The Order of the Templar was approved by the Council of Troyes in 1129. Afghan forces led by Ahmad Shah Durrani defeated the Marathas in the Third Battle of Panipat in 1761. Franklin Delano Roosevelt became the first President of the United States to fly while in office in 1943, when he flew to Morocco to meet with Churchill. Queen Margrethe II ascended the throne of Denmark in 1972. She is Denmark's first queen since 1412 and the first Danish monarch since 1513 to not be named either Frederick or Christian.
Born today: Berthe Morisot (1841-1895), Albert Schweitzer (1875-1965), Martin Niemöller (1892-1984), John Dos Passos (1896-1970), Cecil Beaton (1904-1980), Richard Briers (1934), Trevor Nunn (1940), Faye Dunaway (1941), Mark Addy (1964) and Dave Grohl (1969).
It is the feast day of Macrina the Elder in the Roman Catholic Church.
Thank you to scherfig and Dot for filling in in my unannounced absence. Regularly scheduled broadcasts have recommenced.
ReplyDeleteAnd, I know that today's image is not a Berthe Morisot and I do usually find an image by an artist on their birthday. I have my reasons for using this one today. I'll find you a nice Morisot tomorrow.
Hi Montana, glad you are back, hope you are better.
ReplyDeleteScherf
ReplyDeleteWhen you say she's an indepdent woman and stands and falls by her own actions I think you are wrong, were it not for her husband she would not have been writing in the Guardian yesterday. That should be beyond dispute. Were it not for her husband she would not be swanning around with Rothschild and other billionaires. So how is she such a pure indepedent woman who must be solely judged on her own merits?
The comments you say i have made that treat her like an appendage are to me just factual statements, so the inferences you draw are up to you - she has personally enjoyed a huge amount of wealth that Blairs antics brought them. Thats a fact, not some slur on her as an appendage.
Surely you must accept we would not even be having this discussion if it werent for Tony - she would never have reached the public eye. She has profited from what he's done.
As I said before, if she were just his little appendage, a doting wife, i would have an awful lot more sympathy for her but she isnt, she knows exactly whats gone on and she has a good enough career that she could get on just fine without him if she chose.
My central point, as it has been from the start, is that if Cherie wants to come and lecture on "freedom and democracy" then it is absolutely acceptable to take her to task and her husband IS relevant.
But anyway, dont leave the UT, you're one of the old guard and will be missed.
I'm not happy with all this leaving talk. You have been warned.
ReplyDeleteMorning Jay, discussed this briefly with Boudican during the night-time hours (bottom of yesterday's thread).
ReplyDeleteI am doing a rear guard action on English comprehension on Will Google stand up to France and Italy, too? it seems.
Morning Thauma
ReplyDeletehear hear.
By the way, i see that zounds has started following The Untrusted.
ReplyDeleteMorning Medve.
ReplyDeleteo/ *waves at zounds*
I dont like talk of people leaving either, its never good, scherfs been here from the start (nearly a year) and was on Cif a long time before that.
ReplyDeleteWell done on Waddya, Jay.
ReplyDeletethauma/jay
ReplyDeleteI dont like talk of people leaving
I don't like it either and would hate to see either Scherf or Hank go.
Scherf - you said last night you were bored amongst other things? Thats the thing with places like this - keeping the pace going and everyone happy, we all want some of the same but also different things from it so it ebbs and flows.
I have money on Hank being back - old place wouldn't be the same without you both, so please, no drastic decisions.
Anyone any advice on insomnia? Just been awake all night, eventually dropping off about 6am. Woke up about 9.30 and am now skiving at home too knackered to drag myself into work.
ReplyDelete'I'm not happy with all this leaving talk. You have been warned.'
ReplyDeleteScherfig, Hank, dunno about you two but I wouldn't dare say no to thauma!
I have learned a lot from the both of you and it would be a crying shame to leave in a spat over Cherry bloody Blair of all people for goodness sake. I think the Guardian is to blame for putting this wretched woman up to speak on such an important topic - of course it was going to lead to diversionary squabbles, but i think this is what some element at the Guardian likes, a shitload of many-hit heat and little light. Though looking at the numbers on the thread, my feeling is that there would have been more last year. Am sure I'm not alone in suspecting GMG wind-ups.
As for what UT is for, well I like a blether about the weather and what not and I also like serious stuff. A lot of the aggro is common enough in blogging - we can't see each other's faces so can't interpret whether banter is just banter or is meant to hurt.
The only post on here I've seen that I thought was really meant to hurt was so horrible that my first reaction was that someone had managed to borrow the person's name somehow, but it was real enough alas. But even there I think the person herself had begun unwittingly escalating her rhetoric. We'd all be different with each other greeting into our glasses at 10 pm!
Just in case I am being too ameliorative (if that's a word), I have to say that the one thing that annoys me about UT is the habit some of us have of congratulating each other on pointed barbs left on Cif. There is a rather disconcerting playground element to all this - 'I told her', 'I stood up to that big bully MAM' etc.
As for me, I talk shite so often I'm no longer sure when I'm being sensible or funny or just on autopilot. Come on guys, how often have you also left a comment and thought 'what the hell did I mean by that?' or 'Wish I hadn't said that.'
Going back to the big spectre at the UT Feast, and to repeat myself yet again, I'm increasingly leery about the blogs the Guardian are putting up. I am convinced that something unhealthily provocative is going on there, and some of that sickness has spread here.
Of to make coffee.
Edwin, just to clarify - for me this is not about a spat over Cherie Blair. That is irrelevant - it's a combination of many things really, and I've just lost interest.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteMorning all,
ReplyDeleteJay- top debating on WADDYA. I think PeterBracken is an interesting poster but I find his use of ad-homs on the arrogant side.
