tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post7045568191141519118..comments2023-05-21T15:20:58.352+01:00Comments on The Untrusted: 13/07/10Montana Wildhackhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11409705185204787671noreply@blogger.comBlogger170125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-84633038885532589032010-07-14T03:23:10.868+01:002010-07-14T03:23:10.868+01:00On a serious note:
"I do worry about those w...On a serious note:<br /><br />"I do worry about those women who may now be locked away permanently."<br /><br />They have been for centuries, not through any religious belief, but through the edicts of some men who have always wanted to control them. <br /><br />I would beg them to discard the veil, but it has to be their choice.heyhabibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02723870399254233758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-77095756040179207452010-07-14T03:13:53.504+01:002010-07-14T03:13:53.504+01:00"How such minds are to be reclaimed is the qu..."How such minds are to be reclaimed is the question. Banning the symbols won't change the minds."<br /><br />I know, Leni, they are Sunderland and Newcastle fans, after all.heyhabibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02723870399254233758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-66466300416897363182010-07-14T02:04:26.339+01:002010-07-14T02:04:26.339+01:00Morning Habib
Clearly walking around covered from...Morning Habib<br /><br />Clearly walking around covered from head to toe is nonsensical - from our pov. It makes no sense and I assume makes movement rather difficult and uncomfortable. <br /><br />The same is true of the hairshirt which was scratchy and said to harbour fleas and tickle the more delicate body parts. <br /><br />These garments are outward symbols of a mind state. How such minds are to be reclaimed is the question. Banning the symbols won't change the minds. <br /><br />RC nuns only discarded their medieval dress in the last century - able to do it only because the Pope told them they could. This enabled them to make the change - they felt that Papal authority made it right to do so. <br /><br />Secular opposition to face coverings will have the reverse effect - it will be seen as an attack to be resisted. <br /><br />I do worry about those women who may now be locked away permanently.Lenihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01755748505260253288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-79873415107330631002010-07-14T01:38:28.500+01:002010-07-14T01:38:28.500+01:00If anybody is dumb enough to wear such vile garmen...If <i>anybody</i> is dumb enough to wear such vile garments, (created by men to guarantee subservience) <i>every time</i> they go out in public, they should be allowed to do so. <br /><br />They think wearing these ridiculous garbs, symbolising adherence, will guarantee them glory at some indeterminate point in the future. I admit some find them threatening, but really, pity them, they are merely Sunderland and Newcastle fans...heyhabibhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02723870399254233758noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-21205976700935339262010-07-13T23:54:18.640+01:002010-07-13T23:54:18.640+01:00Nite Bitterweed
It,s getting like the bloody Walt...Nite Bitterweed<br /><br />It,s getting like the bloody Waltons round here!<br /><br />Nite jimbob!Nite ellymay! Nite grandma!<br /><br />Definitely off now.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11865148437450521947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-72071050468807472552010-07-13T23:52:04.243+01:002010-07-13T23:52:04.243+01:00James
Just picked up your post.Yeah it,s not a st...James<br /><br />Just picked up your post.Yeah it,s not a straightforward issue but at some stage IMO a line has to be drawn .<br /><br />NiteUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11865148437450521947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-34960289881295276852010-07-13T23:51:50.075+01:002010-07-13T23:51:50.075+01:00@Paul
The report on French on Radio Four interview...@Paul<br />The report on French on Radio Four interviewed a woman who had converted to Islam - I distinclty remember the reporter stating that out of the 2000 women using the shroud, many are indeed converts.<br /><br />I guess some people willingly become slaves to money, booze, alcohol, celebrity worship, and a whole list of other destructive crap; they then, quite often pay a cost demanded of them by their society - if they choose to unpick five hundred years of progress in human rights for the sake of some set of middle age, middle eastern stories of magic and terror it's up to them, but they are willingly sacrificing societal engagement because they think their God is better than their own neighbours. If their neighbours take that as an offensive and antisocial message tough shit really. How this actually becomes legislation says more than I can stomach about populust empty politicians just manipulating people though. But - that council in Stoke that's cancelling swimming lessons in many schools for the whole month when (some) adult Muslems are observing ramadam - it's not helping is it ? They're manipulating people just as badly, for different - but similarly arrogant and controlling, motives.