibly naive and, sometimes, downright offensive with his premises (as can we all, I suppose).
I wish him well, though, because I know a few years will make him a different person.
Chekhov
ReplyDeleteYou think that's mad - you're lucky MrLaRit hid the cartridges for the turntables.... he knoweth me too well when I'm steaming ;) It would have been the Disco tunes.....Glad he looked after you though - Yorkshire Gold loose tea - unbeatable, although as Jen says..... the water is all wrong here - far too hard (even for us Southern Shandy drinkers)
BB
The 'Fuck off you fat cow' quote from the kid you were representing - what a little gobshite... but it did make me LOL!!! but yep, Lewisham, there's a different level of grinding poverty there - today it felt like I'd gone back in time to the 70's to where my Nanna used to live in Liverpool.
PS - you are a lovely person ;) I'll remember to bring plazzie bags with me next time - just in case!
I hope Ms PhilippaB managed to retrieve her partner from the Thrash gig in Old Street :) as Chekhov says - she is outrageously intelligent and very funny ;)
@Ally - you used to post some interesting stuff on the politics threads. I always had a lot of time for you. You also showed guts when you spoke up for those who'd been banned and, in doing so, jeopardised your ATL rights.
ReplyDeleteIt's all a long time ago though, isn't it?
These days you're just another Waddya fanboy. Who gives a shit if things got "unpleasant" on Waddya in the wake of the Mavis posts? Mavis was telling the truth. Waddya had become a travesty of what it should have been, jammed full of vacuous liberal idiots who sucked up to Jess and Bella and got ATL gigs to share the contents of their tiny minds.
Waddya doesn't need defending; it needs destroying.
Montana--Earn your stripes? Always pictured you with a general's stars. (-:
ReplyDeleteI'm going with Habib on his last. In the pubs and legions that I frequent, when one spouts bullshit he/she will be pulled up quickly, and rightfully so.
Symphonic blues.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8QRr92qDWc&feature=related
Shaz
ReplyDeleteAhh... you got home safely... see, you were wise - sticking to the Ale and not drinking your own bodyweight in red wine and convincing yourself you were errmmm... semi-sober ;)
MonkeyFish
That was a crime to remove that post..... but comfort yourself with the fact that the fabled Iron Lady is lying in a hospital somewhere wearing a pair of incontinence knickers. :)
Jen:
The ear stuff really worked for me - but it's not for everyone - have you tried religion? (to be said in the style of.."have you been to a Harvester before".....
Shame you were forced to drink Kent beer though! :o)
ReplyDeleteAh yes... such vicissitudes (is that a word?) Never mind. The London Pride lived up to expectations. And the company definitely made up for the Sheps!
On the minus side, the kitchen ceiling fell down this morning. Arse.
NapK is a young lad who's read a lot of books but has never lived or spoken to people. He's insufferably pompous, like a lot of us were when we were as young as him.
ReplyDeleteI'm happy to cut him some slack at the same time as I don't take him seriously.
'ello Hank ;)
ReplyDeleteWaddya had become a travesty of what it should have been, jammed full of vacuous liberal idiots who sucked up to Jess and Bella and got ATL gigs to share the contents of their tiny minds.
Waddya doesn't need defending; it needs destroying
Ain't it the truth.
I would like to add that after they put needles in my ears (in my ears, in my fucking ears) they left me alone for an hour or so, to relax.
ReplyDeleteHow the hell are you supposed to relax with needles in your ears.
But there was nothing in the room to read except the Dean Koonz novel I found down the back of the sofa.
What an excellent book it was, it was called the Taking, an hilarious take on American culture, not sure he meant it to be taken that way but it was how I took it.
The Rapture, coming to a town near you, soon.
@BB: I haven't come across an "emoticon" or otherwise compilation of punctuation marks to express what is in effect a "tongue in cheek" remark. I therefore propose that, along the lines of "LOL" and "ROTFL" we might add "TFIC"=!"tongue firmly in cheek" otherwise my warped sense of humour will be perpetually construed as the diametric opposite of it's original intent!
ReplyDeleteAlways pictured you with a general's stars
ReplyDeleteAwww! You say the sweetest things, Boudican!