Hank & Scherf. I can only second what Edwin has said above about CiF and the effects here. Whether it's New Year blues or something else, everyone seems to be a bit tetchy and short fused at the moment.
For what it's worth, I would really like you both to stay.
Scherf, you're always provocative and always question consensus opinion on here when you think necessary. Fantastic qualities and adds much to the UT. Stay!
Hank- what can I say? Fiery left winger, passionate (and REAL) football fan, witty and provocative. This year Forest are going up and the Tories are coming to power.
You have to stay!
Scherf/Hank
ReplyDeleteI second Edwin and His Grace.
Yr Grace - think you're right about new year blues/ennui, coupled with the depredations of the weather. Its all getting to me a bit too.
thx, duke, but when the reaction to challenging concensus opinion is a dismissive 'Sometimes you would argue black is white and red is no colour at all just because you feel like arguing', then I see no point in it all.
ReplyDeleteDuke
ReplyDeleteYeah PB is usually a very interesting debater (good new addition to cif) so i hope he's around as would be interested to hear his thoughts.
But the whole debate has got very heated indeed so i dont think tempers flaring is anything to be surprised at, "degrading" and jibes about age are mildly irksome but nothing more, no harm done, and i dont think anything has been meant maliciously its just a very emotive issue. And i'm not averse to snipes myself so shouldnt grumble. Been interesting chat tho.
Scherfig I can't quarrel with the loss of interest thing; with me the decision to retire oldbagpuss was when I realised that though I didn't really mind boring other people, I was now boring myself, as I knew what i was going to say about anything before I typed it ('Conscious Berchie Syndrome').
ReplyDeleteWaltz made much the same points recently. I think also with personas they somehow soak up your personality, so the solution can be to get a new persona. In any case, the only reason for carrying on is if you are enjoying it.
btw you're not related to the director Scherfig are you? I was in a scene in the follow up to Red Road but it was cut as most of my scenes are!
Sheff,
ReplyDeleteI know what you mean.
To use a tortured analogy since New Year I feel like one of those WWI biplanes stuttering to get the propeller started: RRIIINGGINGNININPHHHHHHHSPLUTTER.....RRIIINGGINGNININPHHHHHHHSPLUTTER.....RRIIINGGINGNININPHHHHHHHSPLUTTER.....
The propeller hasn't started yet, hopefully it will soon....
scherf, I do hope you'll stay otherwise there will be a scherf sized hole here. And that's no good to anyone.
@ the Duke, Mr Bracken posts some good stuff (though not his legalistic defence of Blair), but yes, there is an unwelcome hint of arrogance and/or condescension there.
ReplyDeleteBy the way, welcome to zounds and to rRupert from me: like both your CiF contributions
Have just noticed the piece by the Prince of Darkness!
ReplyDeleteHaven't posted here for a while, but I thought I'd drop by and make a point. And yes, it's an anti-feminist one. Stands on soapbox...
ReplyDeleteJust discovered this thread on the death of Mary Daly on CiF last week. Although Robbo100 provided early on an accurate quote from her in which she claimed the earth needed "decontaminated" by a process that would involve "a drastic reduction of the population of males", this was handwaved away by feminists queuing up to say that, even if some of the things she said were a bit extreme, she was still someone worth defending. Even AllyF, who led the criticism of her, would not address the fact that she advocated gendercide.
This illustrates why I cannot support feminism in any way, shape or form. As I have previously said, there are sane and sensible people who call themselves feminists and genuinely advocate for equality between the sexes, a goal I wholeheartedly support. But when the movement as a whole harbours, shelters, indulges and defends people whose ideologies can only be described as evil, it is corrupt and any validity it may once have had is gone.
That's all.
"Worldwide e-mail address depletion" - that did make me laugh!
ReplyDeletePaddy, every movement has its nutcases, and in most of them, for the sake of solidarity, no-one will publicly condemn them.
ReplyDeleteAs a feminist, let me here state that I would be very sad if there were a drastic reduction in the population of males.
An interesting side discussion: take China, where there is a severe shortage of women for reasons we all know. Do you reckon that this will elevate the status of women? I think it's very possible.
Sheff - re: insomnia, it's different for everyone, but my 'sleep management' (which isn't going brilliantly at the minute, given the number of birthday drinks in January) involves the following guidelines:
ReplyDelete1) I try to stick to a regular bedtime / uptime - it's a bit Gina Ford, I know, but if I have a lie-in, this means I can't get to bed at a reasonable hour, so lie-ins get longer and I end up basically nocturnal. Which is not good. So I try to always set my alarm, even at weekends. I work my own hours, so don't have to be up at any particular time, but I try to stick to a 9am alarm call to keep the routine.
2) If you've been lying awake for an hour, don't continue to lie there. Get up, have a hot drink, listen to the radio, about 45 minutes, and then try again. This is supposed to prevent your bed from being a 'place of frustration' (no double entendre intended).
3) Try finding a cut-off hour for caffeine. Anyting after mid-day usually messes up my ability to get to sleep before about 2am. (I have written today off as I have only just got up, so tomorrow morning will no doubt be painful, but have to get back tot he routine).
4) Don't do anything too intellectually challenging immediately before bed - no reading books or getting into complex arguments. Mild surfing, the radio, youtube posting - something that lets your mind 'wind down' so you aren't lying there with cogs whirring.
Good luck with it - has this been a problem before? Stress obviously plays a big part, and it can then become a bit of a cycle, so the (probably immensely obvious and annoying) main advice is to try to roll with it and see if it goes away of its own accord.
