tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post8556345369733129370..comments2023-05-21T15:20:58.352+01:00Comments on The Untrusted: Daily Chat 15/10/09Montana Wildhackhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11409705185204787671noreply@blogger.comBlogger138125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-21661058975554697112009-10-16T00:39:54.255+01:002009-10-16T00:39:54.255+01:00deano and scherfig - dunno whether this story pass...deano and scherfig - dunno whether this story passed you guys by but it put a whole different spin on the Papas bit of the Mamas and Papas for me, as well as Californian liberal values...<br /><br /><a href="http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2009/09/23/crimesider/entry5331282.html" rel="nofollow">ugh!</a><br /><br />Anyway, deffo off to bed now. Wrung the wine bottle and there's nowt left.<br /><br />A demain.HankScorpiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13220200282805558779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-89431313753663209722009-10-16T00:35:56.708+01:002009-10-16T00:35:56.708+01:00For your delectation...
from IceColdRage"
&q...For your delectation...<br />from IceColdRage"<br /><br />"So anyway, I must have screwed a few dozen guys before I finally got pregnant. By this stage I was in a mind to blame all of my problems on men. My life was a mess and 'some guy' had made me pregnant. Needless to say I was filled with ice cold rage.<br /><br />So, although I wasn't gay my hatred of men drove me into a relationship with an abusive lesbian."<br /><br />I'm trying to write a novel and I can't come up with stuff this good!<br />(So, yes, I will damn well steal it..)Le Dinguehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00348054404674389209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-19239633406999979322009-10-16T00:21:09.816+01:002009-10-16T00:21:09.816+01:00Scherfig - and Mama Cass to dream about - bliss.Scherfig - and Mama Cass to dream about - bliss.deano30https://www.blogger.com/profile/12637249297224887297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-13540815556115900602009-10-16T00:20:41.558+01:002009-10-16T00:20:41.558+01:00Yeh, I love that one too, Montana. It's really...Yeh, I love that one too, Montana. It's really evocative and nostalgic - "All gone to look for America..", substitute your home town or country and it still works.<br /><br />It also works on a different level for me given that I wear a gabardine suit.<br /><br />Hope tomorrow's a bittersweet day with the emphasis on the sweet, deano.<br /><br />Nite all (-:<br /><br />And sorry about the time difference as ever, MH, but I've just finished the second bottle of red and need my bed now xHankScorpiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13220200282805558779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-74213281018926136102009-10-16T00:15:03.034+01:002009-10-16T00:15:03.034+01:00Hey Montana - as an old Kerouach hippy that was a ...Hey Montana - as an old Kerouach hippy that was a great S&G track to go to bed on .deano30https://www.blogger.com/profile/12637249297224887297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-8434536931920868652009-10-16T00:13:02.308+01:002009-10-16T00:13:02.308+01:00America, feminism, socialism, oppression, protest....America, feminism, socialism, oppression, protest.<br />Liberalism? I think not.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vK7jitvJXI" rel="nofollow">goin' back to harlan</a>xxxxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12466706566688272356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-53120175614763470182009-10-16T00:06:23.839+01:002009-10-16T00:06:23.839+01:00Well I'm away to bed.