<br /><br />James<br />I have a close friend in Egypt whose sister, sister in law and mothers have all started wearing headscarfs in the last ten years; all cite "personal" reasons. No coincidence that Egypt has also become a much more controlling and reactionary religious culture over the same period. My fear is they're doing it out of a desire to conform. Much more to speak about this anotjher time - my pal was receiving death threats when I was over there last December - because his client agreed that he, as her psychiatrist, should be able to see her face during clinical one hour sessions. Her husband put a death threat on him.<br /><br />The argument isn't about scarfs, it's about full-face veils and what they often enforce on the wearers - isolation and a great big sign saying "leave her alone - she's OWNED". Ghastly things really.Bitterweedhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12290137850441509784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-68602363057791917552010-07-13T23:51:37.652+01:002010-07-13T23:51:37.652+01:00"Agreed - it's not a religious requiremen..."Agreed - it's not a religious requirement but a pre Mohammed social custom. "<br /><br />Don't ignore geography. Islam started in hot desert countries. In the original context, the wearing of a veil is a perfectly rational thing, protection from the sun and sandstorms etc. As for the men- ok they didn't wear the veil, but the Saudis in particular wear those long robes.<br /><br />Similalry, Judaism and Islam both forbid consumption of pork. In hot desert countries pigs smelt very bad.<br /><br />Obviously how this bears on the modern debate I don't know. I have seen many full body veils in Glasgow, or even only partial ones that are still overly opressive.<br /><br />Different ethnicites also have different type of veils. For example, black African Muslims, Somali or Sudanese perhaps where a single veil that covers the body, going over the head with a circular hole where the entire face pops out. Although a full head to toe veil, you can see her entire face so it is not as bad.<br /><br />Also, of course there is family pressure. Call it anecodtal, but on the coach down from Glasgow yesterday, a young Muslim woman was saying goodbye to her family, wearing a headscarf, her female family members wearing headscarves. By the time we were in London she had removed it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-18936164723183159012010-07-13T23:49:27.810+01:002010-07-13T23:49:27.810+01:00I'm off too...
But, before I go, here's a...I'm off too...<br /><br />But, before I go, here's a little som'thin-som'thin for anyone doing a nightshift tonight.<br /><br /><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EsO4u46wIlk&feature=related" rel="nofollow">The Revolution will not be Televised!!</a>James Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16299357339538257569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-60435579932288815502010-07-13T23:43:11.817+01:002010-07-13T23:43:11.817+01:00Night Paul!Night Paul!James Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16299357339538257569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-80407048470458637732010-07-13T23:42:44.183+01:002010-07-13T23:42:44.183+01:00Paul,
It's a complex issue, and I'm not e...Paul,<br /><br />It's a complex issue, and I'm not even quite sure where I stand on it to be honest.<br /><br />That said, I have a friend from Egypt, who chooses to wear a headscarf, and I've spoken to her about it, literally for hours, and I can't help but admire the decision, and how she came to make it, despite being quite anti-religion/religious symbolism myself.<br /><br />I think I've mentioned it here before, but we were both in Kentucky together one summer, and at one point, we both found ourselves at the wrong end of a shotgun because of it, yet she still believed in it enough to wear it again the next day, and the one after that.<br /><br />So, as much as I'm a fan of secularity etc in general, I do think that, when someone believes in something that much, it's probably quite wrong to legislate against it, when, ultimately, it doesn't actually 'harm' anyone else.<br /><br />But, again, I appreciate that that's just one of the many, many issues involved in the whole 'debate'....James Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16299357339538257569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-35096677153836301182010-07-13T23:42:41.893+01:002010-07-13T23:42:41.893+01:00Leni
Agreed.It,s a massively contentious and divi...Leni<br /><br />Agreed.It,s a massively contentious and divisive issue.But if the choice a muslim woman has is to either cover her face or not leave the house then that IMO is a pretty dreadful choice to have in 21st Century Britain.And ,again IMO ,highlights a reluctance to face up to certain root causes which need to be vigorously challenged.<br /><br />Have to go now.Working days at the moment.<br /><br />NiteUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11865148437450521947noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-68628222264293850002010-07-13T23:32:26.389+01:002010-07-13T23:32:26.389+01:00Paul