I know very little about the effectiveness of drugs, as when I was put on temazepam it made bugger-all difference, which rather frightened my doctor. I think the effectiveness of certain solutions depends in part on their 'fit' with the personality of the user - I don't like the idea of regular medication so my body seems able to ignore it. But if you are, for example, happy to take natural remedies for other things, this could imply that a herbal remedy, or a lavender-scented bath, or things like that, could help because they are a good fit.
"every movement has its nutcases, and in most of them, for the sake of solidarity, no-one will publicly condemn them."
ReplyDeleteThats true, certainly, it isnt limited to feminism by any means. But what i do struggle with is when the most unpleasant "nutcases" find themselves asked to lead "research" which forms government policy. Something seems badly wrong there - the nutcases are not at the fringe, they are not marginalised, they are central figures.
and echoing thauma on paddy's points - feminism 'in any shape or form' is such a wide spectrum that I do wonder whether the terminology is sufficient. As you say, there is a 'reasonablist wing', seeking eaulity / parity rather than 'supremacy', which is what some of the rad-fem angles seem, in truth, to be after.
ReplyDeleteI'll call 'lack of perspective feminism' out when I see it, and am usually driven to growling by the equation of the rad-fem angle with 'all feminism' - but accept that sometimes the more radical proponents don't get the questioning they deserve. For example, I disgree with pretty much everything Dworkin ever said but I still think it was important that she said it. Maybe the same applies, for the posters you criticise, re: Mary Daly.
While the time for that kind of radicalism has passed (if it was ever appropriate - I don't know nuffin' about Daly but she certainly sounds OTT) maybe it's valuable to remember the different context that 1st-wavers / whatever were in. The difficulty is that some fems now seem to be fighting 1970s battles, having apparently missed the great strides that have been made and that the parity approach that seems more appropriate now is what would be more constructive...
If I can be a bit invasive on your ideas, I think you probably are what I'd call a feminist, as you support equality. But then according to some rad fems, I'd probably not count as a 'proper feminist', as I don't actually want to take a knife to you. Sad situation really.
"If you've been lying awake for an hour, don't continue to lie there. Get up, have a hot drink, listen to the radio, about 45 minutes, and then try again. This is supposed to prevent your bed from being a 'place of frustration'"
ReplyDeleteThat actually sounds like a good suggestion. On the occasional bouts of insomnia i've had (very rarely) bed itself becomes a slightly menacing place to be, its a vicious circle.
Jay - over the years I've tried a lot of things and that's the one that made the most difference. Plus, if you only get up for 30-45 mins, bed should still be quite toasty when you return to it.
ReplyDeleteOr if it's summer and it's v hot, when you get up, draw back the bedclothes, so it's nice and cool when you return.
plus, i have a UK duvet in french duvet cover (far bigger) so I have the duvet at one side with 'cover only' on the other, so can switch from warm to cool or vice versa without having to throw the thing on the floor / scrabble around for it. that's quite a help when it's hot when you go to bed...
I'd heard the getting up again thing too, makes sense, as for the no caffeine no book thing: you what?!? Without my evening cuppa (often at least half drunk actually in bed) and book (you have to have a distraction while you warm the bed up/ get comfy otherwise you can't sleep) I'd be an insomniac!
ReplyDeleteDot - am presuming caffeine affects people differently! Really, anything after mid-day and I am lying in bed, buzzing... But then I don't drink tea, so my caffeine quotient comes from strong coffee, or having a coke to ward off a hangover.
ReplyDeleteEven my birthday cake (coffee with coffee buttercream) gave me a buzz!
It's true that every movement has its nutcases, but in very few movements do those nutcases advocate mass murder and are rewarded with prominent jobs at important universities, influence over government policy and having their ideas published by reputable publishers, and have defenders in the apparently "reasonablist" wing.
ReplyDeleteRichard Dawkins criticises moderate religious people for inadvertently providing a cloak of respectability for religious extremists. But I can't imagine the Archbishop of Canterbury, if asked about, say, Fred Phelps, saying "I may not agree with everything he says, but it's important that he says them". Phelps' church is rightly marginalised within Christianity. As Jay says, the likes of Mary Daly are central figures in feminism.
As a side issue, the term "radical feminist" or "radfem" has become established to designate the "bad" feminists. I'm not sure about that. Radicalism, the demand for change, can be a good thing. The problem with the likes of Daly is not that they're radical, it's that they're wrong.
Philippa,
ReplyDeleteYou'd be presuming correctly, as I probably average 4 or 5 cups of tea/coffee* a day! I don't normally drink coffee after about 4pm, but that's down to what I feel like, rather than any bad experiences. I occasionally have a cup after a really good evening meal in a restaurant.
Don't think I'm addicted to caffeine though as I can happily live without it for days if I'm out of my normal routine, and drink less at weekends.
(I'll come "out" now and say I drink coffee, although if forced to choose once and for all I'd stick with tea, which in my book makes me a tea drinker!)
Oh and Paddy, good point about "radical" I'd never thought of that before!
ReplyDeletePaddy - good points on both acceptance and radicalism. In a sense I think 'radfem' has become a term in itself, and that the elements of it aren't necessarily 'heard'...
ReplyDeleteI've argued that in this 'permissive' age, being 'conservative' (not wanting to do X, Y or Z) might be the new 'radical'. But then I'm getting old.
However, Phelps may be marginalised, but that, sadly, could be because 'his followers' are largely his family. His 'movement' isn't big enough to need placating - watch the ABC asked about other homophobes within the Church (his reaction to the recent election of a gay suffragan bishop in the US versus the toe-curlingly embarassing semi-accommodation of the proposed Ugandan law) and he'll stress the need for unity alright.