Hi LaRit, hope you're well.
ReplyDeleteInteresting that WinstonRed's posts got so many reccs and yet got deleted on the great moderation thread.
Speaks volumes really about Cif. It's Alice in wonderland stuff. Free speech is what we say it is. And we're liberal enough to give free rein to fascists and "kill the poor" coalitionists, but we draw the line at those who expose our star writers as hypocrites, or throw rocks at the mimsy wankers who spend their working days gossipping with the daughter's editor and her best mate.
What do I want to talk about?
I'd like to commission one of the timewasting fucking airheads on waddya to write a piece on their part in Greece's downfall.
@LaRit:
ReplyDeleteThanks! I caused a bit of a ruckus in the staff lounge at school 2 years ago (prior to the 2008 election), when one of the teachers started in about Obama being a socialist who was out to destroy the country. I told her that was one of the most idiotic things I'd ever heard and that she knew absolutely nothing about socialism if she truly believed that.
The only time I really hesitate is when it might affect my son. Like, he's been in trouble twice this year about the Pledge of Allegiance. I'd like to tell his teacher that I find the PoA offensive and don't want my son saying it, but I don't want him to be singled out in any way, so I keep shtum.
NapK is a young lad who's read a lot of books but has never lived or spoken to people. He's insufferably pompous, like a lot of us were when we were as young as him.
ReplyDeleteI'm happy to cut him some slack at the same time as I don't take him seriously.
29 October, 2010 22:17
Well said Hank.
I don't like to speak for anyone else but I was a stupid twat when I was 24 years old. It could be argued that I'm still a stupid twat at 51 but at least I have the experience to stand my corner (right or wrong) and know how to argue my case and hopefully do it without looking like a total knobhead.
Fair play to you for giving Nap the benefit of the doubt.
However that means he has to "up his game" which is good.
It also means I have to up mine, which is bad!
Just kidding! I do try to keep up but to be honest I'm one lazy fucker!
I must admit, I do occasionally feel the odd tinge of regret when laying into young master Napoleon...then I see this kinda thing..
ReplyDelete"So we need a 'free Zimbabwe army'. From now on, all Zimbabweans who arrive here claiming refugee status should be sent to a training facility in the Highlands of Scotland and trained up in the ways of war, We will then arm them and parachute them back into Zimbabwe and they will march on Harare and overthrow the beast. Then there would be no refugee crisis."
...and I think "fuck me..if only Dostoevsky hadn't been such a lazy fucker"..clearly he's finished The Idiot and he's moved onto Frederick Forsythe...it's a fuckin Dogs of War/Wild Geese mash up with young Narodnik Bonaparte playing Richard Burton.
Expect a few posts on life in the bush, "Jambo" and how they "don't like it up 'em Mr Mainwaring"...sorry but the kid's a deluded fantasist...probably best just to play along.
I'm very well thanks Hank - hope you are too - am still a bit ruff around the edges from last nights meet up, so booze-free night for me.... back to Catford in the morning to work at 10 (polishes halo);)
ReplyDeletewe're liberal enough to give free rein to fascists and "kill the poor" coalitionists, but we draw the line at those who expose our star writers as hypocrites, or throw rocks at the mimsy wankers who spend their working days gossipping with the daughter's editor and her best mate
CiF has sunk to new lows - it is the sheer hypocrisy of it all, the coddling of brain-dead, clever-dick halfwits like Glover who believe their own publicity, the flattery of their Oxford dons and their mediaborewhore boyfriend Parris - himself a smug self-satisfied, clever-dick who specialises in a superiority complex.
What's made me spit with rage is that they are tacitly qualifying the the BTL facists and "kill the poor" coalitionists' by giving the lifeblood of publicity to the Tory Party's mouthpiece in the form of Tim Montgomerie.
(I missed the WinstonRed's comment - I was losing the will to live reading the moderation thread)
Are they real quotes Monkeyfist?
ReplyDeleteWe need a free zimbawbee army?
Nothing to say, it is just unbelievable, I feel sick.
What a tit.
monkeyfish
ReplyDeleteMight be easier to just post him C.O.D. to:
Simon Mann and Mark Thatcher
Africa
As for potato picking, it probably sounds nice in a Thomas Hardy novel and looks nice in a Van Gogh sketch, but it might actually be hard work for little money.