The scattering of my la...Well I'm away to bed.<br /><br />The scattering of my late beloved sister Edie's ashes tomorrow followed by a long weekend on the pop to celebrate my other brother in law's 70th birthday.<br /><br />Been a cloudy/damp day which is good for my dongle connection so I've been able to post lots today!<br /><br />Have a great week end all. Night.deano30https://www.blogger.com/profile/12637249297224887297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-60323744804449163782009-10-16T00:01:52.611+01:002009-10-16T00:01:52.611+01:00'Liberal' here is used exclusively in the ...'Liberal' here is used exclusively in the social policy context -- and American liberals are generally the identity politics arseholes that most of us here loathe. I'm very much a socialist, myself, but precious few Americans have the first fucking clue what that means. <br /><br />In 1991, when the Moderates defeated the Social Democrats in Sweden, the Des Moines Register ran an editorial about how the Swedes were rejecting the dismal, spartan world of socialism for the choice and vibrancy of capitalism. Americans simply cannot hear the word 'socialism' without seeing Soviet-era lines for toilet paper and every woman in the country wearing plain, grey shift dresses and neighbour spying on neighbour.<br /><br />And, strangely, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAoArleLZEk" rel="nofollow">this is my favourite S&G song</a>.Montana Wildhackhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11409705185204787671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-12872328916943342682009-10-15T23:57:29.921+01:002009-10-15T23:57:29.921+01:00@deano - "The predominant lean of today's...@deano - "The predominant lean of today's liberalism is to what used to be called laissez faire."<br /><br />Yes, indeed, that's why neo-liberalism is also sometimes described as classical or Manchester liberalism. The 19th century Liberals (or Whigs)believed in free trade, while the Tories believed in protectionism and tariffs. <br /><br />The great split in the Liberal Party, between Lloyd George and Asquith in the 1900s, was on precisely this issue, with Lloyd George being the social radical who recognised that something had to be done to improve the social and working conditions of the poor.<br /><br />The split led to the rise of the Labour Party, as the Liberals disintegrated and the Tories triangulated as ever and became the natural party of government.HankScorpiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13220200282805558779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-14254786493502484952009-10-15T23:56:05.554+01:002009-10-15T23:56:05.554+01:00good stuff, philipa, hank. Tip of the iceberg, as ...good stuff, philipa, hank. Tip of the iceberg, as well. Some articles on Untrusted2 out of this maybe? <br /><br />Here's one for princesscc (and everybody else)<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN3GbF9Bx6E&feature=related" rel="nofollow">california dreamin></a>xxxxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12466706566688272356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-1479846930914288522009-10-15T23:51:03.130+01:002009-10-15T23:51:03.130+01:00I'm not far from you Hank - free to be a wage ...I'm not far from you Hank - free to be a wage slave never seemed to be very free at all to me.<br /><br />Collective well being and individual freedoms always sat uncomfortably together in my bookdeano30https://www.blogger.com/profile/12637249297224887297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-34391054479746910032009-10-15T23:47:28.067+01:002009-10-15T23:47:28.067+01:00Interesting discussing tonight, happy to pick it u...Interesting discussing tonight, happy to pick it up tomorrow. And I have to say I'm with Philippa on "mearket restrictions". Fond as I am of Alexander in his smoking jacket, the barrel is close to being scraped.<br /><br />Simples.HankScorpiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13220200282805558779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-61991595166947342322009-10-15T23:40:52.953+01:002009-10-15T23:40:52.953+01:00The predominant lean of today's liberalism is ...The predominant lean of today's liberalism is to what used to be called laissez faire. Read an interesting article/post on that theme but forgot to bookmark it. Where the fuck did I read it??<br /><br />A google of Orr turns up the oddest collection of article titles - but her recent stuff in the political spectrum contains the some quite interesting observations. She is sharper than dear old Polly so I think I'll read her more often TFN.<br /><br />S&Garfunk and Homeward Bound and so many others are old favourites, which my 30+ year old kids also think are great. The bastards have my CD copies come to think of it. I am reminded I must repossess them before they become subject to the old possession is law argument.deano30https://www.blogger.com/profile/12637249297224887297noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-91863697454782365472009-10-15T23:39:20.188+01:002009-10-15T23:39:20.188+01:00Scherfig - "(whether we self-define as libera...Scherfig - "(whether we self-define as liberals or not)".<br /><br />Definitely not a liberal, me. Freedom is a lie sold to us by those who anaesthetise us with pap while robbing us blind. <br /><br />Freedom means little more than free enterprise now, just as liberalism equates to neo-liberalism.<br /><br />The cat was out of the bag when the neo-liberal free enterprise zealots got into government in the early 80s and restricted the freedom of workers to organise in trade unions.