Dawkins may criticise him for 'covering' for the fundy nutcases, but many Christians would criticise him for not telling them where to get off. This, perhaps, is more akin to the problems with feminism - not that I'm suggesting we need a world leader, or anything...
Phillipa
ReplyDeleteThanks for your insomnia tips. I've come back from the docs with a prescription for Zopiclone - haven't the faintest idea what it is apart from a sleeping pill - best look it up I suppose.
Insomnia is something that's only hit me recently and it's driving me bonkers!
Paddy
I've only read Daly's Pure Lust and glanced at a couple of other things of hers so I'm not an expert. I don't think she's at all representative of most women who would identify themselves as feminists - most of whom have men in their lives whom they love and aren't the remotest bit separatist.
Feminism isn't a single ideology anyway there are lots of different perspectives. For me its just ways to look at the world that throw up some interesting insights but they are not the only perspectives or ends in themselves. I'm always a bit suspicious of any idea that purports to have all the answers.
Sleeping - I almost never have trouble falling asleep, but I'll wake up in the middle of the night and can't get back to sleep.
ReplyDeleteAny handy tips for this?
Scherf
ReplyDeleteIf you are leaving because of what I said last night, then you are a being daft.
I don't like arguing on the internet in a setting like this. I especially don't like arguing with people I like.
I don't like it when people I like call me hypocrites either and I will duck out when it gets unmanageable for me, which is what I did last night.
We don't agree about Cherie Blair. Tough. I am not going to spend the rest of my life arguing about it until you are satisfied that my replies meet your standards. That is the way it is with me.
As far as I can tell there is nothing in the Ts and Cs of this place that says I have to stick around if I am feeling uncomfortable. Others may never have walked away from an argument but I frequently do if things get too confrontational. I have learned from bitter experience that getting into internet fights with people you respect just isn't worth it. You can call me what you want but that aspect of me is not going to change.
But I don't want you to leave here because of that. I don't want you to leave at all.
Sheff - well, it's not a 'benny', but there's nothing on Wiki (sorry) about length of effect, and that's what caused some confusion when I went on temazepam (which is a benny). If you're supposed to take it only 'when needed' then you need to know that if you try to get to sleep at your norrmal hour and can't, taking it only when you know that won't knock you out for the following morning too.
ReplyDeletee.g. t'pam is supposed to have an 8-hour effect, so as I normally tried to get to bed at 11 and wake at 7, I had to take it on going to bed, effectively guessing whether or not I'd be able to sleep. Mind you, I, due to the doctor being an idiot, was taking it nightly, which caused doctor number 2 to choke on his coffee and suggest 'weaning me off it'. Didn't take much weaning as it had had no obvious effect, and had no withdrawal. Like I said earlier, my body can be rather stubborn at times.
thauma - the 'getting up and listening to the radio' thing might work for you - that's sometimes my problem, particularly if I've been drinking. It's like my body wants to celebrate sobering up by poking me...
Just heard on the news - a group of police officers have been reprimanded for tobogganing on riot shields! I find that rather reassuring myself - not the reprimand, the tobogganing.
ReplyDeletePhillipa
ReplyDeleteI looked it up on the net - the contra indications are horrible - don't fancy it at all.
Phil - might get up and post YouTube links on here! Not a big radio fan. ;-)
ReplyDeleteSheff - love the tobogganing cops! Much better use of riot shields.
Sheff - you might not believe this, but try a lettuce sandwich about an hour before you go to bed. Just bread and butter and a whole heap of lettuce, nothing else. It seems to have some soporific effect although why I don't know - but it works for me.
ReplyDeleteGive those rozzers an asbo I say! :o)
thauma
ReplyDeleteFound the vid. Tobogganing plods
BB
ReplyDeleteIf its a choice between Zopiclone and lettuce - lettuce it will be. I'll give it a whirl and let you know if it works.
Sheff - side-effects always look horrible, but that's because they have to put up everything evver reported. Would be worth raising questions with the doc about incidence rather than just sticking it in a cupboard, maybe.
ReplyDeleteBB - lettuce - remember the Flopsy Bunnies!
That vid is really funny - particularly the way the bloke seems to be adjusting his earpiece before he goes down the hill... so he still had his radio on! :o)
ReplyDeletePaddy
ReplyDeleteOn the feminism issue, I think that what everyone forgets about these theorists from the second wave (Daly, Dworkin, Rich etc) is that they were the first female academics breaking through and were looking to a) push the theoretical boundaries / test theories and b) build their careers.
Radical feminism was first concerned with challenging the radical left politics in the States in the 60s, so was initially something of a socialist project, for want of a better expression. However, 'the personal is political' perspective brought into focus sexuality, inter-personal relationships (eg: family, marriage, domestic & sexual violence against women), and an overarching view of male power as problematic, not other structural factors such as capitalism. If you view patriarchal power as socially constructed, then personal relations are an important site of contestation.
Sadly, rad fem became somehow synonymous with lesbian separatism. I think annetan has highlighted this point previously here, when she described feeling estranged from the women's movement as this idea of separatism permeated through and the idea of a fairer society for men and women somehow got lost. Maybe it's time to reclaim the 'rad fem' label back, because it also describes new feminisms such as ecofeminism which have nowt to do with separatism & all to do with humanity in its entirety.
scherfig
I still agree with you about CB, she has been treated differently from other PM / President spouses and without justification, imho. Hilary Clinton isn't a comparator, because she became politically successful in her own right.