If you are going to wish that on someone, why not go for Chuck Palahniuk's Survivor?
Then you could be part of a death-cult which sends its members out as servants to the stupid rich and who have to send their wages back to the cult management team.
chekhov and monkeyfish...
ReplyDeleteDon't get me wrong. I think he's a bit of an arse, but he's young, isolated and outspoken. He needs guidance. He's not beyond redemption.
His biggest problem is that he's immature and thinks that he's the first guy ever to have thought the thoughts he's thought.
We've all been there.
NapK is definitely Pike as Prince Myshkin, MF.
Just as Bru is Hilda Baker as Holly Golightly.
Yes, Jenn. They're real comments.
ReplyDeleteAlly
ReplyDeleteWhat you are saying is that cif is the way it is because it has always been that way.
Can we change it?
I hope so because if not it will become a place we won't even want to visit.
Ally - go on then, who are the good people?
ReplyDeleteCif is full of shit these days, and the agenda is driven by your chums on waddya.
You've let us all down.
Sorry, all this stuff around NapK is total nonsense. He sounds like any first or second year student to me, and if I hear two of them holding forth on the bus I might roll my eyes or whatever, but I'm not going to stomp over there and call them cunts. The point is, neither would any of you, because in the real world you moderate yourselves. You only do this sort of thing here because all the consequences (to yourself) have been removed by the anonymity, distance and text-on-the-screen interface.
ReplyDeleteCif basically provides a space that is halfway between real life situations and internet space - the moderation means that it can't all descend into Lord of the Flies territory like this thing here with Napk.
"We need a free zimbawbee army?"
ReplyDelete...apparently...yeah
...see I could go on there and say "we need a media which is either representative of the entire population or at least one which is open about its influences and allegiances..." and justifiably get wiped out for being offside or mooching in a mooch free zone or whichever guideline I'd be breaching...but any 'civilised' decent poster who just happens to be channelling Mad Mike Hoare's earth-bound spirit can put up any old fuckin plans for any old coup d'etat they fancy...
talk about consistency..
Maybe we need a thread on moderation.
"I might roll my eyes or whatever, but I'm not going to stomp over there and call them cunts. The point is, neither would any of you, because in the real world you moderate yourselves. You only do this sort of thing here because all the consequences (to yourself) have been removed by the anonymity, distance and text-on-the-screen interface."
ReplyDeletesorry..no...as soon as one of them started having a go and clearly identified me as the target they'd get a right mouthful
@ItotheVizzo - yeh, cheers mate, we all know that.
ReplyDeleteYet another cunt who's just discovered the internet and thinks he's got an original thought in his head that's not yet occurred to the rest of us....
Run along now, kiddo. We'll get the hang of this internet thing all by ourselves.
Sorry, all this stuff around NapK is total nonsense. He sounds like any first or second year student to me, and if I hear two of them holding forth on the bus I might roll my eyes or whatever, but I'm not going to stomp over there and call them cunts. The point is, neither would any of you, because in the real world you moderate yourselves.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is that in the example you have given, the reason not to intrude is that the people are in their private space having a private conversation.
What they are saying is nothing to do with you, even if the physical surrounding permit you to hear it by accident.
On the internet - in discussion threads anyway - your comment becomes public and people are entitled to challenge it and if you do not like that, you have the choice not to post.
You also seem quite sure that people would not say in the real world what they say online.
I can assure you that if you work in some industries or even go into certain pubs, people will talk very "openly and directly".
The idea that the real world is more polite and constrained and we would not say there what we say here may apply in your case but will not necessarily be true of others.
With that, I am winding down for sleep.
Carry on guys, off to the legion, where my bullshit meter will be on and set to maximum. Some of those loggers can pile the shit pretty high. They don't know much about Zimbabwe either.
ReplyDeleteLater.
Oh, by the way, CiF and WADDYA also "belong" to The Guardian and it is up to GMG how it chooses to run and operate its site.
ReplyDeleteYou may think you have an insight or interpretation of how things should go there, but it has no more validity than whatever is concocted by anyone else.