<br /><br />Freedom is deregulation, and limited government, and letting the poor and vulnerable suffer so that a tiny elite can accrue ever more power and wealth.<br /><br />The modern Western concept of freedom is a Hayekian, Friedmanite principle which was trialled in Chile from 1973 and was shown to be a wonderful success. Except for the union organisers, the local councillors and sundry other leftists who were jailed, tortured and killed. And 80% of the population who saw their living standards plummet along with their life expectancies, while the rich built gated communities and offshored their wealth.<br /><br />Fuck what Henry Porter and the rest of the Islington set think, I'd trade some of our "freedoms" in return for a bit of social justice and equality.HankScorpiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13220200282805558779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-30285658011535850622009-10-15T23:29:07.826+01:002009-10-15T23:29:07.826+01:00ay, but starting from a simplistic point doesn'...ay, but starting from a simplistic point doesn't bode well for getting to anything more complex further down the line, so we just get stuck with the 'fox news' version. <br /><br />my take is probably no more developed, really - follows the 'left' starting point, in that i do favour mearket restrictions, rejigging the tax brackets, economic controls, but with 'social liberalism', i.e. that the default position should be parity of opportunity for all, and individual choice (abortion, gay marriage etc) and that those choices should only be limited in cases of direct harm. however, particularly from a feminist perspective, i get a bit wobbly on that due to favouring 'collective' social rights over the cult of the individual. <br /><br />maybe that's because the choices i value are 'relating to the person', and i don't really include financial matters (earnings, private education, healthcare) in that. <br /><br />i think my ethos is that the individual can do what they like with themselves, but always within the context of society, so there is no unfettered right to earn / trade / what-have-you because that would be bad for society at large, whereas restricting this is not actually an infringement of the individual in a way that impacts on something that is truly valuable.<br /><br />so, as you can see, riddled with inconsistencies and totally subjective, really. maybe i should start calling myself a socialist again, but that's just so ... eighties...<br /><br />bet you're sorry you asked, now. snarf.<br /><br />night all!PhilippaBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09091980183380957529noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-58905512312389152782009-10-15T23:25:16.032+01:002009-10-15T23:25:16.032+01:00Interesting discussion re liberalism. I used to d...Interesting discussion re liberalism. I used to define myself as liberal but I think more and more I am realising that I am a socialist at heart. The more I see the rich getting richer and everyone ignoring the horrors being visited on the poorest (including supposed human rights supporters such as Liberty etc) the more I start to believe that Anne and others are right and socialism is the only answer.<br /><br />The way identity politics betrays its own repeatedly - feminists betraying the poorest women, disabled charities colluding with the government over welfare reform that will make disabled peoples lives hell, Muslim groups ignoring the poverty in their communities to hobknob with ministers. It stinks.<br /><br />Anyhoo off to bed now as shattered. Tomorrow hope to get off out with the dogs for some air. But the mist is rolling in again and I am being lulled to sleep by the distant - sinister yet erotic - sound of clogs.princesschipchopshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18202815936353393398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-68332869733039895572009-10-15T23:15:39.762+01:002009-10-15T23:15:39.762+01:00philippa, a simplistic right-left dichotomy on any...philippa, a simplistic right-left dichotomy on any definition of liberalism is a good starting point, but it's Fox News simple, and your admission that it makes no bloody sense to you should flag up that we all have different definitions. I think it could be interesting if we could all say what 'liberalism' actually means to us (whether we self-define as liberals or not). And, for the record, I don't. Not quite sure what I am.xxxxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12466706566688272356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-30996557912840332492009-10-15T23:11:16.111+01:002009-10-15T23:11:16.111+01:00Princesschipchops