BB/Phillipa
ReplyDeleteLove Film have sent me Les rivières pourpres II - Les anges de l'apocalypse to watch tonight. Sounds dramatic - although don't know whether it'll help or hinder me sleeping. Have you seen it?
Have seen the first one, if I'm thinking of the right film - Vincent Cassel / Jean Reno directed by Kassowitz - which was brilliant - sequel seems to have lost Cassel and Kassowitz but gained Christopher Lee, so I'm guessing it'll be a good one!
ReplyDelete(First one was rather gory, as I recall - ensure there is a blanket to hand for face coverage if you are squeamish)
Haven't seen either of them, so I have no idea, but I just looked it up on IMDB and it sounds good! You can always hide behind the sofa at the scary bits!:o)
ReplyDeleteAnd here's a tune with which to remember Teddy Prendergast.
ReplyDeleteSheff - great vid, and the comments underneath are great!
ReplyDeleteNow I find I always sleep well after a wee dram of whiskey, but I can't be doing that *every* night.
Lovely choon, MsChin.
ReplyDeleteI was just looking in youtube to see if I could find any more of his, and if you stick Teddy Prendergast into the search box, you get a whole list of em marked Teddy Pendergrass! :o)
BB
ReplyDeleteFond of this one, too.
I see Bru's having a back-handed go at Montana and the rest of us self-loathing collaborators on Waddya.
ReplyDeleteWhy can't she just let it go? :(
ReplyDeleteIt's such a shame.
Aww, I've had my very own comment from GIYUS on the home-schooling thread. I feel honoured.
ReplyDeleteHmm... the only waddya I can see at the moment is full spam.
ReplyDeleteSorry, they've started a new one. It was toward the end of the old one.
ReplyDeleteThe home-schooling thread is quite interesting. There are a lot of posters I've never seen before advocating it, but most of them make a fair amount of sense.
ReplyDeleteI'm still not convinced, though. On the purely anecdotal basis that all the home-schoolers I've ever met (all 3 of them!) were raving lunatics.
Also, while I don't want to pollute the thread with this sort of thought, it occurs to me that if I'd sent my child for FGM, for example, I might decide a bit of home-schooling was in order.
Maybe it is because they were raving lunatics that their parents ended up home-schooling them, thaum! :o)
ReplyDeleteSeriously, though, these days school is so much about round peg into round hole that if you don't fit they either give up on you, pick on you or otherwise shove you to one side.
BB - no, it was the parents who were lunatics! Never met the kids. Presumably they've turned out that way too.
ReplyDeleteAnd I agree that the state educational system is crap.
Think you'd like the thread - have a look!
Philippa - from last night, sorry only just caught up - re disordered 'The issue of her current work is not something I know enough about (although I'd observe that if one was, for example, the accountant for a homelessness charity one wouldn't necessarily have the first clue about the relevant law)'
ReplyDeleteWould agree entirely, but she was using her Shelter employment as justification for asserting that an LA has a duty to rehouse any tenant whose landlord is repossessed. Anyhoo...
BB - our aim in yr 6 is to turn out a class of brilliant eccentrics - whatever their academic capabilities. It's a struggle against the 'conform or fail' message of the National Curriculum & SATs, but it's great fun trying, and the kids tend to enjoy the year.
I shall toddle on over there. Ta :o)
ReplyDeleteWill people please stop fucking off ? Jesus.
ReplyDeleteScherfig. I thought this place was where people come to continue threads that have been closed/ransacked by the feeble minded attack dwarves of the righteous that we call moderators. Anything else is a bonus.
The tone has changed over the last year. Itv was originally a place to vent steam and have a laugh at the expense of those ludicrously pompous lifestyle shapers on CiF. Gradually our own debates grew, then some real contention, and by summer some humungous great fallouts had happened. Spectacular some of em..
A lot of what I'd call genuine socialists have rocked up here, and since February last year, it as taken on a consistent underlying refrain: solidarity. But not necessarily obsessed with consensus. If that's boring, well fuck it, I like boring sometimes, just like I'll sit and enjoy a single malt in front of the fire and read the le Carre novel.
But you're right; that's also got its risks - of becoming face book for lefties. But there's the rub. What about the tunes. The rows ? The connections ? The sympathy and shared indignation ? . The shared outrage at the political elite, and their fuckfaced foot soldiers: the broadsheets kommentariat. The, yes, some times banal chit chat - day to day observations of life’s' minutia. It's all up for grabs.
Personally I don't have time during the day, nor the evening, to be here consistently, let alone CiF, which frankly is a full time job if you're really going to kick some arse.
So why not, instead of looking for it all here, just take your foot off the gas, and come back every now and then and just throw in a hand grenade or two.
You too Hank.
OK.
Evening all
ReplyDeleteBB: you wrote:
Sheff - you might not believe this, but try a lettuce sandwich about an hour before you go to bed. Just bread and butter and a whonownle heap of lettuce, nothing else. It seems to have some soporific effect although why I don't know - but it works for me.
Did you consider the possibility that a person, or persons, unknown have treated your lettuce thus, hence spiking you with thc?
On a more serious note i have a rather distasteful question: would a photograph of a container, with a sign on it saying that a child is being abused inside, count as child pornography? or indeed, recursing upwards, this entire paragraph?
Weird questions, Medve, and the answer is I don't think so, no. If, on the other hand, there was a sign explaining what the abuse consisted of, that could arguably be pr0n.
ReplyDeleteNot an area I specialise in, nor would I want to because it makes me want to harm people. :o)
Sleep:
ReplyDeleteI have not suffered any insomnia at all in my life since i realised that i cannot sleep only if i don't actually want to sleep.