You may think you are a gatekeeper maintaining the purity of the brand but you are probably as out of step with what the business wants as anyone else.
All you can actually say is "I think" and hope you might be right - unless you are privy to the thoughts of those who actually run the show.
Anyway..that's me..up at 5
ReplyDeleteand, to be fair, Napoleon knows what to do...he knew exactly what he was doing...he just didn't manage to do it very well.
take it easy Hank
OK - goodnight everyone.
ReplyDeleteNice to see you, Hank.
Just caught your latest post, Ally.
ReplyDeleteMan, have you missed the point.
Just came back to point out that one comment is missing and the one about CiF was aimed at the Vizzo character.
ReplyDeleteTired shitless.
Or witless.
Summink.
and if I hear two of them holding forth on the bus I might roll my eyes or whatever, but I'm not going to stomp over there and call them cunts.
ReplyDeleteNo, I wouldn't walk up to complete strangers and call them cunts any more than I would walk up to them and say, "Agree completely". But if someone I know spouts bollocks within my earshot, I have no problem calling them on it.
@Atomboy
ReplyDeleteI don't think I have any special insight into how Cif is, and I certainly don't see myself as any sort of gatekeeper or whatever. I was just describing how I find it as a user. And also where I think the benefits are of it being a moderated space.
Hi guys, just signing in. What's the rumpus ?
ReplyDeleteRescued your comment from the spam folder, Atomboy.
ReplyDelete@I to the Vizzo:
Hey. If the shoe fits...
Heh.
ReplyDeleteI'm still waiting for a response from Ally, BW.
ReplyDeleteDunno who this ItotheVizzo guy is and don't much care.
Viz? He's a bit of a cock Hank, by all accounts.
ReplyDeleteAlly is a nice boy tho. He waits all day for messages. Mmm messages....
Dunno who this ItotheVizzo guy is
ReplyDeleteGlad you said it first, because I have no idea who you are either. That's spared us some awkwardness!
"Viz? He's a bit of a cock Hank, by all accounts."
ReplyDeleteWho'd a thunkit, BW? Some guy trolling on here who turns out to be a bit of a cock....
Ally... ALLY !!!!! Please help me >>>>> PLEASE!!!!!
ReplyDeleteCock.
ReplyDeleteNone better....
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZaZqx9v3dU
You forgot "you-can't-delete-my-trite-and-recycled-liberal-leftie-social-worker-angst-I've-got-a-"C"-you-bastards-that-I've-shared-a-dinner-table-with"...
ReplyDeleteBoudican, loved your Stormy weather, second post didn't work (literally) blues symphony was good skinin' up stuff.
ReplyDeleteBW, King Tubby - made me smile.
Funny - Ally.
ReplyDeleteBennybadman was arguing so well on the moderation thread.
Jayreilly interracted with most of the salient points.
How do you feel about that ?
I guess you just cant wait to get your next fucking bunch of friends organised.
I guess we'll all be still here waiting to catch you when you fall.
-whoosh-
@Ally - we don't get a chance to debate on Cif for obvious reasons. I'll be around for another 30 mins or so if you want to debate.
ReplyDeleteIf you don't respond, I'll draw the obvious conclusion, houseboy.
Ha ha ha - I OWN you
ReplyDeleteBW
ReplyDeleteGreat Willie Nelson song, too, But pick the beat up a little bit, if not the emotion.
@Hank
ReplyDeleteAlly - go on then, who are the good people?
Cif is full of shit these days
Cheers for that, Hank mate. I still post there. As do others here.
@Chekhov
Glad to hear you got back OK. See you soon in France, I hope.
@La Rit
Shaz only got home safely because I was there to stop her assaulting a platoon of London Transport police with a traffic cone. At her destination, she staggered off down the tunnel brandishing a ticket machine ripped from the hands of the guard, now slumped senseless in the aisle, and singing, "Come an' 'ave a go if you think you're 'ard enough," as I waited for the milk train. I wouldn't cross her...
Evening all
ReplyDeleteMore of a BLUES MAN meself!
Hank, don't take it too hard mate, Ally probably just couldn't see past the huge, dense cloud of hubris and melodrama that emanated from that post you wrote. You're probably right, the world just isn't ready for the truth - most messiahs were marginalised in their own time, if that's any comfort.