Yeah..liberalism's a real k...Princesschipchops<br /><br />Yeah..liberalism's a real killer.<br /><br />From my four part list above, I probably omitted the Matt Seaton definition.<br /><br />"Idiot relativist who feels justified in holding any position at any time which keeps him looking progressive and on 'the right side'."<br /><br />The 'right side' being defined by whatever this week's dinner party demigods determine it to be. That's the problem with the left-liberal elite: an overcooked scallop or an under seasoned vinaigrette can shift the zeitgeist at the raising of a fork.<br /><br />But they all agree on one thing: criticism from the left is not to be tolerated. How can they be criticised from the left? They are the LEFT.monkeyfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04117567260726533116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-86811137849168598832009-10-15T23:06:53.106+01:002009-10-15T23:06:53.106+01:00@kiz - "being a liberal bourgeois I report it...@kiz - "being a liberal bourgeois I report it til the mods wake up...dreadful...I know.."<br /><br />Hi, kiz. Thanks for tip of the hat on the U2 piece.<br /><br />I don't think it's a question of being "a liberal bourgeois". We've had our disagreements on here about politeness, civility etc, and we're never going to agree on that I guess, given that I see the mods and Cif staff as being in a position of power over us. I still think that you'd see things a lot differently if you'd ever been banned. And if you were completely honest with yourself, you'd acknowledge that you've made comments which have breached the talk policy, and got away with it.<br /><br />Anyhoo, this is a separate issue. I'm not a free speech libertarian zealot. I think that moderation is essential at times, and I agree that the posts directed at BB the other day and the one today on Bidisha's thread should be reported. Haven't got a problem with that at all.<br /><br />It's fucking vile and offensive.<br /><br />Can I also say though that Irwin Stelzer should also have been reported to the mods, as should whichever twat at Cif decided to commission his blog?HankScorpiohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13220200282805558779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-19127315826110363672009-10-15T23:02:06.839+01:002009-10-15T23:02:06.839+01:00'... I think she's just a spoiled, egotist...'... I think she's just a spoiled, egotistic fuckwit. Am I wrong?'<br /><br />Are you wrong?<br /><br />Do bears shit in authentic Romany chamberpots decorating with whimsical rustic designs and a snip at £120 from all good design boutiques?monkeyfishhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04117567260726533116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-77189699664632899672009-10-15T22:56:23.459+01:002009-10-15T22:56:23.459+01:00Here's a random thought about liberalism. Bidi...Here's a random thought about liberalism. Bidisha - her latest blog about 'misogynism', 800+ comments. Radical lesbian feminist, Oxbridge educated, BBC radio presenter, author, journalist etc etc. Never been anywhere near the working classes, never had to worry about the rent-money or the next meal. I suppose she's a liberal? I suppose she's 'left-wing'? She has very little in common with me (or my young daughter) so I think she's just a spoiled, egotistic fuckwit. Am I wrong?xxxxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12466706566688272356noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-50568058527334536392009-10-15T22:53:39.536+01:002009-10-15T22:53:39.536+01:00Scherfig - good stance. Not brave enough myself a...Scherfig - good stance. Not brave enough myself as I am weirdly addicted but starting to feel dirty when I go over there.<br /><br />MonkeyFish - you are so right about the liberalism thing and the lack of concern about economic equality. I mean all the news about the banks today. I watched with open mouthed dismay at the fact that these banks are posting such huge profits and the bankers are all back at the trough but tons of government money is still pouring in behind the scenes through parts of the QE and other methods.<br /><br />We are seeing a proper robbing of the poor by the rich - on an astronomical scale - and nobody gives a shit. It is mind boggling.princesschipchopshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18202815936353393398noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-69314798177720137322009-10-15T22:51:23.223+01:002009-10-15T22:51:23.223+01:00Time for bed for me, people. Even my inane one-li...Time for bed for me, people. Even my inane one-liner contributions are getting to be too much for me tonight. Got a brain that feels like mash potato.<br /><br />Nighty night xxBeautifulBurnouthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02904723758901189624noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-69965803943665232212009-10-15T22:50:17.141+01:002009-10-15T22:50:17.141+01:00It's the same troll that was on the Thompson t...It's the same troll that was on the Thompson thread and who attacked BB... They just wait til the mod cover is sparse and then let rip.. Being a liberal bourgeois I report it til the mods wake up... dreadful... I know..kizbothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00860856864342657278noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-6245144120329346252009-10-15T22:48:33.817+01:002009-10-15T22:48:33.817+01:00...and i didn't mean 'reasonable' as a......and i didn't mean 'reasonable' as a compliment, there.<br /><br />scherfig - interesting re: liberalism. it's always struck me that the term is used (or claimed) in two very different, and usually contrary, ways, so we now assume:<br />Right = economic liberalism with social control<br />Left = social liberalism with economic control<br />Whereas really the right, if they're so 'free market', would be more consistent if they were social liberals as well, but that's hardly how the GOP works. And of course for them 'liberalism' is a swearword, whereas it could actually describe their ideal market system.<br /><br />Makes no bloody sense to me. so i call myself a hippy-hippy-woolly-liberal, just to make my position completely clear.PhilippaBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09091980183380957529noreply@blogger.com