So yes, getting up and doing anything that takes the fancy at that sleepless moment and provides enjoyment and or satisfaction is guaranteed to bring sleepiness within an hour or so. The subsequent rest is generally first rate and makes up for the lost time. That is my lucky experience anyway.
Medve
ReplyDeleteFunnily enough I was just reading the Daily Kos blog, which is in the Best of the Web section.
Right, just popping out to the co-op to get a lettuce ..
BB: I realise it's a sicko question + i'm a father of two myself, but i do have a genuine concern about this in relation to the internet censorship topic.
ReplyDeletesheff
ReplyDeleteWild lettuce sounds good
BW
ReplyDelete*applause*
I missed BW's post earlier.
ReplyDeleteDouble applause here too.
Don't disappear guys, please. You are part of this place.
Sorry to lower the tone, but that ChinaBounder on the Google threads is very into ancient Chinese art, which vaguely reminds me of someone.
ReplyDeleteBW
I got sidetracked by the site Medve linked to & by the soporific qualities of lettuce from your post, but I'm with thauma.
Well that reads really well, doesn't it? I've just implied BWs post gives off soporific lettuce vapours .. if only!
ReplyDeleteI apologize for causing too much distraction.
ReplyDeleteHahahaha. Soporific lettuce for the win!
ReplyDeleteWhich thread re ChinaBounder MsC?
Cracking read that Feminism Fail
ReplyDeleteby Angry Mouse on the Daily Kos.
Couldn't find Chinabounder either, but BB is on You said it.
ReplyDeleteI am! Only about boring stuff though. Nothing exciting. Just divorce law which I bloody LOATHE with a vengeance but which I still have to do a fair bit of. Most of the time I just want to bang their bloody heads together, but I can't really...
ReplyDeleteYeah, i'd last seen my parents together when i was almost four and they were trying to kick each other down a flight of stairs. LOATHsome indeed. then, some years later, presumably during the legal divorce proceedings or something, when i was six, my father turned up at my school in a big black car, with three other men to explain to me that he couldn't be my father any more.
ReplyDeleteEver since, i have thought that this was the most stupid thing he ever did say. That he couldn't be around and what have you, i could understand, but the basic genetic inheritance situation had already been fixed since i was conceived.
Medve - ouch.
ReplyDeleteHas it occurred to you that it might have been his way of explaining to a 6 yr old that he had lost his contact rights? In those days it was pretty much par for the course that Dads would be excluded from the family at the drop of a hat...
Hi y'all
ReplyDeleteJust very quickly like, good to see you online again Montana.
Old Bagpuss....I always thought you were a chick too...anyways good to see you here.
As far as the CB piece, I just saw it on Timesonline as well and accidently recommended it opps! I guess it was a syndicated piece that most papers felt obliged to carry. So I think it is a wind up BY Cherie Blair, just the audacity of it.
See you all soon. Somewhere near Warwick I'm hoping.
ReplyDeleteBB
ReplyDeleteAll of them! Try here. 13 Jan @2.41 pm on the cyber attack thread contains the ref to Chinese art.
I could be very wrong here though.
BW
ReplyDeleteSee ya there, mate!
found it the chinabounder.
ReplyDeleteHmmm... the syntax isn't there yet. But I seem to recall it took a few posts on the last nick - which is still live btw - before the personage was revealed
ReplyDeleteWell, I've just watched 'King Arthur'. Is there a word for when cinematic historical revisionism disappears off so far over the horizon that 'jumped the shark' just doesnn't cut it?
ReplyDeleteCool bananas mschin - any idea what time ? I'll have to bugger off about seven-eight.
ReplyDeleteBW
Pip
ReplyDeleteDoes "load of bollocks" fit the bill? :o)
My favourite version of the Arthurian legend on screen is still John Boorman's Excalibur with the Carmina Burana going on in the background.
Book-wise it has to be the Marion Zimmer Bradley series. They are bloody brilliant.
The Mists of Avalon
Very much seen from the women's perspective - Morgane la Fee, Guinevere. Well worth a read.
BW - do you know that the Midlands meetup has been moved to the 23rd due to the snow? No longer this Saturday as previously advertised.
ReplyDeleteAnd I won't be able to do the 23rd, which is a real bummer. I hardly get invited out to anything much, but we have been invited to a bloody civic ball that night! Yes really. Not my kind of shit at all, but going for the old man's sake as it is his invite, not mine.
Scherf -- how many times do we have to have this discussion? Everyone is free to say whatever he or she wants. If you've got something weightier that you'd like an extended discussion on -- just say it or slap it on the UT2 and change the link up at the top so that people know it's there. But the others are right that not every comment/thread has to be a debate on the great ideas.
ReplyDeleteYou're part of the furniture, love. You're not going anywhere. That's an order.
BW
ReplyDelete4-ish I think - got moved down from the original 1pm.
Hi Mchica,
ReplyDeleteAs far as the CB piece, I just saw it on Timesonline as well and accidently recommended it opps! I guess it was a syndicated piece that most papers felt obliged to carry. So I think it is a wind up BY Cherie Blair, just the audacity of it.
That explains a lot and also means that it is hereby prohibited for anyone to "leave" because of HER wind up. make up any reason, but for the love of god, not because of this.
I really really don't want Hank or Scherf to leave (or Monkeyfish if that's on the cards).
ReplyDeleteYou guys are the reason I pitched up here in the first place. You make me think. You make me laugh, You make me gnash my teeth at times too. But most of all you make me realise that there are still good people about.
If you leave I will stalk you.
Hi Mchica, by the way. I was very cheesed off you got banned from CiF. x
ReplyDeleteI've tried several times to post on the Ousley thread & am so frustrated by the s l o w n e s s that I give up. Bah humbug.