Agreed - it's not a religious requiremen...Paul<br /><br />Agreed - it's not a religious requirement but a pre Mohammed social custom. <br /><br />There is a balance tho I think. <br /><br /> A ban could confine a woman to the house completely. If she has been coerced into wearing it she could be subjected to greater restrictions on her liberty. <br /><br />For those for whom it is a statement of identity the trauma may be less and of a different nature. <br /><br />I am not enamoured of the practice at all but it's not as simple as it seems.Lenihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01755748505260253288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-70975166437994449192010-07-13T23:11:39.744+01:002010-07-13T23:11:39.744+01:00It's certainly a distinct possibility, Law of ...It's certainly a distinct possibility, Law of unintended consequences and all that....James Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16299357339538257569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-84761152551720344842010-07-13T23:07:26.489+01:002010-07-13T23:07:26.489+01:00Anybody think that the ban on full face covering i...Anybody think that the ban on full face covering in France will prevent some Muslim women ever going out of the house again ?Lenihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01755748505260253288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-36325781337602201032010-07-13T22:49:00.425+01:002010-07-13T22:49:00.425+01:00Aye Leni,
The more I look at what passes for our ...Aye Leni,<br /><br />The more I look at what passes for our 'society' these days, the more I want to do a Henry David Thoreau and disappear from it....James Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16299357339538257569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-2115900978012245982010-07-13T22:45:10.798+01:002010-07-13T22:45:10.798+01:00Hi James
Yup - time to get out and build a sepera...Hi James<br /><br />Yup - time to get out and build a seperate society. <br /><br />I actually believe that we can live outside main society. Some could grow things - to eat and sell. Some could work or be self employed. Run our own home schools - have fun - get drunk and listen to music. Connect to net , windmill and solar panels. Doable with goodwill. <br /><br />Reduce individual costs - oh yeah!Lenihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01755748505260253288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-36080220124901403402010-07-13T22:36:34.040+01:002010-07-13T22:36:34.040+01:00Time for that UT commune now, Leni?Time for that UT commune now, Leni?James Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16299357339538257569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-42633034757754815522010-07-13T22:34:49.676+01:002010-07-13T22:34:49.676+01:00163 million cut from budget to Welsh Assembly.
I ...163 million cut from budget to Welsh Assembly.<br /><br />I will have to sell either dogge or my body to raise extra funds.Lenihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01755748505260253288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-17491416413820375612010-07-13T22:33:00.355+01:002010-07-13T22:33:00.355+01:00In old England very hard times....In old <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H3IyMnKrlk" rel="nofollow">England very hard times</a>....James Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16299357339538257569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-60685591494042408482010-07-13T22:32:49.573+01:002010-07-13T22:32:49.573+01:00Badger cull in Wales overturned.
That has cheered...Badger cull in Wales overturned.<br /><br />That has cheered me up /<br /><br />Now we need to overturn the people cull.Lenihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01755748505260253288noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-20901291808591691032010-07-13T22:21:32.134+01:002010-07-13T22:21:32.134+01:00Night Thaum
And good luck!
;0)Night <b>Thaum</b><br /><br />And good luck!<br /><br />;0)James Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16299357339538257569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-10890243411102690482010-07-13T22:20:58.309+01:002010-07-13T22:20:58.309+01:00And Bruce Springsteen!
And Kate Rusby.And Bruce Springsteen!<br /><br />And Kate Rusby.James Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16299357339538257569noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-39236670452130795382010-07-13T22:20:29.915+01:002010-07-13T22:20:29.915+01:00Too right, James ... now, I'm off to serve Mam...Too right, James ... now, I'm off to serve Mammon.<br /><br />>:-(thaumaturgehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01116351419774991352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1141707904735688626.post-72738508691578182252010-07-13T22:18:48.416+01:002010-07-13T22:18:48.416+01:00Yeah Thaum, Fast Car's pretty powerful too.
I...Yeah <b>Thaum</b>, Fast Car's pretty powerful too.<br /><br />In fact, I'm voting for Tracy as one of our official minstrels come the revolution.<br /><br />Her and Gil Scott Heron...James Dixonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16299357339538257569noreply@blogger.com