ReplyDeleteHere and here is a couple of bedtime tunes for you all.
ReplyDeleteSweet habib !
ReplyDelete.... cor
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletePaul !!!
ReplyDeleteThat really is so most excellent...
Night-night, Hank.
ReplyDeleteOne summer's night
ReplyDelete"Night-night, Hank."
ReplyDeleteQuelle surprise. Liberal poster takes offence and then flounces off.
Flouncing ???
ReplyDeleteCheck this
Angel Baby}!!!
This comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteFor ... all the.... people....
ReplyDeleteI love liberals btw. JohnYardDog, LordSummerisle, Henry Porter, SquishyRAFBoy, RapidEddie et al.
ReplyDeleteThey were all pissing their pants, telling us how much they cared about how we were all losing our liberties.
Funny how quiet they've all gone about how we're all going to get an awful lot poorer while getting no more free.
hubris
ReplyDeletegood word
ReplyDeletelike... "don't care"....
ReplyDeleteThe end of our story... Cottage for sale...
ReplyDeleteFWIW Rapid and rafman are ok.... well ok....
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteOh blimey, just reading down the "moderation" thread on Cif the other day.
ReplyDeleteSome good posts from thauma, but the whole BB v Bitey/yanquapin thing...?
Jeez, could you be any more self-absorbed, BB?
Let it fucking go, for Christ's sake.
Bitey's banned. As has been Bitey 2, 3, 4 and 5, and yet you're still there, BB, getting all self-righteous about the fact that Bitey 1 gave you a hard time.
You've never been banned, BB, but you spend so much time getting so worked up about a guy who has got banned.
Do you ever sit back and think that you might be a bit precious?
Jeezus.
It strikes me as fucking typical of a middle class barrister living in Surrey that she should regard herself as a victim when she really isn't a victim.
Hi All -Just back in from legion and catching up.
ReplyDeleteHabib, sorry that link was shit. The song was 'The boys are back in town' by the BusBoys.
Some good music in amongst the back and forth and the friday night battleroyal.
It strikes me as fucking typical of a middle class barrister living in Surrey that she should regard herself as a victim when she really isn't a victim.
ReplyDelete@Hank
ReplyDeleteOh, I didn't take offence. Just thought there wasn't much point talking to you while you were ranting. I watched the last episode of Spooks instead. Gripping stuff.
00
ReplyDeletekent
ReplyDeleteHi Bitters--Looks like you and me left. That B.B.King from Paul was excellent. So good that I get to see him live in Vancouver on Nov.5. I'm pumped to see him. 85, schmateyfive, the man has his own lovely style and tone, and he really enjoys himself. Cool.
ReplyDeleteGood tunes after that as well. Still catching up.
I'm catching up too, Boudican, I saw BB in Manchester more than ten years ago, Unbelievably good.
ReplyDeleteBoudican
ReplyDeleteHere's a fucking funny story...
When I was just turned eighteen I INSISTED my GF at the time attended BB King in London, she said why, I said " Cos he's *old* - could die anytime soon". That was 1980.
Heh.
Here's this tho...
Off the left field
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5Ssk7-ModU&feature=email
ReplyDeleteHi Spike, and Habib.
ReplyDeleteGood story Bitters, the naivete of yoot. Good that you saw him though.
Some Maria.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hKPNk_AiBWQ&feature=related
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ReplyDeleteI remember thes cunts
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASXg-9O0s9w
Bitterweed, I liked those lyrics you removed, here have some more:
ReplyDeleteBecause the world is cruel and
Promises are broken
Don't try to tell me
Anything don't try to tell me
You'll be true to me you know the
Real truth is never spoken
And I know the world is cold but
If you hold on tight to what you
Find you might not mind too much though
Even this must pass away and
Memories may last for years but
Names are just for souvenirs
So it turns out BB and Spike are both middle class liberals.
ReplyDeleteNo great surprise there, surely.
Even so, let's remind ourselves that we all need to rely on ourselves, and not on middle class liars who pretend to care about us.
Jesus you are fuckin lucky.
ReplyDeleteThis music is perfect
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EvxS_bJ0yOU