ReplyDeleteAnd the big thaw means I've no longer got a legitimate excuse to go into work late, so good night all.
BB/Mchica
ReplyDeleteBanned? When? Why? etc
BB: got a fair bit of data-psychological knowledge and experience, though i've never been a stalker, but in this cause i offer you the dubious benefit of my assistance.
ReplyDeleteMedve
ReplyDeleteAll I know about stalking I have learned from my own CiF stalker :o)
PhilippaB - good point about beardie and the Ugandans. Maybe feminism isn't that much worse than the CoE after all. I'd still maintain, though, that bad feminists are central to feminism as a political movement in terms of power and influence, and good ones are peripheral.
ReplyDeleteJesus suffering fuck. Forty-eight hours after an earthquake flattens Haiti, basic life and death is still up in the air, the aid agencies are talking about setting up "safe areas" for "women and their children", because women need hygiene and birth control, because they are "at increased risk of gender-based violence, especially domestic violence and rape but also forced marriage at earlier ages", and, basically, because the're just better people - 'Women "are central actors in family and community life," ... and are more likely to know "who in the neighborhood most needs help -- where the single mothers, women with disabilities, widows and the poorest of the poor live."' Oh, and after a disaster like this 'there will also be scores of "newly disabled, widowed or homeless women"'.
Progress, eh? On the Titanic, the cry was "woman and children first". Today, a natural disaster kills 45,000 people and it's "women and children only". After all, men are only rapists, wife-beaters and marriage-forcers, aren't they? A man dies, the only harm is there's a woman newly widowed.
Feminism hasn't "gone too far", it's gone rotten, and insinuated itself even into humanitarian aid. All due respect to those here who consider themselves feminists, but I think you're sadly mistaken if you think it's still, as a movement, capable of being a force for good.
On other points, that tobogganing coppers video is marvellous. I'd be proud to be disciplined for playing in the snow while on duty.
ReplyDeleteAnd King Arthur? I really can't make any sense of that film. I mean, yes, there's some (weak) evidence for Arthur as a leader of the Britons against the Saxons in the aftermath of the Romans leaving in the 5th/6th century, and yes, there's a theory that the "original" Arthur may have been a Roman officer called Lucius Artorius Castus who may have commanded Sarmatian cavalry in Britain - but Lucius Artorius Castus lived in the 2nd century! It makes no sense.
Evenin' good people.
ReplyDeleteHere's some help for Sheffpixie, in case the lettuce didn't work.
zzzz
or zzzzzzzz
and if that didn't work, zzzzzzzzzzzzzz stay up and play some records, instead.
OK me loves. Time I wasn't here. Got to get up at a really stupid hour in the morning. Meh.
ReplyDeleteHugz xx
Sod it! Sorry habib - why do you show up every time I need to go to bed?!
ReplyDeleteBig hug to you - hope your shift is bearable xx
Second link for zzzzzzz might work.
ReplyDelete"Sorry habib - why do you show up every time I need to go to bed?!"
ReplyDeleteWell, I'm either dull or sexy, I guess.
BB - after the MPW divorce thread yesterday, have you seen the Withers email that's kicking up such fuss in the House?
ReplyDeleteno idea of the rights or wrongs of the case, but it did interest me that while there were references to 'we' and 'our client' in several paras, there was a lot of 'my client' kicking around as well. I'd put money on that not having been read over...and now it's all over the news. Not having a good week, are they?
scroll down for the section 'Withers LLP'
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200910/cmhansrd/cm100113/debtext/100113-0004.htm#10011359001287
Paddy
ReplyDelete"Maybe feminism isn't that much worse than the CoE after all"
Right, that's it, I'd tearing up my fembership card and sending back the collecting tin...
(I didn't even to look it up in Wiki to know that the stuff about Pelagius was bollocks)
evening heyhabib
ReplyDeleteI ought to trundle off to the land of nod soon as well, as i am on breakfast duty in four and a half hours, but i'll put it off a bit as you are here.
And if anybody fancies any late-night bloodsports, Charlie Falconer's being torn a new one...
ReplyDeleteSpotlight on me? I dreamt of this moment, I'd like to thank...
ReplyDeleteHere's some comedy- possibly offensive.
turning off my spotlight to turn in. goodnight all
ReplyDeleteMusic without a spotlight...
ReplyDeleteHere's one each for andysays and a brief musical interlude for gandolfo. I miss them. And here's a repeat performance for the wonderful montana.
As requested:
ReplyDeleteOne of my absolute favourite songs.
A 90s fave. Original video apparently unavailable.
Lovely early Terry.
Lovely later Terry.
En español
Hi UTs--Anybody out there? Only 7:30 here. Some fine appeals to community/friendship tonight.
ReplyDeleteFrom Bitterweed we have 'day to day observations of life's minutia' which piques my interest as I live a world apart from most.
Edwin--I quite enjoy your 'shite'
Medve--Struggling with what to say about your childhood. I'll just tell you that I enjoy talking to you and I'm glad you're here. Respect and good wishes to you.
BB-- I would love to be stalked by you.Maybe a writ of habeus bacchus?
Habib, are you here?
Hi Montana-- One of mine too. Hope things are good for you in the white winter. We're getting rain of biblical measures, if there is such.(-:It is fucking pelting down.
ReplyDeleteHabib--You can't offend me, keep it coming. BTW--Ever heard of Snooky Prior? He put out some lively, pertinent and civil rights blues. Perfect for this forum, I think.
Medve
ReplyDelete"That explains a lot and also means that it is hereby prohibited for anyone to "leave" because of HER wind up"
Yep also I am glad it was on CiF now, just cause one gets to comment BTL. Just maybe in her vainglorious moment she decides to read the comments then at least she'll realize what her opinion is worth.
BB and Mschin...banned I think for a limerick i posted...LOL. Mind you I was more upset when my avatar pix kept getting rejected...hope that wasn't curatorial decision. I did email them like WilliamBap suggested but never heard back.
Well played. Here's a song back. About a woman growing tired of a man
ReplyDeleteHi Mchica--How you doin? Banned for a limerick? Get the fuck out of here! (That means "you must be joking" in the modern north american vernacular.) Seriously, I don't wonder why CiF have lost several good , cogent, enlightened posters in the last few months. Where do they go? Many of them are bright ,learned ,savvy people.
ReplyDeleteBoudican, c'est moi. Post the Snooky Prior blues, baby!
ReplyDeleteHey everybody! I'll trade my snow for your rain, Boudican.
ReplyDeleteCan't imagine what kind of limerick it would take to get a person banned... :-)
Song for Boudican, to shock. (Not really)
ReplyDeleteHabib--Would if I knew how, I'm a technically challenged middle aged cybernewbie.Anyway , you are the Dr. Johnny Fever of the graveyard shift on the UT.(DJ on a long ago sitcom in the US)
ReplyDeleteMontana--Nah, I'll take the rain, thanks. Unusual winter here, normally 8-10 feet of snow by now, but 6" total so far. Who knows?
And yes, what was this heinous limerick Mchica? Ve haff vays, so sing it, you know it will come out eventually.
It was nothing scandalous, just something silly cooked up on a boring sunday but it was aimed at the Mods...perhaps it was beneath them and they prefers odes.
ReplyDeleteHabib--Jeesus, there were some well defined superstructures in that clip! Were I not a happily cohabitating man ( my mom would say without benefit of clergy) I might pursue that band seriously.(-:
ReplyDeleteYou in the mountains, Boudican?
ReplyDeleteI think you should repost the limerick here. We won't ban you.
Mchica--Ah yes the mods, I noticed that the emperor AB was threatening moderation yesterday to those who dared to mention Israel/Palestine, yet he has told us previously that he has no control/input on such. Weak.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletemorning heyhabib, Mchica, evening Boudican, Montana.
ReplyDeleteFirst coffee, points raised while i was asleep:
Boudican wrote: Medve--Struggling with what to say about your childhood. I'll just tell you that I enjoy talking to you and I'm glad you're here. Respect and good wishes to you.
No worries. I didn't see my father at all after what i described earlier for about six years, but my grandmother, who was raising me decided i needed "a father figure" after having indoctrinated me against him. A meeting was arranged,which lead to us becoming friends remarkably quickly. The episode also made me determined, that no matter what, i would stick with any kids that i might get (which i have).
Mchica wrote:
Medve
"That explains a lot and also means that it is hereby prohibited for anyone to "leave" because of HER wind up"
Yep also I am glad it was on CiF now, just cause one gets to comment BTL. Just maybe in her vainglorious moment she decides to read the comments then at least she'll realize what her opinion is worth.
I didn't actually make it through pre-mod, although some UTers have said that my comment should have gone up.
Medve
ReplyDeleteStill the majority of comments saying that the Blairs can never be taken seriously in regards to Middle east again. Anyway I wonder if CB was approached by the Bahai community or they acquiesced to her article, cos unless you have go ahead from community leaders one can't write on their behalf, right?
Anyway I really am not buying that CB should be judged on her own merit, this has nothing to do with sexism. But in politics spouses are always used as proxies to gain entry or advantages...here in the US many cases of Corps that getting govt contracts by Senators and then you find out the spouse was on the boards.
I really like Libby Brooks article!
ReplyDeleteGood morning Medve--My dad told me that everyone has the right to their own ridiculous opinion. Still not sure that I've worked out what that means.(-:
ReplyDeleteMontana--Our village is 350' elevation, but yes we are in the 'Coast Range' mountains. The first land for the Pacific weather systems. Rainforest is prevalent, 200' tall trees not uncommon, but not as numerous with modern logging and developments.
BTW--It was Mchica's limerick.
Boudican "the emperor AB was threatening moderation yesterday to ..."
ReplyDeleteSorry for being dense but what does AB stand for?
Mchica: Points well taken.
ReplyDeleteBoudican: Love the view you sketch and i agree with greatgrandfather.
second coffee
Last song, goodnight everybody.
ReplyDeleteLadies and gentlemen, this git has left the building.
Mchica--Just read your last post, didn't know you were in the US of A. Largely agree on Cherie Blair, not like she disowned Tony's policies, or even dissented publicly, (Not likely, but others have.)and she has shared in the spoils of war, despite her neohumanitarian preachings.
ReplyDeleteEast or west coast Mchica?
Mchica--AB is Andrew Brown, pseudo-journalist, editor of CiF belief, and moderator nouveau.
ReplyDeleteI'm in the good ole south!
ReplyDeleteMedve
ReplyDeletecoffee sounds so good, keep my hands warm too. Alas it's bed time, night all.
goodnight, till next time
ReplyDeleteMchica--Oh, too bad, you do know that the left coast is best, no? (-: And I do agree with your opinion on political proxies, spousal 'benefits', and patronage. Not to say that Canada is pure either, we have some long standing political families here too. Folly (check out Medve's link and read that book if you can) marches on.
ReplyDeleteBoudican: UT jan 15 has just gone up. shall we go there?
ReplyDeleteBoudican not under yet. So true the West coast is beautiful but we got southern cooking.
ReplyDeleteMedve, with you, any time. Let's seize the the day.
ReplyDelete